--- Log opened Sun Mar 12 00:00:31 2017
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20170312 00:14:08< irker033> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master 84519e93247f / src/display.cpp: Fixed unused variable https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/84519e93247f84d0dc2203667015a54dd5235b7c
20170312 00:21:39< zookeeper> ah, indeed
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20170312 01:17:43< irker033> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master 7ed68f2e4241 / data/gui/widget/toggle_panel_default.cfg images/dialogs/selection-background.png: GUI2: experimental new design for toggle panel selected/focused states https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/7ed68f2e4241292911ba458b16dbfc8d72b48f9f
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20170312 01:18:47< vultraz_iOS> feedback welcome
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20170312 01:19:24< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#12886 (master - 84519e9 : Charles Dang): The build was fixed.
20170312 01:19:24< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/210162278
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20170312 01:43:20< vultraz_iOS> celticminstrel: https://gna.org/bugs/?25586
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20170312 02:00:54< celticminstrel> vultraz_iOS: Any chance of a screenshot for that commit?
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20170312 02:16:20< vultraz_iOS> https://1drv.ms/i/s!As9hRC_GxjKKpEtJifX9rlWKRbkx
20170312 02:17:02< vultraz_iOS> i saw the design in a section of the Dota 2 Watch tab and i figured id give it a shot here
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20170312 02:23:43< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#12887 (master - 7ed68f2 : Charles Dang): The build was fixed.
20170312 02:23:43< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/210169581
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20170312 04:36:11< celticminstrel> Not sure I like vultraz_iOS applying ideas from DotA to Wesnoth... that screenshot does look fine though, apart from the missing scrollbar buttons, so maybe it worked out this time.
20170312 04:36:54< vultraz_iOS> what you see is only the final iteration of about an hour's (or more) worth of tweaking 
20170312 04:37:06< vultraz_iOS> so do rest assured I don't just throw stuff together
20170312 04:39:02< celticminstrel> But you did remove the scrollbar buttons despite multiple protests. Twice, even.
20170312 04:40:35< vultraz_iOS> I said it was an experiment to see how users react in the next release
20170312 04:41:00< vultraz_iOS> if they want it back the code is all still there and can be restored easily
20170312 04:41:20< celticminstrel> And if you don't you're going to say "hey they don't want it" and refuse to restore it?
20170312 04:41:56< vultraz_iOS> and if I don't want?
20170312 04:42:07< vultraz_iOS> I prefer it this way, but I'm leaving it up to the players
20170312 04:42:29< celticminstrel> ^if they don't
20170312 04:42:35< celticminstrel> Somehow used the wrong pronoun there.
20170312 04:43:00< celticminstrel> You could always make it an advanced pref, too. That way everyone wins.
20170312 04:44:02< vultraz_iOS> that's a possibility but I think that's a clear case of OAB
20170312 04:45:01< celticminstrel> I will admit that the advent of scroll wheels makes the arrow buttons less important than they used to be, but I still find it annoying that MacOS has no way to restore them.
20170312 04:45:24< vultraz_iOS> do you use them?
20170312 04:46:00< celticminstrel> I don't remember if I used them in Wesnoth.
20170312 04:46:25< vultraz_iOS> no, ever
20170312 04:46:27< vultraz_iOS> anywhere
20170312 04:46:48< celticminstrel> Well, I don't use them on MacOS because they don't exist anymore.
20170312 04:46:57< celticminstrel> What are the chances these days of someone having a mouse without a scroll wheel, I wonder...
20170312 04:47:25< celticminstrel> I might use them on Windows sometimes, not sure.
20170312 04:47:25< vultraz_iOS> when I was originally constructing my minimal scrollbar design, shadowm told me I should keep them for touch users
20170312 04:47:40< vultraz_iOS> however, now that I have a touchscreen I have found them really useless
20170312 04:48:58< vultraz_iOS> like, really
20170312 04:49:04< celticminstrel> I don't think I've ever missed them on my iPhone. I don't even mind the way the scrollbar is invisible except when you're scrolling on the iPhone. On the Mac that annoys me, so I disabled it. (I really hope they didn't remove that option.)
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20170312 06:08:04< irker814> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master d5a3878e8eda / data/themes/_initial.cfg: Fixed slight button overlap in replay controls https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/d5a3878e8eda02806cef501476d809317a03f5ec
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20170312 08:44:32< irker814> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master b79f04cf718b / images/icons/addons/ (12 files): Fixed 2-pixel offset in most addon button images https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/b79f04cf718bb3782622aef123fbb05b450cf7dc
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20170312 11:25:31< irker814> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master bd3079cce68d / src/gui/dialogs/addon/ (manager.cpp manager.hpp): Addon Manager: some code cleanup/simplification https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/bd3079cce68d7e94852ac2d2fcf206401b541da3
20170312 11:28:14< zookeeper> vultraz, so if you go by "wait and see what the players say", aren't you going to do something about the faction selection UI (the >>, etc) since the feedback about it seemed to be negative?
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20170312 14:06:57< irker814> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master 7f11aeb60cbe / src/font/standard_colors.cpp: Convert various standard color definitions from hex to decimal https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/7f11aeb60cbeb3bc352607fd83475fa29909a703
20170312 14:07:00< irker814> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master 2e1555c4bf61 / src/gui/widgets/addon_list.cpp: Addon List: use color_t definitions for colorizing status strings instead of har https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/2e1555c4bf619949695bd0485f5df0d94e2c270b
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20170312 14:33:21< celmin|sleep> Why would you do that.
20170312 14:33:47< celmin|sleep> I mean, it's not like it matters, but it's utterly pointless.
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20170312 14:36:56< celticminstrel> (7f11aeb60cbe)
20170312 14:49:34< DeFender1031> consistency isn't pointless
20170312 14:50:02< DeFender1031> ultimately, the code should standardize on one format for any given type of information.
20170312 14:50:25< DeFender1031> that seems to be what he's dong
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20170312 14:51:22< irker814> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master 81e38dedb93c / src/gui/widgets/scroll_label.cpp: Scroll Label: fix WML use_markup key not working with this widget https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/81e38dedb93cc09ca2931d90cdabf18d18589f7a
20170312 14:51:25< irker814> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master faaa412dc578 / data/gui/macros/_initial.cfg src/font/standard_colors.cpp: Tweaked standard "gold" color to give it slightly more contrast https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/faaa412dc578f90801c5ca3b7d1881dd5f005edd
20170312 14:52:53< celticminstrel> I suppose there's a point there.
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20170312 16:44:03< pydsigner> Isn't hexadecimal more of the standard for representing colors?
20170312 16:44:24< zookeeper> depends on context
20170312 16:44:47< zookeeper> AFAICT no one ever passes colors from human-to-human in hexadecimal form
20170312 16:46:39< zookeeper> also it's not like you pick color values in an image editing app in hexadecimal
20170312 16:46:49< zookeeper> or do any channel adjustment stuff with hexadecimal values
20170312 16:47:34< celticminstrel> zookeeper: I suspect that's not true? The rrggbb hex format used by HTML is quite common.
20170312 16:47:52< zookeeper> that's the one context it's common in
20170312 16:48:30< zookeeper> can you name another? i can't
20170312 16:48:35< celticminstrel> GIMP also supports that format.
20170312 16:48:45< celticminstrel> I dunno if it's commonly used by GIMPers though.
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20170312 16:52:52< zookeeper> if you want to represent rgb colors in human-readable form, then yes please do decimal. i bet 99% of people who have anything to do with graphics are more comfortable reading 55,89,37 than #5f580a.
20170312 16:58:44< zookeeper> the only thing hexadecimal has really going for it is that it's a bit more compact. it might be more convenient for someone who's worked with html/css all their lives, but beyond that...
20170312 17:01:16< zookeeper> and that's not to say we shouldn't use hex sometimes, for example the team color definitions are certainly less of an utter mess that way. good luck making a list of 200 color values look nice otherwise.
20170312 17:02:16< celticminstrel> I think the implementation can't actually handle them as decima.
20170312 17:02:19< celticminstrel> ^+l
20170312 17:04:17< zookeeper> well sure, "it's not supported" is certainly a fine argument in most cases :P
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20170312 17:33:36< DeFender1031> [3/12/2017 6:49:03 pm] <zookeeper> AFAICT no one ever passes colors from human-to-human in hexadecimal form <-- why is it that so often, you say "nobody ever does that" about things that I and those around me do quite regularly?
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20170312 17:34:25< celticminstrel> XD
20170312 17:35:47< zookeeper> DeFender1031, firstly because when i say "ever" i usually don't mean it literally, and secondly because i try to prefix those kinds of statements with qualifiers that exonerate me anyway? :p
20170312 17:38:04< DeFender1031> apology accepted. :P
20170312 17:40:16< zookeeper> i made no false statements, i shall not apologize :p
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20170312 17:43:39< DeFender1031> Seriously though, in terms of colors I DO use hex quite often, but there are certain cases where I prefer decimal.
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20170312 17:46:32< DeFender1031> Mostly, if I'm doing css or minimalistic icons or something where the paletter is relatively small and limited to half- or quarter-colors, I prefer hex, as it's easier to remember and work with "C0" as "three-quarters color" than 192. If I'm doing something more abstract and not limited to low-order fractions, then yeah, decimal is easier to acertain at a glance.
20170312 17:46:46< DeFender1031> palette*
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20170312 17:58:54< pydsigner> zookeeper: I'm not so sure that decimal colors are as popular as you think
20170312 17:59:46< pydsigner> I only use decimal when hex isn't accepted
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20170312 18:01:55< zookeeper> pydsigner, what sort of graphics/visual stuff do you do then?
20170312 18:06:38 * Yaiyan sees 192 as 75% more easily than C0
20170312 18:06:52< Yaiyan> My first reaction to C0 is probably closer to 224 or so
20170312 18:07:23< vultraz_iOS> discussing my commit, I see
20170312 18:08:54< DeFender1031> vultraz_iOS, indirectly, yes
20170312 18:09:24< vultraz_iOS> it's purely for consistency and the fact that its easier to read in decimal 
20170312 18:09:36< vultraz_iOS> and the fact that you can put that into a site like rgb.to and get a color
20170312 18:09:40< vultraz_iOS> whereas you cannot with hex
20170312 18:10:47< DeFender1031> vultraz_iOS, https://cdn.meme.am/cache/instances/folder297/66515297.jpg
20170312 18:11:07< vultraz_iOS> :P
20170312 18:11:20< DeFender1031> "prevalent opinion" might have been more apt in that context. :P
20170312 18:11:49< vultraz_iOS> well i actually tried putting the hex trio into rgb.to and didn't get anything
20170312 18:11:57< vultraz_iOS> html notation works perfectly, of course
20170312 18:11:58< Yaiyan> rgb.to accepts hex and rgb :p
20170312 18:12:03< DeFender1031> yeah, your second use of the word was fine
20170312 18:12:18< DeFender1031> assuming that the information presented is correct.
20170312 18:12:24< vultraz_iOS> so obviously if I put #ffffff I'd get a color
20170312 18:12:32< Yaiyan> Which you do...
20170312 18:12:33< vultraz_iOS> but it gives me nothing for 0x00, 0x00, 0x00
20170312 18:12:34< vultraz_iOS> say
20170312 18:12:36< DeFender1031> "easier to X" is generally opinion, not fact.
20170312 18:12:54< Yaiyan> Is 0x00, 0x00, 0x00 regularly used for colours at all?
20170312 18:13:05< vultraz_iOS> no idea
20170312 18:13:16< vultraz_iOS> that was the format of those color definitions prio to my commit
20170312 18:13:26< Yaiyan> Ah, that's definitely confusing
20170312 18:13:32< DeFender1031> anyway, I'm in no way against the change, btw. I'm all for consistency, and I'm also of the opinion that in the contexts where colors are generally used in wesnoth, decimal IS easier to read.
20170312 18:13:49< DeFender1031> ??????????
20170312 18:14:04< DeFender1031> a trio of "0x??" for colors?! Who DOES that?!
20170312 18:14:32< vultraz_iOS> did you not look at the commit
20170312 18:14:33< vultraz_iOS> https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/7f11aeb60cbeb3bc352607fd83475fa29909a703
20170312 18:14:41< JyrkiVesterinen> Well, it was done because color_t has a constructor from three integers.
20170312 18:14:42< DeFender1031> even when I DO prefer hex, that's not exactly what I mean.
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20170312 18:15:08< vultraz_iOS> JyrkiVesterinen: it;s been like this for ages
20170312 18:15:09< JyrkiVesterinen> The only question is whether to represent those three integers as hex or decimal.
20170312 18:15:10< DeFender1031> vultraz_iOS, didn't bother, assumed I knew more or less what a commit changing a hex color to a decimal one would look like :P
20170312 18:15:11< vultraz_iOS> pre-color_t
20170312 18:15:22< JyrkiVesterinen> And indeed, decimal is much better here.
20170312 18:15:49< vultraz_iOS> DeFender1031: I can see what your comments mean, now :P
20170312 18:16:01< DeFender1031> vultraz_iOS, that said, I suppose I should never assume I know what existing wesnoth code being fixed looks like prior to the fix.
20170312 18:16:21< vultraz_iOS> you're thinking "#3ccdac" when it was actually "0xDD, 0xDD, 0xDD"
20170312 18:16:26< DeFender1031> this isn't the first time that this sort of thing has happened.
20170312 18:16:33< DeFender1031> yeah, exactly
20170312 18:16:49< vultraz_iOS> and indeed, rgb.to would accept the former
20170312 18:16:53< vultraz_iOS> it's the latter it does not 
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20170312 18:18:16< DeFender1031> At the risk of making a zookeeperesque statement, I'm going to say that the latter isn't something I can imagine any sane person ever doing.
20170312 18:18:34< vultraz_iOS> wesnoth code is full of such mysteries 
20170312 18:19:54< DeFender1031> I know. I'm sure I've said before that wesnoth dev is sometimes more like archaeology than engineering.
20170312 18:21:28< vultraz_iOS> well, the older parts
20170312 18:21:51< vultraz_iOS> also, be glad this is 1.13 not 1.12 :P
20170312 18:22:23< DeFender1031> "Look at what I found between the strata of text rendering and random generation! Apparently the ancients believed that it was good luck to build strings as arrays of ints cast to a char pointer!"
20170312 18:23:01< vultraz_iOS> xD
20170312 18:23:26< vultraz_iOS> speaking of strings, anything new with your string utils refactor?
20170312 18:26:36< DeFender1031> Haven't had the time, I'm really up against a deadline with my day job. I currently have three weeks left to restructure several poorly-organized database tables, update all the code using those tables to be orgaized properly, make several new interface widgets, and add two new high-level features based on all those changes. If that's not done in three weeks, some very very bad things will happen.
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20170312 18:28:09< irker110> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master 441b0f769184 / data/gui/widget/toggle_panel_default.cfg: GUI2: made new toggle panel selection style a separate definition (needs deploym https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/441b0f769184022e05c828436b0187803714ae56
20170312 18:28:56< DeFender1031> Either way, in three weeks, I should begin to have some more free time on my hands. I'm just hoping I'm not, shall we say, forcibly given free time.
20170312 18:29:03< vultraz_iOS> heh
20170312 18:29:06< vultraz_iOS> no hurry
20170312 18:30:22< celticminstrel> I'm not against the change either, just question that it was worth the effort put into it.
20170312 18:30:28< vultraz_iOS> yes
20170312 18:30:39< vultraz_iOS> since I'm working with them :P
20170312 18:30:48< DeFender1031> My friends think I'm crazy for having a hobby that's not much different from what I do for a living... At times like this, I wonder if they might be right :P
20170312 18:32:39< vultraz_iOS> celticminstrel: the addons manager is ready for release, so please do try to fix the remaining lua issues assigned to you before the weekend
20170312 18:32:45< vultraz_iOS> so we can do 1.13.7
20170312 18:32:55< celticminstrel> [Mar 12@2:18:16pm] DeFender1031: At the risk of making a zookeeperesque statement, I'm going to say that the latter isn't something I can imagine any sane person ever doing.
20170312 18:32:56< celticminstrel> Personally I think it's totally sane. Might've even done it myself somewhere.
20170312 18:33:12< celticminstrel> vultraz_iOS: I can try...
20170312 18:33:36< vultraz_iOS> ignore the titlescreen dialog thing
20170312 18:33:40< celticminstrel> IIRC there were three Lua issues?
20170312 18:34:18< vultraz_iOS> https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?25555 is marked IN Progress but sigfurd says it's actually fixed
20170312 18:34:35< vultraz_iOS> https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?25558 is not fixed
20170312 18:34:43< vultraz_iOS> https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?25586 neither
20170312 18:34:47< celticminstrel> The issue reported in 25555 is indeed fixed, but apparently the tag doesn't work correctly.
20170312 18:35:06< vultraz_iOS> https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?25550 neither
20170312 18:35:18< celticminstrel> Right, I have that one open at this very moment.
20170312 18:35:54< celticminstrel> Oh, I see, he was mistaken about it not working correctly.
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20170312 18:37:58< vultraz_iOS> indeed
20170312 18:38:50< DeFender1031> celticminstrel, see? It turns out it WAS zookeeperesque. :P
20170312 18:39:15< celticminstrel> Oh yeah, did I fix the MicroAI issue yet...
20170312 18:40:08< celticminstrel> Looks like the answer is "no".
20170312 18:40:14< celticminstrel> But also "yes".
20170312 18:40:27< celticminstrel> The Lua errors are gone but something else is wrong.
20170312 18:43:46< celticminstrel> Seems there's still a flaw in the logic...
20170312 18:57:22< celticminstrel> What is get_in_basis_N_NE for?
20170312 18:57:35< celticminstrel> (In map_location)
20170312 19:01:22< celticminstrel> And rotate_right_around_center?
20170312 19:03:11< celticminstrel> The first sounds like it might be an implementation detail that shouldn't be exposed to the Lua API.
20170312 19:03:55< irker110> wesnoth: Celtic Minstrel wesnoth:master d84a52dc45c3 / data/lua/wml/animate_unit.lua: Fix incorrect API table name in [animate_unit] (GNA25550) https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/d84a52dc45c37ae9c29ab3541ccb16a77194055f
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20170312 19:11:57< celticminstrel> Aha.
20170312 19:12:10< celticminstrel> It's including the dot in comp_type.
20170312 19:15:44< irker110> wesnoth: Celtic Minstrel wesnoth:master 070e4b6f8c7a / data/lua/wml-tags.lua: Address missing component error in [modify_ai] (GNA25558) https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/070e4b6f8c7aa68346324a0f4e16b50795b061f4
20170312 19:19:01< irker110> wesnoth: Celtic Minstrel wesnoth:master 72f9a4f270cf / data/lua/wml-tags.lua: Fix [heal_unit] not defaulting to amount=full (GNA25586) https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/72f9a4f270cf3087d07482eb58c50c7acfa5ae26
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20170312 19:22:06< celticminstrel> Not sure on the usefulness of the vector ops being exposed to the Lua API, honestly... though might as well if the game actually uses them...
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20170312 20:58:10< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#12895 (master - 070e4b6 : Celtic Minstrel): The build has errored.
20170312 20:58:10< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/210320279
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20170312 20:59:56< celticminstrel> :(
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20170312 21:34:37< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#12896 (master - 72f9a4f : Celtic Minstrel): The build was broken.
20170312 21:34:37< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/210320874
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20170312 21:34:50< celticminstrel> D:
20170312 21:37:28< celticminstrel> Weird... that commit is the heal_unit commit, and yet the breakages are in modify_ai... :|
20170312 21:37:44< celticminstrel> Although...
20170312 21:38:32< celticminstrel> Yeah okay, the failures did occur in the previous build too...
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20170312 23:19:16< zookeeper> gfgtdf, this is the wiki account procedure: https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=43815
20170312 23:19:30< zookeeper> not "ask zookeeper" because then i have to ask them for the details
20170312 23:20:16< gfgtdf> zookeeper: oh ok i just saw here https://wiki.wesnoth.org/index.php?title=Special:RecentChanges&limit=100&days=100 that you crearted a an account so i assumed you were the one to ask for making wiki accounts.
20170312 23:21:02< celticminstrel> Note that Vultraz can also create accounts.
20170312 23:21:02< zookeeper> i just usually (?) am the one who ends up creating them currently
20170312 23:21:20< celticminstrel> I have no idea who else. I could probably find out though.
20170312 23:21:31< celticminstrel> There should be a page on the wiki that lists all the sysops.
20170312 23:21:40< zookeeper> i see no reason why anyone would care
20170312 23:21:54< zookeeper> all you're doing is giving the impression that it's relevant information to know
20170312 23:21:54< celticminstrel> Someone who wants to create an account might care. :P
20170312 23:22:13< zookeeper> why would they care
20170312 23:22:27< gfgtdf> zookeeper: should i edit that post ?
20170312 23:22:37< zookeeper> gfgtdf, wouldn't hurt
20170312 23:23:49< celticminstrel> Oh nice, I didn't realize you could target a PM at a group rather than an individual.
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20170312 23:24:51< zookeeper> unrelated: it'd be good if someone could somehow update old svn links in the wiki
20170312 23:24:57< zookeeper> i realized that when looking at this: https://wiki.wesnoth.org/index.php?title=Geography_of_Wesnoth&curid=1572&diff=58210&oldid=56959 
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20170312 23:26:45< zookeeper> how you would actually find all of them, i don't know. i'm just assuming that the search feature won't be helpful.
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--- Log closed Mon Mar 13 00:00:41 2017