--- Log opened Sun Oct 01 00:00:17 2017 20171001 00:02:49-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has joined #wesnoth 20171001 00:06:41-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20171001 00:39:47-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20171001 00:39:54-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20171001 00:51:47-!- Appleman1234_ [~quassel@124x38x163x22.ap124.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20171001 00:53:22-!- Appleman1234 [~quassel@124x38x163x22.ap124.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #wesnoth 20171001 01:53:16-!- sevu [~Shiki@p54854055.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth 20171001 02:03:22-!- sigurdfd [~SigurdFD@dynamic-acs-72-23-110-196.zoominternet.net] has joined #wesnoth 20171001 02:12:52-!- ArneBab_ [~quassel@freenet/developer/arnebab] has joined #wesnoth 20171001 02:16:58-!- ArneBab [~quassel@freenet/developer/arnebab] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20171001 03:04:07-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20171001 03:07:58-!- shiki [~Shiki@p5485660E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth 20171001 03:07:58-!- sevu [~Shiki@p54854055.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Disconnected by services] 20171001 03:14:25-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has joined #wesnoth 20171001 03:18:37< wesnoth-discord-> found wesnoth is more like a game gonna take ages to play 20171001 03:18:41< wesnoth-discord-> 🙃 20171001 03:19:01< wesnoth-discord-> first time I touch it was like 7 years ago 20171001 03:19:13-!- celmin [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has joined #wesnoth 20171001 03:19:13-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has quit [Disconnected by services] 20171001 03:19:14-!- celmin is now known as celticminstrel 20171001 03:19:15< wesnoth-discord-> so many changes since that day till now 20171001 03:35:09-!- vultraz [uid24821@wesnoth/developer/vultraz] has joined #wesnoth 20171001 03:36:08-!- Narrat [~Narrat@p2E5112AC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance.] 20171001 04:05:28-!- shiki [~Shiki@p5485660E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 20171001 04:24:54-!- sigurdfd [~SigurdFD@dynamic-acs-72-23-110-196.zoominternet.net] has quit [] 20171001 04:30:58-!- APic [apic@apic.name] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20171001 04:43:56-!- APic [apic@apic.name] has joined #wesnoth 20171001 05:13:02-!- Necrosporus [~Necrospor@unaffiliated/necrosporus] has joined #wesnoth 20171001 05:31:13-!- Blukunfando [~bkf@82.red-176-83-181.dynamicip.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20171001 05:38:49-!- Blukunfando [~bkf@59.red-80-58-131.staticip.rima-tde.net] has joined #wesnoth 20171001 05:43:13< wesnoth-discord-> Has anyone completed all campaigns ? 20171001 05:43:53< celticminstrel> I'll never complete all the campaigns, probably. 20171001 05:44:34< wesnoth-discord-> If we added an achievement for completing all the campaigns, I bet people would 20171001 05:44:34< wesnoth-discord-> 😛 20171001 05:44:50< celticminstrel> I probably wouldn't. 20171001 05:45:06< wesnoth-discord-> I don't think that would suffice to make me endure NR again, or the last three scenarios of SoF. 20171001 05:45:24< celticminstrel> I have objections to DiD. 20171001 05:45:39< wesnoth-discord-> Oh I don't. 20171001 05:45:47< wesnoth-discord-> Everyone knows that my opinion of DiD is. 20171001 05:46:07< wesnoth-discord-> The first one is that the devs are liars and there's no canon ending. 20171001 05:47:52< wesnoth-discord-> @shadowm "devs are liars" why ? 20171001 05:48:11< Necrosporus> DiD is an infinite campaign 20171001 05:48:17< wesnoth-discord-> The only way to "complete" the campaign is to lose (after a number of iterations). 20171001 05:48:28< Necrosporus> And what if you don't lose? 20171001 05:48:36< wesnoth-discord-> Then you never complete the campaign. 20171001 05:49:02< Necrosporus> Are there scenarios where player is meant to lose to advance to next scenario 20171001 05:49:09< wesnoth-discord-> Yes. 20171001 05:49:10< celticminstrel> I don't care if there's a canon ending or not, but that final campaign is just terrible. 20171001 05:49:13< celticminstrel> ^final scenario 20171001 05:49:28< wesnoth-discord-> There's one other scenario in mainline where losing is the only option. 20171001 05:49:41< celticminstrel> You could get the same result (no true ending) by turning that scenario into a cutscene. 20171001 05:49:47< wesnoth-discord-> I've never played it, since it's part of the bullcrap branch of TSG. 20171001 05:49:49< Necrosporus> In what campaign? 20171001 05:50:03< Necrosporus> Ah, TSG 20171001 05:50:13< wesnoth-discord-> The thing that nobody gets is that DiD predates the laurels. 20171001 05:50:18< Necrosporus> You need to side with bndits 20171001 05:50:30< wesnoth-discord-> There wasn't anything tracking campaign completion back when DiD was written and then added to mainline. 20171001 05:50:33< wesnoth-discord-> What's the difference between Mage and Dark Adept ? 20171001 05:50:34< Necrosporus> I didn't try it recently 20171001 05:50:46< wesnoth-discord-> That's also why IftU S2 has some... issues. 20171001 05:50:53< Necrosporus> Mage is shooting fireballs, adept is shooting iceballs (chill waves) 20171001 05:51:02< Necrosporus> Also Dark Adept is cooler 20171001 05:51:11< wesnoth-discord-> IftU E2 I mean. 20171001 05:51:18< wesnoth-discord-> @irc-bridge 🙃 20171001 05:51:32< Polsaker> dark adept has no melee 20171001 05:51:37< celticminstrel> @Adcock it's pointless to ping irc-bridge. 20171001 05:51:48< wesnoth-discord-> @Adcock irc-bridge is just a bot 20171001 05:51:48< Necrosporus> Polsaker, yeah, only one unit in mainline without melee 20171001 05:51:49< celticminstrel> Ping the actual speaker instead. In my case, "celticminstrel". 20171001 05:52:01< celticminstrel> You don't need an @-sign either. 20171001 05:52:01< wesnoth-discord-> Can I get a Dark Adept on my side in Heir to the throne. 20171001 05:52:11< celticminstrel> No. 20171001 05:52:16< Necrosporus> Use debug mode 20171001 05:52:22< Necrosporus> And you can even get an ancient lich 20171001 05:52:24< celticminstrel> Well true. 20171001 05:52:28< celticminstrel> But that's cheating. :P 20171001 05:52:37< wesnoth-discord-> Winners don't use :debug. 20171001 05:52:42< Necrosporus> What if you kill a mage and create a dark adept? 20171001 05:52:45< Polsaker> I love the laugh of the ulfserkr when hitting a dark adept :D 20171001 05:53:08< Necrosporus> And disable debug after that 20171001 05:53:16< Necrosporus> Or there is advance wml command 20171001 05:53:18< wesnoth-discord-> @Pentarctagon I didn't know. Sorry. 20171001 05:53:24< Necrosporus> perhaps it can be invoked from debug mode 20171001 05:53:32< Necrosporus> So you can advance a mage to DA 20171001 05:54:03< wesnoth-discord-> @Pentarctagon Can I get a Dark Adept on my side in Heir to the throne ? 20171001 05:54:13< wesnoth-discord-> I have no idea 20171001 05:54:26< Necrosporus> I did answer this question 20171001 05:54:42< Necrosporus> You can if you use lua console 20171001 05:54:45< wesnoth-discord-> Where can I ? 20171001 05:54:52< Necrosporus> DiD, SotA 20171001 05:55:25< Necrosporus> perhaps also Liberty or NR 20171001 05:56:03< Necrosporus> In SotA you start as dark adeptess 20171001 05:56:17< Necrosporus> (how do you say female^Adept in English?) 20171001 05:56:27< wesnoth-discord-> Adept. 20171001 05:57:49< celticminstrel> Necrosporus: The debug advance command only advances it to what it would normally advance to. 20171001 05:57:53< celticminstrel> So no, you can't do that. 20171001 05:58:15< Necrosporus> celticminstrel, there is [advance] to any unit 20171001 05:58:22< celticminstrel> Not in debug commands. 20171001 05:58:22< Necrosporus> in WML at least 20171001 05:58:40< Necrosporus> anything doable in WML is also doable in debug using Lua console, I thought 20171001 05:58:42< Necrosporus> ~ 20171001 05:58:57< celticminstrel> The debug command is ":unit advances=n" where n is the number of times it should advance. 20171001 05:59:13< Necrosporus> There is also lua console command, isn't it? 20171001 05:59:20< celticminstrel> Well yes, you can use the Lua console (or the :lua debug command) but I wouldn't really count that. 20171001 06:00:11< Necrosporus> What is advantage to use advance instead of killing and recreating a unit? 20171001 06:00:21< celticminstrel> Retaining traits. 20171001 06:00:33< wesnoth-discord-> You could also probably make a WML modification to allow Mage -> Dark Adept fairly easily. 20171001 06:00:50< Necrosporus> You can retain it by specifying traits to be equal to old ones? 20171001 06:01:08< celticminstrel> Not with debug commands. :P 20171001 06:01:16< celticminstrel> Again, Lua doesn't really count here. 20171001 06:02:12< Necrosporus> What is used to turn unit to walking corpse when it's killed with plague, [advance] or [kill] + create_unit ? 20171001 06:02:29< wesnoth-discord-> C++. 20171001 06:02:41< celticminstrel> Neither. 20171001 06:02:44< wesnoth-discord-> It's handled internally by the implementation of the plague weapon special, so the answer is none of the above. 20171001 06:03:11< celticminstrel> It's probably closer to kill + create unit, though. 20171001 06:04:10-!- celticminstrel is now known as celmin|sleep 20171001 06:19:36< Necrosporus> In SotA https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/blob/master/data/campaigns/Secrets_of_the_Ancients/utils/sota-utils.cfg#L203 unit is advanced into corpse instead of being recreated 20171001 06:22:22< Necrosporus> If you want a custom plague-like ability, which turns units into vampire unit variations correspondent to their races, would it be possible? 20171001 06:22:56< Necrosporus> You can use plague with custom unit, but will you get variations like for corpses? 20171001 06:25:35< wesnoth-discord-> You could have the vampire unit set a variable on the unit being attacked on hit, then use that to turn them in a die event. 20171001 06:26:20< wesnoth-discord-> maybe have some sort of dummy weapon special so players know that's a thing that happens 20171001 06:33:13< wesnoth-discord-> anyone up for mp 20171001 06:33:26< wesnoth-discord-> wait 20171001 06:33:31< wesnoth-discord-> @Vultraz u play dopa? 20171001 06:33:55< wesnoth-discord-> yo i am a mean gyrocopter, terrorblade, lion, dazzle, or arc warden 20171001 06:34:20-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth 20171001 06:38:12< wesnoth-discord-> yup i do 20171001 06:39:27-!- Smedles [~quassel@CPE-58-175-78-29.dqzk1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20171001 06:42:57-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has quit [Quit: mattsc] 20171001 06:43:14-!- Smedles [~quassel@CPE-58-175-78-29.dqzk1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has joined #wesnoth 20171001 06:45:17-!- Smedles [~quassel@CPE-58-175-78-29.dqzk1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20171001 06:47:04-!- Smedles [~quassel@CPE-58-175-78-29.dqzk1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has joined #wesnoth 20171001 07:02:49< wesnoth-discord-> ok 20171001 07:02:58< wesnoth-discord-> whats ur steam name 20171001 07:03:26< wesnoth-discord-> rip 20171001 07:07:37-!- Smedles [~quassel@CPE-58-175-78-29.dqzk1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20171001 07:08:02< wesnoth-discord-> I think the zombies are incomplete 20171001 07:08:12< wesnoth-discord-> you literally turn anything not a bat flying into a drake 20171001 07:08:16< wesnoth-discord-> like gryphoon 20171001 07:08:26< wesnoth-discord-> plague it with zombie it still become a drake zombie 20171001 07:15:53-!- Smedles [~quassel@CPE-58-175-78-29.dqzk1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has joined #wesnoth 20171001 07:17:45-!- Smedles [~quassel@CPE-58-175-78-29.dqzk1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20171001 07:18:15-!- Smedles [~quassel@CPE-58-175-78-29.dqzk1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has joined #wesnoth 20171001 07:32:29< galegosimpatico> I agree, but being positive there is already a truckload of zombified races. If a big enough artist time was available, that applied to Naga too, and many others. 20171001 07:36:56< galegosimpatico> If it was my game, I would not zombify any animals (wolves, eagles, gryphons, water serpents) and I would only zombify the cavalry warrior in the case of mounted, no matter if gryphon rider, horse rider, or wolf rider etc. 20171001 07:42:51< galegosimpatico> De facto setting an abstraction level that applied not only to code but to artists too, with a clear baseline of major races zombification, then minor races zombification (Naga notably), finally animal and mountde units zombification (case of gryphon rider and elephant calvary). 20171001 07:48:31< wesnoth-discord-> yeah need more artworks 20171001 08:12:56-!- Kwandulin [~Kwandulin@pD9FD50F1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth 20171001 08:57:46-!- Bhoren [~Bhoren_wh@2a01:e0a:c:2150:b1c5:78ab:38b8:bf4a] has joined #wesnoth 20171001 09:24:17-!- Smedles [~quassel@CPE-58-175-78-29.dqzk1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20171001 09:25:28-!- Smedles [~quassel@CPE-58-175-78-29.dqzk1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has joined #wesnoth 20171001 09:31:16-!- Bhoren [~Bhoren_wh@2a01:e0a:c:2150:b1c5:78ab:38b8:bf4a] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20171001 09:32:48-!- Kranix [~magnus@188-182-184-38-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has joined #wesnoth 20171001 09:42:44-!- vultraz [uid24821@wesnoth/developer/vultraz] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 20171001 10:03:05-!- Appleman1234 [~quassel@124x38x163x22.ap124.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20171001 10:26:48-!- Appleman1234 [~quassel@124x38x163x22.ap124.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #wesnoth 20171001 10:42:09-!- Appleman1234 [~quassel@124x38x163x22.ap124.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20171001 10:43:28-!- Appleman1234 [~quassel@124x38x163x22.ap124.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #wesnoth 20171001 11:16:43-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has joined #wesnoth 20171001 11:31:23< Ravana_> If you want a custom plague-like ability, which turns units into vampire unit variations correspondent to their races, would it be possible? 20171001 11:31:27< Ravana_> khthon does that 20171001 11:39:11-!- Ivanovic [~ivanovic@wesnoth/developer/ivanovic] has quit [Quit: Caught sigterm, terminating...] 20171001 11:39:34-!- Ivanovic [~ivanovic@p579FB4C7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth 20171001 11:39:36-!- Ivanovic [~ivanovic@p579FB4C7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Changing host] 20171001 11:39:36-!- Ivanovic [~ivanovic@wesnoth/developer/ivanovic] has joined #wesnoth 20171001 12:46:33-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has joined #wesnoth 20171001 12:50:08-!- Kwandulin [~Kwandulin@pD9FD50F1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20171001 13:37:23-!- synthpopisback [~synthpopi@2606:a000:7947:5000:6011:b44a:3c39:8e66] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20171001 13:38:13-!- synthpopisback [~synthpopi@2606:a000:7947:5000:e8e6:4b8:c005:787] has joined #wesnoth 20171001 14:12:37-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20171001 14:12:43-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20171001 14:39:06-!- Kwandulin [~Kwandulin@pD9FD50F1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth 20171001 15:09:09-!- sevu [~Shiki@p5485660E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth 20171001 15:27:15< wesnoth-discord-> <ŅĶÐąÐŊ> what if u add the vampire "race/ troop type? with a new campaign 20171001 15:35:22< celmin|sleep> There's a core macro for that, @Necrosporus. 20171001 15:35:42< celmin|sleep> {PLAGUE vampire} 20171001 15:35:47-!- celmin|sleep is now known as celticminstrel 20171001 15:43:34< Necrosporus> And it will work with variations? 20171001 15:49:37< celticminstrel> I assume so. 20171001 15:50:49< sevu> the "vampire" unit type would need different variations, if it doesn't has then they all become the default vampire 20171001 15:50:55< celticminstrel> Yeah, that. 20171001 15:53:56< Necrosporus> But how would it be determined which variation of vampire unit becomes? If by undead_variation then you won't be able to use custom criteria, for example make your vampire with same level as plagued unit 20171001 15:54:22< celticminstrel> Yeah, it'd use undead_variation. 20171001 15:55:59< wesnoth-discord-> Scenario 9 - The Valley of Death. Need Help. Difficulty hard. 20171001 15:56:42< Necrosporus> Everyone needs help with that 20171001 15:57:11< Necrosporus> I'd recommend to rush everybody against one lich, while sending small killing parties to others 20171001 15:59:57< wesnoth-discord-> Noted. 20171001 16:01:35< Necrosporus> That's one scenario which is almost impossible to win without losses 20171001 16:01:58< Necrosporus> though they could be reduced significally 20171001 16:05:35< wesnoth-discord-> is that a multiplayer scenario? 20171001 16:07:18-!- sevu [~Shiki@p5485660E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20171001 16:10:56< Necrosporus> No 20171001 16:24:27-!- vultraz [uid24821@wesnoth/developer/vultraz] has joined #wesnoth 20171001 16:29:12-!- Narrat [~Narrat@p2E5112AC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth 20171001 16:43:24-!- Kwandulin [~Kwandulin@pD9FD50F1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20171001 16:44:39< DeFender1031> "undead_variation" seems to be a legacy name, as it actually means "variation to use when using the ability, whose name is also not all-inclusive of what it can do, which replaces a killed unit with a specific unit type and variation" 20171001 16:48:04< celticminstrel> ? 20171001 16:51:44< DeFender1031> what I mean is, the name "undead_variation" doesn't HAVE to apply to undead. If you have some other custom unit that has the "transform killed units into something else on your side" ability, then it still uses it, despite that unit not necessarily being undead. Likewise, the ability name "plague" doesn't have to refer to a plague-like move. 20171001 16:55:25< celticminstrel> Ah, I get what you mean. 20171001 17:06:52-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20171001 17:06:59-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20171001 17:09:24< DeFender1031> Like... Someone could use the engine to make a set of star trek units, and *30 year later spoiler warning* the borg would have an "assimilate" attack, which is not a "plague" as such, that turns units into borg, who are not "undead" as such. 20171001 17:10:12< DeFender1031> Oooh, now I want to see someone use the engine to make star trek units. (Though I suppose there'd be no way in hell that'd be legal.) 20171001 17:10:25< DeFender1031> Or rather, legal to distribute. 20171001 17:11:59< celticminstrel> Heh. 20171001 17:19:30< loonycyborg> actually I don't think it's meant to be illegal even, to make your work in someone's else continuity 20171001 17:19:42< loonycyborg> but it's for sure isn't nice to do so without coordinating with them 20171001 17:20:23< DeFender1031> then explain why there are no LotR add-ons for wesnoth. 20171001 17:21:04< DeFender1031> It was my understanding that the had been a coupl but were C&D'd very quickly 20171001 17:22:04< wesnoth-discord-> Legality of fan fiction is a controversial subject: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fan_fiction#Legality 20171001 17:23:17< loonycyborg> and my own opinion that a fan work can't even be considered a derivative work unless it's direct transcription of source material in some way 20171001 17:23:37< loonycyborg> just reusing characters and concepts is not enough 20171001 17:23:39< DeFender1031> Truth is, trek very rarely sues anyone over fan works. 20171001 17:24:00< DeFender1031> I recall one suit about a year ago, which they dropped. 20171001 17:24:41< loonycyborg> but on the other hand 20171001 17:24:54< loonycyborg> calling something star trek can be considered trademark infringement 20171001 17:27:04< DeFender1031> fine. someone make a "stellar journey" add-on then. :P 20171001 17:28:21< celticminstrel> It depends on what the fanfiction is of. 20171001 17:28:40< celticminstrel> IIRC LoTR has been particular persistent in going after infringers. 20171001 17:28:40< DeFender1031> with "stellarplatoon", and "blorg", and "klingwraps", and "kardashians", and "bjorn-ans"! 20171001 17:28:50< celticminstrel> Whereas some other things may not be. 20171001 17:41:01-!- Kwandulin [~Kwandulin@pD9FD50F1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth 20171001 17:44:13< wesnoth-discord-> Star Trek had a rather recent lawsuit going over Axanar, actually 20171001 17:44:43< wesnoth-discord-> IIRC they released a set of rules for fan-made content though 20171001 17:50:17< Necrosporus> DeFender1031, LoTR addon do exist, but it seems that wesnoth addon server moders do not let them in 20171001 17:50:43< zookeeper> DeFender1031, umm, no, no one has ever C&D's any wesnoth add-ons. 20171001 17:51:02< zookeeper> of course wesnoth add-ons would not be even remotely close to any major IP holder's radar. 20171001 17:55:30< wesnoth-discord-> Add-ons using other people's intellectual property are generally not allowed. The add-ons server rules #1-3 cover that. 20171001 18:00:10< Necrosporus> There is no link to rules https://addons.wesnoth.org/ 20171001 18:03:44< Ravana_> that page doesn't allow uploads either 20171001 18:06:47< Necrosporus> but it's not obvious where to find those rules 20171001 18:19:05< wesnoth-discord-> Actually, nowhere does it mention the add-ons server rules, I don't think. I don't see them mentioned anywhere in Wesnoth add-ons manager, and the message when uploading only mentions the licensing restrictions. 20171001 18:21:04< loonycyborg> isn't it the same thing? 20171001 18:22:25< wesnoth-discord-> No. 20171001 18:22:49< wesnoth-discord-> The add-ons server rules for licensing is covered by #1-3, but there are 10 rules. 20171001 18:23:12< wesnoth-discord-> +an 11th for the stable version 20171001 18:23:15< wesnoth-discord-> https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=24320 20171001 18:24:02< wesnoth-discord-> Admittedly, they are all rather loosely enforced at the moment, but they are there. 20171001 18:24:49-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20171001 18:25:26< Ravana_> 5, 6, 9 could be automatically enforced 20171001 18:26:09< wesnoth-discord-> 9 is automatically enforced, in that the server won't accept any add-ons larger. 20171001 18:26:28< Ravana_> 5 and 9 are needed as guidelines, but not sure that explicitly saying 6 is needed 20171001 18:28:19< celticminstrel> Isn't 4 also automatically enforceable? 20171001 18:28:23< Necrosporus> So would a lotr addon violate 3 if it uses original art and texts? 20171001 18:28:31< wesnoth-discord-> I don't know the origins of 6. I assume there was an issue with people using tons of colors in various fields. 20171001 18:28:49< Ravana_> its basically impossible to validate email without actually sending to it 20171001 18:29:13< celticminstrel> Okay, but you can at least verify that the fields have been filled in. 20171001 18:30:55< wesnoth-discord-> IIRC there's no validation done on the email field, except maybe that it's filled in with something. I do know you don't even need to have an @ symbol in there though. 20171001 18:33:03< Necrosporus> > This means more than stating it in the add-on's description. // Why? 20171001 18:33:16< wesnoth-discord-> Necrosporus: yes that's correct. I doubt those would be either GPL or CC, and the person uploading obviously can't give that permission. 20171001 18:33:59< Ravana_> > every player will see 20171001 18:34:13< wesnoth-discord-> To make sure every will always see it 20171001 18:34:36< wesnoth-discord-> All it really would have to be is a warning [message] at the very start, or something similar. 20171001 18:34:49< Necrosporus> Perhaps it should be stated in the post 20171001 18:35:13< Necrosporus> Are there any addons with anything above pg13? 20171001 18:35:23< wesnoth-discord-> no idea 20171001 18:36:08< wesnoth-discord-> there's no field or anything for that to be stated, and nobody is going around actively trying to police the add-ons server, at least as far as I know. 20171001 18:36:23< DeFender1031> zookeeper, afraid of the tolkien estate doing so then, given their record. 20171001 18:36:53< Necrosporus> > Racist, inflammatory, and other objectionable material will be removed from the server // But it could be a point of whole plot. For example many humans hate orcs and elves could be rasist to humans 20171001 18:37:08< zookeeper> that's why the rule exists, yes. 20171001 18:39:47-!- Kranix [~magnus@188-182-184-38-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 20171001 18:42:24-!- Soo_Slow [~devnu11@178.71.119.199] has joined #wesnoth 20171001 18:42:28< wesnoth-discord-> that seems a little vague then. I'd assumed it meant only things like if someone uploaded a concentration camp add-on or something like that. 20171001 18:42:36-!- Kwandulin [~Kwandulin@pD9FD50F1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20171001 18:43:40< wesnoth-discord-> Likewise, I'd also interpret such a rule to mean that the add-on itself isn't allowed to send a racist policital message. 20171001 18:44:41-!- Soo_Slow [~devnu11@178.71.119.199] has quit [Client Quit] 20171001 18:45:29-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has joined #wesnoth 20171001 18:47:50< Necrosporus> What if an addon would be about orcs escaping from wesnothian concentration camp? 20171001 18:47:58< Necrosporus> or elvish 20171001 18:48:32< celticminstrel> I'd be extremely leery of any depiction of concentration camps TBH. 20171001 18:48:44< celticminstrel> It can be done well, sure. 20171001 18:48:52< celticminstrel> But I'd be quite wary of it. 20171001 18:50:27< zookeeper> well, NR starts off in a forced labour camp, so there's that. 20171001 18:54:50< wesnoth-discord-> It's kind of hard to say point blank "no racist content at all" when basically any sort of inter-species enmity can be portrayed as racism. Also then NR seems like it contradicts that too. Technically speaking you can say it's not an add-on, but... that's not an argument I'd back. 20171001 18:55:59< wesnoth-discord-> An add-on that has orcs attacking elves just because they hate elves - that doesn't seem like the sort of thing that should be taken down. 20171001 18:56:12< wesnoth-discord-> It's a pretty common trope, in fact. 20171001 18:56:49< zookeeper> none of this should even need to be spelled out, but i guess it's good that someone does. 20171001 18:57:57< Necrosporus> I guees a WW-II add-on could be made too, since there are many games about WW-II already 20171001 18:58:16< celticminstrel> IIRC there's already a WWI addon. 20171001 18:58:36< celticminstrel> At least, I think it's WWI. 20171001 18:59:15< wesnoth-discord-> For 8 then, how about: Add-ons portraying racist, inflammatory, and other objectionable material in a positive light will be removed from the server and possibly result in the removal of usage privileges. This applies both to content based on real world people and events as well as those occurring in a purely fictional setting. 20171001 18:59:41< wesnoth-discord-> Sounds good to me. 😃 20171001 19:01:48< wesnoth-discord-> Alright, updated. Necrosporus: I also added the clarification to rule 7. 20171001 19:03:29< Necrosporus> I'm not sure about the fiction part 20171001 19:03:41< Necrosporus> Some people want to play for evil 20171001 19:03:47< Necrosporus> Why not allow that? 20171001 19:05:07< zookeeper> there's racism towards orcs depicted in a positive light all over the place. heck, the campaign description of SotBE is using a racial slur against elves and is meant to be funny! 20171001 19:05:46< wesnoth-discord-> ugh 20171001 19:07:13< wesnoth-discord-> so then it should only apply to real world based content? It's kind of hard to say no to fictional content then, if mainline even contains some of it. 20171001 19:08:17< Necrosporus> Only if it is actually meant to offend RL people 20171001 19:09:32< Necrosporus> wose-born allies? 20171001 19:12:24< wesnoth-discord-> I'm not sure how "wose-born allies" is an insult, actually. 20171001 19:12:51< zookeeper> it's an invalidation of their heritage? 20171001 19:12:55< zookeeper> sounds pretty bad to me. 20171001 19:13:46< Necrosporus> human-worms also 20171001 19:14:02< wesnoth-discord-> human-worms sounds more like a normal insult 20171001 19:14:37< zookeeper> well it's comparing humans to an animal, so that's kind of classical racism. 20171001 19:15:06< zookeeper> or, rather, associating with 20171001 19:18:49< wesnoth-discord-> I could just change it to say "may be removed" rather than "will be removed". Otherwise we could probably keep going for a week straight about individual edge cases. 20171001 19:19:17< wesnoth-discord-> It'd give some wiggle room to judge things on an individual basis if they get reported. 20171001 19:19:18< Necrosporus> Do topless humanoid females fall under 7 if they are coming from culture where going like that is socially acceptable? 20171001 19:19:59< Necrosporus> That sounds better 20171001 19:21:56< wesnoth-discord-> I don't think the culture they are coming from is the ultimate standard of that sort of thing. The goal is to have some sort of way for people in general to know if an add-on contains that sort of content. I haven't read them, but I'm pretty sure ESRB T and PG-13 have that spelled out. 20171001 19:23:51< wesnoth-discord-> There's just no way to be universally accommodating to a person from any culture in the world who might happen to download wesnoth and start browsing add-ons. 20171001 19:23:58< zookeeper> or we could come up with a wording that's actually about what we want to avoid, which is not "depictions of bad things" but more like "content promoting needlessly provocative political or ideological content" or something like that. 20171001 19:25:16< zookeeper> that it's always up to personal admin decision is obvious, because you can't make explicit rules for that stuff. everyone knows that. that's why you don't write rules to give the impression that there are explicit rules you can write an algorithm for. 20171001 19:28:46< wesnoth-discord-> How about: Add-ons promoting excessively inflammatory political or ideological content will be removed from the server 20171001 19:29:53< wesnoth-discord-> I say "excessively", because pretty much all political and-or ideological content can be inflammatory. 20171001 19:30:00< Necrosporus> I thought "will be removed" you wanted to replace with might be removed, but this sounds better 20171001 19:30:36< zookeeper> sure. or maybe "can be" because it's so vague to begin with. 20171001 19:30:57< Necrosporus> Overall addon server rules are meant (or should be meant) for maximum benefit of players 20171001 19:31:07< wesnoth-discord-> "excessively" I think is good enough. We have pretty much free reign to decide what excessively means. 20171001 19:31:12< zookeeper> sure. 20171001 19:31:20< zookeeper> excessively or needlessly 20171001 19:32:14< zookeeper> as for "will be" vs "can be", i think it's not a good idea to mix a vague definition with "will be". if you have a vague definition, then better go with "can be". 20171001 19:32:55-!- claymore [~claymore@unaffiliated/claymore] has joined #wesnoth 20171001 19:33:33< wesnoth-discord-> I don't really like the double-vagueness though. It makes it possible to read like we could say an add-on is "excessively inflammatory", but we might not remove it anyway. 20171001 19:33:55< Necrosporus> As player I would like add-ons to 1) not cause technical problems, 2) More or less match their definition, 3) Should either add some value to gaming experience or be marked clearly if they don't 20171001 19:34:34< zookeeper> that's better than being able to read it as an add-on definitely getting removed because of something completely subjective. 20171001 19:35:43< zookeeper> it's not like anyone feels less secure knowing that their add-on just _might_ be removed because of a subjective decision, as opposed to _maybe_ being removed 20171001 19:35:50< zookeeper> err 20171001 19:35:59< zookeeper> s/_maybe_/_will_ 20171001 19:36:35< Necrosporus> I guess as a rule of thumb, addon with title mentioning current political figures should be removed. 20171001 19:38:30< wesnoth-discord-> It would depend on if they manage to be reasonable about it or not. 20171001 19:38:50< wesnoth-discord-> Such a rule of thumb fails to account for many possible add-ons that still would likely be removed. 20171001 19:38:57< wesnoth-discord-> We're not going to remove an add-on just because it has "Trump" in the same. 20171001 19:39:01< wesnoth-discord-> or "Clinton" 20171001 19:39:07< wesnoth-discord-> Such as if the player is set to control a police force and kill all black people in the map. 20171001 19:39:34< wesnoth-discord-> admittedly anyone making such an add-on would likely end up getting it removed for other reasons, but that's a different point. 20171001 19:40:48< wesnoth-discord-> If someone does, miraculously manage to make a reason add-on on such a topic, there wouldn't be a reason to automatically take it down anyway. 20171001 19:41:16< wesnoth-discord-> Unless we want a new rule stating no content is allowed involving current political figures. 20171001 19:41:57< zookeeper> that could rule out some fun MP scenarios :p 20171001 19:42:11< wesnoth-discord-> that too lol 20171001 19:43:16< wesnoth-discord-> ie: something like this: https://i.redd.it/8wctpkdsqrzy.jpg 20171001 19:44:15< wesnoth-discord-> I can't think of a reason to make a rule banning something like that. 20171001 19:44:53< zookeeper> i can't imagine you holding onto that in case of all public figures 20171001 19:45:17< wesnoth-discord-> ? 20171001 19:45:49< wesnoth-discord-> What is going on here? 20171001 19:46:19< wesnoth-discord-> we're discussing clarifications for the add-ons server rule about racism. 20171001 19:46:27< wesnoth-discord-> zookeeper: also, updated to say "may be removed" 20171001 19:48:40< zookeeper> i've just been commenting, i don't know why you feel the need to tweak the rules. 20171001 19:49:40< Necrosporus> Could we do something about opening addon manager causing wesnoth to flood console with warnings/errors? 20171001 19:50:18< wesnoth-discord-> Because people, myself included, were making different assumptions about what the rule meant. That's not a good thing. 20171001 19:50:24< Necrosporus> I mean, for example fix easily fixable mistakes in addon icon for example? 20171001 19:50:52< wesnoth-discord-> Necrosporus: uh, the add-on author sets the icon... 20171001 19:51:11< Necrosporus> Right, but it could be edited by server admins 20171001 19:51:15< wesnoth-discord-> We have no way to automatically fix the problem for third-party add-ons. 20171001 19:51:28< wesnoth-discord-> And then the user would upload it again, and it would be unfixed. 20171001 19:51:49< Necrosporus> They could have their icon be automatically replaced by existing but generic icon such as questionmark 20171001 19:52:15< wesnoth-discord-> If it's going to automatically enforced, then the add-on should just be rejected outright. 20171001 19:52:25< Necrosporus> or that 20171001 19:52:42< wesnoth-discord-> No reason to wait for them to notice it themselves, then ask about it on the forums/here/IRC/etc 20171001 19:52:46< Necrosporus> Why not to reject icon which doesn't resolve in wesnoth core 20171001 19:53:33< wesnoth-discord-> I don't know why it doesn't currently do that, other than just no one's coded it to. 20171001 19:54:18< Necrosporus> OK, 1.13 addon manager doesn't spit any spirituos errors now 20171001 19:54:55< Necrosporus> almost 20171001 19:57:21< wesnoth-discord-> If you scroll down the list of add-ons, you will get a line in the error log about images it can't resolve. 20171001 19:58:19< Necrosporus> In 1.12 I see a lot of mismatched parenthesis blit errors 20171001 19:58:44< Necrosporus> In 1.13? No 20171001 20:01:16< wesnoth-discord-> ... "spirituous". 20171001 20:01:21< wesnoth-discord-> I think you mean "spurious". 20171001 20:10:05-!- DeFender1031 [~DeFender1@46-116-196-40.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20171001 20:10:23-!- DeFender1031 [~DeFender1@46-116-196-40.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #wesnoth 20171001 20:11:22-!- Bhoren [~Bhoren_wh@2a01:e0a:c:2150:605a:d0ba:a8d3:430a] has joined #wesnoth 20171001 21:04:15-!- vultraz [uid24821@wesnoth/developer/vultraz] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 20171001 21:35:32-!- claymore [~claymore@unaffiliated/claymore] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20171001 21:43:06-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20171001 21:43:12-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20171001 21:54:34-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20171001 21:54:40-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20171001 22:12:58-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20171001 22:13:05-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20171001 22:33:37-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20171001 22:46:36-!- Bhoren [~Bhoren_wh@2a01:e0a:c:2150:605a:d0ba:a8d3:430a] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20171001 22:58:18-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] --- Log closed Mon Oct 02 00:00:18 2017