--- Log opened Fri Sep 01 00:00:35 2017 20170901 00:53:42-!- ToBeCloud [uid51591@wikimedia/ToBeFree] has joined #wesnoth 20170901 01:04:50-!- vultraz_iOS [uid24821@wesnoth/developer/vultraz] has joined #wesnoth 20170901 01:05:10< wesnoth-discord-> With the launch of steam, is there any plans for revenue production? (IE Skins, premium, membership, cosmetics, etc)? I don't know anything about Wesnoth's current business model ( if any), but I'm sure a lot of fans would love to give $upport to you guys. As long as its not p2w or anything 20170901 01:05:29< wesnoth-discord-> Wesnoth will remain free for PC as it's always been. 20170901 01:05:59< wesnoth-discord-> How are the servers maintained? 20170901 01:06:14< wesnoth-discord-> Sales from the Apple app store version for iOS. 20170901 01:08:01< wesnoth-discord-> Ah interesting! Not that im encouraging adding any transactions in the actual game (pls no, I love open source projects), but plans on a patreon or something of similar fashion? Completely optional donations, etc 20170901 01:09:36< wesnoth-discord-> There was a mention of a patreon at one point, but that seems to have fallen by the wayside. 20170901 01:11:23< wesnoth-discord-> I think it would be a nice way of us players that don't have the creative abilities to create maps or coding experience to help in the development to give back to the game. Dwarf Fortress has a patreon page and it's been overall a positive thing to the community and I'm sure to Bay 12 games. πŸ˜ƒ 20170901 01:25:27-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has joined #wesnoth 20170901 01:33:52< celticminstrel> Pretty sure making Wesnoth pay-to-win would be an incredibly difficult exercise. :P 20170901 01:36:27< aeth> pay to upgrade normal to marksman, marksman to magical, magical to always-90% 20170901 01:36:42< aeth> but make that upgrade a limited use item that wears off 20170901 01:36:48< janebot> wesnoth: Come Join the Official Wesnoth Discord! (by /u/Bugseo) https://redd.it/6xbeks 20170901 01:36:58< aeth> pay to win is easy 20170901 01:42:37< celticminstrel> That's all easy to describe, but implementing it is probably not as easy as you'd thinkg. 20170901 01:42:44< celticminstrel> ^-g 20170901 01:45:23-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@183.131.67.203] has joined #wesnoth 20170901 01:45:24-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@183.131.67.203] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170901 01:51:35-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@183.131.67.243] has joined #wesnoth 20170901 01:51:38-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@183.131.67.243] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170901 01:55:09-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@183.131.67.247] has joined #wesnoth 20170901 01:55:38-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@183.131.67.247] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170901 02:07:20-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@183.131.67.243] has joined #wesnoth 20170901 02:09:17-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@183.131.67.243] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170901 02:11:04-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@183.131.67.203] has joined #wesnoth 20170901 02:12:11-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@183.131.67.203] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170901 02:14:54-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@183.131.67.205] has joined #wesnoth 20170901 02:15:02-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@183.131.67.205] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170901 02:19:59-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@183.131.67.243] has joined #wesnoth 20170901 02:23:06-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@183.131.67.243] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170901 02:25:53-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@183.131.67.203] has joined #wesnoth 20170901 02:27:41< aeth> celticminstrel: You'd need to associate items with an account. Then you'd have to add a right click menu item to attach an item to a unit. That item will have limited uses. Perhaps it's easiest just to add it for the rest of the scenario and then consume it. Items would have to be linked to the account system. 20170901 02:28:01< aeth> Not trivial, but if it's the primary way for a game to profit (and it shouldn't be), it would be doable. 20170901 02:28:10-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@183.131.67.203] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170901 02:28:23< aeth> Editing save files is one way around this (but not for most MP), but most people wouldn't bother. 20170901 02:29:17< aeth> Actually, the most KISS way to do it is consuming it at the moment of attaching. In campaigns, there's a good enough chance for units to die that it won't be an issue. 20170901 02:29:59-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@183.131.67.203] has joined #wesnoth 20170901 02:30:57-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@183.131.67.203] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170901 02:33:21-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has quit [Quit: And lo! The computer falls into a deep sleep, to awake again some other day!] 20170901 02:35:45-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has joined #wesnoth 20170901 02:44:08-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@183.131.67.203] has joined #wesnoth 20170901 02:44:33-!- ArneBab_ [~quassel@freenet/developer/arnebab] has joined #wesnoth 20170901 02:44:40-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@183.131.67.203] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170901 02:45:42-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@183.131.67.203] has joined #wesnoth 20170901 02:47:33-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@183.131.67.203] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170901 02:48:21-!- ArneBab [~quassel@freenet/developer/arnebab] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20170901 02:51:11-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@183.131.67.243] has joined #wesnoth 20170901 02:51:31-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@183.131.67.243] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170901 02:55:21-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@183.131.67.207] has joined #wesnoth 20170901 02:55:33-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@183.131.67.207] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170901 02:56:43-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has quit [Quit: And lo! The computer falls into a deep sleep, to awake again some other day!] 20170901 02:58:35-!- Kwandulin [~Kwandulin@p200300E453CC3BA7014A9641E2C1E4D5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth 20170901 03:02:13-!- dwadaw [470c137c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.12.19.124] has joined #wesnoth 20170901 03:03:02-!- ToBeCloud [uid51591@wikimedia/ToBeFree] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 20170901 03:03:32-!- dwadaw [470c137c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.12.19.124] has quit [Client Quit] 20170901 03:26:32-!- Kwandulin [~Kwandulin@p200300E453CC3BA7014A9641E2C1E4D5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: [endlevel]] 20170901 03:30:10< Ipsilon> ugh, there is even a bot that tells usrs to go to discord 20170901 03:35:57< DeFender> WHat? 20170901 03:36:55< Ipsilon> 18:36 wesnoth: Come Join the Official Wesnoth Discord! (by /u/Bugseo) https://redd.it/6xbeks 20170901 03:44:07< DeFender> Nah, that's just the reddit bot, someone is posting on reddit telling peope to join discord and the post is being announced here. 20170901 03:46:05< aeth> I said what I wanted to say about Discord, I won't comment on it again. 20170901 03:52:08< Ipsilon> it's shit and just makes the irc dirty as fuck. Also, curious choice for an OSS game. But w/e, I don't get deflated by stupid choices. 20170901 03:52:15< Ipsilon> thnx for the info though DeFender. 20170901 03:53:28< DeFender> sure 20170901 03:57:51-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@183.131.67.243] has joined #wesnoth 20170901 03:59:06-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@183.131.67.243] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170901 04:01:41-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@183.131.67.205] has joined #wesnoth 20170901 04:04:15-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@183.131.67.205] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170901 04:04:51-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@183.131.67.243] has joined #wesnoth 20170901 04:05:11-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@183.131.67.243] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170901 04:07:53-!- AndroUser [~androirc@71-12-19-124.dhcp.spbg.sc.charter.com] has joined #wesnoth 20170901 04:08:02-!- AndroUser [~androirc@71-12-19-124.dhcp.spbg.sc.charter.com] has quit [Client Quit] 20170901 04:10:06-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@183.131.67.247] has joined #wesnoth 20170901 04:10:38-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@183.131.67.247] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170901 04:10:47-!- AndroUser [~androirc@71-12-19-124.dhcp.spbg.sc.charter.com] has joined #wesnoth 20170901 04:11:47-!- AndroUser [~androirc@71-12-19-124.dhcp.spbg.sc.charter.com] has quit [Client Quit] 20170901 04:12:38-!- AndroUser [~androirc@71-12-19-124.dhcp.spbg.sc.charter.com] has joined #wesnoth 20170901 04:13:01-!- AndroUser [~androirc@71-12-19-124.dhcp.spbg.sc.charter.com] has quit [Client Quit] 20170901 04:13:42-!- AndroUser [~androirc@71-12-19-124.dhcp.spbg.sc.charter.com] has joined #wesnoth 20170901 04:14:20-!- AndroUser [~androirc@71-12-19-124.dhcp.spbg.sc.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170901 04:14:52-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@183.131.67.203] has joined #wesnoth 20170901 04:15:02-!- AndroUser [~androirc@71-12-19-124.dhcp.spbg.sc.charter.com] has joined #wesnoth 20170901 04:16:12-!- AndroUser [~androirc@71-12-19-124.dhcp.spbg.sc.charter.com] has quit [Client Quit] 20170901 04:16:30-!- Bugseeo [~Bugseeo@71-12-19-124.dhcp.spbg.sc.charter.com] has joined #wesnoth 20170901 04:18:10< Bugseeo> what's the dispute about discord? 20170901 04:20:00-!- Bugseeo [~Bugseeo@71-12-19-124.dhcp.spbg.sc.charter.com] has quit [Client Quit] 20170901 04:20:15-!- Bugseeo [~Bugseeo@71-12-19-124.dhcp.spbg.sc.charter.com] has joined #wesnoth 20170901 04:22:04< wesnoth-discord-> Fundamentalism. 20170901 04:23:22-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@183.131.67.203] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170901 04:24:15< Bugseeo> Hmmm? 20170901 04:34:26< aeth> Anti-Discord people lay out good arguments, Discord people reply "omg don't be a Richard Stallman free software zealot and get with the progress of modern software", thus creating an even deeper hatred of Discord. 20170901 04:34:54< aeth> This is seriously going to delay any multiplayer game I make by months because now I have to make sure I have solid voice chat to discourage third party voice chat software. 20170901 04:35:21< wesnoth-discord-> I think only Vultraz uses that "get with the progress" argument... 20170901 04:52:21-!- Bugseeo [~Bugseeo@71-12-19-124.dhcp.spbg.sc.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170901 05:00:56< galego> Discord probably locks in. Free software ought not to. 20170901 05:06:28< aeth> I don't think you can save logs from Discord, so the cloud logging feature is a lockin. 20170901 05:16:14< wesnoth-discord-> Who cares about your games. 20170901 05:16:26< wesnoth-discord-> You couldn't come up with a more self-centered statement on the matter if you tried. 20170901 05:24:36< wesnoth-discord-> What the hell 20170901 05:36:30-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@183.131.67.203] has joined #wesnoth 20170901 05:42:33-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@183.131.67.203] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170901 05:45:11-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@103.221.141.158] has joined #wesnoth 20170901 05:45:14-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@103.221.141.158] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170901 05:48:35< aeth> shadowm, you're one of the main reasons that I'm seriously considering taking about two years of work, one of the largest and most elaborate Wesnoth maps period, and porting it to a standalone engine. 20170901 05:49:09< aeth> Getting it to work smoothly on the Wesnoth engine would require me to make a large series of patches, so it would not really save much time or effort. 20170901 05:50:01-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@183.131.67.247] has joined #wesnoth 20170901 05:50:19-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@183.131.67.247] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170901 05:50:22< aeth> And I'm not even sure that's an option if I'm going to continually get in personality conflicts with you and vultraz, but especially you, apparently. You just don't like me. 20170901 06:00:17< aeth> Lots of people love the content that I've made for Wesnoth, and want me to keep developing it and updating it for new versions, but it's buggy and incomplete without engine patches, and I'm not attempting to do engine patches if the impression I get from key figures, like, you know, the wesnoth.org administrator, is that they don't like me. Because in the end, it's the opinion of the people in power that matters, not everyone else's. 20170901 06:00:27-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@183.131.67.243] has joined #wesnoth 20170901 06:02:33< aeth> I'm not going to spend a year or more on digging through the engine just to have patches necessary for my add-ons rejected for reasons unrelated to the code. 20170901 06:03:34-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@183.131.67.243] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170901 06:07:16-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@183.131.67.247] has joined #wesnoth 20170901 06:08:48-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@183.131.67.247] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170901 06:09:52-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@183.131.67.247] has joined #wesnoth 20170901 06:10:39-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@183.131.67.247] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170901 06:15:06-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@183.131.67.247] has joined #wesnoth 20170901 06:15:32-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@183.131.67.247] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170901 06:16:16< wesnoth-discord-> Found this after a few minutes of googling: https://discordjs.readthedocs.io/en/latest/docs_client.html#getchannellogs-channel-limit-options-callback so it seems like it's not actually impossible to get channel logs. Plus, we already have a bot sending everything from Discord's side over to IRC, so I can't imagine it would be hugely difficult to send it to a file as well/instead. 20170901 06:22:35< wesnoth-discord-> aeth: You're implying that we would reject your patches because we don't like you. You seem to have a really low impression on us. 20170901 06:23:52< wesnoth-discord-> And, honestly, the way you write in this discussion is quite annoying and definitely doesn't make us like you more. 20170901 06:23:56-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@183.131.67.247] has joined #wesnoth 20170901 06:24:05< aeth> shadowm has been very mean to me, going back a very long time 20170901 06:24:36-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@183.131.67.247] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170901 06:24:50< wesnoth-discord-> I don't think it goes to the extent of rejecting patches. Not to mention that shadowm isn't even an active developer any more. 20170901 06:25:06-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@183.131.67.243] has joined #wesnoth 20170901 06:25:34-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@183.131.67.243] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170901 06:42:28< wesnoth-discord-> aeth: Patches to improve the performance of Wesnoth's engine would be pretty welcome, I'd imagine, especially given the recent focus on performance in 1.13. But if your patches would require significant changes to the engine that wouldn't benefit anyone else much outside of your specific scenario, I could see that as being a reason to reject them. I'm not a dev, and I don't know what the history here is or what sort of 20170901 06:42:28< wesnoth-discord-> changes you'd need, but regardless it'd be disappointing to see good code rejected for personal reasons. 20170901 06:44:44< aeth> The primary problem is that what I made consumes a considerable amount of CPU. The solution to that would require profiling. 20170901 06:45:29< wesnoth-discord-> As always, in performance optimization 90% of the work is figuring out *what* is slow to begin with. 20170901 06:50:48< aeth> Exactly. I am not sure there's anything else I can say about it. A large part of the work is finding out what needs to be worked around inside the add-on, what needs to be patched, and what can be tolerated. 20170901 06:52:33< wesnoth-discord-> As an engine developer: I strongly prefer optimizing the engine instead of addon specific workarounds. If something *can* be fast, it should. 20170901 06:52:52< aeth> I'm not sure if large unit counts and large maps count as specific to my scenario. 20170901 06:53:59< aeth> The map is 400x200 (technically larger than the editor supports unless you edit the file by hand first iirc, but after that the editor handles it okay) and the unit count is over a thousand, which only makes sense in RPGs (although I am not the only one making those kinds of scenarios) 20170901 06:54:54< wesnoth-discord-> A good example was DeFender's unreleased campaign that heavily used an incrementally changing storyscreen.. I made that dozens of times faster in the engine side. πŸ˜ƒ 20170901 06:55:29< aeth> There's a chance that it's neither the unit count nor the map size (nor the combination of the two). 20170901 06:55:54< aeth> I will have to set up test cases when I have the time to see the smallest thing that gets my CPU running at 50%-80% 20170901 06:56:17< aeth> It could even be a Lua API thing. 20170901 06:56:18< wesnoth-discord-> Well, map size and unit count both sound like very likely possibilities. There may not even be any low-hanging fruits here.. 20170901 07:04:36-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@183.131.67.243] has joined #wesnoth 20170901 07:04:50< wesnoth-discord-> If you do decide to try to improve the Wesnoth engine, probably the single best thing that could be done to help this get accepted would be to create a github issue/PR about it, and keep it up to date with what you find and what potential solutions are. You're definitely not the only one who'd like to see this improved πŸ˜ƒ 20170901 07:05:46-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@183.131.67.243] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170901 07:10:15< Ipsilon> lel, "Fundamentalism". http://mostons.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Ostrich-head-in-sand.jpg 20170901 07:10:57< wesnoth-discord-> Discord saved me a click by showing the pic inline. πŸ˜› 20170901 07:11:27< Ipsilon> lel, noice 20170901 07:11:58< Ipsilon> I wouldn't have an objection to discord, were it not for the fact that it is garbage. Specifically to this channel, it makes it unreadable. 20170901 07:12:32< Ipsilon> But it's not like I have an investment on this community, so Β―\(Β°β—‘οΎŸ)/Β― 20170901 07:15:34< wesnoth-discord-> Stay in IRC, then. You can participate in the discussion thanks to the bridge bots. 20170901 07:16:12< Ipsilon> lel, putting up with this? https://ptpb.pw/AHZU9TrVlEm5byGAacwOToxOT_ZB.png 20170901 07:16:13< wesnoth-discord-> And that's how it should be, IMO. Have discussion both in IRC and in Discord, connect them with bots, and allow people to choose whichever they prefer (or use both, like I do). 20170901 07:16:25< Ipsilon> not sure what it looks like in discord 20170901 07:16:37< Ipsilon> but I would never contribute to a channel that is so f-ing unreadable. 20170901 07:16:51< Ipsilon> matrix does this much more elegantly 20170901 07:17:11< wesnoth-discord-> please keep flames serialized instead of parallel in order to keep the main channel flamed 20170901 07:17:19< wesnoth-discord-> I think long messages getting an extra line break is hardly "unreadable". 20170901 07:17:41< Ipsilon> the syntax makes it unreadable. the fact that the usernames are in the message itself 20170901 07:17:55< wesnoth-discord-> Discord: https://i.imgur.com/rj0BKOS.png 20170901 07:17:57< Ipsilon> and I don't need to have it break lines for me 20170901 07:18:06< Ipsilon> oh god 20170901 07:18:10< Ipsilon> RIP 20170901 07:29:04-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth 20170901 07:31:14< wesnoth-discord-> Heyyy it is my favourite game as a kid 20170901 07:34:02-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@183.131.67.243] has joined #wesnoth 20170901 07:34:21-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@183.131.67.243] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170901 07:39:20< wesnoth-discord-> welcome back then πŸ˜ƒ 20170901 07:56:00-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@103.221.141.158] has joined #wesnoth 20170901 07:56:34-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@103.221.141.158] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170901 08:03:07-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@183.131.67.205] has joined #wesnoth 20170901 08:03:09-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@183.131.67.205] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170901 08:06:05-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@103.221.141.158] has joined #wesnoth 20170901 08:06:29-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@103.221.141.158] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170901 08:10:00-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@103.221.141.158] has joined #wesnoth 20170901 08:10:28-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@103.221.141.158] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170901 08:17:52-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@153.35.48.102] has joined #wesnoth 20170901 08:22:19-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@153.35.48.102] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170901 08:36:39-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@103.221.141.158] has joined #wesnoth 20170901 08:37:57< wesnoth-discord-> c: 20170901 08:38:53-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@103.221.141.158] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170901 08:40:04-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@103.221.141.158] has joined #wesnoth 20170901 08:43:44-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@103.221.141.158] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170901 08:47:52-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@183.131.67.205] has joined #wesnoth 20170901 08:48:14-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@183.131.67.205] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170901 08:51:05-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@103.221.141.158] has joined #wesnoth 20170901 08:51:09-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@103.221.141.158] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170901 08:54:55-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@103.221.141.158] has joined #wesnoth 20170901 08:57:59-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@103.221.141.158] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170901 09:00:20-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@103.221.141.158] has joined #wesnoth 20170901 09:05:22-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@103.221.141.158] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170901 09:10:02-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@183.240.25.166] has joined #wesnoth 20170901 09:11:07-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@183.240.25.166] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170901 09:47:00-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has joined #wesnoth 20170901 10:52:25< wesnoth-discord-> indeed, welcome back πŸ˜ƒ 20170901 11:27:46-!- Kranix [~magnus@xd520f683.cust.hiper.dk] has joined #wesnoth 20170901 11:44:16-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170901 11:44:23-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20170901 11:49:47< wesnoth-discord-> Are there any well done campaigns that have been made this year? 20170901 11:57:39-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@183.240.25.165] has joined #wesnoth 20170901 11:58:18-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@183.240.25.165] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170901 12:02:56-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@103.221.141.157] has joined #wesnoth 20170901 12:03:30-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@103.221.141.157] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170901 12:03:55< wesnoth-discord-> this year specifically? 20170901 12:07:22-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@103.221.141.157] has joined #wesnoth 20170901 12:07:59-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@103.221.141.157] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170901 12:08:34-!- Bugseeo [~Bugseeo@71-12-19-124.dhcp.spbg.sc.charter.com] has joined #wesnoth 20170901 12:13:22-!- Kwandulin [~Kwandulin@p200300E453CC3BA7014A9641E2C1E4D5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth 20170901 12:29:38< wesnoth-discord-> oh man you just reminded me of when i first started playing wesnoth 20170901 12:32:29< wesnoth-discord-> back when Konrad looked like an anime character, undead were op(maybe it's just my memory but i recall undead taking 2-3 damage from everything but mages) and i thought Kalenz was the coolest video game character ever 20170901 12:33:56< wesnoth-discord-> heh, yeah the old Konrad was pretty anime 20170901 12:35:37< wesnoth-discord-> oh and for some weird reason(don't judge me i was a kid)i thought Delfador was like Gandalf's grandson or something 20170901 12:36:30< wesnoth-discord-> Undead still seem considerably OP 20170901 12:36:56< wesnoth-discord-> Last year I went through Wesnoth campaigns, I loved Northern Rebirth 20170901 12:37:14< wesnoth-discord-> yeah but in the meanwhile i realized that they only seemed OP since i spammed spearmen agaisnt tme 20170901 12:37:20< wesnoth-discord-> lol 20170901 12:37:41-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@103.221.141.157] has joined #wesnoth 20170901 12:38:10< wesnoth-discord-> i really liked Northern Rebirth too 20170901 12:38:18< wesnoth-discord-> I used to think the Rebels were OP I still do 20170901 12:38:29< wesnoth-discord-> or do you still reckon they are too terrain reliant? 20170901 12:39:01< wesnoth-discord-> i think they like require some tactical skill 20170901 12:39:25< wesnoth-discord-> unlike loyalists which can spam spears and still manage 20170901 12:39:47< wesnoth-discord-> Loyalists are great, so versatile 20170901 12:40:10< wesnoth-discord-> I remember when I was 8 years old and played knalgans vs ai 20170901 12:40:22< wesnoth-discord-> and restarted turns when my thundersticks didnt land 20170901 12:40:37< wesnoth-discord-> i think the tactical skill is present just because Elves utilize leadership, ambush,healers, slow and other tactical moves 20170901 12:41:55< wesnoth-discord-> while loyalists are more straightforward, knalagans are more dodge heavy (the outlaw side has nice dodge chance everywhere and the dwarves are OP in mountains) 20170901 12:42:21< wesnoth-discord-> Dwarves are a joke on flat 20170901 12:42:33< wesnoth-discord-> Which is the problem, you can rush them down 20170901 12:42:56< wesnoth-discord-> on flat they utilize poachers, thieves and to some extent footpads 20170901 12:43:02< wesnoth-discord-> This is my problem with them, footpads I see as lackluster and gryphons are a huge investment 20170901 12:43:15< wesnoth-discord-> true poachers exist and their humans are cheap 20170901 12:43:23< wesnoth-discord-> but they are generally weak units 20170901 12:43:58< wesnoth-discord-> I still reckon they are the weakest in general 20170901 12:44:12< wesnoth-discord-> some could argue undead but adept is just op op 20170901 12:44:25< wesnoth-discord-> i kinda feel khalifate are currently the weakest for some reason 20170901 12:44:56< wesnoth-discord-> they are really expensive and orcs are a complete counter with cheap and regenerative trolls 20170901 12:45:03< wesnoth-discord-> khalifate? wait wot 20170901 12:45:14< wesnoth-discord-> i didnt think they got added? 20170901 12:45:22< wesnoth-discord-> they are added in my game 20170901 12:45:25< wesnoth-discord-> wait have i been lied to my whole life 20170901 12:45:27< wesnoth-discord-> but as like an addition 20170901 12:45:35< wesnoth-discord-> add on? hm ok ok 20170901 12:45:46< wesnoth-discord-> yeah i had the khalifate add on 20170901 12:45:49< wesnoth-discord-> like when i downloaded a newer version 20170901 12:45:53< wesnoth-discord-> they were just ther 20170901 12:45:56< wesnoth-discord-> I agree they are weak, but a challenge 20170901 12:46:22< wesnoth-discord-> coolio to see new content, i wish they added some really nice new campaigns 20170901 12:46:37-!- ancientcc [~ancientcc@103.221.141.157] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170901 12:47:27< wesnoth-discord-> i'd love to see a dragon campaign 20170901 12:47:35< wesnoth-discord-> or a new undead one 20170901 12:47:51< wesnoth-discord-> undead one was so damn easy 20170901 12:48:19< wesnoth-discord-> dragons hm sure 20170901 12:48:41< wesnoth-discord-> Or maybe since Khalifate come with the game 20170901 12:48:55< wesnoth-discord-> the undead one was hey guys i im 9 years old and my favourite units are nightgaunt and spectre 20170901 12:49:06< wesnoth-discord-> and i call them unique names like shadow embre and blade 20170901 12:49:12< wesnoth-discord-> that might be a sign a khalifate campaign is being made on 20170901 12:49:17< wesnoth-discord-> and backstab the hell out of ai 20170901 12:49:22< wesnoth-discord-> i call them ghost wolverine and reaper 20170901 12:49:27< wesnoth-discord-> heh 20170901 12:49:42< wesnoth-discord-> maybe a khalifate one 20170901 12:49:46< wesnoth-discord-> since you say it is official 20170901 12:50:32< wesnoth-discord-> my version is 1.12.6 and Khalifate just came with it 20170901 12:50:56< wesnoth-discord-> but i think they are being worked on/playtested since you can play the game without them 20170901 12:50:57< wesnoth-discord-> I might play wesnoth again after exams that will be fun 20170901 12:51:05< wesnoth-discord-> 'play tested' q.q 20170901 12:51:08< wesnoth-discord-> good 20170901 12:51:27< wesnoth-discord-> because well, their gold:stat ratio sucks 20170901 12:52:03< wesnoth-discord-> like their bowman which shoots flames 20170901 12:52:09< wesnoth-discord-> a shitty mage with 0 accuracy 20170901 12:52:16< wesnoth-discord-> and like a +7 hp 20170901 12:52:21< wesnoth-discord-> 18gold? 20170901 12:52:25< wesnoth-discord-> 19 20170901 12:52:26< wesnoth-discord-> seems like garbage 20170901 12:52:33< wesnoth-discord-> oh see :/ 20170901 12:52:39< wesnoth-discord-> then again mages are insane 20170901 12:52:58< wesnoth-discord-> i think all of their units are a bit expensive 20170901 12:53:01< wesnoth-discord-> what are your top 5 lvl1/0 units 20170901 12:53:04< wesnoth-discord-> yeah they are 20170901 12:53:14< wesnoth-discord-> but their horsmen are just terrible 20170901 12:53:14< wesnoth-discord-> like the marksman 2-9? 20170901 12:53:18< wesnoth-discord-> he is so expensive 20170901 12:53:23< wesnoth-discord-> woeful.... 20170901 12:53:30< wesnoth-discord-> the 21 horsemen 20170901 12:53:35< wesnoth-discord-> the 16 ones are ok 20170901 12:53:49< wesnoth-discord-> the marksmen swordsmen are awesome 20170901 12:53:53< wesnoth-discord-> hahah 20170901 12:54:03< wesnoth-discord-> i'd buff their damage a tiny bit 20170901 12:54:06< wesnoth-discord-> ill stay with my orcish grunts 20170901 12:54:06< wesnoth-discord-> to like 10 2 20170901 12:54:11< wesnoth-discord-> SWING SWING 20170901 12:54:55< wesnoth-discord-> Am I asking too much here 20170901 12:55:04< wesnoth-discord-> i like the marksman swordsman because you can easily get rid of a nasty thief/elven druid/orcish assasin 20170901 12:55:15< wesnoth-discord-> I want another level up path for dark adept 20170901 12:55:22< wesnoth-discord-> especially the assasin since you don't get poisoned 20170901 12:55:32< wesnoth-discord-> yeah true that is really niche 20170901 12:55:51< wesnoth-discord-> the spearman needs a new level up path 20170901 12:56:01< wesnoth-discord-> for javeliner 20170901 12:56:02< wesnoth-discord-> hahah actually yes 20170901 12:56:04< wesnoth-discord-> fix javelineer 20170901 12:56:13< wesnoth-discord-> I loved javelineer 20170901 12:56:18< wesnoth-discord-> but i hate having my xp wasted 20170901 12:56:24< wesnoth-discord-> gotta get that XP VALUE 20170901 12:56:43< wesnoth-discord-> which is the only reason why i liked lientenant 20170901 12:56:55< wesnoth-discord-> i think they are ok in maybe pvp matches where you don't see as much level ups 20170901 12:57:22< wesnoth-discord-> but in campaigns they turn useless by the mid-late game when enemeis spam level 2 or 3 units 20170901 12:57:34< wesnoth-discord-> yeah in pvp 20170901 12:57:52< wesnoth-discord-> omg the final battle in heir to the throne 20170901 12:57:59< wesnoth-discord-> RECALL THOSE 20 LVL3 UNITS YEAH THE BOYS 20170901 12:58:04< wesnoth-discord-> oh that felt good 20170901 12:58:09< wesnoth-discord-> also letting my units die 20170901 12:58:31< wesnoth-discord-> i literally charged her with grand knights 20170901 12:58:43< wesnoth-discord-> ....so did i..... 20170901 12:58:46< wesnoth-discord-> and my fully leveled fire mage 20170901 12:58:53< wesnoth-discord-> but you gotta have that sacrificial wall 20170901 12:59:04< wesnoth-discord-> lmao i had two archmages 20170901 12:59:08< wesnoth-discord-> or is it grand mage 20170901 12:59:09< wesnoth-discord-> 16-4 20170901 12:59:15< wesnoth-discord-> balanced? 20170901 12:59:19< wesnoth-discord-> ecksdee 20170901 12:59:28< wesnoth-discord-> well the grind for it is pretty big 20170901 12:59:57< wesnoth-discord-> ik 20170901 13:00:00< wesnoth-discord-> but it is so easy 20170901 13:00:23< wesnoth-discord-> under the burning suns ranged attacks made me depressed 20170901 13:00:35< wesnoth-discord-> no one can disagree with the 1-3 20170901 13:00:44< wesnoth-discord-> like really f off please 20170901 13:00:45< wesnoth-discord-> under the burning suns made me depressed in general 20170901 13:00:46< DeFender> @jyrkive not YET released campaign... :P (Hopefully I'll manage to finish it eventually.) 20170901 13:00:49< wesnoth-discord-> lol true 20170901 13:00:56< wesnoth-discord-> It was a depressing story 20170901 13:01:13< wesnoth-discord-> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bU0tKzy5-uE 20170901 13:01:15< wesnoth-discord-> mad song 20170901 13:01:32< wesnoth-discord-> DeFender: that's what I meant, obviously. I wasn't trying to imply that the campaign will never be public. 20170901 13:01:54< wesnoth-discord-> You know my first run of UTBS was crippling 20170901 13:02:14< wesnoth-discord-> I was levelling garrak or whatever the captain's name was 20170901 13:02:25< wesnoth-discord-> and then he just.....dogs the boys and kills himself 20170901 13:02:37< wesnoth-discord-> i liked under the burning suns for all the cool events and shifting objectives 20170901 13:02:37-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has quit [Quit: mattsc] 20170901 13:03:01< wesnoth-discord-> hm fair enough 20170901 13:03:11< wesnoth-discord-> and mudcrawlers 20170901 13:03:18< wesnoth-discord-> favourite campaign - that mudcrawler campaign 20170901 13:03:22< wesnoth-discord-> omg that was a meme 20170901 13:03:32< wesnoth-discord-> i kinda want a faction with mudcrawlers as buyable units 20170901 13:04:12< wesnoth-discord-> Does anyone know 20170901 13:04:32< wesnoth-discord-> hahaha 20170901 13:04:40< wesnoth-discord-> no I don't know 20170901 13:04:41< wesnoth-discord-> if you could actually beat Descent into darkness buy not buying any units in the first level 20170901 13:04:52< wesnoth-discord-> not to be rude but I think we need a well done faction of elementals 20170901 13:05:19< wesnoth-discord-> and by that not getting the main character banned 20170901 13:06:46< wesnoth-discord-> Hey 20170901 13:06:52< wesnoth-discord-> His level 1 ranged attack 20170901 13:07:01< wesnoth-discord-> is basically mudcrawler cause placeholder image 20170901 13:07:07< wesnoth-discord-> therefore MC is a mudcrawler 20170901 13:07:11< wesnoth-discord-> what does MC stand for? 20170901 13:07:14< wesnoth-discord-> Main Character 20170901 13:07:20< wesnoth-discord-> or MUD CRAWLER???? 20170901 13:07:38< wesnoth-discord-> and 20170901 13:07:44< wesnoth-discord-> he has brown robes 20170901 13:07:56< wesnoth-discord-> are they brown because its brown cloth 20170901 13:07:57< wesnoth-discord-> no 20170901 13:07:58< wesnoth-discord-> it's mud 20170901 13:08:42< wesnoth-discord-> it's mud 20170901 13:08:46< wesnoth-discord-> MC IS A HOST 20170901 13:08:53< wesnoth-discord-> THE BLONDE BOY IS A VESSEL FOR THE MUD 20170901 13:09:02-!- soloojos [~soloojos@gateway/tor-sasl/soloojos] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 20170901 13:09:13< wesnoth-discord-> and the tutor was actually trying to save the boy from the mud 20170901 13:09:14< wesnoth-discord-> MEDDLING MUD MAGICIAN 20170901 13:09:16< Soliton> @gohomoth: there is a different ending for it at least. Malin leaves either way though. 20170901 13:09:18< wesnoth-discord-> oh damn 20170901 13:09:26< wesnoth-discord-> aha 20170901 13:09:29< wesnoth-discord-> thanks 20170901 13:09:33< wesnoth-discord-> that is deep 20170901 13:09:41< wesnoth-discord-> lol 20170901 13:09:45< wesnoth-discord-> the tutor wasnt selfish 20170901 13:09:54< wesnoth-discord-> he risked his laifu 20170901 13:09:59< wesnoth-discord-> he was trying to resurect the boy 20170901 13:10:00< wesnoth-discord-> he also looked coolio 20170901 13:10:15< wesnoth-discord-> you know i didnt even discover the ghouls the first time i completed it LOL 20170901 13:10:23< wesnoth-discord-> on the topic of resurrection 20170901 13:10:25< wesnoth-discord-> i only found out about those last year 20170901 13:10:27< wesnoth-discord-> :/ 20170901 13:10:39< wesnoth-discord-> i never used to read the text :/ 20170901 13:10:42< wesnoth-discord-> are the two mages in northern rebirth necromancers or white mages 20170901 13:10:44< wesnoth-discord-> *depression* 20170901 13:10:46< wesnoth-discord-> i mean 20170901 13:10:51< wesnoth-discord-> white mages :3 20170901 13:10:57< wesnoth-discord-> how are they necros 20170901 13:10:59< wesnoth-discord-> they heal 20170901 13:10:59-!- soloojos [~soloojos@gateway/tor-sasl/soloojos] has joined #wesnoth 20170901 13:11:01< wesnoth-discord-> everytime one dies the other just resurrects it 20170901 13:11:02< wesnoth-discord-> and curse 20170901 13:11:07< wesnoth-discord-> oh true 20170901 13:11:25< wesnoth-discord-> literally one of the talks between characters is like 20170901 13:11:27< wesnoth-discord-> they are literally just salty personified doritoes 20170901 13:11:31< wesnoth-discord-> with an e 20170901 13:11:34< wesnoth-discord-> "dude your wife is dead" 20170901 13:11:35< wesnoth-discord-> that was intentional 20170901 13:11:48< wesnoth-discord-> "Oh don't worry i'll just bring her back hehe" 20170901 13:12:04< wesnoth-discord-> when he feels like some fun 20170901 13:12:18< wesnoth-discord-> Is all magic mud magic? 20170901 13:12:23< wesnoth-discord-> WHAT DO REDMAGES WEAR 20170901 13:12:27< wesnoth-discord-> WHAT DO MAGES WEAR HUH 20170901 13:13:07< wesnoth-discord-> mages actually have a protective coating of mudcrawlers 20170901 13:13:13< wesnoth-discord-> they summend themselves 20170901 13:13:45< wesnoth-discord-> that is why they have fire resistance? 20170901 13:13:53< wesnoth-discord-> it's a way to get recognizedby the mage council 20170901 13:13:54< wesnoth-discord-> cause mud just turns into dirt? 20170901 13:14:11< wesnoth-discord-> someone make this a campaign 20170901 13:14:18< wesnoth-discord-> you are a true mage only when you summon your first mudcrawler 20170901 13:14:19< wesnoth-discord-> a mudcrawler accidentally eats its host 20170901 13:14:22< wesnoth-discord-> and goes back to his colony 20170901 13:14:25< wesnoth-discord-> with fire powers 20170901 13:14:39< wesnoth-discord-> come on that would be pretty funny 20170901 13:14:56< wesnoth-discord-> yeah mudcrawlers or the mini ones 20170901 13:15:02< wesnoth-discord-> what are the mini ones called again 20170901 13:15:12< wesnoth-discord-> this should be an actual campaign 20170901 13:15:37-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has joined #wesnoth 20170901 13:15:39< wesnoth-discord-> xd 20170901 13:16:27< wesnoth-discord-> how long have you played wesnoth for? 20170901 13:16:41< wesnoth-discord-> since like a really early version 20170901 13:16:57< wesnoth-discord-> like since 2007 or '08 20170901 13:17:18< wesnoth-discord-> it was like in a game magazine 20170901 13:17:38< wesnoth-discord-> I assume you are no longer a student then 20170901 13:17:48< wesnoth-discord-> Never heard of a game magazine as a millenial 20170901 13:18:00< wesnoth-discord-> ew grammar 20170901 13:18:17< wesnoth-discord-> i saw it, installed it and literally played primarily wesnoth and Heroes 3 during grade school 20170901 13:19:11< wesnoth-discord-> ok american boy 20170901 13:19:12-!- Bugseeo [~Bugseeo@71-12-19-124.dhcp.spbg.sc.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20170901 13:19:19< wesnoth-discord-> i am like high school now or whatever school goes before college in America 20170901 13:19:28< wesnoth-discord-> i am just using american terms 20170901 13:19:29-!- Bugseeo [~Bugseeo@2600:380:a338:572e:d408:1681:9ce:4be5] has joined #wesnoth 20170901 13:19:44< wesnoth-discord-> since i don't know how schools work in different countries 20170901 13:20:06< wesnoth-discord-> cultured 20170901 13:20:19< wesnoth-discord-> Ever played Tyrian? 20170901 13:20:54-!- Kwandulin [~Kwandulin@p200300E453CC3BA7014A9641E2C1E4D5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20170901 13:21:02< wesnoth-discord-> not really 20170901 13:21:16< wesnoth-discord-> i don't even know what it is 20170901 13:21:36< wesnoth-discord-> give it a go it's a fun shooter 20170901 13:21:42< wesnoth-discord-> sure 20170901 13:21:51< wesnoth-discord-> aight it's late ttyl mate 20170901 13:22:40< wesnoth-discord-> bye 20170901 14:12:27-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170901 14:12:34-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20170901 14:17:47-!- Kwandulin [~Kwandulin@p200300E453CC3BA7014A9641E2C1E4D5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth 20170901 14:40:55-!- soloojos [~soloojos@gateway/tor-sasl/soloojos] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 20170901 14:54:05-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has quit [Quit: mattsc] 20170901 14:55:24-!- ToBeCloud [uid51591@wikimedia/ToBeFree] has joined #wesnoth 20170901 14:58:39-!- soloojos [~soloojos@gateway/tor-sasl/soloojos] has joined #wesnoth 20170901 15:09:55-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170901 15:16:07< wesnoth-discord-> aeth: I couldn't care less who is a dev and who isn't right now. And a lot of people with opinions I strongly disagree with are devs (even I promoted some of them). Point is you keep making the platform Wesnoth uses for communication into an issue thay is somehow really personal to you, when you are not even a Wesnoth dev (yet, like someone else said before, intentions do not count until there's patches to back them up, 20170901 15:16:07< wesnoth-discord-> otherwise everyone would be a dev). That is just silly and doesn't move the debate in a productive direction. 20170901 15:16:58< wesnoth-discord-> I want the devs to have their own debate since vultraz went and made an unilateral decision in that regard. 20170901 15:17:32-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has joined #wesnoth 20170901 15:17:40< wesnoth-discord-> Users can do whatever they want since IRC is not going to be phased out for them, and neither is Discord. 20170901 15:19:19< wesnoth-discord-> Also, you sound like you have some history with me that I cannot remember at all, but if you want to refresh my memory please do so in a query rather than in public. 20170901 15:26:43< wesnoth-discord-> Nah, I love me so drama 20170901 15:30:00-!- DeFender [~DeFender1@93.172.30.106] has quit [Quit: I'm not back now.] 20170901 15:32:45-!- Kranix [~magnus@xd520f683.cust.hiper.dk] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 20170901 16:29:00-!- Kwandulin [~Kwandulin@p200300E453CC3BA7014A9641E2C1E4D5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20170901 16:29:42-!- Kwandulin [~Kwandulin@p200300E453CC3BA7014A9641E2C1E4D5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth 20170901 16:58:50< wesnoth-discord-> @shadowm I was the one who pointed out that you aren't a dev right now. And the reason I pointed that out is that anyone who isn't a developer doesn't review patches. That makes aeth's implication that you would somehow reject his hypothetical engine patches even more absurd. 20170901 17:05:43< wesnoth-discord-> @Taim what the hell is everyone whining about? 20170901 17:06:59-!- Kranix [~magnus@188-182-184-38-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has joined #wesnoth 20170901 17:07:12< wesnoth-discord-> The drama here is an IRC vs. Discord fight of epic proportions. Some people want that the Battle for Wesnoth project would use one of them exclusively. 20170901 17:07:42< wesnoth-discord-> (The above message might be a bit over-dramatized. πŸ˜‰ ) 20170901 17:09:38< wesnoth-discord-> Who the fuck cares. 20170901 17:10:21< wesnoth-discord-> Can they both communicate effectivly with the chat bot? 20170901 17:12:11< wesnoth-discord-> Exactly lmao 20170901 17:12:12< wesnoth-discord-> I think so, but some people disagree. The debate breaks out a couple times per month or so. \*sigh\* 20170901 17:13:32< wesnoth-discord-> Just make games, damn. 20170901 17:14:26< wesnoth-discord-> Don't mind the minor frictions. 20170901 17:14:46-!- ToBeCloud [uid51591@wikimedia/ToBeFree] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 20170901 17:21:35-!- Ravana_ [~Ravana@unaffiliated/ravana/x-2327071] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20170901 17:30:15-!- claymore [~claymore@unaffiliated/claymore] has joined #wesnoth 20170901 17:32:12-!- Ravana_ [~Ravana@unaffiliated/ravana/x-2327071] has joined #wesnoth 20170901 17:35:13< aeth> shadowm, the comment that really stood out to me from years ago is the time you told me that I'm such a perfectionist I'd kill myself. 20170901 17:37:56< aeth> iirc 20170901 17:38:33< aeth> But I'm 90% sure that digging through logs of things said years ago and querying them to you is not a constructive thing to do, so I won't. 20170901 17:42:06< wesnoth-discord-> You can make everything sound incredibly awful out of context, and especially when paraphrasing. But if it's an actual quote, I must apologize because that's not something I'd tell anyone these days. 20170901 17:42:16< aeth> It's possible that I misinterpreted what you said, and it's also possible that that wasn't you. 'perfectionist' is far too common of a word in my IRC logs to find that. 20170901 17:42:52< aeth> So common it would take me several hours. 20170901 17:44:28< aeth> I'm sorry if you didn't say that, or didn't mean that. It doesn't seem good to spend several hours finding the exact quote. 20170901 17:46:06< aeth> (And grep's broken on some of them because apparently it treats some channels' logs like a "binary file") 20170901 17:46:47< wesnoth-discord-> I wonder how that's even possible. Character encoding issue? 20170901 17:46:57< aeth> Yes, probably a Unicode issue. 20170901 17:47:21< aeth> When that happens I essentailly have to binary search around the issue, using tail and head piping into grep. It makes it more labor-intensive. 20170901 17:49:12< aeth> But, anyway, I don't think spending more than 30 minutes looking through 10 years of IRC logs (from about a dozen sources and half a dozen channels) for a quote that I might have misremembered or misunderstood at the time and shadowm doesn't even mean anymore if it's accurate is productive. 20170901 17:49:47< Ipsilon> sounds like a mean thing to say 20170901 17:52:22< Ipsilon> fwiw, use whatever protocol you want. Debating this is clearly pointless. But it's not true that both sides can communicate effectively, since the bot is unreadable unless you are a masochist. 20170901 17:52:24< shadowm> I used to say a lot of stuff that these days I'd find either embarassing or disturbing, so I'd not be surprised if it was an actual quote. People change, you know. 20170901 17:53:11< wesnoth-discord-> I guess I'm a masochist, then... πŸ˜‰ 20170901 17:53:13< shadowm> Since I can't go and change the past the best thing I can do is offer my apologies. 20170901 17:53:32< Ipsilon> jyrkive I can't even tab complete your name -_- 20170901 17:53:53< Ipsilon> but yes, you are. 20170901 17:54:01< Ipsilon> Κ•β€’α΄₯β€’Κ” 20170901 17:54:08< wesnoth-discord-> Ipsilon: it's not that hard to write seven characters, you know. 20170901 17:54:34< Ipsilon> what a vapid thing to say. 20170901 17:54:38< Ipsilon> lel 20170901 17:56:31< aeth> I appologize for ranting on IRC when the whole thing probably could have been avoided through private messaging. 20170901 17:57:29< Ipsilon> rants are 90% the point of irc, and 50% the point of discord (the other 40% is memes) 20170901 17:59:36< wesnoth-discord-> Are your IRC logs broken badly beyond repair? 20170901 17:59:40< aeth> Oh, and Discord autoloading the image imo is a bad thing. If there's one thing I've learned from, damn, idk 15+ years of IRC at this point, it's never click on image links, or pretty much all non-Wikipedia links. 20170901 18:00:24< wesnoth-discord-> There is an option to disable autoload. 20170901 18:00:25< zookeeper> ...you never click on image links? 20170901 18:01:13< shadowm> Unfortunately when you're a mod on either IRC or Discord you don't have much of a choice. 20170901 18:01:26< aeth> I still remember when I clicked on a website that embedded https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ and I had no clue what the point of the video or the site was. 20170901 18:01:53< aeth> That was on IRC way before it became a big cultural thing. 20170901 18:01:58< wesnoth-discord-> Discord gives a helpful preview here so I know not to click. πŸ˜‰ 20170901 18:02:45< aeth> It was a website that embedded the linked video. 20170901 18:03:06< aeth> I'm sure if it was a brand new thing, they'd find a way to full Discord. 20170901 18:03:39< aeth> s/full/fool/ 20170901 18:03:46< Ipsilon> rickrolling is the least scary troll link I've seen on irc. 20170901 18:03:53< aeth> yes, I needed a SFW example 20170901 18:04:53< aeth> I remember more recently clicking on a YouTube link that afaik bordered on highly inappropriate content (I closed it almost immediately). Now I avoid YouTube links. 20170901 18:05:28< zookeeper> why? 20170901 18:05:52< Ipsilon> I very rarely open links. More often than not, they are pointless at best. 20170901 18:07:14< aeth> Strangely, though, rickrolling is one of the few that I fell for back in the day. I usually had a good intuition of suspicious links. 20170901 18:07:29< aeth> I fortunately missed seeing most of the shock sites. 20170901 18:08:09< Ipsilon> url shortners, when I wasn't really aware of them, were the source of a few unfortunate clicks 20170901 18:09:06< aeth> It was mostly tinyurl back in the day and I quickly figured out iirc that you could just put preview. in front of the URL name, i.e. preview.tinyurl.com (was it .com? I haven't seen it in a while) 20170901 18:09:24< aeth> Useless tip, though, because people moved to even shorter domains. 20170901 18:10:51< aeth> I only have one in my browser history, so it's basically been dead for a while 20170901 18:11:28< shadowm> And here the worst thing that ever happened to me was that I joined an auto-D:lODODODOCOCOCOCOCOCine channel out of curiosity. xD 20170901 18:11:34< shadowm> *auto-D:line channel 20170901 18:12:28< Ipsilon> oh, trap channels... 20170901 18:13:18< wesnoth-discord-> wtf boi http://driedleav.es/wesnoth20170827/ 20170901 18:13:19-!- Bonobo [~Bonobo@203.220.138.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20170901 18:15:29< wesnoth-discord-> The link above = rickroll. 20170901 18:16:52< zookeeper> aww. restricted from playback on certain sites or applications. 20170901 18:17:12 * zookeeper clicks on "watch on youtube" anyway 20170901 18:19:14< aeth> Anyway, https://youtu.be/sD1vXjpZ11E is a more entertaining version. 20170901 18:20:18< aeth> (some strong language in that link) 20170901 18:22:17< zookeeper> next time warn immediately. i already heard the bad word. 20170901 18:22:39< aeth> sorry, I forgot until I ran it myself 20170901 18:23:19< zookeeper> unacceptable. 20170901 18:24:03< shadowm> My poor virgin ears have been defiled forever. 20170901 18:24:08< shadowm> /s 20170901 18:24:44< aeth> Well I'm sure someone somewhere works at a place where listening to Rick Astley is normally okay, but not that version. 20170901 18:26:00< shadowm> They'd better stay away from this and #wesnoth-dev then. 20170901 18:26:12< shadowm> There's a dev who likes to use the word every two sentences. 20170901 18:26:46< wesnoth-discord-> "You have a bad word somewhere on your screen! You're fired!" 20170901 18:26:46< shadowm> He also says 'shit' a lot. 20170901 18:26:51< wesnoth-discord-> When is CLion CE coming out? Debugging from Xcode totally beats me. 20170901 18:26:55< zookeeper> don't forget that wesnoth itself uses some strong language! not a game for kids. 20170901 18:27:07< shadowm> Those fucking tree-shaggers. 20170901 18:27:10< wesnoth-discord-> (Meanwhile I have coworkers who use bad language in *commit messaged*...) 20170901 18:27:13< zookeeper> :o 20170901 18:27:14< wesnoth-discord-> *messages 20170901 18:28:22< wesnoth-discord-> And I'm too lazy to install GNU/Linux. 20170901 18:30:09< wesnoth-discord-> Wait let's `brew install gdb`... 20170901 18:30:54< aeth> careful, "GNU/Linux" is not an allowed word at some workplaces, e.g. Microsoft 20170901 18:31:28< wesnoth-discord-> I have to warn that GDB is very difficult to use for beginners. If Xcode is too hard for you, GDB is even worse. 20170901 18:35:37< wesnoth-discord-> When you were learning what pointers are kiddo I was already running GDB! 20170901 18:36:01< wesnoth-discord-> But truly a beginner still am I. 20170901 18:43:05< wesnoth-discord-> @jyrkive it's interesting sometimes to browse GitHub commit messages 20170901 19:01:51-!- claymore [~claymore@unaffiliated/claymore] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20170901 19:18:14< wesnoth-discord-> @galego - @sinda has mentioned that there are ways to get around needing to use a paid version of CLion. Free betas for new versions, trial periods, and the like. That might be more trouble than you'd want to go through though. 20170901 19:20:14-!- Bugseeo [~Bugseeo@2600:380:a338:572e:d408:1681:9ce:4be5] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20170901 19:36:37-!- vultraz_iOS [uid24821@wesnoth/developer/vultraz] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 20170901 19:49:50-!- Kwandulin [~Kwandulin@p200300E453CC3BA7014A9641E2C1E4D5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20170901 19:55:00-!- edaq [~edaq3@h69-21-227-85.cytnin.dsl.dynamic.tds.net] has joined #wesnoth 20170901 20:03:48-!- Soo_Slow [~devnu11@178.67.234.144] has joined #wesnoth 20170901 20:36:50-!- aeth_ [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has joined #wesnoth 20170901 20:39:15-!- aeth [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20170901 20:39:28-!- aeth_ is now known as aeth 20170901 21:07:19< wesnoth-discord-> Does Wesnoth-dev irc and #development have a bridge bot too? 20170901 21:07:28< wesnoth-discord-> No. 20170901 21:07:48< wesnoth-discord-> reason for that or just overlooked? 20170901 21:09:06< wesnoth-discord-> AFAIK, the main reason is that IRC and Discord have separate bots to tell about commits in GitHub. If a bridge was set up and neither of the bost were shut down, there would be a duplicate message for every commit. 20170901 21:09:36< wesnoth-discord-> And both IRC and Discord sides seem to strongly oppose the idea of losing their bot. 20170901 21:10:06< wesnoth-discord-> since irc already looks like shit, you could get rid of their bot and have the bridge bot reporst the github discord bot πŸ˜‰ 20170901 21:17:03< wesnoth-discord-> I'd rally for IRC if I had to vote, but that sounds very sensible to me. 20170901 21:18:27< wesnoth-discord-> I honestly could care less. I only use discord right now to always have access to posts in the past 20170901 21:19:38< wesnoth-discord-> And with the steam release hopefully bringing in more players, discord would be more user-friendly to those who haven't used irc ever. IE younger audience 20170901 21:20:04< wesnoth-discord-> But that shouldn't matter for the development channels... 20170901 21:20:21< wesnoth-discord-> I know that was dropped. This is just in general again 20170901 21:20:30< wesnoth-discord-> discord and irc dev channels are separate for they have different topics 20170901 21:21:07< wesnoth-discord-> Having different topics is how they ended up being. It wasn't anyone's original plan. 20170901 21:21:54< wesnoth-discord-> Because most developers are in IRC, most discussions are there too (because they're intended to be seen by as many developers as possible). 20170901 21:22:31< wesnoth-discord-> Development discussion in Discord is mainly Vultraz asking me for advice. I actually don't know why he prefers to use Discord for that given that I'm also in IRC. 20170901 21:24:03-!- Soo_Slow [~devnu11@178.67.234.144] has quit [Quit: Soo_Slow] 20170901 21:27:58< wesnoth-discord-> Probably because it's easier to write code in chat than to use pastebin. 20170901 21:28:24< wesnoth-discord-> (Any pastebin.) 20170901 22:05:06-!- TheJJ [~rofl@ipbcc36896.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170901 22:06:11-!- TheJJ [~rofl@ipbcc36896.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has joined #wesnoth 20170901 22:16:49-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has quit [Quit: mattsc] 20170901 22:20:58< wesnoth-discord-> Wesnoth is getting released on Steam? That's awesome! 20170901 22:22:31-!- TheJJ [~rofl@ipbcc36896.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170901 22:22:57< wesnoth-discord-> @aeth How would you improve Wesnoth if you had infinite resources? 20170901 22:22:59< wesnoth-discord-> also hi 20170901 22:23:32-!- TheJJ [~rofl@ipbcc36896.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has joined #wesnoth 20170901 22:27:43-!- TheJJ [~rofl@ipbcc36896.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20170901 22:36:58-!- Bugseeo [~Bugseeo@2600:380:a338:572e:3401:e64a:4aa1:3772] has joined #wesnoth 20170901 22:37:45-!- TheJJ [~rofl@ipbcc36896.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has joined #wesnoth 20170901 22:42:34-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has joined #wesnoth 20170901 22:43:39-!- Bugseeo [~Bugseeo@2600:380:a338:572e:3401:e64a:4aa1:3772] has quit [Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client ( http://www.androirc.com )] 20170901 22:45:17< aeth> Infinite resources? Step by step rewrite of the parts of the engine that are too complex to be maintained, if they still exist. 20170901 22:46:20-!- Kranix [~magnus@188-182-184-38-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 20170901 22:46:59< aeth> But besides moving to OpenGL, most of the improvements that could be done to Wesnoth won't because the game itself is very mature, and the engine is very specific to Wesnoth's needs. 20170901 22:49:53< aeth> The Lua API is missing a lot of things, though. 20170901 22:51:25< Ipsilon> infinite resources? add more frames to animations. Redo the artwork (it's not bad, but with a complete rework a lot of details could be improved). 20170901 22:52:22< Ipsilon> also, depends what you mean by improving wesnoth 20170901 22:52:48< Ipsilon> I think a lot of changes necessary for a wider audience would require fundamentally changing the game 20170901 22:53:13< Ipsilon> like making the rng mechanics less agressive to new players 20170901 22:53:28< aeth> Wesnoth is defined by its RNG combat. 20170901 22:53:42< Ipsilon> right, that's what I meant 20170901 22:54:05< aeth> Simple RNG combat where terrain-based evasion is 90% of what you need to know is what makes Wesnoth Wesnoth. 20170901 22:54:17< Ipsilon> From anecdotal evidence, I think it's what keeps people away the most from wesnoth. 20170901 22:54:34< Ipsilon> From friends that I've tried to move to wesnoth 20170901 22:55:31< Ipsilon> Even when they know the game is just doing plain rng, it's hard not to feel cheated. 20170901 22:55:55< aeth> Wesnoth's best played by having sure units (preferably with magical or marksman) guarded by shield units to minimize the role of luck, retreating with unfavorable ToD, and paying more attention to evasion than anything else, a bit to resistances unless Undead and Drakes are involved to require a lot of focus on resistances. 20170901 22:56:30< aeth> So the whole game is basically luck/dodge, ToD, resistances in that order (unless Drakes/UD reverse the order of ToD and resitances). Very simple game without the luck factor. 20170901 22:56:40< Ipsilon> I'm not being critical of the game.I think it's fine. It's just an analysis on why a lot of people get turned off 20170901 22:56:57< aeth> Yeah, just saying that there'd basically be no combat system without the RNG. 20170901 22:57:16< zookeeper> i don't think you should argue in favour of the RNG and then use terms like "sure units" :> 20170901 22:57:17< aeth> Even the consideration to use 4 strike units over e.g. a thunderer is because you'll have more sure shots. 20170901 22:57:57< Ipsilon> I think part of the distaste (even a personal one, since I get salty at times), is the fact that the game is a lot more about the misses than the hits 20170901 22:58:05< aeth> zookeeper: One magical unit isn't certainty. Something dodging 6 is a memorable moment. 20170901 22:58:56< Ipsilon> I'm just entertaining for the sake fo discussion, since changes would be insanely drastic with unknown results. But you _can_ change rng to tweak the feel of a game 20170901 22:59:06< aeth> But I play best with units that have strong magical units (Elves, Humans, UD) because it's a good randomness-minimization strategy to essentially have magical units and those that shield them. 20170901 22:59:21< loonycyborg> why not go vulkan instead of opengl :P 20170901 22:59:26< Ipsilon> haha 20170901 22:59:28< Ipsilon> nice 20170901 22:59:30< aeth> loonycyborg: hardware support 20170901 22:59:33< Ipsilon> boo 20170901 22:59:34< loonycyborg> well 20170901 22:59:41< loonycyborg> we have inifinte resources 20170901 22:59:53< loonycyborg> so can gift good enough videocards to everyone 20170901 23:00:02< Ipsilon> ^ 20170901 23:00:46< Ipsilon> When I play campaigns, I rollback a lot tbh, otherwise the salt would be overpowering 20170901 23:00:55< Ipsilon> well, not "a lot" anymore 20170901 23:01:18< Ipsilon> but...if the rng fucks me hard, I just saveback, because I'm not about to waste my time 20170901 23:02:35< wesnoth-discord-> Infinite resources? I'd just abandon Wesnoth and build something new. 20170901 23:03:19< Ipsilon> take advantage of the hypothetical to rule the world 20170901 23:03:58< zookeeper> who would use infinite resources to "rule the world"? that's so... pedestrian 20170901 23:04:17< wesnoth-discord-> Both the game and its community are too stale right now, so there's not much to improve on even with infinite resources. 20170901 23:04:19< Ipsilon> i can think of a few characters 20170901 23:04:21< Ipsilon> brain 20170901 23:04:23< Ipsilon> hitler 20170901 23:04:25< Ipsilon> etc 20170901 23:05:32< Ipsilon> well, the market is much more crowded than it used to be. 20170901 23:06:08< Ipsilon> And the game is too hard for new players. It's a killer combo 20170901 23:08:25< Ipsilon> I guess it's not so much that it is hard. It's more that there is quite a bit of a learning curve to not being constantly kicked in the nuts--and the learning phase is not partiularly fun. 20170901 23:08:51< Ipsilon> So you gamble a lot on the notion that the ultimate reward will be even sweeter--but most people don't even get there. 20170901 23:09:25< zookeeper> i think the only thing i'd approve of for an "easier RNG" thingy would be some kind of training wheels mode which makes it less likely to suffer catastrophically bad luck. but it'd have to be clearly labeled as such so people wouldn't think it's a proper legit alternative. 20170901 23:10:03< Ipsilon> the issue is that most gamers don't go into a game thinking they are scrubs 20170901 23:10:08< Ipsilon> so nobody picks "scrub mode" in videogames 20170901 23:10:27< zookeeper> i have no qualms about not catering to that instinct 20170901 23:11:18< Ipsilon> sure, I'm not saying the game has to. I'm suggesting the reasons for why the lack of growth shouldn't be a surprise. 20170901 23:12:08-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has quit [Quit: mattsc] 20170901 23:48:15-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] --- Log closed Sat Sep 02 00:00:36 2017