--- Log opened Mon Nov 20 00:00:25 2017 20171120 00:13:48-!- soloojos [~soloojos@gateway/tor-sasl/soloojos] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20171120 00:14:18-!- soloojos [~soloojos@gateway/tor-sasl/soloojos] has joined #wesnoth 20171120 00:33:37-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20171120 01:28:01< wesnoth-discord-> I'm just here thinking that if the lightning damage is real, it would have to be OP. 20171120 01:30:58-!- Bonobo [~Bonobo@14-203-49-124.tpgi.com.au] has joined #wesnoth 20171120 01:48:28-!- soloojos [~soloojos@gateway/tor-sasl/soloojos] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20171120 01:52:20< wesnoth-discord-> You don't really control hundreds of units, I have played a campaign where you literally do it and in Loti you just control a relatively small elite group of your best units, spamming units (maybe somebody triedt he hypermodern low level spam strategy in it, that would be silly) would be a self inflicted torture. 20171120 01:54:29< wesnoth-discord-> Try it, it feels way shorter than it actually is, the scenarios are short enough and aren't boring, also there is only one unexpected recall wipeout in the second part that I found to be a problem, but later you supposedly get your units back 20171120 01:57:48-!- prophile [~alynn@oftn/oswg-member/prophile] has joined #wesnoth 20171120 01:59:53< wesnoth-discord-> The thing with the story in it is that it has somewhat peculiar writing and considering that the campaign was mainly meant to be a fun RPG campaign it is fine at least for me. I guess it can be described as logic-driven, also expect some atheistic themes, whether it is all unironic, after I playedt hrough it I bet some parts of it are ironic just that it may not be so obvious at first glance, there are some more obvious ironic 20171120 01:59:54< wesnoth-discord-> elements as eg (spoilers) (some rational troll we find in the dungeons, or a lich physicist), I guess a thing like that was the easiest and best kind of story for dugi to write. 20171120 02:00:11< wesnoth-discord-> On the other hand, Warlord's Rule seems exceptionally dangerous 20171120 02:00:19< wesnoth-discord-> it hasb een nerfed 20171120 02:00:25< wesnoth-discord-> I tried LotI. 20171120 02:00:33< wesnoth-discord-> "20 at most", hah. 20171120 02:01:28< wesnoth-discord-> Well, how many units exactly do you have in the scenarios? In some earlier scenarios you may have more but really I have found my blob army to be about that size 20171120 02:01:30< wesnoth-discord-> It felt anything but logic-driven to me, at least until the point where I quit out of frustration at the gameplay. 20171120 02:01:56< wesnoth-discord-> The storyline didn't frustrate me, its absurdity was entertaining enough. 20171120 02:02:17-!- soloojos [~soloojos@gateway/tor-sasl/soloojos] has joined #wesnoth 20171120 02:02:25< wesnoth-discord-> But the gameplay started to wear down on me after the big battle where a certain lich participates. 20171120 02:02:55< wesnoth-discord-> Yeah, well, I guess the part about the items and RPG elements doesnt make me take it too seriously, it is a bit absurd 20171120 02:03:07< wesnoth-discord-> hm 20171120 02:03:11-!- heyalex[m] [heyalexmat@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-gwmkoiktxtvlwpax] has left #wesnoth ["User left"] 20171120 02:03:28< wesnoth-discord-> in the first part? was it that huge battle where you need to get to the bottom of the map? 20171120 02:03:42< wesnoth-discord-> you have a few liches there it is probably not what you mean 20171120 02:03:51< wesnoth-discord-> That sounds like every battle in the campaign. 20171120 02:04:10< wesnoth-discord-> I mean specifically the one where Mal Keshar is involved (yeah spoilers whatever). 20171120 02:04:44< wesnoth-discord-> Or the third one with him maybe. 20171120 02:04:47< wesnoth-discord-> I havent foundm ost battles to be exceedingly long, maybe its because the buffed army clears enemies pretty fast, most may even feelt shorter than many of the mainline campaigns maps 20171120 02:04:51< wesnoth-discord-> The one that was at Weldyn perhaps? 20171120 02:05:02< wesnoth-discord-> ah I see, the one at weldyn? 20171120 02:05:03< wesnoth-discord-> There might've been two or three scenarios for the same battle. 20171120 02:05:13< wesnoth-discord-> that one ends in 10 turns if i remember 20171120 02:05:18< wesnoth-discord-> The last one was an excruciatingly painful defense scenario. 20171120 02:05:22< wesnoth-discord-> you arent meant to defeat the army, you are meant to get crushed 20171120 02:05:54< wesnoth-discord-> the ai armies are meant to be undefeatable, after i think 10 turns a human mage appears andt hen ephraim and lethalia retreat 20171120 02:05:59< wesnoth-discord-> I don't remember it being that way. Maybe it changed. It was two years ago, too, so my memory is a bit hazy about the specifics anyway. 20171120 02:06:27< wesnoth-discord-> But you're making a good point. What's the fun in building units that are going to get destroyed by the AI? 20171120 02:06:37< wesnoth-discord-> Isn't that against the whole point of the campaign's core gimmick? 20171120 02:07:05< wesnoth-discord-> Ok, it was always like that becausei t is important in the story, later ephraim and lethalia decide to try to infiltrate the city instead. You should finish it. 20171120 02:07:23< wesnoth-discord-> If I'm to regard my units as disposable I'd rather play a mainline campaign with saner numbers on the battlefield. 20171120 02:08:11< wesnoth-discord-> I think the campaign allows you an enormous amount of diversity in your army, also the point, at least in higher difficulties is to get as strong units as possible, while Dugi does his best to stop you from building invincible army 20171120 02:08:18< wesnoth-discord-> I played LotI, but I got frustrated and quit on the mission in the swamp where there's eleventy-billion ghosts and you have to protect some mermen 20171120 02:09:14< wesnoth-discord-> in loti geared units arent really as disposable, but i wasnt afraid to lose some of my units later in the campaign simply because i could replace them, well in most campaigns high level units arent very disposable, loti isnt that much different in this regard 20171120 02:09:31< wesnoth-discord-> I feel like the campaign's design is essentially dangling a shiny object in front of me. 20171120 02:10:14< wesnoth-discord-> Like "yeah you can have op units but whoops not so fast dude youre going to lose them all any time the author wishes to do so and the circumstances under which you should give up arent always immediately obvious". 20171120 02:10:42< wesnoth-discord-> *units/items 20171120 02:11:11< wesnoth-discord-> Hm, I think its fine because it makes sense in the story and also building your army anew, while you find new items can be still fun 20171120 02:11:13< wesnoth-discord-> also a spoiler 20171120 02:11:21< wesnoth-discord-> you dont lose any of your recall list units EVER 20171120 02:11:39< wesnoth-discord-> in the ending chapter of part 1 you can have a spell to recall the units you hadi n the past 20171120 02:11:40< wesnoth-discord-> Yeah, that's a spoiler that makes no sense to me. 20171120 02:12:01< wesnoth-discord-> I think I can guess what you're getting at, but right there when you're playing the scenarios it definitely doesn't that way. 20171120 02:12:25< wesnoth-discord-> The bottomline is that the inventory and crafting system it uses would be far better suited to a campaign with smaller numbers. 20171120 02:12:41< wesnoth-discord-> Hm well at leats lethalia and ephraim stay 20171120 02:12:47< wesnoth-discord-> It's an unnecessary distraction otherwise. 20171120 02:13:22< wesnoth-discord-> Also I can tell you that the last scenario I played was Any Means Necessary on May 12 2016. 20171120 02:13:35< wesnoth-discord-> and I personally am fine with losing old units ifi t makes sense in the story, also in the first part you dont get nearly as many items as in the second part, so units with items arent as much stronger than units without them as in part 2 20171120 02:13:45< wesnoth-discord-> i usually gave best items to lethalia and ephraim anyway 20171120 02:13:56< wesnoth-discord-> I also started Diplomacy but promptly got sidetracked by stuff so I didn't continue. 20171120 02:14:23< wesnoth-discord-> Yep, that's the problem with the mechanic. 20171120 02:15:01< wesnoth-discord-> Inevitably you're going to give all the best stuff to a select few and render the rest of your roster redundant or turn it into glorified meatshields. 20171120 02:15:21< wesnoth-discord-> That seems just weird when you put those units side by side on the battlefield. 20171120 02:16:11< wesnoth-discord-> well, story after these scenarios is more interesting than them, also i think, if you dont have good items on ephraim or lethalia some of these scenarios may be a bit hard, but i don't know 20171120 02:17:10< wesnoth-discord-> Well it depends how many high level units you levelled, and these few units is not that few actually 20171120 02:17:13< wesnoth-discord-> I vaguely recall making some ill-advised choices in that regard due to the necessity of covering a whole battlefield instead of relying on two units (which were also separated from each other for some scdenarios) so yeah. 20171120 02:18:07< wesnoth-discord-> Well its not like you rely only on ephraim and lethalia but making them get the best items is the most sensible way to play 20171120 02:18:20< wesnoth-discord-> did you play on hard? 20171120 02:18:29< wesnoth-discord-> Medium. 20171120 02:19:05< wesnoth-discord-> But yeah I was really looking forward to getting to the part where two (okay, one and a half) of my own characters get butchered beyond recognition, but life happened and I don't think I'll be getting back to that campaign (or Wesnoth in general) any time soon. 20171120 02:21:34< wesnoth-discord-> Well loti is long that is for sure, 100 scenarios a part is no joke, but it should rather be seen as chapters. Also to me discovering new items, units and gearing them to be strong was pretty fun, and in the campaign if you get a strong army in many of the scenarios that arent meant to be very hard you can roll over enemies fast, kill everything and not really be too worried about your units. 20171120 02:21:37< wesnoth-discord-> you're not going to stick around for the end of my first campaign? D: 20171120 02:22:05< wesnoth-discord-> @Yumi I don't know, maybe. Again, I'd need to replay from the very beginning. 20171120 02:22:16< wesnoth-discord-> true 20171120 02:22:26< wesnoth-discord-> I still keep that screenshot of the absolute mess that was that cave scenario during development, you know. 20171120 02:22:31< wesnoth-discord-> unlike in other campaigns where you have no means of buyffing your units, so a level 2 enemy will still be scary to any level 3 enemy 20171120 02:22:36< wesnoth-discord-> I'm aware 20171120 02:22:40< wesnoth-discord-> the skeleton is still in that scenario 20171120 02:22:44< wesnoth-discord-> Oh wait, I deleted it some time ago. 20171120 02:22:52< wesnoth-discord-> I might still have it 20171120 02:23:06< wesnoth-discord-> I mean the one where the map became literally flooded with demons. 20171120 02:23:07< wesnoth-discord-> yup 20171120 02:23:29< wesnoth-discord-> I think you would've rage quit forever if you had to play development S14 20171120 02:23:39< wesnoth-discord-> with the spooky enemies 20171120 02:24:14< wesnoth-discord-> You should remind me more often that I need to make you units, god dammit. 20171120 02:24:25< wesnoth-discord-> I'm always looking for stuff to draw that isn't my own. 20171120 02:24:47< wesnoth-discord-> well I would but right now after 10 -14 hours a day of work every day 20171120 02:24:57< wesnoth-discord-> I come home and just want to play starcraft instead of making scenarios ._. 20171120 02:28:20< wesnoth-discord-> Yeah, making scenarios isn't as easy as some people make it out to be, sadly. At least not when you plan things through instead of just drawing a map and slapping some dialogue and numbers on it. 20171120 02:28:44< wesnoth-discord-> Been there, done that. Both approaches. 20171120 02:29:43< wesnoth-discord-> Even the one scenario I spent the least effort in took me a lot of time to complete. 20171120 02:30:36< wesnoth-discord-> (Points for whoever can guess exactly which scenario it is. And no, it's not a cutscene. Those take the most effort to make, as unlikely as it sounds.) 20171120 02:31:13< wesnoth-discord-> last one in IftU 1 20171120 02:31:31< wesnoth-discord-> Ummmmm. No. 20171120 02:31:33< wesnoth-discord-> awh 20171120 02:31:52< wesnoth-discord-> That'd be the escape scenario, right? In my mind it's a glorified cutscene but if you don't count it as such... 20171120 02:32:18-!- ToBeCloud [uid51591@wikimedia/ToBeFree] has joined #wesnoth 20171120 02:32:24< wesnoth-discord-> sorry I meant the one before that 20171120 02:32:27< wesnoth-discord-> It took me some time to get the race mechanic right. And also the dialogue. 20171120 02:32:27< wesnoth-discord-> no 20171120 02:32:34< wesnoth-discord-> the one where you fight Elyssa the first time 20171120 02:32:38< wesnoth-discord-> I forget the order 20171120 02:32:55< wesnoth-discord-> Ohhhh you mean IftU episode 1. 20171120 02:33:13< wesnoth-discord-> I don't know what I was thinking. No, The Escape (S12) actually took me a lot of effort in both iterations of it. 20171120 02:33:28< wesnoth-discord-> Especially the second one, since I decided to mess around with the objectives displayh. 20171120 02:33:33< wesnoth-discord-> The desert one? where you go through desert to kill the orcs? 20171120 02:33:48< wesnoth-discord-> err isn't that the one in hills? 20171120 02:34:00< wesnoth-discord-> IftU S4 (Over the Sands) was also an excruciating excercise in coding and pacing. 20171120 02:34:19< wesnoth-discord-> eh its hard to get in the mind of a developer 20171120 02:34:39< wesnoth-discord-> you saw my scenario with the boss though 20171120 02:34:44< wesnoth-discord-> that one was 4200 lines of code 20171120 02:34:58< wesnoth-discord-> And IftU S13 (Face Your Fate), despite having lazy gameplay, was hard to get right from a storytelling perspective, especially the second time around. 20171120 02:35:06< wesnoth-discord-> My laziest scenario is in AtS. 20171120 02:35:30< wesnoth-discord-> ats is longer so that makes sense 20171120 02:36:52< wesnoth-discord-> first scenario of i believe it was ats final where elynia awakes after the explosion of the mal hakuba? 20171120 02:36:57-!- aeth [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20171120 02:37:02< wesnoth-discord-> i think it was mal hekuba, it is blind guessing anyway 20171120 02:38:13< wesnoth-discord-> Cutscenes. Not lazy. 20171120 02:38:24< wesnoth-discord-> Again, cutscenes are actually the hardest to make. 20171120 02:38:39-!- aeth [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has joined #wesnoth 20171120 02:38:44< wesnoth-discord-> The laziest AtS scenario was lazy for two reasons, and one of them is something I'm hoping at least one person will discover by themselves one day so they can tell me their findings and then marry them or something. 20171120 02:38:46< wesnoth-discord-> ah the cutscene with elyssa was the first scenario? so i mean the first actual scenario 20171120 02:38:56< wesnoth-discord-> where i think she fights a lich, not sure 20171120 02:39:27< wesnoth-discord-> In AtS E3S1 there are no liches to be found, only demons and evil humans. 20171120 02:39:29< wesnoth-discord-> maybe i am just confusing facts 20171120 02:40:16< wesnoth-discord-> I actually had to replay it like six times before putting it out for my playtesters at the time, and had to fight quite a few bugs while trying to get the initial cutscene right. 20171120 02:40:48< wesnoth-discord-> The laziest scenario is E2S9 (New Hive). 20171120 02:41:15< wesnoth-discord-> Completely straightforward, almost devoid of dialogue sans filler. 20171120 02:41:51< wesnoth-discord-> The first reason for that is because it was sandwiched between a hard scenario and a tedious scenario (that eventually I revised to make less tedious). 20171120 02:42:36< wesnoth-discord-> I meant ats 2 first scenario eh 20171120 02:42:49< wesnoth-discord-> In fact it has no dialogue besides the initial dialogue and the time over event dialogue lol. 20171120 02:43:47< wesnoth-discord-> I also deliberately used the IftU boss scenario music playlist as a red herring, for the... 5 people that play with music probably. 20171120 02:45:30< wesnoth-discord-> Like, okay, have this scenario in a mildly foreboding environment, at the end you'll find... a swift and wordless transition to another scenario. 20171120 02:47:54< wesnoth-discord-> I see 20171120 02:47:57< wesnoth-discord-> The second-laziest scenario would have to be AtS E1S11.2 (Return to Wesmere pt 2, the hive portion). I even had the map drawn years in advance. 20171120 02:48:41< wesnoth-discord-> I'm afraid none of the IftU scenarios count as lazy anymore because of all the thinking that went into the rewrite. Plus the first time around, I had no idea what I was doing anyway, so I had to remake or replace several of them. 20171120 02:48:55< wesnoth-discord-> that is not a very rememberable scenario eh 20171120 02:49:18< wesnoth-discord-> i remember all these as dungeron crawl scenarios 20171120 02:50:47< wesnoth-discord-> In the past when I played the old version of iftu, the craziest scenario was the one in dungeons where you had to use union on elyssa 20171120 02:51:17< wesnoth-discord-> i played it on hard, i barely got close to the castle and then i see these level 4, what were they called, dark messengers? dark heralds? 20171120 02:51:25< wesnoth-discord-> and im like really? 20171120 02:51:30< wesnoth-discord-> it was very hard 20171120 02:52:07< wesnoth-discord-> now there isnt any scenario that is quite as hard i think 20171120 02:52:12< wesnoth-discord-> maybe i just had bad units 20171120 02:52:14< wesnoth-discord-> its possible 20171120 03:00:35< wesnoth-discord-> Dark Couriers probably. 20171120 03:01:37< wesnoth-discord-> It's still probably hard if you don't know exactly what's going on behind the scenes, but hopefully not as frustrating as it originally was. 20171120 03:02:07-!- ArneBab [~quassel@freenet/developer/arnebab] has joined #wesnoth 20171120 03:02:10< wesnoth-discord-> The sad part about writing a campaign is that you know how it works, and sometimes even your playtesters do. 20171120 03:02:25< wesnoth-discord-> Last time around my main playtester cheesed through everything with Spectres. 20171120 03:02:53< wesnoth-discord-> That didn't make for a terribly balanced view on what a novice player's experience would be like. 20171120 03:06:05-!- ArneBab_ [~quassel@freenet/developer/arnebab] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20171120 03:07:25< wesnoth-discord-> it seems that its actually called shadow courier heh 20171120 03:07:46< wesnoth-discord-> yeah its hard but not as hard 20171120 03:09:17< wesnoth-discord-> xD spectres are strong, yeah that is pretty impressive that he managed to mass spectres. When I went through the campaign i focused on liches rather, i had a few spectres 20171120 03:10:34< wesnoth-discord-> that scenario i described at that time seemed impossible without huge luck, which i tried to get, i think finally i got some huge rolls throughout the entire scenario and managed to win 20171120 03:17:14< wesnoth-discord-> I'M SORRY LOL 20171120 03:17:31< wesnoth-discord-> tbf I massed spectres in my own campaign 20171120 03:17:37< wesnoth-discord-> *am massing 20171120 03:18:06< wesnoth-discord-> he problem with spectres is that they can get killed by shaxthal ranged pretty easily so i didnt consider going full spectre 20171120 03:18:24< wesnoth-discord-> it's not as easy when my spectres have 54 hp 20171120 03:18:41< wesnoth-discord-> wow you got so many almas on them? lmao 20171120 03:18:44< wesnoth-discord-> yup πŸ˜› 20171120 03:18:54< wesnoth-discord-> one even got to 60 hp 20171120 03:19:03< wesnoth-discord-> wow, that is amazing, i didnt think it is even possible to get so many xD 20171120 03:19:16< wesnoth-discord-> on a spectre at least 20171120 03:19:57< wesnoth-discord-> @Yumi Hang on. Since when can you get Spectres in your campaign????? 20171120 03:20:08< wesnoth-discord-> Oh wait. Aryel. 20171120 03:20:27< wesnoth-discord-> I just remembered that's her thing. 20171120 03:20:43< wesnoth-discord-> you didn't really think I'd write a campaign where you couldn't get spectres, did you? 20171120 03:21:52< wesnoth-discord-> Β―_(ツ)_/Β― 20171120 03:22:15< wesnoth-discord-> Of course it makes a lot of sense when you put it like that. 20171120 03:23:27< wesnoth-discord-> Spectre has pretty mediocre sprite though at least compared to the old one 20171120 03:23:37< wesnoth-discord-> why is its weird scythe called baneblade i dont understand 20171120 03:24:04< wesnoth-discord-> I reckon it's because the person who commit the sprites usually doesn't touch the WML other than the animation code. 20171120 03:24:06< wesnoth-discord-> hey, I like that big scythe D: 20171120 03:24:34< wesnoth-discord-> Also, the last "proper" IftU scenario (the fight against the Chaos Emperor) used to be extremely luck-based, and still is to some extent, but I'd like to think this time around it's more manageable without relying on luck. 20171120 03:24:55< wesnoth-discord-> The easiest explanation is that its attack name just has never been changed 20171120 03:24:58< wesnoth-discord-> That said, I haven't received a lot of feedback on that or other recent changes. In fact, I've received exactly zero feedback at all. 20171120 03:25:27< wesnoth-discord-> I played it using your save... 20171120 03:25:33< wesnoth-discord-> Another thing, what are the level 2 ghost blade and level 3 ghost scythe made of? that is what i wonder about, why they are so silvery xD 20171120 03:25:50< wesnoth-discord-> @Yumi Internal playtesters don't coun. 20171120 03:26:04< wesnoth-discord-> you mean the last scenario where you fight against argan? 20171120 03:26:09< wesnoth-discord-> Yeah. 20171120 03:26:28< wesnoth-discord-> Also my own save doesn't really help because, even though I deliberately made some poor recall choices, I still had enough foresight to recall two Spectres. 20171120 03:26:32< wesnoth-discord-> in the later parts of it it is indeed a bit luck based i think its because attacking argan requires luck, if you dont get lucky you are done 20171120 03:26:38< wesnoth-discord-> One of which I lost at some point. 20171120 03:26:49< wesnoth-discord-> i remember i had one shyde to slow him, if you dont hit slow and shyde dies its gg 20171120 03:27:22< wesnoth-discord-> Yeah, that's the whole reason why I added the Glacial Gladius, but even that's extremely likely to be missed by players. 20171120 03:27:44< wesnoth-discord-> what is glacial gladius? 20171120 03:28:00< wesnoth-discord-> Perhaps I should move it to an unskippable room at some point and make a different helpful item to replace the secret one. 20171120 03:28:11< wesnoth-discord-> It's the secretest item in the whole campaign. 20171120 03:28:22< wesnoth-discord-> it is a very useful item 20171120 03:28:27< wesnoth-discord-> Makes your melee deal cold and also adds slows to it. 20171120 03:28:30< wesnoth-discord-> im confused, it had to be well hidden 20171120 03:28:39< wesnoth-discord-> yup 20171120 03:28:52< wesnoth-discord-> first time I played through, I didn't even know it existed till shadowm told me 20171120 03:28:58< wesnoth-discord-> My strategy is to give it to Galas so he can take the blunt of the attack and slow Argan down in the process. 20171120 03:29:05< wesnoth-discord-> story of my life 20171120 03:29:12< wesnoth-discord-> It worked despite not having the regen ring on him. 20171120 03:29:40< wesnoth-discord-> Normally I give him the regen ring, but this time around I deliberately played dumb. 20171120 03:30:06< wesnoth-discord-> By which I mean I chose the path where the regen ring doesn't ever come into play. 20171120 03:32:09< wesnoth-discord-> i gave the regen ring to one of my strong elf masters for max damage 20171120 03:32:16< wesnoth-discord-> also galas will die anyway so why bother about him 20171120 03:32:40< wesnoth-discord-> i think its called elf champion actually 20171120 03:33:55< wesnoth-discord-> i have interestingly high number of elf champions 20171120 03:34:34< wesnoth-discord-> btw so where can you find the glacial gladius? can you tell? or would i need to look for it myself? xD 20171120 03:36:55< wesnoth-discord-> It's a bit convoluted. 20171120 03:37:21< wesnoth-discord-> a puzzle to surpass Yumi's body parts puzzle? xD 20171120 03:37:28< wesnoth-discord-> If an item is so important for success, why make it skippable by someone who'd take if given the opportunity? 20171120 03:37:49< wesnoth-discord-> it's not super super important 20171120 03:37:51< wesnoth-discord-> but very useful 20171120 03:38:00< wesnoth-discord-> The alternatives are Elynia and one or more Shydes/Enchantresses. 20171120 03:38:20< wesnoth-discord-> Disclaimer: I've never actually played the campaign in question 20171120 03:38:20< wesnoth-discord-> In IftU S21 Innuendo, there's a cave near the dungeons that can only be accessed by flying units. 20171120 03:39:00< wesnoth-discord-> If any of them can get there, they will find the Gladius and a touchplate that opens a passage from the dungeons and into the otherwise inaccessible cave. 20171120 03:39:17< wesnoth-discord-> Then any sword user can pick up the Gladius. 20171120 03:42:31< wesnoth-discord-> yes thanks, i see it 20171120 03:42:50< wesnoth-discord-> in theory, could you also give it to the user of ring? 20171120 03:42:58< wesnoth-discord-> because i see that in the scenario i already have ring unit 20171120 03:44:09< wesnoth-discord-> btw i gave galas the arcane ranged item 20171120 03:45:20< wesnoth-discord-> If I knew the fight at the end of the campaign i would have made different decisions 20171120 03:45:41< wesnoth-discord-> if only i had a time machine i would have changed what i did xD well playing again takes a lot of effort 20171120 03:46:17< wesnoth-discord-> i think there is really no good way to make the fight against argan better 20171120 03:46:55< wesnoth-discord-> except that gladius but maybe it could somehow be made more accessible, not sure 20171120 03:51:01< wesnoth-discord-> I wonder, does the potion of swiftness also increases the elynia's union damage when she gets it? 20171120 03:52:05< wesnoth-discord-> Potion of Deftness? Probably. 20171120 03:52:12< wesnoth-discord-> It's usable by faeries. 20171120 03:52:39< wesnoth-discord-> The code just says "increase the damage of all ranged attacks by 1", so yes, it should work. 20171120 03:56:57< wesnoth-discord-> wow nice 20171120 03:57:33< wesnoth-discord-> By all means that's an oversight on my part, but I'm willing to turn a blind eye to it. 20171120 03:59:09-!- ArneBab_ [~quassel@freenet/developer/arnebab] has joined #wesnoth 20171120 04:03:05-!- ArneBab [~quassel@freenet/developer/arnebab] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20171120 04:18:42< wesnoth-discord-> Heh one of the drones there is called Nemaara, is that where your unic comes from yumi? 20171120 04:32:17< wesnoth-discord-> Btw shadowm later in loti there a reference to your storyline and how zhangor was defeated and it is stated that the Argan in the campaign is a different Argan (later in the campaign his role is, lets say reduced anyway, if you dont mind spoilers i can expand on it), and it is just the convergence of their names. 20171120 04:32:51< wesnoth-discord-> Yeahhhh but the campaign makes use of Yarae and Uria. 20171120 04:33:07< wesnoth-discord-> However considering what you said I think you wouldn't like what he did with Uria and especially Yarae 20171120 04:33:11< wesnoth-discord-> haha 20171120 04:33:23< wesnoth-discord-> Yarae is entirely my own creation, and I'd tend to think Uria is as well since she's nothing beyond a name in UtBS. 20171120 04:33:44< wesnoth-discord-> ah, yes, right 20171120 04:34:03< wesnoth-discord-> I thought you were referring to Argan and Male Keshar (half) 20171120 04:34:12< wesnoth-discord-> *mal 20171120 04:36:04< wesnoth-discord-> Mal Keshar I'm just willing to ignore since I took a lot of liberties with his characterization in my own campaigns and both characterizations diverge from mainline in their own different ways. 20171120 04:36:45< wesnoth-discord-> It just means there are three major versions of Mal Keshar in mainline and UMC and they are all different characters. 20171120 04:36:51< wesnoth-discord-> @EoZ the drone is named after nemaara 20171120 04:36:55< wesnoth-discord-> Not vice versa 20171120 04:37:21< wesnoth-discord-> really? 20171120 04:37:28< wesnoth-discord-> Yes. 20171120 04:37:30< wesnoth-discord-> is that so shadowm? 20171120 04:37:33< wesnoth-discord-> wow 20171120 04:37:45< wesnoth-discord-> It's not the only unit named after a player or collaborator. 20171120 04:37:59< wesnoth-discord-> Some are decidedly non-obvious though. 20171120 04:38:52< wesnoth-discord-> (It helps that one of them isn't even around anymore.) 20171120 04:39:27< wesnoth-discord-> To introduce a unit named after someone and then remove it, that is worse than not introducing it at all xD 20171120 04:40:15< wesnoth-discord-> Oh I wouldn't do that. I'd just transfer the name to someone else. It's not going to happen, though, since things are for the most part set in stone in that regard. 20171120 04:40:46< wesnoth-discord-> Although in a way you are killing them. 20171120 04:41:10-!- ToBeCloud [uid51591@wikimedia/ToBeFree] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 20171120 04:41:52< wesnoth-discord-> Ah, haha, well at least in the case of Nemaara, trying to kill it is highly impractical 20171120 04:41:56< wesnoth-discord-> yes 20171120 04:42:01< wesnoth-discord-> it's big and beefy and just annoying 20171120 04:42:07< wesnoth-discord-> just like the development version of S4d 20171120 04:42:24< wesnoth-discord-> It just flies around to the nearest castle, to camp there for all of eternity 20171120 04:42:46< wesnoth-discord-> I thought I fixed that. 20171120 04:43:14< wesnoth-discord-> No, I never killed it, it wasnt fixed at least in the version i played 20171120 04:43:35< wesnoth-discord-> In version 1.99.7: Make sure the Shaxthal Sentry Drone miniboss doesn't run off to the nearest keep. 20171120 04:43:49< wesnoth-discord-> In my replay it did 20171120 04:44:14< wesnoth-discord-> I think i played one of the early versions of the new iftu 20171120 04:44:36< wesnoth-discord-> Yeah. That's release candidate 8 that shipped the fix. 20171120 04:46:29< wesnoth-discord-> @Yumi I'll admit that the thought of making it a unique War Drone instead did cross my mind. 20171120 04:46:54< wesnoth-discord-> It just had to be there. It's probably symbolic of something. 20171120 04:47:19< wesnoth-discord-> 🀷 20171120 04:48:05< wesnoth-discord-> so if I kill it, that means I'm killing myself 20171120 04:48:08< wesnoth-discord-> πŸ€” 20171120 04:48:50< wesnoth-discord-> Only if you want to think that 20171120 04:49:00< wesnoth-discord-> I mean, it could be worse, it could've been the final boss instead. 20171120 04:49:06< wesnoth-discord-> if shadowm introduced it just so people could kill you, that would change a lot 20171120 04:49:10< wesnoth-discord-> That would've been ridiculous, right. 20171120 04:49:24< wesnoth-discord-> that's okay 20171120 04:49:32< wesnoth-discord-> I understand the pain and frustration 20171120 04:49:39< wesnoth-discord-> of having every corridor blocked 20171120 04:49:41< wesnoth-discord-> by 10 demons 20171120 04:49:44< wesnoth-discord-> Well I would be fine to be a final boss if you asked me 20171120 04:50:23< wesnoth-discord-> If I was a character, there was a suggestion to make me a lich that likes ghouls a lot, that would fit me 20171120 04:52:19< wesnoth-discord-> btw are you going to continue the story of ats shadowm? 20171120 04:52:27< wesnoth-discord-> there was a poll in the thread 20171120 04:52:50< wesnoth-discord-> The poll was about porting stuff to 1.14. It'll happen in time. 20171120 04:53:11< wesnoth-discord-> I'm sure a sequel will happen eventually, just not yet. 20171120 04:54:09< wesnoth-discord-> there was the one about animating a character 20171120 04:56:53< wesnoth-discord-> well nice poll xD it was completely literal, if i only readt he post 20171120 04:57:05< wesnoth-discord-> well it doesnt change anything really 20171120 04:57:46< wesnoth-discord-> most of the people's favourite character is anya 20171120 04:58:32< wesnoth-discord-> who's yours? 20171120 04:59:13< wesnoth-discord-> hm in ats i guess anya 20171120 04:59:40< wesnoth-discord-> though im not sure 20171120 05:00:00< wesnoth-discord-> elyssa is also a nice character 20171120 05:01:46< wesnoth-discord-> btw I believe Elynia is described in the dialogues as rather dumb, its a bit hard to believe that someone who lives for so long could really be dumb in any way 20171120 05:02:29< wesnoth-discord-> maybe, maybe not 20171120 05:02:39< wesnoth-discord-> she's a little bull-headed in some ways 20171120 05:03:00< wesnoth-discord-> and maybe a lot more emotional than Elyssa is 20171120 05:03:23< wesnoth-discord-> so Elyssa could totally see Elynia as dumb 20171120 05:03:24< wesnoth-discord-> Yeah i know, well in the campaign she is shown to be pretty consistently reckless 20171120 05:03:26< wesnoth-discord-> in some regard 20171120 05:03:44< wesnoth-discord-> yeah, totally 20171120 05:04:15< wesnoth-discord-> the most reckless was probably the fight against mal hekube, where she got saved only by the strength of will, at least so it looked 20171120 05:04:27< wesnoth-discord-> hekuba 20171120 05:05:06< wesnoth-discord-> ahh 20171120 05:05:12< wesnoth-discord-> it's already 12 20171120 05:05:40< wesnoth-discord-> can't keep gunning down zerglings anymore 😦 20171120 05:05:56< wesnoth-discord-> think the scene was changed a bit right? 20171120 05:06:05< wesnoth-discord-> But I dont remember it being changed that much... 20171120 05:06:24< wesnoth-discord-> the scene was epic when i first saw it but after reconsideration, it is pretty special in the whole campaign 20171120 05:06:59< wesnoth-discord-> also shadowm might have been having fun playing with animation/cutscene things 20171120 05:07:39< wesnoth-discord-> right 20171120 05:08:27< wesnoth-discord-> maybe if you ever make any scenarios you'll understand 20171120 05:09:00< wesnoth-discord-> like how Talya randomly has a lot of abilities just since I was bored πŸ˜› 20171120 05:09:43< wesnoth-discord-> If he was having fun I understand, i dont even mind the scene, i meant that the scene was actually rather odd ,it didnt fit that well in the campaign, elynia gets saved by the pure strength of will 20171120 05:10:28< wesnoth-discord-> That doesnt seem to fit that well considering the rest of the campaign 20171120 05:10:59< wesnoth-discord-> really? 20171120 05:11:07< wesnoth-discord-> I think it works 20171120 05:11:22< wesnoth-discord-> well, there is a better explanation for all the other things in the campaign than strength of will 20171120 05:11:24< wesnoth-discord-> it feels like she just gets more and more desperate and "stupid" 20171120 05:11:38< wesnoth-discord-> since everything gradually feels more hopeless 20171120 05:11:46< wesnoth-discord-> yeah it works but it doesnt fit that well 20171120 05:11:53< wesnoth-discord-> 🀷 20171120 05:11:57< wesnoth-discord-> and like i said the scene was epic and i like it 20171120 05:12:47< wesnoth-discord-> Lets say it, its a bit like something taken out of a shonen anime xD 20171120 05:13:52< wesnoth-discord-> Hekuba underestimated the amount of punishment his opponent could take between all the evil gloating and delusions of invincibility. 20171120 05:13:53< wesnoth-discord-> can mine be the shojo anime then? 20171120 05:14:02< wesnoth-discord-> shoujo 20171120 05:14:29< wesnoth-discord-> haha, i am not an expert on shoujo 20171120 05:14:33< wesnoth-discord-> but 20171120 05:14:41< wesnoth-discord-> maybe 20171120 05:15:12< wesnoth-discord-> btw, you are a girl right? xD I think I never actually asked you so I was never sure 20171120 05:15:15< wesnoth-discord-> But Elynia didn't really expect to survive that battle anyway, and barely did. You'll note she was taken out of commission for a while after that. 20171120 05:15:23< wesnoth-discord-> who knows 🀷 20171120 05:15:23< wesnoth-discord-> or are you not 20171120 05:15:24< wesnoth-discord-> She didn't intend on surviving the battle either. 20171120 05:15:35< wesnoth-discord-> yes, Elynia goes in to a lot of battles like that... 20171120 05:15:53< wesnoth-discord-> I think I referred to you as he a few times here and you didnt seem to mind, that makes me more confused 20171120 05:16:08< wesnoth-discord-> I don't really care what you refer to me as 20171120 05:16:17< wesnoth-discord-> I prefer to be thought of as an entity 20171120 05:16:24< wesnoth-discord-> not a person πŸ˜› 20171120 05:16:57< wesnoth-discord-> I'm a blob 20171120 05:17:11< wesnoth-discord-> Shadowm that may be also why I confused the scenario after death of keshar and after mal hekube but when i checked it in scenario after mal hekuba she doesnt seem to be in as bad of a state as after death of keshar 20171120 05:17:39< wesnoth-discord-> I would like to know your gender though xD 20171120 05:18:12< wesnoth-discord-> neverrrrr 20171120 05:18:54< wesnoth-discord-> I identify as an attack helicopter 20171120 05:19:16< wesnoth-discord-> It kind of makes a sense to me to assume that you are a girl, also I don't believe a man would write, or feel comfortable with writing a campaign where 3 main characters (and basically every other mc) is a female 20171120 05:19:42< wesnoth-discord-> pff 20171120 05:19:43< wesnoth-discord-> *are female 20171120 05:19:44< wesnoth-discord-> πŸ˜› 20171120 05:19:52< wesnoth-discord-> yes, thanks xD 20171120 05:20:00< wesnoth-discord-> That's not really how it works. 20171120 05:20:22< wesnoth-discord-> huh you're right 20171120 05:20:28< wesnoth-discord-> basically everyone important in Genesis is famel 20171120 05:20:30< wesnoth-discord-> female 20171120 05:20:32< wesnoth-discord-> Firstly you can write whatever you want. Secondly, if someone would rather not share their gender, well, nothing to do about it. 20171120 05:21:40< wesnoth-discord-> when I write stories 20171120 05:21:43< wesnoth-discord-> Well if you say so shadowm. Maybe you are right, maybe if you wanted you could write something where everyone is a female, i don't know im not a content creator 20171120 05:21:51< wesnoth-discord-> I always get accused of not being able to write male characters 20171120 05:22:02< wesnoth-discord-> because their personalities are always more stereotypically feminine 20171120 05:22:12< wesnoth-discord-> so that's probably why my campaign's like that 20171120 05:22:52< wesnoth-discord-> Its fine 20171120 05:22:54< wesnoth-discord-> 🚁 20171120 05:23:08< wesnoth-discord-> it doesn't seem to need males much xD 20171120 05:23:18< wesnoth-discord-> 🚁 20171120 05:24:05< wesnoth-discord-> If anyone's campaign should be accused of being shΓΆjo-like AtS would be the first contestant. 20171120 05:24:29< wesnoth-discord-> By the end every single major character is female, and most of the mythological figures are as well. 20171120 05:24:51< wesnoth-discord-> Alive characters, I mean. Other than Nar-hamoth. 20171120 05:25:13< wesnoth-discord-> is Yarae male? 20171120 05:25:16< wesnoth-discord-> does he have a gender? 20171120 05:25:21< wesnoth-discord-> then again, neither Elyssa nor Elynia are very "girly" 20171120 05:26:10< wesnoth-discord-> I guess they arent very girly girls 20171120 05:26:24< wesnoth-discord-> uhm 20171120 05:26:24< wesnoth-discord-> you see your campaigns betray your genders xD 20171120 05:26:30< wesnoth-discord-> who was Nar-hamoth? 20171120 05:26:32< wesnoth-discord-> LOL 20171120 05:26:38< wesnoth-discord-> I forgot =_= 20171120 05:26:44< wesnoth-discord-> Yarae has been referred to as a he by people. 20171120 05:26:45< wesnoth-discord-> a shaxthal overlord 20171120 05:26:50< wesnoth-discord-> not very important 20171120 05:26:58< wesnoth-discord-> yeah i also think he is a he 20171120 05:28:51< wesnoth-discord-> do shaxthals even have the concept of gender? 20171120 05:29:19< wesnoth-discord-> they are 🚁 like me 20171120 05:29:27< wesnoth-discord-> xD 20171120 05:29:55< wesnoth-discord-> Arguably Elyssa is a shaxthal at least in part right 20171120 05:30:20< wesnoth-discord-> well true shaxthals probably don't have gender idk 20171120 05:30:24< wesnoth-discord-> hmmmm 20171120 05:30:36< wesnoth-discord-> but... there was a shaxthal queen 20171120 05:30:42< wesnoth-discord-> that is a question shadowm can answer better 20171120 05:30:47< wesnoth-discord-> I think she's part shaxthal 20171120 05:30:55< wesnoth-discord-> I am waiting for the woice of god 20171120 05:30:58< wesnoth-discord-> she's also the guardian of darkness 20171120 05:31:06< wesnoth-discord-> but not the intended one 20171120 05:31:11< wesnoth-discord-> (spoiler) 20171120 05:31:54< wesnoth-discord-> We were giving spoilers throughout the whole discussion 20171120 05:32:19< wesnoth-discord-> true 20171120 05:35:50< wesnoth-discord-> Considering that gender is a social construct and Shaxthals have no society to speak of, they don't really know the concept. 20171120 05:36:10< wesnoth-discord-> But the "Shaxthal" race is also used for hybrid lifeforms that were once normal living beings. 20171120 05:37:06< wesnoth-discord-> The Shaxthal Queen is just an augmented Shaxthal creature that served as a testbed for one of the Empire's projects. 20171120 05:37:44< wesnoth-discord-> While the characters may refer to it as a she as one would an ant queen, she is by no means sentient in the way humans or demons are. 20171120 05:38:06< wesnoth-discord-> She's not part of their reproductive process either. 20171120 05:38:39< wesnoth-discord-> Shaxthal were genetically engineered right, if they were created from mutilating and cvhanging some other lifeforms then they probably have gender, assumind the species werent hermaphrodites 20171120 05:38:48< wesnoth-discord-> but even so their gender wouldn't matter much 20171120 05:39:09< wesnoth-discord-> As for Elynia and Elyssa not being "girly", they really don't have a need to conform to gender stereotypes in their respective cultures, especially in Elyssa's case since she had none to begin with. 20171120 05:39:22< wesnoth-discord-> Also, you do realize that as a scientific fact gender does not depend on your society right. 20171120 05:39:51< wesnoth-discord-> you mean sex? 20171120 05:40:00< wesnoth-discord-> sex and gender are different things 20171120 05:40:09< wesnoth-discord-> That. 20171120 05:40:18< wesnoth-discord-> Hm 20171120 05:40:30< wesnoth-discord-> Seems so 20171120 05:40:45< wesnoth-discord-> But I don't really understand the difference 20171120 05:40:46< wesnoth-discord-> EoZ - Today at 12:19 AM /snip/ I don't believe a man would write, or feel comfortable with writing a campaign where 3 main characters (and basically every other mc) is a female 20171120 05:40:52< wesnoth-discord-> at least in my languaget here is none 20171120 05:40:55< wesnoth-discord-> I am going to make you eat these words one day if I survive 20171120 05:40:57< wesnoth-discord-> so what I meant was in fact sex 20171120 05:41:11< wesnoth-discord-> I was asking about their sex 20171120 05:41:22< wesnoth-discord-> There's plenty of literature on the subject of gender vs. sex out there in the Internet. It's kind of beyond the scope of this channel. 20171120 05:41:43< wesnoth-discord-> In biological terms, Shaxthal creatures have no sex as they reproduce asexually. 20171120 05:42:17< wesnoth-discord-> That is, pure Shaxthal creatures, not those created from other lifeforms. 20171120 05:43:10< wesnoth-discord-> Though the dictionary seems to indicate that sex and gender are synonymous 20171120 05:43:15< wesnoth-discord-> so i wasnt completely wrong 20171120 05:43:21< wesnoth-discord-> no true synonyms 20171120 05:43:26< wesnoth-discord-> or else you would not have different words 20171120 05:43:44< wesnoth-discord-> they can be used interchangeably in some contexts, and they are 20171120 05:44:07< wesnoth-discord-> That is not really an argument, you can have words that mean essentially the same 20171120 05:44:11< wesnoth-discord-> sex is biological, gender is which you identify as. 20171120 05:44:26< wesnoth-discord-> Like I said, beyond the scope of the channel, and dictionaries generally provide convenient simplifications to match the common usage of words and they are by no means the ultimate authority on them, which is why they continually change over time. 20171120 05:44:26< wesnoth-discord-> "essentially the same" is not the same as "the same" 20171120 05:44:35< wesnoth-discord-> and the nuanced differences are very important 20171120 05:44:41< wesnoth-discord-> as far as language goes imo 20171120 05:44:41< wesnoth-discord-> But still, off-topic. 20171120 05:44:42< wesnoth-discord-> this isn't really the place to talk about it 20171120 05:44:55< wesnoth-discord-> true 20171120 05:45:19< wesnoth-discord-> perhaps there should be a channel here for #off-topic 20171120 05:45:24< wesnoth-discord-> many discords have such channels 20171120 05:45:29< wesnoth-discord-> No, it's off-topic for the server entirely. 20171120 05:46:12< wesnoth-discord-> I do not believe you can actually identify as different gender but fine, unless you have gender dysphoria 20171120 05:46:37< wesnoth-discord-> I will insist once again that this is off-topic for the server. 20171120 05:47:27< wesnoth-discord-> Bottomline, pure Shaxthal creatures reproduce asexually (and they in fact require external agents to complete the process), hybrids are hybrids and their biological makeup does not change, gene-wise, and neither does their identity. 20171120 05:47:44< wesnoth-discord-> hmmmm 20171120 05:47:49< wesnoth-discord-> so what is a Shaxthal made of? 20171120 05:48:20< wesnoth-discord-> They are a class of creatures on their own right, but the term is also applied to biomechanical hybrids like Elyssa and Nar-hamoth. 20171120 05:48:30< wesnoth-discord-> like the drones 20171120 05:48:42< wesnoth-discord-> not hybrids 20171120 05:49:08< wesnoth-discord-> All of those are pure Shaxthals, with the sole exception of the one who is referred to as Ivyel. 20171120 05:50:19< wesnoth-discord-> They have a metallic alloy thing exoskeleton and a very nasty fleshy inside, as described in IftU S16. 20171120 05:50:38< wesnoth-discord-> There isn't much more to them of interest than that. 20171120 05:51:14< wesnoth-discord-> "very nasty fleshy" πŸ˜– 20171120 05:51:24< wesnoth-discord-> nasty to eat 20171120 05:51:25< wesnoth-discord-> maybe 20171120 05:51:29< wesnoth-discord-> They are also notably lacking in cognitive abilities and have electronic stuff in them as well to control or coordinate them. 20171120 05:51:52< wesnoth-discord-> maybe I can make a real life shaxthal 20171120 05:52:03< wesnoth-discord-> jk that would be a terrible idea even if I could 20171120 05:52:16< wesnoth-discord-> well, it depends on where you draw the line, kinda 20171120 05:52:21< wesnoth-discord-> some people have pacemakers 20171120 05:53:28< wesnoth-discord-> Their prime directive is to kill everything they do not recognize as their masters or one of their own. 20171120 05:53:54< wesnoth-discord-> how do they come to recognize something as their master 20171120 05:54:13< wesnoth-discord-> Like I said, they can be controlled. 20171120 05:54:38< wesnoth-discord-> They can also be instructed to target specific individuals (AtS E3S8C). 20171120 05:55:09< wesnoth-discord-> Or used as glorified bomb carriers (AtS E3S2). 20171120 05:55:26< wesnoth-discord-> sounds like we already have shaxtal in real life 20171120 05:55:56< wesnoth-discord-> in a manner of speaking, yes 20171120 05:56:49< wesnoth-discord-> or maybe that's just another wesnoth UMC i am thinking of 20171120 05:56:52< wesnoth-discord-> iRL, anyone? 20171120 05:57:10< wesnoth-discord-> i always feel like i dont have enough gold 20171120 05:57:21< wesnoth-discord-> maybe send some replays and i can analyze it to get better 20171120 05:58:39< wesnoth-discord-> ask EoZ 20171120 05:59:13< wesnoth-discord-> maybe i picked too high of a difficulty, should restart 20171120 06:00:36< wesnoth-discord-> Why restart when you can reload saves until the RNG favours you? 20171120 06:00:50< wesnoth-discord-> Or just use debug mode and give your character all the gold. 20171120 06:00:52< wesnoth-discord-> TFW not sure if you're joking 20171120 06:01:14< wesnoth-discord-> its a joke but also with substance to it 20171120 06:01:35< wesnoth-discord-> well i have a strict policy about saveloading @shadowm i believe it breaks the game in an uninteresting way 20171120 06:01:46< wesnoth-discord-> also it diminishes my desire as a player to play 20171120 06:03:00< wesnoth-discord-> I limit myself to reloading turn autosaves usually, not always. 20171120 06:03:12< wesnoth-discord-> If it's my own campaign I only use autosaves. 20171120 06:03:19< wesnoth-discord-> i always feel like upkeep is too high in iRL campaign, even subsisting just off of rather basic groceries 20171120 06:03:28< wesnoth-discord-> (I mean, seriously speaking.) 20171120 06:03:48< wesnoth-discord-> i mean, basically if someone used saveloading 20171120 06:03:55< wesnoth-discord-> easiest/fastest way to make gold is to backstab your allies, same as regular wesnoth :p 20171120 06:03:56< wesnoth-discord-> you can tell from just opening their statistics tab 20171120 06:03:58< wesnoth-discord-> Btw in your campaign saves can be useful to see the lore messages eg like in the scenario with elyssa and crystals 20171120 06:04:04< wesnoth-discord-> If it's my own campaign I tend to reload saves from much further back if I feel I screwed up. 20171120 06:04:12< wesnoth-discord-> and it can be something stupefying like +300% rng 20171120 06:04:26< wesnoth-discord-> and then you will know basically that he did not "deserve" to win 20171120 06:04:31< wesnoth-discord-> In a perfect world you should reload from the start if you want minimal luck influence 20171120 06:04:53< wesnoth-discord-> but that is tricky, many would disagree with me, including some devs taht loading breaks luck 20171120 06:04:54< wesnoth-discord-> yeah, that's what i do, just restart the campaign if its that bad 20171120 06:04:55< wesnoth-discord-> speaking of ats I need to get back to playing ats soon...been really busy :( 20171120 06:05:12< wesnoth-discord-> even advise against loading at all but its impractical often 20171120 06:05:14< wesnoth-discord-> If I feel luck is playing a hand in my screwing up of things I try a different strategy altogether. 20171120 06:05:21< wesnoth-discord-> @Inky i dont have enough allies :( also they would flame me in the chatlog 20171120 06:05:45< wesnoth-discord-> i meant from the start of a scenario lol 20171120 06:05:56< wesnoth-discord-> You can probably imagine exactly how many times I played the last IftU boss fight during development of the refresh. 20171120 06:06:06< wesnoth-discord-> From the very beginning. 20171120 06:06:19< wesnoth-discord-> see, i tried doing that @EoZ but the thing with that is, you could restart the scenario by making risky moves and strategic plans from the start 20171120 06:06:21< wesnoth-discord-> And again when making the v2.0.1 changes. 20171120 06:06:30< wesnoth-discord-> to save yourself money for example 20171120 06:06:40< wesnoth-discord-> so i dont really buy into it anymore at this point 20171120 06:07:54< wesnoth-discord-> restart scenario and make strategic risks 20171120 06:07:56< wesnoth-discord-> and just abstaining from doing it is imo a janky solution - you are forced to draw the boundary yourself between "luck-dependent strat" and not luck-dependent 20171120 06:08:18< wesnoth-discord-> when really its not so clear-cut 20171120 06:08:54< wesnoth-discord-> if your units have a lot of hp and are hard to kill you dont risk a lot vs ai 20171120 06:09:07< wesnoth-discord-> not in terms of losing them 20171120 06:09:12< wesnoth-discord-> so if you put them on high def you dont really risk losing them often 20171120 06:09:15< wesnoth-discord-> but gold is quite important for SP too 20171120 06:09:32< wesnoth-discord-> like at the start i must decide how much to recall or recruit 20171120 06:09:40< wesnoth-discord-> and which enemy leader to go for, etc 20171120 06:14:09< wesnoth-discord-> wow wesnoth server lobby is so empty rn 20171120 07:04:59-!- Bhoren [~Bhoren_wh@2a01:e0a:c:2150:447f:1c9e:bdc1:860f] has joined #wesnoth 20171120 07:05:20-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has quit [Quit: KABOOM! It seems that I have exploded. Please wait while I reinstall the universe.] 20171120 08:12:08-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has joined #wesnoth 20171120 08:15:38-!- mistymind [afc0d115@gateway/web/freenode/ip.175.192.209.21] has joined #wesnoth 20171120 08:53:56-!- mistymind [afc0d115@gateway/web/freenode/ip.175.192.209.21] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20171120 10:12:22-!- Bhoren [~Bhoren_wh@2a01:e0a:c:2150:447f:1c9e:bdc1:860f] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20171120 10:22:43-!- vladimirslavik [vslavik@nat/redhat/x-ufkhpfchaewrqowq] has joined #wesnoth 20171120 10:28:31< wesnoth-discord-> wtf is beelzebub even killable in loti 20171120 10:28:48< wesnoth-discord-> my ai allies surrounded it and wont attack it ayah >.< 20171120 10:29:45-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth 20171120 10:33:25< wesnoth-discord-> does doom stack? 20171120 10:35:30< wesnoth-discord-> nvm did it lol 20171120 10:42:53< wesnoth-discord-> Beelzebub isnt your true enemy, flies are 20171120 11:18:19< wesnoth-discord-> yeah i just spent like 10 turns stacking doom on him with my one swordmaster 20171120 11:18:32< wesnoth-discord-> he levelled up twice lol 20171120 11:18:51< wesnoth-discord-> I think i messed up tho i killed him last and missed all the loot, eh whatever >.< 20171120 11:52:07-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20171120 12:18:19-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20171120 12:18:28-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20171120 12:38:43< wesnoth-discord-> how could you miss all the loot 20171120 12:47:21-!- Haudegen [~quassel@212-186-77-29.static.upcbusiness.at] has joined #wesnoth 20171120 13:07:01-!- Bonobo [~Bonobo@14-203-49-124.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20171120 13:27:14< wesnoth-discord-> quem for br entra ai no grupo" :https://www.facebook.com/groups/297246887430328/ 20171120 13:57:14-!- ToBeCloud [uid51591@wikimedia/ToBeFree] has joined #wesnoth 20171120 14:40:43-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20171120 14:40:50-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20171120 14:46:04-!- soloojos [~soloojos@gateway/tor-sasl/soloojos] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20171120 14:46:42-!- soloojos [~soloojos@gateway/tor-sasl/soloojos] has joined #wesnoth 20171120 15:03:52< wesnoth-discord-> Are there any new campaigns that I have a good storyline? 20171120 15:03:59< wesnoth-discord-> I feel empty without playing any... 20171120 15:15:15< wesnoth-discord-> imo talentless mage has a good storyline but not sure how new 20171120 16:06:35-!- ToBeCloud [uid51591@wikimedia/ToBeFree] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 20171120 16:20:12< Polsaker> distance to the moon is 405616 km, speed of light is 299792 km/s 20171120 16:20:15< Polsaker> oops wrong channel 20171120 16:50:18-!- Haudegen [~quassel@212-186-77-29.static.upcbusiness.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20171120 17:22:00-!- Bhoren [~Bhoren_wh@2a01:e0a:c:2150:1810:6e89:fd61:f0b4] has joined #wesnoth 20171120 17:36:48< wesnoth-discord-> the funny thing is uh 20171120 17:36:55< wesnoth-discord-> beezlebub is actually a massive joke 20171120 17:37:03< wesnoth-discord-> and i basically started farming him every chance I got 20171120 17:37:29< wesnoth-discord-> all you need is a toughish unit with a slow attack and the lightning sword/gauntlets for Efraim 20171120 17:38:08< wesnoth-discord-> add more lightning attacks/units with resistance pen to speed it up 20171120 17:39:47-!- Kranix [~magnus@xd520f683.cust.hiper.dk] has joined #wesnoth 20171120 17:48:18-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has joined #wesnoth 20171120 18:07:10-!- Narrat [~Narrat@p5DED105E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth 20171120 18:33:32-!- vultraz [uid24821@wesnoth/developer/vultraz] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 20171120 18:45:40-!- claymore [~claymore@unaffiliated/claymore] has joined #wesnoth 20171120 19:10:21-!- claymore [~claymore@unaffiliated/claymore] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20171120 19:23:40-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20171120 19:23:47-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20171120 20:08:14-!- soloojos [~soloojos@gateway/tor-sasl/soloojos] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20171120 20:42:50-!- prophile [~alynn@oftn/oswg-member/prophile] has quit [Quit: The Game] 20171120 20:47:41-!- HeyCitiz` [~HeyCitize@sttrpq3809w-lp130-03-67-68-202-39.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught me] 20171120 21:02:44-!- Kranix [~magnus@xd520f683.cust.hiper.dk] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 20171120 21:09:58-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20171120 21:34:24-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has joined #wesnoth 20171120 21:47:09-!- Ravana_ [~Ravana@unaffiliated/ravana/x-2327071] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20171120 21:52:43-!- Bonobo [~Bonobo@14-203-49-124.tpgi.com.au] has joined #wesnoth 20171120 22:47:14-!- Ravana_ [~Ravana@unaffiliated/ravana/x-2327071] has joined #wesnoth 20171120 22:56:31-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20171120 23:21:28-!- vultraz [uid24821@wesnoth/developer/vultraz] has joined #wesnoth 20171120 23:27:47-!- Bhoren [~Bhoren_wh@2a01:e0a:c:2150:1810:6e89:fd61:f0b4] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20171120 23:33:41-!- prophile [~alynn@oftn/oswg-member/prophile] has joined #wesnoth 20171120 23:43:08-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] --- Log closed Tue Nov 21 00:00:26 2017