--- Log opened Wed Aug 09 00:00:11 2017
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20170809 09:04:24< gvghjlkc> Hello. I just saw Haf-Mal (Lich from Isle of the Damn) being healed on a Oasis! Terrain description says nothing about it. Is this a bug?
20170809 09:09:13< gvghjlkc> I'm talking about the oasis 2 hexes south of his keep. No village there nor a healer around.
20170809 09:22:37< DeFender1031> Oases do heal IIRC.
20170809 09:23:16< DeFender1031> Yes, oases heal.
20170809 09:26:01< DeFender1031> Terrain descriptions are about the base terrain type, so they wouldn't mention that about an oasis. Then again, perhaps they ought to.
20170809 09:28:39< gvghjlkc> I didn't know that and I have read all articles on f1-help. Shouldn't being mentioned on "Healing" article at least? This is a huge tactics-changer! I just wasted my time by playing that scenario without knowing that :-(
20170809 09:31:10< DeFender1031> Honestly, I think all the terrains ought to have their own descriptions without just referring you to the base type. But especially ones with special effects such as an oasis. Problem is, the help dialog is one of the more messy parts of the code and I don't know how difficult it'd be to have descriptions for non-base types.
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20170809 09:32:01< zookeeper> umm, if you right-click on the oasis and take "terrain description", it _does_ take you to a page that lists healing
20170809 09:32:44< zookeeper> although that page is clearly more like a debug thing than a player-friendly page... and i don't know why oasis is not listed under the "sands" category
20170809 09:33:17< zookeeper> oh, nevermind, my bad
20170809 09:33:25< zookeeper> the detailed info i was seeing is indeed only visible in debug mode
20170809 09:33:49< zookeeper> so, yeah, oasis should definitely have its own proper description that mentions healing
20170809 09:36:22< gvghjlkc> or an add on "Healing" article about oasis
20170809 09:38:48< gvghjlkc> that's the simplest for devs to do and no newcomer will miss that article, right?
20170809 09:40:47< zookeeper> i don't even know what you mean. i'm just going to add some text to the oasis page and make sure it shows up in the Terrains->Sands category
20170809 09:42:10< zookeeper> "A welcome sight to any traveler, an oasis allows units to heal as if stationed in a village, but provides no income or defensive advantage." <- improvement suggestions welcome
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20170809 09:48:27< gvghjlkc> F1 > Gameplay > Healing. Nobody will ever read a random terrain description, but the Healing article is too basic to miss. Add a text there. That's my suggestion. Or to both, preferably.
20170809 09:51:48< zookeeper> well, sure, the bit about healing in villages could mention oases too
20170809 09:55:01 * DeFender1031 is in favor of everything said above.
20170809 09:58:05< gvghjlkc> Yes ok. I'm glad I helped you to improve something. Your suggested terrain description above is a nice little text by the way.
20170809 09:59:07< gvghjlkc> Damn! I was 1 turn away from victory and now I should re-play the whole scenario from the start. Damn! "Isle of Damn" surely justifies its name [bitter laugh]
20170809 09:59:41< gvghjlkc> Thanks for listening and bye.
20170809 09:59:52< Bonobo> +1 to this. A significant proportion of players I've met on the mp server didn't know about oases even after playing multiple of the campaigns
20170809 10:00:27< nore> Long-time player here, didn't know either
20170809 10:00:44-!- gvghjlkc is now known as Tecraus
20170809 10:01:40< nore> And I started playing back in the 1.6 days, IIRC
20170809 10:02:44< Tecraus> A trivial question before I go: What race the name Tecraus sounds better for?
20170809 10:03:16< nore> Adding some note to one of the introductory campaigns would be nice, if possible :) 
20170809 10:04:21< Bonobo> zookeeper, just btw the word is traveller with a double l in proper (non-American) English. Today I've learnt another word the Americans spell incorrectly
20170809 10:05:32< Bonobo> it's really nice that there's a GB/America language option
20170809 10:07:02< wesnoth-discord-> <jyrkive> The game's reference texts are in American English. British English is a separate localization maintained by a separate localization team.
20170809 10:10:05< Tecraus> Does the name Tecraus sound human, elvish or something else, guys? 
20170809 10:11:12< nore> Tecraus: my best guess would be human
20170809 10:12:00< Tecraus> nore: warrior or mage?
20170809 10:12:57< Bonobo> @jyrkive interesting, I guess that makes sense since Dave is from the US
20170809 10:14:42< wesnoth-discord-> <jyrkive> That's how most games work. And non-native English speakers (myself included) usually try to use American English on the Internet because we get subjected to it more often. If I tried to use British English, I'd just end up mixing American and British, which (according to English teachers I have had) is definitely the worst option.
20170809 10:15:51< wesnoth-discord-> <jyrkive> (Funnily enough, at work I'm developing a game that does use British English as the reference language. The reason is that we're using an IP licenced from BBC.)
20170809 10:29:24< nore> Tecraus: no idea
20170809 10:34:35< Tecraus> nore and all: I found a really funny webpage. It might by useful for someone who wants to design a scenario and don't know how to name the characters! Enjoy ---> http://www.fantasynamegenerators.com/ 
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20170809 17:45:04< shadowm> Anyone well-versed in MediaWiki who would know how to get the name of the page including a template, from the template?
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20170809 19:03:20< DeFender1031> shadowm, IIRC that's {{PAGENAME}} but let me check for certain.
20170809 19:06:01< DeFender1031> yeah.
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20170809 19:43:37< shadowm> Yeah I found the answer eventually.
20170809 19:43:49< shadowm> And yet nothing works like I want it to.
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20170809 20:01:40< DeFender1031> I'm a little rusty, but I used to be quite the MW template whiz. Anything I can help with?
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20170809 20:07:38< DeFender1031> shadowm, ^^^
20170809 20:12:43< shadowm> Mhmm.
20170809 20:13:47< shadowm> Have you seen the pages in the wiki that have a translation choices box at the top?
20170809 20:14:03< DeFender1031> Not sure. Sample link?
20170809 20:14:26< shadowm> https://wiki.wesnoth.org/Play
20170809 20:14:31< shadowm> https://wiki.wesnoth.org/Create
20170809 20:14:35< shadowm> And others.
20170809 20:14:57< DeFender1031> i see. Okay.
20170809 20:15:01< DeFender1031> What about them?
20170809 20:15:20< shadowm> If you check how they are implemented, it is like this:
20170809 20:15:54< shadowm> * Translators make pages like PageName/langcode
20170809 20:16:15< DeFender1031> And then there is another template page at PageName/translations, yeah, I see that.
20170809 20:16:26< shadowm> * They update Template:PageName/Translations (or so) as needed
20170809 20:16:40< DeFender1031> You want a template that just automatically looks for the translation pages.
20170809 20:16:42< shadowm> * There are several Template:PageName/Translations pages as a result.
20170809 20:16:53< DeFender1031> I assume.
20170809 20:17:04< shadowm> * All of them need to be updated individually in order to change the translation box layout/style/etc.
20170809 20:17:04< DeFender1031> Is that correct?
20170809 20:17:46< shadowm> So my plan was to create a Template:PageTranslations page that can be included at the top of each page and list translations using DPL and format them nicely in one single place.
20170809 20:18:43< DeFender1031> You shouldn't need DPL for that
20170809 20:18:52< DeFender1031> ParserFunctions should be enough
20170809 20:19:05< shadowm> How would you do it using PF?
20170809 20:19:06< DeFender1031> (Assuing it's installed.)
20170809 20:19:10< shadowm> Also, this is what I had: https://pastebin.com/CjNDmD56
20170809 20:19:41< shadowm> It's not working because for some mysterious reason #switch in the last template doens't match anything passed to it by DPL.
20170809 20:20:27< DeFender1031> I would just make a template with a series of {{#ifexist:{{PAGENAME}}/en|English}} {{#ifexist:{{PAGENAME}}/es|Espanol}}, etc.
20170809 20:20:45< shadowm> #ifexist has an execution limit per page.
20170809 20:21:25< shadowm> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Extension:ParserFunctions#ifexist_limits
20170809 20:21:48< shadowm> That's also a very clunky approach and doesn't work both ways.
20170809 20:21:51< DeFender1031> Legit.
20170809 20:21:56< shadowm> I want the template to be the same for the original and the translated pages.
20170809 20:22:11< DeFender1031> what do you mean?
20170809 20:22:21< DeFender1031> oh
20170809 20:22:25< DeFender1031> hmm
20170809 20:22:29< DeFender1031> yeah, that'd be a problem.
20170809 20:22:44< DeFender1031> There's definitely a way to do it with DPL also.
20170809 20:22:52< shadowm> That people should just include {{PageTranslations}} at the top of the translated page and its translations and it should work without any additional work from them.
20170809 20:23:04< DeFender1031> Your approach seems to be on the right track.
20170809 20:24:26< DeFender1031> Oh yeah, and of course PF is installed... you're using titleparts.
20170809 20:24:42< DeFender1031> lemme see what I can do with this...
20170809 20:24:51< shadowm> Special:Version shows all that is installed.
20170809 20:25:11< shadowm> The production version of the wiki is using an older 3rd-party version of DPL, my test instance is using DPL3.
20170809 20:26:42< DeFender1031> hmm
20170809 20:32:05< DeFender1031> isn't your titleparts call to the switch missing the parameter?
20170809 20:32:55< DeFender1031> Shouldn't it be {{#titleparts: {{{1}}} | 1 | 2}}?
20170809 20:33:37< DeFender1031> also on line 11 in your paste, you're assuming that %TITLE% contains only the language code
20170809 20:33:44< DeFender1031> but I think it contains the full title, no?
20170809 20:34:25< DeFender1031> or am I getting confused?
20170809 20:34:51< DeFender1031> If you kill the switch and just display the parameter directly, what does it show?
20170809 20:36:39< shadowm> Regarding line 11, see line 10.
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20170809 20:37:13< shadowm> That's the thing. If I display the parameter, it displays literally what it should match in the #switch (e.g. "es").
20170809 20:37:50< DeFender1031> huh... odd.
20170809 20:38:11< DeFender1031> oh, yes, line 10 would do that.
20170809 20:38:19< DeFender1031> forgot that you could do that
20170809 20:38:31< wesnoth-discord-> <shadowm> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/231976805987385345/344942543303213058/Spectacle.q20074.png
20170809 20:39:22< shadowm> That's when prepending "{{{1}}}" right before the {#switch}.
20170809 20:39:27< DeFender1031> right
20170809 20:39:45< shadowm> As far as I can see in the emitted HTML, there are no hidden characters or anything that would make it not match.
20170809 20:40:11< DeFender1031> why do you have titleparts in the switch at all if you're just getting back the entire parameter anyway?
20170809 20:40:23< DeFender1031> could the spaces be messing it up?
20170809 20:40:37< DeFender1031> I don't remember if " es =" trims to "es="
20170809 20:40:56< shadowm> I wanted to see if the #titleparts could force it to get properly parsed in some way.
20170809 20:41:07< DeFender1031> ah
20170809 20:41:29< shadowm> Nope, removing the whitespace doesn't make a difference.
20170809 20:41:30< DeFender1031> let's eliminate the obvious first though, wanna try without the spaces?
20170809 20:41:33< DeFender1031> okay
20170809 20:44:26< DeFender1031> you're right, then. this code SHOULD be working...
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20170809 20:50:05< DeFender1031> and you even put quotes around them to show there's no whitespace...
20170809 20:50:11< DeFender1031> hmm...
20170809 20:52:40< DeFender1031> it's possible that this is a bug with one of the extensions (or with the interaction between the two)...
20170809 20:53:24< DeFender1031> though I tend to only cry "language bug" after extensive testing and exhausting all other possibilities.
20170809 20:53:47< DeFender1031> on the other hand, you're clearly passing something to the {{#switch}} which matches one of its cases.
20170809 20:55:54< DeFender1031> Here's a simpler test: {{#ifeq:{{{1}}}|es|Match|Huh?}}
20170809 20:56:27< DeFender1031> Though I imagine the result will be the same.
20170809 20:56:44< DeFender1031> (I'd screw with this all myself if I had access...)
20170809 20:58:16< shadowm> "Huh?"
20170809 20:58:32< DeFender1031> Yeah, as I thought.
20170809 20:58:36< shadowm> That's what it says when purportedly passed "es".
20170809 20:58:43< DeFender1031> wait what?
20170809 20:59:04< DeFender1031> you're saying that {{#ifeq:es|es|Match|Huh?}} output "Huh?"?????
20170809 20:59:44< shadowm> Yes.
20170809 21:00:09< DeFender1031> that... umm...
20170809 21:00:31< DeFender1031> that shouldn't be possible.
20170809 21:00:46< DeFender1031> It sounds like you have more broken than one template.
20170809 21:00:51< shadowm> If it's passed using template parameters, anyway. If I actually put "es" in the template it matches.
20170809 21:00:56< DeFender1031> right.
20170809 21:01:07< DeFender1031> but even so, template parameters SHOULD still work...
20170809 21:01:16< shadowm> I'll swap DPL3 with the legacy version wiki.w.o uses to see if it makes a difference.
20170809 21:01:27< DeFender1031> what if you do {{#ifeq:{{{1|}}}|es|Match|Huh?}}?
20170809 21:01:36< DeFender1031> (note the pipe after the 1)
20170809 21:02:15< DeFender1031> that shouldn't be necessary, but I seem to recall having encountered weirdness in the past where I was definitely passing a parameter but for some reason something didn't work right wihtout the |
20170809 21:02:42< shadowm> (I could also try upgrading MW to the latest stable, but...)
20170809 21:02:57< shadowm> Let me see...
20170809 21:03:24< shadowm> Nope, still doesn't match.
20170809 21:03:58< DeFender1031> damn
20170809 21:04:09< DeFender1031> yeah, so something about your wiki is borked.
20170809 21:04:42< DeFender1031> either the wiki code itself, or the PF extension, or php... because those strings should definitely be matching.
20170809 21:04:55< shadowm> Nope, the live version of DPL doesn't make a difference.
20170809 21:04:55< DeFender1031> I'm sorry I couldn't be of more help.
20170809 21:05:08< shadowm> PF is part of MediaWiki itself, so to upgrade it I'd have to upgrade the whole thing to the latest stable branch.
20170809 21:05:25< shadowm> And I was hoping to stick to LTS for as long as possible.
20170809 21:05:26< DeFender1031> it is?
20170809 21:05:31< shadowm> Yes.
20170809 21:05:33< DeFender1031> i thought it was an extension.
20170809 21:05:40< shadowm> Yes but it's bundled.
20170809 21:05:43< DeFender1031> ah.
20170809 21:06:02< DeFender1031> I don't think it's always been so.
20170809 21:10:30< DeFender1031> I seem to recall having had to ask for it to be installed on the wiki at my previous workplace (don't ask.)
20170809 21:10:43< DeFender1031> Or maybe just enabled?
20170809 21:10:50< DeFender1031> Meh, whatever, doesn't matter.
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20170809 21:45:25< shadowm> It's not enabled by default, that's for sure -- none of the bundled extensions are.
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20170809 23:47:14< shadowm> Just upgraded my test instance to 1.29.0...
20170809 23:47:44< shadowm> Yay, ?action=purge now asks for confirmation. Who ever thought this was a good idea?
20170809 23:47:58< shadowm> And the template is still broken.
20170809 23:48:03-!- vultraz_iOS [uid24821@wesnoth/developer/vultraz] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
20170809 23:58:01< wesnoth-discord-> <shadowm> Wot.
20170809 23:58:02< wesnoth-discord-> <shadowm> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/231976805987385345/344992751210987520/Spectacle.c31450.png
20170809 23:58:44-!- Bonobo [~Bonobo@203.220.138.162] has joined #wesnoth
20170809 23:59:33< wesnoth-discord-> <shadowm> I had unbalanced braces (i.e. `{{{1}}`) in the LanguageNames template.
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--- Log closed Thu Aug 10 00:00:13 2017