--- Log opened Sun Aug 27 00:00:29 2017 20170827 00:46:14-!- edaq [~edaq3@h69-21-227-85.cytnin.broadband.dynamic.tds.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20170827 00:46:20-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@59.63.248.246] has joined #wesnoth 20170827 00:46:24-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@59.63.248.246] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170827 00:48:59-!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #wesnoth 20170827 00:52:49-!- ToBeCloud [uid51591@wikimedia/ToBeFree] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 20170827 01:06:52-!- Appleman1234 [~quassel@124x38x163x22.ap124.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20170827 01:11:16-!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20170827 01:29:00-!- Bonobo [~Bonobo@203.220.138.162] has joined #wesnoth 20170827 01:32:31-!- Appleman1234 [~quassel@124x38x163x22.ap124.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #wesnoth 20170827 02:03:03-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@59.63.248.246] has joined #wesnoth 20170827 02:03:10-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@59.63.248.246] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170827 02:07:46-!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #wesnoth 20170827 02:24:11-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@59.63.248.246] has joined #wesnoth 20170827 02:24:14-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@59.63.248.246] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170827 02:25:28-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@59.63.248.246] has joined #wesnoth 20170827 02:25:29-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@59.63.248.246] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20170827 02:35:23-!- synthpopisback [~synthpopi@2606:a000:7947:5000:d18f:2afe:bcce:6577] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20170827 02:41:01-!- synthpopisback [~synthpopi@2606:a000:7947:5000:cd9c:c2be:c4d6:a308] has joined #wesnoth 20170827 02:48:05-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has quit [Quit: So long and thanks for all the fish.] 20170827 02:50:06-!- ArneBab [~quassel@freenet/developer/arnebab] has joined #wesnoth 20170827 02:54:05-!- ArneBab_ [~quassel@freenet/developer/arnebab] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20170827 02:57:45-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@59.63.248.246] has joined #wesnoth 20170827 02:57:52-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@59.63.248.246] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170827 03:00:35-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@59.63.248.246] has joined #wesnoth 20170827 03:00:36-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@59.63.248.246] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20170827 03:01:54< aeth> I found a video of the "best" map design on Steam. https://youtu.be/qXBTyagYnNU?t=55s 20170827 03:02:06< aeth> Just a small patch of flat terrain with a rock in the middle. That puts my map to shame. 20170827 03:10:49-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@59.63.248.246] has joined #wesnoth 20170827 03:12:40-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@59.63.248.246] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170827 03:40:29-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@59.63.248.246] has joined #wesnoth 20170827 03:40:37-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@59.63.248.246] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170827 03:51:54-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@59.63.248.246] has joined #wesnoth 20170827 03:53:00-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@59.63.248.246] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170827 04:29:04-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170827 04:29:11-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20170827 05:20:12-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170827 05:20:18-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20170827 05:38:57-!- Kwandulin [~Kwandulin@p200300E453CC3B65047A3873674F8289.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth 20170827 05:42:00-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth 20170827 05:55:52-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has quit [Quit: And lo! The computer falls into a deep sleep, to awake again some other day!] 20170827 07:42:16< wesnoth-discord-> hey, just joined this channel and wanted to ask: when will 1.14 version come out? 20170827 07:42:43< wesnoth-discord-> The only answer we can give is that 1.14 is done when it's done. 20170827 07:43:08< wesnoth-discord-> That said, we're hoping we'd get it out during this year. 20170827 07:44:47< wesnoth-discord-> Thanks. Shall we expect big changes? (BTW it's bad that only few ppl- including me- are playing 1.13.8 version :/ ) 20170827 07:45:08< wesnoth-discord-> Relative to 1.13, not much. 20170827 07:46:13< wesnoth-discord-> Relative to 1.12, there are quite big changes, although many of them are under-the-hood. For example use of SDL2 instead of SDL1, and the fact that many UI dialogs have been ported to a newer GUI framework (and somewhat redesigned in the process). 20170827 07:47:39< wesnoth-discord-> Wow that is comprehensive answer 😄 many thanks 20170827 08:19:50-!- moongazer [~moongazer@117.198.83.62] has joined #wesnoth 20170827 09:02:34-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170827 09:02:40-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20170827 09:12:02-!- lipkab [~the_new_l@host-91-147-210-58.biatv.hu] has joined #wesnoth 20170827 09:27:34-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170827 09:27:41-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20170827 09:31:16-!- moongazer [~moongazer@117.198.83.62] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20170827 09:36:23-!- moongazer [~moongazer@117.198.89.160] has joined #wesnoth 20170827 09:39:59-!- universecoder [~moongazer@117.198.89.26] has joined #wesnoth 20170827 09:42:46-!- moongazer [~moongazer@117.198.89.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20170827 10:14:46-!- universecoder [~moongazer@117.198.89.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20170827 10:27:13-!- universecoder [~moongazer@1.187.8.162] has joined #wesnoth 20170827 10:40:04-!- Kwandulin [~Kwandulin@p200300E453CC3B65047A3873674F8289.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20170827 10:55:07-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has joined #wesnoth 20170827 10:56:21-!- universecoder [~moongazer@1.187.8.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20170827 11:11:11-!- mystic_x [~X@unaffiliated/mysticx] has joined #wesnoth 20170827 11:20:37-!- lipkab [~the_new_l@host-91-147-210-58.biatv.hu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170827 11:32:34-!- Kwandulin [~Kwandulin@p200300E453CC3B655C8A79BD01C5B106.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth 20170827 13:01:34-!- Kwandulin [~Kwandulin@p200300E453CC3B655C8A79BD01C5B106.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20170827 13:07:45-!- amello [~amello@179.159.56.56] has joined #wesnoth 20170827 13:21:19-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has joined #wesnoth 20170827 14:10:54-!- moongazer [~moongazer@59.95.139.81] has joined #wesnoth 20170827 14:13:01-!- vultraz_iOS [uid24821@wesnoth/developer/vultraz] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 20170827 14:28:56-!- Kranix [~magnus@x1-6-f4-6b-ef-d1-1f-e3.cpe.webspeed.dk] has joined #wesnoth 20170827 14:29:55-!- Kwandulin [~Kwandulin@p200300E453CC3B655C8A79BD01C5B106.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth 20170827 15:02:17-!- edaq [~edaq3@h69-21-227-85.cytnin.broadband.dynamic.tds.net] has joined #wesnoth 20170827 15:21:27< wesnoth-discord-> umm guys 20170827 15:21:57< wesnoth-discord-> I know there is off-topic but i need help to undestand something 20170827 15:22:11< wesnoth-discord-> Have you heard about AdNauseam? 20170827 15:29:45< wesnoth-discord-> the add-on? 20170827 15:30:30< wesnoth-discord-> yes 20170827 15:30:49< wesnoth-discord-> some people are acting like it does something meaninfull 20170827 15:31:08< wesnoth-discord-> but to me it sounds like "Distributed clickfraud, disguised as a privacy service." 20170827 15:39:05< wesnoth-discord-> I don't know much about clickfraud. It seems a bit spiteful rather than just using a regular adblocker though. 20170827 15:44:15< wesnoth-discord-> ikr, i've been reading reddit threads about it. I can't find a reason to use it over Ublock 20170827 15:46:11-!- Kwandulin [~Kwandulin@p200300E453CC3B655C8A79BD01C5B106.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20170827 15:46:16< wesnoth-discord-> I'm using uBlock Origin mainly to protect myself from malvertising (distributing malware through ads). AdNauseam would completely defeat that. 20170827 15:49:19< wesnoth-discord-> yup, same here. 20170827 15:50:02-!- Kwandulin [~Kwandulin@p200300E453CC3B655C8A79BD01C5B106.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth 20170827 16:07:16-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20170827 16:22:55-!- Bonobo [~Bonobo@203.220.138.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20170827 16:32:52-!- Kwandulin [~Kwandulin@p200300E453CC3B655C8A79BD01C5B106.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20170827 17:00:35< aeth> For me, I use uBlock Origin for performance and to block autoplaying audio ads which otherwise reputable sites sometimes have (e.g. FiveThirtyEight does, at least on mobile). 20170827 17:18:05-!- amello [~amello@179.159.56.56] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170827 17:32:38-!- Kwandulin [~Kwandulin@p200300E453CC3B65C5310E33A8DCFA13.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth 20170827 17:43:15-!- mystic_x [~X@unaffiliated/mysticx] has quit [Quit: bye] 20170827 18:38:16-!- moongazer [~moongazer@59.95.139.81] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20170827 18:48:50-!- Kwandulin [~Kwandulin@p200300E453CC3B65C5310E33A8DCFA13.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20170827 19:42:03-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has joined #wesnoth 20170827 19:51:13-!- Kranix [~magnus@x1-6-f4-6b-ef-d1-1f-e3.cpe.webspeed.dk] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 20170827 20:07:12< wesnoth-discord-> any updates as far as getting wesnoth on steam? 20170827 20:09:29< wesnoth-discord-> The latest update is from July, when it turned out that getting performance to an acceptable level doesn't require hardware rendering unlike we had feared (and therefore getting Wesnoth 1.14 out shouldn't take *that* long). 20170827 20:09:35< wesnoth-discord-> No updates since then. 20170827 20:10:11< wesnoth-discord-> Fantastic! And you're waiting for 1.14 to upload it to steam I assume? 20170827 20:10:13< wesnoth-discord-> 1.13.9 is still due for release Real Soon Now™ 20170827 20:10:22< wesnoth-discord-> Yes. 20170827 20:10:33< wesnoth-discord-> Yes, 1.14 is the first version we plan to release in Steam. 20170827 20:10:42< wesnoth-discord-> Thanks very much for the quick replies (Y) 20170827 20:17:20< wesnoth-discord-> @jyrkive Did you guys manage to bring CPU usage down to 1.12 levels as well? 20170827 20:19:16< wesnoth-discord-> No, it's even higher than before. 20170827 20:19:42< wesnoth-discord-> But I think it's acceptable. High CPU usage is a much smaller problem than stuttering. 20170827 20:20:10< wesnoth-discord-> Yeah, it's a small problem if you are not using a computer that's in direct contact with your body. 20170827 20:20:18< wesnoth-discord-> Otherwise, RIP laptops. 20170827 20:20:47< wesnoth-discord-> Well, disabling water animations helps. 20170827 20:28:39< Polsaker> what caused cpu usage to rise apart from water animations? 20170827 20:30:59< wesnoth-discord-> We haven't investigated that. But the most likely possibility is that SDL 2 is just less optimized for software rendering. 20170827 20:31:32< wesnoth-discord-> And my fix for the performance issues was essentially just telling the engine to hold back less and utilize more CPU power... 20170827 20:31:34< zookeeper> we can always bring back the old water if the new one is just too costly :p 20170827 20:32:05< wesnoth-discord-> Testing if it's the animation itself causing the issue would be an obvious first step. 20170827 20:35:21< aeth> The water butchers the performance on large maps with water, like mine, although my maps are an exception (especially the very large one) 20170827 20:36:00< wesnoth-discord-> The point is that even in 1.12 water wasn't that much of an issue. 20170827 20:36:38< wesnoth-discord-> It'd be a pity if most laptop users ended up turning off water animations. 20170827 20:49:11-!- vultraz_iOS [uid24821@wesnoth/developer/vultraz] has joined #wesnoth 20170827 21:39:18< zookeeper> there's two main aspects to how the new water is more costly than the old: 1) there's a lot more frames/images so the initial caching presumably takes longer, and 2) the frame durations are shorter (100ms as opposed to 150ms) 20170827 21:41:01< zookeeper> (of course, the latter is tweakable) 20170827 22:12:23< zookeeper> anyway, point being that if you only consider the rendering slowness and ignore caching slowness, and bump the frame durations to the same old 150ms, it shouldn't really be slower than the old water. unless i'm missing something. 20170827 22:14:25< aeth> Well, I think the solution would be to just make a 200x200 map of water (perhaps with some coasts, if that affects something) and benchmark 20170827 22:14:49< zookeeper> sure 20170827 22:16:00< zookeeper> i don't think the size should matter, though, since AFAIK there's no animation stuff run for hexes out of view 20170827 22:16:51-!- amello [~amello@179.159.56.56] has joined #wesnoth 20170827 22:30:09< zookeeper> aeth, anyway, if you want i could try to come up with some WML changes you could try out, maybe that way it'd become more clear what exactly it is about the water that's so much slower. 20170827 22:30:45< aeth> I haven't recompiled the dev branch in months so it might take me too long to do quick tests 20170827 22:30:46< zookeeper> my system can run things sufficiently smoothly now that it's a bit hard to do it myself 20170827 22:31:27< zookeeper> oh, okay. you should definitely try current master since it has those tweaks jyrkive did. 20170827 22:32:41< aeth> oh, if you want it on a weaker system, that'd add more time because I'd have to move the binary over to my laptop 20170827 22:33:37< zookeeper> well, any system on which "butchers performance" is a fitting description 20170827 22:34:54< zookeeper> but as said i was suggesting WML tweaks only. of course you'd still need a current build for that, though. 20170827 22:34:58< zookeeper> anyway, i'm off to bed -> 20170827 22:35:42< aeth> My desktop's an i7-4790k, so it's not going to notice performance issues on single-threaded programs... At least, not for the next few years. 20170827 22:36:17< aeth> My laptop definitely will have issues with things. 20170827 22:39:05-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20170827 22:55:46< wesnoth-discord-> The CPU usage is completely independent of performance in this case. 20170827 22:57:03< wesnoth-discord-> You can have the fastest game loop ever taking up 100% CPU time and you wouldn't be able to tell until your laptop caught on fire. 20170827 22:57:42< wesnoth-discord-> (Or realized that it's starving other running tasks.) 20170827 23:02:03< wesnoth-discord-> In general, it'd be great if people strove for lower resource usage wherever possible, especially when it comes to CPU time (which translates to greater power draw, which translates to heat output that can deteriorate your hardware over time, and also bigger numbers on your electricity billl, and increased strain on power lines, and...). 20170827 23:02:48< celticminstrel> What was the CPU usage like after changing the frame rate limiter? 20170827 23:03:08< wesnoth-discord-> I didn't check but no-one appears to believe it's improved. 20170827 23:03:41< wesnoth-discord-> Performance did but according to jyrkive himself, "it's even higher than before". 20170827 23:03:53< wesnoth-discord-> (CPU usage is, that is.) 20170827 23:04:38< wesnoth-discord-> My impression is that, in this case, "performance" means how the game appears to perform (less stuttering, etc), and not so much that its actually using less CPU resources. 20170827 23:04:57< wesnoth-discord-> That's the only thing it can mean in this case. 20170827 23:05:02< wesnoth-discord-> kind of the opposite, actually, as far as CPU usage goes 20170827 23:05:18< wesnoth-discord-> Not really because your CPU is a dumb machine that doesn't care either way. 20170827 23:05:45< wesnoth-discord-> It's perfectly okay with doing a massive number of unneeded operations per second instead of taking some time to rest, as long as it is within its specifications. 20170827 23:06:38< wesnoth-discord-> I.e. as long as it doesn't reach its thermal limit. 20170827 23:08:28< wesnoth-discord-> well yeah, the CPU does what it's told to do 20170827 23:34:15< wesnoth-discord-> Unrelated question: Would it be possible for a bot to observe multiple games at the same time? 20170827 23:41:58< wesnoth-discord-> yes, but I think there is limit of 5 connections per IP 20170827 23:44:03< wesnoth-discord-> with a single connection, i meant. 20170827 23:59:51< wesnoth-discord-> Have you ever encountered hackers in wesnoth? --- Log closed Mon Aug 28 00:00:30 2017