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20170706 06:19:59< shadowm> For how long has the "emergency" release been scheduled? :p
20170706 06:20:36-!- vultraz_iOS changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 1.14 maybe delayed for accelerated_rendering | Wesnoth Developers Channel | >>> Want to help? Go here: http://r.wesnoth.org/t42911 (and thanks!) <<< | Discord Server: https://discord.gg/tSmJS2E | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Bug tracker: http://bugs.wesnoth.org
20170706 06:20:36< shadowm> Or pending a definite schedule, rather.
20170706 06:20:44< shadowm> o
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20170706 10:51:26< vultraz_iOS> zookeeper: how do i mark the top half of castle walls as background images?
20170706 10:52:16< zookeeper> what do you mean? the same way it works right now, surely.
20170706 10:53:46< vultraz_iOS> https://1drv.ms/i/s!As9hRC_GxjKKpgXdOBqP6ZtSkqiP
20170706 10:54:17< vultraz_iOS> this appeared during my refactoring.
20170706 10:54:31< vultraz_iOS> all units are drawn, proceeded by all foreground terrains
20170706 10:54:36< zookeeper> yes, i don't know what you're doing wrong.
20170706 10:54:53< vultraz_iOS> if i swap the order of units and foreground terrains, the clipping doesn't happen
20170706 10:55:01< vultraz_iOS> ergo, those walls are foreground terrains
20170706 10:56:53< vultraz_iOS> are they not?
20170706 11:00:44< vultraz_iOS> zookeeper: what is the criteria for background or foreground?
20170706 11:00:49< vultraz_iOS> layer > 0?
20170706 11:01:04< zookeeper> i don't know
20170706 11:01:16< vultraz_iOS> because all the castle walls are layer 0
20170706 11:01:36< vultraz_iOS> where would i be able to adjust this value?
20170706 11:02:31< vultraz_iOS> hmm
20170706 11:02:35< vultraz_iOS> "	/** The position of unit graphics in a tile. Graphics whose y
20170706 11:02:35< vultraz_iOS> 	 * position is below this value are considered background for
20170706 11:02:36< vultraz_iOS> 	 * this tile; graphics whose y position is above this value are
20170706 11:02:36< vultraz_iOS> 	 * considered foreground.
20170706 11:02:36< vultraz_iOS> 	 */
20170706 11:02:36< vultraz_iOS> 	static const int UNITPOS = 36 + 18;"
20170706 11:02:47< zookeeper> there you go
20170706 11:03:00< vultraz_iOS> 		bool is_background() const
20170706 11:03:00< vultraz_iOS> 		{
20170706 11:03:00< vultraz_iOS> 			return layer < 0 || (layer == 0 && basey < UNITPOS);
20170706 11:03:34< vultraz_iOS> ok
20170706 11:03:57< vultraz_iOS> zookeeper: it would seem to make sense for concave walls to be background though
20170706 11:04:12< vultraz_iOS> er, vex
20170706 11:04:32< vultraz_iOS> or i can remove this weird UNITPOS check
20170706 11:05:03< vultraz_iOS> what do you want me to do
20170706 11:05:20< zookeeper> simple: don't break stuff.
20170706 11:05:34< vultraz_iOS> you are being really unhelpful today :|
20170706 11:05:42< zookeeper> maybe i don't have time for more
20170706 11:06:15< vultraz_iOS> then just say so
20170706 11:11:02< zookeeper> why are you asking me what i want you to do? i can't give you some kind of list of details of the current drawing system that you can change
20170706 11:15:41< zookeeper> the terrain foreground/background/layering stuff is fundamentally awkward due to the way the artwork works. having terrains layer correctly WRT each other is one thing that's doable, but when we have units that are supposed to be obscured by some tiles (like castle towers) then it just gets impossible to do right, especially with this craziness with grossly oversized units.
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20170706 11:18:41< zookeeper> AFAICT the current system is pretty much as good as it gets, so unless you want to for example make units always be drawn on top and not obscured by any terrain, then there's not really any shortcuts that you can take that i can see.
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20170706 11:26:16< zookeeper> or, rather, any improvements that i can think of would probably be orthogonal to what you're doing.
20170706 11:27:30< vultraz_iOS> zookeeper: why would it be impossible to get right?
20170706 11:27:37< vultraz_iOS> I'm literally drawing the background terrains
20170706 11:27:39< vultraz_iOS> and the units
20170706 11:27:43< vultraz_iOS> and the foreground terrains
20170706 11:27:51< vultraz_iOS> the foreground terrains will be in front of the units
20170706 11:28:20< vultraz_iOS> we just need to ensure the proper ones - like the front towers or the big tree - are marked foreground
20170706 11:28:23< vultraz_iOS> and it just works
20170706 11:28:25< vultraz_iOS> what's the problem here 
20170706 11:28:34< zookeeper> replace konrad with a fire dragon
20170706 11:29:09< zookeeper> everything works just fine and dandy with units that are small enough, but bigger ones will cause problems
20170706 11:30:01< zookeeper> (wow, actually a fire dragon will look surprisingly good in that exact spot)
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20170706 11:30:56< zookeeper> (so just move it to any adjacent castle hex instead)
20170706 11:31:25< vultraz_iOS> not looking surprisingly good for me
20170706 11:31:35< vultraz_iOS> https://1drv.ms/i/s!As9hRC_GxjKKpgYR-huzWj21hTHL
20170706 11:31:43< zookeeper> and i don't mean it's _only_ the fire dragon that's the problem, but it's the biggest unit so it illustrates the fundamental layering problem with foreground/background terrains and units-behind-terrain
20170706 11:33:11< vultraz_iOS> Is this not something we can solve better now
20170706 11:34:08< zookeeper> what's "this"
20170706 11:34:11< zookeeper> yours or master
20170706 11:34:24< vultraz_iOS> unit/terrain layering problems in general
20170706 11:34:29< vultraz_iOS> with my branch
20170706 11:36:15< zookeeper> in theory, sure, in a very complicated way. but i don't think those ways are relevant right now.
20170706 11:36:48< vultraz_iOS> a very complicated way?
20170706 11:37:32< zookeeper> yes, for example by allowing a multihex terrain graphics rule specify which hexes will be cut off from units standing on a specific location of the rule
20170706 11:40:12< zookeeper> so for example that easternmost tower of the keep could specify that parts of the unit standing on the keep that reach the hex se of the keep won't get drawn
20170706 11:41:30< vultraz_iOS> we don't need that.
20170706 11:41:41< vultraz_iOS> all we need is an order in which to draw certain things
20170706 11:43:10< zookeeper> good luck with that then
20170706 11:43:31< vultraz_iOS> though i suppose that order could change
20170706 11:47:54< zookeeper> "all we need is an order in which to draw certain things" is pretty much the same thing as "all we need is a function which draws everything the way we want"
20170706 11:52:01< zookeeper> there's very few layering problems as-is, even most of the other big units don't really produce glaringly bad layering issues even in some situations there are some.
20170706 11:56:13< zookeeper> but the fire dragon? that can't really even be fixed, not without a feature like what i just described, or some kind of layering logic that would be even more complicated.
20170706 11:56:18< zookeeper> s/even/ever
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20170706 12:01:17< zookeeper> if you want to know whether the current foreground/background/layer system could be replaced with something completely different that would be simpler, mesh better with a_r and also be able to produce the same result as the current system... i don't know.
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20170706 13:14:03< vultraz_iOS> let's replace everything with 3D graphics :P
20170706 13:31:27< DeFender1031> layering is icky.
20170706 13:31:52< DeFender1031> it's also not as simple as "this image always goes behind units"
20170706 13:32:16< DeFender1031> because you can have some kind of wall-like thing at the southers edge of a hex.
20170706 13:32:39< DeFender1031> units on that hex should render behind that wall, but units to the south of it should render above it.
20170706 13:33:24< DeFender1031> z/above/in front of
20170706 13:33:37< DeFender1031> s/z/s
20170706 13:33:52< vultraz_iOS> indeed
20170706 13:34:31< vultraz_iOS> not gonna worry about it just yet, though
20170706 13:34:51< DeFender1031> IIRC, the existing code had some kind of accommodation for giving more southward units higher layering priority.
20170706 13:36:12< DeFender1031> or else treated parts of an image that extended onto a more southward hex as background even when they were foreaground on the northward hex.
20170706 13:36:59< DeFender1031> and like zookeeper mentioned, layering gets extremely ugly when dealing wiht units whose image extends outside the bounds of a single hex.
20170706 13:37:21< vultraz_iOS> true
20170706 13:38:12< vultraz_iOS> that's why I (jokingly, of course) said let's go full CIV 5 and go full 3D graphics w/ depth buffer :P
20170706 13:38:36< vultraz_iOS> we could have rotating maps! xD
20170706 13:39:50< vultraz_iOS> sadly can't do that
20170706 13:40:23< vultraz_iOS> unless someone has about $50k sitting around for modeling commissions :P
20170706 13:40:26< vultraz_iOS> or more
20170706 13:40:52< DeFender1031> It's a great idea in theory... The only slight problem is that it would essentially mean recreating every asset Wesnoth has and redoing everything from the ground up.
20170706 13:41:18< vultraz_iOS> yeah
20170706 13:41:18< DeFender1031> Not to mention how much harder it'd be to make custom content.
20170706 13:41:22< vultraz_iOS> as I said, $ $ $
20170706 13:42:19< vultraz_iOS> DeFender1031: To be fair, the Skyrim modding community seems to have no problem with that
20170706 13:43:34< DeFender1031> maybe, but I would hazard to guess that the community is smaller than it could be given the higher learning curve
20170706 13:44:25< DeFender1031> Also, I LIKE the retro pixel art style. :P
20170706 13:45:15< DeFender1031> (And goddammit, stuff from my teens is now considered "retro".)
20170706 13:45:29< vultraz_iOS> pfft, retro is so 2005
20170706 13:46:16< vultraz_iOS> or 2013
20170706 13:46:18< vultraz_iOS> depending
20170706 13:50:27< DeFender1031> heh.
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20170706 15:56:13< pydsigner> zookeeper: how does your change to ANL affect a game with a non-default era?
20170706 15:58:27< zookeeper> pydsigner, doesn't look like it does. that is, leader choices from the custom era are still available.
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20170706 16:16:00< irker111> wesnoth: ln-zookeeper wesnoth:master 837a39808cbe / data/campaigns/Heir_To_The_Throne/scenarios/04_The_Bay_of_Pearls.cfg: HttT S04: Removed erroneous description of Elensefar's location https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/837a39808cbea7d3061eebd92892ce86b91489b3
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20170706 17:46:23< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#14403 (master - 837a398 : ln-zookeeper): The build passed.
20170706 17:46:23< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/250831907
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--- Log closed Fri Jul 07 00:00:28 2017