--- Log opened Thu Nov 16 00:00:15 2017
--- Day changed Thu Nov 16 2017
20171116 00:00:15< irker700> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master 0d166750ecb8 / src/gui/dialogs/multiplayer/mp_create_game.cpp: MP Create Game: some minor cleanup from recent changes https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/0d166750ecb8eaa2e974c9a5ea44f270936b1d15
20171116 00:00:18< irker700> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master c7ff94f4348c / src/gui/dialogs/multiplayer/mp_create_game.cpp: MP Create Game: replaced a hack with a proper solution https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/c7ff94f4348c709877e4b87b59d5c22176833a35
20171116 00:00:21< irker700> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master ff672fd69f58 / data/campaigns/Heir_To_The_Throne/utils/abilities.cfg: Merge branch 'master' of github.com:wesnoth/wesnoth https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/ff672fd69f5828b4485c66c83bfde9b5bce844e9
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20171116 00:15:11< matthiaskrgr> does that fix the assertion failure?
20171116 00:18:37< matthiaskrgr> nope
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20171116 00:29:14< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#15621 (master - 320bdd9 : gfgtdf): The build passed.
20171116 00:29:14< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/302742902
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20171116 00:35:44< matthiaskrgr> yay for obscure bugs
20171116 00:41:39< matthiaskrgr> ugh
20171116 00:41:57< matthiaskrgr> in case you see some strange activity on your addon server, that is me :/
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20171116 00:42:57< matthiaskrgr> wtf is this
20171116 00:46:44< vultraz> matthiaskrgr: what failute?
20171116 00:48:34< matthiaskrgr> see tracker :P
20171116 00:48:58< vultraz> oh yeah, that bug
20171116 00:49:04< vultraz> i discovered that not too long ago
20171116 00:49:14< matthiaskrgr> oh so I am not the first? :( 
20171116 00:49:20< vultraz> i forgot to report it
20171116 00:49:29< matthiaskrgr> :P
20171116 00:49:30< vultraz> I'm going to make this a blocker
20171116 00:50:58< matthiaskrgr> while investigating in #2203 I managed to heap-use-after-free the addon browser somehow
20171116 00:51:02< matthiaskrgr> but only once
20171116 00:53:46< irker700> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master 8c1f07f60768 / src/gui/widgets/slider.cpp: add debug output on slider error. https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/8c1f07f60768644dcf3e2391aeda116281775edf
20171116 00:54:39< matthiaskrgr> retrying .. 
20171116 00:54:42< matthiaskrgr> eh 
20171116 01:06:32< matthiaskrgr> alright, happy hacking, good night
20171116 01:06:46< irker700> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master 1c44296b2297 / src/gui/widgets/slider.cpp: round instead of floor to fitting value in slider::set_value https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/1c44296b22974845e09e2fb47719c1ef87407a5e
20171116 01:07:45< irker700> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master 073a4ebcf69c / src/gui/widgets/slider.cpp: fix build https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/073a4ebcf69c6196e5aa5b255b1f83ee503becfb
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20171116 01:08:42< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#15625 (master - ff672fd : Charles Dang): The build was canceled.
20171116 01:08:42< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/302771115
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20171116 01:52:41< irker700> wesnoth: sigurdfdragon wesnoth:master ac2c6e6e6dfa / data/campaigns/Delfadors_Memoirs/ (scenarios/08_Ur_Thorodor.cfg utils/misc.cfg): DM S08: Use simpler way to keep leader on his keep https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/ac2c6e6e6dfa4a16cce32c1ef784bb06c9aa829b
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20171116 02:43:13< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#15628 (master - 073a4eb : gfgtdf): The build passed.
20171116 02:43:13< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/302793319
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20171116 03:20:52< celticminstrel> Okay, function_table.cpp compiles; hopefully the added consts in the AI won't cause problems...
20171116 03:21:43< vultraz> game config is thrown out if lnaguage changes right?
20171116 03:21:44< vultraz> language
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20171116 03:22:19< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#15629 (master - ac2c6e6 : sigurdfdragon): The build passed.
20171116 03:22:19< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/302805049
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20171116 03:42:13< irker700> wesnoth: Celtic Minstrel wesnoth:wflstuff 7434119cad97 / src/ (7 files in 3 dirs): Finish deploying DEFINE_WFL_FUNCTION macro https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/7434119cad97c97913ee8702420c5ae4df13fcf2
20171116 04:21:21< celticminstrel> vultraz: Do you have a list of functions you want me to add other than insert
20171116 04:34:42< vultraz> hmmmm
20171116 04:35:11< vultraz> celticminstrel: no, but a proper point/rect object would be nice
20171116 04:35:16< vultraz> and that thing about functions
20171116 04:36:02< celticminstrel> What's wrong with loc()
20171116 04:36:13< vultraz> it uses map_location
20171116 04:36:28< celticminstrel> True.
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20171116 04:54:28< celticminstrel> Anyway, I guess if there's no more functions you want I'll push insert tomorrow, but do tell me if you think of more in the meantime.
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20171116 04:56:11< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#15630 (wflstuff - 7434119 : Celtic Minstrel): The build failed.
20171116 04:56:11< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/302832102
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20171116 05:42:39< irker700> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master bc3c79a3e05b / src/ (network_asio.cpp network_asio.hpp): Campaignd/Network Asio: formatting cleanup https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/bc3c79a3e05bd9e189c22031f1f4d6d4f6b836ed
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20171116 06:25:49< irker700> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master f626a2dd310c / src/ (network_asio.hpp wesnothd_connection.hpp): Only define BOOST_ASIO_DISABLE_IOCP on Windows XP https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/f626a2dd310c75337949d077207a42d8f355082a
20171116 07:26:32< irker700> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master f7f2da45d491 / src/ (network_asio.hpp wesnothd_connection.hpp): Fixup f626a2d (more expansive _WIN32_WINNT value check) https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/f7f2da45d491bd55dd81c753bfc1018fa63bf1da
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20171116 13:19:47< irker179> wesnoth: pentarctagon wesnoth:master 961b306324db / src/SConscript: Fix the scons Wesnoth Windows executable icon. https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/961b306324db2b0288f1c2b4b9ef86077e5fa11f
20171116 13:19:47< irker179> wesnoth: pentarctagon wesnoth:master 5869c36b827f / src/SConscript: Add explanation comment. https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/5869c36b827f1a046de0f643344a45e3ff6ce678
20171116 13:19:47< irker179> wesnoth: Sergey Popov wesnoth:master b4c08f462c0f / src/SConscript: Merge pull request #2205 from Pentarctagon/2204 https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/b4c08f462c0f8a373fa67aac3bd5f7629ae72cd3
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20171116 14:52:40< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/303016330
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20171116 15:34:35< gfgtdf> any idea what to do with the EasyCoding page wiki page? It seems rather outdated also it is problematic  that it doesn't rally give space to discuss the issue (unliek our tracker for example). I think it migth be better to remove EasyCoding and instead just have a EasyCoding tag for in out issuetracker.
20171116 15:34:49< gfgtdf> s/any idea/any opinion
20171116 15:35:30< vultraz> that sounds reasonable
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20171116 17:34:36< irker179> wesnoth: Jyrki Vesterinen wesnoth:master f0fc40dc12b0 / src/filesystem_boost.cpp: Fix build with TDM-GCC https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/f0fc40dc12b00e0307d50e71167123217a3f0b4e
20171116 17:34:38< irker179> wesnoth: Jyrki Vesterinen wesnoth:master ec02c499c5b7 / src/gui/widgets/ (integer_selector.hpp toggle_panel.hpp): Fix MSVC compiler warning about overriding a function https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/ec02c499c5b7408964a62433065b0beb64d0ab44
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20171116 18:25:45< amir|2> i started to parse and analyze ladder games... here the preliminary win-ration-results: http://viel-zu.org/preliminary.html
20171116 18:26:34< amir|2> the numbers are win/loss
20171116 18:27:00< amir|2> that's the result after parsing 300 games
20171116 18:27:10< amir|2> it's gonna take a day to parse it all
20171116 18:27:22< Soliton> how do you decide who won?
20171116 18:28:01< amir|2> either there is a server message saying the a player left
20171116 18:29:37< gfgtdf> there is little reason to asusme that the looser or winner leaves first.
20171116 18:29:40< amir|2> or the last checkup result is the deciding one. so i parse the last checkup check who is attacker and who is defender and then i count the number of attacks. if it's even attacker won... if it's odd defender won. then i check the factions of attacker and defender
20171116 18:29:47< amir|2> i ignore mirror games
20171116 18:30:11< Soliton> what's a checkup check?
20171116 18:30:19< amir|2> *checkup, check
20171116 18:30:54< gfgtdf> are you parsing mp replays from the server ? in that case i'm suprised it has thoe checks. which version are you using ?
20171116 18:31:11< amir|2> i'm using 1.12
20171116 18:31:37< amir|2> the replay _needs_ the checkup of the last turn
20171116 18:31:54< Soliton> what's in that tag?
20171116 18:31:55< gfgtdf> so you are uing files from http://replays.wesnoth.org/1.12/?
20171116 18:32:06< gfgtdf> using*
20171116 18:32:13< amir|2> gfdtdf: yes
20171116 18:32:19< Soliton> doesn't look useful in the replay i looked.
20171116 18:32:52< gfgtdf> hmm and they have have the checkup data for attack actions? Becasue they shouldn't have since those actiosn are senseed before the attack has ended.
20171116 18:32:55< amir|2> Soliton: https://gist.github.com/kallaballa/0ba93a547e608d027ae1527674cb824b
20171116 18:33:23< amir|2> the last command with attribute sent="" contains the last useful checkup with the results i'm interested in
20171116 18:34:01< amir|2> attacker="`xml sel -t -v "/root/replay/command[@sent=''][last()]/attack/@attacker_type" -n "$XML"`"
20171116 18:34:01< amir|2>   defender="`xml sel -t -v "/root/replay/command[@sent=''][last()]/attack/@defender_type" -n "$XML"`"
20171116 18:34:01< amir|2>   checkup_cnt="`xml sel -t -v "count(/root/replay/command[@sent=''][last()]/checkup/result[@hits])" -n "$XML"`"
20171116 18:36:12< amir|2> it's a hack, but it seems to work. i've got plenty of asserts in place
20171116 18:36:14< Soliton> are you parsing the replays multiple times from a shell script?
20171116 18:36:29< amir|2> yes and it is slow. i have time :D
20171116 18:37:36< amir|2> Soliton: why do i always have the feeling when i'm talking to you, I'm talking to an executioner? :p
20171116 18:38:19< Soliton> no offense intended. i just hoped for better. :-P
20171116 18:40:22< Soliton> just seems odd to go through the trouble of converting to XML if you're not familiar enough to parse stuff in one go then.
20171116 18:40:48< Soliton> don't want to discourage you though. i get that you're just figuring out what's possible.
20171116 18:41:33< amir|2> i admit it's for from optimal :D
20171116 18:41:46< Soliton> unfortunately figuring out who won is probably not one of the possible things generally.
20171116 18:42:36< amir|2> well... when players left it's not for sure who won, that is why i flag all games in the database where i used that heuristic
20171116 18:42:50< amir|2> but the last fight in a game when no one left is what decides the game
20171116 18:42:54< amir|2> am i wrong?
20171116 18:42:58< Soliton> i wanted to check how a replay looks if the server says the game ended in 'game over' instead of 'aborted' though.
20171116 18:43:23< Soliton> if the game completed, perhaps.
20171116 18:43:57< Soliton> i'm sure lot's of games are "aborted" before only one team is left.
20171116 18:44:19< Soliton> and the last fight in an aborted game doesn't mean much.
20171116 18:44:30< amir|2> that is correct.
20171116 18:44:57< Soliton> one proper way would be to see what leaders are still alive.
20171116 18:45:29< Soliton> assuming regular games where you lose if your leader dies.
20171116 18:46:12< amir|2> i'm only parsing ladder games with 2 players. either they ended and there is one leader dead or the haven't i recognize that fact by tracking "Player has left" messages
20171116 18:46:36< amir|2> *or they haven't and
20171116 18:47:21< Soliton> would be interesting to compare to what's been registered in the ladder for those games.
20171116 18:47:30< amir|2> that way i can't evaluate all ladder games, but i think the win/loss ratio should be find because of the sheer number of games
20171116 18:47:40< amir|2> hmmm... interesting thought
20171116 18:47:47< amir|2> can i have that data easily?
20171116 18:48:09< Soliton> look on the ladder site. pretty sure you can get it there.
20171116 18:48:23< Soliton> no idea if it's easy or what you consider easy. :-)
20171116 18:48:45< amir|2> hehe.. i'll try to get it!
20171116 18:49:10< amir|2> do you know who is running the ladder site?
20171116 18:49:33< Soliton> i think they also have the replays so might be easier to get the replays together with the win/loss data.
20171116 18:50:15< Soliton> i think Cackfiend runs it. not sure what that means exactly.
20171116 18:50:23< amir|2> thx
20171116 18:50:45< Soliton> like i don't know how much he knows about the technical details.
20171116 18:51:11< Soliton> it was built by another guy who's name escapes me right now.
20171116 18:51:22-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-54-196-111-167.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20171116 18:51:23< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#15638 (master - ec02c49 : Jyrki Vesterinen): The build has errored.
20171116 18:51:23< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/303135105
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20171116 18:51:42< Soliton> i think their source is also open though.
20171116 18:52:36< amir|2> ouch. php
20171116 18:52:38< Soliton> in the footer there's a link to sourceforge.
20171116 18:52:42< amir|2> i found it
20171116 18:52:43< Soliton> yeah...
20171116 18:59:59< Soliton> looks like people are not often uploading replays. and correlating replays.wesnoth.org with the ladder site looks difficult...
20171116 19:01:26< Soliton> btw, there is #wesnoth-mp-lobby-stable where you can see server logs of games. there you can see how a game ended.
20171116 19:01:51< Soliton> as in 'aborted' or 'game over'.
20171116 19:02:01< amir|2> oh nice
20171116 19:02:34< Soliton> you'll also see the game number there to find the related replay.
20171116 19:03:07< amir|2> that's very nice... that way i can test my heuristics
20171116 19:04:00< Soliton> well, you can't really see who won there either. though you can see who "ended" the game which is the last player.
20171116 19:04:49< amir|2> what does "ended" mean?
20171116 19:05:38< Soliton> when the last player leaves the game ends.
20171116 19:06:15< amir|2> ic
20171116 19:13:10< amir|2> in wesnoth scenarios is there always a clear win condition?
20171116 19:16:43< Ravana_> there may be any kind of conditions, like gathering resources, reaching location, killing something, so on
20171116 19:21:27< amir|2> but are the denoted in a single unified way?
20171116 19:22:58< Ravana_> not really, for nonstandard win conditions there is usually just description somewhere in messages or objectives
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20171116 19:25:06< amir|2> how will the game know it has ended successfully/unsuccesfully?
20171116 19:28:28< Ravana_> usually game doesn't, players recognize it and one might say something to that effect before they leave
20171116 19:53:41< amir|2> ic
20171116 19:53:42< amir|2> thx
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20171116 20:43:39< fabi> amir|2: Maybe you ask for a "I surrender" feature. 
20171116 20:44:04< amir|2> that's an interesting idea. i'd even implement it myself with a little guidance
20171116 20:44:34< amir|2> I'm currently digging through the source to find a way to record who won in replays
20171116 20:44:49< fabi> yeah, I have read the chatlog
20171116 20:45:07< amir|2> in traditional games with the "leader dies" rule it's easy
20171116 20:46:02< amir|2> maybe at least it could be recorded when a leader dies. that way i could determine if the map is a traditional map and use that as win condition
20171116 20:46:04< fabi> Most mp games end like Soliton said, people recognize a team has lost and they say goodbye and leave the game.
20171116 20:46:12< amir|2> true
20171116 20:46:45< fabi> writing a program that recognizes near defeat is very very hard
20171116 20:46:57< amir|2> indeed.
20171116 20:47:08< amir|2> if not impossible
20171116 20:47:22< fabi> well, that programm would be a better ai than current one
20171116 20:47:28< amir|2> hehe 
20171116 20:48:04< fabi> But you can sum up unit value
20171116 20:48:18< fabi> und just declare the side the leader that wins that competition
20171116 20:48:22< amir|2> that's very crude. i won't invest time into that
20171116 20:48:41< amir|2> but the "surrender" feature sounds real good
20171116 20:48:53< fabi> we already have a function that determines unit value
20171116 20:49:49< amir|2> maybe the surrender-feature paired with a modification that declares a game lost to the first one leaving
20171116 20:50:14< amir|2> that would make it really clear
20171116 20:50:52< fabi> The surrender option would also please the ladder people, I can imagine.
20171116 20:51:00< Ravana_> that modification already exists I believe
20171116 20:51:17< amir|2> oh cool.. pity i've never seen it used in the wild
20171116 20:51:31< Ravana_> yes, gfgtdf wrote it
20171116 20:53:19< amir|2> how about in-game a menu option next to quit "surrender". when clicked it opens a confirmation dialog. when confirmed it kills the leader
20171116 20:53:29< amir|2> sound?
20171116 20:54:25< fabi> Well, I like the idea, no wonder having it had myself ;-)
20171116 20:54:32< amir|2> hehe
20171116 20:55:11< amir|2> Unfamiliar with release cycles i wouldn't know which version to implement it for
20171116 20:55:43< fabi> The current development cycle should have ended in the spring if you believe vultraz
20171116 20:55:50< fabi> the last one
20171116 20:56:33< amir|2> so wesnoth-git master?
20171116 20:56:41< fabi> You have to wait 
20171116 20:56:53< amir|2> for?
20171116 20:56:56< fabi> until after 1.14 is released if that ever happens
20171116 20:57:24< amir|2> ouch
20171116 20:57:55< Soliton> i've not heard of a feature freeze yet.
20171116 20:58:28< fabi> Some days ago the headline of this chat called the next release a release candidate
20171116 20:58:37< fabi> and we are not in feature freeze yet?
20171116 20:58:41< fabi> Chaos rules.
20171116 20:59:07< Soliton> a surrender feature is uncontroversial, i'd say. so i don't think it's a bad idea to work on that if you want.
20171116 20:59:23< fabi> ^
20171116 20:59:43< fabi> Also I wouldn
20171116 21:00:14< fabi> 't bet on that. There is always a developer not liking feature x no matter how usefull or badly needed it is.
20171116 21:02:24< Soliton> adding something simple to replays even with the sole reason to make it easier to find out who the winning side/team is is also not out of the question IMO.
20171116 21:02:57< fabi> I agree
20171116 21:07:12< amir|2> thx! i'm gonna start tomorrow
20171116 21:09:40< amir|2> btw: is the way i described the implementation good? click -> dialog -> kill leader?
20171116 21:10:57< Soliton> perhaps rather kill all your side's units.
20171116 21:15:10< amir|2> Soliton: good idea. thx
20171116 21:15:40< amir|2> btw... how are replays of reloaded games handled? are they stored in a different replay file?
20171116 21:16:22< amir|2> because i was just talking to players and they said the somtimes leave and reload stuck games. so... if they would use a modification that makes quitters lose that wouldn't work
20171116 21:17:09< Soliton> yes, making anyone that disconnects lose the game is a bad idea.
20171116 21:18:02< Soliton> for reloaded games there'll be a replay of the first part and later a hopefully working replay of the whole game.
20171116 21:18:32< Soliton> not sure if there are still some issues with reloaded games.
20171116 21:22:26< amir|2> i understand... i'll have a look at how reloaded games are handled.
20171116 21:22:44< Ravana_> surrender killing all units would only be in question for 2p games
20171116 21:23:27< Soliton> what would be the issue in other games?
20171116 21:24:32< Ravana_> normally someone else from that team takes over when one player decides he lost
20171116 21:24:48< Soliton> thats already possible.
20171116 21:28:15< amir|2> I don't think a side should be still playable if it surrenders
20171116 21:29:23< Soliton> which is why you shouldn't surrender in a team game unless your whole team is on board.
20171116 21:30:04< Soliton> you can leave and let another player play your side though which is fine and already works.
20171116 21:33:58< amir|2> i agree
20171116 22:08:47< amir|2> btw.. after parsing 2000+ games that's the preliminary. looks sane to me: http://viel-zu.org/preliminary.html
20171116 22:18:47< amir|2> *2000+ ladder games
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20171116 22:39:48< Ravana_> I believe either those <1 or those >1 values should be flipped so they all fall to one of those ranges
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20171116 22:45:24< amir|2> I'll make them percent values soon. is more readable.. but for now its wins divided by losses
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--- Log closed Fri Nov 17 00:00:21 2017