--- Log opened Sat Jun 17 00:00:02 2017 20170617 00:40:01-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@47.90.67.72] has joined #wesnoth 20170617 00:42:27-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@47.90.67.72] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170617 00:57:13-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@47.90.83.233] has joined #wesnoth 20170617 01:04:01-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@47.90.83.233] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170617 01:53:12< wesnoth-discord-> @Bitron home now, time to dig in 20170617 02:13:10-!- cc___ [~ac@2001:910:113f:1:6a05:caff:fe1c:1627] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20170617 02:21:06-!- vultraz_iOS [uid24821@wesnoth/developer/vultraz] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 20170617 02:32:52-!- Bonobo [~Bonobo@61.68.170.86] has joined #wesnoth 20170617 02:37:52-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170617 02:37:59-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20170617 02:55:41-!- ArneBab_ [~quassel@55d45dbf.access.ecotel.net] has joined #wesnoth 20170617 02:56:00-!- ArneBab_ [~quassel@55d45dbf.access.ecotel.net] has quit [Changing host] 20170617 02:56:00-!- ArneBab_ [~quassel@freenet/developer/arnebab] has joined #wesnoth 20170617 02:59:28-!- ArneBab [~quassel@freenet/developer/arnebab] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20170617 03:37:44< wesnoth-discord-> aw I am so happy battle of wesnoth still has a following. 20170617 03:38:09< wesnoth-discord-> haven't played this game in ages, trying to get back into it. 20170617 05:03:21-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has quit [Quit: And lo! The computer falls into a deep sleep, to awake again some other day!] 20170617 05:04:03-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has joined #wesnoth 20170617 05:08:57-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 20170617 05:17:00< wesnoth-discord-> Does anyone know what the "is_unit_test" key does? gfgtdf gave a bit of info here: https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=46432#p614237 but if someone could expand on what it does/why it exists/etc, that'd be great. 20170617 05:25:10-!- Kwandulin [~Kwandulin@p5DDD0E2F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth 20170617 05:27:51< wesnoth-discord-> Welp that took a while 20170617 05:27:57< wesnoth-discord-> https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=46433&p=614302#p614302 20170617 05:28:06< wesnoth-discord-> @Bitron ^ 20170617 05:30:20-!- vultraz_iOS [uid24821@wesnoth/developer/vultraz] has joined #wesnoth 20170617 05:41:12< wesnoth-discord-> @Pentarctagon as I understand it, it means that that scenario doesn't appear in the test menu 20170617 05:41:33< wesnoth-discord-> You can bring up the test menu with a hotkey, but there isn't one set by default. 20170617 05:46:33< wesnoth-discord-> I'm assuming though that it's "unit_test" as in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_testing rather than tests of Wesnoth units. 20170617 06:03:00< wesnoth-discord-> Alright, thanks. 20170617 06:34:55-!- irco [~irco@HSI-KBW-091-089-111-002.hsi2.kabelbw.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170617 06:37:20-!- synthpopisback [~synthpopi@2606:a000:7947:5000:f475:562b:c70c:e063] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20170617 06:37:36-!- synthpopisback [~synthpopi@2606:a000:7947:5000:f475:562b:c70c:e063] has joined #wesnoth 20170617 06:49:51< wesnoth-discord-> More accurately, the unit test scenarios are WML tests. Thay are mainly sanity checks that WML works correctly. 20170617 07:11:14-!- Nobun [~nobun@5.170.107.174] has joined #wesnoth 20170617 07:27:20< wesnoth-discord-> @pydsigner seems just like it. What time is it at your place? It's like.. sunset, here. Anyways, I'll have a look in a sec. 20170617 07:27:53-!- zookeeper [zookeeper@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth 20170617 07:35:28< wesnoth-discord-> @Bitron well it's 2:30am now 20170617 07:38:30< wesnoth-discord-> Is Lord Protector Thadren existing or is it a brainchild of yours? I do have a hard time to filter what is actually your added stuff and what is already in Lore. 20170617 07:40:15< wesnoth-discord-> I made him up 20170617 07:40:31< wesnoth-discord-> And what about Kabrun? Is it typo? 20170617 07:40:49< wesnoth-discord-> Oops yes 20170617 07:42:13< wesnoth-discord-> Fixed 20170617 07:42:39< wesnoth-discord-> So, Rahul I was not the one who was behind the ambush that killed Karun? 20170617 07:43:00< wesnoth-discord-> Wait, have you played SotBE? 20170617 07:44:59< wesnoth-discord-> Not yet >.> I've read through parts of the dialoques, though. 20170617 07:45:30< wesnoth-discord-> Rahul I was not involved with the ambush, no. 20170617 07:46:21< wesnoth-discord-> I need to tweak my timeline though, just realized I have a departure from the campaign 20170617 07:48:48< wesnoth-discord-> Tweaked, meh. 20170617 07:49:50< wesnoth-discord-> "Rahul I resigns" is weak 20170617 07:50:14< wesnoth-discord-> But less problematic than making Kapou'e older 20170617 07:50:55< wesnoth-discord-> The real problem is that the "plot twist" in SotBE is played weakly 20170617 07:51:57< wesnoth-discord-> How do you get a guy who controls half a continent travelling hundreds of miles over dangerous terrain with a token force? 20170617 07:52:08< wesnoth-discord-> How does this guy get offed with no investigation? 20170617 07:52:48< wesnoth-discord-> Howgarth: "Oh we thought he declined the position" 20170617 07:53:26< wesnoth-discord-> Ok you numskulls, why was he travelling to Dwarven Doors and why does everyone blame the NA for killing him 20170617 07:53:29< wesnoth-discord-> Urgh. 20170617 07:54:11< zookeeper> "What? We received word that he declined our invitation and that was the end of the matter. I know nothing of his assassination. As a matter of fact, I was there when the orcish messenger brought Rahul Karun’s reply." 20170617 07:54:12< zookeeper> "Messenger, what messenger?" 20170617 07:54:17< zookeeper> "If I remember correctly, it was some orc named Shan Taum." 20170617 07:56:11< zookeeper> it's simple but i don't see any fundamental problem with that. 20170617 07:57:35< wesnoth-discord-> Let's say you spend 4 years trying to achieve peace with a powerful ruler, and once you sign the documents and go home, he dies mysteriously. 20170617 07:57:44< wesnoth-discord-> You wouldn't look into that at all? 20170617 07:58:04-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@112.64.217.91] has joined #wesnoth 20170617 07:58:30< zookeeper> i don't understand who is who in that analogy 20170617 07:59:08< wesnoth-discord-> The Black-Eye is the powerful ruler 20170617 07:59:09-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@112.64.217.91] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170617 07:59:26< wesnoth-discord-> You are Rahul I/the Northern Alliance 20170617 07:59:53< zookeeper> so what are the documents and going home about? 20170617 08:00:29< wesnoth-discord-> > Rahul I, Lord Protector of the Northern Alliance, concluded peace with enemy orcs during the fourth year of his leadership. He ended a 15-year war with Black-Eye Karun, ruler of the enemy orcs. A peace treaty between the Alliance and the orcs settled their territorial disputes. 20170617 08:00:40< wesnoth-discord-> > So impressed was Rahul with the intelligence, prowess and leadership of Black-Eye Karun that he invited him to become a Lord Companion of the Northern Alliance. After much deliberation Black-Eye Karun decided to accept the offer. However, on the way to the city of Dwarven Doors — the headquarters of the Northern Alliance — Karun and his small group of bodyguards were attacked and slain to the last man. There were no survi 20170617 08:00:41< wesnoth-discord-> to confirm the incident, but it soon became believed among the orcs that the Northern Alliance had deliberately set up this ambush in order to break the unity of the orcs by slaying their strongest leader. 20170617 08:00:45< zookeeper> ah, that treaty 20170617 08:01:36< wesnoth-discord-> Again, let me point out, "small group of bodyguards" is absolute plot-forcing baloney 20170617 08:02:04-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@112.64.217.91] has joined #wesnoth 20170617 08:02:16-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@112.64.217.91] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170617 08:02:20< wesnoth-discord-> You don't survive uniting every orc in the north under your banner and then make a long trek with a token guard 20170617 08:03:16< zookeeper> "Karun and his small group of bodyguards were attacked and slain to the last man" <- that doesn't say that was his whole entourage, only that only he and his bodyguards were attacked :p 20170617 08:05:05< wesnoth-discord-> >_> 20170617 08:08:15< zookeeper> the basic plot of "karun going to DD, gets assassinated, assassin delivers faked message to DD" is just fine. if you can tweak the wording so it doesn't sound like the greatest chieftain ever was trekking across the continent with a handful of guards only then sure that'd be good. 20170617 08:09:11< zookeeper> but if he's trekking across territory that's supposedly friendly with less than a huge army, then that's not a terribly plothole either. 20170617 08:09:25< zookeeper> why do i always typo terrible as terribly? i don't get it. 20170617 08:11:26< Nobun> zookeeper: perhaps becouse of a mind trap (associating words like 'absolutely', 'rightly', 'immediately' and similar) 20170617 08:11:46< Nobun> I think I would do the same mistake 20170617 08:11:47< wesnoth-discord-> What you want is an actual assassination, not an ambush and pitched battle 20170617 08:12:12< wesnoth-discord-> You could maybe follow up the assassination with an ambush while everyone's in a panic 20170617 08:12:16< zookeeper> maybe he was travelling light within the orcish lands with the intent of picking up shan taum and more grunts before crossing the heart mountains. it wasn't specified _where_ he got killed, after all. 20170617 08:12:18< wesnoth-discord-> Well, should he travel with an army? I think a smaller group wouldn't be too devious, when it's about signing papers. For sure, they had to be the best warriors of the orcs. With Karun as a great warrior, too. But who knows how well trained the assassins were. Might paves a way for an assassin league or something. 🤔 20170617 08:12:48< wesnoth-discord-> It's not about signing papers though, he did that beforehand 20170617 08:12:58< zookeeper> it's about signing papers of joining the NA 20170617 08:13:06< zookeeper> the peace treaty was separate 20170617 08:14:03< wesnoth-discord-> Who set the ambush up anyways? 20170617 08:14:17< wesnoth-discord-> Shan Taum 20170617 08:14:45< wesnoth-discord-> > Shan Taum the Smug, who was a rival of Black-Eye Karun. 20170617 08:15:48< wesnoth-discord-> Wow this is epically sketch 20170617 08:16:00< wesnoth-discord-> I really need to play SotBE... 20170617 08:19:18< zookeeper> do you get the same reaction about every fictional summary of past events? why do the details of "X was doing Y, was assassinated, Z resulted" need to be specifically pointed out? 20170617 08:19:46< wesnoth-discord-> They don't 20170617 08:20:06< wesnoth-discord-> But what details you do point out, should be believable. 20170617 08:21:22< wesnoth-discord-> Oh here's another reason the wiki timeline can't work 20170617 08:21:57< wesnoth-discord-> If Shan Taum is Black-Eye Karun's rival, then he was of age and influence. 20170617 08:22:19< wesnoth-discord-> Probably not 20. 20170617 08:24:38< zookeeper> "a leader is travelling lightly and discreetly with a smaller set of trusted men, gets ambushed and killed" sounds like a pretty standard trope to me and not unbelievable per se. 20170617 08:26:10< zookeeper> especially when it's an ambush by a traitor, not your everyday wesnothian random encounter 20170617 08:26:46< aeth> not dramatic enough 20170617 08:27:00< aeth> Why not have it be at a ceremony or something? 20170617 08:27:08< zookeeper> from all of the campaign lore that seems like the smallest kind of plot problem 20170617 08:27:38< aeth> The smallest problems are the easiest to bikeshed about. 20170617 08:29:37< zookeeper> aeth, what's more dramatic than a backstabbing betrayal of a legendary leader resulting in them being killed to the last man? 20170617 08:29:49< zookeeper> "at a ceremony", what? 20170617 08:30:33< aeth> The location of the betrayal could be more dramatic 20170617 08:31:00-!- TheJJ_ [~rofl@ipbcc36896.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20170617 08:32:03< zookeeper> i'll believe it when i see it 20170617 08:32:03-!- TheJJ [~rofl@ipbcc36896.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has joined #wesnoth 20170617 08:32:46< wesnoth-discord-> I wouldn't call one of your biggest rivals taking advantage of your stupidity "backstabbing betrayal" 20170617 08:33:33< aeth> Why should he die in battle, anyway? A poison death could help characterize the villain as a coward. 20170617 08:34:35< zookeeper> because shan taum pulling the same trick on you in the final scenario is of course intentionally the same setup 20170617 08:35:31< aeth> ah 20170617 08:35:53< Kwandulin> Wesnothian poison cannot kill units :< 20170617 08:35:57< aeth> I never paid much attention to the plot in Wesnoth 20170617 08:36:25< aeth> Kwandulin: Maybe a rat or bee then did 1 HP damage? 20170617 08:36:31< zookeeper> kapou'e/karun tries to deal with humans, shan taum don't like, shan taum ambushes. it's essentially the same setup both times. 20170617 08:36:54< Kwandulin> Then a rat or a bee is the rightful leader of the great horde now 20170617 08:37:01< zookeeper> :] 20170617 08:37:55< aeth> I wonder what the Wesnoth equivalent of 1 HP damage is. Wesnoth HP is fairly low by HP standards... 20170617 08:38:18< aeth> e.g. a papercut probably wouldn't do enough damage to register 20170617 08:41:13< zookeeper> btw, there's some UMC referring to kapou'e's offspring, which one might or might not want to consider: 20170617 08:41:15< zookeeper> 1.12/Rebellion_in_the_North/scenarios/22_Hopeful_Spring.cfg: story= _ "Nearly three decades after Karun's untimely death,his son Kapou'e established his capital at Barag Gor following a period of unrest.His son Krag Kumbha was based there until he was forced to escape when rebel forces surrounded the town on all sides." 20170617 08:41:15< zookeeper> 1.12/The_Rising_Underworld/scenarios/03_The_Ford_of_Abez.cfg: {TRU_MESSAGE "Maricus" (_"When Black-Eye Kapou'e died two years ago, his son, the rightful heir, experienced the most insubordination since his father's rise to power. He has now established his rule, but a few of his rival's generals are still refusing compliance. I expect a few more weeks before Ferok, the son of Kapou'e 20170617 08:41:15< zookeeper> and the New Black-Eye, will come to resolve this situation.")} 20170617 09:09:36< wesnoth-discord-> "two years ago" when did he say that? 20170617 09:10:16< wesnoth-discord-> "Krag Kumbha".. is Krag some kind of title? 20170617 09:14:17< wesnoth-discord-> and Ferok. So there are two sons. 20170617 09:20:08< zookeeper> but please don't just insert all that massive infodump of just-now-invented history and names and places and droughts and whatnot into the official timeline. 20170617 09:22:04< wesnoth-discord-> Im not sure im even able to do that. But I would not anyways until a decent amount of relevant people agreed to do so. ^^ 20170617 09:23:29< zookeeper> the timeline is not supposed to be a novel that you can read and get a sense of exactly how and why everything happened, it's supposed to contain canonical information about what did happen. 20170617 09:26:30< zookeeper> gaps need to exist, because without gaps you can't have new stories 20170617 09:27:14< zookeeper> if you have a detailed historical accounting of exactly what happened when and who did what and why even when those details are not actually directly relevant to any existing story, then you've just created a straightjacket for future stories 20170617 09:27:27-!- Nobun [~nobun@5.170.107.174] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20170617 09:31:35< zookeeper> yes, sometimes you need to add in things that aren't directly relevant to any existing story, but for example detailing the whos/hows/whys of a particular political struggle that's really only part of an existing story's backstory... not so much. because then you've just limited future stories about that struggle into being elaborations on what the timeline already says. 20170617 09:33:46< wesnoth-discord-> I'm aware of that. Originally this discussion started because of the odds with Kapou'e and Karun beeing so damn old, according from what is in that timeline. I think of it more like a 'what could be' to get a sense for when the relevant things, written in the timeline, should actually happen. Primarily it is about when Karun and Kapou'e are born. 20170617 09:33:53< wesnoth-discord-> we're free to retcon stuff as we please 20170617 09:35:21< wesnoth-discord-> Well, that would cause a mess, I guess. ^^ There should be some kind of sense behind it. 20170617 09:35:24< zookeeper> the value of having lots of lore that's already been decided to be ok to rewrite on a whim is pretty questionable. 20170617 09:35:36< zookeeper> then it's just lots of words 20170617 09:35:55< wesnoth-discord-> you say that as if we have a cohesive history 20170617 09:38:11< zookeeper> and you say that as if just having lots of expendable words is a good thing in itself 20170617 09:38:38< zookeeper> "having lots of lore is good" 20170617 09:38:54< zookeeper> it's not if it's not actual lore, but just stuff that gets changed whenever someone pleases 20170617 09:40:06< wesnoth-discord-> You miss my point entirely. 20170617 09:40:15< zookeeper> possibly 20170617 09:40:35-!- Kwandulin [~Kwandulin@p5DDD0E2F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20170617 09:41:14-!- Nobun [~nobun@5.170.111.17] has joined #wesnoth 20170617 09:41:41-!- Kwandulin [~Kwandulin@p200300760F7CBACA01C24F093927645E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth 20170617 09:47:08< wesnoth-discord-> Having good lore is good. No matter how much it is. And I think saying most of the orcs are not getting over they thrirties, the oldest known are between 50 and 60 and than having Karun killed at the age of about 70 sounds just not good to me. I don't want to rewrite something 'out of a whim'. It's reasonable to rethink that part of history. 20170617 09:48:39< zookeeper> of course. tweaking the dates so that karun's and kapoue's ages make sense is good. 20170617 09:50:02< wesnoth-discord-> That's what I wanted to actually change. Everything else was just crazy talk. Maybe ideas for campaigns. 20170617 09:50:26< wesnoth-discord-> whatsoever. 20170617 09:59:12-!- Kwandulin [~Kwandulin@p200300760F7CBACA01C24F093927645E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20170617 10:01:11< zookeeper> sure. maybe it could be a good idea to somehow differentiate between strictly canonical information supported by mainline campaigns and more "speculative" entries. 20170617 10:03:58< zookeeper> if it was clear which entries are the kind of filler that isn't verified in canonical content (campaigns), then that kind of stuff could be more liberally sprinkled in. 20170617 10:04:47-!- Kwandulin [~Kwandulin@p200300760F7CBACA01C24F093927645E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth 20170617 10:38:55-!- cc___ [~ac@2001:910:113f:1:6a05:caff:fe1c:1627] has joined #wesnoth 20170617 10:43:04< wesnoth-discord-> https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=46433&p=614322#p614322 I split the suggested timeline in relevant and not so relevant. 20170617 10:43:19< wesnoth-discord-> @pydsigner ^ 20170617 10:50:34-!- Kranix [~magnus@x1-6-74-44-01-e4-f1-52.cpe.webspeed.dk] has joined #wesnoth 20170617 11:12:04-!- Nobun [~nobun@5.170.111.17] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20170617 11:16:17-!- Kranix [~magnus@x1-6-74-44-01-e4-f1-52.cpe.webspeed.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20170617 11:45:34-!- Kwandulin [~Kwandulin@p200300760F7CBACA01C24F093927645E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20170617 12:35:00-!- jorgesumle [~jorge@119.red-95-123-192.staticip.rima-tde.net] has joined #wesnoth 20170617 12:35:38< jorgesumle> It's Libregamenight. We're playing Wesnoth online this week. Join us in #lgn 20170617 12:56:24-!- cc___ [~ac@2001:910:113f:1:6a05:caff:fe1c:1627] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.6] 20170617 13:15:29-!- Nobun [~nobun@5.170.104.234] has joined #wesnoth 20170617 13:30:33-!- Nobun [~nobun@5.170.104.234] has quit [Quit: Salve a tutti] 20170617 13:42:44-!- sevu [~Shiki@141.57.60.71] has joined #wesnoth 20170617 13:47:13-!- Kwandulin [~Kwandulin@p200300760F7CBACA01C24F093927645E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth 20170617 14:18:59-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has joined #wesnoth 20170617 14:23:19-!- celmin [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has joined #wesnoth 20170617 14:23:19-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has quit [Disconnected by services] 20170617 14:23:19-!- celmin is now known as celticminstrel 20170617 14:29:59-!- celmin [~celticmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has joined #wesnoth 20170617 14:39:56< wesnoth-discord-> @Bitron working on my reply, thanks for doing that though. 20170617 14:41:25< wesnoth-discord-> zookeeper: it'd definitely be worth-while to add some sort of indication like that to the wiki, because currently everything is presented as equal fact 20170617 14:41:38< celmin> ? 20170617 14:44:22< wesnoth-discord-> celmin: For example, the wiki states that in 563YW, Konrad and Li'sar die, leaving Princess Ana'sar to succeed them. "Ana'sar" is mentioned no-where in the game. 20170617 14:44:49< celmin> Huh. 20170617 14:46:08-!- claymore [~claymore@unaffiliated/claymore] has joined #wesnoth 20170617 14:51:06-!- Kwandulin [~Kwandulin@p200300760F7CBACA01C24F093927645E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20170617 15:07:18-!- THERetroGamerNY [THERetroGa@pool-68-133-48-135.bflony.fios.verizon.net] has joined #wesnoth 20170617 15:22:30-!- Kranix [~magnus@x1-6-74-44-01-e4-f1-52.cpe.webspeed.dk] has joined #wesnoth 20170617 15:33:12-!- wario [~wario_@unaffiliated/wario] has joined #wesnoth 20170617 15:34:15< janebot> Tweet (by @Wesnoth) How have your experiences with 1.13 been so far, performance wise? Let us know here! https://r.wesnoth.org/t46442 #gamedev [ https://twitter.com/Wesnoth/status/876100683128127488 ] 20170617 15:34:36< janebot> Tweet (by @Wesnoth) (RT @shikadilord) Sneaky peaky. Very WIP, much broken. So design. @Wesnoth https://t.co/t3WI89QEfq [ https://twitter.com/Wesnoth/status/876100771636420608 ] 20170617 15:35:25< wesnoth-discord-> Seems that uploading preprocessed ageless was good idea, now I dont need to go asking for units.wesnoth timeout increase again; now it manages with 20sec 20170617 15:36:20< wesnoth-discord-> good luck on anyone who wants to look at the code for reference 😛 20170617 15:36:31< wesnoth-discord-> its conditionally loaded only 20170617 15:36:38< wesnoth-discord-> original code is also included 20170617 15:37:09< wesnoth-discord-> i see 20170617 15:38:41< wesnoth-discord-> 2751 units, so I can call it 2800 20170617 15:39:23< celmin> I can't seem to see whatever shadowm posted. 20170617 15:42:53< wesnoth-discord-> It seems like something I would like to see only soon, because its looking good. :x 20170617 15:50:09< wesnoth-discord-> I might need to remove translation marks though, else factions names in unit tree can look like AE - #textdomain wesnoth-Ageless_Era 20170617 15:59:43< wesnoth-discord-> celmin: the tweet? 20170617 15:59:49< celmin> Yeah. 20170617 15:59:54< wesnoth-discord-> @Bitron forum post made. 20170617 16:01:10< wesnoth-discord-> celmin: can you see this? https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DCQ2UYtXkAEjGzr.png 20170617 16:01:24< celmin> Yup. 20170617 16:01:48< celmin> So basically a new wiki theme? 20170617 16:02:07< wesnoth-discord-> Not just the wiki. 20170617 16:02:34< wesnoth-discord-> This is just an update on the new website theme shadowm has being working on for some time now 20170617 16:04:17-!- jorgesumle [~jorge@119.red-95-123-192.staticip.rima-tde.net] has left #wesnoth [] 20170617 16:04:18< sevu> looks more modern 20170617 16:07:26-!- Kwandulin [~Kwandulin@p200300760F7CBACA01C24F093927645E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth 20170617 16:08:08< celmin> Ah. 20170617 16:33:39-!- celmin [~celticmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has quit [Quit: And lo! The minstrel departs, to spread the music to the masses!] 20170617 16:33:44-!- bumbadadabum [~bumbadada@wesnoth/developer/bumbadadabum] has joined #wesnoth 20170617 17:06:28-!- bumbadadabum [~bumbadada@wesnoth/developer/bumbadadabum] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20170617 17:16:02-!- Bonobo [~Bonobo@61.68.170.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20170617 17:37:09-!- bumbadadabum [~bumbadada@wesnoth/developer/bumbadadabum] has joined #wesnoth 20170617 17:37:16< wesnoth-discord-> @pydsigner How likely is it that Kapou'e went back to Melmog after SotBE? Or does he stay in Barag Gor? 20170617 17:41:35< wesnoth-discord-> @Bitron I figured he goes back to Melmog. 20170617 17:44:35< wesnoth-discord-> Well, in that case, have to rewrite my campaign... Did Kapou'e join the NA after all? 20170617 17:56:43< wesnoth-discord-> and @zookeeper (there are three of you in here, btw), there is a huge mountain in the centre of "Mountains of Haag" southeast to Borstep. Is there anything particular to know about it or is it just a very big mountain? 20170617 17:58:35-!- wesnoth-discord- [~wesnoth-d@baldras.wesnoth.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170617 17:59:00-!- wesnoth-discord- [~wesnoth-d@baldras.wesnoth.org] has joined #wesnoth 20170617 18:00:08-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has quit [Quit: So long and thanks for all the fish.] 20170617 18:02:39< zookeeper> there's zero of me there :p must just be some relics from my visits via the web interface. 20170617 18:03:20< zookeeper> and no, no particular significance to the mountain. just a very big mountain. 20170617 18:06:01 * zookeeper wonders how does one become an orcish shaman 20170617 18:07:27< wesnoth-discord-> I've wondered the same 20170617 18:08:01< wesnoth-discord-> I'd assume an apprenticeship-type thing 20170617 18:08:16< zookeeper> i suppose they must have healers and other civilian roles, so shamanism could be something like that 20170617 18:09:41< wesnoth-discord-> I'd say it is either a general interest of some orcs or some kind of "gift" so that only a few can actually practice it. But I think the first is more likely. (Similar to what pydsigner just suggested) 20170617 18:11:06< wesnoth-discord-> ```Respected among orcish tribes, they form the Orcish Council, which makes important decisions for the whole Orcish community and arbitrates the many conflicts that arise between tribes of this argumentative race.``` 20170617 18:11:36< wesnoth-discord-> ^and this. 20170617 18:12:04< zookeeper> another question is, why do the tribes respect some old weaklings who at best have some weak magical powers 20170617 18:12:17< wesnoth-discord-> (invented) While demiorcs are weaker than their full-blooded brothers, some are born both with a keen mind and an aversion to violence. Many of these turn to their clan shamans for advice and training, becoming healers and wise men among their people 20170617 18:12:36< wesnoth-discord-> @zookeeper Maybe they fear magic. 20170617 18:12:39< zookeeper> ah, yeah. something like that would work. 20170617 18:13:26< zookeeper> @Bitron, they don't seem to fear magic when fighting fireball-casting mages left and right all the time :p 20170617 18:13:28< wesnoth-discord-> The unit description for the shamans in SotBE needs improvement, maybe that text could be a rough draft? 20170617 18:14:09< wesnoth-discord-> I think it's a kinda a situation of confused respect 20170617 18:14:28< zookeeper> maybe. i'd definitely avoid a phrasing like "an aversion to violence" though, and rather emphasize that they have some kind of natural talent for curses and communicating with spirits and that sort of thing. 20170617 18:15:04< wesnoth-discord-> "why would you not want to fight? That's really wierd" but they know who to go to when no-one can get the arrow out. 20170617 18:16:01< zookeeper> they're probably just smart enough to realize that you don't need to flip out and kill people all the time. 20170617 18:16:21< wesnoth-discord-> Possibly 20170617 18:16:51< Kwandulin> Yes, spirits! Maybe they have dreams/hallucinations/you name it that force them to leave behind their home, descend into the wilderness and do something to serve the spirits in order to get the magical powers 20170617 18:17:21< Kwandulin> Apprenticeship is a bad idea, imho. Then there'd be a lot more shamans, I suppose. But there are only very few 20170617 18:18:10-!- synthpopisback [~synthpopi@2606:a000:7947:5000:f475:562b:c70c:e063] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20170617 18:19:06< zookeeper> eh, i dunno. i mean it could just be a relatively common civilian role and we just usually don't see them. when's the last time you've seen a loyalist blacksmith? 20170617 18:20:30< zookeeper> it would be a bit silly if the ones forming the great council were the _only_ shamans, instead of just the oldest/wisest/whatever ones 20170617 18:22:07< wesnoth-discord-> If not through their strength, they indeed could respected by their ability to heal, or the sense for doing the right thing in specific situations (mostly called "wisdom"). Or they are able to have some kind of visions. @Kwandulin even if it's an apprentinceship, not all orcs might be able to master the art of it, especially when it's about orcs and wisdom. @zookeeper most of the not-shaman-orcs just die before they could get 20170617 18:22:07< wesnoth-discord-> old or wise, I guess. But it might be that someone like Kapou'e join the Great Council at some point. 20170617 18:27:19< zookeeper> i think it makes most sense that shamanism is just one of those features of orcish culture that we haven't seen much of. about 1 in N orcs are born with some kind of talent for shamanism, and get adopted into the shaman caste which is rather isolated from everyone else, except when their consultation is wanted on something. 20170617 18:29:20< zookeeper> as an GoT/ASoIaF parallel: a bit like orcish maesters, except not as visible 20170617 18:29:28< wesnoth-discord-> Here's the thing, we don't see anything about orcish culture outside of SotBE because they only show up to be the antagonist 20170617 18:30:15< wesnoth-discord-> I plan to have an orcish shaman appear in my campaign though. 20170617 18:30:59< zookeeper> i wish i had a good scenario designer and writer to do my bidding 20170617 18:31:09-!- sevu [~Shiki@141.57.60.71] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170617 18:31:16< wesnoth-discord-> Hehe. 20170617 18:31:45< Kwandulin> Doesnt the Founding of Borstep also utilize shamans? 20170617 18:32:23< zookeeper> i don't recall, but i'd be very surprised if it didn't 20170617 18:32:33< wesnoth-discord-> ^ 20170617 18:32:34< wesnoth-discord-> *A Vilkish Tale* does that, too. :P 20170617 18:33:16< wesnoth-discord-> Haven't played that one. Heard the author hasn't played SotBE though 20170617 18:33:26< wesnoth-discord-> 😉 20170617 18:33:42< wesnoth-discord-> true. 😔 20170617 18:34:15< wesnoth-discord-> Well, a little, but not complete. 20170617 18:35:37< wesnoth-discord-> There's a couple campaigns I never completed but I've read all of them. 20170617 18:36:11< wesnoth-discord-> Gave up on NR on the final scenario because it's stupidly overloaded with units 20170617 18:36:31-!- Nobun [~nobun@5.170.106.19] has joined #wesnoth 20170617 18:40:23< wesnoth-discord-> Well, AVT is still in developement (actually it is the reason why I questioned all the stuff about Karun and Kapou'e) and I have to rewrite even more things now, so don't take the effort to play it now. ^^ 20170617 18:42:06< Nobun> Question about text encodings and text editors: (related to this issue: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/issues/1785 ) 20170617 18:43:34< Nobun> I tried to make a 'fix experiment' on a text editor. I had an old text file (a .cfg one of a never published campaign I did and never completed) containing an unvalid UTF8 character 20170617 18:44:10< Nobun> (that character was è, and the file was probably coded in ISO-something instead of UTF-8 20170617 18:44:56< Nobun> I tried to edit it with Kate (configured to use UTF-8 encoding) and saving it again will not do any magic 20170617 18:46:13< wesnoth-discord-> So you're looking for help to fix it? 20170617 18:47:04< Nobun> nope 20170617 18:48:02< Nobun> I need help to understand the proper way to fix an unvalid byte on a text editor to make a right suggestion to write to end-user of wmlxgettext wich is notifyed he had a file containing UTF-8 character 20170617 18:48:38< Nobun> in linux a nice way is using iconv, but I don't think it is something a windows user could do (without cygwin or similar) 20170617 18:50:32< zookeeper> i feel like you're looking for a way other than "erase those characters and re-type them" 20170617 18:52:05-!- clavi [~clavi@v22017034422546657.goodsrv.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20170617 18:52:36-!- Kwandulin [~Kwandulin@p200300760F7CBACA01C24F093927645E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20170617 18:53:43-!- clavi [~clavi@v22017034422546657.goodsrv.de] has joined #wesnoth 20170617 18:59:59-!- DeFender1031 [~DeFender1@89-138-182-62.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #wesnoth 20170617 19:08:38< Nobun> zookeeper: exactly... becouse, in my experiment simply erasing character and RE-TYPE them does not fix the issue (or it does not fix it using Kate editor) 20170617 19:09:12< Nobun> I could fix, for example, replacing è wiith e' 20170617 19:09:21< wesnoth-discord-> Can you link your broken file? 20170617 19:09:31< zookeeper> that's pretty surprising if you do the re-typing after setting the encoding to the right one 20170617 19:10:32< Nobun> yes... it is the one I used to develop the wmlxgettext issue fix (pending PR... but please still don't merge it). 20170617 19:12:43-!- Kwandulin [~Kwandulin@p200300760F7CBACA01C24F093927645E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth 20170617 19:13:01< Nobun> here is the link: https://github.com/AncientLich/wmlxgettext-unoff/blob/master/wmlxgettext/test/reports/2017.06.15/05_The_Underground_Path.cfg 20170617 19:13:28< wesnoth-discord-> `# da modificare - devo aggiungerci la condizione "se il turno 23 non � stato raggiunto"` 20170617 19:13:44< Nobun> Those, also, my kate settings are those ones: 20170617 19:14:06< Nobun> Encoding: Unicode UTF-8 20170617 19:14:16< Nobun> Encoding Detection: Universal 20170617 19:14:58< Nobun> Fallback Encoding: Western European 20170617 19:15:13< Nobun> End of Line: Linux 20170617 19:15:39< Nobun> yes, pydsigner... exactly that was the line 20170617 19:16:10< wesnoth-discord-> It looks like c + ˇ for me 20170617 19:17:01< Ravana_> or xE8 after selecting utf8 20170617 19:17:23< wesnoth-discord-> Nobun: Pulling up that file in Geany for me shows ISO-8859-1 for me, not UTF-8 20170617 19:17:27< Nobun> what I'm trying to understand is... 1) Am I doing something wrong when trying to fix the UTF-8 error? (see my kate settings above) 20170617 19:17:50< Nobun> exactly, pydsigner... that was the coding of the file originally used 20170617 19:18:05< wesnoth-discord-> I don't have Kate installed, but I believe that yes, you're doing something not quite right 20170617 19:18:30< celticminstrel> Using an ISO-8859-1 file for testing bad UTF-8 detection sounds like a reasonable method, maybe? 20170617 19:18:39< Nobun> what I linked is the original file I used to test the UNVALID-UTF-8 to manage the case and show a meaningful message error on wmlxgettext 20170617 19:19:09< wesnoth-discord-> Nobun: right, but if you aren't able to convert it to UTF-8 with Kate, something's amiss 20170617 19:19:25< Nobun> exactly... 20170617 19:19:49< Nobun> what I'm trying to understand is... is it something I miss (for example I can solve using the iconv command line on linux) 20170617 19:19:57< celticminstrel> The byte sequence 0xE8 is not valid UTF-8 IIUC. 20170617 19:20:04< Nobun> or is it a general problem? 20170617 19:20:16-!- claymore [~claymore@unaffiliated/claymore] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20170617 19:20:28< celticminstrel> The UTF-8 encoding of è is 0xC3 0xA8. 20170617 19:20:34< wesnoth-discord-> Nobun: I've got it open in Kate now, let me see how to convert it 20170617 19:21:42< wesnoth-discord-> Trying to set the encoding seems to just change how Kate opens the file 20170617 19:22:39< Nobun> yeah... my final target is not to fix the file itself, but what exactly suggest UMC authors what to do if they had an unvalid UTF8 character (so, probably, a text file wich uses a different text encoding) and how to fix the issue properly 20170617 19:23:30< wesnoth-discord-> Nobun: ok, so in Kate, you have to select "Save as with encoding" from the file menu 20170617 19:23:42< Nobun> to make an error message on wmlxgettext wich give the best suggestion to UMC author wich had that error 20170617 19:24:13< wesnoth-discord-> In Geany, Document » Set Encoding 20170617 19:24:35-!- celmin [~celticmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has joined #wesnoth 20170617 19:24:55< wesnoth-discord-> Nobun: the general suggestion to make is "you may need to change the encoding of your file to UTF-8" or something along those lines. 20170617 19:25:17< wesnoth-discord-> Every editor will be different. 20170617 19:26:02< Nobun> yep... that seems a nice hint, pydsigner 20170617 19:26:08< Nobun> I like it 20170617 19:26:45< wesnoth-discord-> Better than "change the encoding" might be "resave your file with UTF-8 encoding" but IDK. 20170617 19:28:28< Nobun> Better again could be change text editor encoding setting (to avoid this issue for the future) and resave your file with UTF-8 encoding (to fix the current file) 20170617 19:42:33< Nobun> http://dpaste.com/3CZGYQ1 20170617 19:42:47< Nobun> what do you think about this error message text? 20170617 19:44:12< wesnoth-discord-> Last line should be "To avoid this problem in the future, you might want to set the default encoding of your editor to UTF-8." 20170617 19:44:30< Nobun> ok. It sound better. 20170617 19:44:37< celmin> Seems good to me. 20170617 19:45:03< celmin> Including pydsigner's amendment. 20170617 19:46:00< Nobun> ok... I will write the new commit to PR with the fixed error message text 20170617 19:46:14< Nobun> and fix the typo you marked, celmin :P 20170617 19:47:26< Nobun> however I would suggest to wait to merge the PR until servu will say if using wmlxgettext in the proper way I suggested, the other issue he reported is solved or not (but I assume yes... the problem it has should be caused by output redirection) 20170617 19:48:26< Nobun> (sorry: sevu NOT servu) 20170617 19:50:45-!- jemadux [~jemadux@unaffiliated/jemadux] has joined #wesnoth 20170617 19:50:50-!- Kwandulin [~Kwandulin@p200300760F7CBACA01C24F093927645E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20170617 19:51:25< wesnoth-discord-> A question about campaign design, well, or rather personal preferences in playing campaigns: Would you either play just one side (the Protagonist's side) with having an allied ai which is somewhat unpredictable, or, in case of having an ally, both sides for more control over the overall situation, but with a less "rpg'ish" feeling because you don't just control the protagonist? 20170617 19:52:08< Nobun> Bitron: personally I would say 'it depends' 20170617 19:52:40< Nobun> for example in a campaign I never published I did both solutions 20170617 19:53:36< Nobun> the first time the allied side is controlled by computer, and there is a reason. You are going to saurians to ask them help. In that scenario they are allied to you, but they are not on your command 20170617 19:54:31< Nobun> in a second moment, your team will be divided in two: one leaded by your main character. The other teamed by the leader of saurians. In that case you will control both sides. 20170617 19:54:57< Nobun> (in another scenario, when you two are already actually allied) 20170617 19:56:53< Nobun> you can also think of telling a story of two different characters, making some scenario dedicated to one, and some other dedicated to the other. You could create situations like... at a certain moment they will be help each other (without actually allied) so controlling both could have sense 20170617 20:03:21< wesnoth-discord-> That's common sense I guess, but I spefifically meant a side, which is *not* under the command of the protagonist, but an ally. I think about that because of a "siege" style scenario, where it would be way better for the player to have the control of the defending dwarves as well, not only over the helping hand coming from the west. 20170617 20:09:44< Nobun> Bitron I understood. In the other scenario, when the team is divided in two, the other side is under the command of the ally, and you control both sides. 20170617 20:11:14< Nobun> what I'm trying to say is... "for me it is nice if an ally (not protagonist) is controlled by player at a certain moment of the story". But I added that, if you can control it, you should have narrative reasons to do it. 20170617 20:12:00< Nobun> For example I remember a scenario of a campaign, where you control an ally wich stays in the scenario (unlike hero and other people) to let hero escape and try to stop the followers from back. 20170617 20:12:22< Nobun> In that case, "control another character by human" is meaningful. 20170617 20:16:15< wesnoth-discord-> I see. Well.. I'll stick with the ai then. 20170617 20:16:48< Nobun> Well... this is only personal opinion 20170617 20:18:36< Nobun> Another reason could be 'allow the player to see what happens in another places' (for example... could be a nice idea to let the player to play the antagonist for a bit of time to let the player to know antagonist attitudes better) 20170617 20:19:16< Nobun> so... there are a lot of reasons why you could want player to control a side not leaded by protaginist 20170617 20:20:12< Nobun> but there are also reasons to don't do it (and allow PC to play an ally side). It depends of what do you want to narrate, imho. 20170617 20:22:27< zookeeper> i think at the very least you should avoid situations where a character or units previously controlled by the player are now under AI control, and then you get to control them again later. 20170617 20:23:06< zookeeper> because you don't want to take the player's units away from them, let the AI play dumb with them, and then give them back the player later. that'd be very annoying. 20170617 20:25:16< wesnoth-discord-> Unfortunately, there is really no reason to control the second side but the strategical advantage (because the player usually does a better job than the ai) and the increased playtime. What actually reminds me of an issue in httt. There were complains about watching all the ai's doing too many meaningless moves. One could give the player control over the other elves. Than again, it would not make any sense storywise and 20170617 20:25:17< wesnoth-discord-> atmospheric. 20170617 20:27:41< zookeeper> in general, AI allies can be pretty annoying if a lot depends on their moves. you don't want the player to have a really hard time with a scenario simply because on their playthrough the AI did some really dumb moves. 20170617 20:28:27< wesnoth-discord-> Yes, thats why I concidered it in the first place. 20170617 20:28:55< zookeeper> same if the AI steals a lot of your kills, etc. it's not so bad if the AI is mainly engaged with a different enemy than the player, or something like that. 20170617 20:29:13< wesnoth-discord-> suggestion: is is possible to cache the addon list? I'm on a quite slow connection and it takes a couple minutes to download. It's very annoying when I have to download like six addons. 20170617 20:29:24< wesnoth-discord-> Could easily use etags to determine when a redownload is required 20170617 20:31:18< celmin> Oh yeah, it's kinda silly that it has to redownload the list after every operation. 20170617 20:31:20< zookeeper> basically i think you want to avoid situations where you'd actually need to coordinate specific moves with the AI, but (obviously) cannot. if the AI makes some strategic blunders and you need to help them out a bit then that's okay, but if you constantly find yourself wishing you could tell the AI not to block your moves or otherwise interfere with your tactics, then that's not so great. 20170617 20:32:18-!- Nobun [~nobun@5.170.106.19] has quit [Quit: Salve a tutti] 20170617 20:32:38< wesnoth-discord-> another option would be to make it possible to bulk install mods 20170617 20:33:20< zookeeper> one ideal setup might be that the AI and the player are mostly fighting separate enemies, but the player can use a subset of their units to help the AI out at well-chosen times and places. 20170617 20:33:32< zookeeper> or something like that, anyway. 20170617 20:34:11< zookeeper> the third liberty scenario comes to mind, although don't quote me saying it has great gameplay. the general setup just seems relatively sound as far as cooperating with an AI goes. 20170617 20:34:56< celmin> Bulk install could be handy. Add a checkbox to each row, and have an Install Selected button, or something like that. 20170617 20:35:08< wesnoth-discord-> Well. I could let the player choose weather he wants to play the second side or leave it to the ai. former would result in less gold for the second side to hold the balance. 20170617 20:35:46< wesnoth-discord-> That'd be nice but bulk install still isn't an excuse for not using cache invalidation 20170617 20:35:52< Polsaker> celmin: I'll open an issue on github so it can be discussed there 20170617 20:36:26< celmin> Good idea. 20170617 20:36:34< wesnoth-discord-> @Bitron I wouldn't suggest that 20170617 20:36:58< wesnoth-discord-> Either there's a plot reason to control the side, or it shouldn't been done IMO 20170617 20:37:00< celmin> Yeah, I don't think I'd suggest allowing the player to choose whether to control a side. 20170617 20:37:37-!- THERetroGamerNY [THERetroGa@pool-68-133-48-135.bflony.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Be Blessed!] 20170617 20:39:48< wesnoth-discord-> I see. Well, it's settled then. 20170617 20:44:40< zookeeper> of course you could insert some in-universe justification for why you get to control an ally side yourself. for example if the allies aren't very good at this war thing, then your right-hand lieutenant might be placed on their side for that scenario to signify that it's really you who are leading them in practise if not in name. of course that would only work in some specific circumstances, 20170617 20:44:40< zookeeper> but still. 20170617 20:51:42< wesnoth-discord-> Well, it's the *Siege of Antoria*. Some elves and humans decided to attack a well-staffed dwarven city where the leader is side 2 and the player is a little tribe which somehow got into this mess. No reason at all for them to have control over the dwarvish units. 20170617 20:52:34< zookeeper> ah, okay. yeah, if the ally is the bigger in-universe faction then controlling them doesn't make much sense. 20170617 20:54:00< zookeeper> if the narration is otherwise from a suitable viewpoint (omnipresent, or in past tense, or something) then i suppose a good writer might be able to switch the viewpoint for one scenario, but... 20170617 20:54:11< zookeeper> seems rather tricky 20170617 20:54:55-!- jemadux [~jemadux@unaffiliated/jemadux] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170617 21:58:41-!- metronomicon [~metronomi@2a02:587:a23:2b00:c9f1:1276:79d6:cf6] has joined #wesnoth 20170617 22:02:46-!- aeth [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20170617 22:12:27< wesnoth-discord-> Are there deamons in mainline?+ 20170617 22:22:32< zookeeper> only the ixthala demon in UtBS 20170617 22:24:08< zookeeper> of course, the word "demon" is mentioned in many campaigns. 20170617 22:25:27< zookeeper> (i also highly suggest acquiring means of quickly finding text matches like that yourself) 20170617 22:31:03-!- celmin [~celticmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has quit [Quit: And lo! The minstrel departs, to spread the music to the masses!] 20170617 22:36:58-!- wario [~wario_@unaffiliated/wario] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20170617 23:20:42-!- zookeeper [zookeeper@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20170617 23:35:00-!- celmin [~celticmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has joined #wesnoth 20170617 23:46:25< wesnoth-discord-> ❤ grep 20170617 23:50:04-!- vultraz_iOS [uid24821@wesnoth/developer/vultraz] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 20170617 23:56:00-!- Appleman1234 [~quassel@z190230.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170617 23:57:12-!- Appleman1234 [~quassel@z190230.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #wesnoth --- Log closed Sun Jun 18 00:00:04 2017