--- Log opened Tue Jun 27 00:00:15 2017 20170627 00:21:05-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@140.207.223.167] has joined #wesnoth 20170627 00:21:17-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@140.207.223.167] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170627 00:38:39-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@140.207.223.167] has joined #wesnoth 20170627 00:44:57-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@140.207.223.167] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20170627 01:01:04-!- Aumpa [~Aumpa@2605:e000:151f:43d9:681a:90bf:6d05:ff12] has joined #wesnoth 20170627 01:08:34-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@112.64.216.90] has joined #wesnoth 20170627 01:10:02-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@112.64.216.90] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170627 01:19:17-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@112.64.217.90] has joined #wesnoth 20170627 01:20:11-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@112.64.217.90] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170627 01:26:46-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@112.64.217.90] has joined #wesnoth 20170627 01:29:45-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@112.64.217.90] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170627 01:41:38-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@112.64.217.90] has joined #wesnoth 20170627 01:41:52-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@112.64.217.90] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170627 01:52:52-!- sevu [~Shiki@p54854B88.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170627 01:57:44-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@112.64.217.90] has joined #wesnoth 20170627 01:58:23-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@112.64.217.90] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170627 01:59:16-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@112.64.216.90] has joined #wesnoth 20170627 01:59:38-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@112.64.216.90] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170627 02:05:03-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@112.64.216.90] has joined #wesnoth 20170627 02:05:46-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@112.64.216.90] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170627 02:22:40-!- ArneBab_ [~quassel@freenet/developer/arnebab] has joined #wesnoth 20170627 02:26:41-!- ArneBab [~quassel@freenet/developer/arnebab] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20170627 02:56:43-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170627 02:56:50-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20170627 03:16:57-!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20170627 04:05:15-!- Nobun [~nobun@5.170.106.148] has joined #wesnoth 20170627 04:08:24< Nobun> celticminstrel: about your last review of my PR: I don't get your last point ("which is something you would normally avoid" - basically swapping two words and removing the "it") 20170627 04:08:55< Nobun> (wring here so I will not disturb the active discussion at #wesnoth-dev) 20170627 04:08:55< celticminstrel> The quoted text is the suggested replacement. 20170627 04:09:10< celticminstrel> The rest of that is my explanation of what I changed to get that. 20170627 04:09:11< Nobun> ah ok. I didn't get it 20170627 04:09:25< celticminstrel> Do you get it now? 20170627 04:09:34< Nobun> yes, thank :) 20170627 04:10:03< Nobun> (I am not a native english speaker, so I really appreciate those kind of corrections) 20170627 04:37:14-!- Aumpa_ [~Aumpa@2605:e000:151f:43d9:ac85:cd36:a7db:3184] has joined #wesnoth 20170627 04:38:20-!- Aumpa__ [~Aumpa@2605:e000:151f:43d9:e962:af2e:1f28:82bf] has joined #wesnoth 20170627 04:38:55-!- Aumpa___ [~Aumpa@cpe-45-48-103-109.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #wesnoth 20170627 04:40:02-!- Aumpa [~Aumpa@2605:e000:151f:43d9:681a:90bf:6d05:ff12] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20170627 04:40:24-!- Kwandulin [~Kwandulin@p200300760F7CBA940D8A53F973108F9F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth 20170627 04:41:19-!- Aumpa_ [~Aumpa@2605:e000:151f:43d9:ac85:cd36:a7db:3184] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20170627 04:42:22-!- Aumpa__ [~Aumpa@2605:e000:151f:43d9:e962:af2e:1f28:82bf] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20170627 04:44:56-!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #wesnoth 20170627 04:53:42-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has quit [Quit: And lo! 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[Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20170627 09:43:19-!- starscream [~zf@natsaa.net] has joined #wesnoth 20170627 10:46:40< wesnoth-discord-> @zookeeper is there any chance to get a map of what's in the the east of Wesnoth/Farnorth? I found one, but it's rather old and does not really fit to your new bigmaps. 20170627 10:53:02< zookeeper> that depends 20170627 10:54:51< wesnoth-discord-> depends on? 20170627 10:55:44< zookeeper> on whether i have anything to go by. unless you just want me to come up with literally anything, which sounds unlikely if you actually need the map for anything in particular. 20170627 10:59:49< zookeeper> it's uncharted, so if i should chart it then it should be based on some actual needs, whether mainline or UMC 20170627 11:01:29< zookeeper> huge glacier? endless steppes? an eastern coast? a coastline that actually goes way further north? islands, forests, mountains? 20170627 11:06:23< wesnoth-discord-> Actually, anything. http://up.picr.de/29610393zr.jpg Thats the Map I found. Don't remember where, though, but the red marked area is the one I am looking for, preferably the blue area. In case the map is canon, everything is fine and I can use just what I just sent you, but like I said, it does not really fit to the new bigmaps here: https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=38186&hilit=new+bigmaps Especially the farnorth, 20170627 11:06:24< wesnoth-discord-> which is important since it's about a faction moving from whatever is east of farnorth into the farnorth. 20170627 11:15:39< zookeeper> this is as far east as i've even tentatively sketched anything: https://www.dropbox.com/s/3akpq6k9j5hoqrt/great_continent_latest.png?dl=0 20170627 11:16:57< zookeeper> plenty of room between lintanir and the big lake for that mountain range in the middle of your blue area 20170627 11:18:25< zookeeper> you're welcome to take that image, expand it further east and sketch in the different terrain types in a way that you think would work well 20170627 11:19:10< wesnoth-discord-> Yellow is both ice and sand plains? 20170627 11:19:18< zookeeper> yeah 20170627 11:19:34< zookeeper> deserts/wastelands of any kind 20170627 11:19:50< wesnoth-discord-> Alright, perfect. Just what I needed, thank you! 20170627 11:21:05< zookeeper> i'm not really on the map (pun intended) WRT what UMC are still alive and well enough to warrant building the geography with them in mind 20170627 11:23:32< zookeeper> and when no mainline content demands the eastern lands to be charted, i have no particular stake in what goes where (beyond basic sanity-checking), so if people want me to draw new maps of those lands then they need to at least present suggestions for what the geography should be like. 20170627 11:24:49< zookeeper> of course it'd be nice if it could be made to accommodate or at least not outright contradict as much UMC as possible, but as said i don't have the means to ensure that 20170627 11:26:13< wesnoth-discord-> Yeah, fair enough. I'll look what I can do. 20170627 11:26:58< zookeeper> ideally, authors of All The Bestest UMC Campaigns (tm) could collaboratively figure out what exact demands there are and come up with some kind of sketch for it that i could then just implement 20170627 11:28:52< zookeeper> i could just play at being a fantasy cartographer and draw the whole continent in a way that i find pleasing, but that feels backward because geography should serve content, not the other way around. 20170627 11:33:52< wesnoth-discord-> I thought of opening a thread for this in the forums, so everyone can add whatever is there or is needed by umc, so we can support as many umc content as possible. > ... geography should serve content, not the other way around. Well, you can do both, I think. Geography is given before anything happens on it. In fact, geography shapes the happenings in a way. Depends on what you want to have, a story fitting to you georaphy or a 20170627 11:33:52< wesnoth-discord-> geopraphy fitting to your story. 20170627 11:35:53< zookeeper> sure. i mean it's usually good for one's imagination to have _some_ constraints and some known geography for instance, but if it's too detailed then it can become a limitation 20170627 11:36:56< wesnoth-discord-> True. 20170627 11:38:58< zookeeper> anyway, a thread like that sounds like a good idea. of course it might quickly devolve into a general worldbuilding thread, because someone is going to want a place for their angels faction and their swamp-elves-living-on-a-floating-island thing, at which point the question will be about what sorts of craziness should be considered in the first place. 20170627 11:40:42< zookeeper> anyway, if i had to sketch the rest of the continent right now, then it'd probably be sized somewhat vaguely like this: https://www.dropbox.com/s/2oi8ou0c3pi9faj/great_continent_complete_idea.png?dl=0 20170627 11:42:08< zookeeper> that gives an enormous amount of space, while still letting the currently known parts be a major chunk of it 20170627 11:45:37< zookeeper> (and the shorelines should probably have more interesting major shapes than that amorphous blob) 20170627 11:46:37< wesnoth-discord-> Do you have a .xcf or .psd for that image? A copy of it would be awesome. Yeah, thats a lot of space there. Is there some kind of measurement for those maps? I was never really aware of distances on the wesnoth maps. 20170627 11:49:56< zookeeper> no, i just handwaved it quickly right now on a flattened and scaled-down image 20170627 11:50:09< zookeeper> handwaved? i meant a different word, but i can't remember what it is 20170627 11:50:50< zookeeper> scribble, maybe? 20170627 11:53:26< wesnoth-discord-> > quickly devolve into a general worldbuilding thread, because someone is going to want a place for their angels faction and their swamp-elves-living-on-a-floating-island thing, at which point the question will be about what sorts of craziness should be considered in the first place. I will try to prevent that from happening. Maybe when we keep it more to a "general geophraphy" discussion, means were are major features like 20170627 11:53:27< wesnoth-discord-> mountains, plains, forests. Not exactly villages and floaty fragments of huge crystals or something like that. 20170627 11:54:14< zookeeper> as for scale, someone asked the same thing a few weeks ago 20170627 11:54:25< zookeeper> well, it's unspecified really. i mean you can take the isle of alduin, compare the scenario map to the bigmap and calculate how many days it takes to cross the isle etc, but... hah 20170627 11:54:28< zookeeper> ...but the scales between the two are not really intended to be consistent 20170627 11:54:34< zookeeper> there's some threads on the forums about the scale of the world based on travel times and such 20170627 11:54:38< zookeeper> still, there's no canonical scale 20170627 11:54:53< zookeeper> as a minor detail, the red-and-yellow lines at the edges of the new-style bigmaps _are_ consistently sized, so you can compare the dimensions of maps using those 20170627 11:56:28< wesnoth-discord-> ah, nice. Didn't noticed them until now. 20170627 11:59:13< zookeeper> if it was desired then i could doodle a more accurate shoreline for the whole continent and let other people try to figure out what the landscape should otherwise be like, since that might strike a good balance as far as inspiration and limitations go. 20170627 11:59:58< zookeeper> but might as well first see if there are any particularly good reasons to have the size and shape be something specific 20170627 12:00:39< wesnoth-discord-> Sounds good to me. 20170627 12:01:07< wesnoth-discord-> I'll wait with the post then until you figured out a good shape. 20170627 12:01:29< zookeeper> no no, just do the post first 20170627 12:03:03< zookeeper> the one thing i currently do want to keep is the southern land bridge connecting to the old continent, because that's my preferred way of letting the khalifate make some sense 20170627 12:24:06< wesnoth-discord-> I'll post it in art workshop for now 20170627 12:30:04< wesnoth-discord-> https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=46477 here we go. 20170627 12:31:26< zookeeper> the images aren't showing up for me 20170627 12:32:13< zookeeper> you should just use attachments for those. also maybe clarify that the latter was literally just a quick sketch i did in 2 minutes 20170627 12:32:13< wesnoth-discord-> hum.. maybe they are too big? They do for me. 20170627 12:32:37< zookeeper> i don't want anyone thinking that that's some kind of first draft we'll be working from 20170627 12:33:15< zookeeper> there's probably something wrong with the headers that firefox chokes on 20170627 12:33:44< zookeeper> because when i right-click to "view image", it works but pops up a file opening prompt instead of actually showing it 20170627 12:37:06< wesnoth-discord-> edited. 20170627 12:41:00< zookeeper> huh. i never realized that inline placement of attachments feature existed. 20170627 12:45:28< wesnoth-discord-> something new every day. :P 20170627 12:56:58-!- sevu [~Shiki@p54856DEB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth 20170627 13:12:01-!- Kwandulin [~Kwandulin@p200300760F7CBA83946DE173B00906DC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth 20170627 14:02:04-!- Kwandulin2 [~Kwandulin@p200300760F21420BD42F515B39D9B130.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth 20170627 14:02:37-!- Kwandulin [~Kwandulin@p200300760F7CBA83946DE173B00906DC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20170627 14:12:56-!- claymore [~claymore@unaffiliated/claymore] has joined #wesnoth 20170627 14:49:02-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170627 14:49:09-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20170627 14:54:35-!- aeth_ [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20170627 15:09:33< sevu> how could I do sth. like this: {VARIABLE unit.upkeep $unit.level-1} 20170627 15:09:49< sevu> the -1 part is being ignored 20170627 15:10:39< DeFender1031> you probably want {VARIABLE unit.upkeep ($unit.level-1)} 20170627 15:11:36< DeFender1031> actually, you probably want {VARIABLE unit.upkeep $($unit.level-1)} 20170627 15:12:43< DeFender1031> or even {VARIABLE unit.upkeep "$($unit.level-1)"} 20170627 15:13:10< sevu> I'll try these out 20170627 15:13:51< DeFender1031> I think the last one will cause you the least issues. 20170627 15:14:19< zookeeper> yes, always use quotes with formulas 20170627 15:14:46< DeFender1031> (And by that I mean, I kept leaving things out and then remembering them after I hit enter.) 20170627 15:15:38< DeFender1031> So yeah, use the last one I said. 20170627 15:24:48< sevu> Indeed, last one works. What is happening here? 20170627 15:26:16-!- aeth [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has joined #wesnoth 20170627 15:27:53< sevu> ah, I get it now. Thanks 20170627 15:33:41-!- Nobun [~nobun@5.170.106.148] has joined #wesnoth 20170627 15:33:59-!- Nobun [~nobun@5.170.106.148] has quit [Client Quit] 20170627 15:39:55-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has joined #wesnoth 20170627 15:46:29-!- sevu [~Shiki@p54856DEB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170627 16:03:50< wesnoth-discord-> @zookeeper this area would perfectly fit my needs: http://up.picr.de/29613186ei.jpg Since it's already on your latest version, from my side, there is actually no need to expand the map at all. But now things are posted and when something good happens in there, then it shall be. 20170627 16:14:05-!- Joseph398 [Joseph398@5.154.238.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20170627 16:16:53-!- Joseph398 [Joseph398@5.154.238.197] has joined #wesnoth 20170627 16:34:31< zookeeper> @Bitron, maybe not expanded, but it'd still need all the details filled in. 20170627 16:37:40-!- Joseph398 [Joseph398@5.154.238.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20170627 16:38:54-!- Joseph398 [Joseph398@5.154.238.197] has joined #wesnoth 20170627 16:40:07-!- Kwandulin2 [~Kwandulin@p200300760F21420BD42F515B39D9B130.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: [endlevel]] 20170627 16:55:16< wesnoth-discord-> Like Forests/Mountains or actual villages? 20170627 16:55:29< zookeeper> just terrain 20170627 17:08:38< wesnoth-discord-> @ zookeeper https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=46477&p=614763#p614763 20170627 17:16:38-!- Aumpa [~Aumpa@2605:e000:151f:43d9:90b4:1cb7:423a:1b65] has joined #wesnoth 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