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20170130 10:52:04< zookeeper> madmax28, are you planning on also fixing the issue where quick replaying only goes up to the point (or turn?) at which you joined, and any moves that the players do while you're watching the quick replay will be played at normal speed?
20170130 10:52:20< zookeeper> or do either of the PRs actually address that already (it didn't sound like that to me, though)?
20170130 10:53:13< madmax28> zookeeper the second PR actually addresses that
20170130 10:53:14< zookeeper> i find that pretty annoying behavior, because if i join a match that's been going on for a long while, i end up having to watch a lot of moves at normal speed
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20170130 10:53:50< zookeeper> oh? the description says it works by turn number
20170130 10:53:51< madmax28> zookeeper with the second PR, it works just as it did in version 1.12
20170130 10:54:22< madmax28> 1.12 also worked with turn numbers afaik
20170130 10:54:43< zookeeper> so... i take that as a no, then? :P
20170130 10:57:25< madmax28> my original motivation was that i always disliked the "quick replay" feature in the first place. i feel like it should entirely skip the replay in that case, and jump to the state of the game as it was when the user joined
20170130 10:58:04< zookeeper> sure, that makes sense. or maybe rather to have a separate option for that, "no replay" or something
20170130 10:58:13< madmax28> yeah
20170130 10:59:11< madmax28> i just checked out the code base for the first time yesterday. i'll continue playing around with it and figure out if that is possible. i guess if it worked that way it would also solve your consideration ;)
20170130 10:59:57< zookeeper> well, kinda. it'd let me skip all replays, but it'd still remain a bug if i wanted to see the quick replay only
20170130 11:02:28< madmax28> yeah i understand. the problem is that the current code only propagates the "current_turn" information at time of joining (as in 1.12). to do what you ask, it has to detect that the replay reached the current state independently somehow.
20170130 11:03:39< zookeeper> i see
20170130 11:03:40< madmax28> i'm planning to check on the WML format that wesnothd sends to the client and if that information is in there. if it is, i will also address that
20170130 11:05:03< zookeeper> i don't know the code but logically the end of the replay is pretty straightforward; if there's no further commands available, then you're at the end of the replay. but as said, whether the code is structured so that you can actually check that condition, i wouldn't know.
20170130 11:05:19< madmax28> i just started to have a look at the code base though, so no promises :p
20170130 11:05:56< zookeeper> no worries
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20170130 11:09:45< madmax28> i also feel like it should be straight forward. but the current "quick replay" implementations seems to me like a workaround to skipping the replay entirely. quick replay is way too fast to be of any use imo
20170130 11:11:05< madmax28> so maybe there was a good reason why the replay couldn't be skipped entirely and quick replays were introduced instead
20170130 11:11:43< zookeeper> i dunno, it does give you an overview of sorts, i think? where each side started at, where most fighting took place, that sort of thing.
20170130 11:12:14< zookeeper> but yes i'm pretty sure when it was implemented, it was an alternative for skipping the whole replay, which was difficult to do for some reason
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20170130 11:34:23< Soliton> you can't skip the replay because the replay is all you have.
20170130 11:34:58< Soliton> we'd have to periodically save the game state to be able to skip the replay.
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20170130 11:40:11< zookeeper> doesn't the server have the current game state at all times?
20170130 11:41:01< Soliton> no. the server just forwards commands/messages and saves those.
20170130 11:41:18< zookeeper> right, well, that explains it
20170130 11:43:19< madmax28> Soliton hm. maybe the game state can be constructed from the received replay without presenting the commands to the user
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20170130 11:44:27< JyrkiVesterinen> It might be possible to turn off rendering during quick replay. That way it would replay even faster.
20170130 11:51:35< madmax28> JyrkiVesterinen, Yeah that should work, but it's still kind of a workaround. Converting replays to game states would be very flexible. It could also observers to do things like "replay from turn X", for example
20170130 11:57:32< madmax28> Do you think this might be doable?
20170130 11:58:20< JyrkiVesterinen> I think it would be a lot of work. :/
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20170130 12:30:33< Soliton> madmax28: the server has no game data. it has no idea what the game state looks like.
20170130 12:31:36< Soliton> constructing the game state from the replay is pretty much what quick replay does. it surely could be improved by decoupling it further from the GUI.
20170130 12:33:23< Soliton> the other idea is to have a client send the game state periodically to the server so it can send the latest game state plus the remaining replay.
20170130 12:34:27< Soliton> surely a new source of OOS possibilities and security implications.
20170130 12:35:54< madmax28> If a client joins a reloaded game, is it provided with the replay information from before the loaded state?
20170130 12:37:04< Soliton> i think it gets the game state from the point of reload.
20170130 12:37:42< Soliton> same way it gets the initial WML for a scenario.
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20170130 12:43:23< Soliton> i think the better/more general solution would be to calculate the game state from the replay. maybe it is actually reasonably fast if it does no GUI interaction.
20170130 12:45:01< madmax28> Soliton: Yeah, that's what i will look into
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20170130 12:47:16< madmax28> Is there a specific reason why replays and game states are separate formats? It seems like it would be very convenient to have a single format providing both.
20170130 12:48:00< Soliton> they are fairly different concepts, how would that look?
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20170130 12:51:09< madmax28> Well, i don't know either format in detail :) I imagine something like the initial WML plus the history commands/actions. In a way that clients could replay turns in a reloaded game, for example
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20170130 12:53:14< Soliton> that's how saves and the client/server communication work.
20170130 12:53:49< Soliton> the common format is WML.
20170130 12:54:20< Soliton> naturally game state and replay commands look differently.
20170130 12:58:53< madmax28> The problem i see is that the formats are decoupled. If you join a saved game, you lack the information to replay to that state, and if you join a game in progress, you lack the ability to jump to the final state without emulating the commands executed. If both were provided at all times, these issues could be avoided. With proper support, you could also seamlessly browse through the history of the game
20170130 13:00:37< Soliton> so for every replay command you want to save the next game state?
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20170130 13:01:21< Soliton> even for every turn that'd be huge.
20170130 13:07:55< zookeeper> i'd think that calculating the gamestate from the replay would be really fast if it was really completely decoupled from the GUI. but i wouldn't be surprised if that was hard to do, seeing how the replays still have to execute all WML events and such.
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20170130 14:05:37< gfgtdf> zookeeper: we have already 'enter blindfolded' which doesnt show anything in the ui.
20170130 14:06:30< zookeeper> gfgtdf, yeah, but that doesn't necessarily mean it actually skips all GUI stuff that takes up time, maybe it just hides them
20170130 14:06:47< gfgtdf> zookeeper: ye might be, not sure
20170130 14:11:13< zookeeper> i haven't done any measurements though to see how fast it actually is
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20170130 14:12:44< madmax28> i'm pretty sure blindfold just hides the map. the replay is still played in the background
20170130 14:13:36< gfgtdf> madmax28: yes it is, but the question was how much faster it is and whether it skips all drawing calculations
20170130 14:17:19< gfgtdf> madmax28: if we woudl really want to skip doing the whole  replay we'd need to add code that the hosts sends the gamestate to the server regulary, for example every 100 moves.
20170130 14:21:48< zookeeper> one could probably profile what the game is actually doing when playing a quick replay. i'd imagine it'd still spend most of the time doing interface-related stuff.
20170130 14:21:58< madmax28> gfgtdf:  i think the approach to just decouple playing the replay more from the GUI might be a good start. that way we wouldn't have to touch the client server communication
20170130 14:22:36< zookeeper> just executing replay commands, moving units and resolving attacks seems like it should take almost no time at all on its own
20170130 14:22:46< madmax28> i'd think so too
20170130 14:24:22< madmax28> so basically before it started rendering, it would silently construct the game state from the replay commands it got, and then treat it like a loaded game of some sorts
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20170130 20:26:06< gfgtdf> madmax28: i made a comment on the pr. 
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20170130 20:30:28< madmax28> gfgtdf: yep, saw it
20170130 20:41:34< celticminstrel> Is it just me, or have there been no appveyor notifications recently?
20170130 20:44:56< JyrkiVesterinen> It's not just you.
20170130 20:47:46< celticminstrel> What happened to them?
20170130 20:48:13< JyrkiVesterinen> I don't know.
20170130 20:48:35< JyrkiVesterinen> According to AppVeyor history, builds have been "queued" for a couple of weeks.
20170130 20:49:06< JyrkiVesterinen> One build had apparently been going for over 900 hours without any log output. I just cancelled it.
20170130 20:49:26< celticminstrel> I'm surprised Appveyor itself didn't terminate it.
20170130 20:49:28< madmax28> gfgtdf: could you merge the pr?
20170130 20:49:33< JyrkiVesterinen> https://ci.appveyor.com/project/wesnoth/wesnoth/build/Wesnoth-VS2013-master-70
20170130 20:50:03< celticminstrel> AppVeyor still fails to load (at least without cookies). So annoying.
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20170130 20:51:51< irker038> wesnoth: Maximilian Fricke wesnoth:master 8a69cf288367 / src/ (5 files in 3 dirs): Stop "quick replay" mode in MP games when the game caught up https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/8a69cf2883675374eaa85af7e7e49230239f04a1
20170130 20:52:13< gfgtdf> madmax28: ^
20170130 20:52:33< madmax28> gfgtdf: nice, thanks
20170130 20:53:50< gfgtdf> madmax28: you'll continue  working on quick replay ?
20170130 20:54:01< madmax28> yes
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20170130 21:00:34< JyrkiVesterinen> OK, I just told AppVeyor to cancel all queued builds. (One by one, because there isn't a "clear build queue" button. Oh well, it was still just one click per build.)
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20170130 21:01:24< JyrkiVesterinen> I'll wait a while for the builds to actually go from "cancelling" to "cancelled" state, and then (assuming that AppVeyor manages to cancel them all) try triggering new builds manually.
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20170130 21:05:22< JyrkiVesterinen> I triggered a new build, and AppVeyor started building it. :)
20170130 21:05:24< JyrkiVesterinen> https://ci.appveyor.com/project/wesnoth/wesnoth/build/Wesnoth-VS2013-master-186
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20170130 21:41:02< Appveyor> The Battle for Wesnoth (Visual Studio 2013) - Release Maximilian Fricke 8a69cf2: Stop "quick replay" mode in MP games when the game caught up Succeeded
20170130 21:41:02< Appveyor> Details: https://ci.appveyor.com/project/wesnoth/wesnoth/build/Wesnoth-VS2013-master-186
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20170130 21:41:41< JyrkiVesterinen> Seems like it's working again.
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20170130 22:09:15< Appveyor> The Battle for Wesnoth (Visual Studio 2013) - Debug Maximilian Fricke 8a69cf2: Stop "quick replay" mode in MP games when the game caught up Succeeded
20170130 22:09:15< Appveyor> Details: https://ci.appveyor.com/project/wesnoth/wesnoth/build/Wesnoth-VS2013-master-186
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20170130 22:40:27< madmax28> gfgtdf: i added a new PR adding an option to skip replays entirely
20170130 22:41:49< madmax28> i'll try to come up with a finer granularity to detect when we stop skipped/quick replays next
20170130 22:42:20< gfgtdf> madmax28: did you testh that its noticabeley quicker than the current enter blindfolded ?
20170130 22:42:28< madmax28> yes
20170130 22:42:33< madmax28> it's pretty much instant
20170130 22:42:41< madmax28> try it out :)
20170130 22:43:37< madmax28> the problem with the previous version was that it kept enabling and disabling rendering for every command that was processed
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20170130 22:45:06< gfgtdf_> had dc
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20170130 22:58:27< gfgtdf> added repsonse in pr
20170130 22:58:31< gfgtdf> madmax28: ^
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20170130 23:03:12< madmax28> gfgtdf: good points. popups will not be shown any more, i didn't consider that :-/
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20170130 23:03:48< madmax28> gfgtdf im not sure about the other two points
20170130 23:03:53< gfgtdf> madmax28: did you test that they will not be shown? i looked a bit at lock_updates() imple,entation and i at lest couldnt find code the prevent then form showng
20170130 23:04:00< madmax28> i should probably make sure about those points, so better not merge it yet
20170130 23:04:07< madmax28> i didn't test it
20170130 23:04:43< madmax28> the way i understood it was that it turns off rendering completely, but i'm not sure
20170130 23:08:26< madmax28> gfgtdf, yes it's certainly an issue, for example dialog::show will not show any dialogs while updates are locked
20170130 23:09:13< madmax28> display::update_display will also not render any more
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20170130 23:10:01< gfgtdf> madmax28: you mean this line https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/blob/master/src/construct_dialog.cpp#L309 ?
20170130 23:10:09< madmax28> yeah
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20170130 23:11:20< madmax28> this one seems problematic too: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/blob/master/src/display.cpp#L1410
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20170130 23:12:50< madmax28> which calls window->render() further down
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20170130 23:13:49< gfgtdf> madmax28: that code afaik only handled the gui1 dialogs, most of the dialogs are gui2 dialogs.
20170130 23:13:49< gfgtdf> madmax28: agfaik gui2 dialogs doesnt use display.cpp eigher
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20170130 23:16:02< madmax28> hm
20170130 23:18:30< madmax28> the display::flip() calls window::render() which then finall calls SDL_RenderPresent
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20170130 23:22:00< madmax28> maybe i could add functionality to only lock rendering of game-related things, not the interface
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20170130 23:30:01< madmax28> gfgtdf, you're right, dialogs will still be rendered and you can still leave the game
20170130 23:31:14< madmax28> but the lock counter will not be reset in that case, so game rendering stays locked even when joining another game
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20170130 23:34:29< gfgtdf> madmax28: wait, so i can still click on the menu bar ?
20170130 23:36:28< madmax28> gfgtdf, yeah you can click it and it will pop up, but the button to open it is not rendered
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--- Log closed Tue Jan 31 00:00:25 2017