--- Log opened Tue Oct 24 00:00:47 2017 20171024 00:08:37-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has joined #wesnoth 20171024 00:35:07-!- Narrat [~Narrat@p5DCC6953.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance.] 20171024 01:19:07-!- twb [~twb@203.7.155.119] has joined #wesnoth 20171024 01:21:01< twb> I'm trying to use /usr/share/games/wesnoth/1.12/data/tools/wesnoth python2 library to get a toy sqlite3 database I can do nontrivial queries on (e.g. sort by a combination of high popularity and low file size) 20171024 01:22:13< twb> sqlite3 is pissed off because wesnoth DataSub objects contain non-ASCII bytes: sqlite3.ProgrammingError: You must not use 8-bit bytestrings … It is highly recommended that you instead just switch your application to Unicode strings. 20171024 01:22:40< twb> What encoding is the description here: http://sprunge.us/NKOO ? 20171024 01:23:00< twb> AFAIT it's not UTF-8, ISO-8859-1, or CP437 20171024 01:23:48< wesnoth-discord-> It's supposed to be UTF-8. Evidently something corrupted it. 20171024 01:24:15< twb> Oh never mind, it *is* UTF-8, I'm just doing something wrong in that dump 20171024 01:24:35 * twb tries again 20171024 01:24:59< twb> Works! 20171024 01:25:14< twb> http://sprunge.us/OHYD?py 20171024 01:27:11< twb> Hrm, dependencies isn't DWIMming 20171024 01:27:27< twb> Never mind, dumb typo 20171024 01:39:29< twb> Woooo 20171024 01:39:30< twb> sqlite3 -line addons.wesnoth.org.db "select *, (0.0+size) / date / size AS score FROM addons WHERE dependencies = '' ORDER BY score DESC LIMIT 50" | less 20171024 01:40:04< twb> By that quick-and-dirty heuristic, best addon is PickYourRecruits 20171024 01:42:10-!- synthpopisback [~synthpopi@2606:a000:7947:5000:58cc:159e:c443:2984] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20171024 01:42:54-!- synthpopisback [~synthpopi@cpe-71-68-228-59.sc.res.rr.com] has joined #wesnoth 20171024 01:44:45< wesnoth-discord-> did you just order them by description size? 20171024 01:45:10< twb> no that's sorting by "score", where "score" is the- oops 20171024 01:45:23< twb> that first size should be downloads 20171024 01:45:23< wesnoth-discord-> honestly i don't actually know sql 20171024 01:45:39< wesnoth-discord-> ah 20171024 01:46:01< twb> size is the number of bytes in the file 20171024 01:46:27< twb> My score should be something like "high number of downloads per day + low file size" 20171024 01:46:53< twb> So the /date is actually wrong, too, it should be /(now - date) 20171024 01:47:12< twb> sqlite3 -line addons.wesnoth.org.db "select *, rating / (1508809384.0 - date) / size AS score FROM addons ORDER BY score DESC LIMIT 50" | less 20171024 01:47:24< twb> (I'm just hard-coding the "now" date) 20171024 01:47:34< wesnoth-discord-> so it's downloads over a period, divided by size 20171024 01:48:38< wesnoth-discord-> but what is date actually from? is it the last time it was updated? 20171024 01:49:06< twb> I'm not sure 20171024 01:49:24< twb> If it's the last update, and number of downloads doesn't reset with each update, then that score will be wrong 20171024 01:49:42< twb> it'll underrate long-lived addons with recent uploads 20171024 01:50:23< wesnoth-discord-> yeah 20171024 01:50:30< twb> If I remove the date quotient, the winner is XP_Modification 20171024 01:51:05< wesnoth-discord-> looking at the in-game client, the dates associated with add-ons are the first upload, and the last update 20171024 01:51:56< twb> Is there a difference between "upload" and "update" ? 20171024 01:52:12< wesnoth-discord-> upload is when it wasn't on the server before 20171024 01:52:13< twb> I'm assuming both just mean when the content creator uploads version N+1 20171024 01:52:21< wesnoth-discord-> basically, yeah 20171024 01:52:36< twb> Aha! 20171024 01:52:41< twb> In the raw output there is 20171024 01:52:41< twb> \ original_timestamp (DataText)'1392948224' 20171024 01:52:44< twb> \ timestamp (DataText)'1507166436' 20171024 01:53:10< twb> So assuming downloads are not reset (which makes sense), I should divide by original timestamp 20171024 01:53:39< wesnoth-discord-> yeah, but there might be issues with having downloads front-loaded somehow? 20171024 01:54:32< wesnoth-discord-> actually, does downloading an update count as a download? 20171024 01:55:28< wesnoth-discord-> still seems like a good idea tho 20171024 01:57:00< wesnoth-discord-> The in-game client requests the server to not bump the download count when downloading updates. The external client does not. 20171024 01:58:24< wesnoth-discord-> As a corollary of that and the implementation of the add-ons web index, the download count will always be greater than or equal to the number of unique versions uploaded. 20171024 01:59:04< wesnoth-discord-> (By "unique" I mean versions whose version number is different and an increment from the previous version.) 20171024 02:09:45< celticminstrel> I guess because the add-ons web index uses the external client to "download" each add-on. 20171024 02:12:47< wesnoth-discord-> I've had plans to address that for a while now, but every time I remember, something else comes up. 20171024 02:18:15< twb> 575 wesnoth-1.12 addons vs. 265 warzone2100 addons :-) 20171024 02:25:31< twb> http://sprunge.us/EGKR?py finished (i.e. "good enough to move on with my life") version 20171024 02:36:49< wesnoth-discord-> out of curiousity, do older add-ons seem to do better or worse than newer ones by that metric? 20171024 02:38:42< twb> dunno 20171024 02:39:42< twb> It looks pretty variable at a glance 20171024 02:41:16< wesnoth-discord-> It's probably a good sign that there isn't obvious bias 20171024 02:42:34< twb> it's heavily biased against size 20171024 02:42:47< twb> Probably too heavily 20171024 02:43:23-!- vultraz [uid24821@wesnoth/developer/vultraz] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 20171024 02:46:41< wesnoth-discord-> On the one hand, that seems like a problem. On the other, TGR is pretty short.... 😄 20171024 02:47:44< twb> sqlite3 -header -column bootstrap/doc/addons.wesnoth.org.db "SELECT filename, downloads / ((1508809384.0 - timestamp)/86400.0) AS DL_per_day, (size/1024.0/1024.0) AS megabytes FROM addons ORDER BY DL_per_day / megabytes DESC" 20171024 02:47:54< twb> It's weight too heavily towards size, I think 20171024 02:48:23< twb> http://sprunge.us/FPBB -- output 20171024 02:50:14< wesnoth-discord-> wow you were not kidding 20171024 02:50:42< wesnoth-discord-> LotI is more than halfway down 20171024 02:52:04< wesnoth-discord-> The issue is that there's a massive discrepancy between add-ons with basically no art and add-ons with a lot of art 20171024 02:52:16< wesnoth-discord-> maybe a log scale on size would be appropriate? 20171024 02:54:44< twb> Yeah but my tiny brain doesn't know how to do that 20171024 02:54:57< twb> I tried DL/day - megabytes, I get something a bit less crazy I think 20171024 02:55:07< twb> http://sprunge.us/UWJA 20171024 02:55:14-!- ArneBab [~quassel@freenet/developer/arnebab] has joined #wesnoth 20171024 02:56:02< wesnoth-discord-> An interesting point here is that two most recent campaigns - TGR and AGA- are both veeery high up 20171024 02:56:28< twb> I actually want to punish by size RELATIVE to play time 20171024 02:56:41< wesnoth-discord-> so this is suggesting that downloads are often front-loaded 20171024 02:56:48< twb> e.g. 100 missions for 10MB is much better than 1 mission for 10MB 20171024 02:57:08< twb> But there's no knob for that short of scraping description text 20171024 02:57:20< wesnoth-discord-> Unfortunately # of scenarios is an optional component of descriptions 20171024 02:57:25< wesnoth-discord-> ninjaed 20171024 02:57:34< twb> yeah 20171024 02:58:05< twb> What would be ideal for me for ~2y from now is if wesnoth upstream people work out a sensible "rating" number and I can just use that :-) 20171024 02:59:01-!- ArneBab_ [~quassel@freenet/developer/arnebab] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20171024 02:59:38< twb> My install "budget" is around 150MB total, uncompressed 20171024 02:59:57< twb> i.e. equivalent to the total size of the mainline campaigns + engine 20171024 03:00:13< wesnoth-discord-> I mean, it is formatted in a pretty standard way- something like /(\S+\s+level, ([0-9]+)/ should get you something in most of them 20171024 03:01:14< wesnoth-discord-> actually, why not just use mainline campaigns, then? or is this budget left over after you install mainline stuff? 20171024 03:02:13< wesnoth-discord-> regex should have had an escaped open paren initally 20171024 03:04:10< wesnoth-discord-> or maybe /(\S+,\s+([0-9]+)\s+scenarios/ 20171024 03:09:21< twb> With score = (dl_per_day - megabytes), looking only at SP campaigns & scenarios, LOTI is now second from the top 20171024 03:11:31< twb> http://sprunge.us/aKHL 20171024 03:18:51< wesnoth-discord-> seems fairly reasonable, but it heavily favors new campaigns- not a terrible thing, but maybe a penalty that drops off over the course of a couple months would be a reasonable fix? something like penalty(daysSinceRelease) = min(0, (900-daysSinceRelease**2)/900)? 20171024 03:19:05< wesnoth-discord-> aagh over 90 20171024 03:19:29< wesnoth-discord-> so a 10 point penalty that drops off over the course of the first month to let things stabilize 20171024 03:19:52< wesnoth-discord-> oh wait that should also be maz 20171024 03:19:54< wesnoth-discord-> max 20171024 03:19:59< wesnoth-discord-> aagh typos everywhere 20171024 03:21:09< twb> in the task prioritization code at work there's a call to atan() 20171024 03:21:14< twb> it makes me cringe 20171024 03:21:21< wesnoth-discord-> uhh 20171024 03:21:27< wesnoth-discord-> that seems.... sketchy 20171024 03:21:33< twb> inorite 20171024 03:21:45< twb> allegedly it's so that very recent and very old tasks are uprated, or something 20171024 03:22:13< wesnoth-discord-> doesn't atan have, like, vertical asymptotes? 20171024 03:22:39< wesnoth-discord-> I guess that uprates stuff, but still 20171024 03:22:40< twb> Is A_goblin_adventure playable in English? 20171024 03:23:21< wesnoth-discord-> I don't think so 20171024 03:23:37< wesnoth-discord-> the uploader said they'd have translations in about a week a couple days ago 20171024 03:26:24< twb> No worries 20171024 03:28:17< twb> 2vs2ContestMaps is marked as type=campaign 20171024 03:28:21< twb> can someone here fix that? 20171024 03:29:50< wesnoth-discord-> The author would have to fix it. 20171024 03:30:13< wesnoth-discord-> Technically it would be possible to change it server-side, but the change would vanish as soon as the author uploads a new version. 20171024 03:30:16< twb> Fair enough 20171024 03:51:35-!- vultraz [uid24821@wesnoth/developer/vultraz] has joined #wesnoth 20171024 03:56:09< twb> Invasion_from_the_Unknown talks about an addong called "Descent into Darkness", but I can't see it 20171024 03:56:20< twb> oh - is it a _mainline_ campaign? 20171024 03:56:24< wesnoth-discord-> Yes. 20171024 03:57:05< twb> righto 20171024 04:12:34< celticminstrel> XD 20171024 04:20:11< wesnoth-discord-> @MiddleTwin , twb: A Goblin Adventure is partially in english now: https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=46971#p618533 I don't know whether you would consider that playable or not though. 20171024 04:20:58< twb> wesnoth-discord-: no worries, "maybe playable" is sufficient for me to just skip that one for now 20171024 04:21:01< wesnoth-discord-> Oh, thanks- I totally missed that somehow 20171024 04:21:35< celticminstrel> twb, wesnoth-discord- is not a person. 20171024 04:21:44< celticminstrel> So pinging them is pointless. 20171024 04:21:52< twb> Oops, sorry 20171024 04:21:53< celticminstrel> ^it 20171024 04:22:02< twb> I get that it's a gateway, I just hit TAB without thinking 20171024 04:22:07< celticminstrel> Ah. 20171024 04:58:03< twb> OK so I download a bunch of campaigns and I gotta do some basic testing of them all 20171024 04:58:32< twb> Is there like a "god mode" cheat, so I don't have to actually be good at the game? 20171024 04:58:44< wesnoth-discord-> No. 20171024 04:59:03< wesnoth-discord-> You can get around that using several debug mode features, but really, why? 20171024 04:59:51< twb> wesnoth isn't really my genre 20171024 04:59:59< twb> I'm deploying it for a bunch of inmates, not myself 20171024 05:00:13< wesnoth-discord-> Yes, so I am asking why you want to test campaigns then? 20171024 05:00:20< wesnoth-discord-> 1.13 has an invulnerability ability for debugging purposes - you can't lose if your leader is invulnerable. However, it's not available in 1.12. 20171024 05:01:22< wesnoth-discord-> @jyrkive I know at least two campaigns where you can lose even if your leader is invulnerable. :p 20171024 05:01:39< twb> shadowm: mostly to make sure they actually load up and don't crash straightaway, but also vaguely for "inappropriate" themes 20171024 05:02:16< twb> e.g. if the plugin involved gambling or sexual assault, the prison operators would probably be cranky with me 20171024 05:02:58< wesnoth-discord-> And you'd also want to report that to us as well, since the add-ons server does have rules. 20171024 05:03:11< twb> okey dokey 20171024 05:04:05< wesnoth-discord-> Uh 20171024 05:04:21< wesnoth-discord-> You can just put in ":debug" 20171024 05:04:28< wesnoth-discord-> and then right click to spawn free units 20171024 05:04:34< wesnoth-discord-> Fire Dragons are good at parties 20171024 05:04:49< wesnoth-discord-> put 'em wherever you want 20171024 05:04:54< wesnoth-discord-> personally, i find using the kill feature to be the fastest way to test things 20171024 05:04:59< wesnoth-discord-> I think there's a popular campaign that checks for debug mode? 20171024 05:05:02< wesnoth-discord-> shift+k 20171024 05:05:17< wesnoth-discord-> There is? 20171024 05:05:34< wesnoth-discord-> I vaguely remember reading something about it a couple of months ago. 20171024 05:06:32< wesnoth-discord-> I may be misremembering but 1) it is doable; 2) more than one campaign author has expressed their dislike of people reporting bugs that only happen after altering the gamestate in unexpected ways in debug mode, in the past. 20171024 05:06:46< wesnoth-discord-> something like #ifdef DEBUG_MODE [endlevel]result=defeat[/endlevel] ? 20171024 05:07:16< wesnoth-discord-> Or hook into every event using Lua and kill everything if debug mode has been enabled mid-scenario. 20171024 05:07:42< wesnoth-discord-> (#ifdef tricks wouldn't work mid-scenario.) 20171024 05:07:46< wesnoth-discord-> true 20171024 05:09:44< wesnoth-discord-> Personally I don't mind cheating as long as nobody complains about things breaking (and I'll usually be able to tell quite easily if they're cheating). 20171024 05:10:33< wesnoth-discord-> After all everyone can tell that my true calling is to write a visual novel instead of TBS campaigns lol 20171024 05:28:12< wesnoth-discord-> LotI was one of the add-ons this was happening for - people would go in use debug mode and-or the lua console to do things like manually altering variable values, then days/weeks later report a bug that ended up being caused by their setting values they shouldn't have. 20171024 05:28:34< wesnoth-discord-> Pffft, as if that campaign wasn't broken enough as it is. 20171024 05:28:43< wesnoth-discord-> there was another one, but I can't remember which one 20171024 05:29:26< wesnoth-discord-> https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=46759 20171024 05:30:08-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has quit [Quit: KABOOM! It seems that I have exploded. Please wait while I reinstall the universe.] 20171024 05:30:51< twb> shadowm: you could do that with renpy or something 20171024 05:31:07< twb> shadowm: it looked pretty easy to bolt in the content 20171024 05:33:06-!- mooshoe[m] [mooshoemat@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-fnkffkulxshdcsma] has joined #wesnoth 20171024 05:33:55< wesnoth-discord-> d 20171024 05:39:48< twb> https://renpy.org/why.html 20171024 06:38:00-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has joined #wesnoth 20171024 06:57:35-!- twb [~twb@203.7.155.119] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20171024 07:01:00-!- Ivanovic [~ivanovic@wesnoth/developer/ivanovic] has quit [Quit: Caught sigterm, terminating...] 20171024 07:01:21-!- Ivanovic [~ivanovic@p579FBEDC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth 20171024 07:01:25-!- Ivanovic [~ivanovic@p579FBEDC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Changing host] 20171024 07:01:25-!- Ivanovic [~ivanovic@wesnoth/developer/ivanovic] has joined #wesnoth 20171024 07:09:35-!- Ivanovic [~ivanovic@wesnoth/developer/ivanovic] has quit [Quit: Caught sigterm, terminating...] 20171024 07:09:57-!- Ivanovic [~ivanovic@p579FBEDC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth 20171024 07:10:15-!- Ivanovic [~ivanovic@p579FBEDC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Changing host] 20171024 07:10:15-!- Ivanovic [~ivanovic@wesnoth/developer/ivanovic] has joined #wesnoth 20171024 07:12:21-!- Ivanovic_ [~ivanovic@p579FBEDC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth 20171024 07:12:21-!- Ivanovic [~ivanovic@wesnoth/developer/ivanovic] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20171024 07:12:58-!- Ivanovic_ [~ivanovic@p579FBEDC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Changing host] 20171024 07:12:58-!- Ivanovic_ [~ivanovic@wesnoth/developer/ivanovic] has joined #wesnoth 20171024 07:14:27-!- Ivanovic_ is now known as Ivanovic 20171024 07:18:47-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth 20171024 07:49:38-!- twb [~twb@203.7.155.119] has joined #wesnoth 20171024 08:44:35-!- wesnoth-discord- [~wesnoth-d@baldras.wesnoth.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20171024 08:45:48-!- wesnoth-discord- [~wesnoth-d@baldras.wesnoth.org] has joined #wesnoth 20171024 09:31:27-!- twb [~twb@203.7.155.119] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20171024 10:07:54-!- vladimirslavik [vslavik@nat/redhat/x-kkjrgasrhyrbelpz] has joined #wesnoth 20171024 11:15:54-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20171024 11:34:24-!- sooojos [~soloojos@gateway/tor-sasl/soloojos] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20171024 12:31:14-!- Haudegen [~quassel@212-186-77-29.static.upcbusiness.at] has joined #wesnoth 20171024 15:28:44-!- oldlaptop [~quassel@45.63.78.126] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20171024 15:34:05-!- vladimirslavik [vslavik@nat/redhat/x-kkjrgasrhyrbelpz] has quit [Changing host] 20171024 15:34:05-!- vladimirslavik [vslavik@wesnoth/translator/VladimirSlavik] has joined #wesnoth 20171024 16:56:08-!- Haudegen [~quassel@212-186-77-29.static.upcbusiness.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20171024 17:01:11-!- Kranix [~magnus@xd520f683.cust.hiper.dk] has joined #wesnoth 20171024 17:20:13-!- vladimirslavik [vslavik@wesnoth/translator/VladimirSlavik] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20171024 17:34:03-!- mooshoe[m] [mooshoemat@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-fnkffkulxshdcsma] has left #wesnoth ["User left"] 20171024 17:45:10-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20171024 17:45:18-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20171024 17:53:17-!- Bhoren [~Bhoren_wh@2a01:e0a:c:2150:495e:171d:89b:5acf] has joined #wesnoth 20171024 18:02:02-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has joined #wesnoth 20171024 18:44:39-!- ToBeCloud [uid51591@wikimedia/ToBeFree] has joined #wesnoth 20171024 18:51:11-!- sbodin_ [~Android@91.226.141.253] has joined #wesnoth 20171024 19:40:46-!- Bhoren [~Bhoren_wh@2a01:e0a:c:2150:495e:171d:89b:5acf] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20171024 19:47:40-!- sbodin_ [~Android@91.226.141.253] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20171024 20:14:04-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20171024 20:14:10-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20171024 20:14:17< wesnoth-discord-> Hey, folks. Been away from Wesnoth for a long time. Curious what's the state of the Khalifate? Was under the impression they were going to become a fully fledged race. 20171024 20:33:35-!- Kranix [~magnus@xd520f683.cust.hiper.dk] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 20171024 21:32:57-!- sigurdfd [~SigurdFD@dynamic-acs-72-23-110-196.zoominternet.net] has joined #wesnoth 20171024 22:13:48-!- sigurdfd [~SigurdFD@dynamic-acs-72-23-110-196.zoominternet.net] has quit [] 20171024 22:14:29-!- ToBeCloud [uid51591@wikimedia/ToBeFree] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 20171024 22:14:58< wesnoth-discord-> they are a canon faction now. 20171024 22:15:09< wesnoth-discord-> though I believe they're still being worked on. 20171024 22:43:24-!- vultraz [uid24821@wesnoth/developer/vultraz] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 20171024 22:58:32< janebot> Tweet (by @Wesnoth) (RT @shikadilord) All @Wesnoth add-ons server instances rebuilt with some new patches, especially the 1.13.x instance. In case of issues you… [ https://twitter.com/Wesnoth/status/922960525633507329 ] 20171024 23:12:01-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20171024 23:28:05< wesnoth-discord-> The Khalifate are sort of in limbo. They're in mainline, but their maintainer left and I don't believe anyone's really taken over trying to improve their balancing/fitting their lore into Wesnoth/etc. 20171024 23:36:29-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20171024 23:49:20-!- THERetroGamerNY [~THERetroG@pool-108-55-4-217.bflony.fios.verizon.net] has joined #wesnoth --- Log closed Wed Oct 25 00:00:28 2017