--- Log opened Mon Mar 06 00:00:17 2017
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20170306 01:04:28< celticminstrel> zookeeper, it's probable that the themes system will totally change after 1.14 anyway.
20170306 01:04:52< celticminstrel> So it doesn't seem like a big deal to remove the ability to theme the map edges.
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20170306 01:22:08< XHawk87> Hi. I am currently working on updating the Wesband add-on for BfW 1.12.6, but I have run into a problem involving shared vision with allies. It seems that despite having share_maps=yes and share_view=yes in the side tags, and all of them having the same team_name, they don't share vision. Not fog, nor shroud updates between the allied players. Does anyone know anything about this? I have searched the wiki and forum
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20170306 01:34:22< vultraz_iOS> XHawk87: are those keys  in both side tags?
20170306 01:34:42< XHawk87> vultraz_iOS: they are in all 4, yes
20170306 01:34:48< vultraz_iOS> hm
20170306 01:34:58< vultraz_iOS> i don't recall a bug with that in 1.12...
20170306 01:35:13< vultraz_iOS> but then again, you might be better off porting for 1.13
20170306 01:35:35< vultraz_iOS> we're a few months out from 1.14, so if you put a lot of work into a 1.12 port now you'll have to do it over in a few months
20170306 01:36:01< XHawk87> oh, thanks for the heads-up. I'll definitely do that then, it might even fix this issue
20170306 01:43:56< vultraz_iOS> possibly, possibly
20170306 01:44:08< vultraz_iOS> keep in mind those keys have changed in 1.13, tho
20170306 01:44:37< XHawk87> a single share_vision=all?
20170306 01:44:46< vultraz_iOS> yes
20170306 01:45:14< XHawk87> I'll make sure to update that. thanks
20170306 01:45:37< vultraz_iOS> hope it works :)
20170306 01:46:07< vultraz_iOS> though i have no idea why it didn't in 1.12, since it sounds like you were doing it right
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20170306 01:46:24< vultraz_iOS> and im pretty sure ive used the same code myself
20170306 01:46:25< vultraz_iOS> so :/
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20170306 01:46:43< XHawk87> yeh, it was quite puzzling
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20170306 02:07:51< gfgtdf> XHawk87: did you put share_view/maps=yes in both sides? (reciving and scrouing side)
20170306 02:08:19< gfgtdf> XHawk87: also note that it won't wokr if the scouting side has fog/shorud disabled
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20170306 02:09:39< XHawk87> gfgtdf: all 4 sides have share_view=yes and share_maps=yes, and fog=yes and shroud=yes
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20170306 02:41:43< gfgtdf> XHawk87: are you making a mp or sp scenario ?
20170306 02:42:39< gfgtdf> XHawk87: you could take a look at the savefile and inspect those sides (in [snapshot]) maybe some other code changes the values of fog/share_vision... etc
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20170306 02:44:16< XHawk87> I am updating Wesband from BfW 1.9.14. It is multiplayer, up to 4 human players
20170306 02:44:22< XHawk87> thanks, I'll try looking at a savefile
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20170306 03:01:36< XHawk87> gfgtdf: your suspicion was correct, the savefile clearly shows that none of the sides have share_maps or share_view enabled. I guess I'll have to try searching for where they might be getting changed
20170306 03:03:03< vultraz_iOS> oh, geez
20170306 03:03:06< vultraz_iOS> from 1.9?
20170306 03:03:09< vultraz_iOS> much work, have you
20170306 03:09:15< XHawk87> vultraz_iOS: even more to get it to 1.13. I haven't been able to get it to recognise that it is anything other than a normal random map so far
20170306 03:09:46< vultraz_iOS> well, better to do the work now than get it to 1.12 and then again for 1.13 :)
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20170306 03:13:26< XHawk87> I checked the logs and I am not seeing any problems. any major changes to how random map-based scenarios work in 1.13?
20170306 03:13:37< gfgtdf> XHawk87: yes
20170306 03:14:35< gfgtdf> XHawk87: first, in 1.13 map_generation= will always just generate the map while scenario_generation= will replace the whole scenario
20170306 03:15:38< gfgtdf> XHawk87: also you coudl consier using map_gernation=default and then use the spaceil location genreated by the map instead of scneario generation dpeends on what you what to do
20170306 03:15:50< gfgtdf> XHawk87: also wesnoth 1.13 supports new lua map generation
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20170306 03:18:43< gfgtdf> XHawk87: also you might want to use [campaign] + [sceanrio] liek in sp instead of [multiplayer] for your campaign, again this depends on what type of campaign you have
20170306 03:22:40< XHawk87> gfgtdf: I don't know if you've heard of/played it before, but it is Wesband by Ken_Oh/Exasperation/Dovolente/TL. its a rogue-like RPG campaign with multiple randomly generated dungeons, based on ZAngband
20170306 03:23:40< gfgtdf> XHawk87: if its eariler  than 1.10 than i have never played it and if its easier than 1.12 i wont reemember it even if i played it.
20170306 03:23:50< pydsigner> I remember Wesband
20170306 03:24:04< pydsigner> XHawk87: you're trying to port Wesband?
20170306 03:24:11< gfgtdf> s/easier/eariler
20170306 03:24:33< XHawk87> pydsigner: yeh, I thought I'd give it a go. I got it mostly working in 1.12, but 1.13 is bit trickier
20170306 03:24:59< pydsigner> Yeah and you're going to run into random generation fails and lua errors
20170306 03:25:18< pydsigner> I remember having those in the last Wesnoth they released it for
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20170306 03:27:02< XHawk87> pydsigner: I didn't notice any generation fails in 1.9.14, but I managed to fix all of the lua errors I have come across so far. they were mainly to do with it trying to get minions to drop gold when they weren't carrying any. though I did get a generation fail in 1.12
20170306 03:31:15< pydsigner> By generation fail I mostly mean having a map that's broken
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20170306 03:31:36< pydsigner> It was possible sometimes to get a map with an inaccessible enemy
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20170306 03:33:25< XHawk87> pydsigner: really? I have not come across that yet. I played a troll shaman solo down to dungeon level 19 in 1.9 without that issue coming up. However, in 1.12 the main village failed to spawn in one of my tests, and worked fine the next attempt without making any changes to the code
20170306 03:34:24< pydsigner> Yeah see you might have to go further than that
20170306 03:34:43< pydsigner> I think I might have played one team down to level 40 or something
20170306 03:35:07< XHawk87> pydsigner: are there a finite number of levels?
20170306 03:36:10< pydsigner> N
20170306 03:36:12< pydsigner> * No
20170306 03:36:22< pydsigner> Afaik anyways
20170306 03:36:38< pydsigner> You die or quit
20170306 03:38:06< XHawk87> I wondered about that as I noticed new dungeon themes appearing that I hadn't seen at the higher levels. it may be that just some of the themes are affected. I'll see if I can find that issue after I get it working
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20170306 03:42:48< pydsigner> I'm guessing it's just some of the layouts
20170306 03:43:00< pydsigner> Maybe it was even a generator bug that was fixed ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
20170306 03:44:05< XHawk87> look like switching map_generation to scenario_generation did the trick. its funny to think that a new stack of Lua errors is a sign of progress
20170306 03:46:07< pydsigner> Glad someone is porting it though
20170306 03:46:42< pydsigner> BTW, depending on how much work you want to do, it might be good to fix the deal where your henchmen eventually level up into chaotics
20170306 03:48:39< XHawk87> chaotics? do they break the time of day system in some way?
20170306 03:49:22< pydsigner> It affects their magic and stuff
20170306 03:49:35< pydsigner> Also if you have lawful leadership that sucks
20170306 03:50:35< XHawk87> ah, I see. I haven't noticed that happen yet, not that I have used them all that much. in my last couple of games I have been greedy and wanted all the XP for my hero :P
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20170306 03:55:08< pydsigner> Consider that you can get a 50-10 Iron Mauler
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20170306 06:01:04< irker006> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master 4a2711ad42fd / data/gui/window/addon_manager.cfg: Addon Manager: temporarily disable background until I get a better image https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/4a2711ad42fd1aed9b8f5e3ed164f70dab7466f7
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20170306 06:23:21< celticminstrel> Does that mean you couldn't get ADJUST_ALPHA to work?
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20170306 12:02:20< zookeeper> hrhm, i could also make the borders be limited to 90 degree angles like the standard edge borders...
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20170306 17:15:57< DeFender> zookeeper, if you're talking about the fake map edge, I kinda like that it can be more abstract
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20170306 17:43:58< zookeeper> DeFender, yeah, it just bugs me a bit if you can't create the same kind of sharp corners as in the standard border.
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20170306 17:53:43< zookeeper> it's possible i can combine the two approaches so you can have sharp corners but long diagonal lines will actually be diagonal, but i'm not sure.
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20170306 18:10:38< XHawk87> does anyone know of a temporary workaround for the bug in 1.13.6 where setting a player slot to 'Empty' results in a random leader being created for them anyway?
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20170306 18:32:41< Shiki> XHawk87, maybe killing that leader in a prestart event?
20170306 18:33:06< XHawk87> Shiki: how do I tell which leaders to kill though?
20170306 18:33:23< Shiki> filter for the side an canrecruit=yes
20170306 18:33:38< Shiki> *and
20170306 18:33:54< XHawk87> I don't know which sides players will select as Empty
20170306 18:36:05< zookeeper> maybe use :inspect to check whether anything stored by [store_side] could be used to detect those kinds of sides
20170306 18:36:49< XHawk87> thanks zookeeper, I'll take a look
20170306 18:36:57< zookeeper> or maybe the leaders themselves get normal random id's whereas player-controlled leaders have the player name as the id, or something
20170306 18:37:29< zookeeper> in which case the normal random id's are probably detectable (check that it contains the unit type name, and a -, etc)
20170306 18:37:30< XHawk87> I think they do, but I am not sure how to differentiate between player names and randomly generated names
20170306 18:38:06< XHawk87> ah, I see what you mean, I'll check
20170306 18:38:11< Shiki> the controller key in store_side looks interesting
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20170306 18:54:02< DeFender> zookeeper, could you not set it up that if the border is used at right angles it comes out looking straight? What does it currently look like if you, for instance, parallell rows or columns of it?
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20170306 18:58:59< zookeeper> DeFender, well right now it just looks like a mess because i'm trying to figure out how i should write the rules to allow both diagonals and sharp corners to work nicely together, so sorry, no pics :p
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20170306 19:00:06< DeFender> how DID it look at the point when everything was working?
20170306 19:00:31< DeFender> zig-zaggy?
20170306 19:00:59< zookeeper> as in the previous pic you saw
20170306 19:01:07< zookeeper> no sharp corners
20170306 19:01:22< DeFender> that didn't really have much straight across or straight down though
20170306 19:01:39< zookeeper> umm, sure it did
20170306 19:02:02< DeFender> oh... yeah... it does, doesn't it.
20170306 19:02:24< DeFender> I had trouble noticing it because... the... um... corners... aren't... umm... yeah...
20170306 19:02:31< zookeeper> exactly :p
20170306 19:02:39< DeFender> :P
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20170306 19:03:51< DeFender> I think I may have inadvertently proved your point.
20170306 19:04:51< DeFender> btw, i might suggest a different alternative
20170306 19:05:26< zookeeper> go ahead
20170306 19:05:27< DeFender> instead of trying to make the face corners right-angled, perhaps just make the real courners rounded?
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20170306 19:05:50< DeFender> fake*
20170306 19:06:08< zookeeper> ah, i considered that, but the problem is that you get _different_ kind of rounding in different corners, depending on the odd/even layout
20170306 19:06:34< DeFender> ah, that would be disconcerting, yeah
20170306 19:06:49< zookeeper> or, at least, making the rounding be the same in all corners would be no easier than sharp corners
20170306 19:06:56< DeFender> right.
20170306 19:07:06< DeFender> actually, i see that in this screenshot
20170306 19:07:42< DeFender> the bottom corners of the lower blob are angled differently than the bottom corners of the upper blob.
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20170306 19:10:19< DeFender> i'm not entirely sure that's a problem though
20170306 19:12:06< zookeeper> looks unacceptably silly in my eyes :p
20170306 19:15:47< DeFender> I'm not going to argue with you. Terrains invariably come out looking far cleaner when you work on them, even in cases where I think that what's there already is "good enough". If you think it's worth it, that's good enough for me.
20170306 19:16:18< DeFender> Good luck, I hope you do manage to find a way to make the corners play nice.
20170306 19:19:12< zookeeper> it's (almost) always possible to brute-force the right solution by just writing a big enough pile of distinct rules, but it's messy and hard to work with afterwards so a lot of the work is about finding a clean and as simple as possible way to do it
20170306 19:20:03< zookeeper> (which usually doesn't end up actually being simple and clean... just a bit more so than the alternatives)
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20170306 19:56:18< DeFender> right
20170306 20:00:45< DeFender> there's a very high exponential degree of complexity inherent in drawing terrain graphics. Every permutation of every kind of hex next to every other kind of hex and surrounded by other permutations of other hexes next to other hexes needs to be accounted for.
20170306 20:01:07< DeFender> it's a wonder there's even a system as workable as there is.
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20170306 20:04:34< zookeeper> yeah. in this case, i can work out how to make the rules for drawing sharp corners and diagonal lines... but then the problems come in when they also need to mesh with the borders at the map edges, which also need to be drawn with separate rules
20170306 20:06:50< DeFender> I have a feeling the edges would be easier to draw if the engine somehow gave a way to specify "nonexistent hex because it's off the map" in the rules
20170306 20:07:57< zookeeper> it does
20170306 20:08:02< DeFender> ?????
20170306 20:08:05< DeFender> it does?!
20170306 20:08:45< DeFender> I had my own issue at a map edge with some graphics a while back, and I don't recall a way to specify that.
20170306 20:08:49< DeFender> I looked.
20170306 20:09:00< zookeeper> set flag foo on every hex and then non-existent hexes won't match on has_flag=foo
20170306 20:09:30< DeFender> ah. that's... not entirely what I meant.
20170306 20:09:33< zookeeper> possibly type=* might work too, haven't checked
20170306 20:10:07< DeFender> but I guess that would work.
20170306 20:11:57< zookeeper> i did make the engine set a flag on all of the border hexes though, makes things a whole lot simpler
20170306 20:12:09< DeFender> hmm
20170306 20:12:28< Aginor> hey
20170306 20:12:39< Aginor> I had a another look at the hotkeys last night
20170306 20:12:54< Aginor> and I may have a solution for the : vs ; issue
20170306 20:13:06< zookeeper> oh?
20170306 20:13:16< Aginor> it needs a wee bit more work from my end but it should be easy enough
20170306 20:13:39< Aginor> I'm adding the text events to it so it can pick up on unicode characters
20170306 20:14:15< Aginor> so technically someone could then have a multi-byte character as a hotkey, but I'm taking the lazy approach and breaking that
20170306 20:14:28< Aginor> although there's no reason to when I think about it
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20170306 20:20:50< zookeeper> well, i don't understand the implications of what you're saying but it'd be great to have that fixed anyway :p
20170306 20:26:37< Aginor> "it's easier when it doesn't have to be SDL1.2 compatible"
20170306 20:27:44< Aginor> TL;DR: using the proper unicode input mechanisms allows us to have composed characters as hotkeys, which ":" is
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20170306 23:32:47< Shiki> how is [poison] implemented? 
20170306 23:33:09< Shiki> In abilities is the macro with the tag, but where is the rest?
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--- Log closed Tue Mar 07 00:00:40 2017