--- Log opened Sat Nov 12 00:00:06 2016
--- Day changed Sat Nov 12 2016
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20161112 00:08:35< Shiki> what's the opposite to scons install?
20161112 00:13:39< Shiki> ah, found it, scons -c install
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20161112 02:08:06< Ipsilon> is it possible to change the panning keys to wasd? Also, how do you guys generally pan?
20161112 02:09:30< celticminstrel> It's not possible in 1.12. IIRC that ability has been added in 1.13.
20161112 02:09:44< celticminstrel> I usually use the mouse though.
20161112 02:09:48< Ipsilon> oh? I read the changelog and didn't see it
20161112 02:09:51< Ipsilon> that'd be awesome
20161112 02:10:09< Ipsilon> celticminstrel: the mouse is really clunky for my taste
20161112 02:10:10< celticminstrel> Sometimes things get missed from the changelog, but this would've been a version or two back.
20161112 02:10:13< celticminstrel> 1.13.4 or 1.13.5.
20161112 02:10:14< Ipsilon> the panning isn't smooth
20161112 02:10:16< Ipsilon> even middle-click
20161112 02:10:25< celticminstrel> Huh? Middle-click?
20161112 02:10:32< Ipsilon> middle click doesn't pan?
20161112 02:10:34< Ipsilon> nm then
20161112 02:10:40< celticminstrel> I just move the mouse out of the window and the game scrolls.
20161112 02:10:44< Ipsilon> I know
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20161112 02:10:49< Ipsilon> that's what I call clunky
20161112 02:10:53< Ipsilon> it's not smooth
20161112 02:11:00< Ipsilon> at least for me
20161112 02:11:12< celticminstrel> It seems fine to me.
20161112 02:11:20< Ipsilon> I play mobas, so that wouldn't be a bad option, but it just doesn't feel natural
20161112 02:11:27< celticminstrel> But I dunno if that's because we have different standards or different experiences.
20161112 02:11:34< Ipsilon> probably
20161112 02:12:01< Ipsilon> arrow keys aren't horrible, but I'm not used to relying on arrow keys, and it's a bit far from other hotkeys
20161112 02:12:29< Ipsilon> nway, I'll wait till 1.13 is in the repos
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20161112 06:26:58< lamefun> Why do Lua metatables miss an important feature __pairs, __ipairs :(?
20161112 06:27:27< celticminstrel> I thought they had that?
20161112 06:27:49< celticminstrel> Wesnoth was using __pairs in 1.13, at least.
20161112 06:27:55< celticminstrel> ^ __ipairs
20161112 06:28:06< celticminstrel> Probably __pairs too somewhere, I guess.
20161112 06:28:16< celticminstrel> Maybe even in 1.12. Not sure.
20161112 06:29:00< celticminstrel> If you're judging from the documentation, it'd probably only be mentioned in the description of the pairs() or ipairs() function, rather than with the operator overloading and other metatable stuff.
20161112 06:40:25< lamefun> http://paste.ofcode.org/iXKdQATxftLExmiCM8h8ce - am I an idiot for wanting this?
20161112 07:31:51< celticminstrel> I doubt it?
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20161112 07:55:42< Ipsilon> So, I am playing 'Heir to the Throne' on (Normal). AM at the three liches with 9 lvl3's and a few lvl 2's
20161112 07:55:50< Ipsilon> generally speaking..should I be able to do this?
20161112 07:56:18< Ipsilon> maybe I lvld the wrong units
20161112 07:57:07< vultraz> the campaign is winnable 
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20161112 09:41:37< zookeeper> someone PM's me on the forums asking "yo whats a general good idea for locations for the leaders.(I don't want them to be easy to get to, but not impossable to reach.) you got any ideas?"
20161112 09:41:44< zookeeper> uh... umm...
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20161112 09:49:26< Smok> hi
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20161112 12:06:27< tokage> hi
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20161112 12:43:50< lamefun> can I register tags for scenario toplevels?
20161112 12:47:01< lamefun> never mind
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20161112 13:00:14< lamefun> I've faced yet another issue that makes me say wow.
20161112 13:00:15< lamefun> #ifdef CS_DEBUG_LUA {CC_LUA_CODE {CS_DEBUG_LUA}} #endif
20161112 13:00:37< lamefun> (with newlines of course after #ifdef, #endif
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20161112 13:00:46< lamefun> Doesn't work, but if I remove the #ifdef, it does work!
20161112 13:02:48< lamefun> What could be a cause of such a bizzare behavior?
20161112 13:03:31< vultraz> no ide
20161112 13:03:34< vultraz> a
20161112 13:09:37< lamefun> well
20161112 13:09:44< lamefun> seems that ifndef doesn't work in expansions...
20161112 13:10:26< lamefun> I replaced [event] name=preload first_time_only=no [/event] with {CC_ON_PRELOAD (...)} macro and then it stopped working, changed it back and now it works again...
20161112 13:10:53< vultraz> first_time_only = no really has no effect in a preload event
20161112 13:11:13< lamefun> i meant yes
20161112 13:11:18< lamefun> ...
20161112 13:11:21< lamefun> nevermind
20161112 13:11:23< vultraz> still no effect
20161112 13:11:40< vultraz> by definition, a preload event will fire once
20161112 13:11:52< vultraz> same for prestart and start
20161112 13:12:22< lamefun> I thought it fired every time the game is loaded from a save...
20161112 13:12:39< lamefun> https://wiki.wesnoth.org/Eventwml#preload
20161112 13:12:42< lamefun> even the docs say so
20161112 13:12:52< vultraz> yes
20161112 13:13:11< vultraz> I mean once per game
20161112 13:13:13< lamefun> "This means that it is effectively mandatory to have the first_time_only=no key value in a preload event."
20161112 13:14:35< vultraz> wait what
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20161112 13:44:58< lamefun> My favourite weapon of those I made so far: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Net8-yEul4
20161112 13:46:05< lamefun> the fall is animated using halo_x = string.format('%i~0', x_dist) and halo_y = string.format('%i~0', -y_dist)
20161112 13:46:30< lamefun> the problem is that if I make these too large, the main animation begins skipping frames... I don't want the meteor to seem to be appearing out of nowhere...
20161112 13:49:40< lamefun> is this known and can I work around this bug?
20161112 13:50:03< zookeeper> ohh, fancy
20161112 13:51:31< zookeeper> well appearing out of nowhere isn't too bad if it happens with a fade-in
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20161112 14:04:36< lamefun> nevermind what I said
20161112 14:05:33< lamefun> it seems to be something else, even when i set distance to 100, it sometimes still skips frames...
20161112 14:07:09< lamefun> well, at least it works 99% of the time... in 1.10 processed images couldn't be used at all without flickering...
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20161112 15:41:20< lamefun> Is there a way to hook into unit rebuild process (after advance, transform, etc)?
20161112 15:41:31< lamefun> objects are kinda cumbersome...
20161112 15:44:57< lamefun> why isn't there an effect that just runs code on the unit :(?
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20161112 16:26:16< lamefun> Is there a wesnoth.textdomain_plural (eg. tr_num('+%i strike', '+%i strikes', strike_increase))?
20161112 16:26:28< DeFender1031> ummwhat?
20161112 16:26:33< DeFender1031> what are you trying to do?
20161112 16:26:46< lamefun> ?
20161112 16:26:54< lamefun> Basic gettext has that.
20161112 16:27:22< DeFender1031> what are yu tring to do?
20161112 16:27:29< lamefun> https://www.gnu.org/savannah-checkouts/gnu/gettext/manual/html_node/Plural-forms.html
20161112 16:27:47< lamefun> I want to make weapons for which damage/strikes can be purchased only in packages of 2, 3, etc.
20161112 16:28:04< DeFender1031> what does that even mean?
20161112 16:28:37< DeFender1031> okay, let me be more clear. What are you expecting the function you're looking for to do?
20161112 16:29:03< lamefun> Many languages have multiple plural forms (instead of just adding an 's' at the end).
20161112 16:29:18< lamefun> The gettext function I liked deals with that.
20161112 16:29:33< DeFender1031> that's true.
20161112 16:29:46< DeFender1031> you still haen't made it clear what you expect the function to do
20161112 16:30:27< lamefun> return the first argument if i == 1 or i == -1, otherwise return the second (with %i substituted)
20161112 16:30:53< lamefun> That's for English, in other cases it should use the logic defined in the translation file.
20161112 16:32:16< DeFender1031> that sounds like a terrible way to structure a pluralizer function
20161112 16:32:32< DeFender1031> but either way, i'm not aware of anything in wesnoth like that
20161112 16:34:09< lamefun> Yes, it can depend only on 1 number like that.
20161112 16:34:43< lamefun> But for more complex cases, separate scriptable logic should be ideally used.
20161112 16:35:14< DeFender1031> i know, but what makes sense to me would be a system that takes one string and one set of replacements, and then no matter what language, you handle the plurals internallly.
20161112 16:36:21< lamefun> how would that work?
20161112 16:36:32< DeFender1031> meaning even for english (or whaatever language your primary development is in), you would do translate("$num units", num) and then in the translation definition you'd special case for 1
20161112 16:38:23< lamefun> Although it's quite baffling that Wesnoth doesn't have that, considering that it's a strategy/RPG that deals with numbers a lot...
20161112 16:40:08< DeFender1031> does it not? I honestly don't know what translation definitions look like
20161112 16:40:51< DeFender1031> i'd be very surprised though if you couldn't specify "this string translates like this, unless the value of this variable is that, in which case it translates as this other thing"
20161112 16:41:34< DeFender1031> Ooooh. Just caught up on the backlog. Love the meteor animation.
20161112 16:41:58< DeFender1031> (It's stuff like that that makes me wish there was a function to get the current screen size)
20161112 16:42:22< lamefun> how would that be helpful?
20161112 16:42:47< DeFender1031> well, if you want it to always look like the meteor is coming from offscreen
20161112 16:42:55< DeFender1031> then you'd know where to start it
20161112 16:43:12< DeFender1031> though that would get annoying to update if the player changes the size in the middle
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20161112 17:48:54< lamefun> How do I properly get variation for Soulless?
20161112 17:49:08< lamefun> variation = cc.default(type_cfg.undead_variation, type_cfg.race) -- doesn't work for bats, works for goblins and some others though
20161112 17:50:49< celticminstrel> Sorry, what's your question?
20161112 17:52:00< lamefun> I have a unit and want to make it into a custom zombie
20161112 17:52:17< celticminstrel> So basically you want a Soulless with a specific variation.
20161112 17:52:28< celticminstrel> You're still working on 1.12?
20161112 17:52:33< lamefun> yes
20161112 17:53:02< celticminstrel> The variations of Walking Corpse and Soulless are defined in their definition.
20161112 17:53:14< celticminstrel> Using a unit's race as a fallback probably would be very effective.
20161112 17:53:21< lamefun> I do
20161112 17:53:23< lamefun> doesn't work for bats
20161112 17:53:39< celticminstrel> Gack, somehow that turned into the opposite of what I wanted to say.
20161112 17:53:41< celticminstrel> ^won't be
20161112 17:54:24< lamefun> how does the engine choose?
20161112 17:55:00< celticminstrel> The variations are drake, dwarf, goblin, gryphon, mounted, saurian, swimmer, troll, wose, bat.
20161112 17:55:19< celticminstrel> The engine uses the undead_variation in the killed unit's definition.
20161112 17:55:30< lamefun> then why doesn't it work for bats?
20161112 17:55:37< lamefun> there are clearly soulless bats in the unit images
20161112 17:57:08< celticminstrel> ...
20161112 17:57:18< celticminstrel> Does it work in normal gameplay?
20161112 17:58:06< lamefun> Don't know, haven't checked
20161112 17:58:58< lamefun> in race: [ undead_variation: sets the default undead variation for members of this race.
20161112 17:59:14< lamefun> probably doesn't propagate to wesnoth.unit_types[type].__cfg
20161112 17:59:24< celticminstrel> Ohhh. undead_variation is specified in the race definition, not the unit_type definition. (But the unit_type can override it if it wants to.)
20161112 17:59:49< celticminstrel> I was just wondering why the bat unit types didn't specify it. I guess that's why.
20161112 18:00:11< celticminstrel> I'd call this a bug though...
20161112 18:00:42< celticminstrel> You were getting type_cfg from wesnoth.unit_types?
20161112 18:01:13< lamefun> where else?
20161112 18:01:23< celticminstrel> Does wesnoth.unit_types["Vampire Bat"].undead_variation contain nothing then?
20161112 18:01:31< lamefun> probably
20161112 18:02:44< lamefun> well, works now
20161112 18:02:54< lamefun> cc.default(type_variation, race_variation)
20161112 18:03:11< celticminstrel> So falling back on wesnoth.races.bats.undead_variation?
20161112 18:03:19< lamefun> yes
20161112 18:03:37< lamefun> BTW, are units/types required to have races?
20161112 18:03:52< celticminstrel> I suspect not.
20161112 18:05:52< lamefun> and units are not required to have types?
20161112 18:06:42< celticminstrel> I think they are required to have types.
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20161112 18:12:48< lamefun> BTW, the advancement dialog seems to appear only on attack in MP - is this a bug?
20161112 18:13:28< zookeeper> when else should it?
20161112 18:14:21< lamefun> if a unit kills someone in self-defense, it advances randomly
20161112 18:14:46< zookeeper> only the active player/client gets to give input during their turn
20161112 18:14:57< zookeeper> if another player/client unit advances on your turn, then it's random
20161112 18:15:29< lamefun> is it intended?
20161112 18:15:35< zookeeper> yes
20161112 18:20:57-!- Kwandulin [~Miranda@p5DDD2B8F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth
20161112 18:25:04< celticminstrel> It's annoying, but intended.
20161112 18:28:17< lamefun> can it be disabled for a scenario?
20161112 18:41:39< Ravana_> you can just bypass it
20161112 18:43:03< zookeeper> no it can't be.
20161112 18:43:44< zookeeper> (unless there actually is some new support for allowing other players to give some kind of input during others' turns)
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20161112 19:12:20< lamefun> ...
20161112 19:12:27< lamefun> Elvish Sylph gender=male...
20161112 19:16:15< lamefun> Randomly generated female Elvish Archers still have gender=female...
20161112 19:17:51< celticminstrel> Sylph should never have gender=male... well maybe if it was explicitly set, but...
20161112 19:23:49< lamefun> Maybe my way of spawning is the culprit...
20161112 19:23:50< lamefun> wesnoth -m --scenario Colosseum_XP_3p_scenario --parm 2:type:'Elvish Sylph' --parm 3:no_leader:yes --parm 4:no_leader:yes
20161112 19:25:47< celticminstrel> I'd assume that's equivalent to [side]side,type=2,Elvish Sylph
20161112 19:25:55< celticminstrel> In which case it should force it female.
20161112 19:26:39< celticminstrel> Sounds like a bug.
20161112 19:29:42< DeFender1031> oh, talking.
20161112 19:29:45< DeFender1031> hey celticminstrel 
20161112 19:35:50< DeFender1031> there's a bunch of stuff that doesn't explicitly propogate to a unit that you have to fall back on the type default, race default, or game default if not specified
20161112 19:38:43< celticminstrel> I don't suppose you have a list handy.
20161112 19:40:40< lamefun> it has gender=male IN the unit...
20161112 19:49:08< zookeeper> well that's surely just a bug with that very specific manner of creating the unit.
20161112 19:51:05< celticminstrel> ...
20161112 19:51:07-!- claymore [~claymore@unaffiliated/claymore] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20161112 19:52:36< zookeeper> that is, it doesn't affect shydes in general.
20161112 19:52:47< celticminstrel> Yeah.
20161112 19:52:57< celticminstrel> The "..." was about gender=male being in the unit.
20161112 20:02:41< celticminstrel> I want to see how that SotA ship looks in-game...
20161112 20:08:38< DeFender1031> celticminstrel, well, not quite the same, but for example, the flag icon for a side doesn't actually contain the default flag if not explicitly set, it's just empty.
20161112 20:10:12< DeFender1031> celticminstrel, open the map editor and open the SotA map entitled "Blackwater"
20161112 20:10:19< DeFender1031> the ship is in there
20161112 20:10:29< DeFender1031> looks pretty dang good.
20161112 20:10:50 * celticminstrel launches Wesnoth, then realizes it won't work if the addon isn't actually installed.
20161112 20:10:56< DeFender1031> hahahaha
20161112 20:11:01< DeFender1031> yeah, you'd need to do that
20161112 20:11:11< celticminstrel> (I downloaded it from the website instead of through the addons manager.)
20161112 20:11:23< DeFender1031> (i only know this because the other day when you asked about a ship, i went and checked.)
20161112 20:11:35< celticminstrel> My Finder windows are getting out of hand again.
20161112 20:12:16< celticminstrel> Isn't the latest 1.12.6? Why do I still have 1.12.5?
20161112 20:12:54< celticminstrel> The editor won't load it.
20161112 20:13:07< celticminstrel> Wait, does it still think it's not installed maybe...?
20161112 20:13:36< DeFender1031> btw, celticminstrel, did you get answers to "water gushing out of a cave wall" and "good sound for quake"? Because as to the former, something nice could be cobbled together with Ris of the Elementalist terrain/cave/water-fall-1.png, and for the latter, i have a rumble-short.ogg that I cropped out of the mainline rumble sound for just that purpose.
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20161112 20:13:51< DeFender1031> celticminstrel, f5
20161112 20:14:02< celticminstrel> Yeah, that didn't work for some reason...
20161112 20:14:14< DeFender1031> if you're still having trouble, i can get you a screenshot.
20161112 20:14:28< celticminstrel> Trying again,
20161112 20:14:40< celticminstrel> And I'll check Console.app too before giving up.
20161112 20:15:31< celticminstrel> Aha, the unarchiver added an extra directory layer.
20161112 20:15:50< celticminstrel> So it was at addons/Secrets_of_the_Ancients/Secrets_of_the_Ancients.
20161112 20:15:51< DeFender1031> anyway, i don't know if you were here when I mentioned that I wrote a script that went through all the add-ons and pulled out all their images and sounds, so i'm pretty familiar with what graphics exist (don't know EVERYTHING offhand though, as there are something like 600,000 of them).
20161112 20:16:08< DeFender1031> that's... not how that should work.
20161112 20:16:14< celticminstrel> Yeah.
20161112 20:16:16< DeFender1031> also, i just install add-ons in-game
20161112 20:16:30< DeFender1031> though i guess if you already have it it's silly to re-download.
20161112 20:16:32< celticminstrel> I usually do, but I wasn't planning to install it, just look at its assets.
20161112 20:17:44< celticminstrel> Now it's listed in campaigns but still won't load in the editor.
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20161112 20:18:04< DeFender1031> the issue with the ship for what i would do with it is that it is facing SW (which could also be SE with a simple image flip), and fir geographical reasons, I need the ship in my scenarios to be going in a northerly direction :/
20161112 20:18:18< DeFender1031> fine, then let me just get you a screenshot
20161112 20:18:26< celticminstrel> Oh, good point.
20161112 20:19:12< celticminstrel> Somehow I thought that an image flip would make it NE, but now that you say it I realize I was obviously wrong.
20161112 20:19:44< DeFender1031> i mean, you can make it face NE, but it'll be upside-down too
20161112 20:20:11< celticminstrel> No, I was actually thinking a horizontal flip would do that. For some reason.
20161112 20:20:18< DeFender1031> oh
20161112 20:20:20< DeFender1031> yeah, no.
20161112 20:20:21< celticminstrel> Wait, were you trying to send me a file?
20161112 20:20:28< DeFender1031> hmm... seems you can't accept DCC
20161112 20:20:31< DeFender1031> yeah
20161112 20:20:34< celticminstrel> No, I can.
20161112 20:20:36< DeFender1031> oh
20161112 20:20:40< DeFender1031> okay, then i'll retry
20161112 20:20:46< celticminstrel> I just clicked refuse because it popped up while I was in the middle of typing.
20161112 20:20:54< DeFender1031> ah
20161112 20:21:02< DeFender1031> it's a screenshot of the ship
20161112 20:21:16< DeFender1031> sorry, guess i should have warned you before sending :P
20161112 20:21:18< celticminstrel> Apparently it can't guess the file type.
20161112 20:21:31< celticminstrel> (I said clicked but it was actually probably the space bar that did it.)
20161112 20:21:38< DeFender1031> it's a png.
20161112 20:21:40< DeFender1031> ah
20161112 20:22:08< DeFender1031> anyway, it's actually a really beautiful graphic
20161112 20:22:31< DeFender1031> and there's probably a way to make it northerly with some minor editing
20161112 20:22:36< celticminstrel> Yeah, looks pretty good.
20161112 20:22:38< DeFender1031> i'm just not that skilled
20161112 20:22:55< DeFender1031> i also discovered that it's used in another add-on, but i don't recall which
20161112 20:23:13< DeFender1031> it actually might be in ever more add-ons, as my script ignored duplicate files
20161112 20:23:16< DeFender1031> even*
20161112 20:23:27< DeFender1031> (i did log duplicates in a text file though.)
20161112 20:24:25< DeFender1031> anyway, i feel like the main deck of the ship and the main rigging would be usabe as-is for north-facing as well, and that just the bow and the rear deck would need to be redrawn.
20161112 20:24:57 * celticminstrel wonders whether your script includes all of eleazzaar's attack/spell icons that I have... I dunno if that's available as an addon.
20161112 20:25:12< celticminstrel> Yeah, I was thinking that too.
20161112 20:25:44< DeFender1031> the script only included images from add-ons, and then again only from those at the time when I ran it
20161112 20:26:03< celticminstrel> Did it include all versions?
20161112 20:26:08< DeFender1031> i COULD update the script to be able to merge new stuff into what i've already compiled.
20161112 20:26:10< celticminstrel> eg 1.10, 1.8.
20161112 20:26:14< DeFender1031> ah
20161112 20:26:18< DeFender1031> no, it didn't
20161112 20:26:33< DeFender1031> the script itself doesn't even do the connecting
20161112 20:26:41< DeFender1031> i actually manually downloaded everything in-game
20161112 20:26:47< celticminstrel> I have a folder of Wesnoth stuff, mostly older addons.
20161112 20:26:49< celticminstrel> ... o.o
20161112 20:27:03< DeFender1031> (this was before i realized that the stuff was availble through a browser)
20161112 20:27:16< DeFender1031> i could update the script to download everything
20161112 20:27:31< celticminstrel> I have 72 story images that mostly look like doctored photos.
20161112 20:27:41< DeFender1031> another reason i'm not sure it's worth bothering with older versions is that the graphics style changed at some point, no?
20161112 20:27:49< celticminstrel> True...
20161112 20:27:57< celticminstrel> I think that was fairly early, but no idea exactly when.
20161112 20:28:03< DeFender1031> yeah, the dump contains a ton of crap images as well as good ones
20161112 20:28:11< celticminstrel> 1.10 certainly had the same style (that's the first version I ever played).
20161112 20:28:24< DeFender1031> i've been occasionally going through it and manually organizing it into sensible directories
20161112 20:28:44< DeFender1031> have barely made a dent though
20161112 20:29:25< celticminstrel> I have some elvish treehouses that I want to get working as a terrain.
20161112 20:29:58< celticminstrel> Misc attack icons from who-knows-where...
20161112 20:30:15< celticminstrel> A paved road terrain...
20161112 20:30:22< DeFender1031> terrain graphics are annoying. Most of the terrain graphics i've added to my campaign, i basically added so they'll look right in the specific spot where I'm using them, but may end up terrible if used elsewhere.
20161112 20:30:27< celticminstrel> (Like, cobblestone.)
20161112 20:30:53< DeFender1031> there's some nice brick floor graphics that i'm using in mine
20161112 20:31:42< celticminstrel> I think the only terrain graphics in my campaign are the ones used in scenario 2, and they're not even a unique terrain type.
20161112 20:31:44< DeFender1031> btw, celticminstrel, did you get answers to "water gushing out of a cave wall" and "good sound for quake"? Because as to the former, something nice could be cobbled together with Rise of the Elementalist terrain/cave/water-fall-1.png, and for the latter, i have a rumble-short.ogg that I cropped out of the mainline rumble sound for just that purpose.
20161112 20:32:06< celticminstrel> I saw that the first time you said it. :P
20161112 20:32:20< DeFender1031> ah, didn't know, we got sidetracked and you didn't answer
20161112 20:32:34< celticminstrel> Ideally it'd be gushing out of a southerly wall, but west or north would also work.
20161112 20:32:44< DeFender1031> hmm
20161112 20:32:58< celticminstrel> I actually used lightning.ogg for the quake, mainly because {EARTHQUAKE} hardcodes that, but I could still change it.
20161112 20:33:28< DeFender1031> yeah, that didn't make the right sound IMO (at least where I needed it)
20161112 20:33:44< celticminstrel> It kinda works, but it's not a great fit.
20161112 20:33:49< DeFender1031> i'll send you rumble-short
20161112 20:34:03< DeFender1031> don't type, here comes a file.
20161112 20:34:31< DeFender1031> if you like it, feel free to use it.
20161112 20:34:48< DeFender1031> if not, no pressure.
20161112 20:36:21 * celticminstrel unsets the auto-open setting.
20161112 20:36:29< celticminstrel> It opened the ogg in a metadata editor. 9_9
20161112 20:37:28< celticminstrel> rumble-short sounds fine.
20161112 20:39:09< DeFender1031> :P
20161112 20:43:10< lamefun> Is there a way to define zones in map editors?
20161112 20:43:56< DeFender1031> lamefun, that would be a nice feature, but sadly no.
20161112 20:44:11< vultraz> it exists 
20161112 20:44:14< vultraz> kinda
20161112 20:44:19< DeFender1031> vultraz, ???
20161112 20:44:29< lamefun> even in 1.14?
20161112 20:44:41< DeFender1031> lamefun, 1.14 doesn't exist yet
20161112 20:44:51< lamefun> there won't be zones in map editor in 1.14?
20161112 20:45:00< vultraz> ...wha??
20161112 20:45:26< lamefun> ?
20161112 20:45:36< DeFender1031> wait, back up
20161112 20:45:42< DeFender1031> there IS no version 1.14
20161112 20:45:49< DeFender1031> current stable is 1.12
20161112 20:45:54< DeFender1031> current dev is 1.13
20161112 20:46:10< lamefun> will there be zones in map editor in 1.14?
20161112 20:46:13< DeFender1031> as for zones, i don't know what vultraz is referring to?
20161112 20:46:32< lamefun> I don't want to list every single cell manually...
20161112 20:46:40< vultraz> if you create a new Scenario in the editor you can access the Areas menu
20161112 20:47:36< vultraz> any hexes selected with the highlight tool are exported to the resulting wml file if you save it
20161112 20:47:48< vultraz> and you get a nice list of coordinates
20161112 20:48:09< vultraz> you're *supposed* to be able to refer to these areas by id but i dunno if that ever worked
20161112 20:50:26< vultraz> but at least it's a roundabout way to get coordinates 
20161112 20:55:36< celticminstrel> IIRC the editor Areas feature uses [time_area].
20161112 20:55:40< celticminstrel> Which does exist in 1.12.
20161112 20:55:50< celticminstrel> Though I'm not sure if the SLF feature to reference them does.
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20161112 20:58:49< lamefun> do the devs plan to include add-on IDE in the editor :o?
20161112 20:59:06< celticminstrel> I don't think so.
20161112 21:01:45< lamefun> so it's just for simple scenarios?
20161112 21:02:17< celticminstrel> Yeah.
20161112 21:02:23< DeFender1031> it's an incomplete feature which actually doesn't work correctly in many cases.
20161112 21:02:31< DeFender1031> though it WILL do what vultraz said.
20161112 21:02:47< celticminstrel> It's broken in 1.13 IIRC (placing units crashes it).
20161112 21:03:18< celticminstrel> You can get what vultraz said without the editor, too. I think you use a [time_area] or something. But I dunno if that works in 1.12.
20161112 21:03:32< celticminstrel> (If the Areas feature is there though, it probably works?)
20161112 21:03:43< lamefun> I'm tempted to make a second map and then parse it with Lua and use the terrain codes instead of bothering with time_area's...
20161112 21:05:12< lamefun> The problem is that if I use a scenario, I get lots of cruft like time zones, etc...
20161112 21:05:22< lamefun> And I can't convert the existing map to a scenario...
20161112 21:06:22< celticminstrel> You probably can...
20161112 21:06:32< DeFender1031> lamefun, the idea is to use the scenario editor, save, and then copy-paste the stuff out of it that you need.
20161112 21:06:35< celticminstrel> Though I'm not entirely sure which attributes are required by the scenario loader.
20161112 21:07:15< celticminstrel> It might be sufficient to just add 'map_data="' at the top of the map file and a matching double quote at the end, and change the extension to cfg.
20161112 21:07:29< celticminstrel> But it might also require some additional attributes, like id or something.
20161112 21:12:41< lamefun> well, I'll have to parse either way...
20161112 21:12:53< edaq> hello celticminstrel 
20161112 21:12:59< edaq> hi again lamefun 
20161112 21:13:05< edaq> whats happening today?
20161112 21:13:52< lamefun> so I'll just make a map №2 and use the terrain codes...
20161112 21:15:19< celticminstrel> What exactly do you need this for?
20161112 21:15:28< celticminstrel> In particular, would a terrain mask do what you want?
20161112 21:15:45< lamefun> zone definition for random terrain generator
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20161112 21:17:27< celticminstrel> That might be doable with [terrain_mask].
20161112 21:18:03< celticminstrel> Might not be though, depending on the details.
20161112 21:23:56< DeFender1031> lamefun, if you're randomly generating terrain, why not just paint the area being generated with a certain terrain code which isn't used elsewhere in the map and then modify anything with that code?
20161112 21:23:57< lamefun> that's exactly what I'm doing
20161112 21:26:46< DeFender1031> i meant on the same map
20161112 21:26:51< DeFender1031> no need to use a second one
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--- Log closed Sun Nov 13 00:00:04 2016