--- Log opened Tue Nov 29 00:00:36 2016
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20161129 20:22:23< can-ned_food> Am I correct in thinking that a [store_villages]side= is matched prior to a [filter]side= in that same [store_villages] node?  I.e. no need for a [and] node to prioritize it.
20161129 20:24:26< can-ned_food> Second question:  what was the name of that MP Mod which allowed diplomacy between teams?
20161129 20:24:35< zookeeper> i'm trying to understand whether the answer makes any difference
20161129 20:24:45< zookeeper> (besides, it's [store_villages]owner_side=)
20161129 20:25:46< zookeeper> can-ned_food, diplomacy era perhaps? i'm sure there's been several add-ons which have diplomacy of some kind, but diplomacy era only added diplomacy.
20161129 20:27:46< zookeeper> but if you're referring to something that's not already really old, then that's not it
20161129 20:29:30< can-ned_food> That's probably it, zookeeper.  I read something about it from 2012 or so.
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20161129 20:29:58< zookeeper> yeah, it kinda died because no one seemed to be interested in it
20161129 20:31:05< can-ned_food> maybe it would work better as a mod.
20161129 20:31:58< zookeeper> well, of course
20161129 20:32:06< zookeeper> we didn't have that capability back then :p
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20161129 20:54:53< celticminstrel> It's possible that toplevel side= is ignored if a filter is present.
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20161129 20:59:39< zookeeper> i can't see how that makes sense since there is no toplevel side=
20161129 21:00:23< celticminstrel> I mean toplevel side within [store_villages].
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20161129 21:00:53< zookeeper> exactly
20161129 21:01:18< celticminstrel> It doesn't have it?
20161129 21:01:20 * celticminstrel shrugs.
20161129 21:01:27< celticminstrel> Some tags do, I don't remember which ones.
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20161129 21:02:36< zookeeper> anyway, i still haven't even convinced myself that the original question makes sense
20161129 21:02:54< zookeeper> as with all filters, only things which match all criteria are stored
20161129 21:03:00< celticminstrel> Oh, owner_side.
20161129 21:03:43< celticminstrel> I still think it's possible that owner_side is ignored if [filter] is present. I do know there's a specific compatibility function in the Lua to handle cases where there can be either a toplevel side key or a full side filter.
20161129 21:03:46< zookeeper> so if you have owned_side=1 and [filter] side=1, then only villages which are owned by side 1 and have a side 1 unit in them get stored. which seems like the latter criteria is a bit redundant :p
20161129 21:04:18< celticminstrel> Hm, well, I guess it's semantically different though compared to just owned_side=1.
20161129 21:04:35< celticminstrel> If anything's redundant there it's the owned_side.
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20161129 21:04:41< zookeeper> well, sure
20161129 21:04:59< zookeeper> depends on what one wants, i guess
20161129 21:05:31< can-ned_food> My question was as to which was used first, and then which was used to compare against that set of preliminary matches.
20161129 21:05:48< can-ned_food> I wanted to make the first criteria be the more restrictive.
20161129 21:06:33< zookeeper> why?
20161129 21:07:11< zookeeper> i mean, as far as i understand how this stuff works, the order doesn't matter, the results are still going to be the same.
20161129 21:07:13< can-ned_food> smaller set to handle the second time.  i don't know if it helps the workload.
20161129 21:07:18< zookeeper> right
20161129 21:07:39< can-ned_food> other than that, there is no reason.
20161129 21:08:13< zookeeper> in that case, i have no idea, probably you'd have to try to check the source code
20161129 21:08:40< can-ned_food> gotcha.  and anyways, it isn't redundant if you want to match villages owned by a certain side And occupied by a unit or troop of a certain other side.  ;-)
20161129 21:08:45< celticminstrel> ISTR the game iterates the entire map once and checks each hex against the entire filter, but I could be wrong.
20161129 21:09:05< celticminstrel> can-ned_food: Is that even a possible situation?
20161129 21:09:32< can-ned_food> with my mod it is.  and i wouldn't be surprised if the Wiki was incorrect yet again, Minstrel.
20161129 21:09:50< celticminstrel> I'm not basing that comment on the wiki though.
20161129 21:10:10< can-ned_food> I know, I'm saying that my information was so.
20161129 21:10:36< zookeeper> the c++ code seems to first check for [filter] and then for owner_side
20161129 21:11:23< zookeeper> (owner_side= is actually the last thing it checks, except for formula=)
20161129 21:11:25< can-ned_food> If you and the Wiki disagree, I know that I put less stock in the Wiki.  Granted, that's not saying much, but there's no disparagement on you.
20161129 21:11:57< can-ned_food> Thanks, zookeeper.  what file is that, or is it obvious?
20161129 21:12:14< zookeeper> src/terrain/filter.cpp it seems
20161129 21:13:01< celticminstrel> Ohh, [store_villages] is an inline SSF, okay.
20161129 21:13:39 * celticminstrel notes that src/side_filter.cpp probably implements the SSD. Pretty sure it's side_filter and not team_filter.
20161129 21:13:50< celticminstrel> ^SSF
20161129 21:14:02< celticminstrel> No wait, inline SLF.
20161129 21:14:07< celticminstrel> Why would I think SSF.
20161129 21:14:09< celticminstrel> Duh.
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20161129 23:05:20< Shiki> Hello
20161129 23:05:37< Shiki> Is it possible that traits are conflicting between add-ons?
20161129 23:05:55< Shiki> Does it make sense to add an era prefix for them?
20161129 23:08:31< zookeeper> i don't see how exactly they would conflict, doesn't mean it's impossible though
20161129 23:13:31< Shiki> Is it not because we place them everytime with a macro in the unit_type? And macros are not shared among add-ons?
20161129 23:15:39< zookeeper> sure technically macros are shared, but when the game preprocesses your add-on, the macros from other add-ons can't overwrite your macros
20161129 23:16:07< zookeeper> what add-ons can do, though, is overwrite core macros (and really they shouldn't) and that will then affect other add-ons
20161129 23:16:23< zookeeper> at least i'm not aware of any safeguards against that
20161129 23:24:56< Shiki> I thought each addon has an own namespace plus the default one.
20161129 23:25:25< zookeeper> well it's possible i'm completely out of date with my understanding
20161129 23:25:53< Shiki> well, I have no idea about the backend, it are just my observations from era maintaining
20161129 23:26:05< zookeeper> should be easy enough to test that with some dummy add-ons
20161129 23:28:21< Shiki> I think it's all fine, and prefixes are only required for race and unit ids. I got a bit to crazy about adding prefixes.
20161129 23:31:25< Shiki> ....since the (1.12) leadership macro has the same id for different effects too
20161129 23:31:55< Shiki> and I newer saw someone using perfixes for abilities etc either... 
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--- Log closed Wed Nov 30 00:00:58 2016