--- Log opened Mon Nov 07 00:00:11 2016
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20161107 09:56:23< lamefun> How do I distinguish magical metatables from non-magical metatables?
20161107 09:57:24< zookeeper> 70% of the magical ones have bugs in them
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20161107 10:12:49< lamefun> Once again I keep getting solid proofs that Lua is for aliens, it's from Mars!
20161107 10:13:44< lamefun> Because humans wouldn't make tables return nil on keys that haven't been defined...
20161107 10:13:53< lamefun> Only martians would!
20161107 10:14:15< lamefun> Because they have 100x times the memory and 100x times the brain power!
20161107 10:18:26< zookeeper> if you say so
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20161107 10:30:23< lamefun> zookeeper, http://paste.ofcode.org/33EJmbe3DyXLpsr24yB2Aar
20161107 10:30:34< lamefun> this immediately uncovered me quite a few bugs!
20161107 10:32:55< lamefun> True proof!
20161107 10:34:34< lamefun> Aliens are out there on Earth and are 100x smarter than humans!
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20161107 11:06:58< Nikitaw99> hi
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20161107 11:07:28< Nikitaw99> i am making a new battle for wesnoth campaign
20161107 11:07:45< Nikitaw99> i've already written the plot of the first few scenarios...
20161107 11:08:41< Nikitaw99> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2JPNQU4sNfobDdIWG1FVUVTS2M/view?usp=sharing
20161107 11:08:55< Nikitaw99> I am writing the prologue chapter right now, though.
20161107 11:09:29< Nikitaw99> ;p
20161107 11:14:30< Nikitaw99> I'll probably share it to the forums soon.
20161107 11:34:34< Nikitaw99> hm....
20161107 11:34:36< Nikitaw99> uh
20161107 11:35:21< Nikitaw99> how do I use trackplacer on my pc, if i have both 3.x and 2.7 python versions installed?
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20161107 16:32:10< lamefun> I can't write good code, I can only write bad, bloated code, help!
20161107 16:39:06< Gambit> you appear to know the difference
20161107 17:03:26< DeFender1031> lamefun, perhaps if you'd stop rejecting things you're not used to as "only usable by martian space aliens" and try to actually learn why they exist, what their benefits are, and how to work with them properly, you'd have more success...
20161107 17:04:03< DeFender1031> (that said though, I agree that some of these things ARE just horribly designed and implemented)
20161107 17:04:35< lamefun> I have solid proof BTW, that aliens are out there, and they are 100x smarter and have 100x more brainpower than humans.
20161107 17:04:47< lamefun> http://paste.ofcode.org/TBGQnaPRYrtTK9MDhNLNHK - immediately started catching potential bugs.
20161107 17:05:03< lamefun> Martians made Lua.
20161107 17:06:32< shadowm> Quite ironically, Lua means "moon" in portuguese.
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20161107 17:13:11< DeFender1031> lamefun, either that, or you just don't understand what "nil" is actually supposed to mean
20161107 17:17:37< lamefun> nil is a thing that makes a life of a human miserable
20161107 17:19:32< lamefun> i.e. I want to make a set of states
20161107 17:19:41< lamefun> local STATE_STUFF = 'stuff'
20161107 17:20:09< lamefun> then misspell in if x == STATE_SUTFF then ... end - the condition will fail to fire and I'll get no errors!
20161107 17:20:37< lamefun> with my namespace mod I'll get an "undefined name" error
20161107 17:21:09< celticminstrel> That'll give an error in 1.13.
20161107 17:21:14< celticminstrel> Try something like this.
20161107 17:21:29< DeFender1031> celticminstrel, 1.13 doesn't have implicit globals?
20161107 17:21:58< celticminstrel> https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/blob/master/data/lua/ilua.lua#L112
20161107 17:22:25< celticminstrel> I wouldn't say that, DeFender1031 
20161107 17:22:32< celticminstrel> Just look at the code.
20161107 17:22:51< celticminstrel> Oh wait, it kinda sounds like maybe lamefun did something like that already?
20161107 17:23:02< lamefun> http://paste.ofcode.org/TBGQnaPRYrtTK9MDhNLNHK
20161107 17:23:14< lamefun> does the exact same thing
20161107 17:23:15< celticminstrel> Right, okay.
20161107 17:23:40< celticminstrel> So basically, what you've done there is standard in 1.13 for the global namespace.
20161107 17:23:47< celticminstrel> (It can be disabled though.)
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20161107 17:27:05< lamefun> http://paste.ofcode.org/GH9LV5xpkadXzckuQ5WdrD - more of my crutches for the limited human mind (compared to the martians)
20161107 17:31:44< lamefun> I think Wesnoth should drop Lua and switch to this: https://github.com/vyp/gluon
20161107 17:32:03< lamefun> Purely functional embeddable language, written in Rust too!
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20161107 17:33:43< celticminstrel> No.
20161107 17:34:07< shadowm> I think Wesnoth should drop everything and go on vacation for a couple of years.
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20161107 21:56:30< tokage> what is the magic behind selecting teams? we tried different configruations like 3 times because it wasn't like displayed..
20161107 21:56:44< tokage> or is it possible that it selected the teams randomly?
20161107 21:56:53< celmin> What are you talking about?
20161107 21:57:06< celmin> I think teams are defined by the scenario...
20161107 21:57:53< tokage> even though I had the same team name, we weren't put in the same team..
20161107 21:58:27< celmin> You're not giving enough information.
20161107 22:00:11< DeFender1031> tokage, perhaps start at the beginning. What exactly are you trying to do, what steps did you take, what result are you expecting to see, and what result are you actually seeing?
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20161107 22:00:22< tokage> we were the same side, west west for example, but not put into the same team
20161107 22:00:47< DeFender1031> Peresenting the answers to those four questions in that order is generally the best way to get help with something
20161107 22:00:50< tokage> https://p.tokage.me/J2Z9J4.png
20161107 22:01:01< tokage> with that config. iirc
20161107 22:01:16< tokage> I had the same problems with other people the last time i played 2on2
20161107 22:02:09< tokage> maybe shuffle sides is broken with more than 2 players?
20161107 22:03:11< celmin> Why is there so much space there… o.o
20161107 22:04:03< tokage> DeFender1031: I created a game like in the screenshot, the people joined and I moved the slots so that they can be together (same team name) (our expectation), but it wasn't the case then
20161107 22:04:09< tokage> I thought what I said was clear
20161107 22:05:06< tokage> we played path of daggers if that matters
20161107 22:05:33< celmin> I wouldn't be at all surprised if shuffle sides is broken.
20161107 22:05:36< DeFender1031> it became clear as you continued to ramble semicoherently. When I made my statement, it wasn't even clear whether you were launching a game, writing a scenario, or something else entirely.
20161107 22:06:26< celmin> By the way, what exactly is shuffle sides supposed to do?
20161107 22:06:48< tokage> https://p.tokage.me/33jUEA.png https://p.tokage.me/aFTVMD.png
20161107 22:06:50< tokage> see
20161107 22:06:50< DeFender1031> i would imagine that shuffle sides would be a setting to randomize who's on whose team...
20161107 22:06:54< tokage> I'm actually red...
20161107 22:07:00< celmin> Is it just supposed to randomize which player is assigned to which [side]?
20161107 22:07:35< tokage> celmin: team 1 is a side and team 2 is the other side
20161107 22:07:50< tokage> at least that's what I expect it to do ._.
20161107 22:08:02< DeFender1031> tokage, try turning off shuffle sides?
20161107 22:08:07< celmin> That wasn't an answer to my question...
20161107 22:08:16< tokage> yeah I'll do that next time..
20161107 22:08:41< celmin> I think the intent of shuffle sides is to randomize which player is assigned to which [side], but not quite sure.
20161107 22:08:48< DeFender1031> tokage, do you know what shuffle sides is supposed to do?
20161107 22:09:00< celmin> ie it's only supposed to shuffle the controllers.
20161107 22:09:18< DeFender1031> celmin, wouldn't surprise me if that's exactly what it's doing
20161107 22:09:24< celmin> (And of course their faction/leader choices.)
20161107 22:09:27< celmin> I dunno.
20161107 22:09:42< DeFender1031> celmin, and then he's ending up as the wrong side and thinking he's on the wrong team
20161107 22:09:47< DeFender1031> maybe
20161107 22:09:58< celmin> Hmm, thinking about it, you might be right...
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20161107 22:10:05< DeFender1031> we still don't have enough context to know for sure what tokage means.
20161107 22:10:23< celmin> If I'm right about its intent, then what you see in the staging screen would not correspond to what happens in the actual game.
20161107 22:10:33< celmin> Unless side shuffling occurs before the stagine.
20161107 22:10:35< celmin> ^stagine
20161107 22:10:36< tokage> shuffle sides apparently changes teams too
20161107 22:10:38< celmin> ^staging
20161107 22:10:40< tokage> that's what I mean
20161107 22:10:52< celmin> Well, that might be intended.
20161107 22:10:56< celmin> Not sure.
20161107 22:11:00< tokage> it doesn't make sense tho
20161107 22:11:43< tokage> well if side==team... but well...
20161107 22:11:53< celmin> side is a single player
20161107 22:11:57< zookeeper> the shuffle sides option works wrong
20161107 22:11:58< celmin> team is a grouping of allied players
20161107 22:12:11< zookeeper> i don't remember the details but we discussed it recently and it was just implemented in a... bad way
20161107 22:12:11< celmin> Maybe it shuffle side should just be removed… >_>
20161107 22:12:20< celmin> ^-it +s
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20161107 22:15:06< zookeeper> so, you might want to just not use the shuffle option, see if that solves the problem
20161107 22:16:04< tokage> ya, I had that on default because that's the only option afaik that also randomizes the starting player/team
20161107 22:19:31< DeFender1031> yeah, seems like it'd be better to have separate options for "shuffle teams", "shuffle controllers", and "shuffle starting locations"
20161107 22:19:41< DeFender1031> rather than just an all-or-nothing
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20161107 22:49:01< can-ned_food> here's an incoherent thought, quoted from some Newgrounds commentor:  ‘this game is fantastic but you get bored from it so fast but still good game "never gets old"’
20161107 22:50:24< can-ned_food> sorry if i'm the only one here who is mildly amused by that.
20161107 22:51:56< can-ned_food> Anyways, i'd like to invite people to take a look at my Village Conquest mods, and offer any advice they could as to the FIXME problems.
20161107 22:52:56< can-ned_food> otherwise i've tested them rather thoroughly.
20161107 22:58:59< can-ned_food> Question:  is there any way to do a forum search for the underscore, 0x5F, which doesn't convert it to a query for 0x20?
20161107 22:59:57< celticminstrel> No idea.
20161107 23:00:49< celticminstrel> Are these mods available somewhere where I can view the code in a web browser?
20161107 23:02:07< can-ned_food> i can upload them to Dropbox.  give me a few minutes, and thank you for taking interest.
20161107 23:02:39< celticminstrel> I don't much like dropbox... but I guess I can give it a try once...
20161107 23:02:51< celticminstrel> I'm not sure it'll let me view without downloading.
20161107 23:03:02< celticminstrel> Sometimes it works for images, and sometimes it doesn't.
20161107 23:03:31< can-ned_food> if you append "&dl=0", it usually renders text within the htm
20161107 23:03:49< can-ned_food> but you've probably already done that
20161107 23:04:00< can-ned_food> pastebin?
20161107 23:04:35< celticminstrel> Whatever works, I guess? How many files is it though?
20161107 23:04:51< celticminstrel> pastebin for dozens of files would be a bit silly, I think.
20161107 23:05:06 * celticminstrel assumes you have FIXME in the comments so I can just Cmd+F.
20161107 23:09:14< can-ned_food> http://pastebin.com/TATAuNj0    http://pastebin.com/xCdWf92U
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20161107 23:10:38< can-ned_food> mostly my problem is filter_location doesn't work where I'd think it would.  also, for some reason, $unit is empty during Capture events.
20161107 23:11:26< can-ned_food> I expect you already know how to remedy those two problems …
20161107 23:13:14< celticminstrel> What is meant by "the Village assessment isn't reading the tile under the cursor"?
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20161107 23:15:30< celticminstrel> Okay, so you're saying [filter_location]owner_side=0 is not working?
20161107 23:16:09< can-ned_food> filter_location isn't returning TRUE when the cursor is right-clicked over a village with that condition, yes.
20161107 23:17:22< can-ned_food> Of course, I expect that my problem is a misapplication of [filter_location] or something.
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20161107 23:20:37< celticminstrel> Well, owner_side=0 should match tiles that are not a village, according to the wiki... probably not what you want.
20161107 23:21:15 * celticminstrel suspects there's no way to match only "gives income" tiles, but you could at least do terrain=*^V*
20161107 23:22:24< can-ned_food> oh.  man those wiki pages need some substantial rewrites.
20161107 23:23:19< celticminstrel> You could feel free to do some of that yourself. :)
20161107 23:23:24< can-ned_food> but it looks like owner_side=0 should be matching villages owned by side 0, and then every other tile that isn't a village owned by side ≠0
20161107 23:23:39< celticminstrel> Well, side 0 doesn't exist.
20161107 23:24:00< celticminstrel> Sides start from 1.
20161107 23:24:19< celticminstrel> So 0 is like a magic "no owner" value.
20161107 23:24:54< celticminstrel> I think it'd make sense for owner_side=0 to restrict you to villages automatically though... but according to the wiki that's not what it does.
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20161107 23:26:26< can-ned_food> i'll try [filter_owner] then, but I expect that [filter_location] is failing.  shucks.
20161107 23:27:03< celticminstrel> filter_owner is a SSF
20161107 23:28:20< celticminstrel> Ah I guess you know that
20161107 23:29:28< can-ned_food> yeah, i'd do it nested inside the [filter_location]
20161107 23:29:39< celticminstrel> You can't use $unit lke that.
20161107 23:29:48< celticminstrel> It's a container variable.
20161107 23:30:27< celticminstrel> $-substitution only works on scalar variables.
20161107 23:30:33< can-ned_food> ah so; i thought i tried that, but probably did something wrong.
20161107 23:30:57< can-ned_food> the SyntaxWML page wasn't clear on that.
20161107 23:31:13< celticminstrel> For container variable substitution you need [insert_tag]. Alternatively you can access a scalar attribute, eg $unit.id.
20161107 23:32:17< can-ned_food> well, that'll help with my Teamshare prompt.  Muchos gracias.
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--- Log closed Tue Nov 08 00:00:44 2016