--- Log opened Sat Jul 22 00:00:49 2017 20170722 00:03:58-!- DDR [~David@S0106f0f249839863.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #wesnoth 20170722 00:06:45-!- celmin [~celticmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has joined #wesnoth 20170722 00:10:27-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@112.64.216.91] has joined #wesnoth 20170722 00:11:05-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170722 00:15:39-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@112.64.216.91] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170722 00:50:44-!- Bonobo [~Bonobo@61.68.206.22] has joined #wesnoth 20170722 01:04:45< wesnoth-discord-> many of the same people are on both ends 20170722 01:18:18-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170722 01:18:25-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20170722 02:11:13-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170722 02:11:19-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20170722 02:40:40-!- ArneBab_ [~quassel@freenet/developer/arnebab] has joined #wesnoth 20170722 02:44:49-!- ArneBab [~quassel@freenet/developer/arnebab] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20170722 03:13:46-!- celmin [~celticmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has quit [Quit: And lo! The minstrel departs, to spread the music to the masses!] 20170722 03:53:39-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170722 03:53:45-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20170722 04:17:11< wesnoth-discord-> Call to @MMMHHH and other iOS beta testers! I'm asking for a favor. We neeed to have the prettiest screenshots on iPad Pro 12", and others. If someone can make some, will you please send them in my direction? Thanks! 20170722 04:29:47-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has quit [Quit: And lo! The computer falls into a deep sleep, to awake again some other day!] 20170722 04:40:45< wesnoth-discord-> who has an iPad Pro? 20170722 04:42:36< wesnoth-discord-> that is, out of the testers 20170722 04:46:33-!- Kwandulin [~Kwandulin@p200300760F12B3DC20ADEAC2A91F0980.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth 20170722 05:41:26-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170722 05:41:34-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20170722 06:04:55-!- bumbadadabum [~bumbadada@wesnoth/developer/bumbadadabum] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20170722 06:05:04-!- bumba [~bumbadada@wesnoth/developer/bumbadadabum] has joined #wesnoth 20170722 06:05:26-!- bumba [~bumbadada@wesnoth/developer/bumbadadabum] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170722 06:29:32-!- Ipsilon [~Ipsilon@138.197.195.205] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20170722 06:30:34< wesnoth-discord-> I can only hope someone does 😃 Or I'll have to make screenshots in simulator. 20170722 06:47:18-!- Ipsilon [~Ipsilon@138.197.195.205] has joined #wesnoth 20170722 07:04:35-!- zookeeper [zookeeper@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth 20170722 07:42:59-!- Kwandulin [~Kwandulin@p200300760F12B3DC20ADEAC2A91F0980.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20170722 07:49:16< wesnoth-discord-> Does anyone know skyvioletshadow? 20170722 07:49:26< wesnoth-discord-> I mean did anyone watch him? 20170722 08:20:48-!- Kwandulin [~Kwandulin@p200300760F12B3DCAC8159F81658B184.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth 20170722 08:55:30-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170722 08:55:36-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20170722 09:06:06-!- Murgatroyd [~Vadatajs@75-167-198-14.cdrr.qwest.net] has joined #wesnoth 20170722 09:07:56-!- Vadatajs [~Vadatajs@97-127-153-207.cdrr.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20170722 09:11:47< wesnoth-discord-> I have iPad Pro 10.5, not 12 20170722 09:14:16-!- metronomicon [~metronomi@2a02:587:a29:a00:9cfe:cd82:b8a9:e145] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170722 09:15:33-!- metronomicon [~metronomi@2a02:587:a29:a00:9cfe:cd82:b8a9:e145] has joined #wesnoth 20170722 09:38:19-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has joined #wesnoth 20170722 09:41:39-!- kuneco [~kuneco@c-71-238-55-12.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20170722 09:49:53-!- DDR [~David@S0106f0f249839863.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20170722 10:16:45-!- Kwandulin [~Kwandulin@p200300760F12B3DCAC8159F81658B184.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20170722 10:53:50-!- Kwandulin [~Kwandulin@p200300760F12B3DC9C1561EE063619EB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth 20170722 11:30:59-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170722 11:31:05-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20170722 12:20:01-!- Appleman1234 [~quassel@124x38x163x22.ap124.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20170722 12:22:01-!- Appleman1234 [~quassel@124x38x163x22.ap124.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #wesnoth 20170722 12:52:57-!- Kwandulin [~Kwandulin@p200300760F12B3DC9C1561EE063619EB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20170722 13:16:40< wesnoth-discord-> @sinda Is iOS 10.3.2 sufficient enough to run the beta app? Or, do I have update? 20170722 13:16:47< wesnoth-discord-> *have to 20170722 14:07:37-!- Alkenrinnstet [~alkenrinn@42.61.217.253] has joined #wesnoth 20170722 14:10:28< wesnoth-discord-> I personally think that iOS 10.3.2 is good enought. 20170722 14:22:24-!- Bonobo [~Bonobo@61.68.206.22] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20170722 14:25:11-!- moongazer [~moongazer@59.95.137.122] has joined #wesnoth 20170722 14:30:09-!- Kwandulin [~Kwandulin@p200300760F12B3DC9C1561EE063619EB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth 20170722 14:43:55-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170722 14:44:01-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20170722 15:00:00< wesnoth-discord-> Is there anyone here, ANYONE that plays ladder? 20170722 15:18:29-!- vultraz_iOS [uid24821@wesnoth/developer/vultraz] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 20170722 15:43:36-!- moongazer [~moongazer@59.95.137.122] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20170722 15:49:00-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has joined #wesnoth 20170722 16:17:03< wesnoth-discord-> @knyghtmare yes, even 7.0 should suffice. Though, pre-Retina equipment should be somewhat slow. 20170722 16:18:08-!- Vorpal [~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20170722 16:25:04-!- Vorpal [~Vorpal@c83-253-248-85.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #wesnoth 20170722 16:25:04-!- Vorpal [~Vorpal@c83-253-248-85.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Changing host] 20170722 16:25:04-!- Vorpal [~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal] has joined #wesnoth 20170722 16:50:30-!- jemadux [~jemadux@unaffiliated/jemadux] has joined #wesnoth 20170722 16:54:07-!- Kwandulin [~Kwandulin@p200300760F12B3DC9C1561EE063619EB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20170722 17:00:35-!- Kranix [~magnus@193.88.100.59] has joined #wesnoth 20170722 17:01:27-!- moongazer [~moongazer@59.95.137.227] has joined #wesnoth 20170722 17:03:48-!- Kwandulin [~Kwandulin@p200300760F12B3DC3912D4DFBB6C1D1B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth 20170722 17:12:02< wesnoth-discord-> U mentioned him so u make sure i understand yall ignoring me XD wp 20170722 17:16:54< wesnoth-discord-> @djidepide That's not what is taking place here. People simply aren't inclined to all say "no" to a question like that, even though it'd be the correct answer. 20170722 17:17:58< wesnoth-discord-> (Primarily because they can't know for sure that it's the case since there are other people and they can't all arrange an ad-hoc meeting to deliberate on whether the channel-wide answer should be "no".) 20170722 17:21:46< wesnoth-discord-> @jyrkive is this supposed to be capping at my monitor's refresh rate? 20170722 17:21:54< wesnoth-discord-> I'm hitting 1000fps occasionally 20170722 17:23:30< wesnoth-discord-> Wishlist: disable screen updates or set fps to 1 when wesnoth is hidden 20170722 17:24:43< wesnoth-discord-> It attempts to cap approximately to the refresh rate, but it can occasionally go much higher (as a result of a frame randomly taking longer than normal; my code compensates by spending less time sleeping on subsequent frames). 20170722 17:25:18< wesnoth-discord-> I don't think I ever dropped below 300 if I wasn't scrolling. 20170722 17:25:41< wesnoth-discord-> It definitely shouldn't be above 300 all the time. :/ 20170722 17:28:36< wesnoth-discord-> I might put a log line in so I can check what my Hz target is 20170722 17:28:39< wesnoth-discord-> Automatically slowing down when the window isn't visible has been there for a long time: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/blob/master/src/controller_base.cpp#L283-L288 20170722 17:36:44-!- claymore [~claymore@unaffiliated/claymore] has joined #wesnoth 20170722 17:39:12-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 20170722 17:40:36-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has joined #wesnoth 20170722 17:47:21< wesnoth-discord-> @jyrkive except that I've not had it work on 1.13 20170722 17:49:00< wesnoth-discord-> @jyrkive it seems like the FPS limiter is working on HttT 20170722 17:49:37< wesnoth-discord-> So where didn't it work earlier? 20170722 17:50:20< wesnoth-discord-> Dead Water 20170722 17:50:35< wesnoth-discord-> I get higher FPS on that map than on HttT 20170722 17:51:29< wesnoth-discord-> It wasn't pegging my CPU though, that was actually Steam 20170722 17:51:48< wesnoth-discord-> Working in some campaigns and not others? That's quite strange... 😐 20170722 17:51:48< wesnoth-discord-> Isn't higher fps a good thing? 20170722 17:52:03< wesnoth-discord-> ping's the one that messes up my ranked career 20170722 17:52:44< wesnoth-discord-> @jyrkive the animated water might be throwing off your algorithm 20170722 17:52:46< wesnoth-discord-> Higher FPS isn't good if it exceeds the screen refresh rate because it means higher CPU usage. The PC uses more electricity, and other programs become slower. 20170722 17:53:04< wesnoth-discord-> But I even took a screenshot to make sure — it shows 769 fps 20170722 17:53:29-!- DeFender1031 [~DeFender1@217.132.16.231] has joined #wesnoth 20170722 17:54:50< wesnoth-discord-> Wait, I'm reading your code again 20170722 17:55:10< wesnoth-discord-> Is it possible that there's a lot of `force` driving up the refresh rate? 20170722 17:56:25< wesnoth-discord-> Not really. If `force` was used all the time, 1.13 would have worked well even without my changes. 20170722 17:58:28< wesnoth-discord-> _keeps reading_ 20170722 17:58:45< wesnoth-discord-> So the problem is that if frametimes vary wildly, projected FPS will be driven up because all we consider is the worst case from the last 50 frames 20170722 17:58:49< wesnoth-discord-> @knyghtmare For example, most screens only have a refresh rate of 60, with the most modern/expensive/etc ones maxing out at 240. Something like @pydsigner 's 769 is therefore completely pointless. Not to mention that uncapping the fps and letting your hardware run at maximum for hours is a great way to make it fail sooner. 20170722 18:00:02< wesnoth-discord-> @jyrkive what if the wait was moved after the draw and looked only at actual time spent in the last frame for the sleep cycle instead of the worst case in the past? 20170722 18:00:55< wesnoth-discord-> Looking at actual time for the last frame was what the code did previously. 20170722 18:01:11< wesnoth-discord-> But that's just idiotic because it means missing 50% of frames on average. 20170722 18:01:47< wesnoth-discord-> The code previously used a fixed 20ms sleep 20170722 18:02:00< wesnoth-discord-> Right? 20170722 18:02:44< wesnoth-discord-> I'm clearly not conceptualizing this well enough 20170722 18:02:50< wesnoth-discord-> But 20170722 18:03:36< wesnoth-discord-> Let's assume that we should be able to draw any frame within 1/60th of a second 20170722 18:03:40< wesnoth-discord-> What my code does now, looking at the worst-case of last 50 frames, is the opposite approach. And it probably indeed goes too far, and doesn't capmuch at all when the frametimes vary much. 20170722 18:04:08< wesnoth-discord-> Is that a reasonable assumption? 20170722 18:04:30< wesnoth-discord-> That's what the code should *try* to do, yes. 20170722 18:04:46< wesnoth-discord-> Then you draw immediately when the draw request is made 20170722 18:04:57< wesnoth-discord-> At some point the monitor picks up the updated framebuffer 20170722 18:05:35< wesnoth-discord-> Meanwhile, we sleep for the rest of our 1/60th, and then immediately draw again 20170722 18:07:31< wesnoth-discord-> Instead of sleeping beforehand and then scurrying to catch up if our frame takes longer than expected 20170722 18:09:02< wesnoth-discord-> Am I still seeing something wrong? 20170722 18:09:22< wesnoth-discord-> What you're suggesting sounds reasonable to me. 20170722 18:10:35< wesnoth-discord-> The main disadvantage of that approach is that it causes input lag. The game picks up the input, handles game logic, then waits for ~12 ms, and draws after that. 20170722 18:10:52< wesnoth-discord-> Yeah I realize that 20170722 18:11:02< wesnoth-discord-> Whereas the current approach means that the wait occurs *before* polling for input. 20170722 18:11:05< wesnoth-discord-> But I'm less concerned about that in a strat game 20170722 18:18:25< DeFender1031> @shadowm, three logicians walk into a bar, the bartender asks, "do you all want beers?" The first says, "I don't know." The second says, "I don't know." The third excitedly exclaims "Yes!" 20170722 18:20:45< wesnoth-discord-> DeFender1031: That's a good one hehe 20170722 18:36:23-!- Kwandulin [~Kwandulin@p200300760F12B3DC3912D4DFBB6C1D1B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20170722 18:38:20-!- synthpopisback [~synthpopi@2606:a000:7947:5000:b872:4603:e968:bd20] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20170722 18:42:39-!- Kwandulin [~Kwandulin@p200300760F12B3DCC05ADA6B0C068540.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth 20170722 18:47:11-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170722 18:57:14-!- Jetrel_bot [~Jetrel@ec2.happyspork.com] has joined #wesnoth 20170722 18:58:19-!- DDR [~david@ec2.happyspork.com] has joined #wesnoth 20170722 19:04:26-!- synthpopisback [~synthpopi@2606:a000:7947:5000:b872:4603:e968:bd20] has joined #wesnoth 20170722 19:30:41-!- Guest79926 [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has joined #wesnoth 20170722 19:30:46-!- Kwandulin [~Kwandulin@p200300760F12B3DCC05ADA6B0C068540.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20170722 19:33:42< wesnoth-discord-> Bruh this is a "Battle for Wesnoth developing" not a "Battle for Wesnoth" server 20170722 19:34:17< wesnoth-discord-> Yeah... us developers discuss much more actively than players. 😛 20170722 19:34:55< wesnoth-discord-> There is more developers than ladder players(generally not in this server particulat) 20170722 19:35:49< wesnoth-discord-> Kinda funny given that there aren't many of us either. 😛 20170722 19:35:51< wesnoth-discord-> "As of September 2015, The Battle for Wesnoth announced their development team consisted of no more than five developers." 20170722 19:36:10< celticminstrel> That's two years old. What about now? 20170722 19:36:11< wesnoth-discord-> I can only imagine the drama that would get put here if ladder/competitive play was talked about a lot on this Discord 20170722 19:36:14< wesnoth-discord-> OFFICIAL devs 20170722 19:36:32< wesnoth-discord-> Why bruh? @Pentarctagon 20170722 19:37:16< DeFender1031> I think there's six active at the moment, no? 20170722 19:37:32< celticminstrel> I haven't counted recently. 20170722 19:37:47< wesnoth-discord-> Because the competitiveness goes to people's heads, and seems to bring out the worst, especially once accusations of cheating and such start getting thrown around 20170722 19:38:13< wesnoth-discord-> Oh 20170722 19:38:31< wesnoth-discord-> DeFender1013 do u mean here in the server or? 20170722 19:40:12< wesnoth-discord-> celticminstrel: are you counting active people in the Github org? 20170722 19:40:15< wesnoth-discord-> @Vultraz How's the active dev count recently? 20170722 19:40:25< wesnoth-discord-> Or how are you measuring a "dev"? 20170722 19:40:54< celticminstrel> Well, I wasn't counting at all, but... counting the people publically visible in the GitHub organization probably isn't a good way. 20170722 19:41:10< wesnoth-discord-> Whats GitHub? 20170722 19:41:15< wesnoth-discord-> @pydsigner How about "someone who commits changes at least once per week"? 20170722 19:41:42< celticminstrel> Well, that would exclude me given the last week or two... 20170722 19:41:53< DeFender1031> celticminstrel, well, I count you, zookeeps, vult, jyrki, gfg, and matt. 20170722 19:42:08< wesnoth-discord-> @djidepide https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/pulls 20170722 19:42:09< wesnoth-discord-> Those r ladder players? 20170722 19:42:18< celticminstrel> @djidepride - GitHub is a website for coordinating code between developers. 20170722 19:42:39< celticminstrel> Kinda surprised you count someone who's not around much though. 20170722 19:42:57< celticminstrel> I guess he is pretty active when he does come around. 20170722 19:42:58< DeFender1031> @Pentarctagon "accusations of cheating"? How can someone possibly cheat? Isn't that impossible from a technical perspective? Wouldn't any cheating cause OOS? 20170722 19:43:06< celticminstrel> There's also Coffee recently. 20170722 19:43:42< wesnoth-discord-> DeFender1031: Save replay at current turn, open second wesnoth, load replay, look at other side 20170722 19:43:48< DeFender1031> celticminstrel, I assume you're referring to matt. IINM, he did a bunch of AI stuff about a month ago, but has been traveling or something lately. 20170722 19:44:06< wesnoth-discord-> Or alter the code to disable fog/shroud and play with that modified build. 20170722 19:44:24< celticminstrel> IINM? 20170722 19:44:47< wesnoth-discord-> So basically i cant find myself a match here ranked nor normal? 20170722 19:44:47< DeFender1031> @Pentarctagon, ah. That's... yeah. Perhaps replays should only be logged on the server until the end or something... 20170722 19:44:51< DeFender1031> Oh, or, easier. 20170722 19:44:53< wesnoth-discord-> The source code is available and compilable - you can make it do all sorts of things to cheat without causing any OOS 20170722 19:45:02< DeFender1031> A notification can be sent to other players if someone saves. 20170722 19:45:36< DeFender1031> celticminstrel, If I'm Not Mistaken. 20170722 19:45:40< celticminstrel> Ah. 20170722 19:45:55< wesnoth-discord-> And I don't think there are any devs who want to spend their time playing whack-a-mole with anti-cheat implementations 20170722 19:46:07< DeFender1031> celticminstrel, I think that's not the first time you asked about that one... I use it a lot though, so I suspect you'll become familiar with it eventually. 20170722 19:46:23< DeFender1031> celticminstrel, ah, yes, coffee. 20170722 19:46:26< celticminstrel> I guess. 20170722 19:47:33< wesnoth-discord-> @djidepide I wouldn't count on it. You'd be better off hosting your own matches, probably, or asking on the MP server/looking around the ladder site. 20170722 19:47:49< mattsc> I’d not count myself as particularly active lately. But I am back from traveling. 20170722 19:48:01< wesnoth-discord-> MP server? 20170722 19:48:32< wesnoth-discord-> Multiplayer server 20170722 19:48:59< wesnoth-discord-> Oh, is there a possibility to dm someone over the ladder site 20170722 19:49:19< DeFender1031> mattsc, ah, welcome back then :P 20170722 19:49:56< DeFender1031> still, you were reasonable active reasonably recently enough that I'd say your active status hasn't expired quite yet... :P 20170722 19:50:30< DeFender1031> (As if A: I'm the arbiter of what "active" means and B: it actually matters in any tangible way...) 20170722 19:52:08< mattsc> DeFender1031: Good enough for me. I’ve been back lurking for a week and even started meddling with Fred a little again. And I’m happy to reply to any AI questions (or even SotBE questions), but I don’t have any active mainline projects at the moment. How about that. ;) 20170722 19:53:14< mattsc> s/./? :P 20170722 19:53:51< DeFender1031> Fred? 20170722 19:54:16< wesnoth-discord-> @djidepide I don't know - as you might be able to guess, I'm not overly interested in the ladder 😛 20170722 19:54:48< wesnoth-discord-> Oh, sry if i bothered 20170722 19:54:49< mattsc> Fred — the AI formerly known as the Grunt-Rush AI on Freelands. 20170722 19:55:13< wesnoth-discord-> no worries 20170722 19:55:13< DeFender1031> Why is it now named "Fred"? 20170722 19:55:30< mattsc> Because that was easier to say than the old name. 20170722 19:55:58< wesnoth-discord-> @Pentarctagon u developing shit too? 20170722 19:56:51< wesnoth-discord-> figuratively or literally? 20170722 19:57:04< wesnoth-discord-> Haha 20170722 19:57:08< wesnoth-discord-> because literally speaking, yes, we all are 20170722 19:57:22< mattsc> DeFender1031 Seriously. The conversation went something like this: “We need a name that is easier to say.” “How about Fred?” “Okay.” 20170722 19:57:31< wesnoth-discord-> (no I'm not a developer, I'm a forum admin) 20170722 19:57:48< wesnoth-discord-> Oh, so u aint much into playong either 20170722 19:58:35< wesnoth-discord-> Not so much for a while. I was hoping to start playing more with 1.14, whenever it comes out. 20170722 19:58:48< wesnoth-discord-> Ph, why? Whats new? 20170722 19:59:03< DeFender1031> mattsc, say no more. I've had that same conversation myself. 20170722 19:59:21< wesnoth-discord-> there's a new faction, for starters 20170722 19:59:43< wesnoth-discord-> OMG WHATS IT CALLED? 20170722 19:59:49< wesnoth-discord-> Khalifate 20170722 19:59:56< wesnoth-discord-> the UI got overhauled a bunch 20170722 19:59:58< wesnoth-discord-> Bruh, can we continue in dm? 20170722 20:00:03< wesnoth-discord-> lots of new WML features 20170722 20:00:04< wesnoth-discord-> etc 20170722 20:00:09< wesnoth-discord-> sure 20170722 20:11:44-!- kuneco [~kuneco@71.238.55.12] has joined #wesnoth 20170722 20:25:47-!- Guest79926 is now known as Haudegen 20170722 20:31:10-!- celmin [~celticmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has joined #wesnoth 20170722 20:37:01-!- edaq [~edaq3@h69-21-227-85.cytnin.broadband.dynamic.tds.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20170722 20:38:23< celmin> …wasn't the Khalifate in 1.12? 20170722 20:38:49< zookeeper> yeah, it is 20170722 20:40:39< wesnoth-discord-> oh 20170722 20:40:44< wesnoth-discord-> whoops 20170722 20:40:50< wesnoth-discord-> haven't had 1.12 in a while 20170722 20:41:56< wesnoth-discord-> so, I guess, even moreso - are there any plans to have the Khalifate as part of just Default, rather than still as Default+Khalifate? 20170722 20:42:10-!- moongazer [~moongazer@59.95.137.227] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20170722 20:44:38< wesnoth-discord-> the changelog says they were added in 1.11.8, which was about 3.5 years ago now 20170722 20:46:49< celmin> Guessing the reason is balance. 20170722 20:47:10< celmin> The Khalifate has not been as copiously balanced against all the other mainline factions. 20170722 20:47:39< wesnoth-discord-> That's what I thought, but they seem to be in a sort of limbo at the moment 20170722 20:47:57< zookeeper> not to mention all the usual reasons due to which i'd expect a fair amount of people to riot if it was suddenly in the default era and there was no default minus khalifate era. 20170722 20:47:57< wesnoth-discord-> and attempts to balance it always end with someone wanting to remove that faction 20170722 20:49:25< celmin> I think it'd be nice to have more than one default era. 20170722 20:50:01< celmin> (Age of Heroes doesn't count.) 20170722 20:50:06< wesnoth-discord-> why? 20170722 20:50:19< wesnoth-discord-> or, for what purpose? 20170722 20:50:29< celmin> Uh. 20170722 20:50:42< celmin> Does there need to be a purpose other than for the sake of more content / choices? 20170722 20:50:55< wesnoth-discord-> People eventually got over the addition of Drakes back in the day, I don't see what the problem is. 20170722 20:51:05< wesnoth-discord-> isn't that what the add-on server is for? 20170722 20:53:19< DeFender1031> "More than one default _____" doesn't really make sense. 20170722 20:53:30< wesnoth-discord-> If there's this much trouble getting the Khalifate considered balanced, it seems like adding more factions isn't going to be particularly helpful for anything. 20170722 20:53:45< celmin> s/default/mainline/ 20170722 20:55:18< wesnoth-discord-> unless the Khalifate is just a special case, because of the religion references 20170722 20:55:59< DeFender1031> celmin, better. :) 20170722 20:56:25< celmin> There aren't really any religious references in the Khalifate apart from its name, are there? 20170722 20:56:56< wesnoth-discord-> Khalifate is a special case for a single reason: the author (Noy) abandoned it after people threw a hissy fit over its addition. 20170722 20:56:59< wesnoth-discord-> And the units names 20170722 20:57:09< celmin> I don't think so? 20170722 20:57:18< wesnoth-discord-> The person who then took it over also eventually disappeared. 20170722 20:57:21< wesnoth-discord-> I dont feel like we need more factions, these 6 is okay 20170722 20:57:23< celmin> The names are Arabic, yes, but AFAIK they have no religious meanings. 20170722 20:57:32< wesnoth-discord-> True 20170722 20:57:39< celmin> The faction as a whole is more pre-Muslim Arabic in flavour IMO. 20170722 20:58:09< wesnoth-discord-> Also, a lot of people disagree with the "we don't need new campaigns/factions/races" sentiment and that's why they feel that Wesnoth's development is stagnating. 20170722 20:58:14< celmin> So the "Khalif" is more like an emir or similar than a religious leader. 20170722 20:58:18< wesnoth-discord-> Not pre muslim 20170722 20:58:25< celmin> Well, non-Muslim. 20170722 20:58:32< wesnoth-discord-> It is muslim 20170722 20:58:50< wesnoth-discord-> Khalif has a pretty definite Islamic meaning 20170722 20:58:56< wesnoth-discord-> Bruh, "khalifa" was the true leader of all muslims 20170722 20:59:14< wesnoth-discord-> Im myself a muslim so i think i may know a bit better 20170722 20:59:39< DeFender1031> IMO, the Khalifate's existence is out of place, simply due to its being too similar to a real-world ethnicity/religion. I have no issue with the idea of such a desert-dwelling faction, but I would have liked to see it somewhat more developed for wesnoth as opposed to reminiscent of people in the real world. 20170722 21:00:08< DeFender1031> But this is also one of the things that's very low on my list of wesnoth stuff that I care about. 20170722 21:00:35< wesnoth-discord-> Idk why do we have ppl in general being loyalists and just particulure type of ppl as another faction, it diesnt make sense 20170722 21:00:59< wesnoth-discord-> I dont feel like khalifate should be added to dedault, ever... 20170722 21:04:16-!- claymore [~claymore@unaffiliated/claymore] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20170722 21:06:01< wesnoth-discord-> personally, I mostly just don't like the faction name, given that they're being included as part of Wesnoth and its universe. But, it doesn't sound like anything will change any time soon. 20170722 21:06:34< wesnoth-discord-> I just dont like it, at all tbh... 20170722 21:15:41< kuneco> has the idea of multiple default eras been discussed? 20170722 21:16:15< kuneco> I like the idea of exploring new mechanics like liminal units and other stuff not in default 20170722 21:16:20< wesnoth-discord-> U cant have more default eras, there is only one "default" in any game 20170722 21:16:31< wesnoth-discord-> Add-ons bruh 20170722 21:16:40< kuneco> that's just a matter of terminology 20170722 21:16:43< kuneco> not an argument 20170722 21:16:51< kuneco> ship multiple eras with the default install 20170722 21:16:52< kuneco> come on 20170722 21:17:08< kuneco> as I was saying 20170722 21:17:18< kuneco> but I think the current 6 factions are nicely balanced 20170722 21:17:37< wesnoth-discord-> Same, and i feel they r enoigh 20170722 21:17:40< kuneco> why not have another "default" (if it please you) era that represents another point in the history of wesnoth? 20170722 21:18:05< kuneco> we can explore some new history, mechanics and play styles 20170722 21:18:54< wesnoth-discord-> Those r eras not "defaults" 20170722 21:19:02< wesnoth-discord-> "new history" lol 20170722 21:19:11< kuneco> are you an idiot? 20170722 21:19:18< kuneco> stop derailing things 20170722 21:20:00< wesnoth-discord-> Fuck off we were having a polite argument 20170722 21:20:16< wesnoth-discord-> Not an argument 20170722 21:20:19< wesnoth-discord-> Or... 20170722 21:20:22< wesnoth-discord-> Fuck my english 20170722 21:21:03< kuneco> if english isn't your first language, then I understand 20170722 21:21:23< zookeeper> kids. behave. 20170722 21:21:46< kuneco> don't patronize me please 20170722 21:25:50-!- kuneco [~kuneco@71.238.55.12] has left #wesnoth ["every time"] 20170722 21:26:47< wesnoth-discord-> IDK, seemed more matronly to me 20170722 21:27:58< wesnoth-discord-> The whole Khalifate discussion keeps getting brought up over and over and over again though. 20170722 21:30:06< wesnoth-discord-> What would be kinda neat, would be a "Post-Fall" era. So UtbS' Desert Elves, Shaxthals, etc. 20170722 21:30:58< wesnoth-discord-> I can only imagine the crapfest that would ensue if anything I created became mainline lol. 20170722 21:31:01< wesnoth-discord-> Its not kuneco 20170722 21:32:59< wesnoth-discord-> @shadowm did people complain about Drakes being added as a Default faction or about them being added to mainline? 20170722 21:33:35< celmin> @djidepide / @Pentarctagon - I was saying besides Khalif. 20170722 21:33:37< zookeeper> there were complaints about them being in mainline at all, but i don't really recall how many people that was. 20170722 21:34:59< wesnoth-discord-> celmin: ah, ok. I'm not familiar enough with the faction, or with the middle east in general to answer that then. 20170722 21:35:26< celmin> I know the name of the faction has Muslim implications, but AFAIK that's the only Muslim implication in the faction. 20170722 21:35:42< wesnoth-discord-> The irony of the thing is that the loyalist humans kinda reflect medieval england 20170722 21:35:50< celmin> Heh... 20170722 21:35:55-!- vultraz_iOS [uid24821@wesnoth/developer/vultraz] has joined #wesnoth 20170722 21:36:18< celmin> @Pentarctagon - agreed on an After the Fall era. 20170722 21:36:27< wesnoth-discord-> It's just that years of fantasy have trained us to ignore that source when we stick them beside mages and elves. 20170722 21:37:05< wesnoth-discord-> The Khalif 1) don't have that pre-built fantasy association 20170722 21:37:12< wesnoth-discord-> 2) don't get any help. 20170722 21:37:47< wesnoth-discord-> There's no shimmer of fantasy layered over the top to make us forget the association 20170722 21:38:01< wesnoth-discord-> And faction name... uh. Didn't help any. 20170722 21:38:47< wesnoth-discord-> @pydsigner i cant tell hiw much i agree w u 20170722 21:38:54< wesnoth-discord-> It's ironic that at a time when the last modern-usage names were being expunged from campaign heroes, a new faction was being added that just flipped consonantal production variants 20170722 21:39:09< celmin> @pydsigner - Is this an argument for adding djinn? ;) 20170722 21:39:19< wesnoth-discord-> Haha 20170722 21:39:23< wesnoth-discord-> probably part of the problem too, is that IIRC they were deliberately designed to not have any sort of magic 20170722 21:39:55< wesnoth-discord-> The dwarves are the only other faction without magic 20170722 21:40:00< wesnoth-discord-> And they're not human. 20170722 21:40:12< celmin> They do have magic in some campaigns though. 20170722 21:40:24< celmin> The runesmiths. 20170722 21:40:29< wesnoth-discord-> Ah yes 20170722 21:40:38< wesnoth-discord-> And the lorekeepers maybe? 20170722 21:41:02< wesnoth-discord-> So let me rephrase that 20170722 21:41:15< wesnoth-discord-> The Khalifa are the only mainline faction without magic. 20170722 21:41:33-!- synthpopisback [~synthpopi@2606:a000:7947:5000:b872:4603:e968:bd20] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20170722 21:41:34< wesnoth-discord-> I think the faction is interesting 20170722 21:41:41-!- synthpopisback [~synthpopi@2606:a000:7947:5000:b872:4603:e968:bd20] has joined #wesnoth 20170722 21:41:48< wesnoth-discord-> It's just that it feels deliberately non-Wesnoth 20170722 21:42:16< wesnoth-discord-> And so the purist in me screams out that the faction is an awful gloss 20170722 21:42:18< zookeeper> it feels like it'd fit in perfectly in orbivm though :p 20170722 21:42:41< wesnoth-discord-> There are fantasy desert races. 20170722 21:43:03< wesnoth-discord-> If we want to make the Khalifa acceptable, they need to be retooled. 20170722 21:43:29< wesnoth-discord-> Come up with a name for the desert or just call them Desert Folk 20170722 21:43:56< celmin> I wouldn't mind renaming the faction. 20170722 21:44:04< celmin> I'd also highly recommend renaming all of the units. 20170722 21:44:08< wesnoth-discord-> Yes. 20170722 21:44:23< wesnoth-discord-> No other faction uses non-generic names. 20170722 21:44:58< wesnoth-discord-> Desert Swordsman is much more in line with the rest of Wesnoth than 20170722 21:45:00< wesnoth-discord-> Um 20170722 21:45:21< celmin> The fact that you can't remember the name is also pretty relevant IMO. 20170722 21:45:30< celmin> I don't like the name Desert Folk though. 20170722 21:45:44< wesnoth-discord-> That was just an example 20170722 21:45:44< celmin> Something that fits with their Arab flavour would be good IMO. 20170722 21:46:52< wesnoth-discord-> We need a name that dances 20170722 21:47:03< celmin> Dances? 20170722 21:47:20< wesnoth-discord-> Has a feeling of movement 20170722 21:49:16< wesnoth-discord-> Hmm 20170722 21:50:04< wesnoth-discord-> I'm also going to suggest that we need an origin campaign 20170722 21:50:21< celmin> Rise of Wesnoth isn't one? 20170722 21:50:25< wesnoth-discord-> I think it'd make sense for them to be exiles from Wesnoth at some point 20170722 21:50:29< celmin> Or do you mean origin of the Khalifate? 20170722 21:50:41< wesnoth-discord-> origin of 20170722 21:50:52< celmin> Personally I think it makes more sense for them to have no relation to Wesnoth, rather than being exiles... 20170722 21:51:10< wesnoth-discord-> There has to be some interaction with Wesnoth. 20170722 21:51:58< zookeeper> sound relevant to repeat this: a rather rudimentary illustration of human (and orc) colonization of the world (of wesnoth): https://www.dropbox.com/s/m8ebefhc6jd70ru/race_timeline.gif?dl=0 20170722 21:52:09< wesnoth-discord-> Let me review TRoW 20170722 21:52:18< zookeeper> i mean of course the khalifate part isn't officially canonical, but it's the only way that makes sense. 20170722 21:52:19< wesnoth-discord-> which doesn't exactly help them feel as part of Wesnoth either. They're just kinda 'there', and there isn't a clear reason how or why. 20170722 21:52:21< celmin> Why does there have to be some interaction with Wesnoth? 20170722 21:53:02< wesnoth-discord-> celmin: because... it's Battle for Wesnoth and they're mainline? 20170722 21:53:47< wesnoth-discord-> If there's no interaction, we're straight back to "these are Arabs that someone picked up from earth and dropped onto Iryda in a space capsule" 20170722 21:55:27< celmin> ...heh. 20170722 21:55:51< celmin> Well okay, interaction doesn't necessarily mean they share an origin, though... 20170722 21:56:03< wesnoth-discord-> True. 20170722 21:56:14< wesnoth-discord-> but there has to be some sort of "why are they here, how did they get here" sort of thing 20170722 21:56:18< wesnoth-discord-> I'm going to look at TRoW, as I said 20170722 21:57:40< zookeeper> there's not really anything relevant in TRoW except the mention that the old continent has stuff on it 20170722 21:59:10< wesnoth-discord-> no one's saying they need to share a origin. May I suggest that they a nomadic people that have found the desert to be no longer habitable for them, so they migrated westward and came into conflict with Wesnoth 20170722 21:59:19< celmin> "stuff" 20170722 21:59:34< celmin> So they're actually from the eastern side of the Wesnoth continent? 20170722 21:59:50< wesnoth-discord-> well, the map goes on eastward 20170722 22:00:05< celmin> (Or from central areas or whatever.) 20170722 22:00:23< wesnoth-discord-> they could be from the south, idc but the fact is they're not on the map 20170722 22:00:29< wesnoth-discord-> from somewhere that's not on the map yet, basically 20170722 22:00:41< zookeeper> ...whatever their origins, they inhabit the southern desert. let's just first be clear on that. 20170722 22:01:06< wesnoth-discord-> good to know 20170722 22:01:12< celmin> Is that southern desert close enought for sporadic contact with the south of Wesnoth? 20170722 22:01:15< celmin> ^enough 20170722 22:01:42< wesnoth-discord-> Kinda? 20170722 22:01:42< celmin> I'd think Wesnoth at least knows of the desert's presence to the south (maybe sees it as a barrier of sorts). 20170722 22:01:49< wesnoth-discord-> But there's Elves in between 20170722 22:01:59< celmin> Ah? 20170722 22:02:08< zookeeper> ...what 20170722 22:02:19< celmin> I knew there were elves to the south... 20170722 22:02:34< celmin> But are they squarely between Wesnoth and the desert? 20170722 22:02:38< wesnoth-discord-> And according to TSG, I believe there's a river Wesnothians never cross 20170722 22:02:40< zookeeper> obviously not 20170722 22:02:45< zookeeper> has anyone even looked at the maps? 20170722 22:02:49< celmin> Why don't they cross it? 20170722 22:02:59< wesnoth-discord-> Because the Elves 20170722 22:03:03< zookeeper> this is where they are: https://www.dropbox.com/s/4koigtv41jox27o/ooa_maybe_final.png?dl=0 20170722 22:03:03< wesnoth-discord-> aren't friendly 20170722 22:03:09< celmin> So south of the river is the elves' land? 20170722 22:04:14 * celmin wonders if there are any familiar landmarks on that map... 20170722 22:04:47< celmin> Okay, so the elves have probably had sporadic contact with both Wesnoth and the desert people. 20170722 22:05:01< wesnoth-discord-> > For many weeks they marched down nameless paths that no man had trod before. From time to time they saw ghostly images of elven villages and halls in the deep woods, but as they advanced, even those became scarce. 20170722 22:05:05< celmin> So Wesnoth could have learned of the desert through such contact maybe? 20170722 22:05:13< celmin> ??? 20170722 22:05:24< wesnoth-discord-> From TSG, Choice in the Fog 20170722 22:05:39< celmin> That's the one just before they descend into the caves, right? 20170722 22:06:07< celmin> Wait, I guess that's from the storyscreen? 20170722 22:06:38< wesnoth-discord-> Yes 20170722 22:06:42< wesnoth-discord-> and yes 20170722 22:07:03< wesnoth-discord-> > Finally Ethiliel told the men to halt and pitch camp — they had reached the Black River, beyond which no elf or man would willingly pass. 20170722 22:07:31< celmin> Oh, the elves avoid it too, huh... 20170722 22:07:57< wesnoth-discord-> > The Black River is before us. Few elves have crossed it, and fewer still have lingered there long. If the undead come from across the river, then we must search for them carefully, for I know not the way. 20170722 22:09:41< wesnoth-discord-> Ugh why can't I find the full-size map 20170722 22:11:11< wesnoth-discord-> https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/blob/master/data/campaigns/The_South_Guard/images/maps/tsg.png 20170722 22:11:30< wesnoth-discord-> It looks like the black river isn't directly between fortunately 20170722 22:23:10< wesnoth-discord-> celmin: If you look at the TSG map, you can kinda divide it up into thirds from east to west 20170722 22:23:36< wesnoth-discord-> First fold is 20170722 22:23:48< wesnoth-discord-> Second fold is Kerlath 20170722 22:23:55< wesnoth-discord-> Last two folds are Elven 20170722 22:24:22< wesnoth-discord-> (Or last fold is water, if you prefer) 20170722 22:25:12-!- Blukunfando [~bkf@73.red-79-144-69.dynamicip.rima-tde.net] has joined #wesnoth 20170722 22:25:16< celmin> Kerlath? 20170722 22:25:42< APic> WHAT YOU SAY !! 20170722 22:27:05< celmin> Ooh, I see, most of that OoA map is the TSG map just a bit zoomed out. 20170722 22:27:20< celmin> Or I guess… the top left quadrant is roughly that. 20170722 22:27:48< celmin> Is Kerlath like the southernmost "province" of Wesnoth, or something? 20170722 22:27:51< wesnoth-discord-> Yes. 20170722 22:28:13< wesnoth-discord-> celmin: We need to get you brushed up on your Wesnothian histories! 20170722 22:28:20< celmin> <_< 20170722 22:28:33< celmin> Can it be done without major spoilers of the campaigns I haven't completed? :P 20170722 22:29:05< wesnoth-discord-> Well, the easiest way to get around that is just to assign you playing all of those campaigns 😛 20170722 22:29:49< celmin> <_< 20170722 22:29:55< wesnoth-discord-> @djidepide if you're still interested I could play a couple matches w/you. I just registered in the ladder site 20170722 22:30:01< celmin> Can you also grant me 48-hour days? 20170722 22:30:23< wesnoth-discord-> celmin: I'm hoarding every one I've got 20170722 22:36:28-!- Kranix [~magnus@193.88.100.59] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 20170722 22:37:57< zookeeper> oh great, according to the timeline dacyn is 93 years old in EI. 20170722 22:40:02< zookeeper> that's kind of pushing it, i'd say. even delfador is just 75 in HttT. 20170722 22:43:28< wesnoth-discord-> lol 20170722 22:43:41< celmin> Who is Dacyn again? 20170722 22:43:43< wesnoth-discord-> Don't you plan to gallivant across the country side when you're 93? 20170722 22:44:01< celmin> Is he your leader? 20170722 22:44:25< wesnoth-discord-> celmin: advisor to the king, advisor to MC in EI 20170722 22:44:40< celmin> Ah, advisor. 20170722 22:44:54< celmin> 93 does seem to be pushing it though, given the medievalish setting. 20170722 22:45:45< wesnoth-discord-> @Polsaker dm 20170722 22:45:59< wesnoth-discord-> ok 20170722 22:47:03< aeth> It's medieval, but with magic, and presumably the medieval medicine actually works as intended. 20170722 22:47:13< aeth> So lifespans should be longer than in RL 20170722 22:48:02< wesnoth-discord-> Even in modern times it's a really old age for someone to be running around across the country and on the front lines. 20170722 22:48:54< celmin> Ah, that's actually a good point, but... 20170722 22:48:55< wesnoth-discord-> I'm not convinced unless you actually tell me Dacyn is a mage that specializes in lifespan-extending magic (which would incidentally make a great juxtaposition to Mal Ravanal, but let's face it, that's never going to happen because Wesnoth doesn't have the budget for fancy writing like that). 20170722 22:49:19< celmin> I mean aeth had a good point, but then so did shadowm. 20170722 22:52:03< zookeeper> doesn't look like there's any reason for him to have been born so early, unless it's supposed to be some kind of non-coincidence that his birth year is the same as the year delfador dies, but i don't think that's something anyone's ever picked up on. 20170722 22:53:23< wesnoth-discord-> Id understand ppl arguing about fantasy, its all "if"'s 20170722 22:54:46< zookeeper> i wonder how many people understand what that even means 20170722 22:55:01< zookeeper> i think i figured it out 20170722 22:56:12< wesnoth-discord-> What what means? 20170722 22:56:41< zookeeper> i believe "Id" to be some kind of hip lingo for "i don't", but that's just my best guess 20170722 22:57:11< wesnoth-discord-> zookeeper: I thought it was interesting, like Dacyn was fated to be a successor 20170722 22:57:16< celmin> zookeeper: If that's the case I think I'd just push his birth date forward about ten years? 20170722 22:57:41< wesnoth-discord-> Not that it was a reincarnation or anything 20170722 22:57:44< celmin> I mean if it's not supposed to be "some kind of non-coincidence". 20170722 22:58:02< wesnoth-discord-> I actually liked @shadowm's idea 20170722 22:58:33< wesnoth-discord-> And honestly, it fits 20170722 22:58:47< celmin> Does it? 20170722 22:59:23< wesnoth-discord-> Think about it: Delfador: normal mage who gets an artifact and changes a bit "woo lightning" 20170722 22:59:46< wesnoth-discord-> Delfador's successor I believe is a Great Mage 20170722 23:00:01< wesnoth-discord-> But Dacyn is a White Mage 20170722 23:00:58< celmin> If he's a white mage then maybe it would make sense for him to know ways of extending life… since that's presumably related to healing... 20170722 23:00:58< wesnoth-discord-> I NEED HELP PLS ANYONE 20170722 23:01:32< wesnoth-discord-> @djidepide with what? 20170722 23:01:35< wesnoth-discord-> But he accepts the limitations 20170722 23:01:47< wesnoth-discord-> He dies extraordinarily old 20170722 23:01:54< wesnoth-discord-> But not immortal 20170722 23:02:09< wesnoth-discord-> Uhm @Pentarctagon i figured a short term solution, ill dm u a bit later about it if u can 20170722 23:02:56< wesnoth-discord-> I'd rather not throw away some good plot that fell into our laps 20170722 23:03:38< zookeeper> what i haven't figured out yet is what the d in "dm" stands for 20170722 23:03:56< celmin> Direct message? 20170722 23:04:00< zookeeper> ah, maybe 20170722 23:04:06< celmin> It's what I was assuming, anyway. 20170722 23:05:42< wesnoth-discord-> indeed 20170722 23:05:51< wesnoth-discord-> think "Slide into her DMs" 20170722 23:06:10< celmin> You make no sense. 20170722 23:06:13< wesnoth-discord-> which means send someone a direct message with a smooth pickup line 20170722 23:06:15< zookeeper> ...what 20170722 23:06:24< celmin> Yeah really, what? 20170722 23:06:33< celmin> Creepy. 20170722 23:06:38< wesnoth-discord-> hey you wanted to know what DM stood for 20170722 23:06:52< zookeeper> i want to hear more 20170722 23:06:54< celmin> This creepy concept has nothing to do with what DM stands for. 20170722 23:06:56< wesnoth-discord-> I'm giving you a colloquial usage of DM 20170722 23:07:07< celmin> Any usage of DM has nothing to do with what it stands for. 20170722 23:07:31< wesnoth-discord-> really 20170722 23:08:21< wesnoth-discord-> Vultraz had too much sugar, that's normal. But celticminstrel is right in assuming that it stands for Direct Message. 20170722 23:08:27< zookeeper> admittedly, i might be a bit behind on the latest ways to colloquially reference smooth pickup lines via discord 20170722 23:08:29< celmin> ...heh. 20170722 23:08:40< wesnoth-discord-> Lok 20170722 23:08:42< wesnoth-discord-> zookeeper: it has nothing to do with discord 20170722 23:08:45< wesnoth-discord-> * Lol 20170722 23:08:54< celmin> Twitter has DMs too IIRC. 20170722 23:08:57< wesnoth-discord-> DMs are a thing in a lot of apps 20170722 23:08:58< wesnoth-discord-> Twitterpated! 20170722 23:08:59< wesnoth-discord-> including Twitter 20170722 23:09:04< wesnoth-discord-> That's right too. 20170722 23:09:06< celmin> Really just PMs by another name. 20170722 23:09:11< wesnoth-discord-> Yes 20170722 23:09:33< wesnoth-discord-> Because we don't want to over-promise on that 20170722 23:09:37< wesnoth-discord-> and Instagram 20170722 23:09:55< celmin> …over-promise? 20170722 23:09:56< zookeeper> are there any canonical wesnothian pickup lines? smooth, preferably 20170722 23:10:24< wesnoth-discord-> I figure some suit at some point heard about "personal messages" and decided "nope, we can't have that, it sounds too *personal*, it might give folks the wrong idea, find some other term that doesn't imply some kind of intimacy". 20170722 23:10:46< wesnoth-discord-> zookeeper: do you mind if I run up my flag in your village? 20170722 23:10:50< celmin> I always thought PM stood for "private message"> 20170722 23:10:53< wesnoth-discord-> "how about direct?" "you're now chief of the UX team, congratulations" 20170722 23:11:01< celmin> ...heh. 20170722 23:11:05< wesnoth-discord-> heh 20170722 23:11:25< wesnoth-discord-> celmin: in IRC it's private message 20170722 23:11:33< wesnoth-discord-> "Private" would be even worse in the same hypothetical scenario. 20170722 23:12:03< wesnoth-discord-> "private??? people will assume that no-one else can snoop on them when that's clearly not true because of our ties to the NSA" 20170722 23:12:09< celmin> Someone should use PM to mean "public messages" just to confuse everyone. >_> 20170722 23:12:10< wesnoth-discord-> I'm surprised none of you know the phrase "slide into DMs" 😐 20170722 23:12:18< celmin> Why would I know this phrase. 20170722 23:12:24< wesnoth-discord-> because it's a thing! 20170722 23:12:31< wesnoth-discord-> I'm an adult without a life, why would I know that? 20170722 23:12:41< celmin> So because it's a thing it means I should know it? Your logic is terrible there. 20170722 23:12:48< wesnoth-discord-> What @shadowm just mentioned is what I was talking about with over promising 20170722 23:12:51< mattsc> I’ve abandoned things a long time ago. Too much trouble. 20170722 23:13:03< wesnoth-discord-> next you'll tell me you people never heard of turnt, lit, fleek, or fam. 20170722 23:13:12< zookeeper> :o 20170722 23:13:14< wesnoth-discord-> I've heard of "lit" and "fam" only. 20170722 23:13:18< wesnoth-discord-> Hahahaha 20170722 23:13:22< zookeeper> i haven't heard of _any_ of them 20170722 23:13:24< celmin> I have no idea what Vultraz just said. 20170722 23:13:35< celmin> Do I even want to know? 20170722 23:13:38< wesnoth-discord-> see shadowm is more up-to-date than zookeeper 20170722 23:13:39< zookeeper> but hey, language barrier. there's a higher chance i'd know some finnish equivalents. 20170722 23:13:41< wesnoth-discord-> That's on fleek! Woah that's so lit 20170722 23:13:45< wesnoth-discord-> (They also bother me to no end.) 20170722 23:14:13< wesnoth-discord-> That's turnt, fam 20170722 23:14:29< wesnoth-discord-> Or something like that 20170722 23:14:30< celmin> As far as I'm concered, pydsigner might as well be speaking Greek. 20170722 23:14:34< celmin> ^concerned 20170722 23:14:36< wesnoth-discord-> zookeeper: "fam" means, basically, "famlily", used to refer to your squad (aka your bros). 20170722 23:14:39< wesnoth-discord-> family* 20170722 23:14:52< zookeeper> O_____o 20170722 23:14:54< wesnoth-discord-> Who says "squad" 20170722 23:15:00< wesnoth-discord-> Like 20170722 23:15:03< celmin> Nope, never heard it. 20170722 23:15:08< zookeeper> hey, i know this. is your squad like your WINGMEN? 20170722 23:15:09< wesnoth-discord-> People in the police and fire departments. 20170722 23:15:17< wesnoth-discord-> kinda 20170722 23:15:18< celmin> …what the heck do you even mean by squad anyway. 20170722 23:15:36< celmin> Wait so it's like police jargon or something? 20170722 23:15:42< wesnoth-discord-> @shadowm besides the organizational, true meaning 20170722 23:16:01< wesnoth-discord-> some of those sound like someone couldn't spell, and was too embarrassed to admit it 20170722 23:16:09< wesnoth-discord-> See when you in the military, your squad is your closest group 20170722 23:16:10< celmin> Hehe, especially "fleek". 20170722 23:16:13< wesnoth-discord-> Your homies 20170722 23:16:15< wesnoth-discord-> No, I'm just poking fun at the fact that the word is (according to vultraz) being used for some other purpose. 20170722 23:16:16< celmin> Oh "turnt" too. 20170722 23:16:29< wesnoth-discord-> Ugh 20170722 23:16:37< wesnoth-discord-> Next you'll tell me there are brigades and divisions too. 20170722 23:16:40< celmin> Oh, okay. 20170722 23:16:43< wesnoth-discord-> I need to go lie down 20170722 23:16:48< zookeeper> pyd, i was just going to ask if it's a bit like homies 20170722 23:16:57-!- Bonobo [~Bonobo@61.68.206.22] has joined #wesnoth 20170722 23:17:03< wesnoth-discord-> it is 20170722 23:17:05-!- deep-book-gk_ [~1wm_su@5.62.43.15] has joined #wesnoth 20170722 23:17:12< wesnoth-discord-> but no one says homies 20170722 23:17:15< wesnoth-discord-> This is all urban youth slang 20170722 23:17:16< celmin> Lies. 20170722 23:17:21< zookeeper> why? it's still cool 20170722 23:17:22< mattsc> I always thought squads are what you do to get your quads hurting. 20170722 23:17:28< celmin> ... 20170722 23:17:31< wesnoth-discord-> ........ 20170722 23:17:33< zookeeper> i still remember the time i thought "homie" meant "homeless person" 20170722 23:17:44< wesnoth-discord-> I actually laughed, mattsc 20170722 23:17:49< wesnoth-discord-> "I'mma go get pizza with my homies from the 10th division tonight" 20170722 23:17:58< mattsc> (and yes, the spelling mistake was intentionally in that case) 20170722 23:18:16< mattsc> (but the grammar mistake in this last line was not :P ) 20170722 23:18:26< celmin> :P 20170722 23:18:26-!- deep-book-gk_ [~1wm_su@5.62.43.15] has left #wesnoth [] 20170722 23:18:49< wesnoth-discord-> zookeeper: "lit" means something is awesome 20170722 23:19:01< celmin> So why not just say awesome? 20170722 23:19:08< wesnoth-discord-> "ever met Lieutenant General Jerry from across the street? he's a real lit guy" 20170722 23:19:10< celmin> Then everyone will know what you mean. 20170722 23:19:11< wesnoth-discord-> Too long 20170722 23:19:18< celmin> It's only two syllables! 20170722 23:19:27< wesnoth-discord-> And you don't want people to know 20170722 23:19:42< celmin> But if you really need something shorter, there's always words like "cool" or "neat". 20170722 23:19:47< wesnoth-discord-> This is a new generation's slang! 20170722 23:19:55< celmin> Resounding meh! 20170722 23:19:56< wesnoth-discord-> who the hell says "neat" 20170722 23:19:56< zookeeper> is it lit as in on fire as in totally cool as in awesome? 20170722 23:20:06< celmin> Plenty of people, I'm sure. 20170722 23:20:09< wesnoth-discord-> Yes 20170722 23:20:13< wesnoth-discord-> A lot of people. 20170722 23:20:24< wesnoth-discord-> I say neat and cool 20170722 23:20:40< zookeeper> i'm learning a lot about how to hang out with the cool kids, tonight 20170722 23:20:43< celmin> I generally don't actually, but occasionally... 20170722 23:20:44< wesnoth-discord-> I guess I'm from the previous generation or something 20170722 23:20:45< wesnoth-discord-> who *doesn't* ever say neat? 20170722 23:20:50< wesnoth-discord-> zookeeper: yeah. IRC it has roots with weed 20170722 23:20:52< celmin> <-- 20170722 23:21:07< celmin> Oh that actually makes some semblance of sense. 20170722 23:21:20< wesnoth-discord-> Even though I'm, say, 2 years older than Vultraz 20170722 23:21:21< wesnoth-discord-> IRC's creation must have involved weed, indeed. 20170722 23:21:35< wesnoth-discord-> hehe 20170722 23:21:39< wesnoth-discord-> IIRC* 20170722 23:21:50< celmin> Wait, isn't Vultraz pretty young though? 20170722 23:21:55< wesnoth-discord-> The finest Finnish weed. 20170722 23:21:56< wesnoth-discord-> Yes 20170722 23:21:57< wesnoth-discord-> yes 20170722 23:22:10< celmin> So if you're only two years older that's like… college age or something? 20170722 23:22:10< wesnoth-discord-> they have weed in finland? 20170722 23:22:15< wesnoth-discord-> i thought they only had vodka 20170722 23:22:27< wesnoth-discord-> I have no idea, but people who actually write ircds (i.e. IRC servers) would agree with my statement. 20170722 23:22:32< celmin> I assume they have it nearly everywhere. 20170722 23:22:35< zookeeper> vultraz, weed? you mean dinkie dow? hot stick? cheeba? bammy? ashes? 20170722 23:22:41< celmin> ... 20170722 23:22:48< wesnoth-discord-> celmin: I'm not legal yet actually 20170722 23:22:52< wesnoth-discord-> LOL 20170722 23:23:01< celmin> I've heard other slang for weed, but none of those. 20170722 23:23:22< wesnoth-discord-> zookeeper: put the Urban Dictionary down 20170722 23:23:27< celmin> …heh. 20170722 23:23:30< wesnoth-discord-> It's not good for you 20170722 23:23:33< zookeeper> no it was another site :> 20170722 23:23:43< wesnoth-discord-> no one says those 😛 20170722 23:23:53< wesnoth-discord-> Says you 20170722 23:23:58< celmin> ^ 20170722 23:24:11< wesnoth-discord-> I thought no one said neat? 20170722 23:24:13< celmin> They wouldn't be listed anywhere if no-one says them, 20170722 23:24:21< wesnoth-discord-> But obviously people do 20170722 23:24:22< celmin> ... 20170722 23:24:32< wesnoth-discord-> you'd be surprised what you can find on UD 20170722 23:24:44< wesnoth-discord-> Mostly made-up crap 20170722 23:24:49< wesnoth-discord-> neat 20170722 23:24:50< wesnoth-discord-> indeed 20170722 23:25:01< zookeeper> idd 20170722 23:25:14< celmin> Well okay, Urban Dictionary might be partly made-up, sure. 20170722 23:25:14< wesnoth-discord-> Or stuff that's so niche that you'd be hard-pressed you find anyone outside a tiny group of 10 people using it. 20170722 23:26:21< zookeeper> i don't recall going browsing it, but still tends to help you translate weird words and phrases you encounter 20170722 23:26:59< celmin> I'd imagine that the definitions of words on Urban Dictionary that are actually used would tend to be somewhat reliable. 20170722 23:27:09< wesnoth-discord-> maybe there are finnish equivalenets for this stuff 20170722 23:27:10< wesnoth-discord-> "A Tourist's Guide to Modern English" 20170722 23:27:11< celmin> ie, if you hear something and look it up on UD it'll probably be right. 20170722 23:27:30< wesnoth-discord-> but all I know about finland is they have vodka and they're anti-social 20170722 23:27:44< celmin> I never thought of vodka as a Finnish thing. 20170722 23:27:48< celmin> Isn't it a Russian thing? 20170722 23:27:51< wesnoth-discord-> Russian 20170722 23:27:54< wesnoth-discord-> very russian 20170722 23:27:54< zookeeper> yeah 20170722 23:28:18< wesnoth-discord-> still, if they're anti-social why would they have social slang 20170722 23:28:26< wesnoth-discord-> maybe they don't have the vodka 20170722 23:28:31< zookeeper> and yes, vultraz, i'm pretty sure all languages have colloquial social slang 20170722 23:28:39< celmin> ^ 20170722 23:29:17< wesnoth-discord-> fair enough 20170722 23:31:46< zookeeper> vultraz, is "dank" still current? 20170722 23:32:11< wesnoth-discord-> i believe so 20170722 23:32:13< wesnoth-discord-> but I'm not sure 20170722 23:32:36< zookeeper> you're not sure! :| 20170722 23:32:39< wesnoth-discord-> you mean like dank og bud? 20170722 23:32:45< wesnoth-discord-> or dank memes 20170722 23:32:47< zookeeper> is that an orc name? 20170722 23:32:59< Bonobo> a lot of slang is also regional. Words like drongo which mean little to most people outside of Australia 20170722 23:33:08< wesnoth-discord-> dank og bud = great weed 20170722 23:33:26< zookeeper> :o 20170722 23:33:26< Bonobo> so it's hard to know what's niche or widely used in other places 20170722 23:33:34< zookeeper> vultraz, where did you learn such a thing 20170722 23:33:52< wesnoth-discord-> OG in and of itself is a term of its own 20170722 23:34:47< wesnoth-discord-> "original gangster" but used to just mean "the first" or "the original" in general 20170722 23:35:08< wesnoth-discord-> so if i said zookeeper is an OG wesnoth developer it would mean he's one of the originals 20170722 23:35:28< zookeeper> groovy 20170722 23:35:30< wesnoth-discord-> it also has the connotation of being "good" 20170722 23:37:16< zookeeper> as in, not a scrub? 20170722 23:37:28< wesnoth-discord-> ehhh 20170722 23:37:29< wesnoth-discord-> not really 20170722 23:37:41< wesnoth-discord-> OG isn't the opposite of scrub i don't think 20170722 23:38:14< wesnoth-discord-> i mean you don't say someone's the og if they aren't also good 20170722 23:38:33< wesnoth-discord-> opposite of scrub is pro i think 20170722 23:38:49< zookeeper> totes 20170722 23:39:03< wesnoth-discord-> "totes" XD 20170722 23:40:17-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20170722 23:44:06< zookeeper> @pydsigner, on a more serious note, i have a hard time seeing how you'd weave in "dacyn is a white mage who has magically been extending his life" into EI without it coming across as a weird random thing. 20170722 23:49:30< zookeeper> i mean, yeah his arch-rival is a lich and undeath is kind of like life extension, but what would it add if dacyn was at the same time also extending his life with "good magic"? 20170722 23:49:52< zookeeper> it just doesn't ring a drama bell for me 20170722 23:52:47< wesnoth-discord-> I wanna make a yt channel w replays of ladder games, what do yall think? 20170722 23:56:59< Bonobo> @djidepide there already exists one or two of those such as https://www.youtube.com/user/SkyVioletShadow though I dunno if any have posted recently 20170722 23:57:09< wesnoth-discord-> There's not much of a reason not to. Just don't expect to make tons of money from it or anything - Wesnoth isn't popular enough for that 😛 20170722 23:57:44< Bonobo> I think someone in the last couple of months actually streamed a few games on twitch but I don't remember who it was 20170722 23:59:03< wesnoth-discord-> Bonobo yeah, i watch sky all the time, but his last BfW vid was a year ago so i wanna continue it 20170722 23:59:09< wesnoth-discord-> Not for the money but for ppl 20170722 23:59:47< Bonobo> if it's what you want to do, sure, go ahead --- Log closed Sun Jul 23 00:00:49 2017