--- Log opened Thu Jul 20 00:00:22 2017
--- Day changed Thu Jul 20 2017
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20170720 00:29:13< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#14452 (master - e1e336a : David Mikos): The build passed.
20170720 00:29:13< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/255461723
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20170720 01:16:49< gfgtdf> hmm i don't even know what exactly ou mean by atomic ptr, i mean ofc there is std::atomic<T*> but i don't see how that could help here.
20170720 01:39:23< celmin>                      ?
20170720 01:42:42< vultraz_iOS> celmin: i was asking if an atomic ptr would be better for the texture wrapper class
20170720 01:42:50< vultraz_iOS> but i don't even really understand how atomic ptrs work
20170720 01:43:06< vultraz_iOS> or why singanel suggested it
20170720 01:43:45< celmin> The texture wrapper doesn't even have a pointer?
20170720 01:44:01< celmin> It just has a number which is the texture ID.
20170720 01:44:01< vultraz_iOS> ...of course it does
20170720 01:44:04< vultraz_iOS> a shared_ptr
20170720 01:44:10< celmin> Uh, why?
20170720 01:44:26< vultraz_iOS> because I'm not using OGL yet!
20170720 01:44:31< celmin> Oh right.
20170720 01:44:46< DeFender1031> vultraz_iOS, feeling like a broken record?
20170720 01:44:53< vultraz_iOS> yes
20170720 01:44:57< celmin> <_<
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20170720 06:49:46< irker497> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle wesmere:master 97448fbe3dcd / wesmere/sass/mw/_tables.scss: sass/mw: Styling for a rare MW special page table class https://github.com/wesnoth/wesmere/commit/97448fbe3dcdcea1482bcb220fb33a32c0c9c6c0
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20170720 07:00:26< irker497> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:accelerated_rendering fde132c8cd28 / src/display.cpp: Display: fixed moving units drawing under foreground terrains https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/fde132c8cd28abd7d45ad71c2f79a42ce5faa085
20170720 07:00:29< irker497> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:accelerated_rendering 3bb038cccc9d / / (3 files in 2 dirs): Format forum URLs correctly https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/3bb038cccc9d7f96971c532ca589cc5d48ca05e2
20170720 07:00:32< vultraz_iOS> again, *I will cherry pick that last one to master*
20170720 07:00:40< vultraz_iOS> before anyone asks
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20170720 07:02:29< zookeeper> will you cherry pick that to master?
20170720 07:02:42< zookeeper> ...you lied :|
20170720 07:06:43< vultraz_iOS> ..............
20170720 07:06:49< vultraz_iOS> ...............................................................................................................
20170720 07:06:52< zookeeper> *trollface*
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20170720 07:43:56< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#14454 (accelerated_rendering - fde132c : Charles Dang): The build failed.
20170720 07:43:56< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/255548459
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20170720 12:57:29< gfgtdf> i just noticed that there is a umc campaigns wml source on the wiki. https://wiki.wesnoth.org/Campaign/Forgotten_Legacy
20170720 12:57:55< gfgtdf> seems like some people tried to use the wiki as a github replacement, 
20170720 12:58:36< gfgtdf> i have no idea how exactly they did it but it sounds like a painful thing to do.
20170720 13:02:32< zookeeper> yeah... well, it was way before github, so it's understandable.
20170720 13:03:59< JyrkiVesterinen> And MediaWiki is a sort of version control, so I think it wasn't that painful.
20170720 13:04:52< zookeeper> possibly even before umc-dev, and of course more immediately accessible to people who didn't know how to use svn. still, i don't think that was a very popular way of doing things :p
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20170720 16:26:56< zookeeper> gfgtdf, forum links in the issues imported from GNA all have the problem of = having gotten turned into a #. so to view http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f#58&t34045 just change f#5 to f=5
20170720 16:27:32< zookeeper> eh, hmh...
20170720 16:27:59< zookeeper> for some reason it's missing the following = as well, so need to change t34045 to t=34045 too
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20170720 20:57:59< vultraz_iOS> where is celmin..
20170720 20:58:52< DeFender> spreading the music to the masses, based on his quit message...
20170720 20:59:11< vultraz_iOS> heh
20170720 21:04:49< vultraz_iOS> OK
20170720 21:05:11< vultraz_iOS> DeFender: I have a tentative theoretical solution for your fading mages problem
20170720 21:05:46< vultraz_iOS> but it will require some Radical Changes
20170720 21:06:46< vultraz_iOS> essentially, I want people to be able to do something like this: 
20170720 21:08:08< vultraz_iOS> [image]
20170720 21:08:08< vultraz_iOS>     x,y=0,0
20170720 21:08:08< vultraz_iOS>     file="story/mages{VERSION}.png~O(opacity)"
20170720 21:08:08< vultraz_iOS>     formula="set_var('opacity', SOME CALCULATION OF OPACITY BASED ON TIME)"
20170720 21:08:08< vultraz_iOS> [/image]
20170720 21:08:21< vultraz_iOS> but it will require some changes..
20170720 21:09:03< vultraz_iOS> also this goes back to my utter stupidity when it comes to making code "progress" over time
20170720 21:09:45< vultraz_iOS> the code could look even simpler and be like this
20170720 21:10:01< vultraz_iOS> "story/mages{VERSION}.png~O(SOME CALCULATION OF OPACITY BASED ON TIME)"
20170720 21:10:04< vultraz_iOS> but
20170720 21:10:18< vultraz_iOS> it would need IPFs to allow WFL
20170720 21:10:48< zookeeper> wouldn't it make more sense to try to allow normal AnimationWML to be used in more places?
20170720 21:11:13< vultraz_iOS> sure
20170720 21:11:24< vultraz_iOS> but AnimationWML is currently rather sucky
20170720 21:11:26< vultraz_iOS> awkward
20170720 21:11:46< vultraz_iOS> full of shitty [if] blocks
20170720 21:11:57< vultraz_iOS> we need to refactor AnimationWML into AnimationWFL
20170720 21:16:38< zookeeper> (if you agree it makes more sense than your plan, then why wasn't it your plan?)
20170720 21:18:52< vultraz_iOS> it has similarities to my plan.
20170720 21:19:06< vultraz_iOS> i don't know what better animation code looks like
20170720 21:19:07< vultraz_iOS> yet
20170720 21:19:22< vultraz_iOS> or how to integrate it into other areas
20170720 21:21:15< zookeeper> in any case, don't get side-tracked into something like that.
20170720 21:21:45< vultraz_iOS> well the performance hit DeFender is seeing wasn' there in 1.12
20170720 21:22:06< zookeeper> i don't know what problem you're talking about.
20170720 21:29:52-!- stikonas_ is now known as stikonas
20170720 21:32:45< DeFender> Oh, I'm being talked to.
20170720 21:32:51 * DeFender catches up...
20170720 21:33:50 * DeFender likes the idea of WFL in IFP IN THEORY
20170720 21:34:09< DeFender> So long as it's implemented cleanly and with a syntax that's not insane.
20170720 21:35:16< DeFender> zookeeper, AnimationWML currently requires a unit for the animation to exist on... No such thing in [story] mode.
20170720 21:35:57< zookeeper> everyone knows that
20170720 21:36:03< DeFender> zookeeper, the typical problem, something which ran at a decent speed in 1.12 is molasses in 1.13
20170720 21:37:09< zookeeper> wait, so the problem is "1.13 has poor performance", and that leads vultraz to suggest what he did?
20170720 21:37:23< zookeeper> can someone explain to me how that's supposed to make any sense at all?
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20170720 21:39:42< DeFender> Ideally, we'd have a completely redone syntax for animations, have them based on a pixel origin of 0,0 rather than a hex, from which you would then offset stuff. Obviously, there'd be built-in functions to make it easier to calculate things like "one hex southwest, three hexes south" for the case of units (which would have 0,0 mean the center of the hex on which the given unit is standing), but it'd also be available in other places, such as on 
20170720 21:39:43< DeFender> the story screen, (I'd imagine 0,0 would be some corner in that case, probably, IIRC, top-left as it is now).
20170720 21:40:32< DeFender> zookeeper, it makes sense because what I'm doing to accomplish an animation in [story] is essentially an IPF hack rather than good animation code.
20170720 21:41:04< DeFender> zookeeper, it's a fade in. I'm basically overlaying ten copies of the same image with different opacities on top of each other at a certain interval.
20170720 21:41:07< zookeeper> it only makes sense if your problem is "my code needs to be hacky" and not "it performs badly"
20170720 21:42:14< DeFender> zookeeper, in 1.12, that hack ran at an acceptable speed. It doesn't in 1.13. There's currently no way to do it in such a way that it's not hacky and that it runs well. If there were a real syntax for it, it would be one copy of the image with an incrementing opacity rather than ten of the same.
20170720 21:43:41< DeFender> You're right, it's more than one step removed from "we need a better syntax", but it IS the case that, were there a better syntax, there wouldn't be performance issues arising from those kinds of hacks.
20170720 21:44:24< zookeeper> you make it sound like better syntax equals better performance
20170720 21:44:38< zookeeper> you still have to draw an image per each step of the fade-in, no matter what your syntax
20170720 21:44:45< DeFender> yes, but not TEN
20170720 21:45:13< zookeeper> uh, yeah you totally have to draw an image 10 times if you want a fade-in with 10 steps
20170720 21:45:22< DeFender> better syntax means these kinds of animations can be done in ways that aren't inefficient af.
20170720 21:45:32< DeFender> ....
20170720 21:45:34< DeFender> no.
20170720 21:45:53< DeFender> the way my code does it, it draws ten images AT THE SAME TIME.
20170720 21:46:16< zookeeper> that doesn't make any sense. surely you only draw one image at a time.
20170720 21:46:31< DeFender> ...
20170720 21:47:09< DeFender> if you were celmin, I'd think you actually did understand and were just being your typical pedantic self...
20170720 21:47:53< DeFender> the way the current [story] image syntax works, the only way to do a fade in involves blitting ten copies of the same image onto one another.
20170720 21:48:17< DeFender> with proper syntax, there would only ever be ONE copy in use at a given time.
20170720 21:48:24< zookeeper> oh, so you mean that each frame, the whole stack of images gets drawn. yeah, i guess that's true
20170720 21:48:41< DeFender> yes.
20170720 21:48:47< DeFender> that's what I was trying to convey.
20170720 21:49:02< DeFender> the point is, there's no syntax to allow it to be done without doing so.
20170720 21:49:28< DeFender> so having a workable syntax DOES contribute to performance, in a second-cousin-once-removed sort of way
20170720 21:49:48< DeFender> anyway
20170720 21:50:28< DeFender> vultraz_iOS, I'll give some thought to what a good animation syntax would look like, and maybe write something up.
20170720 21:50:28< zookeeper> well, sure. but that's a weak justification for the better syntax on its own, seeing how it'd probably be 100x easier to solve the stack-of-images issue some other way.
20170720 21:51:00< DeFender> zookeeper, real fix vs. bandaid.
20170720 21:51:45< vultraz_iOS> this is the crap I complain about. We want a real fix that will improve all areas of the game and zookeeper is like naaaaah hacky fix will do!
20170720 21:55:05< DeFender> vultraz_iOS, I don't think zookeeper is saying we shouldn't have a better syntax, just that this isn't the best example of a reason to need it and a warning to avoid scope creep so that the new version woon't be delayed yet again.
20170720 21:55:12< zookeeper> good grief. you literally have an nigh-insurmountable task on your hands as it is that you pretty much insist is a roadblock for the next stable, and then you go off on a wild tangent about how you want to add some kind of weird formula-driven over-time thingy to story screen images so a particular hacky hack would perform better. should i _not_ complain about the apparent lack of reason 
20170720 21:55:12< zookeeper> in that?
20170720 21:56:31< vultraz_iOS> no, you should say *that*
20170720 21:57:42< DeFender> vultraz_iOS, I think the idea would be to do whatever you're doing in such a way that it makes it easy to facilitate creating such a syntax once the rest is done, but without actually doing it right now.
20170720 21:58:40< DeFender> vultraz_iOS, like I said when I first showed you my campaign, I don't want to see the entire release pushed back solely because I feel the desire to push the engine to its limit.
20170720 21:58:42< vultraz_iOS> TBF, once celmin gets the shaders done and that's all added
20170720 21:58:49< vultraz_iOS> it will peform better
20170720 21:58:57< vultraz_iOS> doesn't change the fact that you're drawing an image 10 times
20170720 21:59:17< DeFender> If the things that the NORMAL content creators are doing will work smoothly, focus on that first and you wan worry about my insanity later.
20170720 21:59:42< DeFender> yes, and drawing an image 10 times is ugly.
20170720 22:00:11< DeFender> one thing I've learned about clean code is that you only have so much time to do things. You have to prioritize what code gets cleaned first.
20170720 22:00:19< DeFender> Yes, ideally, everything would be clean.
20170720 22:00:51< DeFender> But it doesn't do to work on one thing, notice something not clean in a different area, then go there only to find that it uses something else which is also not clean, etc.
20170720 22:01:10< DeFender> I used to do that when I first started. It never ended well.
20170720 22:01:33< zookeeper> i hope you realize that a typical bigmap journey path will draw dozens if not hundreds of images already?
20170720 22:01:34< DeFender> You clean up one area at a time, working around the ugly code that area makes use of as best you can.
20170720 22:01:57< DeFender> zookeeper, much smaller than the images I'm working with.
20170720 22:02:08< zookeeper> certainly
20170720 22:02:37< DeFender> anyway, I think it's a good idea to keep "we want this to work with a better syntax" in mind, but not get sidetracked by it until the main code is done.
20170720 22:03:02< DeFender> (Especially since there isn't a clear idea of what "better syntax" would even mean yet.)
20170720 22:03:20< DeFender> In the meantime, you can give some thought to what that would mean.
20170720 22:03:27< vultraz_iOS> certainly
20170720 22:03:38< vultraz_iOS> I've made good progress on a_r, most stuff is drawing now
20170720 22:03:47< DeFender> As I said, I will do so as well. I actually have a decent amount of experience creating syntacies, and consider myself quite good at it.
20170720 22:03:54< vultraz_iOS> still need to tackle the absolute fucking mess that is drawing the in-game UI, though
20170720 22:04:37< vultraz_iOS> which is compounded by the absolute fucking mess that is figuring out how to draw it in GUI2
20170720 22:05:22< DeFender> layers. definitely layers.
20170720 22:05:26< DeFender> :P
20170720 22:05:41< vultraz_iOS> NO it's not the layers
20170720 22:05:58< DeFender> Sorry, was just trying to be funny.
20170720 22:06:01< vultraz_iOS> it's the fact that in the case, it seems absolute positioning instead of relative IS needed
20170720 22:06:47< shadowm> POSITIONING? I heard someone say positioning. What needs to be fixed?
20170720 22:06:57< shadowm> Oh wait. GUI2, not CSS. Bye.
20170720 22:07:00< DeFender> hahahaha
20170720 22:07:02< vultraz_iOS> ;_;
20170720 22:07:14< vultraz_iOS> can we add a css parser to wesnoth
20170720 22:07:30< shadowm> lol
20170720 22:07:37< DeFender> if you want performance, that would not be the way to go... :P
20170720 22:07:39< shadowm> You have no idea how hard "absolute" positioning is in CSS.
20170720 22:07:49< DeFender> shadowm, I have an idea.
20170720 22:07:57< vultraz_iOS> i have no idea
20170720 22:08:02< vultraz_iOS> and am now going to acquire
20170720 22:08:04< vultraz_iOS> BREAKFAST
20170720 22:08:08< DeFender> :o
20170720 22:08:12< vultraz_iOS> *drumroll*
20170720 22:08:12< shadowm> Enjoy.
20170720 22:08:23< DeFender> All hail the almighty BREAKFAST!
20170720 22:09:23< DeFender> shadowm, yes positioning in CSS is VERY annoying. CSS3 made it a lot better though with things like flexbox.
20170720 22:09:46< DeFender> Even so, there are still some things that are just nigh on impossible.
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--- Log closed Fri Jul 21 00:00:47 2017