--- Log opened Mon Nov 21 00:00:08 2016
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20161121 01:23:02 * celticminstrel just happened across something interesting while looking for something completely different: https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=557351#p557351
20161121 01:25:48< DeFender1031> celticminstrel, SPF would work for that :P
20161121 01:26:06< celticminstrel> True.
20161121 01:26:32< celticminstrel> Do zombies already have that animation? I don't generally play undead or pay such close attention when the enemies are recruiting.
20161121 01:28:17< DeFender1031> No idea. I never looked that closely at any animations but my own really.
20161121 01:30:03< celticminstrel> Well, if they don't, then they should.
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20161121 01:31:40< celticminstrel> Hm, so the treehouses I have are by homunculus.
20161121 01:31:51< celticminstrel> But there's also some by lurker.
20161121 01:32:04< celticminstrel> Which kinda look better (less flashy).
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20161121 01:37:20< DeFender1031> celticminstrel, i don't see the sprites for that animation in 1.12 anyway
20161121 01:38:19< celticminstrel> That thread's old, so if it's not in 1.12 it's probably not in 1.13.
20161121 01:38:25< DeFender1031> oh
20161121 01:38:27< DeFender1031> no wait
20161121 01:38:34< DeFender1031> those sprites ARE there...
20161121 01:38:58< DeFender1031> looks like it's CROPS of the standing sprite and then a frame or two of the attack sprite
20161121 01:39:10< DeFender1031> i'll have to check the actual WML
20161121 01:41:34< DeFender1031> i don't see anything in the WML that looks like it's that
20161121 01:42:11< celticminstrel> No recruit animation?
20161121 01:42:32 * celticminstrel could check myself, but since you're already looking...
20161121 01:43:26< DeFender1031> not that I can find, unless it's buried in a macro
20161121 01:44:14< DeFender1031> a case-insensitive search for "recrui" brings up nothing in that file
20161121 01:44:52< DeFender1031> (it actually stops matching anything at recr)
20161121 01:45:02< DeFender1031> so yeah, doesn't look like it's there.
20161121 01:45:45< DeFender1031> also, the same SPF that would work for cutting out just the cork pop would make the "rumble-short.ogg" that I sent you the other day obsolete as well.
20161121 01:46:03< DeFender1031> (if we actually HAD SPFs and they weren't just a pipe dream...)
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20161121 03:07:08< celticminstrel> Well, SDL_Mixer doesn't really provide any transformations (which shouldn't be too surprising)...
20161121 03:08:57< celticminstrel> But it does seem to give access to the raw samples, so it seems to me that SPFs are a genuine possibility.
20161121 03:11:07< celticminstrel> That's for sounds though, it seems it only provides an opaque pointer for music.
20161121 03:11:25< celticminstrel> (Also I hope I'm looking at the right documentation - 2.0, not 1.2)
20161121 03:11:56< celticminstrel> (It seems to say that I'm not, but it was clearly linked from the 2.0 page, so who knows...)
20161121 03:12:18< celticminstrel> (Maybe it just didn't change that much?
20161121 03:12:19< celticminstrel> )
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20161121 03:13:25< Aginor> I don't think it changed much at all
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20161121 03:14:57< celticminstrel> I assume you'd want operations such as resample (to change the pitch), temporal stretching/squashing, cutting, etc.
20161121 03:15:26< celticminstrel> I see an "effects" thing in SDL_mixer which might be helpful for some types of operations, not sure.
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20161121 03:15:36< celticminstrel> Didn't look closely.
20161121 03:40:02< DeFender1031> why would sounds be any different than music on the technical level?
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20161121 03:45:57< celticminstrel> DeFender1031: I'm not really sure.
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20161121 03:52:01< celticminstrel> Hmm... 'git describe' implies the chasm bridge was added in 1.10, but... if that were the case, why would it be in my addon?
20161121 03:52:36< celticminstrel> (And that's at the latest, other commits that seem to deal with it are as early as 1.13.)
20161121 03:52:58< celticminstrel> Hmm, wait, this is a different cave bridge.
20161121 03:53:07< celticminstrel> Was such a thing added in mainline at some point?
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20161121 03:55:35 * celticminstrel is thoroughly confused now. Wasn't there a chasm bridge that looks like a natural stone formation...
20161121 03:55:46< celticminstrel> ...guess I need to check editor. >_>
20161121 03:57:33< celticminstrel> Okay, so I guess these files in my addon are just unused cruft that I forgot to delete...?
20161121 04:00:21< celticminstrel> Well, the custom terrain I defined is ^Bsz\, but the maps are actually using ^Bcx\, so I guess that's a yes.
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20161121 08:38:31< zookeeper> Jetrel_bot, i left you a question some 13 hours ago.
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20161121 08:39:17< Jetrel_bot> zookeeper:  ahh, hmm
20161121 08:40:51< Jetrel_bot> So basically I think palette-rotation is the devil - I think it's a technique that's really fascinating and cool to learn about, but having been someone that's done tons of work with taking sets of art and displaying it in alternate palettes, it's a colossal headache just to manage with static art
20161121 08:41:39< Jetrel_bot> It's worth it with a large body of static art to get alternate looks for the art for cheap - because that is a huge timecost savings instead of just doing entirely new art.
20161121 08:42:31< Jetrel_bot> but actual palette-cycling to do animation is fiendishly complex, and requires you to juggle "known state of pixels" across several axes.
20161121 08:43:33< zookeeper> right, so probably too difficult to do well
20161121 08:44:06< Jetrel_bot> I think the damning thing is - is it a timecost savings over just manually animating something by hand?   And ... no.   Having done both, I'd estimate the palette-cycling approach is maybe a few orders of magnitude more complex, and it also scales badly with your art - the bigger and more complex the art gets, the more mutual complexity the palette-cycling gets.
20161121 08:44:48< Jetrel_bot> It also doesn't have any "appearance" benefits - the same *exact* look (not approximate, but *exact*) can be done by just doing a pixel-art animation by hand.
20161121 08:45:12< Jetrel_bot> There's also the matter of it potentially needing special engine support.
20161121 08:45:24< Jetrel_bot> Where by potentially, I mean, definitely.
20161121 08:45:48< zookeeper> well no, i'd of course do it with ~PAL/~RC or not at all
20161121 08:45:54< Jetrel_bot> For reference, I've done something like this...   http://jetrel.wesnoth.org/Allacrost/Map-Tiles/Cave/water-edge.gif
20161121 08:46:33< Jetrel_bot> That's just hand-animated;  took me maybe 3-4 hours one evening.  Probably less than 10 frames, IIRC.
20161121 08:46:47< Jetrel_bot> (and of course it can "boomerang" half the frames to recede)
20161121 08:47:18< Jetrel_bot> zookeeper:  I mean - don't let me stop you - if you feel like doing it, it could work out just fine.  :shrugs:
20161121 08:48:48< Jetrel_bot> I'd just keep that in mind - if it's getting ugly and hard, you're not necessarily doing something wrong - I think it's usually ugly and difficult.
20161121 08:49:24< zookeeper> well if you think it'd be prohibitively difficult to do in a way that would actually look nice, then i don't think i want to spend a lot of time attempting it
20161121 08:49:59< zookeeper> just have to hack in animations some other way
20161121 08:57:52< vultraz> just.. draw them?
20161121 09:07:08< zookeeper> vultraz, don't you think it likely that i have some specific reason not to?
20161121 09:08:12< Jetrel_bot> zookeeper:  nah, I don't think it's hard to make it look nice - I think it's just hard to use that method at all
20161121 09:08:29< Jetrel_bot> once you're past the initial cusp, it'll probably be reasonably fine
20161121 09:09:46< zookeeper> right
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20161121 10:38:39< zookeeper> wesnoth.org down
20161121 10:49:29< zookeeper> seems to be back now
20161121 10:59:19< wedge009> tad_carlucci: gfgtdf: I added/updated a few things in VC14 branch but I'm not really sure what you need. I don't use the external package.
20161121 10:59:39< wedge009> Yay, wesnoth.org
20161121 10:59:59< JyrkiVesterinen> wedge009: it's Boost.Spirit that we need.
20161121 11:00:19< JyrkiVesterinen> It became a dependency when the spirit_po branch was merged.
20161121 11:00:34< JyrkiVesterinen> Can you update the VC12 branch too? I mostly use that branch.
20161121 11:00:49< wedge009> Is it only the headers that's needed?
20161121 11:01:59< JyrkiVesterinen> I think it's a header-only library. I'm not sure, though.
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20161121 11:05:19< wedge009> JyrkiVesterinen: Done.
20161121 11:05:47< JyrkiVesterinen> Thank you. :) I'll try it when I get home (about six hours from now).
20161121 11:06:06< wedge009> I didn't update SDL in VC12, but I think it's mostly incremental updates.
20161121 11:06:28< wedge009> European time zone?
20161121 11:07:02< JyrkiVesterinen> Yes. UTC+2, Finnish time.
20161121 11:07:55< JyrkiVesterinen> SDL update indeed isn't necessary right now. SDL 2.0.4 is the required version, as the INSTALL file says.
20161121 11:07:56< wedge009> Ah, very good.
20161121 11:08:01< wedge009> Oh, okay.
20161121 11:08:20< JyrkiVesterinen> (Required minimum version, that is. 2.0.5 should work too.)
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20161121 12:20:13 * vultraz wonders why he keeps running into finnish people on irc
20161121 12:20:23< vultraz> i know at least 3 
20161121 12:21:57< JyrkiVesterinen> I suspect one big reason is that we are a wealthy country. There are a lot of people with Internet connections and sufficient spare time.
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20161121 12:26:26< vultraz> Aren't most western European countries also wealthy? Including the fellow Scandinavian countries? (or is it Nordic, I always forget...)
20161121 12:27:37< JyrkiVesterinen> Yes, other Nordic countries are also wealthy.
20161121 12:27:58< JyrkiVesterinen> (Nordic = Scandinavian countries, plus Finland and Iceland.)
20161121 12:28:26< JyrkiVesterinen> I think the deal with them is that they are larger countries, as surprising as that may sound.
20161121 12:29:11< JyrkiVesterinen> Because of that, people in other Nordic countries have a lot of content on the Internet in their native languages. For example the Swedish Internet is much larger than the Finnish one.
20161121 12:29:50< JyrkiVesterinen> And, as a result, the people who want more (such as me) end up exploring the English Internet.
20161121 12:30:40< JyrkiVesterinen> (Also: we are northern Europe, not western.)
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20161121 12:50:49< vultraz> right, I meant west + north
20161121 12:50:52< vultraz> bad phrasing
20161121 12:52:23< vultraz> (heh)
20161121 12:52:28< vultraz> (west north)
20161121 12:56:27< zookeeper> well, i do think that we have a particularly large pool of introverts + a pretty long and solid irc tradition
20161121 12:57:06< JyrkiVesterinen> Don't forget that IRC was founded by a Finnish guy (Jarkko Oikarinen).
20161121 12:57:11< zookeeper> that too
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20161121 14:44:17< DeFender1031> I heard that it's considered rude in scandinavia to even speak to a stranger. Makes sense if everyone is introverted.
20161121 14:45:10< vultraz> according to 9gag countryball memes, no one in findland ever sits next to someone else on a bus
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20161121 14:46:12< celticminstrel> ...
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20161121 14:50:21< zookeeper> DeFender1031, well no it's not considered rude. many people just aren't accustomed to that so you might not get much beyond "umm... *nervously looks away*" as a response :>
20161121 14:52:14< zookeeper> vultraz, if you have a choice then yes people will consider it a bit awkward if you sit next to them. but of course that doesn't apply when you can't sit anywhere except next to someone.
20161121 14:54:34< zookeeper> would you step into a mostly empty bus and sit next to a complete stranger and start chit-chatting with them? :x weird.
20161121 14:54:59 * celticminstrel wouldn't
20161121 14:55:19< zookeeper> if someone does that then they're either drunk, senile or a foreigner :>
20161121 14:55:35< vultraz> "when you can't sit anywhere except next to someone."
20161121 14:55:43< vultraz> i am told this is a worse nightmare scenario
20161121 14:56:01< celticminstrel> Shouldn't that be "worst"
20161121 14:56:08< vultraz> typo
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20161121 15:11:33< zookeeper> vultraz, although i appreciate humorous stereotypes, calling it a worst nightmare is a bit of an exaggeration :p we have rush hour public transport too, and people don't tend to die of it.
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20161121 15:28:52 * celticminstrel suspects this page could use updating, last updated Feb 2015 https://wiki.wesnoth.org/Available_Music
20161121 15:30:05< celticminstrel> ...wait, [delay] already has a key to make it be affected by accel speed?
20161121 15:33:12< zookeeper> oh?
20161121 15:33:25< celticminstrel> According to wiki, added in 1.13.0.
20161121 15:33:38< celticminstrel> accelerate=yes
20161121 15:35:23< celticminstrel> Assuming it works, maybe it should be integrated into some of the mainline macros.
20161121 15:35:29< celticminstrel> Such as the one that makes a blinking image appear.
20161121 15:36:42< celticminstrel> HIGHLIGHT_IMAGE
20161121 15:38:16< zookeeper> yeah, definitely
20161121 15:38:35< celticminstrel> (Also assuming it hasn't already.)
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20161121 17:07:52< celticminstrel> Huh. Looks like the wiki syntax highlighting broke at some point?
20161121 17:08:30 * celticminstrel would poke shadowm about it, but he's not here.
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20161121 17:25:00< EliDupree> Why can't non-persistent sides have recall lists?
20161121 17:25:50< EliDupree> Sure, those lists wouldn't last beyond the current scenario, but it still makes sense to put a unit on one
20161121 17:26:59< EliDupree> EoHS relied on putting units on recall lists in multiplayer in 1.10, did that behavior change in 1.12?
20161121 17:29:21< JyrkiVesterinen> wedge009: Build is still failing. :(
20161121 17:29:23< JyrkiVesterinen> 1>i:\battle for wesnoth\external\include\boost\spirit\include\qi.hpp(16): fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'boost/spirit/home/qi.hpp': No such file or directory
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20161121 18:27:08< gfgtdf> matthiaskrgr: maybe you coudl investigate on http://gna.org/bugs/?25323 ? It looks like it could be casued by by an ealier meory memory corruption use after free.
20161121 18:27:36< gfgtdf> matthiaskrgr: so maybe you coudl run your debug tool on this issue?
20161121 18:28:18< celticminstrel> I thought tad was dealing with that build failure?
20161121 18:28:23< celticminstrel> Not wedge?
20161121 18:28:35< celticminstrel> Maybe something changed when I wasn't looking.
20161121 18:29:49< JyrkiVesterinen> celticminstrel: tad_carlucci can't "deal with" that problem directly because he doesn't have push access to the aquileia/external repository.
20161121 18:30:06< celticminstrel> Ah, true.
20161121 18:30:17< JyrkiVesterinen> The problem is that Boost.Spirit isn't (fully) in that repository.
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20161121 18:53:39< JyrkiVesterinen_> (...why does my router release my public IP address when I change something unrelated in its configuration?)
20161121 18:53:50< matthiaskrgr> mmhmmh
20161121 18:55:03< matthiaskrgr> from what the ticket says, I'm not very sure how to trigger the crash
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20161121 19:19:44< stikonas> JyrkiVesterinen: what software on the router?
20161121 19:20:15< JyrkiVesterinen> Manufacturer's firmware.
20161121 19:21:04< stikonas> hmm, hard to tell in that case. I had a slightly different issue with IPv6 change on reboot
20161121 19:21:39< stikonas> turns out odhcpcd in openwrt/lede emits Release IPv6 signal, but I found a config option to disable that
20161121 19:21:59< stikonas> maybe something similar happens here
20161121 19:22:15< JyrkiVesterinen> Well, it's not a big problem anyway. I don't exactly need to reconfigure often.
20161121 19:22:22< stikonas> well, still annoying
20161121 19:22:32< stikonas> you can always try LEDE is you router is supported
20161121 19:25:55< JyrkiVesterinen> Hmm. It's supported, but doesn't work well at all according to the OpenWrt wiki.
20161121 19:25:56< JyrkiVesterinen> https://dev.openwrt.org/ticket/10852#comment:49
20161121 19:27:26< gfgtdf> matthiaskrgr: from how i understood it just add a syntax erro into the wml like "#ifver <= 9" in some cfg file
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20161121 20:05:50< matthiaskrgr> well,any idea which file I can edit?
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20161121 20:26:45< gfgtdf> matthiaskrgr: hmm  the reporter mostlikeley edited something in his addon, so if you have an addon instlled i'd just put it in that adons _main.cfg file
20161121 20:37:13< zookeeper> yes yes yes yes yes yes yes. finally another little breakthrough in my macro arguments code.
20161121 20:37:32< matthiaskrgr> gfgtdf: I get some memleaks but no heap corruption
20161121 20:37:46< matthiaskrgr> ah wait
20161121 20:38:11< matthiaskrgr> ok, when starging multiplayer lobby it craqshes
20161121 20:42:06< matthiaskrgr> log attached
20161121 20:44:56< gfgtdf> matthiaskrgr: ok thx
20161121 20:46:08< matthiaskrgr> np
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20161121 22:16:22< irker825> wesnoth: ln-zookeeper wesnoth:master cbf1c50bb52b / data/core/images/portraits/merfolk/initiate.png: Added Tet's tweaked version of the Mermaid Initiate portrait https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/cbf1c50bb52bde706b7f730c2a9d1a4abe4742bd
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20161121 22:39:41< zookeeper> crud. i pulled to make that commit, and now it won't compile.
20161121 22:39:59< zookeeper> src\spirit_po/default_plural_forms_expressions.hpp(25): fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'boost/spirit/include/qi.hpp': No such file or directory
20161121 22:40:02< zookeeper> where do i get that?
20161121 22:53:00< zookeeper> or, alternatively, can i just disable that spirit_po thing whatever it is?
20161121 22:53:29< celticminstrel> Well, you could probably comment out some stuff in gettext_boost.cpp as a quickfix.
20161121 22:55:10< zookeeper> and some stuff would be..?
20161121 22:55:29< celticminstrel> Lines 301, 80-208, and 32 would probably do it.
20161121 22:56:48< zookeeper> huh, indeed. thanks.
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--- Log closed Tue Nov 22 00:00:12 2016