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20170215 13:26:21< Marcgal> zookeeper: If you could take a look: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=45016&p=608441#p608441 :)
20170215 13:26:36< Marcgal>  //sorry it took me so long though
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20170215 14:30:00< zookeeper> Marcgal, sure, great, i'll take a look at that today
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20170215 14:35:52< Marcgal> zookeeper I’d love to hear Your feedback, though as of now I have to go outside… Will hit #wesnoth again in two to three hours.
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20170215 17:24:00< zookeeper> Marcgal, well, there's a lot of details to improve but i guess the basic idea works
20170215 17:24:22< Marcgal> What did I screw? ;P
20170215 17:25:57< zookeeper> mostly it's the same thing which need some polish in pebbles too, the visuals and the dialogue
20170215 17:26:32< zookeeper> although i was wondering whether the barrier-destroying mechanic should be something else than just waiting X turns. like, get all the mages adjacent to the barrier to blow it up.
20170215 17:26:49< Marcgal> Yup, this would be even better.
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20170215 17:28:04< Marcgal> The visuals, well, You said you’d implement them differently… I’d be grateful if You do, since I don’t think I can do much better than this.
20170215 17:28:16< Marcgal> What’s wrong with the dialogue, though?
20170215 17:28:51< zookeeper> nothing "wrong" i suppose, but i feel it could flow and be phrased better in some places
20170215 17:29:37< zookeeper> i did already play with some ideas for alternative barrier graphics, but nothing finished yet
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20170215 17:31:08< Marcgal> aww… just realized sth
20170215 17:31:18< Marcgal> "get all the mages adjacent to the barrier to blow it up"
20170215 17:31:24< Marcgal> Impossible to protect them in this case
20170215 17:31:56< Marcgal> Get all mages one tile away from the barrier and no further?
20170215 17:32:20< Marcgal> Probably better, but I’d have to research how to implement this
20170215 17:33:55< zookeeper> well, you move them adjacent to it at the start of your turn, and then move them away again or protect them with other units. but, arguably, it'd be hard to communicate those specifics to the player.
20170215 17:34:43< zookeeper> something like that isn't hard to implement and i don't mind doing it, i'm just not sure what would be the best way for it to work
20170215 17:36:09< Marcgal> Prob is, if you move them adjacent to the barrier and then finish turn, nothing stops the enemy from attacking them
20170215 17:36:30< zookeeper> sure, that would be a bad move :P
20170215 17:36:35< Marcgal> Unless the barrier blows the instant moment all mages hug it
20170215 17:36:40< zookeeper> yes
20170215 17:36:48< Marcgal> Okay, this would work, I guess.
20170215 17:37:26< zookeeper> but how does one assure the playe that the barrier does blow instantly, and not at the start of your next turn or whatever?
20170215 17:37:49< Marcgal> good question.
20170215 17:37:50< zookeeper> it'd be pretty awkward to try to clarify that
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20170215 17:50:31< Marcgal> Note: The mages will take the barrier down as soon as all are placed adjacent to it.
20170215 17:50:36< Marcgal> int the objectives
20170215 17:50:40< Marcgal> aww awkward
20170215 17:51:23< zookeeper> yeah, maybe it could work
20170215 17:51:48< zookeeper> i'll try to sort out the visuals and such first and then figure out that part
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20170215 17:59:11< celticminstrel> I notice your TODOs are not in English.
20170215 17:59:35< zookeeper> hard to miss
20170215 17:59:51< celticminstrel> So I'm wondering what they say. :P
20170215 18:00:00< zookeeper> google translate is quite competent
20170215 18:00:17< Marcgal> Sorry for that.
20170215 18:00:23< Marcgal> I missed this, apparently
20170215 18:00:50< Marcgal> What I meant is that I wanted to give the mages changing orbs:
20170215 18:01:25< Marcgal> When loosing them means loosing the scenario, give them such an orb Hylas usually has, and remove these orbs after the barriers go down
20170215 18:02:08< celticminstrel> So you mean giving them the hero crown or something?
20170215 18:02:37< Marcgal> As of Wesnoth 12.6 Hylas is incorrectly given a hero’s crown for the whole scenario, even though he can be safely lost
20170215 18:02:42< Marcgal> I wanted to fix this
20170215 18:03:24< celticminstrel> That sounds like something Tad probably fixed in 1.13.
20170215 18:03:39< celticminstrel> Or did he never get to this campaign? I forget.
20170215 18:04:06< Marcgal> Anyway, this would have to be adjusted again, should my idea get accepted.
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20170215 18:04:31< Marcgal> The mages would have to be given hero crowns, but only until the barrier goes down.
20170215 18:05:07< celticminstrel> Kinda seems weird to lose their crowns halfway through a scenario though.
20170215 18:05:11< celticminstrel> But I guess it's fine.
20170215 18:06:15< zookeeper> who looks at the crowns anyway? i've never learned to make make any assumptions based on whether a unit has a crown or not
20170215 18:06:42< zookeeper> mostly they just act as a visual aid to spot special units of standard types
20170215 18:06:59< DeFender1031> zookeeper, really? it's pretty consistent though. Units with a crown are not allowed to be killed. Very useful to me anyway.
20170215 18:07:09< Marcgal> Still, since they are there, it would be nice to display them properly
20170215 18:07:33< celticminstrel> It's pretty easy to add or remove a crown, in any case - the MAKE_HERO and UNMAKE_HERO macros.
20170215 18:07:53< Marcgal> wow, thanks. Didn’t know that
20170215 18:07:54< zookeeper> DeFender1031, sure it's consistent, but i'd find it surprising if many people actually played the game thinking "oh this unit has a crown, can't let them die so i better choose a less risky move with it"
20170215 18:08:27< Marcgal> Loyal mages will have to be given loyal orbs, though, after removing the crowns
20170215 18:08:51< zookeeper> what do you mean by orbs? ellipses?
20170215 18:08:58< celticminstrel> He means overlays, I think.
20170215 18:09:13< celticminstrel> Specifically, those overlays that sit on the orb.
20170215 18:09:39< zookeeper> but that's the crown
20170215 18:09:47< zookeeper> err
20170215 18:09:51< celticminstrel> If I recall correctly, there shouldn't be any problem with loyal overlays being lost.
20170215 18:10:04< Marcgal> Maybe. Would have to check this.
20170215 18:10:32< zookeeper> oh, right. yeah. they need to have the hero crown until they can die, at which point it should change to the loyal icon (a circlet, i suppose it could be?)
20170215 18:11:22< Marcgal> Yep, but there are two mages, that are not loyal.
20170215 18:12:38< celticminstrel> I think the hero crown ends up being placed on top of the loyal one and hiding it, so removing it should still leave the loyal circlet.
20170215 18:13:17< zookeeper> oh right, there's two generic white mages. maybe they shouldn't be involved at all, then.
20170215 18:13:44< Marcgal> Why? They are brought in by the Council
20170215 18:13:55< Marcgal> And even if they aren’t officialy Councilmen
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20170215 18:14:09< DeFender1031> zookeeper, I do that all the time.
20170215 18:14:41< Marcgal> Masters may need apprentices to do their work
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20170215 18:15:20< zookeeper> Marcgal, well it's just kind of weird that you have this special council posse show up and none of them can die, but only some of them are loyal with set names and some aren't. would be clearer if they all clearly had the same "status".
20170215 18:16:06< zookeeper> DeFender1031, most odd!
20170215 18:16:50< DeFender1031> I find it odd that there's anyone who DOESN'T do that.
20170215 18:17:17< Marcgal> Okay, let’s make them loyal and call them…
20170215 18:17:24< Marcgal> Apprentice Mera
20170215 18:17:33< Marcgal> Apprentice Lirylla
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20170215 18:18:21< celticminstrel> I don't actually know what this council is...
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20170215 18:18:39< zookeeper> Marcgal, works for me
20170215 18:19:10< zookeeper> celticminstrel, the great council of westin which... for some reason, isn't in westin? :>
20170215 18:19:41< zookeeper> dunno where they're supposed to have been hanging around before that scenario
20170215 18:19:57< celticminstrel> Was that the capital of Wesnoth or some other city...
20170215 18:20:04< zookeeper> other
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20170215 18:35:14< Marcgal> Can we force female sex in NAMED_LOYAL_UNIT macro?
20170215 18:35:20< Marcgal> I suppose we can’t
20170215 18:35:39< celticminstrel> Technically possible by augmenting the tag.
20170215 18:35:48< celticminstrel> [+unit]gender=female
20170215 18:36:04< Marcgal> Will check this out, thanks
20170215 18:36:17< celticminstrel> That goes directly after the macro.
20170215 18:36:20< DeFender1031> Isn't "forc[ing] female sex" just rape? :P
20170215 18:36:23< celticminstrel> (And needs to be closed as well.)
20170215 18:36:37 * celticminstrel smacks DeFender1031 
20170215 18:36:55< DeFender1031> Sorry, the way it was phrased was asking for it.
20170215 18:37:05< celticminstrel> Not funny.
20170215 18:37:06< DeFender1031> Er... no pun intended. (I'm a horrible person.)
20170215 18:37:28< DeFender1031> sorry.
20170215 18:39:00< zookeeper> i'm not sure if it's funny, but it's not decisively un-funny either
20170215 18:39:26< zookeeper> but the phrasing was certainly asking for it, so i'm glad someone else beat me to it!
20170215 18:41:51< celticminstrel> :|
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20170215 18:49:03< Marcgal> ssssakkkeeee… UNMAKE_HERO does remove the loyal overlay…
20170215 18:49:18< celticminstrel> Yay?
20170215 18:49:30< celticminstrel> Oh, I imagined a "not" in there.
20170215 18:49:36< celticminstrel> MAKE_LOYAL then.
20170215 18:51:07< Marcgal> No, it’s weird. It only does this to Hylas. Plus, I screwed sth else… 
20170215 18:51:17< Marcgal> Still, thanks for the macro, Hylas will need it.
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20170215 18:54:10< Marcgal> Just FYI: "Macro/File 'MAKE_LOYAL' is missing" ;/ Not a big deal anyway, I should be able to deal with this by looking at MAKE_HERO implementation
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20170215 20:20:30< Marcgal> zookeeper: https://www.diffchecker.com/TzbQuqGo (also updated links in the forums post)
20170215 20:21:02< Marcgal> The new version of this scenario, that requires mages to hug the barrier, fixes overlays and makes all mages loyal and named
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20170215 21:53:14< zookeeper> Marcgal, great, thanks
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--- Log closed Thu Feb 16 00:00:27 2017