--- Log opened Thu Aug 17 00:00:08 2017 --- Day changed Thu Aug 17 2017 20170817 00:00:08-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20170817 00:35:13-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@59.63.248.241] has joined #wesnoth 20170817 00:37:23-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@59.63.248.241] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170817 00:55:38-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@59.63.248.241] has joined #wesnoth 20170817 00:55:41-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@59.63.248.241] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170817 01:07:45-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170817 01:07:53-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20170817 01:26:00-!- FeXoR [~FeXoR@p4FDEF7D3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20170817 01:35:58-!- Johannes13 [~Johannes1@unaffiliated/johannes13] has joined #wesnoth 20170817 01:39:27-!- DasBrain [~Johannes1@unaffiliated/johannes13] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20170817 01:42:27-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@59.63.248.241] has joined #wesnoth 20170817 01:42:37-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@59.63.248.241] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170817 02:02:10-!- Smedles [~quassel@CPE-58-160-75-119.ssqn1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has joined #wesnoth 20170817 02:03:02-!- Narrat [~Narrat@p5DCC65C3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance.] 20170817 02:04:47-!- ArneBab_ [~quassel@55d40042.access.ecotel.net] has joined #wesnoth 20170817 02:04:47-!- ArneBab_ [~quassel@55d40042.access.ecotel.net] has quit [Changing host] 20170817 02:04:47-!- ArneBab_ [~quassel@freenet/developer/arnebab] has joined #wesnoth 20170817 02:08:29-!- ArneBab [~quassel@freenet/developer/arnebab] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20170817 02:34:00< wesnoth-discord-> just put it to steam when 1.14 is done guys 20170817 02:34:06< wesnoth-discord-> and add hundreds achievements 20170817 03:16:40-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170817 03:16:46-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20170817 03:40:47-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@59.63.248.241] has joined #wesnoth 20170817 03:40:58-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@59.63.248.241] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170817 04:35:03-!- Johannes13 is now known as DasBrain 20170817 04:36:39-!- Johannes13 [~Johannes1@unaffiliated/johannes13] has joined #wesnoth 20170817 04:39:41-!- DasBrain [~Johannes1@unaffiliated/johannes13] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20170817 04:42:07-!- lobby_ [~wesnoth@wesnoth/bot/lobby] has quit [K-Lined] --- Log closed Thu Aug 17 11:40:14 2017 --- Log opened Thu Aug 17 11:40:17 2017 20170817 11:40:26-!- lobby [~wesnoth@wesnoth/bot/lobby] has joined #wesnoth 20170817 11:40:26-!- Topic for #wesnoth: Check out our Discord server: https://discord.gg/tSmJS2E | Wesnoth User Channel | http://wesnoth.org | Latest stable version 1.12.6 | Latest development version 1.13.8 | Check the upness of Wesnoth servers: http://status.wesnoth.org | >> Want to help? Go here: http://r.wesnoth.org/t42911 (and thanks!) << | Public IRC logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin! 20170817 11:40:26-!- Topic set by iwaim [~iwaim@rasteenie.alib.jp] [Sun Aug 6 19:13:16 2017] 20170817 11:40:26[Users #wesnoth] 20170817 11:40:26[ aeth ] [ DeFender ] [ heyalex[m]] [ loonycyborg ] [ Polsaker ] [ Technaton ] 20170817 11:40:26[ APic ] [ dobson ] [ Ipsilon ] [ madmax28 ] [ prophile ] [ TheJJ ] 20170817 11:40:26[ Appleman1234] [ EliDupree ] [ Ivanovic ] [ MadMerlin2 ] [ Ravana_ ] [ ToBeCloud ] 20170817 11:40:26[ ArneBab ] [ elouin ] [ iwaim ] [ metronomicon] [ shadowm ] [ vincent_c ] 20170817 11:40:26[ Bonobo ] [ Elsi ] [ janebot ] [ minzbonbon ] [ Smedles ] [ vultraz_iOS ] 20170817 11:40:26[ clavi ] [ Elvish_Hunter] [ Jetrel_bot] [ namad7 ] [ Soliton ] [ wesnoth-discord-] 20170817 11:40:26[ cyphase ] [ Falcon` ] [ jurkan ] [ nore ] [ synthpopisback] [ Xjs|moonshine ] 20170817 11:40:26[ DasBrain ] [ Gambit ] [ lipkab ] [ oldlaptop ] [ TC01 ] [ yaiyan ] 20170817 11:40:26[ DDR ] [ Guest87702 ] [ lobby ] [ PjotrOrial ] [ TC02 ] [ zookeeper ] 20170817 11:40:26-!- Irssi: #wesnoth: Total of 54 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 54 normal] 20170817 11:40:26-!- Home page for #wesnoth: http://www.wesnoth.org 20170817 11:40:29-!- Channel #wesnoth created Sun Nov 26 06:42:43 2006 20170817 11:41:21-!- Irssi: Join to #wesnoth was synced in 63 secs 20170817 11:55:34-!- HeyCitizen [~citizen@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/heycitizen] has joined #wesnoth 20170817 12:04:53-!- Kwandulin [~Kwandulin@p200300E453CC3B53409BE436434C9FC1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth 20170817 12:26:14-!- Kwandulin [~Kwandulin@p200300E453CC3B53409BE436434C9FC1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20170817 12:33:04-!- ToBeCloud [uid51591@wikimedia/ToBeFree] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 20170817 13:30:01-!- Bonobo [~Bonobo@203.220.138.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20170817 13:30:27-!- DasBrain [~Johannes1@unaffiliated/johannes13] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20170817 13:33:16-!- DasBrain [~Johannes1@unaffiliated/johannes13] has joined #wesnoth 20170817 13:33:21-!- Haudegen [~quassel@212-186-77-29.static.upcbusiness.at] has joined #wesnoth 20170817 13:34:07-!- Johannes13 [~Johannes1@unaffiliated/johannes13] has joined #wesnoth 20170817 13:35:58-!- Guest87702 is now known as elias 20170817 13:36:27-!- elias is now known as Guest94034 20170817 13:37:27-!- DasBrain [~Johannes1@unaffiliated/johannes13] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20170817 13:37:54-!- Guest94034 [~allefant@allefant.com] has quit [Changing host] 20170817 13:37:54-!- Guest94034 [~allefant@allegro/developer/allefant] has joined #wesnoth 20170817 13:38:13-!- Guest94034 is now known as allefant 20170817 13:46:52-!- Johannes13 [~Johannes1@unaffiliated/johannes13] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20170817 13:47:53-!- DasBrain [~Johannes1@unaffiliated/johannes13] has joined #wesnoth 20170817 13:52:18-!- DasBrain [~Johannes1@unaffiliated/johannes13] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20170817 15:00:07-!- allefant is now known as elias 20170817 15:11:29-!- Kwandulin [~Kwandulin@p200300E453CC3B53409BE436434C9FC1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth 20170817 15:12:22-!- aeth [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20170817 15:14:02-!- aeth [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has joined #wesnoth 20170817 15:32:21-!- vultraz_iOS [uid24821@wesnoth/developer/vultraz] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 20170817 15:35:51-!- Kwandulin [~Kwandulin@p200300E453CC3B53409BE436434C9FC1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20170817 16:26:36-!- Kwandulin [~Kwandulin@p200300E453CC3B53409BE436434C9FC1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth 20170817 16:32:13< wesnoth-discord-> oooo achievemnts sound niiice 20170817 16:45:30< DeFender> Ugh. 20170817 16:45:40< DeFender> Why does everybody LOVE achievements?! 20170817 16:59:42-!- Narrat [~Narrat@p5DCC65C3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth 20170817 17:01:28-!- Soo_Slow [~devnu11@ppp91-122-149-24.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #wesnoth 20170817 17:08:17< elias> they give you a reason to play... 20170817 17:08:32< elias> otherwise it's just a waste of time with no return 20170817 17:28:16< DeFender> That's stupid. The reason to play is because the game is interesting. 20170817 17:28:57< wesnoth-discord-> Personally, as a player I ignore achievements. It's fun to get one, but I don't intentionally attempt to get them. 20170817 17:29:10< DeFender> I don't see how they give you any more return than winning whatever part of the game you're playing does. 20170817 17:44:01-!- vultraz_iOS [uid24821@wesnoth/developer/vultraz] has joined #wesnoth 20170817 17:48:58-!- Soo_Slow [~devnu11@ppp91-122-149-24.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru] has quit [Quit: Soo_Slow] 20170817 17:51:57< elias> I don't know, imagine there's an achievement for completing HttT on hard - it would make me want to play through it again 20170817 17:52:40< elias> or an achievement to complete it without ever reloading... it would make me want to attempt that 20170817 17:57:34< DeFender> Are people incabable of setting gameplay challenges for themselves without a formalized system for doing so? 20170817 17:59:13< shadowm> Well, sorryyyyy. 20170817 18:05:01-!- Haudegen [~quassel@212-186-77-29.static.upcbusiness.at] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20170817 18:07:28< zookeeper> elias, i just don't understand why it's important that the game specifically acknowledges that "hey i noticed you completed the campaign on hard, you're a pro, have a formal achievement thingy" 20170817 18:08:33< zookeeper> does it really feel so different from, you know, just knowing that you've completed it on hard? 20170817 18:08:56< wesnoth-discord-> with usual achievements, that means others know too 20170817 18:09:09< wesnoth-discord-> IMHO, it does. I like the feeling of seeing the achievement notification. 😃 20170817 18:16:02< zookeeper> i can understand completion counters like "x/100 magic stars collected", but formalized achievements of the usual kind... i don't get it. there's something banal about the whole thing. but anyway... a more practical reason against the system is that it's inevitably going to lead to problems when scenarios are rewritten and other major changes are made to campaigns. that, or everyone would be 20170817 18:16:02< zookeeper> annoyed when their achievements would be wiped every 1-2-3 years when updating to a new stable series. 20170817 18:20:53< zookeeper> to clarify: if we keep the current stable/dev release system, then achievements will probably largely need to be wiped between stable versions. and if we adopt some kind of continuous release model, then it's going to become a mess when there are major changes made to campaigns, units, whatever. 20170817 18:22:24< DeFender> zookeeper, exactly, though I apparently couldn't articulate it as well as you. 20170817 18:28:52-!- Kwandulin [~Kwandulin@p200300E453CC3B53409BE436434C9FC1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20170817 18:32:19< Elvish_Hunter> Another reason why people like achievements is that usually they're rewarded with some pieces of the in-game premium currency (in most games it's some kind of gem). What kind of reward might get a Wesnoth player for completing an achievement? 20170817 18:33:18< wesnoth-discord-> I think that kind of rewards are only used in F2P games. They don't fit into Wesnoth at all IMO. 20170817 18:36:05< Elvish_Hunter> I think that too. 20170817 18:41:11< zookeeper> you could grant the player better luck... :> 20170817 18:46:44< wesnoth-discord-> Achievments are nice simply to achieve 20170817 18:49:27< wesnoth-discord-> they don't need to grant anything 20170817 18:49:50< wesnoth-discord-> a lot of times a badge that you can show off for completing a challening achievment is enough 20170817 18:50:03< wesnoth-discord-> though that's predicated on the achievments being interesting 20170817 18:50:22< wesnoth-discord-> some games have achievments for playing the game 20170817 18:50:31< wesnoth-discord-> which is just...weird 20170817 18:51:04< wesnoth-discord-> (and I don't mean games like Wesnoth, I mean games where the linear storyline would inevitbaly make sure you complete a certain achievment) 20170817 18:52:50< wesnoth-discord-> I like that kind of achievements. Because I don't intentionally try to get achievements, the "completed chapter N" kind are usually the only ones I get. 20170817 18:57:22< zookeeper> O.o 20170817 18:58:52< shadowm> zookeeper: I agree, Wesnoth's release compatibility policy is really broken and frustrating. 20170817 19:01:25< wesnoth-discord-> There would be no reasont to rescind an achievment. 20170817 19:01:31< wesnoth-discord-> reason* 20170817 19:01:51< wesnoth-discord-> plus that happens anyway since the laurels are only recorded in a users preference's file 20170817 19:02:11< zookeeper> well it'd be pretty awkward if people had achievements that couldn't actually be gotten anymore with current versions. 20170817 19:02:45< wesnoth-discord-> .....why? 20170817 19:03:47< wesnoth-discord-> Say you had a really hard level. And we had an achievment for it. But later we made that level easier. All that means is the people who have that achievment get to brag that they completed it when it was a lot harder 20170817 19:04:29< zookeeper> the achivement might reference things that actually aren't even in the game, and if the achievements were a steam thing visible to other users, then you'd have people with achievements that new players couldn't actually get, which would be weird. 20170817 19:05:42< wesnoth-discord-> not really? 20170817 19:05:43-!- Soo_Slow [~devnu11@ppp91-122-149-24.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #wesnoth 20170817 19:06:23< shadowm> I'm sure someone will research how other games have done it instead of speculating, if the issue ever becomes relevant. 20170817 19:07:06< shadowm> (Which is to say, probably never, at this rate.) 20170817 19:08:12 * shadowm .oO (if only people took the same cautionary approach to MP moderation as they do to game development) 20170817 19:08:35< wesnoth-discord-> For the record, they are different people... 20170817 19:09:07< shadowm> For the record, there's a key overlap. 20170817 19:09:45< shadowm> Don't forget that it's always been people from the dev team that have been in charge of the various bits and pieces that make up wesnoth.org. 20170817 19:10:55 * zookeeper wonders whether a cautionary approach to MP moderation would be more strict or more lax 20170817 19:11:44< shadowm> The obvious answer is the first one. 20170817 19:11:56< zookeeper> ah. 20170817 19:13:03< wesnoth-discord-> Seriously speaking... the reason why moderation is "less cautionary" is that it can't be discussed in public. That severely limits how many people can give input. (And obviously discussing the decisions in public wouldn't be a good idea either.) 20170817 19:13:58< shadowm> @jyrkive: Nah. I've seen and know stuff that you wouldn't know, and indeed I can't discuss it in public. 20170817 19:14:46< shadowm> But the need to protect people's privacy (a practice that the forum mods are actually much better at) is definitely not the root of the problem. 20170817 19:15:36< wesnoth-discord-> There is more, such as the possibility that someone might attempt to manipulate the decisions with alt accounts. And the latency involved with waiting for input. 20170817 19:24:05-!- Soo_Slow [~devnu11@ppp91-122-149-24.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru] has quit [Quit: Soo_Slow] 20170817 21:26:05-!- SigurdFD [~SigurdFD@dynamic-acs-72-23-110-196.zoominternet.net] has joined #wesnoth 20170817 21:42:19-!- SigurdFD [~SigurdFD@dynamic-acs-72-23-110-196.zoominternet.net] has quit [] 20170817 22:16:20-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170817 22:16:27-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20170817 22:24:06-!- ArneBab_ [~quassel@freenet/developer/arnebab] has joined #wesnoth 20170817 22:26:39-!- ArneBab [~quassel@freenet/developer/arnebab] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20170817 23:22:10< wesnoth-discord-> `Your post "What OS/platform do you p..." is getting more engagement than 80% of your recent posts. Boost it to reach more people in Michigan.` Well, I guess we have fans in Michigan 😛 20170817 23:27:16-!- Bonobo [~Bonobo@203.220.138.162] has joined #wesnoth 20170817 23:46:27-!- edaq [~edaq3@h69-21-227-85.cytnin.broadband.dynamic.tds.net] has joined #wesnoth 20170817 23:52:28-!- gaazkam [~gaazkam@public-gprs361554.centertel.pl] has joined #wesnoth 20170817 23:53:01< gaazkam> My internet connection sucks and I got dc'd from my game - fine, but.. 20170817 23:53:10< gaazkam> I got dc'd in a really fun way 20170817 23:53:39< gaazkam> apparently I wasn't able to see what was going on and from my POV the game stalled 20170817 23:53:43< gaazkam> BUT!- 20170817 23:53:55< gaazkam> others were able to see my messages! 20170817 23:54:49< gaazkam> How is that even possible and isnt' this a but in Wesnoth? 20170817 23:55:27< gaazkam> *bug --- Log closed Fri Aug 18 00:00:17 2017