--- Log opened Wed Sep 20 00:00:02 2017 20170920 00:07:29-!- prophile [~alynn@oftn/oswg-member/prophile] has quit [Quit: The Game] 20170920 00:40:16-!- ToBeCloud [uid51591@wikimedia/ToBeFree] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 20170920 02:22:05-!- ArneBab [~quassel@freenet/developer/arnebab] has joined #wesnoth 20170920 02:25:50-!- ArneBab_ [~quassel@freenet/developer/arnebab] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20170920 02:47:34-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170920 02:47:41-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20170920 03:09:22-!- edaq [~edaq3@h69-21-227-85.cytnin.dsl.dynamic.tds.net] has joined #wesnoth 20170920 03:34:48-!- edaq [~edaq3@h69-21-227-85.cytnin.dsl.dynamic.tds.net] has left #wesnoth ["Leaving"] 20170920 03:38:57< wesnoth-discord-> Ay! Question! Will the new version of wesnoth coming out for mobile have add-on support? 20170920 03:40:48< Necrosporus> If it does have it now it will 20170920 03:42:06< wesnoth-discord-> I wouldn't be so sure about that. IIRC, Apple's Terms of Service disallow iOS apps from downloading code from the Internet. 20170920 03:42:20< wesnoth-discord-> @sinda You're the iOS porter, any insights? 20170920 03:48:18< wesnoth-discord-> It will not - I have cut it out. While GPL2 is in a gray legal zone, downloadable content is explicitly phohibited by Apple. 20170920 03:48:46< wesnoth-discord-> There are good news though. I think I can work around it. Not in the first release though. 20170920 03:50:07< wesnoth-discord-> Are you planning to include add-ons in subsequent updates like our original porter did ages ago? 20170920 03:50:21< wesnoth-discord-> (Not dailin, the other guy who shall not be named.) 20170920 03:50:27< wesnoth-discord-> I don't know. 20170920 03:51:28< wesnoth-discord-> My current clever plan is: We can select a subset of most popular addons, PACKAGE ALL THEIR CODE into Wesnoth binary (WML and Lua shouldn't be too big) and include them into Wesnoth distribution. Then, only graphic resources will be downloaded. This clearly doesn't violate Apple's policy and allows for quite a lot of addons. 20170920 03:52:02< wesnoth-discord-> How are you going to accomplish that last part? 20170920 03:52:18< wesnoth-discord-> This might require changes to addon server, or it might not. 20170920 03:52:43< wesnoth-discord-> Maybe it is OK to downoad code but NOT TO EXECUTE it. 20170920 03:52:54< wesnoth-discord-> Yeah, that's the problem. Even if you added a thing to allow the add-ons server to only retrieve non-executable resources, that doesn't mean add-ons might not break spectacularly later on. 20170920 03:53:18< wesnoth-discord-> I don't see any new problem in this. 20170920 03:53:36< wesnoth-discord-> This is the case with desktop Wesnoth, right? 20170920 03:53:38< wesnoth-discord-> For example, if version 0.1.2 of Foo Bar, bundled in the app, references images that are gone in the latest version now on the add-ons server. 20170920 03:53:49< wesnoth-discord-> Ah. 20170920 03:53:56< wesnoth-discord-> This surely can happen. 20170920 03:54:13< wesnoth-discord-> Ah lawdy 20170920 03:54:16< wesnoth-discord-> It will happen. Add-ons change all the time. 20170920 03:54:35< wesnoth-discord-> Do you know, does add-on server keep all versions of addons, and if specific version can be requested? 20170920 03:54:44< wesnoth-discord-> No, it doesn't. Only the latest version is stored. 20170920 03:55:18< wesnoth-discord-> If not... well, what stops me from keeping a separate own add-on server for iOS version? Except for the cost, of course. 20170920 03:55:21< wesnoth-discord-> i know nothing of legalesse, would it be possible to just contact apple and get them to make a exception, or a work around of some sort? 20170920 03:55:30< wesnoth-discord-> I wouldn't be opposed to making it so earlier versions are preserved and available somehow but I'm afraid the people who actually have to keep an eye on our disk usage might have some objections. 20170920 03:56:07< wesnoth-discord-> @Dragokiir A lot of people want an exception for themselves and don't get it. Why would we be different? 20170920 03:56:13< wesnoth-discord-> We could run a separate read-only add-ons server instance that is synced specifically for the iOS version, yes. 20170920 03:56:30< wesnoth-discord-> There's even functionality to set the server to read-only mode already (although it also freezes download counts). 20170920 03:57:39< wesnoth-discord-> I don't know about other people who have asked for expcetions, but could it be proved that this wasn't going to do anything bad? Would the fact that Wesnoth is a old, but still going Mac app carry any weight? 20170920 03:58:41< wesnoth-discord-> Just auditing Wesnoth code for "something bad" would take at least a man-month (very modest estimation) of highly qualified C++ developer. Who is going to pay for this? 20170920 03:59:17< wesnoth-discord-> Good point! Could you create something like add-on packs to download from the store? 20170920 03:59:42< wesnoth-discord-> There are tens of thousands of old popular Mac apps, again. 20170920 03:59:50< wesnoth-discord-> Yes, that's the plan. 20170920 04:00:02< wesnoth-discord-> Ah, alright! 20170920 04:54:25< Necrosporus> Why by mobile version you mean iOS version? 20170920 04:54:36< Necrosporus> Surely there are no restrictions on android version? 20170920 04:55:17< Necrosporus> even if google store have had similar policy Wesnoth android port could be hosted on F-Droid repository 20170920 04:55:34< Necrosporus> Or simply on main wesnoth.org site as apk download 20170920 04:56:02< Necrosporus> Also are there completely no way to download iOS packages without apple apps-store? 20170920 04:56:13< Necrosporus> Is there something like APK for iOS? 20170920 04:56:37< wesnoth-discord-> Google Play allows add-ons. 20170920 04:57:02< Necrosporus> Still hosting it also on F-Droid is a good idea 20170920 04:57:15< wesnoth-discord-> On iOS, there is so-called AdHoc distribution, but it's extremely limited and complicated. Apple does everything it can to make people use the App Store. 20170920 04:57:48< Necrosporus> As far as I know jailbreaking was ruled legal recently? 20170920 04:57:50< wesnoth-discord-> To start with, IIRC AdHoc distribution is limited to about 100 copies. 20170920 04:58:12< Necrosporus> If it's only used to install legal FOSS software then it must be perfectly legal, right? 20170920 04:59:08< wesnoth-discord-> It would be legal, sure. But the primary reason for the iOS port is money, and we would barely get anything if the game wasn't in App Store. 20170920 04:59:09< Necrosporus> Then we can have two iOS version, one for apple store without addons and other for jailbroken device which supports addons? 20170920 04:59:29< Necrosporus> from official server 20170920 04:59:48< wesnoth-discord-> Two iOS versions would be possible, but it's another question whether anyone wants to spend the effort. 20170920 05:00:47-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has quit [Quit: And lo! The computer falls into a deep sleep, to awake again some other day!] 20170920 05:01:10< Necrosporus> What if iOS version had addon support but it were disabled by default? 20170920 05:01:21< Necrosporus> and a user can enable it in preferences after installing? 20170920 05:01:25< wesnoth-discord-> Not allowed. 20170920 05:01:49< Necrosporus> What if that preference setting is not exposed through user interface and requires some obscure command? 20170920 05:02:00< wesnoth-discord-> Still disallowed. 20170920 05:02:22< Necrosporus> Then wesnoth is alread disallowed, no matter what since it has lua console? 20170920 05:02:31< Necrosporus> and you can enter arbitrary code there? 20170920 05:02:50< wesnoth-discord-> Apple disallows downloading code from the Internet. The Lua console can't do that. 20170920 05:03:24< Necrosporus> Interesting, discord bot somehow supports passing highlighting 20170920 05:03:33< Necrosporus> though it looks quite agressive on IRC end 20170920 05:03:49< wesnoth-discord-> Heh. That's impressive. ๐Ÿ‘ 20170920 05:06:56< Necrosporus> Does app store policy forbid web-browsers then? 20170920 05:07:05< wesnoth-discord-> Yes, it does. 20170920 05:07:17< Necrosporus> But they have their own web browser 20170920 05:07:19< aeth> All iOS web browsers are just skins on top of the existing one 20170920 05:07:24< wesnoth-discord-> Third-party web browsers on iOS, such as Chrome and Firefox, are just Safari shells. 20170920 05:07:33< aeth> It's not like on Android where Firefox Mobile is its own legit browser 20170920 05:09:34< wesnoth-discord-> It also means that Safari has effectively 100% market share on iOS. Even though Google and Mozilla have better support for modern web standards, web developers can't use features that Safari doesn't support unless they're willing to make a website that doesn't work on any iOS device. 20170920 05:17:31< Necrosporus> It's not necessarily a bad thing though 20170920 05:17:39< Necrosporus> Given some web-standards 20170920 05:17:49< Necrosporus> Unfortunately Safari supports them 20170920 05:18:09< Necrosporus> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15278883 20170920 05:19:22< wesnoth-discord-> Well, I have news for you. Safari does support DRM. It was mainly Mozilla that opposed it. 20170920 05:20:23< Necrosporus> Opposed so well that it included it 20170920 05:20:36< Necrosporus> I have switched off firefox because of it 20170920 05:21:18< Necrosporus> I don't buy arguments that if they didn't support DRM users would turn away from firefox 20170920 05:21:42< Necrosporus> There is very small minority of sites which use EME 20170920 05:22:02< Necrosporus> If Mozilla didn't support it EME would not spread 20170920 05:22:22< wesnoth-discord-> I mean 20170920 05:22:27< wesnoth-discord-> maybe that was true years ago 20170920 05:22:38< wesnoth-discord-> but Chrome is the big browser now 20170920 05:23:22< Necrosporus> And Mozilla have copied all the features from chrome which makes it no better 20170920 05:23:34< Necrosporus> I mean Firefox doesn't stand out 20170920 05:23:41< Necrosporus> It's just another browser 20170920 05:23:50< wesnoth-discord-> so, what, you went to vivaldi now or something? 20170920 05:24:02< Necrosporus> No, it's firefox fork 20170920 05:24:03< wesnoth-discord-> I hope you're not trying to claim that it's a good thing that Safari "stands out" by being severely outdated. 20170920 05:24:12< wesnoth-discord-> oh god, not pale moon 20170920 05:24:20< Necrosporus> No, not pale moon 20170920 05:25:05< Necrosporus> https://forum.palemoon.org/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=16504 I would not use pale moon because of that 20170920 05:26:22< Necrosporus> Not that I want to use said addon 20170920 05:26:33-!- Kwandulin [~Kwandulin@pD9FD50F1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth 20170920 05:26:47< Necrosporus> But this policy is a sign 20170920 05:27:05< wesnoth-discord-> which are you using then? If they're saying they're going to keep supporting the old, non-web extensions add-ons, they better have a huge team behind them or they're going to start falling behind on security very quickly. 20170920 05:27:28< Necrosporus> I think that IceWeasel should be fine 20170920 05:27:30< Necrosporus> or IceCat 20170920 05:28:35< Necrosporus> AFAIK IW is built with EME disabled 20170920 05:29:14< wesnoth-discord-> doesn't IceWeasel just install firefox-esr? 20170920 05:29:24< wesnoth-discord-> at least that's what the Debian wiki says 20170920 05:29:54< Necrosporus> I don't know 20170920 05:30:09< wesnoth-discord-> "In Debian Stretch and later, the package iceweasel is a transitional package which installs the firefox-esr package." 20170920 05:30:10< Necrosporus> Isn't it built by debian team? 20170920 05:30:29< Necrosporus> Or they repackage mozilla binaries? 20170920 05:30:38< wesnoth-discord-> also this: https://lwn.net/Articles/676799/ 20170920 05:31:46< Necrosporus> So the question is does debian build of firefox-esr disable EME? 20170920 05:31:52< Necrosporus> Preferably completely 20170920 05:32:10< Necrosporus> Like excluding that code from binary alltogether instead of just flipping a bit in preferences 20170920 05:32:43< wesnoth-discord-> I don't know what Debian does about compiling different packages or not. But regardless, if Firefox was the only one not supporting EME, most people wouldn't cheer them on - they'd be annoyed they can't watch their Netflix/etc shows and use another browser. 20170920 05:32:54-!- Kwandulin [~Kwandulin@pD9FD50F1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20170920 05:33:14< Necrosporus> I have heard about Netflix only in context of EME discussions 20170920 05:33:28< Necrosporus> I have never heard about this site before 20170920 05:33:32< Ipsilon> funny to read drm complaints in here *cough* *cough* 20170920 05:33:40< Necrosporus> Why would users care that some obscure site stopped working? 20170920 05:33:43-!- Kwandulin [~Kwandulin@pD9FD50F1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth 20170920 05:33:47< Necrosporus> It's not Youtube 20170920 05:33:49< wesnoth-discord-> uhh... 20170920 05:33:57< DeFender1031> @Pentarctagon, what's wrong with pale moon? 20170920 05:34:10< Necrosporus> DeFender1031, see topic from above 20170920 05:34:40< DeFender1031> Necrosporus, didn't ask you. That topic is not clear-cut. 20170920 05:34:53< wesnoth-discord-> Necrosporus: Netflix is a huge site. 20170920 05:35:06< Necrosporus> Not if compared to youtube or vimeo 20170920 05:35:30< Necrosporus> they two work without DRM 20170920 05:35:57< Necrosporus> So if firefox shipped without EME they still work and it means that users will be able to watch absolute majority of online videos 20170920 05:36:04< Necrosporus> Twitch also works without DRM 20170920 05:36:11< wesnoth-discord-> Necrosporus: Netflix's Alexa rank is 32. It definitely counts as huge. 20170920 05:36:22< Necrosporus> And what is youutube rank? 20170920 05:36:31< Necrosporus> I bet it orders of magnitude bigger? 20170920 05:36:42< wesnoth-discord-> DeFender1031: They're a small team trying to do the same thing that Firefox is saying is too much work to do. I wouldn't trust it to be secure at all. 20170920 05:36:46< Ipsilon> sites that would like drm but haven't implemented it yet, will probably do so via EME 20170920 05:36:50< wesnoth-discord-> YouTube's rank is 2. 20170920 05:37:11< Necrosporus> And 1 is google? 20170920 05:37:12< wesnoth-discord-> In Alexa rank, smaller is better. 1 is Google, the largest site on the Internet. 20170920 05:37:28< Necrosporus> Right 20170920 05:37:53< Necrosporus> So only perhaps 0.1% of online videos won't be available without EME, right? 20170920 05:38:07< Necrosporus> If you count all videos on sites from first 100 20170920 05:38:16< wesnoth-discord-> Twitch is 41, and Vimeo is 134. 20170920 05:38:30< wesnoth-discord-> So both of them are smaller than Netflix. 20170920 05:38:36< Necrosporus> Well, ok 20170920 05:38:38< wesnoth-discord-> Necrosporus: Netflix, at least in North America, accounted for ~35% of internet bandwidth used. 20170920 05:38:42< wesnoth-discord-> last year 20170920 05:39:03< Necrosporus> Still youtube alone will be enough to replace all videosites except NSFW stuff 20170920 05:39:42< wesnoth-discord-> "sorry, Netflix doesn't work because of our stance on DRM, we recommend youtube instead" 20170920 05:39:46< wesnoth-discord-> >.> 20170920 05:40:31< Necrosporus> I think Netflix would have allowed undrmed video in firefox if it didn't support EME 20170920 05:40:31< wesnoth-discord-> Netflix customers pay $$$ to view TV shows! I don't think they'd stop using Netflix only because one web browser doesn't support EME. 20170920 05:40:38< Necrosporus> perhaps limited to 720p or something 20170920 05:41:00< Necrosporus> Netflix customers is a minority compared to firefox users 20170920 05:41:13< Necrosporus> Perrhaps 0.01% of firefox use netflix 20170920 05:41:18< Necrosporus> It won't be a big loss 20170920 05:41:24< Necrosporus> * of firefox users 20170920 05:41:31< wesnoth-discord-> also, 73% of statistics are made up 20170920 05:41:48< Ipsilon> 100% of 0.01% statistics are made up 20170920 05:41:58< wesnoth-discord-> you can't just say something won't matter without having any information on what the actual count is 20170920 05:42:10< Necrosporus> Well, perhaps we can try and count it 20170920 05:42:18< Necrosporus> How many are there netflix users currently? 20170920 05:42:25< Necrosporus> How many there are firefox users? 20170920 05:42:32< Necrosporus> I believe second is higher than first 20170920 05:43:05< Necrosporus> But I guess this statistics can be found somewhere 20170920 05:43:05< wesnoth-discord-> "As of July 2017, Netflix had 103.95 million subscribers worldwide" "According to Mozilla, as of December 2014 there were half a billion Firefox users around the world." 20170920 05:43:35< wesnoth-discord-> So, about 1:5 (not taking into account that Firefox has lost market share since 2014). 20170920 05:43:36< Necrosporus> So even if all netflix users used firefox it would be only 10% loss 20170920 05:43:44< Necrosporus> 20% 20170920 05:44:03< wesnoth-discord-> Firefox isn't in a position where they can just toss away 20% of their users 20170920 05:44:04< Necrosporus> Not much compared to DRM threats 20170920 05:44:15< wesnoth-discord-> in fact, most things aren't 20170920 05:44:21< Necrosporus> Wait, what is firefox market share? 20170920 05:44:31< Necrosporus> 20%? 20170920 05:45:04< Necrosporus> Multiply 20% with FF market share (assuming that netflix share is close to general share) 20170920 05:45:07< wesnoth-discord-> 5,9 % according to http://gs.statcounter.com/ 20170920 05:45:13< Necrosporus> 20% * 20% = 4% 20170920 05:45:13< wesnoth-discord-> It includes mobile. 20170920 05:45:23< Necrosporus> 20% * 5.9% then 20170920 05:45:31< wesnoth-discord-> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers#Summary_tables 20170920 05:45:40< Ipsilon> why would firefox lose users to DRM? There isn't an alternative. In particular if you draw the venn diagram (users who care about DRM and use firefox ( 3 people ) people who would use an alternative that doesn't actually implement EME) 20170920 05:45:53< Necrosporus> So Netflix users are roughly 1.2% of firefox users 20170920 05:46:09< wesnoth-discord-> Math doesn't work like that... 20170920 05:46:33< Ipsilon> math is irrelevant. What's the alternative? 20170920 05:46:43< Necrosporus> Do not implement EME 20170920 05:46:46< Ipsilon> Every web engine will implement EME 20170920 05:46:55< Necrosporus> If Netflix wants DRM they could ship their APP 20170920 05:47:12< Necrosporus> It would be preferable to broswers shipping EME 20170920 05:47:21< Ipsilon> Yeah, sounds nice. that's not gnna happen. and EME is inevitable. 20170920 05:47:26< wesnoth-discord-> Wonderful. Now instead of EME, I have to install an entirely separate application 20170920 05:47:35< Ipsilon> well, you _don't_ 20170920 05:47:41< Necrosporus> You don't have to install anything if you don't use Netflix 20170920 05:47:42< wesnoth-discord-> that as a native install, can do a heck of a lot more 20170920 05:47:44< Necrosporus> Which is great 20170920 05:48:04< wesnoth-discord-> Why would Netflix require an app? It's better for them to allow people to use it without installing anything. Why would Netflix act against their own best interest? 20170920 05:48:09< Necrosporus> And if you need to have EME support even if you don't use Netflix it's ungreat 20170920 05:48:27< Ipsilon> via EME, you will still have to use their code. It's restricted, but you are still running shitty code you can't really check. 20170920 05:49:00< wesnoth-discord-> The number of people who would actually read the code of EME plugins, were it available, might actually be 0.01% 20170920 05:49:02< Necrosporus> So my point is: the harder for Netflix to implement DRM the better for users 20170920 05:49:11< Necrosporus> EME makes it easy to implement DRM so it's bad 20170920 05:49:14< wesnoth-discord-> And Mozilla has given the argument that with EME they at least can implement restrictions. Firefox runs the Content Decryption Module inside a sandbox. 20170920 05:49:27< wesnoth-discord-> Necrosporus: that only works if there's a unified response to not use EME 20170920 05:49:47< Ipsilon> that's such an irrelevant statement. Not everyone needs to read the code, for enough people to have eyes on it and prevent stupid behaviors. 20170920 05:49:54< wesnoth-discord-> otherwise, people will just switch to a browser that lets them do what they want 20170920 05:50:06< wesnoth-discord-> which for many means, one that lets them watch Netflix 20170920 05:50:24< Necrosporus> Not many people want to watch Netflix, most don't 20170920 05:50:33< Ipsilon> pretty mcuh W3C fucked us. The game is over. EME is a thing. Your only solution is to boycot applications that use it. 20170920 05:50:41< Necrosporus> As we calculated only about 1.2% of firefox users 20170920 05:50:42< wesnoth-discord-> I wouldn't call 100 million people "not many"... 20170920 05:51:05< Necrosporus> You have to muliply it by firefox market share 20170920 05:51:05< wesnoth-discord-> Most also don't use Firefox, if that's the metric you want to you 20170920 05:51:16< wesnoth-discord-> *you want to use 20170920 05:51:23< Necrosporus> 100M is not many compared to 500M 20170920 05:51:29< wesnoth-discord-> ...yes it is 20170920 05:51:32< wesnoth-discord-> Because Firefox doesn't want to win any market share back. Got it. /s 20170920 05:51:56< Ipsilon> Necrosporus: your point is not important to firefox anyway. Since Firefox targets teh lowest common denominator. Even if you were right, they would still do it regardless...because it's what the average user wants. And yes--the average user wants Netflix. 20170920 05:51:59< Necrosporus> but FF did also lose some market share by implementing EME 20170920 05:52:08< Necrosporus> And loss could easily be larger than win 20170920 05:52:10< wesnoth-discord-> proof? 20170920 05:52:16< Necrosporus> It did lose me 20170920 05:52:25< Ipsilon> it lost you to what? 20170920 05:52:27< Ipsilon> what are you using? 20170920 05:52:36< Necrosporus> Something else than firefox 20170920 05:52:42< Ipsilon> THat's not an answer 20170920 05:52:50< Ipsilon> since most implement/will implement EME 20170920 05:52:54< wesnoth-discord-> If you're using IceWeasel, it didn't actually lose you. 20170920 05:53:05< wesnoth-discord-> You just got a different logo, mostly 20170920 05:53:29< wesnoth-discord-> And the important part for the browser war is the layout engine anyway. 20170920 05:54:03< wesnoth-discord-> If, say, SeaMonkey (which also uses the Gecko engine) were to gain huge market share, Mozilla would be cheering. It would mean that web developers have to support Gecko. 20170920 05:54:22< wesnoth-discord-> Looking forward to Quantum and Servo related projects, on that front ๐Ÿ˜„ 20170920 05:54:24< Ipsilon> Evidently the most important part for the browser war is forcing yourself onto people. 20170920 05:55:24< wesnoth-discord-> If it's that important to you, you could compile it yourself with EME not part of it 20170920 05:55:47< wesnoth-discord-> Otherwise, Firefox is free to do whatever they want with their own software 20170920 05:55:49< wesnoth-discord-> Or disable EME via advanced preferences, if it's enough for you. 20170920 05:55:51< Necrosporus> If I were in firefox lead I'd prefer to lose perhaps 1% of users to having to implement DRM and lose perhaps smaller percentage of users but also be viewed as hypocrite 20170920 05:55:53< Ipsilon> oh god, don't complile firefox. it's such a pita 20170920 05:56:06< wesnoth-discord-> Vivaldi even offers such an option in its GUI. 20170920 05:56:55< wesnoth-discord-> Also, yes compiling firefox is a pain 20170920 05:56:58< Necrosporus> 1% comes from 20% * 5.6% which would be very rough approximation of firefox users who would use netflix 20170920 05:57:00< Ipsilon> Saying that firefox is free to do whatever they want is a bit shortsighted. Mozilla is a non-profit with a duty to its cause. So while you are mostly right, there are strong caveats 20170920 05:57:03< Ipsilon> both moral, and legal. 20170920 05:57:46< Necrosporus> which also makes it imperative not to support DRM 20170920 05:58:11< wesnoth-discord-> For Mozilla, dropping from 5,9 % to 4,9 % would be a huge problem. For one thing, it would mean much lower income, and less manpower to compete against Google. 20170920 05:58:12< wesnoth-discord-> Necrosporus: That isn't how any of that works. That completely ignores the percentage of firefox users who use netflix and just assumes the lowest possible value. 20170920 05:59:05< Ipsilon> 1.2% of firefox users being lost doesn't translate to a 1% loss in market share 20170920 05:59:11< Necrosporus> No, it's not dropping from 5.9% to 4.9% it's dropping from 5.9% to 5.84% 20170920 05:59:28< wesnoth-discord-> Your math is wrong. 20170920 05:59:37< wesnoth-discord-> If half of netflix users were actually firefox users, then it would be a lot more than 1%. But that's the point - nobody here knows that percentage. 20170920 05:59:56< Necrosporus> We know that 6% of internet users are firefox users 20170920 06:00:06< wesnoth-discord-> And if you don't know, you can't automatically assume the value that most supports your stance. 20170920 06:00:12< Necrosporus> It's reasonable to presume that 6% of netflix users are firefox users 20170920 06:00:24< Necrosporus> 6% from 100M is 6M 20170920 06:00:34< Necrosporus> 6M of 500M is 1.2% 20170920 06:00:57< Necrosporus> if 500M is 5.9%, then 494M is 5.84% 20170920 06:02:27< wesnoth-discord-> Again, you're assuming. 20170920 06:02:39< Ipsilon> yes, but his math is the correct math based on the assumptions 20170920 06:02:46< Ipsilon> the 1% drop in market share was jsut incorrect math 20170920 06:03:22< Necrosporus> But I guess that percentage of netflix users among firefox users is even below this approximation because netflix limits resolution to 720p for firefox and chrome and only allows high resolution for browser which implement EME integrated with video drivers,which is currently only MS Edge 20170920 06:04:03< Necrosporus> So the effect of lost of netflix users will be even below my approximations 20170920 06:04:14< Ipsilon> I think Firefox is grasping at straws trying to remain relevant. The sad truth is that firefox can't keep having caveats when comparing it to chrome 20170920 06:04:45< Ipsilon> if chrome has 100% of the marketing, thena t least firefox needs the technical and feature superiority. 20170920 06:04:53< wesnoth-discord-> All right, I dug up some more data. Firefox market share in 2014 (when they said that they have 500M users) was 11,27 % according to StatCounter. Extrapolating from that suggests that Firefox has about 260 million users left now. 20170920 06:05:28< wesnoth-discord-> Which would mean that about 2,3 percent of Firefox users also use Netflix. 20170920 06:05:47< wesnoth-discord-> (Assuming that the percentage of Netflix users is the same for all browsers.) 20170920 06:06:10< Ipsilon> I use firefox and netflix (๏ฝกโ—•โ€ฟโ€ฟโ—•๏ฝก) 20170920 06:06:25< Ipsilon> long live the 1% 20170920 06:07:05< aeth> Chrome tracks everything you do and puts it on your Google history, in your Google profile, visible from the web. Sure, you can probably disable that, but with software defaults matter and bad defaults definitely matter. It's incredibly creepy, and I haven't touched Chrome since I found that feature. 20170920 06:07:25< aeth> If you want people to use Firefox instead of Chrome, just show them that Google does that with their history. 20170920 06:07:45< wesnoth-discord-> honestly, it's a bit amazing how well firefox has managed to keep up, given Chrome is supported by one of the largest corporations on the planet 20170920 06:07:50< Ipsilon> People know about the discord TOS and still use it. I don't think that approach has ever worked aeth. 20170920 06:07:56< wesnoth-discord-> same with IE/Edge and Safari 20170920 06:08:32< wesnoth-discord-> Well, at least for Safari it isn't surprising, given that it's the only option on iOS. 20170920 06:08:42< Ipsilon> People's attention span to getting e-fingered by companies/governments is ~25 seconds 20170920 06:09:09< Ipsilon> But I agree, and use Firefox. 20170920 06:09:19< aeth> Ipsilon: Unfortunately, yes, people don't react properly to that sort of thing. They think I'm some paranoid conspiracy theorist for caring about being tracked. 20170920 06:09:45< Necrosporus> Same goes when you say that windows is bad 20170920 06:09:56< Necrosporus> be it windows 10 or just windows in general 20170920 06:10:06< wesnoth-discord-> I know I'm being tracked and it bothers me, but at the end of the day I just want to get crap done and not have to live like a hermit Stallman-style. 20170920 06:10:27< Ipsilon> QED 20170920 06:10:27-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth 20170920 06:10:56< Necrosporus> Harm of tracking is not immediately obvious 20170920 06:11:02< aeth> I find basically no difference between Google's stuff and Google alternatives except that Google's stuff keeps trying to opt me into creepy tracking (like that default to log my location history on Android literally everywhere) and the alternatives hopefully don't. 20170920 06:11:09< Necrosporus> Like harm of fist punch or electrick shock say 20170920 06:12:55< Ipsilon> I don't think you need to be RMS to make better choices. You can make compromises without being intellectually lazy. But it's ok not to care--it's _not_ ok to compalin afterwards and pretend you didn't know any better. 20170920 06:13:18< wesnoth-discord-> personally at least, I view privacy as just another facet of security. the best thing you can do with security is reduce the attack surface, and things that promote privacy tend to do that as well. 20170920 06:13:21< Ipsilon> Which seems to be the MO of th world. 20170920 06:13:35< aeth> The thing is, everyone just assumes that nothing will change, but if FooCorp collects everything and saves it forever, who knows what it will be used for in 50 years? 20170920 06:14:16< wesnoth-discord-> in 50 years, it'll probably hacked into/sold across the internet and back multiple times, so it won't just be FooCorp ๐Ÿ˜› 20170920 06:14:50< aeth> There's nothing in the collected data that will be used to harm me now (unless it was sold to Equifax), but that's remarkably short-sighted. 20170920 06:15:46< aeth> If in 50 years popular opinion leads to a government that wants to imprison all people who write with their left-hand or something, then I'm now officially fucked because of Discord. :-p 20170920 06:15:57< aeth> To use something that I'm almost sure won't be used against me. 20170920 06:16:34< wesnoth-discord-> yw 20170920 06:17:48< Ipsilon> Discord is a fad, It's just a symptom. It doesn't deserve being blamed for anything, it'll be replaced by mushoochat or something with an equally stupid name. 20170920 06:18:22< wesnoth-discord-> I liked it better when the bridge was disabled tbh. 20170920 06:18:32< Ipsilon> yeah, it should be disabled 20170920 06:18:36< Ipsilon> I agree 100% 20170920 06:18:38< aeth> Ipsilon: I think we've gotten to the point where data collected will live on forever. 20170920 06:18:38< wesnoth-discord-> Or I can quiet you. 20170920 06:18:44< wesnoth-discord-> Any number people. 20170920 06:18:48< wesnoth-discord-> *of 20170920 06:18:53< Ipsilon> csb 20170920 06:19:13< wesnoth-discord-> I have access to the VM running the bridge but it's honestly much easier to ask chanserv for help. 20170920 06:19:16< Ipsilon> aeth: most data is useless. Find some solace in that. 20170920 06:19:58< aeth> Most data is useless and harmless now, but that does not prevent it being used against people later. Equifax is perhaps the most current and realistic example. 20170920 06:20:01< wesnoth-discord-> Vivaldi is not a fork of Firefox, btw 20170920 06:20:07< wesnoth-discord-> It uses webkit 20170920 06:20:11< wesnoth-discord-> Blink. 20170920 06:20:14< Ipsilon> aeth: well no, equifax is the worst case scenario 20170920 06:20:44< Ipsilon> it's probably the worst data anybody can take from you. But hopefully this changes things so that ssns stop being so important 20170920 06:20:47< aeth> Worst case scenario is literally Nazis literally using previously collected data to literally genocide whatever groups they don't like. 20170920 06:20:48< wesnoth-discord-> So it uses Chrome's engine, which is a fork of Webkit which Safari uses 20170920 06:21:01< aeth> Equifax is just the worst case probable scenario. 20170920 06:21:23< wesnoth-discord-> @jyrkive Blink is basically webkit 20170920 06:21:54< wesnoth-discord-> Not any more, really. Blink is technologically significantly above WebKit. 20170920 06:22:38< aeth> They forked a while ago at this point. 20170920 06:22:42< wesnoth-discord-> Some Blink stuff is merged back into WebKit at a much slower pace, which is why Safari tends to fall behind both Chrome and Firefox. 20170920 06:23:02< Ipsilon> I like that firefox android broswer that uses webkit 20170920 06:23:09< Ipsilon> what's it called... 20170920 06:23:28< Ipsilon> firefox focus 20170920 06:43:55< Necrosporus> otherwise, people will just switch to a browser that lets them do what they want // Some users would not abandon firefox if it was without EME from the start but simply use Firefox alongside standalone netflix app. Which would be better outcome for rest 98% of firefox users who dislike DRM or simply don't want increased attack surface, and worse for this 1-2% of firefox users 20170920 06:44:44< aeth> Netflix isn't the only user. 20170920 06:45:24< aeth> e.g. YouTube will probably use that DRM for its premium offerings, if it doesn't already. It has movies (integrated with Android) and now even paid TV shows. 20170920 06:45:58< aeth> Also, there's Hulu, Amazon, HBO, etc. 20170920 06:46:09< aeth> Disney's launching something apparently. 20170920 06:46:26< Necrosporus> Necrosporus: your point is not important to firefox anyway. Since Firefox targets teh lowest common denominator. // But isn't privacy features of firefox only thing which makes it better than chrome? Like being open source, having options to disable DRM, having ability to install good adblocking, not sending every url you visit to google 20170920 06:47:09< Ipsilon> chromium is open source 20170920 06:47:28< Ipsilon> chromium check all the above 20170920 06:47:45-!- vultraz [uid24821@wesnoth/developer/vultraz] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 20170920 06:48:25< aeth> If adblockers seriously threaten the revenue of Google (i.e. if enough people use them), then Google will find some way to shut them down on Chrome and even Chromium. 20170920 06:48:43< zookeeper> i'd certainly like to see what exactly an entity like google could know about me based on currently collected data. 20170920 06:48:56< Ipsilon> that you like zoos 20170920 06:49:28< zookeeper> actually, i rather dislike them 20170920 06:49:31< Ipsilon> aeth: I'm not arguing that chromium is equivalent. Only that the points he brought up are actually not technical superiorities 20170920 06:49:33< zookeeper> funnily enough 20170920 06:49:45< Ipsilon> zookeeper: then gj at fooling google! 20170920 06:49:52< Ipsilon> showed them 20170920 06:49:53< aeth> zookeeper: If recommendations for me are any indication, it's about 60% accurate and 40% false positive, while missing key details that it should be able to pick up but doesn't. 20170920 06:50:50< aeth> Ipsilon: It's a very large point of failure to run an adblocker in a piece of software, FOSS or not, that is from an advertising company that loses revenue to adblockers. 20170920 06:51:28< zookeeper> aeth, and what kind of usage are those figures based on? 20170920 06:51:45< aeth> Ipsilon: Afaik, Chrome still doesn't have add-ons on Android, almost certainly to keep out adblockers (although Firefox Mobile's sole selling point is the ability to install ublock origin on it) 20170920 06:52:15< zookeeper> someone doing all their searching while logged in (wtf, who would do that?), or someone on a VPN in private mode with all sorts of blockers on? or something in the middle? 20170920 06:54:10< aeth> Ipsilon: Anyway, my point is that adblocking on Firefox is not a technical superiority, but it has a much higher probability of being allowed indefinitely than adblocking on Google platforms. 20170920 06:54:54< Ipsilon> fwiw, i do think there are technically superior aspects of firefox 20170920 06:57:09< Necrosporus> chromium check all the above // I have read that not all tracking was stripped from Chrome when it turned into Chromium, there was even something called Iron or not sure which stripped the rest of URL tracking more or less successfully 20170920 06:58:25< Ipsilon> There have been issues here and there with weird chromium inclusions 20170920 06:58:36< Ipsilon> but I think firefox has also had it's share of weird inclusions 20170920 07:09:41< Necrosporus> That's certainly bad 20170920 07:10:13< Necrosporus> And that's the big problem, web is turning from universal document storage into network of obscure proprietary code 20170920 07:24:10-!- vultraz [uid24821@wesnoth/developer/vultraz] has joined #wesnoth 20170920 07:37:28-!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20170920 07:55:53-!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #wesnoth 20170920 08:11:08-!- vladimirslavik [vslavik@nat/redhat/x-gelfjvgjksyzyfmb] has joined #wesnoth 20170920 08:15:57-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has joined #wesnoth 20170920 08:25:06-!- vladimirslavik [vslavik@nat/redhat/x-gelfjvgjksyzyfmb] has quit [Changing host] 20170920 08:25:06-!- vladimirslavik [vslavik@wesnoth/translator/VladimirSlavik] has joined #wesnoth 20170920 08:25:13-!- vladimirslavik [vslavik@wesnoth/translator/VladimirSlavik] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20170920 08:25:30-!- vladimirslavik [vslavik@nat/redhat/x-qlvirxbaxiuceulm] has joined #wesnoth 20170920 08:25:36-!- vladimirslavik [vslavik@nat/redhat/x-qlvirxbaxiuceulm] has quit [Changing host] 20170920 08:25:36-!- vladimirslavik [vslavik@wesnoth/translator/VladimirSlavik] has joined #wesnoth 20170920 08:52:49-!- Kwandulin [~Kwandulin@pD9FD50F1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20170920 08:57:24-!- nore [~ncourant@sas.eleves.ens.fr] has quit [Quit: Je fais un peu de tri] 20170920 08:57:59-!- nore [~ncourant@sas.eleves.ens.fr] has joined #wesnoth 20170920 09:21:37-!- Kwandulin [~Kwandulin@pD9FD50F1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth 20170920 09:50:45-!- vultraz [uid24821@wesnoth/developer/vultraz] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 20170920 10:31:21-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170920 11:29:12-!- Haudegen [~quassel@212-186-77-29.static.upcbusiness.at] has joined #wesnoth 20170920 11:36:16-!- Kwandulin [~Kwandulin@pD9FD50F1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20170920 12:53:12< wesnoth-discord-> What's up guys 20170920 12:54:47< wesnoth-discord-> :bhammer: 20170920 12:55:01< wesnoth-discord-> I like these enojis 20170920 12:55:03< wesnoth-discord-> :run: 20170920 12:55:30< DeFender1031> :colon: 20170920 12:55:45< wesnoth-discord-> Doesn't work that way. :/ 20170920 12:55:58< DeFender1031> What doesn't work what way? 20170920 12:56:14< DeFender1031> I just see a bunch of words surrounded by colons, so I thought I'd join in. 20170920 12:56:35< zookeeper> gross 20170920 12:56:35< DeFender1031> IRC doesn't have none of your millennial, smartphone generation, emoji garbage! 20170920 12:56:53< wesnoth-discord-> Oh. Interesting. 20170920 12:57:07< Necrosporus> DeFender1031, it's great that :colon: doesn't exist, or that would be rather gross picture 20170920 12:57:27< DeFender1031> Necrosporus, would it, though? 20170920 12:57:37< Necrosporus> Actually IRC does support emoji 20170920 12:57:39< wesnoth-discord-> The bot does convert some emoji to corresponding Unicode characters. โค But apparently not all that Discord supports. ๐Ÿ’” 20170920 12:57:53< DeFender1031> Necrosporus, actually, no it doesn't. 20170920 12:58:11< DeFender1031> Necrosporus, perhaps SOME IRC CLIENTS support emoji, but that's different. 20170920 12:58:12< Necrosporus> It would be great if emoji were never introduced to Unicode 20170920 12:58:24< DeFender1031> The protocol itslef has no specific emoji support. 20170920 12:58:28< Necrosporus> But since they are, emoji are supported everywhere where text rendering is supported 20170920 12:58:44< Necrosporus> Of course, which is great 20170920 12:59:24< Necrosporus> DeFender1031, any IRC client supports emoji if you have a font which has them 20170920 12:59:28< Necrosporus> I don't have it though 20170920 13:00:10< DeFender1031> :spaghetti: 20170920 13:00:21< wesnoth-discord-> Hey, that worked. ๐Ÿ˜ƒ 20170920 13:00:32< DeFender1031> I thought it might. 20170920 13:01:04< Necrosporus> nevertheless seeing squres with hex codes such as 01F494 is even more annoying than :colon: :stuff: :which: :is: :at: :least: :somewhat: :readable: 20170920 13:01:27< DeFender1031> Necrosporus, I think I agree. 20170920 13:02:00< Necrosporus> :hate: 20170920 13:04:07< zookeeper> i suggest ล‹ as the colon symbol 20170920 13:04:34< DeFender1031> :see_no_evil: 20170920 13:04:40< zookeeper> couldn't find anything better, sadly 20170920 13:05:36< Necrosporus> But it's phonetical for [n_g] sound like in present progressive verbs 20170920 13:09:59< DeFender1031> zookeeper, "worse", you mean. :P 20170920 13:10:55< zookeeper> nah 20170920 13:23:10< loonycyborg> it actually does map some of the emojis from discord 20170920 13:23:29< wesnoth-discord-> That's what I said. I even demonstrated it. 20170920 13:23:46< loonycyborg> ah yes 20170920 13:23:51< loonycyborg> spoke too soon 20170920 13:23:55< loonycyborg> without fully reading :P 20170920 13:24:02-!- Kwandulin [~Kwandulin@pD9FD50F1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth 20170920 13:42:58-!- Soo_Slow [~devnu11@ppp91-122-23-128.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #wesnoth 20170920 13:53:33-!- DeFender1031 [~DeFender1@93-172-30-106.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit [Quit: I'm not back now.] 20170920 13:59:59-!- vslavik [vslavik@nat/redhat/x-dscoeavwyiqxczqg] has joined #wesnoth 20170920 14:00:05-!- prophile [~alynn@oftn/oswg-member/prophile] has joined #wesnoth 20170920 14:02:27-!- vladimirslavik [vslavik@wesnoth/translator/VladimirSlavik] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20170920 14:02:49-!- vslavik is now known as vladimirslavik 20170920 14:02:56-!- vladimirslavik [vslavik@nat/redhat/x-dscoeavwyiqxczqg] has quit [Changing host] 20170920 14:02:56-!- vladimirslavik [vslavik@wesnoth/translator/VladimirSlavik] has joined #wesnoth 20170920 14:14:03-!- prophile [~alynn@oftn/oswg-member/prophile] has quit [Quit: The Game] 20170920 14:33:40-!- sevu [~Shiki@p54855C26.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth 20170920 14:52:34-!- sevu [~Shiki@p54855C26.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 20170920 15:05:39-!- vslavik [vslavik@nat/redhat/x-hskkxzhrsvybljti] has joined #wesnoth 20170920 15:08:02-!- vladimirslavik [vslavik@wesnoth/translator/VladimirSlavik] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20170920 15:09:31-!- Soo_Slow [~devnu11@ppp91-122-23-128.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru] has quit [Quit: Soo_Slow] 20170920 15:10:42< wesnoth-discord-> Quick quack 20170920 15:10:55< wesnoth-discord-> I'm surrounded by angry dwarves 20170920 15:11:07< wesnoth-discord-> With burner back up 20170920 15:11:10< wesnoth-discord-> Send help 20170920 15:23:11-!- vslavik is now known as VladimirSlavik 20170920 15:23:14-!- VladimirSlavik [vslavik@nat/redhat/x-hskkxzhrsvybljti] has quit [Changing host] 20170920 15:23:14-!- VladimirSlavik [vslavik@wesnoth/translator/VladimirSlavik] has joined #wesnoth 20170920 15:37:01< aeth> Unicode emojis are a way to get every American developer to finally care about Unicode instead of ASCII 20170920 15:37:49< aeth> And it works. 20170920 15:40:13< wesnoth-discord-> Software that only supports pure ASCII is very rare, fortunately. Nearly every language other than English has non-Latin characters. 20170920 15:40:40< aeth> That makes things worse, unless you use Unicode 20170920 15:40:49< aeth> Because now you have to guess at the code page 20170920 15:41:27< aeth> Usually it's one of the 3 or so common European ones because not all common European Latin characters can fit in 8 bits 20170920 15:41:28< wesnoth-discord-> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_hid_the_facts 20170920 15:43:35-!- Haudegen [~quassel@212-186-77-29.static.upcbusiness.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170920 15:46:08-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20170920 15:47:29-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20170920 16:06:41-!- vultraz [uid24821@wesnoth/developer/vultraz] has joined #wesnoth 20170920 16:08:15-!- Kwandulin [~Kwandulin@pD9FD50F1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20170920 16:26:12< wesnoth-discord-> @pydsigner can I release music under CC, and if so, which licenses are available? 20170920 16:26:36< aeth> I wonder who the first person to discover the "Bush hid the facts" bug was. 20170920 16:28:02< aeth> Usually And how. 20170920 16:28:11< aeth> s/Usually // 20170920 16:28:28< aeth> Usually open source projects allow all CC except NC and ND variants. 20170920 16:31:01< wesnoth-discord-> hmmm it'd be nice if I could release with NC though... 20170920 16:32:22< wesnoth-discord-> oh well 20170920 16:33:29< wesnoth-discord-> @Yumi we currently permit every CC license. 20170920 16:35:19< wesnoth-discord-> Mainline content is expected to be BY or BY-SA, however. 20170920 16:35:34< wesnoth-discord-> it's okay this isn't going to be mainline 20170920 16:37:49< wesnoth-discord-> The only real issue with NC is that there was a stupid lawsuit result in Germany where an artist sued over a (in my non-lawyer's opinion) legal use of his music, but if you're the artist that won't be an issue. 20170920 16:38:20< wesnoth-discord-> basically since it's explicitly for free, I don't want people making money off my music 20170920 16:38:29< wesnoth-discord-> for that purpose, I mean 20170920 16:39:18< wesnoth-discord-> I personally don't have a problem with that. 20170920 16:39:52< wesnoth-discord-> how would I do this in the add-on? 20170920 16:40:03< wesnoth-discord-> do I put the license in the folder, then specify the tracks that it's for? 20170920 16:40:24-!- VladimirSlavik [vslavik@wesnoth/translator/VladimirSlavik] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20170920 16:40:54-!- Narrat [~Narrat@p2E5112AC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth 20170920 16:41:06< wesnoth-discord-> So there's a helpful message when you click on the upload button, but that's kinda late in the process .)_.) Let me find it for you 20170920 16:42:05< wesnoth-discord-> reference to that needs to be around pblwml 20170920 16:42:27< wesnoth-discord-> eh I won't have these scenarios done for another week+ so no hurry 20170920 16:45:12< wesnoth-discord-> @Yumi 20170920 16:45:13< wesnoth-discord-> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/231976805987385345/360104119072980994/unknown.png 20170920 16:45:33< wesnoth-discord-> @shadowm thank you 20170920 16:46:22< wesnoth-discord-> okay ty 20170920 16:47:37< wesnoth-discord-> @Ravana yeah the whole approval process wore me out so I never produced a wiki page 20170920 16:49:30< wesnoth-discord-> The forum post on add-on rules needs updating as well IIRC 20170920 17:00:13-!- sevu [~Shiki@p54855C26.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth 20170920 17:02:47< wesnoth-discord-> Oh nope, that was addressed. 20170920 17:07:16-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has joined #wesnoth 20170920 17:22:05-!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20170920 17:34:57-!- Bhoren [~Bhoren_wh@2a01:e0a:c:2150:1dd2:f0c5:ef69:55ff] has joined #wesnoth 20170920 17:58:32-!- Kranix [~magnus@xd520f683.cust.hiper.dk] has joined #wesnoth 20170920 18:30:24-!- claymore [~claymore@unaffiliated/claymore] has joined #wesnoth 20170920 18:36:40-!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #wesnoth 20170920 18:38:47-!- Ivanovic [~ivanovic@wesnoth/developer/ivanovic] has quit [Quit: Caught sigterm, terminating...] 20170920 19:13:14-!- Bhoren [~Bhoren_wh@2a01:e0a:c:2150:1dd2:f0c5:ef69:55ff] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20170920 19:55:32< wesnoth-discord-> https://jacquesmattheij.com/the-web-in-2050 20170920 20:18:43-!- sigurdfd [~SigurdFD@dynamic-acs-72-23-110-196.zoominternet.net] has joined #wesnoth 20170920 20:58:23-!- ToBeCloud [uid51591@wikimedia/ToBeFree] has joined #wesnoth 20170920 21:01:38-!- Kranix [~magnus@xd520f683.cust.hiper.dk] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 20170920 21:11:47-!- claymore [~claymore@unaffiliated/claymore] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20170920 21:28:02-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20170920 22:18:00-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170920 22:18:07-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20170920 22:47:37-!- sevu [~Shiki@p54855C26.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20170920 23:06:20-!- vultraz [uid24821@wesnoth/developer/vultraz] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 20170920 23:07:43-!- ToBeCloud [uid51591@wikimedia/ToBeFree] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 20170920 23:32:46-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] --- Log closed Thu Sep 21 00:00:04 2017