--- Log opened Fri Oct 20 00:00:42 2017 20171020 02:01:17-!- ArneBab_ [~quassel@freenet/developer/arnebab] has joined #wesnoth 20171020 02:04:57-!- ArneBab [~quassel@freenet/developer/arnebab] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20171020 02:20:57-!- sevu [~Shiki@p54854FB2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20171020 02:50:46-!- synthpopisback [~synthpopi@2606:a000:7947:5000:ace7:ebd3:783a:aeda] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20171020 02:56:20-!- synthpopisback [~synthpopi@2606:a000:7947:5000:81db:70e1:8f88:9459] has joined #wesnoth 20171020 02:59:13-!- ArneBab [~quassel@freenet/developer/arnebab] has joined #wesnoth 20171020 03:03:29-!- ArneBab_ [~quassel@freenet/developer/arnebab] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20171020 03:05:37-!- synthpopisback [~synthpopi@2606:a000:7947:5000:81db:70e1:8f88:9459] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20171020 03:06:00-!- synthpopisback [~synthpopi@2606:a000:7947:5000:3c60:49d:c286:b6dd] has joined #wesnoth 20171020 03:29:16-!- synthpopisback [~synthpopi@2606:a000:7947:5000:3c60:49d:c286:b6dd] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20171020 03:29:38-!- synthpopisback [~synthpopi@2606:a000:7947:5000:b0dc:6964:c697:d2f9] has joined #wesnoth 20171020 03:39:43-!- synthpopisback [~synthpopi@2606:a000:7947:5000:b0dc:6964:c697:d2f9] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20171020 03:40:08-!- synthpopisback [~synthpopi@2606:a000:7947:5000:c530:c415:b929:3748] has joined #wesnoth 20171020 03:40:33-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has quit [Quit: KABOOM! It seems that I have exploded. Please wait while I reinstall the universe.] 20171020 03:57:52-!- synthpopisback [~synthpopi@2606:a000:7947:5000:c530:c415:b929:3748] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20171020 03:58:16-!- synthpopisback [~synthpopi@2606:a000:7947:5000:bc14:9a53:5087:bd28] has joined #wesnoth 20171020 04:07:13-!- synthpopisback [~synthpopi@2606:a000:7947:5000:bc14:9a53:5087:bd28] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20171020 04:08:11-!- synthpopisback [~synthpopi@2606:a000:7947:5000:b8c6:6cc7:82a:9301] has joined #wesnoth 20171020 04:42:39-!- twb [~twb@203.7.155.119] has joined #wesnoth 20171020 04:43:38< twb> In Debian, there's a bunch of campaigns available. Are they "first-party", or "user-made content" (UMC)? Does good UMC eventually become first-party content? 20171020 04:44:03< DeFender1031> the stuff in debian are the mainline campaigns 20171020 04:44:24< DeFender1031> most mainline did originate as UMC, yes. 20171020 04:44:32< twb> Ah, that lets me find http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Mainline_Campaigns 20171020 04:44:51< twb> DeFender1031: is there like a formal process for stuff transitioning from UMC to MC? 20171020 04:44:58< twb> DeFender1031: or is it more ad-hoc 20171020 04:45:04< DeFender1031> it's somewhat odd that debian ships the campaigns separately from core as well 20171020 04:45:44< twb> I think it's so you can install & play one campaign at a time, if you're short on space 20171020 04:46:12< DeFender1031> twb, it requires someone to be willing to transition and maintain it, it needs to generally be good enough... I don't know what else there is, I haven't been around long enough, but it seems like it's as formal as the rest of dev, namely, there's dev consensus to do it 20171020 04:46:34< twb> "rough consensus and working code" eh :-) 20171020 04:46:56< DeFender1031> "working code" is less important actually :P 20171020 04:47:59< twb> I'm a sysadmin who provisions inmate kiosks for use in Australian prisons. My job today is to try to package up "good" UMC plugins, so they have more stuff to do. 20171020 04:48:24< twb> http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Guide_to_UMC_Content --- does that page already exist in a tabular form? If not, I'm about to write a simple scraper so that I can easily filter it down to a shortlist 20171020 04:48:46< DeFender1031> that's a fascinating job 20171020 04:49:20< DeFender1031> also fascinating that inmates get computer games to play. It's not the typical image you get when you think of a prison. 20171020 04:49:29< twb> http://sprunge.us/AEHQ?py is the one I did for warzone the other day 20171020 04:49:59< twb> I had one for openttd's plugins somewhere, but I lost it 20171020 04:50:58< twb> DeFender1031: the kiosks are mostly used for TV and study and emails; the games are there basically on the premise that bored inmates cause more trouble than entertained inmates 20171020 04:51:21< DeFender1031> hmm 20171020 04:51:44< twb> they really like IPTV because unlike a regular TV, they can remotely block shows, and can revoke TV access to a misbehaving inmate without having to physically enter the cell 20171020 04:52:10< twb> oh and they can have a lights-out curfew baked in, so they can't watch TV when they're supposed to be sleeping 20171020 04:55:40< twb> What's an "era" ? 20171020 04:56:24< DeFender1031> multiplayer 20171020 04:57:06< twb> Ah, OK. No multiplayer in prisons. 20171020 04:57:32< DeFender1031> Figured as much 20171020 04:57:57< twb> Because then p123 and p321 says to the other in game "go shank Fat Tony after dinner" 20171020 04:58:15< twb> * Because then p123 says to p321 in-game "go shank Fat Tony after dinner" 20171020 05:02:26< DeFender1031> "LITTLE Paulie? Naaah, I told you to pop BIG Paulie!" 20171020 05:02:48< twb> Grmph, bloody HTML doesn't use
20171020 05:03:20< twb> I wonder if it would be totally evil of me to use pandoc to turn the wiki markup into docbook and then scrape THAT :-) 20171020 05:07:07< DeFender1031> It's your scraper... Anwyay, I'm out for now. G'luck, twb. 20171020 05:07:32< twb> bye bye, thanks for your help 20171020 05:12:10< twb> Herp derp 20171020 05:12:12< twb> pandoc --to=json --from=mediawiki 'http://wiki.wesnoth.org/index.php?title=Guide_to_UMC_Content&action=raw' 20171020 05:13:48< twb> Not sure if that's less horrible than --to=docbook 20171020 05:17:19< twb> Yeah OK, screw that. Docbook is much easier to read. 20171020 05:17:33< twb> http://sprunge.us/bKWh?json 20171020 05:54:35< twb> OK next stupid question 20171020 05:54:46< twb> How do I actually go from http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Guide_to_UMC_Content#Add.27s_Army to the actual plugin 20171020 05:55:23< wesnoth-discord-> https://addons.wesnoth.org/1.12/ 20171020 05:56:06< twb> yumi: thanks 20171020 05:59:15< twb> Ah and that has file size, and a description in a tooltip 20171020 06:00:12< twb> So I have to do some magic to merge the "status: finished" stuff from the wiki page and the download size & .tbz URL from the addons page. 20171020 06:01:28< twb> Is license data stored anywhere? e.g. I prefer to avoid CC-NC even though I can proooobably finesse the legality 20171020 06:02:31< twb> Picking a tarball at random, http://files.wesnoth.org/addons/1.12/Survival_Fusion_2.tar.bz2 has a 0 byte COPYING.txt inside it ☹ 20171020 06:03:15< wesnoth-discord-> https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=46093 20171020 06:03:28< twb> http://files.wesnoth.org/addons/1.12/A_Northern_Village.tar.bz2 has GPL-2 in COPYING.txt though 20171020 06:03:43< wesnoth-discord-> If an addon doesn't explicitly specify a license, it's GPL. 20171020 06:03:50< twb> OK, cool 20171020 06:04:40-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth 20171020 06:17:07< Necrosporus> twb, actually era addons are unit-packs. They might be needed for single player, if a campaign depends on it 20171020 06:17:22< twb> Necrosporus: OK 20171020 06:17:56< twb> Is it useful (for single-player) to have an age installed if no campaigns use it 20171020 06:22:45< twb> Hrm, wesnoth 1.12 is talking to add-ons.wesnoth.org, but the cert is for addons.wesnoth.org (no hyphen)? 20171020 06:23:53-!- Ivanovic [~ivanovic@wesnoth/developer/ivanovic] has quit [Quit: Caught sigterm, terminating...] 20171020 06:24:21-!- Ivanovic [~ivanovic@p579FBEDC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth 20171020 06:24:21-!- Ivanovic [~ivanovic@p579FBEDC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Changing host] 20171020 06:24:21-!- Ivanovic [~ivanovic@wesnoth/developer/ivanovic] has joined #wesnoth 20171020 06:25:20< twb> $ gnutls-cli add-ons.wesnoth.org -p 443 ⇒ The certificate is NOT trusted. The name in the certificate does not match the expected. 20171020 06:25:43< twb> And AFAICT gnutls-cli uses SNI by default 20171020 06:26:09< twb> So at a glance it sounds like wesnoth 1.12 addons client isn't doing X.509 cert validation 20171020 06:33:40< Soliton> the in-game addons client and the web page are not particularly related. they both get their content from the addon server though. 20171020 06:34:13< Soliton> there is data/tools/wesnoth_addon_manager if you want to download directly from the addon server. 20171020 06:34:24< twb> yeah I just managed to find that myself and start poking through it 20171020 06:34:56< twb> I've just been fighting openttd where the in-game client is built on top of the multiplayer protocol, which is binary crazy horror from back when it was properitary TTD 20171020 06:35:09< twb> This is looking less crazy so far 20171020 06:35:38< Soliton> well, our network protocols use WML so not really standard either. 20171020 06:35:46< twb> Grrrr 20171020 06:36:24< twb> Maybe I can actually download addons without having to start a virtual X server and do it as a pseudo-campaign onload script, though, which is how #openttd recommended 20171020 06:36:49< Soliton> what exactly are you trying to do? 20171020 06:37:05< Soliton> automatically download addons when you provision a new kiosk? 20171020 06:37:12< twb> My end goal is "give inmates more wesnoth content" 20171020 06:37:55< twb> The mid-level goal is to end up with a prisonpc-wesnoth-extras.deb that contains a curated subset of pre-dowloaded UMCs 20171020 06:38:14< twb> And my immediate goal is to find a way to quickly work out which UMC plugins are "good" 20171020 06:38:45< twb> (Preferably in a scripty way, so that in another 12 months I can rerun the script) 20171020 06:41:20 * twb tries "wesnoth_addon_manager --list --wml" and cries at the WML format not being JSON or XML or anything 20171020 06:43:51< Soliton> i suppose using addons.wesnoth.org sorted by traffic and filtering out a couple addon types is your best bet. 20171020 06:44:42< twb> yeah 20171020 06:45:55< twb> You can see how crazy I got with warzone: http://sprunge.us/OhWI?bash http://sprunge.us/Kaeh?py 20171020 06:46:10< Necrosporus> twb, marginally useful, since Wesnoth contains option for local multiplayer game (all players share single computers), which can be used to play against AI 20171020 06:46:23< twb> Necrosporus: OK, thanks 20171020 06:46:34< Soliton> there is stable-addons.wesnoth.org not sure how well that plays with https. 20171020 06:46:48< Soliton> otherwise you need to switch to a new stable version yourself. 20171020 06:47:13< twb> OK so "wesnoth_addon_manager --download The_Goblin_Rebellion" did something useful 20171020 06:47:13< wesnoth-discord-> that just redirects to https://addons.wesnoth.org/1.12/ 20171020 06:47:53< Soliton> and in the future to 1.14. that's the point. 20171020 06:47:58< twb> So my current plan is to have the prisonpc-wesnoth-addons.deb Build-Depends on that script, and do a bunch of those --download calls into $DESTDIR 20171020 06:48:28< wesnoth-discord-> though stable-addons.wesnoth.org itself gives an "insecure channel" warning. 20171020 06:48:41< Necrosporus> twb, some addons from server are broken and might conflict with other add-ons 20171020 06:48:54< Necrosporus> While it's suggested to avoid conflicts, it's not enforced 20171020 06:49:43< Necrosporus> So, blindly installing all the add-ons is not a good idea 20171020 06:50:18< twb> Necrosporus: understood 20171020 06:50:51< Necrosporus> twb, what if you run campaignd yourself? 20171020 06:50:56< Necrosporus> and mirror some add-ons 20171020 06:51:15< Soliton> how is that helpful at all? 20171020 06:51:35< twb> Right now I don't want to run any extra network protocol stuff on-site 20171020 06:51:40< twb> that is, at the prison itself 20171020 06:51:46< Soliton> it neither solves how to find a list of good addons nor how to get them onto the kiosk. 20171020 06:53:15< twb> do "eras" go into the campaigns directory, or somewhere else? 20171020 06:53:26< twb> because addons_manager only has a --campaigns-dir option 20171020 06:53:30< Soliton> all addons go in the same dir. 20171020 06:53:33< twb> cool 20171020 06:53:37< Necrosporus> twb, add-ons go into data/add-ons 20171020 06:53:58< Necrosporus> Is it possible to have data/add-ons in /usr ? 20171020 06:54:08< twb> Necrosporus: I was gonna use /usr/share/games/wesnoth/1.12/data/campaigns 20171020 06:54:23< twb> Necrosporus: /usr/share/games/wesnoth/1.12/data/add-ons doesn't exist, but I can strace to see what paths wesnoth actually looks in 20171020 06:54:42< Necrosporus> I am not sure if it's supported. Probably putting non-official directory is better 20171020 06:54:57< Necrosporus> twb, paths are configurable while compiling 20171020 06:55:00< Necrosporus> and in user options 20171020 06:55:14< twb> I'm using the stock Debian wesnoth binaries 20171020 06:56:11< Necrosporus> Wesnoth uses some eueristics to find directories. Plus if it has preferences file perhaps you can set directories there 20171020 06:57:44< Necrosporus> I'm not sure if paths are settable there 20171020 06:59:43< twb> I shall find out ☺ 20171020 06:59:55-!- synthpopisback [~synthpopi@2606:a000:7947:5000:b8c6:6cc7:82a:9301] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20171020 07:00:49< twb> Do all plugins use English as their base language? 20171020 07:00:54-!- synthpopisback [~synthpopi@2606:a000:7947:5000:58cc:159e:c443:2984] has joined #wesnoth 20171020 07:18:19< twb> I see that each addon's _main.cfg has path="data/add-ons/XXX" in it 20171020 07:18:33< twb> I bet that'll derp it if I put it in campaigns/ 20171020 07:41:49< twb> OK I tried installing The_Goblin_Rebellion in /usr/share/games/wesnoth/1.12/data/add-ons 20171020 07:42:28< twb> wesnoth can "see" that in the Campaigns menu, but when I pick it, it wh- never mind, I screwed up 20171020 07:42:53< twb> I forgot to recompile the kiosk's errata.squashfs 20171020 07:49:35< twb> OK. 20171020 07:50:17< twb> When I put The_Goblin_Rebellion plugin in /usr/share/games/wesnoth/1.12/data/add-ons/, strace shows that wesnoth is looking at it, but it doesn't show up in the Campaigns menu 20171020 07:50:51< twb> If I put it in /usr/share/games/wesnoth/1.12/data/campaigns/, it shows up in the Campaigns menu, but fails to load because it has internal references to data/add-ons/The_Goblin_Rebellion 20171020 07:52:08< twb> Within the GUI, Preferences > Paths indicates that add-ons are stored inside $HOME (which is not what I want) 20171020 07:55:23-!- vladimirslavik [~vslavik@95.82.135.136] has joined #wesnoth 20171020 07:58:27-!- vladimirslavik [~vslavik@95.82.135.136] has quit [Changing host] 20171020 07:58:27-!- vladimirslavik [~vslavik@wesnoth/translator/VladimirSlavik] has joined #wesnoth 20171020 08:03:18< twb> With this symlink /home/prisoners/p123/.local/share/wesnoth/1.12/data/add-ons -> /usr/share/games/wesnoth/1.12/data/add-ons/ 20171020 08:03:50< twb> ...I get an error when wesnoth starts: "Undefined macro in #ifver/#ifnver first argument at ~add-ons/The_Goblin_Rebellion/_main.cfg:17" 20171020 08:04:07< twb> And that line is #ifver WESNOTH_VERSION >= 1.13.3 20171020 08:04:26< twb> ...but I ran wesnoth_addon_manager under 1.12 20171020 08:05:18< twb> it *does* make "A_Northern_Village" show up in the campaign menu, though. Progress. 20171020 08:05:56< twb> And that loaded without error 20171020 08:06:58< twb> So it looks like I have two options: either I can edit user home directories to symlink ~/.local/wesnoth/1.12/add-ons BACK to /usr, or I can edit all the _main.cfg's to fix paths, and install them directly in campaigns/ or ai/ or whatever is appropriate for that plugin 20171020 08:15:19< twb> Bed time - thanks for your help, everybody 20171020 08:15:31-!- twb [~twb@203.7.155.119] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20171020 09:15:45-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has joined #wesnoth 20171020 11:56:52-!- Kranix [~magnus@x1-6-f4-6b-ef-d1-1f-e3.cpe.webspeed.dk] has joined #wesnoth 20171020 12:01:19-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20171020 12:45:56< wesnoth-discord-> tfw rng abandons you to induce you to make more and more depraved actions tfw granted glimpse of hope in last resort charge >all the rolls miss >get 2/6 hits against 40% defense >plan fails, path are blocked, gg >lead remaining two soldiers to try and kill a lizard as my last action >it lives with 1 hit from dying salt stats -9% inflicted/+10% taken` 20171020 12:46:47< wesnoth-discord-> why live? 20171020 13:14:33-!- Haudegen [~quassel@212-186-77-29.static.upcbusiness.at] has joined #wesnoth 20171020 14:06:02-!- DeFender1031 [~DeFender1@46-116-196-40.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit [Quit: I'm not back now.] 20171020 15:14:59< wesnoth-discord-> It's interesting that the #ifver tag broke there, since I'm pretty sure it's formatted correctly (It runs on my mahcine, and I haven't exactly defined a special WESNOTH_VERSION macro). Has anyone else run into an issue with #ifver? 20171020 16:12:00< wesnoth-discord-> It's just a symptom of caching issues when an add-on fails to load once, pressing F5 on the title screen ought to fix it. 20171020 16:15:40-!- Kranix [~magnus@x1-6-f4-6b-ef-d1-1f-e3.cpe.webspeed.dk] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 20171020 16:42:11< wesnoth-discord-> Ah. Thanks, that makes sense. 20171020 16:49:26-!- Narrat [~Narrat@p5DCC6953.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth 20171020 17:11:04-!- soloojos [~soloojos@gateway/tor-sasl/soloojos] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20171020 17:11:35-!- soloojos [~soloojos@gateway/tor-sasl/soloojos] has joined #wesnoth 20171020 17:17:21-!- vladimirslavik [~vslavik@wesnoth/translator/VladimirSlavik] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20171020 17:18:49-!- soloojos [~soloojos@gateway/tor-sasl/soloojos] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20171020 17:19:11-!- soloojos [~soloojos@gateway/tor-sasl/soloojos] has joined #wesnoth 20171020 17:26:59-!- Haudegen [~quassel@212-186-77-29.static.upcbusiness.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20171020 17:54:25-!- sevu [~Shiki@p54854B10.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth 20171020 18:08:24-!- sevu [~Shiki@p54854B10.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 20171020 19:26:33-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has joined #wesnoth 20171020 22:11:35-!- sevu [~Shiki@p54854B10.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth 20171020 22:12:15-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20171020 22:15:15-!- sevu [~Shiki@p54854B10.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20171020 23:38:52-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20171020 23:38:58-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20171020 23:47:02-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20171020 23:59:18-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has joined #wesnoth --- Log closed Sat Oct 21 00:00:43 2017