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The computer falls into a deep sleep, to awake again some other day!] 20170826 05:30:30-!- Kwandulin [~Kwandulin@p200300E453CC3B6F94315CD07A5B7E48.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth 20170826 05:33:30-!- ToBeCloud [uid51591@wikimedia/ToBeFree] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 20170826 05:41:02-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@59.63.248.246] has joined #wesnoth 20170826 05:42:16-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@59.63.248.246] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170826 05:53:32-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@59.63.248.246] has joined #wesnoth 20170826 05:56:15-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@59.63.248.246] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170826 06:04:10-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@59.63.248.246] has joined #wesnoth 20170826 06:04:46-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@59.63.248.246] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170826 06:12:38-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@59.63.248.246] has joined #wesnoth 20170826 06:12:47-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@59.63.248.246] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170826 06:30:31-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@59.63.248.246] has joined #wesnoth 20170826 06:34:46-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@59.63.248.246] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170826 06:39:43-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@59.63.248.246] has joined #wesnoth 20170826 06:39:57-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@59.63.248.246] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170826 06:45:27-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@59.63.248.246] has joined #wesnoth 20170826 06:45:45-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@59.63.248.246] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170826 06:49:34-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@192.130.252.23] has joined #wesnoth 20170826 06:49:39-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@192.130.252.23] has quit [Changing host] 20170826 06:49:39-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth 20170826 06:53:57-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@59.63.248.246] has joined #wesnoth 20170826 06:54:10-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@59.63.248.246] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170826 07:08:16-!- Bonobo [~Bonobo@203.220.138.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20170826 07:09:00-!- Bonobo [~Bonobo@203.220.138.162] has joined #wesnoth 20170826 07:31:01-!- Aginor [~andreas@unaffiliated/aginor] has joined #wesnoth 20170826 07:32:13< Aginor> 20170826 00:02:27< gfgtdf> Aginor: also the part about ^ and ` not working does depend on the keyboard layout, since they are probably not dead characters in us keyboard layout. 20170826 07:32:35< Aginor> they are in the same class as ':' and are poor choises to begin with 20170826 07:33:37< Aginor> especially '`' since it's not naturally occuring as a standalone character in many characters, if I use my native swedish layout I have to type "shift+'," space to get it 20170826 07:42:43< Aginor> as for using wasd for scrolling, I guess you have to look at the key-repeat and deconstruct those events. It's not something I considered 20170826 07:43:04< Aginor> you can of course revert the text input change, it's reasonably self contained 20170826 07:43:23< Aginor> I only did it because people were requesting it :) 20170826 07:50:38-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@183.131.67.205] has joined #wesnoth 20170826 07:51:22-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@183.131.67.205] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170826 08:10:22< vultraz_iOS> Aginor: wrong channel, i think you are in 20170826 08:30:25< Aginor> am too I am 20170826 08:31:07< Aginor> thanks 20170826 09:44:08-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@183.131.67.203] has joined #wesnoth 20170826 09:48:35-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@183.131.67.203] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170826 09:49:15-!- Kranix [~magnus@xd520f683.cust.hiper.dk] has joined #wesnoth 20170826 09:50:47-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@183.131.67.243] has joined #wesnoth 20170826 09:51:06-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@183.131.67.243] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 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[~Kwandulin@p200300E453CC3B65047A3873674F8289.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20170826 19:44:16-!- edaq [~edaq3@h69-21-227-85.cytnin.broadband.dynamic.tds.net] has joined #wesnoth 20170826 20:06:51-!- metronomicon [~metronomi@2a02:587:a28:6200:b817:896b:8df8:97b] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20170826 20:21:29-!- metronomicon [~metronomi@2a02:587:a1b:7d00:1fc8:ae2c:f7cf:8dc9] has joined #wesnoth 20170826 20:28:21-!- mystic_x [~X@unaffiliated/mysticx] has quit [Quit: bye] 20170826 21:11:16-!- celmin|away is now known as celticminstrel 20170826 21:12:46< wesnoth-discord-> Hey, question: How much time does it take to create one campaign in Wesnoth? 20170826 21:14:35< wesnoth-discord-> @Saran it depends on the complexity 20170826 21:14:50< wesnoth-discord-> You could put together a very very basic campaign in 10-20 hours 20170826 21:15:12< wesnoth-discord-> A more complex or polished project might take 10-20 hours per scenario 20170826 21:15:56< wesnoth-discord-> Alright, thanks 20170826 21:16:32 * DeFender1031 started working on a campaign around two years ago... 20170826 21:16:44< DeFender1031> It's still not done. 20170826 21:17:32< aeth> One map can take forever. 20170826 21:17:45< aeth> Just constantly making small adjustments and rebalancing 20170826 21:17:49< wesnoth-discord-> DeFender1031: I picked up TNW in July of 2015 20170826 21:17:57< aeth> Updating maps with new cosmetic terrain each release is a thing, too 20170826 21:18:06< wesnoth-discord-> aeth: ugh yes 20170826 21:18:24< wesnoth-discord-> DeFender1031: I now have 70 commits without adding any scenarios 20170826 21:18:27< DeFender1031> aeth, to be fair, most people don't make the kinds of maps you make. 20170826 21:18:34< DeFender1031> :) 20170826 21:18:56< wesnoth-discord-> The codebase is in much better shape though 😛 20170826 21:19:13< aeth> DeFender1031: To be fair, my 400x200 map was a combination of 6 or so. I wasn't going to start from scratch. 20170826 21:19:30< wesnoth-discord-> aeth: which map is this? 20170826 21:19:43< DeFender1031> aeth, even so, those six were ALREADY huge for wesnoth 20170826 21:19:56< aeth> yeah, true 20170826 21:20:33< aeth> https://github.com/Aethaeryn/wesnoth-umc/blob/master/Aethaeryns_Mod/maps/big-woods.map 20170826 21:20:39< aeth> Temporary name, just an expanded version of woods.map 20170826 21:20:47< aeth> I'll probably use a generated name as the final name 20170826 21:22:16< aeth> The original maps are deep in the repo's history 20170826 21:23:00< wesnoth-discord-> _loads up the map_ 20170826 21:23:51< wesnoth-discord-> aeth: Thursagan's Hammer this is nice 20170826 21:24:20< wesnoth-discord-> Is this your D&D map? 20170826 21:24:31< aeth> It's my RPG map 20170826 21:24:59< aeth> I'm staying away from mentioning anything approaching trademarks. 20170826 21:25:01< DeFender1031> aeth, is that link the 400x200 map or something else? 20170826 21:25:22< wesnoth-discord-> When I say "D&D" I mean in that TTRPG style 20170826 21:25:28< wesnoth-discord-> It's just not actually tabletop 20170826 21:25:56< aeth> DeFender1031: That's the 400x200 map 20170826 21:26:15< aeth> The map itself is essentially complete minus tweaks 20170826 21:26:32< aeth> The associated WML and Lua and unit spawns is probably 2 or 3 months of serious work away 20170826 21:26:49< aeth> I haven't found the time in almost a year, though, because it is tricky 20170826 21:26:52< DeFender1031> Took 30 seconds to load in the editor, but holy crap. I'm amazed all over again every time I see this thing. 20170826 21:26:59< DeFender1031> It's just really gorgeous. 20170826 21:27:20< aeth> That's what 14 years of mapping experience (since I haven't really edited it in a year) does. 20170826 21:27:30< wesnoth-discord-> It's like an ultimate 1.13 stress test map 20170826 21:27:45< aeth> It stresses more in 1.13 because of the water iirc 20170826 21:27:49< wesnoth-discord-> Yes 20170826 21:27:49< DeFender1031> I can't even imagine how long it must have taken to do all this. 20170826 21:28:09< aeth> It's not really timable because I merged all my RPG maps into one 20170826 21:28:12< DeFender1031> I'm currently looking in 1.12 20170826 21:28:18< DeFender1031> I figured 1.13 couldn't handle it :P 20170826 21:28:53< DeFender1031> aeth, well, would it not be the sum total of the time it took to make all of them plus the time it took to merge and tweak the boundaries? 20170826 21:29:10< aeth> That add-on is probably at least 3 months of work to get functional and probably about 6 months of tweaking the Wesnoth engine so it doesn't strain it. 20170826 21:30:03< aeth> If it really doesn't work out with the Wesnoth engine, I'm considering porting the data to a custom engine. 20170826 21:30:12< aeth> That's actually probably less time consuming. 20170826 21:30:25< aeth> It'd mean less unit diversity and worse art, though. 20170826 21:30:45< DeFender1031> aeth, this is more complete than the last time I saw it. IIRC, the last time you showed me this, the bottom-right corner was still mostly solid cave wall. 20170826 21:31:42< aeth> yeah, I turned it into a starting area with teleporters to go to anywhere to start out the game, so that it would be less formulaic 20170826 21:31:53< aeth> Starting in the same part of the map made each game go the same way 20170826 21:32:00< DeFender1031> aeth, perhaps, though on the plus side, it'd mean you could offer tools that are more tailored to your use-case... such as a simple "select and place unit" tool. 20170826 21:32:20< DeFender1031> aeth, also, could you not make your custom engine under the same license and then re-use wesnoth's artwork? 20170826 21:32:33< aeth> Placing units isn't a problem, especially with the group placement tool 20170826 21:32:46< aeth> Changing units' sides is painful, especially when you need to change more than 20 20170826 21:32:57< aeth> each time is a right click menu action 20170826 21:32:57< DeFender1031> I suppose, though the right-click menu is a little less clunky than a simple point-and-click paintbrush tool would be. 20170826 21:33:20-!- amello [~amello@179.159.56.56] has joined #wesnoth 20170826 21:33:21< DeFender1031> well, you could have a side-change paint tool for that too. 20170826 21:33:39< wesnoth-discord-> You could do that in wesnoth too 20170826 21:34:05< DeFender1031> @pydsigner how? there's no way to add custom UI tools to the game. 20170826 21:34:06< wesnoth-discord-> Put a "selected" [object] with an associated overlay 20170826 21:34:39< wesnoth-discord-> You still have to right-click though. 20170826 21:34:45< aeth> DeFender1031: Needing to reuse the art isn't really an issue, though. It wouldn't be much to show a skilled artist what I already have. It's a lot less of a risk for an artist to make art for something that's 90% complete. 20170826 21:34:47< DeFender1031> aeth, yeah, I seem to remember the starting position used to be on the top edge about 1/3 of the way from the left. 20170826 21:35:59< DeFender1031> aeth, true. On the other hand, if you came out with a FOSS tabletop-style-RPG engine which used the wesnoth assets, it could potentially help the wesnoth project as well... 20170826 21:36:00< aeth> I wouldn't be going to an artist saying "look at this game concept", it'd be "look at this near-complete map and near-complete game engine" (since writing a fresh engine would probably be about as hard as reworking the Wesnoth engine to not die in performance on a map like this) 20170826 21:37:15< aeth> A fresh engine could have map layers (so I'd be able to have a whole elaborate cave system under the map, not just to the right), more plausible looking buildings for the city, and a much better UI. 20170826 21:37:33< DeFender1031> legit. 20170826 21:37:54< aeth> I would have to redo the urban areas, though. 20170826 21:38:56< DeFender1031> why's that? 20170826 21:39:21< aeth> Well, the urban areas (and the mountain areas, actually) are a bit of a hack to make them look decent with Wesnoth's limitations. 20170826 21:40:04< aeth> A separate engine would probably have buildings take up at least 4x more area. 20170826 21:40:28< aeth> And there might be elevation instead of hills carefully placed to give the illusion of elevation like in the upper left 20170826 21:41:17-!- Kranix [~magnus@xd520f683.cust.hiper.dk] has joined #wesnoth 20170826 21:41:35< aeth> Even if Wesnoth art were reused, there'd still be work for buildings and castles/walls. 20170826 21:45:35-!- Kranix [~magnus@xd520f683.cust.hiper.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20170826 21:49:17-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20170826 21:49:42-!- vultraz_iOS [uid24821@wesnoth/developer/vultraz] has joined #wesnoth 20170826 22:07:01< DeFender1031> fair 20170826 22:07:39< DeFender1031> aeth, I do hope though that if you go that route, you'll stick around here and keep us updated on progress from time to time 20170826 22:20:22-!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20170826 22:37:00-!- DeFender [~DeFender1@93.172.30.106] has joined #wesnoth 20170826 22:37:01-!- DeFender [~DeFender1@93.172.30.106] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20170826 22:37:20-!- DeFender [~DeFender1@93.172.30.106] has joined #wesnoth 20170826 22:40:24-!- DeFender1031 [~DeFender1@93-172-23-172.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 20170826 22:43:37-!- ToBeCloud [uid51591@wikimedia/ToBeFree] has joined #wesnoth 20170826 23:50:50< wesnoth-discord-> guys I will be off next couple months 20170826 23:51:01< wesnoth-discord-> when 1.14 is on steam tell me 20170826 23:51:08< wesnoth-discord-> bye friends 20170826 23:53:42-!- amello [~amello@179.159.56.56] has quit [Quit: Leaving] --- Log closed Sun Aug 27 00:00:29 2017