--- Log opened Tue Nov 08 00:00:44 2016
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20161108 00:53:00 * DeFender1031 goes to test whether owner_side=0 actually doesn't limit to villages, because if not, that's terrible.
20161108 00:53:52 * celticminstrel thinks there needs to be SLF keys to test terrain properties, eg "gives_income", "gives_healing", etc.
20161108 00:54:08< DeFender1031> also, there's [store_villages] which can help with what you want
20161108 00:54:38< DeFender1031> and I THINK (based on the wiki's description) that [filter_owner][/filter_owner][or][filter_owner][not][/not][/filter_owner][/or] might also get all villages.
20161108 00:54:44< celticminstrel> Not in a [set_menu_item], unless you store them once and then use find_in or whatever.
20161108 00:54:52< DeFender1031> celticminstrel, agreed.
20161108 00:55:06< DeFender1031> celticminstrel, and also for the actuall terrain type
20161108 00:55:21< celticminstrel> What?
20161108 00:55:21< DeFender1031> not the string, but the actual type used for movement, defense, etc.
20161108 00:55:28< celticminstrel> Oh.
20161108 00:55:55< DeFender1031> something like "type=flat,sand"
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20161108 01:18:00< DeFender1031> i think that once i get set up and rewrite that string stuff, my next project will be to attempt to add missing functionality such as that
20161108 01:18:24< DeFender1031> game data that should be available to lua and wml but isn't
20161108 01:40:02< celticminstrel> DeFender1031: Should try not to clash with https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/tree/wml_tag_porting
20161108 01:40:26< celticminstrel> Looks like the branch hasn't been updated in awhile actually...
20161108 01:41:13< celticminstrel> There, that's better.
20161108 01:41:47< celticminstrel> I guess the [animate_unit] stuff is in a stash.
20161108 01:45:04< DeFender1031> huh?
20161108 01:45:22< celticminstrel> What?
20161108 01:45:56< DeFender1031> well, i'm not sure what this link is, and then i didn't follow your third and fouth lines just then
20161108 01:46:08< DeFender1031> i assume the link is some branch
20161108 01:46:16< DeFender1031> but i have no idea what it's doing
20161108 01:46:55< DeFender1031> (i still don't know github very well)
20161108 01:47:53< celticminstrel> There are several WML tags whose Lua implementation is a one-liner, not because the tag is simple, but because someone seemed to believe that moving the tag's implementation to a Lua API call counted as porting it to Lua.
20161108 01:55:08< DeFender1031> ah
20161108 01:55:39< DeFender1031> that exlains why there are several functions in lua which do verbatim the same thing as wml tags.
20161108 01:56:13< DeFender1031> (rather than having an api for them which makes more sense for lua-style usage)
20161108 02:17:09< celticminstrel> Right, and fixing that is the intent of that branch.
20161108 02:19:58< DeFender1031> fixing how? putting wmlish code back into the action tags and making a better lua-style api on which they're based?
20161108 02:20:18< celticminstrel> Pretty much.
20161108 02:20:20< DeFender1031> because if so, that sounds like the sort of thing that might interest me too
20161108 02:20:30< celticminstrel> I have a list of tags that need the treatment.
20161108 02:21:11< celticminstrel> kill, shroud, scroll...
20161108 02:21:25< celticminstrel> Possibly music, set_menu_item, time_area, replace_schedule
20161108 02:21:44< celticminstrel> I think I'm nearly finished for animate_unit
20161108 02:21:47< DeFender1031> on the other hand, i can't imagine anything i'd want to add conflicting... the stuf i'm thinking of adding is either completely new stuff or additional keys for filters. the former would just be adding functions that never existed and the latter would be in C++ IINM
20161108 02:21:58< celticminstrel> modify_side, modify_ai, and heal_unit are already done.
20161108 02:22:52< celticminstrel> Well, it'd be possible to conflict, I think - in porting [modify_side], I needed to add support for a few additional keys in the side proxy as well as functions for altering the AI.
20161108 02:23:07< DeFender1031> like i said, i want better handling of location filtering based on what's in the [terrain_type] tag beyond the string, and things like getting back time_areas and the complete TOD schedule.
20161108 02:23:32< DeFender1031> but whatever, it'll be a while until i get to any of that
20161108 02:23:45< DeFender1031> when I do, i'll be sure to collaborate with you to make sure i don't step on toes
20161108 02:46:30< DeFender1031> totally different topic: if you were playing an add-on and going about your way and then all of a sudden the game threw a deterministic logic puzzle at you instead of the weighted-random strategy battles, would you be super-annoyed that you have to use your brain, or would you think "oh, that's cool and breaks up the monotony nicely"?
20161108 02:47:19< DeFender1031> basically, i'm thinking of incorporating logic puzzles into some of my scenarios but i don't want to piss people off
20161108 02:47:41< celticminstrel> I'm not really sure...
20161108 02:48:05< DeFender1031> though, i suppose the description could include the fact that the campaign involves logic puzzles.
20161108 02:49:42< DeFender1031> I mean, i already know i'm not going to please everyone. People who hate story and just want to have endless gameplay loosely woven together are already going to be disappointed.
20161108 02:50:22< DeFender1031> eh whatever, i'm gonna go for it.
20161108 02:50:34< celticminstrel> I should work on my campaigns.
20161108 02:51:06< celticminstrel> I think I may want to scrap all the scenarios for the new campaign though...
20161108 02:51:13< DeFender1031> on that note, it'd be nice if there was a way to make it so that a certain set of castles which are non-continguous with a keep were recruitable into.
20161108 02:51:29< celticminstrel> The first one is the exact same map as the other campaign starts with.
20161108 02:51:34< DeFender1031> heh
20161108 02:51:36< celticminstrel> The second one is maybe interesting I guess.
20161108 02:51:51< celticminstrel> The third is a splotch of wood floor on water (supposed to represent a ship).
20161108 02:52:00< DeFender1031> heh
20161108 02:52:14< celticminstrel> The fourth is probably salvageable.
20161108 02:52:32< DeFender1031> there's actually a pretty good ship terrain in some add on somewhere (depending on how big you need it to be)
20161108 02:52:47< DeFender1031> let me find it...
20161108 02:53:30< DeFender1031> secrets of the ancients
20161108 02:53:45< celticminstrel> I think the idea of the third one isn't bad, but...
20161108 02:54:07< celticminstrel> Maybe I should make it a tall, narrow map and have the ship actually move... that could be cool...
20161108 02:54:36< celticminstrel> I can't remember who the enemies were. Probably naga plus sea monsters.
20161108 02:54:52< DeFender1031> i was actually thinking of something similar
20161108 02:55:16< celticminstrel> Huh? Why do I only see three scenarios here...
20161108 02:55:40< celticminstrel> Yeah, it was naga plus sea monsters. Not too interesting.
20161108 02:55:49< DeFender1031> with a ship moving past islands (represented by a set of hexes that get moved each turn along with anyone standing on them)
20161108 02:56:13< DeFender1031> and enemies boarding the ship as it passes
20161108 02:56:30< DeFender1031> though, "all flat" doesn't tend to make for a very interesting battle
20161108 02:56:36< celticminstrel> What's the swamp terrain code...
20161108 02:56:40< celticminstrel> Ss?
20161108 02:56:53< celticminstrel> Yeah okay, I guess the fourth scenario is just a map so far...
20161108 02:56:58< DeFender1031> i'd probably add things like boxes and such to provide some cover
20161108 02:57:01< DeFender1031> yeah, Ss
20161108 02:57:30< celticminstrel> You have a point. I guess boxes would behave like rubble.
20161108 02:57:39< DeFender1031> barrels too
20161108 02:57:43< celticminstrel> Which is hills defense or something, I think?
20161108 02:57:45< DeFender1031> maybe some other stuff
20161108 02:57:50< DeFender1031> hills
20161108 02:57:51< DeFender1031> yeah
20161108 02:58:27< DeFender1031> i think i might do it
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20161108 03:01:40< celticminstrel> Anyway it seems like the first scenario should be scrapped, if nothing else.
20161108 03:01:49< celticminstrel> I could make it a cutscene, I guess.
20161108 03:02:34< DeFender1031> basically, i've created everything up to a point where you get to choose from four possible scenario paths, and you have to complete all four after which they'll converge back into the same story, but you can choose the order. I'm having a difficult time deciding which scenario to work on next, given the challenges involved in each and lack of specific ideas for some, but since one of them needs takes place on or near an island, 
20161108 03:02:35< DeFender1031> i think i may do this ship idea that i had earlier that you just also came up with
20161108 03:02:57< DeFender1031> celticminstrel, i like cutscenes. i know a lot of people don't.
20161108 03:03:29< DeFender1031> aside from the short intros to playable scenarios, i've made two rather elaborate cutscenes so far
20161108 03:03:52< celticminstrel> As a scenario it's literally "cross the river and defeat the enemy" - exact same goal as the first scenario of the previous campaign.
20161108 03:03:56< DeFender1031> you should see how i've been abusing the engine to make them work...
20161108 03:03:58< celticminstrel> (You've played it IIRC?)
20161108 03:04:12< celticminstrel> I think it's less interesting though.
20161108 03:04:28< DeFender1031> i started it. TBH, it was a little weak on story for my taste, at least as far as i got.
20161108 03:04:37< celticminstrel> Ah.
20161108 03:04:59< celticminstrel> I could do something about that probably.
20161108 03:05:02< DeFender1031> (i kinda... didn't really want to tell yoou that and have been avoiding saying so...)
20161108 03:05:06< celticminstrel> (Maybe I did a little already, not sure.)
20161108 03:05:34< celticminstrel> (At one point I was going through to try and expand [story] stuff at least...)
20161108 03:05:37< DeFender1031> i did notice a strange bug with the potion in the second scenario though
20161108 03:05:41< celticminstrel> (And possibly some dialog.)
20161108 03:05:49< celticminstrel> Oh?
20161108 03:06:25< DeFender1031> i don't recall exactly what it was... it was something about how it does something different than the dialogue implies and also has more uses than it should.
20161108 03:06:30< celticminstrel> (No idea if I released it.)
20161108 03:06:37< celticminstrel> Which potion?
20161108 03:06:42< celticminstrel> Haste or healing?
20161108 03:06:54< DeFender1031> let me check, hang on
20161108 03:07:00< celticminstrel> The number of uses is pretty large...
20161108 03:07:28< celticminstrel> I think I made it really large though because it's one use per unit and you might want to use it on several units... but maybe it's too many, I dunno.
20161108 03:07:46< DeFender1031> oh, i forgot, i played that on my laptop. gotta get that out to check
20161108 03:07:57< DeFender1031> gimme a sec
20161108 03:08:57< DeFender1031> and yeah, i think the dialogue said that it was a healing potion but then it was actually haste.
20161108 03:09:24< DeFender1031> but let me confirm
20161108 03:09:41< DeFender1031> after windows finishes intalling updatesdamnyouwindows!
20161108 03:10:10< celticminstrel> It's supposed to be both.
20161108 03:10:28< celticminstrel> Ah, I see, the dialog doesn't mention the haste potions.
20161108 03:10:33< celticminstrel> ^dialogue
20161108 03:10:39< DeFender1031> what do you mean it's supposed to be both?
20161108 03:10:44< DeFender1031> the same potion does both?
20161108 03:10:47< celticminstrel> Healing isn't shown in the menu unless the unit actually needs healing.
20161108 03:10:58< celticminstrel> No, you get some healing potions and some haste potions.
20161108 03:11:07< DeFender1031> hmm
20161108 03:13:35< DeFender1031> aaaaaaaaaaand whatever windows was doing is now stuck at 83% and the mouse cursor, though spinning, is not actually responding to mouse input.
20161108 03:13:51< DeFender1031> God I hate windows so much!
20161108 03:15:25< DeFender1031> "Failure configuring Windows updates... Reverting changes..." WTF?!
20161108 03:15:33< celticminstrel> o.o
20161108 03:15:37< DeFender1031> "Shutting Down"!!!!!!!!!!!
20161108 03:15:41< celticminstrel> ...
20161108 03:16:09< celticminstrel> Well, I fixed the dialogue not mentioning haste potions just now,
20161108 03:16:32< DeFender1031> and it restarted, and it attempting to apply the updates again.
20161108 03:16:53< DeFender1031> if this gets stuck in an infinite loop, i'm going to be pissed.
20161108 03:17:22< DeFender1031> (especially since every point in this process warns me not to turn off the computer.)
20161108 03:17:32< DeFender1031> sigh...
20161108 03:18:00< DeFender1031> anyway, what i'm understanding from you is that the same pickup is supposed to give both healing and haste potions?
20161108 03:18:08< celticminstrel> Yes.
20161108 03:18:19< DeFender1031> and that the dialogue was forgetting to mention the haste?
20161108 03:18:23< celticminstrel> Yeah.
20161108 03:18:28< DeFender1031> okay
20161108 03:18:50< DeFender1031> ah, startup! finally!
20161108 03:18:50< celticminstrel> Healing only appears when you right-click an injured unit. Haste also doesn't appear if the unit you right-click is already hasted.
20161108 03:19:04< DeFender1031> right, that latter point i realized
20161108 03:21:13< celticminstrel> Looks like my story/dialogue work is as yet unreleased.
20161108 03:21:13< DeFender1031> though from a UX perspective, it might be less confusing if it always showed both and then if you tried to use it, gave some message from the unit saying that they can't use it and why... "I'm fit as a fiddle!" "I don't think I can go much faster."
20161108 03:21:23< celticminstrel> I suppose...
20161108 03:21:40< celticminstrel> I could certainly do that...
20161108 03:21:48< celticminstrel> It wouldn't be hard.
20161108 03:22:03< celticminstrel> I'd still only show them when you right-click a side 1 unit though.
20161108 03:22:07< DeFender1031> probably also [allow_undo] if there is such a message.
20161108 03:22:17< DeFender1031> of course.
20161108 03:22:20< celticminstrel> It probably doesn't allow undo at all right now.
20161108 03:22:28< celticminstrel> Oh, right, if nothing happened it should allow undo.
20161108 03:22:32< DeFender1031> well, it can't if you change game data
20161108 03:22:35< DeFender1031> right
20161108 03:22:37< celticminstrel> Right.
20161108 03:22:38< DeFender1031> that's what i was saying
20161108 03:23:13< celticminstrel> Looks like at least one new graphic is also unreleased...
20161108 03:23:28< DeFender1031> hmm... this is odd... i don't seem to have autosaves on lappy either. I have the scenario beginning save, but nothing past that. I was sure that I played through several turns of this scenario though.
20161108 03:23:33< celticminstrel> Actually there seems to be a lot of stuff unreleased...
20161108 03:23:46< celticminstrel> Assuming the last release is the latest tag.
20161108 03:23:53< celticminstrel> Which is probably a good assumption.
20161108 03:24:59< DeFender1031> ah, that's what it was
20161108 03:25:15< DeFender1031> in addition to not mentioning haste, there's a confusing message about how you can only use it once
20161108 03:25:30< celticminstrel> About a screen and a half of unreleased commits from "git log --oneline 1.3.5..HEAD".
20161108 03:25:33< DeFender1031> which i now realize refers to once-per-unit
20161108 03:25:41< celticminstrel> Once per unit per scenario.
20161108 03:25:44< DeFender1031> (though I assume that applies only to haste, not healing)
20161108 03:26:06< celticminstrel> Oh, yeah, of course.
20161108 03:26:11< celticminstrel> I don't see where it says that though...
20161108 03:26:14< DeFender1031> it also says "right-click anywhere" rather than "right-click on one of your units"
20161108 03:26:48< DeFender1031> "Note: To use a potion, right-click anywhere and select the appropriate option. However, you can only use it once."
20161108 03:27:04< celticminstrel> I see. Looks like I already fixed that.
20161108 03:27:08< celticminstrel> "Note: To use a potion, right-click on any unit and select the appropriate option."
20161108 03:27:13< celticminstrel> That's what it says now.
20161108 03:27:14< DeFender1031> okay then
20161108 03:27:31< DeFender1031> needless to say, i was very confused when i tried to play this
20161108 03:27:45< celticminstrel> Was it just the potions that were confusing?
20161108 03:28:48< DeFender1031> there was also a berzerker rat that seemed to disappear somehow depending on whether i moved to a certain spot on a certain turn or waited until the next
20161108 03:29:07< celticminstrel> ...that's quite weird.
20161108 03:29:22< DeFender1031> the one at 22,11 apparently
20161108 03:29:41< celticminstrel> The secret place?
20161108 03:29:46< DeFender1031> yeah
20161108 03:30:42< DeFender1031> then again, i may just be remembering incorrectly, and it may have been that it went for my party in the main area if i didn't move the unit that got the potions... i may not have known that that spot had two exits.
20161108 03:30:57< celticminstrel> I suppose that'd be a possibility.
20161108 03:31:13< celticminstrel> I think I saw it do that one time actually.
20161108 03:31:41< DeFender1031> yeah, okay, i have some damaged units here and the healing potion is still not showing up
20161108 03:32:08< celticminstrel> So far it seems that I have rewritten the storyscreens and rehauled dialogue for the first three scenarios.
20161108 03:32:20< celticminstrel> Well that's not good.
20161108 03:32:23< DeFender1031> do they have to be damaged by over a certain amount for it to show up?
20161108 03:32:46< celticminstrel> [not][filter_wml]hitpoints=$this_unit.max_hitpoints
20161108 03:32:50< celticminstrel> So I guess not?
20161108 03:33:12< DeFender1031> hmm... inspect shows the healing_potion variable as empty
20161108 03:33:20< celticminstrel> Oh.
20161108 03:33:38< celticminstrel> How would that happen...
20161108 03:33:44< DeFender1031> no idea
20161108 03:33:52< DeFender1031> just telling you what i'm seeing
20161108 03:34:38< celticminstrel> I assume you definitely did get the potions already.
20161108 03:35:32< DeFender1031> as for haste 150 hastes which allow one per scenario seems awfully high for a campaign that only has 9 scenarios, one of which has already been completed... that means that you can haste 16 units per scenario and still have a few hastes left over
20161108 03:35:35< DeFender1031> well, i
20161108 03:35:44< DeFender1031> 'm looking at the haste one right now, so yes.
20161108 03:36:12< celticminstrel> It's 100 on normal and 90 on hard, but I see your point.
20161108 03:36:12< DeFender1031> before getting the potions, those variables don't exist at all
20161108 03:36:16< DeFender1031> ah
20161108 03:36:30< celticminstrel> Maybe it's still a bit much.
20161108 03:36:48< DeFender1031> didn't think about that... of course you'd have a different number per difficulty
20161108 03:36:57< DeFender1031> i dunno
20161108 03:37:04< DeFender1031> how many heals am i SUPPOSED to get?
20161108 03:37:12< celticminstrel> 92
20161108 03:37:17< celticminstrel> Apparentlyh
20161108 03:37:18< DeFender1031> hmm
20161108 03:37:44< celticminstrel> Seems surprisingly low compared to the hastes. I dunno where I got any of these numbers from.
20161108 03:38:05< DeFender1031> heh
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20161108 03:45:38< DeFender1031> honestly, the whole pickup seems pretty overpowered. Seems like if the game is balanced to be challenging with it then it'll be impossible if you miss it, and that if it's balanced without it, it'll be a joke with it.
20161108 03:46:44< DeFender1031> I feel like we "know" each other well enough at this point for me to be able to give you some honest constructive criticism without hurting your feelings. Didn't feel like that back when I actually played it.
20161108 03:47:03< DeFender1031> (And if I AM hurting your feelings, I apologize, it's not my intention.)
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20161108 03:50:09< celticminstrel> I might've boosted the haste counts because several scenarios have a lot of poor terrain.
20161108 03:50:33< celticminstrel> You definitely have a point regarding the difference between getting it and missing it (I think someone else also pointed that out).
20161108 03:50:51< celticminstrel> I don't think I used it much when testing (though I did get it).
20161108 03:51:15< DeFender1031> hmm
20161108 03:51:28< celticminstrel> Though I don't remember very clearly now.
20161108 03:51:54< DeFender1031> might be better to have more pickups, each with fewer uses, so that if you miss one, there are still others.
20161108 03:52:06< celticminstrel> That does seem like a reasonable idea.
20161108 03:52:31< celticminstrel> I could move the [set_menu_item] to prestart and just set_variable whenever you get some.
20161108 03:52:38< celticminstrel> (prestart in scenario 2)
20161108 03:53:21< DeFender1031> right. add 5 to the count when you get this pickup, add 10 when you get that one, etc.
20161108 03:53:23< celticminstrel> Oh, I'd have to still call [set_menu_item] when you get some to update the "remaining doses" indicator, but that's minor.
20161108 03:53:36< celticminstrel> It's just the same as the call I make when you use one.
20161108 03:53:43< DeFender1031> right
20161108 03:53:58< celticminstrel> (I guess reusing an existing menuitem ID updates rather than replacing.)
20161108 03:54:46< DeFender1031> seems that way
20161108 03:58:19 * celticminstrel forgets if I need the $ for {VARIABLE_OP}...
20161108 03:58:30< DeFender1031> i think not
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20161108 04:07:11 * celticminstrel hopes {POTION_INFO_{TYPE}} will wotk...
20161108 04:07:26< DeFender1031> that's valid macro code
20161108 04:07:46< DeFender1031> i use it in a few places, and core even uses it in one place
20161108 04:14:38< celticminstrel> So I have it factored out to be useable elsewhere, without altering the current effect. Let's see if it works...
20161108 04:17:12< celticminstrel> Whoa, a poisoned goblin is almost invisible on forest... o.o
20161108 04:19:51< DeFender1031> hahahaha
20161108 04:23:12< celticminstrel> The various things they say when you capture a village really need work...
20161108 04:27:13< celticminstrel> The grey overlay is loyal, not hero, right...?
20161108 04:27:29< DeFender1031> the bronze is loyal
20161108 04:27:38< DeFender1031> gray is non-recruiting hero
20161108 04:27:40< celticminstrel> Oh okay. Then this is correct I guess.
20161108 04:27:55< DeFender1031> (meaning, you lose if they die)
20161108 04:28:00< celticminstrel> Right.
20161108 04:39:52< celticminstrel> Seems like it doesn't work. :/
20161108 04:40:04< DeFender1031> what doesn't?
20161108 04:40:36< celticminstrel> Hmm, the variables are empty somehow...
20161108 04:42:19 * celticminstrel is testing a macroized version of the potions.
20161108 04:44:14< DeFender1031> well one of them was empty when i tested what you already had
20161108 04:46:00< celticminstrel> So you said, yeah...
20161108 04:46:05< celticminstrel> The question is why...
20161108 04:46:41< celticminstrel> There's also another missing variable which leads me to suspect the "give" code is somehow not executing at all (possibly erroring, though I don't see any errors in the chat).
20161108 04:46:47< DeFender1031> i've found that the most common source of variables containing the wrong values is either using $ when you shouldn't or not using it when you should.
20161108 04:47:31< celticminstrel> Oh, I see one problem.
20161108 04:47:38< celticminstrel> I used VARIABLE_OP instead of VARIABLE_CONDITIONAL
20161108 04:48:30< celticminstrel> Though that doesn't really explain the emptiness of the all-important variables.
20161108 04:49:06< DeFender1031> want me to take a look?
20161108 04:50:01< celticminstrel> Sure.
20161108 04:50:23< celticminstrel> I'll push it to github and force-push once it's fixed up. >_>
20161108 04:51:07-!- jemadux [~jemadux@unaffiliated/jemadux] has joined #wesnoth
20161108 04:52:46< celticminstrel> https://github.com/CelticMinstrel/DruidSiege/commit/71a8b3dcf72077e816d017007f8be0fe90b67e8d
20161108 04:55:05< DeFender1031> is that [else] on line 36 supposed to be a [then]?
20161108 04:55:38< celticminstrel> No, it's supposed to be an [else]. I did that because I wasn't sure if boolean_equals=no would be true when the variable is unset.
20161108 04:55:46< DeFender1031> ah
20161108 04:55:50< DeFender1031> interesting
20161108 04:56:00< DeFender1031> also, give should probably add, not just set
20161108 04:56:00< celticminstrel> I don't like it though.
20161108 04:56:06< celticminstrel> Good point.
20161108 04:56:28< DeFender1031> though that's clearly not the source of the current problem
20161108 04:56:35< celticminstrel> So basically replace amount with add.
20161108 04:56:54< celticminstrel> But yeah, that's not the source of the current problem.
20161108 04:57:35 * celticminstrel also adds {VARAIBLE *_potion 0} to SET_POTION_MENUS
20161108 04:57:42< celticminstrel> With the correct spelling though.
20161108 04:58:33< DeFender1031> makes sense, though IIRC, using mathematical ops on an empty variable will treat it as 0 anyway
20161108 04:58:49< DeFender1031> still, best be explicit about your instantiations
20161108 04:58:51< celticminstrel> Yeah, I suppose that's likely.
20161108 04:58:54< celticminstrel> But yeah.
20161108 04:59:25< DeFender1031> wait a minute
20161108 04:59:29< DeFender1031> "amount"
20161108 04:59:32< DeFender1031> that's not correct
20161108 04:59:38< DeFender1031> that should have been "value"
20161108 04:59:52< DeFender1031> you'll notice in the pre-change, haste uses value, but health uses amount
20161108 05:00:07< DeFender1031> amount isn't actually a key of [set_variable]
20161108 05:00:37< DeFender1031> so changing it to add actually WILL fix the current issue.
20161108 05:00:52< celticminstrel> Oh, that's probably why the healing potions weren't working before, too.
20161108 05:00:59< DeFender1031> yeah, that's what i just said
20161108 05:01:05< DeFender1031> or implied anyway
20161108 05:01:10< celticminstrel> Oh yeah you did.
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20161108 05:04:32< DeFender1031> I assume it's working now?
20161108 05:06:51< celticminstrel> Yup.
20161108 05:07:13< DeFender1031> excellent
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20161108 15:23:14< NeaN> Hi, is there some place where i can find the map of wesnoth in a higher resolution than the on in the wiki?
20161108 15:24:48< zookeeper> which map?
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20161108 15:28:24< zookeeper> if it's a 1280x960 image then no, that's the highest resolution available.
20161108 15:29:22< zookeeper> but you can of course get it without the background if that helps. and i'd imagine it upscales pretty nicely, especially with little extra work.
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20161108 16:21:13< NeaN> zookeeper: i meant http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/*checkout*/wesnoth/trunk/data/core/images/maps/wesnoth.png that map
20161108 16:22:43< zookeeper> are you sure you want that old-style map?
20161108 16:23:06< zookeeper> anyway, no there isn't a higher-res version of that either
20161108 16:23:11< NeaN> Is there a newer one
20161108 16:23:14< NeaN> ?
20161108 16:23:35< NeaN> Can you link it?
20161108 16:23:41< zookeeper> https://wiki.wesnoth.org/Play
20161108 16:24:22< NeaN> zookeeper: ahh that one. i would love that one, but without the background
20161108 16:24:29< NeaN> without the the table
20161108 16:24:37< zookeeper> what version of wesnoth do you even have?
20161108 16:25:07< NeaN> 1.12.6
20161108 16:25:21< NeaN> i want to hang it on my wall, thats why i want the map in high res
20161108 16:25:30< zookeeper> well then you see that one every time you launch the game, no? :p
20161108 16:25:42< zookeeper> it's in data/core/images/maps/
20161108 16:26:58< zookeeper> if you _really_ want a printable version, i guess i could make one without the perspective distortion and all that
20161108 16:28:14< NeaN> zookeeper: yes i do.^^ but the table was "in the way"
20161108 16:28:31< NeaN> That would be awesome :D
20161108 16:29:32< zookeeper> i wonder if it should include the paper folds or not...
20161108 16:31:13< NeaN> without would be nicer, if its possible
20161108 16:31:25-!- ncms [and@2a02:a312:c101:f800:8c63:125f:3fe4:e2e0] has joined #wesnoth
20161108 16:31:37< zookeeper> anyway, i can certainly make a "flat" version of the map and try to upscale it in a nice way, but not literally right now
20161108 16:32:29< NeaN> zookeeper: That sounds pretty awesome. :)
20161108 16:32:31< NeaN> yeah sure.
20161108 16:32:43< NeaN> you can pm me in the Forum if you want my name is Elouin there
20161108 16:33:18< zookeeper> well, just keep asking me daily here
20161108 16:33:33< zookeeper> it's a pretty quick piece of work but can't do it right now
20161108 16:33:55< NeaN> zookeeper: okay. :)
20161108 16:34:37< NeaN> thx
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20161108 18:14:32< lamefun> In [teleport]: "x,y: the position to teleport to. If that position is not empty, some other location will be chosen."
20161108 18:14:39< lamefun> will that be the closest usable position?
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20161108 18:17:09< zookeeper> yes
20161108 18:19:43< DeFender1031> i'm going to update the wiki to reflect that. "some other location will be chosen" makes it sound like it'll randomly send the unit anywhere.
20161108 18:21:42< DeFender1031> done
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20161108 18:26:26< lamefun> Is there [teleport] but with location filter, where you can specify which locations are unusable?
20161108 18:27:42< celticminstrel> What?
20161108 18:28:42< zookeeper> naturally, there isn't
20161108 18:30:17-!- Appleman1234 [~Appleman1@KD106161202234.au-net.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
20161108 18:30:36< celticminstrel> Well, you could store locations and select a random one...
20161108 18:31:05< celticminstrel> If you want the player to choose where to teleport, you probably want [tunnel].
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20161108 18:31:54< Sachiel-sama> hi ppl
20161108 18:34:25< Sachiel-sama> can i somewhere download a old version of "Legend of Wesmere" campaign? At 2012 it was just an addon
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20161108 18:48:34< lamefun> If I remove a unit and then put a unit with the same cfg as the old one, will my units from wesnoth.get_unit() that referenced the old unit still stay valid?
20161108 18:49:20< lamefun> does that "underlying_id" thing carry over?
20161108 18:57:29< celticminstrel> Not sure.
20161108 18:57:47< celticminstrel> If you're creating a new unit, it probably doesn't.
20161108 18:58:02< celticminstrel> I guess unstore is essentially creating a new unit, too...
20161108 18:59:21< celticminstrel> Extract+put would preserve references though.
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20161108 19:50:05< m_> Ghast:
20161108 19:50:06< m_> Unlike their lesser cousins, ghouls and necrophages, ghasts are not patient enough to wait for their victim to die from poison before consuming the body. They attack directly with their enormous mouths, trying to rip the flesh straight from their foes. Once their enemy is defeated, they eat the rest of the body
20161108 19:50:13< m_> Then give him drains
20161108 19:50:17< m_> or if not
20161108 19:50:33< m_> don't say in his lore he eats his prays alive
20161108 19:59:07< ancestral> m_: Drains is a little different from eating a corpse
20161108 19:59:17< ancestral> Humans don’t drain from animals
20161108 19:59:22< ancestral> They eat animals
20161108 20:02:34< DeFender1031> yeah, i don't see that as a contradiction
20161108 20:08:27< lamefun> Is unit.__cfg cached between uses?
20161108 20:09:11< lamefun> Because I tried to remove my use of unit_ids and simply pass around the result of wesnoth.get_unit()
20161108 20:09:23< lamefun> Now my sidebar doesn't update!
20161108 20:09:38< celticminstrel> I don't think it's cached...
20161108 20:09:52< lamefun> I.e. I've added a counter of how many times it's been updated, the unit info does not update, the counter does.
20161108 20:10:14< celticminstrel> How many times what's been updated?
20161108 20:10:21< celticminstrel> unit.__cfg should be considered read-only.
20161108 20:10:41< celticminstrel> It's not read-only, but changes to it don't propagate to the unit.
20161108 20:13:23< DeFender1031> celticminstrel, pretty sure it IS readonly... pretty sure you get an error if you try to set a member of a vconfig saying that you're trying to index-assign a userdata with no assignment operator
20161108 20:13:32< DeFender1031> (at least in 1.12)
20161108 20:13:48< celticminstrel> I thought it was a regular config.
20161108 20:13:49< lamefun> I use extract and then immediate put for all my modifications
20161108 20:14:21< celticminstrel> lamefun: What are you modifying?
20161108 20:15:32< lamefun> I used to do this: http://paste.ofcode.org/QFa7ejg2BqwmKKecnsUsqn
20161108 20:15:43< lamefun> now I do the same thing, but I removed the use of unit_id's
20161108 20:15:51< lamefun> Now the shop is super-broken...
20161108 20:16:17< lamefun> I mean, I buy something, and the sidebar doesn't update... I exit the shop and it's there.
20161108 20:16:56< lamefun> Can I have many proxy units pointing to the same units, and still work throughout endless put_units, extract_units?
20161108 20:16:59< DeFender1031> celticminstrel, pretty sure it's a vconfig, but i could be wrong.
20161108 20:18:57< celticminstrel> lamefun: That function looks like it should work.
20161108 20:19:15< DeFender1031> i also tend to avoid the direct unit functions like the plague, using them only for reading a cfg and using that with unstore and the like, since they don't play nicely at all with wml store and unstore
20161108 20:19:17< celticminstrel> What do you mean by removing the use of unit IDs?
20161108 20:20:12< DeFender1031> keeping direct handles to units gets messy when the "standard" way of working with units is generally to destroy an old handle and create a new one when modifying.
20161108 20:20:20< lamefun> celticminstrel, http://paste.ofcode.org/365v6vAmuM5zs9VWMwmp9hp
20161108 20:20:53< celticminstrel> Okay, both of those are basically a store-unstore sequence.
20161108 20:21:15< lamefun> Before, I passed around unit ids and created actual unit objects for very short amounts of time
20161108 20:21:22< celticminstrel> Note that the put_unit call is creating a new unit, which means that the unit you passed into the function is now no longer on the map.
20161108 20:21:32< celticminstrel> ie, unit.valid == "private" IIRC
20161108 20:21:33< lamefun> basically I tried to stop using unit objects every time I modified that unit
20161108 20:21:50< lamefun> so I was right using unit_ids?
20161108 20:21:56-!- m_ [~m@bje97.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20161108 20:22:24< celticminstrel> Well, the store-unstore cycle does not preserve unit identity, so if you require __cfg to perform your modifications, then you probably do need to use unit_ids.
20161108 20:24:22< DeFender1031> honestly, it's mind-boggling to me that A: the system does not tie unit ids to the internal ids and B: actually allows multiple units to exist with the same id. a properly-designed system would tie the ids together and then any extraction, removal, modification, and re-creation would replace any existing unit with that id with a new one.
20161108 20:24:48< lamefun> http://paste.ofcode.org/yjruPVrTrrChSH3aUZtzGY
20161108 20:25:00< lamefun> I require this, I want people to be able to sell items...
20161108 20:25:11< DeFender1031> (and unit handles grabbed before a store/unstore would remain up-to-date with the new data afterward)
20161108 20:25:50< lamefun> It's made by space aliens from Mars, don't think about it...
20161108 20:26:13< DeFender1031> lamefun, enough already.
20161108 20:26:29< celticminstrel> DeFender1031: Currently unit identity within the proxy is by address of the unit object.
20161108 20:26:47< celticminstrel> So with that, re-creation can never preserve unit identity.
20161108 20:27:05< lamefun> ...
20161108 20:27:19< celticminstrel> There's also the underlying_id which is an integer...
20161108 20:27:22< lamefun> What's the point then? Can't edit max health, many other stuff, etc...
20161108 20:27:42< celticminstrel> lamefun: Well, anything you change in Lua affects the unit directly, except for __cfg.
20161108 20:27:51< DeFender1031> celticminstrel, i don't care if identity is by the shape of your mashed potatoes, if it doesn't align with something that's for all intents and purposes supposed to act as a unique id for the unit and stay consistent with updates to stuff under that id, it's not properly implemented.
20161108 20:28:21 * celticminstrel has no idea if there's a good reason for having the underlying_id.
20161108 20:31:02< DeFender1031> basically, if it were me, i'd implement the unit collection in C++ as a map of string keys to unit objects, with the keys being the unit id. then in lua, any change to a unit would update that object, except if the id itself were changed, in which case it would update or add the unit under the new id. In wml, any unstore or new unit creation would check the id and replace the existing unit under that id if there is one. this way 
20161108 20:31:03< DeFender1031> everything would always be synchronized, there wouldn't be the possibility of accidentally duplicating a unit that sometimes happens, and it would be a lot more straightforward to work with
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20161108 20:31:39< DeFender1031> unfortunately, such an architectural change would probably require a massive refactoring of a large proportion of the game engine.
20161108 20:32:01< celticminstrel> Currently the unit map is indexed by either unit location or underlying_id (an integer).
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20161108 20:32:20< DeFender1031> right. that's absolutely terrible.
20161108 20:32:22< celticminstrel> Recall list units are excluded from the unit map.
20161108 20:32:29< DeFender1031> also terrible
20161108 20:32:33< celticminstrel> They're stored in a separate list in each team.
20161108 20:32:42< celticminstrel> team, side, whatever
20161108 20:32:48< DeFender1031> in my architecture, there'd be a separate location-to-id map.
20161108 20:34:14< DeFender1031> so to get a particular unit at a particular location you'd do something like "units[unit_ids_by_location[location(x, y)]]"
20161108 20:34:46< DeFender1031> (obviously with whatever handling is appropriate to the particular case to handle "there's no unit there")
20161108 20:34:46< celticminstrel> Well, that's probably what it's doing internally (except it's location-to-underlying-id instead of location-to-id).
20161108 20:35:03< DeFender1031> right.
20161108 20:35:39< DeFender1031> but that leads to desynchs of data that should actually be referring to the same entity
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20161108 20:38:26< celticminstrel> Yeah.
20161108 20:40:28< DeFender1031> and there's also no reason to use a different id internally than the one being worked with to manipulate the unit
20161108 20:40:47< DeFender1031> and there's CERTAINLY no reason to EVER allow the id being used to manipulate the unit to exist more than once .
20161108 20:43:40< DeFender1031> basically, what should be one, single, uniform id for indexing a unit is not even forced to be unique, and what actually IS used to index the unit depends on context, being one of three or four DIFFERENT methods which don't necessarily align with each other
20161108 20:46:31< celticminstrel> There's also the thing about special underlying_id values used when the unit is thought to be temporary, or for fake units.
20161108 20:47:05< celticminstrel> Supposedly to avoid out-of-sync errors in the random generator state.
20161108 20:47:08< DeFender1031> wait... there's... a temporary... huh?
20161108 20:48:04< celticminstrel> Normally underlying_ids are assigned incrementally from 1 upwards, but in certain situations they're instead assigned much larger values generated from a separate, unsynced random generator, or something. I think gfgtdf could tell you more on this.
20161108 20:50:24< DeFender1031> how odd.
20161108 20:50:59< celticminstrel> As I said, I think it's to avoid the random generators getting out-of-sync.
20161108 20:51:03< DeFender1031> i've also noticed that the automatic ids generated by wml use the underlying id as part of their way to ensure uniqueness
20161108 20:51:10< celticminstrel> Yes, they do.
20161108 20:51:37< DeFender1031> right, but it sounds like if IDs were handled properly, that workaround might not even be necessary
20161108 20:51:54< celticminstrel> Maybe.
20161108 20:52:11< celticminstrel> Partly it's necessary because underlying_ids are assigned sequentially, I think...
20161108 20:53:31< DeFender1031> further to what i said above about how i think would make sense to structure it, i'd also make it that instead of adding on all sorts of extra type information, the automatically generated ids would simply be numeric in nature. that would be documented and content creators would know not to screw with numeric ids. and the increment would only take place if a [unit] tag without an explicit id were encountered.
20161108 20:54:07< DeFender1031> celticminstrel, sounds like it's for cases where a unit is being created only for a particular side rather than for everybody.
20161108 20:54:22< celticminstrel> If you actually want to do this you should probably talk to gfgtdf and possibly iceiceice.
20161108 20:54:30< celticminstrel> Yeah, pretty much.
20161108 20:54:32< DeFender1031> which can only happen in cases where the unit isn't actually going to last long enough to cause a desynch
20161108 20:55:07< DeFender1031> which means that a random, high ID isn't necessary... just use the current incrementer and then roll it back down when the temp units are disposed of.
20161108 20:55:23< DeFender1031> celticminstrel, let me not bite off more than I can chew
20161108 20:55:29< celticminstrel> Right, but I think there's problems detecting when that's necessary.
20161108 20:55:48< celticminstrel> IIRC this was intended to prevent OOS but could also cause OOS in some circumstances.
20161108 20:56:00< DeFender1031> I still have to get myself build-ready, and i have one project that i've actively taken on and a few others that i'd like to do.
20161108 20:56:20< DeFender1031> celticminstrel, obviously.
20161108 20:56:52< DeFender1031> for the record, i don't think that move_unit_fake should actually create a real unit object anyway
20161108 20:57:20< DeFender1031> i also tend not to use it at all, preferring to make and move real units
20161108 20:57:42< celticminstrel> That might be impossible in the current structure. (And yeah, I generally make and move real units too.)
20161108 20:58:01< celticminstrel> IIRC the unit_animator class relies on a unit possible?
20161108 20:58:04< celticminstrel> ^y
20161108 20:58:20< DeFender1031> inheritance could help here
20161108 20:58:31< celticminstrel> Maybe...
20161108 20:58:54< DeFender1031> there'd be, say, a unit_animation class which would just contain stuff for display, and a unit subclass that contained actual data
20161108 20:59:26< DeFender1031> and then the animator would take a unit_animation base class and do with it what it will
20161108 21:00:07< celticminstrel> I haven't looked closely at that area, so I'm not sure how close that is to the actual way it's done.
20161108 21:00:36< celticminstrel> Though I'm pretty sure any unit_animation class that currently exists would merely be describing a single animation definition (as specified in the unit_type)...
20161108 21:00:48< celticminstrel> And unit had no superclasses or subclasses.
20161108 21:02:35< DeFender1031> right. what i'm saying is it could be restructured to still have a function that does unit-animationey stuff without necessarily needing a full unit.
20161108 21:04:28< celticminstrel> Yeah, I'm pretty sure that that should be possible.
20161108 21:05:21< celticminstrel> I don't think an animator needs much more than the definition of the animation(s) to execute.
20161108 21:05:43< DeFender1031> right
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20161108 21:29:59< lamefun> Also, there's strange thing happening...
20161108 21:30:11< lamefun> If I move my unit to attack, it won't.
20161108 21:30:26< lamefun> If I attack from the current position, it works.
20161108 21:30:29< lamefun> What could cause this?
20161108 21:31:02< celticminstrel> Was the move interrupted?
20161108 21:32:47< lamefun> ?
20161108 21:33:11< celticminstrel> You know, when it says "Enemy unit sighted, press t to continue"?
20161108 21:33:26< celticminstrel> Or friendly unit
20161108 21:33:29< lamefun> no?
20161108 21:33:42< celticminstrel> Did the move trigger an event?
20161108 21:33:46< lamefun> does simply handling moveto interrupt a move?
20161108 21:34:42< celticminstrel> I think it interrupts an attack.
20161108 21:34:53< celticminstrel> Obviously it wouldn't interrupt a move since it doesn't trigger until the move has completed.
20161108 21:35:16< lamefun> Can I fix this?
20161108 21:35:27< celticminstrel> I'm not sure. Probably not.
20161108 21:38:44< lamefun> what's the whole point of the event if it's unusable because of this?
20161108 21:38:55< celticminstrel> It's not unusuable.
20161108 21:39:02< celticminstrel> ^unusable
20161108 21:39:26< celticminstrel> What are you trying to do with it?
20161108 21:40:33< lamefun> open shop on move to the shop
20161108 21:41:23< celticminstrel> Seems to me that interrupting an attack isn't such a problem there.
20161108 21:42:24< lamefun> http://paste.ofcode.org/346V3HBM8ZNPWhWn9SZ3tPr - what do I do wrong?
20161108 21:42:45< lamefun> (local leader_filter = { T.filter { canrecruit = true } })
20161108 21:43:37< lamefun> it's always interrupting the attack, every time, everywhere
20161108 21:44:19< celticminstrel> You should probably only trigger the event when it's a shop.
20161108 21:45:27< lamefun> filter the location in actual filters?
20161108 21:47:28< celticminstrel> Yeah, something like that.
20161108 21:48:02< celticminstrel> There's also [filter_condition] for WML events...
20161108 21:48:29< celticminstrel> Which could be used to trigger only when a variable has a certain value, for example.
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20161108 21:51:55< lamefun> well
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20161108 21:52:03< lamefun> the problem is W.disallow_end_turn {} ...
20161108 21:52:18< celticminstrel> Oh?
20161108 21:52:46< lamefun> http://paste.ofcode.org/346V3HBM8ZNPWhWn9SZ3tPr - here
20161108 21:52:54< lamefun> it's there so you can't block the shop for other players
20161108 21:53:18< celticminstrel> What if you have no moves left?
20161108 21:54:00< lamefun> unit.moves = unit.max_moves :/
20161108 21:54:48< zookeeper> ditch that terrible lua thing, write everything in WML instead. it'll be fun.
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20161108 22:08:09< celticminstrel> No, I mean, if all your units except one have no moves left, and you move that unit to a shop, and now it also has no moves left...
20161108 22:08:19< celticminstrel> Then your allow_end_turn can never be reached, right?
20161108 22:08:48< lamefun> shop restores the moves
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20161108 22:11:38< celticminstrel> Oh, okay.
20161108 22:11:51< celticminstrel> So moving to a shop also grants you free move points.
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20161108 22:12:33 * celticminstrel wonders if you accounted for the possibility of having multiple units on a shop at the same time.
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--- Log closed Wed Nov 09 00:00:30 2016