--- Log opened Fri Mar 17 00:00:42 2017
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20170317 00:05:21< mattsc> Hey, all.
20170317 00:05:56< irker809> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth:master 930fb368c525 / projectfiles/Xcode/Wesnoth.xcodeproj/project.pbxproj: Update Xcode project https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/930fb368c52517aad615e6bbe3ba6bf771a2fb23
20170317 00:06:04< mattsc> celticminstrel, ancestral, vultraz_iOS: ^
20170317 00:06:18< celticminstrel> Oh, thanks.
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20170317 00:28:44< celticminstrel> A lot of new/deleted/moved files, huh.
20170317 00:31:17< celticminstrel> Oh right, vultraz_iOS, deselect_unit (PR 954) needs merging at some point, probably sooner rather than later, though I wanted to check something in it too.
20170317 00:31:58< celticminstrel> mattsc: Do you think this is more likely an error in the AI or in the WML? https://gna.org/bugs/?25411
20170317 00:32:25 * celticminstrel also isn't certain whether it's still a problem.
20170317 00:33:48< irker809> wesnoth: Jeffrey 'Sigurd' Westcoat wesnoth:master dff4b7805a59 / data/campaigns/Secrets_of_the_Ancients/scenarios/08_Carcyn.cfg: SotA: Reorder traits so loyal is first (#957) https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/dff4b7805a59035a7dd7e9aa5766f822db7cdbda
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20170317 00:40:04< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#12954 (master - 9e25847 : Charles Dang): The build failed.
20170317 00:40:04< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/211878920
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20170317 00:53:28< mattsc> celticminstrel: phew, no idea.  It could be either, and I haven’t followed what might have changed “recently”.
20170317 00:53:38< mattsc> I could have a look on the weekend.
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20170317 01:22:17< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#12955 (master - 252b642 : sigurdfdragon): The build failed.
20170317 01:22:17< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/211894441
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20170317 01:43:27< irker809> wesnoth: Celtic Minstrel wesnoth:master e5f92fef08ed / src/tests/test_formula_core.cpp: Fix the broken unit test https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/e5f92fef08ede9680a5fdcadbf28f738112d9628
20170317 01:48:39< mattsc> celticminstrel: I did some quick tests and AFAICT, the wolves behave the same in master as they did in 1.11 (last time I played through LoW).
20170317 01:49:10< celticminstrel> Well, that's probably good then, I guess.
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20170317 01:56:21< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#12957 (master - c04e4a4 : sigurdfdragon): The build failed.
20170317 01:56:21< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/211904468
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20170317 02:28:11< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#12958 (master - 6b251d4 : Celtic Minstrel): The build failed.
20170317 02:28:11< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/211910919
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20170317 02:28:46< celticminstrel> Seven more to go... wonder if I should just cancel some... >_>
20170317 02:31:26< mattsc> celticminstrel: just posted a reply to the beug report and marked it as ‘works for me’
20170317 02:31:33< mattsc> beug?
20170317 02:31:39< celticminstrel> Okay
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20170317 02:34:31< celticminstrel> Hi
20170317 02:37:57< SigurdFD> who, me?
20170317 02:38:30< celticminstrel> Well, you are the person who just joined.
20170317 02:38:41< SigurdFD> ok, Hi
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20170317 02:44:54< SigurdFD> with regards to bugs: there's about half a dozen minor ones I haven't gotten around to reporting
20170317 02:45:06< celticminstrel> Uh-oh! :O
20170317 02:45:23< SigurdFD> the shuffle sides is probably the most significant
20170317 02:45:27< celticminstrel> Well, how minor are we talking though?
20170317 02:45:44< SigurdFD> if I remember correcly, it appeared back in octorber/november?
20170317 02:46:29< SigurdFD> if sides are shuffled, leaders will end up with the opposite recruit list
20170317 02:47:43< SigurdFD> I'll go post that to gna
20170317 02:48:04< celticminstrel> Shuffle Sides is a mess IIRC.
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20170317 02:48:32< celticminstrel> It's also a little unclear what it's supposed to do.
20170317 02:49:14< SigurdFD> definatley not what I'm seeing
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20170317 02:54:53< SigurdFD> yeah, though I think it did work as expected at one point
20170317 02:58:24< SigurdFD> as far as the others, I think some of them have been around for a while
20170317 03:00:18< SigurdFD> and some of them are probably corner cases thta can be classed as incosistancies, such as one I noticed when going through SotA
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20170317 03:01:56< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#12959 (master - 6bf76d9 : Celtic Minstrel): The build failed.
20170317 03:01:56< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/211914021
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20170317 03:02:13< SigurdFD> what I meant by "definatley not what I'm seeing" is "certainly not what it's supposed to do."
20170317 03:02:42< celticminstrel> Okay, good, seems that that one passed.
20170317 03:03:52< celticminstrel> Ah, right, I guess it doesn't pot-update though, just msgfmt, so I'd better try the pot-update on the Mac then...
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20170317 03:07:53< celticminstrel> Speaking of pot-update, since I'm going to run it anyway to make sure it still works, should I go ahead and commit it?
20170317 03:07:59 * celticminstrel poke vultraz_iOS and loonycyborg 
20170317 03:09:19< celticminstrel> Oh, also, speaking of translations, didn't someone say there were some translations already for SotA?
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20170317 03:12:38< SigurdFD> yes, there were 3. we didn't know how to add them in the pr
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20170317 03:13:00< celticminstrel> Have there been a lot of dialogue changes to SotA?
20170317 03:13:12< celticminstrel> To include the translations in the repo we'd need the po-files.
20170317 03:13:15< SigurdFD> beetlenaut has the .po files
20170317 03:13:20< celticminstrel> 'kay
20170317 03:13:32< SigurdFD> a few, most of the translations should still be valid
20170317 03:13:41 * celticminstrel nods
20170317 03:14:00< vultraz_iOS> Yes, pot update please
20170317 03:14:39< celticminstrel> Running it now. Assuming scons doesn't just quit because it didn't find Boost Thread.
20170317 03:14:48< celticminstrel> Ah, yup, working.
20170317 03:14:51< celticminstrel> Seemingly.
20170317 03:17:25< celticminstrel> xgettext says "warning: unterminated string literal" four times - src/ai/composite/component.cpp:143, src/game_events/action_wml.cpp:522, src/game_events/action_wml.cpp:523, src/game_events/action_wml.cpp:525
20170317 03:17:43< celticminstrel> There's also a sed error here for some reason.
20170317 03:17:52< celticminstrel> sed -i s/charset=CHARSET/charset=UTF-8/ po/wesnoth/wesnoth.cpp.pot
20170317 03:17:58< celticminstrel> sed: 1: "po/wesnoth/wesnoth.cpp.pot": extra characters at the end of p command
20170317 03:19:56< celticminstrel> wmlxgettext is also giving an error in an AI unit test...
20170317 03:20:08< celticminstrel> Unmatched [/set_variables] tag, twice.
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20170317 03:39:55< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#12960 (master - 2454059 : Celtic Minstrel): The build failed.
20170317 03:39:55< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/211919806
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20170317 03:52:41< celticminstrel> I don't remember how to instruct wmlxgettext to ignore unbalanced tags. Anyone?
20170317 03:54:25< celticminstrel> Okay, the unterminated string warnings are raw strings. Presumably my xgettext, at least, does not understand raw strings.
20170317 03:55:50< celticminstrel> Oh right, the test causing wmlxgettext to choke might actually be that test I never committed...
20170317 03:57:36< celticminstrel> As an aside, each wmlxgettext is parsing a huge number of files with an insanely long command-line. Maybe wmlxgettext should offer an option to take a list of files like xgettext does.
20170317 03:57:50< celticminstrel> ie, pass a file containing a list of files.
20170317 03:59:26< celticminstrel> I'm going to view the diff (to see if certain strings were detected properly) but not bother editing out spurious changes (I noticed some comment lines are reordered for no apparent reason, though I suppose it could be that the actual source was reordered).
20170317 03:59:50< celticminstrel> Apparently I can't complete the full pot-update target because I don't have asciidoc installed.
20170317 04:00:03< celticminstrel> Well whatever, it updated all the pot-files before getting to that.
20170317 04:06:30< celticminstrel> Apparently [color_range] tags have a translatable name?
20170317 04:09:42< celticminstrel> What happened to all the "addon_type^" strings? Surely they'd still be used in the new addons manager?
20170317 04:11:01< celticminstrel> Ah, they just moved around, I guess.
20170317 04:12:25< celticminstrel> Looks like it does correctly catch split strings.
20170317 04:17:57< irker809> wesnoth: Celtic Minstrel wesnoth:master 77e2e1c31552 / po/ (10 files in 10 dirs): Run pot-update https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/77e2e1c31552062f07f1f33a6b072b5453355146
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20170317 04:20:33< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#12961 (master - 18a7e80 : Charles Dang): The build failed.
20170317 04:20:33< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/211923587
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20170317 04:21:27< celticminstrel> It's possible I messed up a little; for some reason there were two wesnoth-lib potfiles and two wesnoth-help potfiles, which I deleted instead of merging and committing; I just assumed that, since the main wesnoth-lib potfile was untouched, that must mean that merging them would give exactly the contents of the main potfile.
20170317 04:22:11< celticminstrel> Or maybe the missing asciidoc actually interrupted the pot-update somehow and it was only a partial update.
20170317 04:22:43< celticminstrel> So, I guess, feel free to still run it prior to release or something.
20170317 04:23:57< irker809> wesnoth: Jeffrey 'Sigurd' Westcoat wesnoth:master ce14f56fb94c / src/gui/dialogs/game_stats.cpp: Fixup cfc4c5c425819fd9650864195e71f13613ff88fe (#958) https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/ce14f56fb94cfc5e361c82b7a32dc11d550b6eb8
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20170317 04:32:57< irker809> wesnoth: Celtic Minstrel wesnoth:deselect_unit f20c4067e3af / src/scripting/game_lua_kernel.cpp: Allow wesnoth.select_unit() to deselect the unit https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/f20c4067e3afb1922151f24ee6a13bff1acb49ac
20170317 04:43:43< irker809> wesnoth: Celtic Minstrel wesnoth:api_use_updates d18e774bc487 / data/ai/micro_ais/ (7 files in 4 dirs): Update Micro AIs to use new Lua API functions for altering AI https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/d18e774bc4873e7ea4b4364ffd139a5623925a81
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20170317 05:08:50< SigurdFD> ughh. I just can't seem to understand stuff like: local restore_statuses = cfg.restore_statuses == nil
20170317 05:10:47< SigurdFD> celticminstrel: ^ I tried to fix it, but I can't seem to understand it. posting a bug report for it
20170317 05:14:36< SigurdFD> celticminstrel: https://gna.org/bugs/?25605
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20170317 05:20:08< irker809> wesnoth: Wedge009 wesnoth:master 60f05e3284c3 / projectfiles/VC12/ (wesnoth.vcxproj wesnoth.vcxproj.filters): Update VC project files for e1658881 and 18a7e802. https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/60f05e3284c3c582265c28c34a33f117e8f31ad3
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20170317 05:42:08< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#12964 (master - cfc4c5c : Charles Dang): The build was broken.
20170317 05:42:09< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/211944376
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20170317 06:01:30< vultraz_iOS> can someone cancel travis
20170317 06:01:36< vultraz_iOS> just let him do current
20170317 06:05:14< irker809> wesnoth: Wedge009 wesnoth:master b78f13810a05 / projectfiles/VC12/wesnoth.vcxproj: Didn't properly save all the files before committing 60f05e32. :/ https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/b78f13810a05a38f124137a8d6ad0834239b0a84
20170317 06:07:54< vultraz_iOS> celmin|sleep: please fix https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?25605
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20170317 06:21:54< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#12965 (master - 2d7ac7c : Charles Dang): The build is still failing.
20170317 06:21:54< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/211952227
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20170317 06:58:47< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#12967 (master - dff4b78 : Jeffrey 'Sigurd' Westcoat): The build is still failing.
20170317 06:58:47< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/211964242
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20170317 07:43:28< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#12968 (master - e5f92fe : Celtic Minstrel): The build is still failing.
20170317 07:43:28< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/211976495
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20170317 08:25:50< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#12970 (master - 77e2e1c : Celtic Minstrel): The build failed.
20170317 08:25:50< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/212000628
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20170317 09:06:31< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#12972 (deselect_unit - f20c406 : Celtic Minstrel): The build was broken.
20170317 09:06:31< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/212003003
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20170317 10:30:01< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#12975 (api_use_updates - d18e774 : Celtic Minstrel): The build is still failing.
20170317 10:30:01< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/212004485
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20170317 12:33:55< wedge009> Just came back from cloning my system drive to a bigger disk. Never tried that before, it was pleasantly straightforward.
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20170317 13:27:46< mattsc> wedge009: hi
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20170317 13:52:29< mattsc> wedge009: is it possible that what you are seeing in The Chied Must Die is wolves taking a step on their patrol routes, getting close enough to the player units and then turning their way?
20170317 13:52:52< mattsc> I’ll have a look myself alsa, but probably not today.
20170317 13:59:11< mattsc> There are many more wolves coming close to the western side of the keep, so I wouldn’t be surprised by that
20170317 13:59:13< zookeeper> i don't know how the patrols are supposed to work exactly, but is it even clearly communicated to the player so they actually can make informed choices WRT movement or is it vague enough that they have to guess and learn by trial and error?
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20170317 13:59:43< mattsc> It says “don’t come close to the wolves, they might smell you”
20170317 13:59:55< mattsc> It does not say that close = 3 hexes
20170317 14:00:00< zookeeper> right
20170317 14:00:46< mattsc> I think the whole scenario is an attempt having having a different type of scenario, and it just doesn’t work very well.
20170317 14:00:52< zookeeper> and are their patrol routes such that when a player finds a wolf, it's not just going to move within 3 hexes on their turn?
20170317 14:01:34< mattsc> not sure what you mean with “when a player finds a wolf”
20170317 14:01:42< zookeeper> does it not have fog/shroud?
20170317 14:01:47< mattsc> No
20170317 14:01:50< zookeeper> oh, righty
20170317 14:02:08< zookeeper> i guess then it's not a problem, if the player has time to observe the patrol routes and plan their moves
20170317 14:02:16< mattsc> It’s an open map, the patrol routes are fixed, and the turn limit is long, so you could sit for a few turns and watch the wolves first
20170317 14:02:22< mattsc> right
20170317 14:03:12< mattsc> that’s what I did first, in fact, I didn’t actually check out the patrol routes in the code
20170317 14:03:47< zookeeper> one thing that might be good to add is an enter hex event which warns you when you step within 3 hexes of a wolf, because at that point you still (probably) have time to take a step back.
20170317 14:04:12< mattsc> yeah, maybe
20170317 14:05:39< mattsc> the harder problem to figure out (for the player) though is that the wolves also abandon their patrol route at any intermediate waypoint (not hex) and it’s not at all as clear where those are.
20170317 14:06:21< mattsc> As I said, the scenario is a good attempt at something different, but it does not work very well.
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20170317 14:07:07< mattsc> For example, all the other enemy units on the map are idle.  For example, why would the Chief’s guards not attack you when you stop right next to them.
20170317 14:07:31< mattsc> Ugh, so many typos.  Brain’s not awake yet ...
20170317 14:10:00< zookeeper> if one wanted to get really fancy, they could write some kind of tracking thingy for the wolves where they can pick up your scent and follow your footsteps, but you can lose them by wading through water etc :p
20170317 14:10:48< zookeeper> so you can't get through the patrol routes without them getting a whiff of you sooner or later, but you can still lose them before they catch you
20170317 14:14:43< mattsc> heh, yeah  :P
20170317 14:16:29< zookeeper> might be tricky to write, but mostly it'd probably be really difficult to design the routes so that it'd present an interesting challenge while keeping the rules clear
20170317 14:17:03< mattsc> yeah
20170317 14:18:29< mattsc> The patrol code is written in Formula AI and probably quite old.  It’s a nice demonstration of how to achieved quite interesting behavior with simple(ish) code.
20170317 14:19:23< mattsc> Btw, while I have been largely absent here, I’ve actually put quite a bit of work into Wesnoth.  All on the AI side though.
20170317 14:19:33< zookeeper> there's probably some other fun ideas that could work off the fact that you're actually invisible
20170317 14:20:36< mattsc> yeah; and I guess that’s the reason why the orcs don’t see you, even when you’re standing right next to them.  HAPMA, after all.  :P
20170317 14:23:29< mattsc> Though, I just checked, the unit on the map becomes non-transparent when it moves next to an enemy.
20170317 14:25:17< zookeeper> maybe the invisibility should be done as an image mod instead of a [hides] ability
20170317 14:26:22< mattsc> makes sense
20170317 14:27:13< mattsc> wedge009: I just did some more tests, and for all I can tell, there’s really no difference between 1.11 and master.
20170317 14:27:31< mattsc> This includes attacking the Chief, letting me be discovered and then moving away.
20170317 14:27:57< mattsc> As long as I move more than 3 hexes from all patrol routes, the wolves leave me alone again.
20170317 14:28:47< mattsc> This is really all I have time for right now though.  I need to be off now.
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20170317 14:48:05< celmin|sleep> Ugh, I fixed the test but forgot to remove the one most important bit.
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20170317 14:49:52< irker306> wesnoth: Celtic Minstrel wesnoth:master 1de48a6cb612 / src/tests/test_formula_core.cpp: fixup! Fix the broken unit test https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/1de48a6cb612cc631414888f8652b92b22a0fa15
20170317 14:59:51-!- celmin|sleep is now known as celticminstrel
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20170317 15:53:39< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#12977 (master - 1de48a6 : Celtic Minstrel): The build has errored.
20170317 15:53:39< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/212145952
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20170317 15:54:23< irker306> wesnoth: Celtic Minstrel wesnoth:master 96c79ba6b37c / src/log.cpp: Nuke another use of snprintf https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/96c79ba6b37c906787113f01d21c6c810b1ff83e
20170317 15:54:25< irker306> wesnoth: Celtic Minstrel wesnoth:master b16728c78e63 / data/lua/wml-tags.lua: Fix [heal_unit] not restoring statuses by default (GNA25605) https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/b16728c78e633d9e38de191508a1067e59b2cf5e
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20170317 16:12:59< zookeeper> celticminstrel, you've adopted some weird ways to refer to bug reports in commit messages
20170317 16:14:46< celticminstrel> I suppose...
20170317 16:17:43-!- vultraz_iOS [uid24821@wesnoth/developer/vultraz] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
20170317 16:21:20< celticminstrel> ...what?
20170317 16:26:16-!- vultraz_iOS [uid24821@wesnoth/developer/vultraz] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20170317 16:26:34< celticminstrel> "Connection closed for inactivity"?
20170317 16:26:39< vultraz_iOS> zookeeper: shuffle sides. what does one expect of shuffle sides?
20170317 16:26:57< celticminstrel> Ah yes, what exactly is this supposed to do.
20170317 16:27:40< vultraz_iOS> for example, is it expected that you always keep your stating position, but not leader/faction choice?
20170317 16:27:48< vultraz_iOS> or that you do, but never position?
20170317 16:27:51< vultraz_iOS> or both?
20170317 16:32:31< celticminstrel> And what should be the play order after shufflinh?
20170317 16:32:35< celticminstrel> ^shuffling
20170317 16:32:45< vultraz_iOS> indeed
20170317 16:32:49< zookeeper> i don't know what one expects, it's more a question of what would make the most sense :p
20170317 16:32:55< vultraz_iOS> I need to know this so I can refactor this code
20170317 16:33:00< vultraz_iOS> because this code is shitty
20170317 16:33:03< zookeeper> the current method is that awful deep shuffle of the actual side data
20170317 16:33:03< vultraz_iOS> and this code is buggy
20170317 16:33:06< celticminstrel> Based on order in the MP Create? Based on the order of [side] tags in the scenario?
20170317 16:33:13< vultraz_iOS> and this code makes me want to scream 
20170317 16:33:36< zookeeper> i suggest you look up the last conversion we've had about it
20170317 16:34:40< celticminstrel> If it's only supposed to shuffle starting positions (not sure if that makes sense though), then perhaps you could actually drop the whole side-engine shuffle and instead shuffle the starting positions attached to the map... though of course that would mean it won't work for scenarios that specify starting locations right in the [side].
20170317 16:35:09< celticminstrel> Which might be undesirable, so maybe a different solution is better.
20170317 16:35:11< vultraz_iOS> right now it seems to shuffle content
20170317 16:35:28< vultraz_iOS> ie, "you" land playing one of the sides
20170317 16:35:32< gfgtdf> vultraz_iOS: in shuffle sides the factions & leader ae still connected to the sam players
20170317 16:35:33< zookeeper> https://www.wesnoth.org/irclogs/2016/09/%23wesnoth-dev.2016-09-04.log
20170317 16:35:49< gfgtdf> vultraz_iOS: and the starting positions are sitll connecte dto the side numbers
20170317 16:36:19< vultraz_iOS> gfgtdf: then what is supposed to change?
20170317 16:36:35< gfgtdf> vultraz_iOS: so basibalyl 'the players' together with their 'chosen factions' are shufeled on the 'slots' as defined by teh scenario.
20170317 16:36:38< zookeeper> if you wish to refactor that code and change the shuffle system to fix whatever problems the current method causes, then yes that'd be very nice
20170317 16:37:21< gfgtdf> vultraz_iOS: so that the players keep thewir chosen optionsbut are asigned rndomly to the slots
20170317 16:37:23< celticminstrel> gfgtdf: So should it be equivalent to randomly dragging and dropping the players in the MP Create screen? (Though that hasn't been implemented in the new version yet.)
20170317 16:37:44< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: ye, that's what i'd think
20170317 16:37:47< vultraz_iOS> gfgtdf: ok so it's essentially randomizing the order of a vector?
20170317 16:38:13< vultraz_iOS> you keep the leader you pick, but you might start on "side 2" instead of "side 1".
20170317 16:38:20< celticminstrel> Seems that way.
20170317 16:40:21< zookeeper> it's not a straightforward thing in all cases. what happens when a side has a fixed faction? does the player in that slot excluded from the shuffle? what if player 1 is in a disadvantageous position on an asymmetric map and is given extra gold to compensate? do they take the gold with them if they get shuffled onto another slot? etc etc.
20170317 16:40:57< zookeeper> gold and income might be tied to the side, or to the player
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20170317 16:41:30< celticminstrel> Hmm, there are gold and income sliders in MP Staging, aren't there...
20170317 16:41:37< vultraz_iOS> yes
20170317 16:41:38 * celticminstrel suddenly remembered it's not called MP Create.
20170317 16:41:57< gfgtdf> zookeeper: hmm what do you mean by mixed faction ?
20170317 16:42:18< celticminstrel> If the [side] tag sets gold or income, are those scaled by the sliders, or are they taken as initial values for the sliders, or are they just ignored?
20170317 16:42:30< vultraz_iOS> depends
20170317 16:42:36< vultraz_iOS> is use_map_settings on?
20170317 16:42:38< zookeeper> gfgtdf, fixed. side 3 can't choose, they always get drakes or a custom faction or whatever.
20170317 16:43:28< zookeeper> gfgtdf, just like in some RPG scenario you don't get to choose a faction, you maybe only choose a leader or can't choose anything at all. those kinds of sides could be mixed with regular sides in a scenario, right?
20170317 16:45:22< zookeeper> anyway, i'm actually not sure what the exact purpose of the shuffle feature is. is it necessary at all for the shuffle results to be revealed only once the game has started, or could it happen in the staging screen, so for example the host gets a shuffle button, after which people can still adjust the gold sliders and factions and whatever if they want?
20170317 16:46:00< gfgtdf> zookeeper: hmm well yesthere are 2 ways what teh engine coudl do there (when the faction/leader cannot be swapped): 1) leave the factions asigne dot the side slot, or 2) don'T swaopü the player in this case.
20170317 16:46:02< vultraz_iOS> I don't know 
20170317 16:46:23< vultraz_iOS> for some reason I've always heard this particular feature is buggy as hell
20170317 16:46:24< gfgtdf> zookeeper: not sure eigher
20170317 16:46:39< zookeeper> vultraz_iOS, well presumably it's buggy due to the way it works
20170317 16:46:49< celticminstrel> My impression was that the point of shuffle sides was to reduce knowledge of the game's initial state.
20170317 16:46:56< vultraz_iOS> this code is just shitty
20170317 16:47:48< celticminstrel> Regarding faction-locked sides, I feel like the simplest thing would be to just exclude them from the shuffle.
20170317 16:48:01< celticminstrel> Though that does make the shuffle a little harder to accomplish.
20170317 16:48:47< gfgtdf> vultraz_iOS: this is the fr for shuffle_sides https://gna.org/bugs/?15798
20170317 16:49:52< gfgtdf> oh and here the commit that implemted it https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/22243cb1ba92d7b6c713fed9a886ff4ae86e1df9
20170317 16:51:01< gfgtdf> it seems to me that it was realyl just made for simple 1vs1 game aithout muhc thought about more complicated cases.
20170317 16:51:23< celticminstrel> Well that's obviously no good.
20170317 16:51:32< vultraz_iOS> huh
20170317 16:51:34< vultraz_iOS> zaroth
20170317 16:51:35< celticminstrel> Because it'll inevitably be used in the more complicated cases too.
20170317 16:51:36< vultraz_iOS> I remember him
20170317 16:51:52< gfgtdf> i think its ok if we just disallow (grey out) shuffle_sdies for too complicated cases
20170317 16:52:45< vultraz_iOS> it's not that complicated
20170317 16:52:48< gfgtdf> we have also this bug https://gna.org/bugs/?23650
20170317 16:53:25< vultraz_iOS> it just happens I'm dealing with code that makes you want to flip a table
20170317 16:53:32< vultraz_iOS> like why does every side own a FLG manager
20170317 16:53:33< vultraz_iOS> :|
20170317 16:53:35< zookeeper> oh yeah, scenarios should definitely be able to disallow shuffling
20170317 16:54:21< vultraz_iOS> why does every side have every color option
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20170317 16:54:31< vultraz_iOS> (granted I could have fixed that earlier but still)
20170317 16:54:34< zookeeper> well, duh, we do have [side] disallow_shuffle=yes|no
20170317 16:54:56< zookeeper> no one's added it to LoW
20170317 16:55:01< celticminstrel> Looking at that commit, it kinda seems weird that AI is being swapped.
20170317 16:55:10< gfgtdf> vultraz_iOS: i tink your are the one show added side_engine::color_options_
20170317 16:55:30< vultraz_iOS> yes
20170317 16:55:33< celticminstrel> In fact, all three tags being swapped seem weird.
20170317 16:55:38< vultraz_iOS> but i was just cleaning up existing worse code
20170317 16:56:10< zookeeper> that LoW shuffle bug report has been open for 2½ years and no one's applied the seemingly-trivial fix.
20170317 16:56:22< zookeeper> oops, 1½ years
20170317 16:56:48< celticminstrel> Speaking of which, vultraz_iOS, does your MP Create disable the shuffle sides button if it's not allowed for the scenario?
20170317 16:57:00< celticminstrel> (Or hide it, either way works.)
20170317 16:57:00< vultraz_iOS> good point
20170317 16:57:02< vultraz_iOS> ill check
20170317 16:57:25< gfgtdf> vultraz_iOS: no, the preivousl color code worked quite wellwith the gui1 dialog
20170317 16:58:10< vultraz_iOS> it did
20170317 16:58:13< vultraz_iOS> doesn't mean it was good
20170317 16:58:28< vultraz_iOS> anyway, I have stuff to refactor
20170317 17:01:22< vultraz_iOS> and I have yet to figure out the cause of sigurd's recruit list bug
20170317 17:02:57< celticminstrel> Maybe shuffle occurs too late? I dunno.
20170317 17:03:35< vultraz_iOS> I don't know
20170317 17:05:50-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-54-221-144-71.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20170317 17:05:51< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#12978 (master - b16728c : Celtic Minstrel): The build passed.
20170317 17:05:51< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/212170087
20170317 17:05:51-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-54-221-144-71.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has left #wesnoth-dev []
20170317 17:06:03< celticminstrel> \o/
20170317 17:21:13-!- Kwandulin [~Kwandulin@p200300760F7B9621397E2195E3D4BC68.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20170317 17:24:59< vultraz_iOS> celticminstrel: there's still 25 snprintf's
20170317 17:25:09< vultraz_iOS> snprintf cases*
20170317 17:25:32< vultraz_iOS> 19, if you count valid ones
20170317 17:25:46< vultraz_iOS> (valid as in not in lua/ or comments)
20170317 17:28:49< vultraz_iOS> 20160904 16:42:58< celmin> zookeeper: Guessing the point is to shuffle play order.
20170317 17:28:49< vultraz_iOS> 20160904 16:43:33< celmin> Though honestly, if that's so, why does it not just std::random_shuffle the teams vector and then go through and fix the side numbers?
20170317 17:28:49< vultraz_iOS> 20160904 16:44:25< tad_> It's a mess of calls down a class structure, reaches up a global(passed, common) "everything is here" structure, passing junk up, then back down and finally whacking a value.
20170317 17:28:49< vultraz_iOS> 20160904 16:45:22< zookeeper> if/because it actually shuffles the complete sides, then yes i'd certainly expect that to lead to all sorts of breakage, especially when used with scenarios beyond default multiplayer maps
20170317 17:28:51< vultraz_iOS> hmmmm
20170317 17:29:01< vultraz_iOS> yes, good point...
20170317 17:29:31< vultraz_iOS> (also ftr, it uses an mt_rng to shuffle. not sure why)
20170317 17:30:24< celticminstrel> vultraz_iOS: I changed that particular one because matthiaskrgr's cppcheck called it out.
20170317 17:31:13-!- Appveyor [~Appveyor@74.205.54.20] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20170317 17:31:13< Appveyor> The Battle for Wesnoth (Visual Studio 2015) - Release Celtic Minstrel b16728c: Fix [heal_unit] not restoring statuses by default (GNA25605) Failed
20170317 17:31:13< Appveyor> Details: https://ci.appveyor.com/project/wesnoth/wesnoth-7lnpw/build/Wesnoth-VS2015-master-276
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20170317 17:31:51< celticminstrel> Well, great. What's wrong with the Appveyor build now? Is it the unit test?
20170317 17:32:21< vultraz_iOS> ok, so only player sides...
20170317 17:32:22< vultraz_iOS> wait
20170317 17:32:27< vultraz_iOS> not player sides..
20170317 17:32:35< celticminstrel> ?
20170317 17:32:35< vultraz_iOS> it's sides with allow_player = true
20170317 17:32:48< vultraz_iOS> which the connect_engine sets as default
20170317 17:33:02< celticminstrel> Yes, that sounds about right.
20170317 17:33:12< celticminstrel> Possibly excluding the sides with faction lock though.
20170317 17:33:20< vultraz_iOS> but that means it could shuffle sides not actually controlled by a human
20170317 17:33:30< celticminstrel> Which is fine, isn't it?
20170317 17:33:48< vultraz_iOS> i suppose
20170317 17:34:30< vultraz_iOS> but what about AI sides
20170317 17:34:38< vultraz_iOS> if the player doesn't specify them as allow_player = no
20170317 17:34:42< vultraz_iOS> say, in a campaign..
20170317 17:35:07-!- ChipmunkV [~vova@static-89-94-113-91.axione.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20170317 17:35:12< celticminstrel> You probably should never use shuffle sides on a campaign anyway.
20170317 17:35:31< vultraz_iOS> good point
20170317 17:35:41< vultraz_iOS> let
20170317 17:35:44< vultraz_iOS> s disregard them
20170317 17:35:45< vultraz_iOS> hen
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20170317 17:35:46< vultraz_iOS> then
20170317 17:35:48< celticminstrel> Unless it's co-op like some LoW scenarios.
20170317 17:36:04< celticminstrel> And in that case the other criteria are probably sufficient.
20170317 17:36:24-!- Appleman1234 [~Appleman1@pl5975.ag1212.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
20170317 17:36:26< celticminstrel> ie, only consider sides with allow_player=true.
20170317 17:36:49< celticminstrel> Though come to think of it, excluding faction-locked sides in that situation could be a problem...
20170317 17:38:15< celticminstrel> On the other hand, if such a campaign wants shuffling I bet it could be implemented as a campaign-specific option too, using Lua/WML.
20170317 17:38:34< vultraz_iOS> or a allow_shuffle key
20170317 17:39:16< celticminstrel> Well, my point was simply that the rule of "only sides that allow player and don't lock faction can be shuffled" may not work for a co-op scenario pitched against AI.
20170317 17:39:45< celticminstrel> ...which reminds me, is shuffle sides supposed to only shuffle within the teams?
20170317 17:40:01< celticminstrel> ie, if you have a 2vs2, should it only potentially swap allies?
20170317 17:40:46< vultraz_iOS> yes
20170317 17:40:52< vultraz_iOS> it preserves teams
20170317 17:41:13< vultraz_iOS> by un-swapping the values any time sides are swapped
20170317 17:42:03< celticminstrel> Right, but it could preserve teams by only swapping sides that are mutual allies, or it could preserve teams by swapping players that are mutual enemies but then maintaining the alliance relationship as it was before the swap, and I think the latter would be problematic.
20170317 17:42:36< celticminstrel> If you swap two mutual enemies in a 2v2, it could make the scenario harder if it's arranged in such a way as to place allies near each other.
20170317 17:42:50< vultraz_iOS> ugh
20170317 17:42:59< vultraz_iOS> THIS FEATURE IS SHITTY AND WE SHOULD REMOVE IT IMMEDIATELY
20170317 17:43:21< celticminstrel> Assuming that the team-up remains the same. If such a swap means the teams are rearranged, then of course that's fine.
20170317 17:43:39< celticminstrel> Though the players might've arranged the teams because they wanted to play with a particular person.
20170317 17:44:16< vultraz_iOS> we need to figure out a design for this
20170317 17:44:29< zookeeper> ^ yes
20170317 17:44:31< vultraz_iOS> team size should obviously remain onstant
20170317 17:44:34< vultraz_iOS> constant
20170317 17:44:39< celticminstrel> Obviously.
20170317 17:45:02< celticminstrel> And team composition should remain constant in two respects: player positions on the map, and the actual people behind the team.
20170317 17:45:18< vultraz_iOS> ok
20170317 17:45:49< celticminstrel> The easiest way is to probably shuffle once per team, only the sides belonging to that team that satisfy the other criteria (allow_player=yes, no faction lock).
20170317 17:45:58< vultraz_iOS> so if you have 2 v 2 v 2 (N,W,E), then only the two people to the north are shuffled with each other, only the ones to the east with each other, ect
20170317 17:46:03< celticminstrel> Yeah.
20170317 17:46:27< celticminstrel> On the other hand, shuffling whole teams could also be valid...
20170317 17:46:43< celticminstrel> Like, swapping the two N people with the two E people in your example.
20170317 17:47:04< celticminstrel> Obviously this kind of thing requires the teams to be of equal size.
20170317 17:47:14< celticminstrel> But that'll usually be the case, I'd think.
20170317 17:47:19< zookeeper> there's also the possibility that the current option could be removed from the UI, and replaced with checkboxes in the staging screen that the host (or the players themselves) can manipulate; only the sides for whom the checkbox has been checked will be shuffled.
20170317 17:47:22< celticminstrel> Still, if you were doing it, you'd need to make sure.
20170317 17:47:56-!- stikonas_ is now known as stikonas
20170317 17:48:27< zookeeper> i'm also not sure whether it makes sense to limit the feature to shuffling within teams only. sure, if the players want to play with their chosen teammate then it makes sense, but who's to say that's usually the case?
20170317 17:48:38< celticminstrel> Also, if faction-locked sides get shuffled, they should probably only swap with other faction-locked sides.
20170317 17:48:41< vultraz_iOS> oh jesus fuck this is complicated
20170317 17:48:46< vultraz_iOS> >_<
20170317 17:48:49< celticminstrel> Yeah, it's very complicated.
20170317 17:49:32< vultraz_iOS> ok here's what I'm going to do
20170317 17:49:43< vultraz_iOS> I'm going to remove this option temporarily 
20170317 17:49:50< vultraz_iOS> (not for 1.13.7)
20170317 17:50:00< vultraz_iOS> refactor the handling of teams and sides in the connect_engine
20170317 17:50:10< vultraz_iOS> then revisit it once we have sane code management
20170317 17:50:15< celticminstrel> Perhaps there should be multiple shuffle options.
20170317 17:50:23< celticminstrel> Since zookeeper has a point there.
20170317 17:50:31< celticminstrel> Instead of a toggle, maybe it should be a dropdown.
20170317 17:50:47< zookeeper> i'd posit that my idea is the most complicated interface-wise, but it'd allow maximum freedom and avoid having to hardcode any particular solution. so, each player would get to choose not only their faction, but also whether they want to A) not be shuffled, B) be shuffled with their teammate if the teammate also wants to be shuffled or C) be shuffled with anyone who also wants to be shuffled
20170317 17:51:42< celticminstrel> zookeeper: Referring to the idea of making shuffle options side-specific rather than applied to the game as a whole?
20170317 17:52:23< zookeeper> i don't know?
20170317 17:52:30< zookeeper> i guess?
20170317 17:52:32< celticminstrel> The idea you stated just a little while ago?
20170317 17:52:35< zookeeper> yes
20170317 17:53:17< vultraz_iOS> ok, so we're about uh...
20170317 17:53:19< celticminstrel> [Mar 17@1:47:19pm] zookeeper: there's also the possibility that the current option could be removed from the UI, and replaced with checkboxes in the staging screen that the host (or the players themselves) can manipulate; only the sides for whom the checkbox has been checked will be shuffled.
20170317 17:53:21< celticminstrel> That's what I was referring to.
20170317 17:53:24< vultraz_iOS> 30 hours from release
20170317 17:53:27< celticminstrel> It's also quite a bit more complicated implementation-wise.
20170317 17:53:47< celticminstrel> vultraz_iOS: Uhh, it's still Friday.
20170317 17:54:02< vultraz_iOS> and?
20170317 17:54:15< vultraz_iOS> I said 00:00 sunday
20170317 17:54:47< celticminstrel> ...oh, right, that means the beginning of Sunday, doesn't it.
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20170317 17:55:23< zookeeper> yes, once again
20170317 17:55:29< vultraz_iOS> get any changes you want in now
20170317 17:55:30< zookeeper> i guess it'd be too hacky and icky to just put that 1 in there
20170317 17:55:53< SigurdFD> I don't think it's a good idea to have shuffle sides be that complicated
20170317 17:56:04-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20170317 17:57:24< SigurdFD> I'd say get rid of it entirely for mp & sp campaigns
20170317 17:58:13< zookeeper> SigurdFD, well, would it be complicated, really? as a player you simply get 3 choices. although now that i think of it, the problem could be that if the default is "don't shuffle" then you'll always need to tell newbies what to do and which option to pick (unless the host can change them, which i suppose would be reasonable) if you want the shuffle to succeed.
20170317 17:58:15< celticminstrel> So only allow shuffle sides in single scenarios?
20170317 17:58:20-!- gfgtdf [~chatzilla@x4e36afa0.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
20170317 17:58:23< SigurdFD> and that team members should be shuffled within teams, and then teams shuffled with other teams.
20170317 17:58:30-!- gfgtdf_ is now known as gfgtdf
20170317 17:58:37< celticminstrel> zookeeper: Well, the host can already arbitrarily change your faction and leader, so...
20170317 17:58:45< SigurdFD> and it just be one checkbox that says 'shuffle sides'
20170317 17:58:56< SigurdFD> yes, only allow shuffle sides in single scenarios
20170317 17:59:17< zookeeper> ah, shuffling of teams with other teams wouldn't be something that my idea would do...
20170317 17:59:23< celticminstrel> And if teams are unbalanced, no shuffling?
20170317 17:59:32< celticminstrel> Of teams with teams, I mean.
20170317 17:59:45< SigurdFD> and see what the mp people are doing with Sandbox Map Picker for 1v1 & 2v2
20170317 18:01:43< SigurdFD> not sure of shuffling teams with teams when unbalanced
20170317 18:03:00< zookeeper> asking the MP community what they actually want wouldn't be a bad idea, seeing how i believe no one in this discussion is much of a part of it
20170317 18:04:22< zookeeper> not ideas for what might or might not be doable, but simply what is it that they want in an individual game. do they want to keep their teammate and just shuffle order? do they want to shuffle teams within teams? do they want the shuffle results to be withheld until the game begins? etc
20170317 18:04:23< celticminstrel> I'm not quite sure how to ask the MP community stuff. Do forum posts work? Do they all frequent the forum?
20170317 18:06:31< SigurdFD> I've seen some names show in irc occasisionally
20170317 18:06:52< zookeeper> forum post, and then if it's wanted we can even use the multiplayer server message feature to advertise it in the lobby a few times
20170317 18:07:16< zookeeper> (i'd think people reflexively ignore the MotD so putting it there might not work)
20170317 18:07:37< zookeeper> but really i'd think just a forum post will do, enough of the regulars visit at least occasionally
20170317 18:08:50< celticminstrel> Should it go in the MP Dev forum?
20170317 18:09:01< Ravana_> is shuffle also changing factions fixed?
20170317 18:09:31-!- stikonas_ [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev
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20170317 18:09:33< zookeeper> celticminstrel, yes
20170317 18:09:47-!- Kwandulin [~Kwandulin@p200300760F7B9621397E2195E3D4BC68.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20170317 18:10:33< celticminstrel> Apparently phbBB polls are only single-question.
20170317 18:15:15< SigurdFD> back later
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20170317 19:39:07< vultraz_iOS> it is rather stupid that the connect engine has to send a new config to everyone for every single change
20170317 19:39:59< vultraz_iOS> but I dont think the sever is able to process anything except configs 
20170317 19:40:27< vultraz_iOS> (to be fair it is, I think, sent in diffs)
20170317 19:40:38< irker306> wesnoth: Jyrki Vesterinen wesnoth:master 16fefa26a7cf / src/ (6 files in 4 dirs): Fix MSVC compiler warnings https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/16fefa26a7cfef52847a52f87a342c74fa5418a3
20170317 19:40:48< celticminstrel> Is that what caused Appveyor to fail?
20170317 19:40:55< JyrkiVesterinen> No.
20170317 19:40:59< celticminstrel> Or was that the 2017 warnings?
20170317 19:41:14< JyrkiVesterinen> Yes, I was looking for MSVC2017 warnings.
20170317 19:41:35< JyrkiVesterinen> As far as I can tell, the warnings aren't new and also occurred in VS2013 and VS2015.
20170317 19:41:57 * vultraz_iOS ponders what the side engines should contain
20170317 19:42:19< vultraz_iOS> ok, I think the side_engine class should just be all the components needed to generate the new config 
20170317 19:42:33< vultraz_iOS> all the management should be owned by the connect_engine
20170317 19:43:22< vultraz_iOS> so that means splitting some flg data out
20170317 19:43:28< vultraz_iOS> let's see
20170317 19:44:08< vultraz_iOS> so, just the config ptr, and the type and gender strings...
20170317 19:44:43< vultraz_iOS> though in this case, it could possibly just be 3 strings
20170317 19:46:20< vultraz_iOS> also going to cut the drop side code
20170317 19:48:51< vultraz_iOS> why in everloving fuck is there side drop handling in THE GAME BOARD
20170317 19:49:24< gfgtdf> vultraz_iOS: i also wonder wheterh we should drop that 'switch leaders that were stores in [unit]' code, connect_engone.cpp has some comments that explicitly refer to 'change carryover leader from previosu scneario with a new leader' which 1) is rareely somethign you'd want, 2) likeley to be brtoken to to not being tested in practical use
20170317 19:49:26< vultraz_iOS> or does this mean "a side was abandoned"
20170317 19:49:39< gfgtdf> vultraz_iOS: not soure what code you are rfefering to
20170317 19:49:52< gfgtdf> refering*
20170317 19:50:17< vultraz_iOS> https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/blob/master/src/playturn.cpp#L207
20170317 19:50:33< vultraz_iOS> I think this is dealing with sides leaving
20170317 19:50:34< vultraz_iOS> ?
20170317 19:50:42< gfgtdf> yes
20170317 19:51:00< gfgtdf> durign the game ofc.
20170317 19:51:06< vultraz_iOS> ok
20170317 19:51:23< vultraz_iOS> good
20170317 19:51:26< vultraz_iOS> not relaed, then
20170317 19:51:45< vultraz_iOS> gfgtdf: what is this other code you're talking about?
20170317 19:52:55-!- Greg-Boggs [~greg_bogg@173.240.241.83] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20170317 19:53:07< gfgtdf> vultraz_iOS: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/blob/master/src/game_initialization/connect_engine.cpp#L1083
20170317 19:53:44< vultraz_iOS> what is that even doing...
20170317 19:54:03< gfgtdf> also some related code in flg manager
20170317 19:54:04< gfgtdf> i think that
20170317 19:54:12< gfgtdf> if you play a mp campaign
20170317 19:54:19< gfgtdf> and have a lerader from a previous scneario
20170317 19:54:47< gfgtdf> this code wants to make it work that whn you go to mpstagin betwwen 2 scenarios that you can switch teh old leader for a new one using the flg dialog
20170317 19:55:02< gfgtdf> mpstaging*
20170317 19:55:38< vultraz_iOS> ok...sure
20170317 19:55:47< vultraz_iOS> but why should that need special handling
20170317 19:56:55< gfgtdf> vultraz_iOS: becuse teh leaders have ids which need to bw preserved
20170317 19:57:10< vultraz_iOS> so it's only for switching type?
20170317 19:57:18< gfgtdf> vultraz_iOS: i think yes not sure though
20170317 19:57:20< gfgtdf> vultraz_iOS: also the leadre is stores ina  [unit] liek otghet recall units and not doirectly in [side]
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20170317 20:13:20< celticminstrel> So I was going to post a poll about Shuffle Sides...
20170317 20:15:14< celticminstrel> Currently I have 4 poll options - 1) shuffle players within teams only; 2) shuffle players within teams and also shuffle teams; 3) shuffle indiscriminately while preserving player teams; 4) shuffle indiscriminately while preserving map teams.
20170317 20:16:33< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: 'within team only' soundls liek it woudl do nothign in 1vs1 (the case that it was made for)
20170317 20:16:47< gfgtdf> like it would do nothing*
20170317 20:17:33< celticminstrel> I can only have one question, otherwise I'd also add some other things zookeeper mentioned, like "should the shuffle result be made visible before the game begins" or options about how to handle locked factions.
20170317 20:17:58< celticminstrel> gfgtdf: Yes, option 1 would do nothing in that case.
20170317 20:20:42< celticminstrel> gfgtdf, vultraz_iOS, zookeeper, can any of you think of other mutually exclusive options?
20170317 20:20:58< celticminstrel> (Other complementary options are fine too, but they wouldn't be on the poll.)
20170317 20:21:09< celticminstrel> Note that I could allow users to pick two choices rather than just one, potentially.
20170317 20:21:53< vultraz_iOS> Shuffle in 1v1 sounds rather useless
20170317 20:22:08< celticminstrel> In 1v1 sure, but not in 2v2.
20170317 20:22:17< gfgtdf> vultraz_iOS: no it husffles the 1 sides so that ech player has an eaul change to be side1
20170317 20:22:44< celticminstrel> The only word I can't figure out there is "eaul".
20170317 20:22:54< gfgtdf> equal*
20170317 20:22:56< gfgtdf> vultraz_iOS: from my gna link  eariler you can see that 1vs1 was the main reason why this was implemented.
20170317 20:23:04< celticminstrel> Oh, equal chance.
20170317 20:23:26< zookeeper> i dunno why you're making a poll in the first place, if we were supposed to figure out what the feature should do
20170317 20:24:05< gfgtdf> (this one https://gna.org/bugs/?15798 )
20170317 20:24:33< zookeeper> also 3 and 4 are simply hard to understand
20170317 20:24:56< celticminstrel> 3) It should shuffle all players indiscriminately, and preserve the player-chosen teams.
20170317 20:25:05< celticminstrel> 4) It should shuffle all players indiscriminately, and preserve the map-defined teams.
20170317 20:25:13< celticminstrel> ^ Actual text currently in my poll draft.
20170317 20:25:26< zookeeper> sure, but it's still confusing
20170317 20:25:29< celticminstrel> Okay.
20170317 20:25:44< celticminstrel> Just making sure the confusion wasn't a result of my abbreviation for IRC.
20170317 20:25:44< zookeeper> what does preserving mean if you shuffle? and that's not a question i want an answer to
20170317 20:26:26< celticminstrel> How's this?
20170317 20:26:27< celticminstrel> 3) It should shuffle all players indiscriminately; players who chose to be on the same team stay on the same team regardless of where they end up on the map.
20170317 20:26:45< zookeeper> ah, very good
20170317 20:27:04< celticminstrel> 4) It should shuffle all players indiscriminately; players are assigned teams based on where they end up on the map.
20170317 20:27:13< celticminstrel> Maybe "reassigned"
20170317 20:28:14< gfgtdf> vultraz_iOS: any prograss one the wrong-leader-with-shuffle-sides bug ?
20170317 20:28:37< vultraz_iOS> Wrong leader?
20170317 20:29:15< zookeeper> celticminstrel, yeah those are perfectly understandable
20170317 20:29:24< gfgtdf> well recuitlist-doesnt-match-leader
20170317 20:29:55< gfgtdf> i'd say its the leader that isbugged since the recuitlists are shuffled while te leaders stay liek they were assign oin mpstaging
20170317 20:30:16< vultraz_iOS> No progress
20170317 20:30:32< vultraz_iOS> Cannot find root cause
20170317 20:30:41< vultraz_iOS> Decided to work on refactoring shit
20170317 20:35:32< gfgtdf> vultraz_iOS: are you curently wokring on connect_engine.cpp ?
20170317 20:35:53< vultraz_iOS> Yes but if you have a change just commit it I can rebate
20170317 20:35:58< vultraz_iOS> Rebase
20170317 20:36:17< gfgtdf> vultraz_iOS: i just want to add some debug output (LOG_MP << stuff)
20170317 20:36:35< celticminstrel> This is my post so far: http://pastebin.com/tPqZ6pKn
20170317 20:36:47< celticminstrel> Any suggestions / additions welcome.
20170317 20:43:54< irker306> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master 2406ad4f667b / src/game_initialization/connect_engine.cpp: add some debug output https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/2406ad4f667b53a9537670a83706e1e17b866b20
20170317 20:46:02< vultraz_iOS> ok I think I'm going to gut most of the FLG manager
20170317 20:46:15< vultraz_iOS> I think it's basically always the same for all sides
20170317 20:46:19< vultraz_iOS> except the selections
20170317 20:46:35< vultraz_iOS> so I'll move the selections to the side_engine and turn the flg_manager into a data class
20170317 20:46:41< celticminstrel> Just make sure you test that everything still works before committing.
20170317 20:46:56< gfgtdf> vultraz_iOS: note that each side an have its oiwn 'custom' faction based on the [side] data
20170317 20:47:07< vultraz_iOS> gfgtdf: ?
20170317 20:47:07< gfgtdf> own*
20170317 20:47:10< celticminstrel> Also, if it's just a data class, it shouldn't be called flg_manager.
20170317 20:47:46< vultraz_iOS> gfgtdf: what do you mean
20170317 20:48:00< vultraz_iOS> do you mean like in cases where you load a save?
20170317 20:48:07< gfgtdf> in mp campaogns likw LoW but iirrc also in 'a new land' the game uses 'custom' factions that use the recuitlist in [side] instad of using another faction
20170317 20:48:32< gfgtdf> thats why flg_manager adds sometimes a 'custom' factions on top of the list
20170317 20:49:16< vultraz_iOS> hm
20170317 20:49:39< gfgtdf> vultraz_iOS: you can see tzhe rexact condition in the first line of update_available_factions
20170317 20:49:41-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
20170317 20:49:49< gfgtdf> or second line
20170317 20:50:41< vultraz_iOS> ah..
20170317 20:51:05< vultraz_iOS> I see...
20170317 20:52:31< vultraz_iOS> so in this case the flg managers may differ?
20170317 20:52:34< vultraz_iOS> for each side?
20170317 20:53:01-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20170317 20:53:11< gfgtdf> vultraz_iOS: yes
20170317 20:53:18< vultraz_iOS> fuck :|
20170317 20:54:25< vultraz_iOS> ok, might need to re-think a little..
20170317 20:54:58< vultraz_iOS> ponder ponder.
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20170317 20:58:58< irker306> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master 21ad59bf9e61 / src/game_initialization/flg_manager.cpp: add a todo comment https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/21ad59bf9e618aeada7305a7ba710672440ab620
20170317 21:00:40< irker306> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master 336ad22e45e5 / src/game_initialization/flg_manager.cpp: fixup comment https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/336ad22e45e5ffff8ce7337cc51abf775169e3ce
20170317 21:02:32< irker306> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master 1c54a70c40a8 / src/game_initialization/ (connect_engine.cpp connect_engine.hpp): Connect Engine: removed unused function relating to GUI1 drag-and-drop side reor https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/1c54a70c40a8713489408a8101fc9a7b72255542
20170317 21:03:39< celticminstrel> vultraz_iOS: Removing that's kinda questionable since we want to reimplement the behaviour...
20170317 21:03:48< vultraz_iOS> We do?
20170317 21:03:49< celticminstrel> At least, I thought we wanted to.
20170317 21:04:04< vultraz_iOS> if we do it won't use that code
20170317 21:04:46< vultraz_iOS> we haven't even begun to figure out how to replicate the GUI1 behavior of the widget actually following the mouse
20170317 21:05:56< vultraz_iOS> i do give gui1 credit for having stuff like that
20170317 21:06:41< celticminstrel> So no-one has read my draft post?
20170317 21:07:37< vultraz_iOS> why do you say that?
20170317 21:07:48< vultraz_iOS> it looks fine at glance
20170317 21:08:27< celticminstrel> Okay, yay.
20170317 21:08:53< celticminstrel> [Mar 17@5:04:04pm] vultraz_iOS: if we do it won't use that code
20170317 21:08:53< celticminstrel> Uhh, that code looks fairly generic, so I'd think it could've been used still.
20170317 21:09:14< celticminstrel> zookeeper, gfgtdf: Any thoughts? http://pastebin.com/tPqZ6pKn
20170317 21:10:41< gfgtdf> i think that the same link as before?
20170317 21:10:45< vultraz_iOS> gfgtdf: do custom factions ever appear along with era factions or are they always alone?
20170317 21:11:26< gfgtdf> vultraz_iOS: in theory era factions can appear thi the custom faction for the same side (in the same  dropbox)
20170317 21:11:58< zookeeper> celticminstrel, looks fine, although maybe also explicitly mention that people can also make suggestions outside the poll questions (for example if they feel the option should be more than a binary choice)
20170317 21:12:05< gfgtdf> vultraz_iOS: but both mainline factions that usre custom faction (LoW and anl) use faction_lock so that you cannot really change it 
20170317 21:12:24< vultraz_iOS> hm ok
20170317 21:12:46< gfgtdf> vultraz_iOS: you can simply test it by putting recuit="Knight" in one [side] of a normal mp map 
20170317 21:13:11< vultraz_iOS> Ok
20170317 21:13:18< celticminstrel> zookeeper: Which reminds me, do you think I should let users pick two poll options, add a choice 5) Two or more of the above, or neither?
20170317 21:13:30< celticminstrel> gfgtdf: Yes it's the same link, for convenience.
20170317 21:14:24< zookeeper> celticminstrel, ehh, i dunno.
20170317 21:23:35< wedge009> mattsc: It does indeed appear that I was just bumping into their normal patrol routes after being detected and retreating. As you rightly point out, the western side has far more wolves, so approaching from that direction does appear infeasible now. But it seems to take an awful lot of distance before the wolves stop pursuing, I didn't recall that from previous plays.
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20170317 22:00:34< irker306> wesnoth: Wedge009 wesnoth:master 96edc218ff38 / src/campaign_server/campaign_server.cpp: Avoid unused variable warning on WIN32 by removing the entire control socket blo https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/96edc218ff38e26292491f22e5624acbe132adc1
20170317 22:00:36< irker306> wesnoth: Wedge009 wesnoth:master 67677055bbf8 / / (12 files in 7 dirs): Merge branch 'master' of https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/67677055bbf8ae962daca2eed34d9d8ca3ff6812
20170317 22:03:55< loonycyborg> vultraz_iOS: If I implement rooms in server how do you expect it to look from clientside?
20170317 22:04:30< vultraz_iOS> Uh...
20170317 22:04:36< celticminstrel> You get additional tabs in the chat area.
20170317 22:04:36< vultraz_iOS> Chat box tabs
20170317 22:04:43< loonycyborg> I mean
20170317 22:04:50< celticminstrel> And you can view the userlist of rooms you're in.
20170317 22:04:54< loonycyborg> wrt protocol
20170317 22:05:16< loonycyborg> currently I'm considering to extend message tag
20170317 22:05:24< celticminstrel> I'm guessing the protocol stuff for rooms is still there in the client...
20170317 22:05:36< loonycyborg> so you could specify room message targets
20170317 22:05:43< loonycyborg> I saw in your gui
20170317 22:05:52< loonycyborg> that you have tabs both for lobby and game
20170317 22:05:56< loonycyborg> at some point
20170317 22:06:01 * celticminstrel would guess the most obvious way would be to have a "room" key in the config being sent.
20170317 22:06:13< loonycyborg> no way that going to work if client can't specify which room which message targets
20170317 22:06:57< celticminstrel> AFAIK, rooms already worked before the server was switched over to asio.
20170317 22:07:35< loonycyborg> hmm yes
20170317 22:08:15< loonycyborg> I kinda forgot what tags were responsible for choosing room
20170317 22:09:53-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20170317 22:11:45< mattsc> wedge009: hello again
20170317 22:12:12< mattsc> TBH, I do not recall if I had difficulties figuring out that scenario last time around, it’s been too long.
20170317 22:13:00< mattsc> We could decrease the number of wolves; or the trigger distance (or decrease it for all wolves bu the direwolf), it’s just a parameter being passed to the AI.
20170317 22:13:40< mattsc> I personally don’t have a preference one way or the other.
20170317 22:13:40< vultraz_iOS> loonycyborg: there just needs to be some way to filter messages by room
20170317 22:13:49< vultraz_iOS> Either a room id key or something else
20170317 22:14:46< loonycyborg> Filter where?
20170317 22:15:35< loonycyborg> I've studied game.cpp a bit and it seems it got some functionality that logically belongs in rooms
20170317 22:15:44< loonycyborg> if we consider game chats rooms
20170317 22:20:03< celticminstrel> I think we sort of do (in the MP staging area at least), but at the same time it's not (currently) possible to access other rooms while in a game AFAIK.
20170317 22:21:58< loonycyborg> yes with old rooms
20170317 22:22:07< loonycyborg> all rooms were strictly extensions of lobby
20170317 22:22:19< loonycyborg> and you automatically leave them all when you join a game
20170317 22:24:33< vultraz_iOS> my proposal was to treat the lobby as its own room
20170317 22:24:55< loonycyborg> I want to try something a bit more ambitious in line with your proposals
20170317 22:25:05< vultraz_iOS> and when you create a game, it gets its own room
20170317 22:25:09< loonycyborg> treat both lobby and game chats as rooms
20170317 22:25:22< vultraz_iOS> yes, that;s exactly what I want.
20170317 22:25:29< loonycyborg> but that for sure will take some changes to protocol
20170317 22:25:41< vultraz_iOS> as you have said
20170317 22:26:35< vultraz_iOS> the chatbox widget would filter out any messages received 
20170317 22:26:46< vultraz_iOS> and send any to any open rooms
20170317 22:27:18< vultraz_iOS> so when you enter a game, a new tab is opened with the new room
20170317 22:27:39< vultraz_iOS> lobby remains open and continues to receive lobby messages
20170317 22:27:50< vultraz_iOS> one would, of course, leave the lobby room once the game begins
20170317 22:27:57< vultraz_iOS> (that would be done automatically)
20170317 22:28:04-!- nore [~ncourant@sas.eleves.ens.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
20170317 22:28:21< vultraz_iOS> the only problem right now is that the lobby and staging chatboxes are two different instances of the chatbox
20170317 22:28:35< vultraz_iOS> well, I should say, the only problem would be
20170317 22:29:42< vultraz_iOS> I could always i'm not sure how to seemlesly handle lobby logs between windows
20170317 22:29:50< vultraz_iOS> unless the server can give me backlog
20170317 22:29:54< celticminstrel> vultraz_iOS: The server would filter out messages to rooms you're not in.
20170317 22:30:13< celticminstrel> You shouldn't be sent messages for rooms you're not in.
20170317 22:30:14< vultraz_iOS> hm, actually that does make more sense, yes
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20170317 22:53:09-!- Smok [50302370@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.48.35.112] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20170317 22:53:17< Smok> hi
20170317 22:55:13< Smok> i'm going to make app for wesnoth in pyhon and i don't know with gui will be the best for this purpose
20170317 22:55:35< celticminstrel> ???
20170317 22:56:32-!- gfgtdf [~chatzilla@x4e36afa0.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
20170317 22:56:34-!- gfgtdf_ is now known as gfgtdf
20170317 22:56:44< Smok> there is tkinter, PyQt, Kivy...
20170317 22:58:11-!- RatArmy_ [~ratarmy@240f:b3:88e3:1:64bf:694a:ae18:dbcf] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20170317 22:58:26< celticminstrel> I don't understand what you want to do.
20170317 23:00:03< wedge009> mattsc: I think it's okay to leave it as it is. It was possibly too 'easy' previously.
20170317 23:01:08< celticminstrel> https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=45167
20170317 23:01:24< mattsc> wedge009: okay; I am going to ask chris another question back though, because I really tried and I found the behavior to be identical in 1.12 and 1.13 in all test cases I set up.
20170317 23:01:37< wedge009> No worries.
20170317 23:01:37< celticminstrel> May edit later if something comes up though.
20170317 23:02:01< celticminstrel> Not the poll options, of course, as that would (presumably) invalidate the poll.
20170317 23:02:10< celticminstrel> Actually, would editing at all invalidate the poll?
20170317 23:02:24< zookeeper> hey, mattsc
20170317 23:02:25< Smok> create python gui app on GNU license, and i'm looking for best possible gui lib of all
20170317 23:02:40< mattsc> hi zookeeper 
20170317 23:02:53< celticminstrel> Sounds like you have no idea what you're doing either.
20170317 23:04:22< celticminstrel> I suppose others can feel free to edit too as long as it won't invalidate the poll.
20170317 23:04:37< zookeeper> mattsc, i was wondering whether you have anything to say WRT https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=16994&start=45#p609024 since you did a lot of rebalancing
20170317 23:05:13-!- Smok [50302370@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.48.35.112] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
20170317 23:07:12< vultraz_iOS> reminder to everyone: get any final changes you want in the release in *today*
20170317 23:07:22< vultraz_iOS> update changelogs, add release notes, etc
20170317 23:07:27< mattsc> zookeeper: IIRC, this is one of the harder scenarios, but I know that there were (at least) two people who played it on the hardest difficulty, so it should be possible.
20170317 23:08:04< mattsc> I do not recall if I played this one on nightmare myself.  I did for some scenarios, but mostly left that to others and did my own testing on medium.
20170317 23:09:29< celticminstrel> vultraz_iOS: So can we merge my PR then? Assuming it passed...
20170317 23:09:36< vultraz_iOS> what pr?
20170317 23:09:50< vultraz_iOS> the deselect unit /
20170317 23:09:51< zookeeper> mattsc, all right. i just didn't really have anything to say myself
20170317 23:09:51< vultraz_iOS> ?
20170317 23:10:00-!- SigurdFD [~SigurdFD@dynamic-acs-72-23-110-196.zoominternet.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20170317 23:10:15< vultraz_iOS> it did not pass
20170317 23:10:18< celticminstrel> Yes, but apparently it didn't pass, let me check that quickly.
20170317 23:10:19< vultraz_iOS> but it was from 3 days aho
20170317 23:10:20< mattsc> zookeeper: yeah, me neither.  Let me see if I have a replay on hard stored away somewhere.
20170317 23:10:20< vultraz_iOS> ago
20170317 23:10:30< vultraz_iOS> possibly it was committed at a time when master was faiing
20170317 23:10:31< vultraz_iOS> failing
20170317 23:10:58< zookeeper> mattsc, his replay is from 1.12.4 anyway so hard to say what might have changed since then without really taking some time to investigate
20170317 23:11:04< celticminstrel> Yup, the failure is the "return 0" in the unit test that I forgot to remove when fixing the unit test.
20170317 23:11:45< mattsc> zookeeper: hmm, but the rebalancing happened in 1.11, didn’t it?
20170317 23:12:21< celticminstrel> And I did research the other uses of deselect_hex; seems to only be used by [message]?
20170317 23:12:35< zookeeper> mattsc, i think so, but i just meant something else might have changed WRT the AI which would affect that
20170317 23:12:42< vultraz_iOS> celticminstrel: well, you added it for that
20170317 23:12:59< celticminstrel> Not quite, I added it because of your fix for something with [message].
20170317 23:13:36< mattsc> zookeeper: hmm, that’s possible, although I don’t recall anything that would have had a big effect on a scenario like that.
20170317 23:14:54< celticminstrel> I think that was the only thing I wanted to get in for 1.13.7.
20170317 23:15:07< celticminstrel> Unless I said something else earlier today?
20170317 23:15:14 * celticminstrel forgot already what I said earlier. >_>
20170317 23:15:17-!- wedge009 [~Thunderbi@60-241-236-92.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: wedge009]
20170317 23:15:31< mattsc> zookeeper: https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=20380&p=570275#p570275
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20170317 23:22:53< loonycyborg> vultraz_iOS: wrt backlog
20170317 23:23:03< loonycyborg> games actually do keep message history
20170317 23:23:26< loonycyborg> that's exactly the functionality I deemed to be better off as part of rooms
20170317 23:27:39-!- gfgtdf_ [~chatzilla@x4e36afa0.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20170317 23:28:14< mattsc> zookeeper: should we point cannonfodder toward that thread?  There are three replays on nightmare there from during or after the rebalancing.
20170317 23:28:31< mattsc> People do agree that it is very hard (which matches my recollection)
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20170317 23:31:51< zookeeper> mattsc, sure, please do
20170317 23:33:25< SigurdFD> celticminstrel: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/pull/946
20170317 23:34:23< celticminstrel> I'm assuming no-one objects to that being merged, then?
20170317 23:39:42-!- Duthlet [~Duthlet@dslc-082-083-178-089.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving]
20170317 23:46:31< irker306> wesnoth: sigurdfdragon wesnoth:master 0ea5ae07ceaf / data/lua/wml-tags.lua: Add more keys to store_side https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/0ea5ae07ceaf812298276e9e3926d10a49ab7114
20170317 23:46:33< irker306> wesnoth: sigurdfdragon wesnoth:master cc1e51565d76 / changelog: Changelog entry for additional [store_side] keys https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/cc1e51565d76af7b70b50277cdad734ae06edc71
20170317 23:46:35< irker306> wesnoth: Celtic Minstrel wesnoth:master 0c42107d0b6c / changelog data/lua/wml-tags.lua: Merge pull request #946 from sigurdfdragon/more_keys_for_store_side https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/0c42107d0b6c4f269eccb2acec6e562996f3ce21
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--- Log closed Sat Mar 18 00:00:45 2017