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20171210 00:55:07< irker514> wesnoth/wesnoth:master Jyrki Vesterinen b710af1716 Fix #2285: GCC-dev compiler warnings AppVeyor: All builds passed
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20171210 07:31:24< irker614> wesnoth/wesnoth:master Gregory A Lundberg 9b54fc0d05 Fix Travis AppVeyor: All builds passed
20171210 07:36:20< irker614> wesnoth/wesnoth:master Victor Sergienko 1ff08503c6 Crash in attack_type::matches_filter - i AppVeyor: All builds passed
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20171210 09:15:24< irker614> wesnoth/wesnoth:master Victor Sergienko 2c403897af Crash in attack_type::matches_filter - i AppVeyor: All builds passed
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20171210 13:46:02< irker614> wesnoth: Gregory A Lundberg wesnoth:master bf2d5fa048c4 / src/ (SConscript macosx/SDLMain.h macosx/SDLMain.mm wesnoth.cpp): Revert "Fix travis osx build." https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/bf2d5fa048c4ee7ae1f2e124c0736d141bb94aa4
20171210 13:46:04< irker614> wesnoth: Gregory A Lundberg wesnoth:master 034ad29a1513 / src/macosx/SDLMain.mm: Fix Travis https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/034ad29a15131086f604ec53aa1616b5c0231961
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20171210 14:16:36< irker614> wesnoth/wesnoth:master Charles Dang 021f35aa96 foooooo AppVeyor: All builds passed
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20171210 17:42:56< irker096> wesnoth/wesnoth:master Gregory A Lundberg 034ad29a15 Fix Travis AppVeyor: All builds passed
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20171210 18:17:59< irker096> wesnoth: Victor Sergienko wesnoth:master e16e4baf791c / src/gettext_boost.cpp: #2094 Work around a crash on a platforms with (supposedly) some Boost/iconv inco https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/e16e4baf791c006352a7032cab4ce85b083d02bb
20171210 18:18:01< irker096> wesnoth: Victor Sergienko wesnoth:master 2c154b580df1 / src/scripting/lua_unit_attacks.cpp: Crash in attack_type::matches_filter - impl_unit_attack_match in some scenarios. https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/2c154b580df12ee3038a7025d7bf0c3d78c43e21
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20171210 21:46:22< irker303> wesnoth/wesnoth:master Victor Sergienko 2c154b580d Crash in attack_type::matches_filter - i AppVeyor: All builds passed
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20171210 21:54:15< Soliton> vultraz: still have any questions about the surrender feature? when do you plan to merge it?
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20171210 22:13:07< vultraz> Soliton: I'm pondering its usefulness in practice
20171210 22:13:27< vultraz> From what I understand, it's supposed to mark your side as defeated
20171210 22:13:57< vultraz> so if you quit without surrendering, the side can be controlled by someone else, but if you quit and surrender, it can't
20171210 22:15:00< vultraz> Wouldn't it make more sense for the host to decide what to do with the side?
20171210 22:15:16< vultraz> How would surrendering work with MP campaigns?
20171210 22:15:36< vultraz> Don't we also want a "surrender and become observer" feature?
20171210 22:15:53< vultraz> which just relinquishes control, but not kills your units
20171210 22:18:30< zookeeper> what's this about killing units again?
20171210 22:18:51< Soliton> if you want the host to decide what to do then don't surrender.
20171210 22:18:54< zookeeper> surely that was only part of the original idea and not part of the current PR implementation.
20171210 22:19:00< vultraz> I can't remember
20171210 22:19:15< zookeeper> well, in that case: no, killing units is not involved.
20171210 22:19:26< vultraz> then what, exactly does surrendering DO
20171210 22:19:42< Soliton> surrendering in mp campaigns probably makes little sense.
20171210 22:19:53< vultraz> say four of us are playing Isar's and Soliton surrenders. What do the other three of us see?
20171210 22:20:09< vultraz> because when I tested, the results of surrendering or nor surrendering seemed the same.
20171210 22:20:11< Soliton> depends on what the teams are.
20171210 22:20:22< vultraz> perhaps that's since the server hadn't been rebuilt, though
20171210 22:20:22< zookeeper> well, of course it's not so clear what should happen in a game with teams of multiple players.
20171210 22:22:07< Soliton> no idea if you can just surrender without quitting. if you currently can't that should be added.
20171210 22:22:30< vultraz> You cannot
20171210 22:22:56< vultraz> I'm thinking surrendering should be decoupled from quitting
20171210 22:23:19< Soliton> it should certainly be coupled with quitting.
20171210 22:23:48< zookeeper> Soliton, really? why? i was thinking they're conceptually not really related. except that having a "surrender and quit" option is handy.
20171210 22:24:14< Soliton> well, in the sense that you should be asked for surrender if you want to quit.
20171210 22:24:38< Soliton> not that you must quit if you surrender. i already mentioned that should be possible,
20171210 22:25:00< zookeeper> right, okay.
20171210 22:25:15< Soliton> the dialog says "Surrender and/or quit game" so it sounds like it is meant to be possible already.
20171210 22:25:24< vultraz> the thing is in his PR, he rolled the Surrender options into the Quit prompt
20171210 22:25:25< Soliton> i haven't tested it though.
20171210 22:25:34< vultraz> with three options
20171210 22:25:41< vultraz> * Quit and surrender
20171210 22:25:44< vultraz> * Quit and not surrender
20171210 22:25:47< vultraz> * Cancel
20171210 22:26:01< vultraz> there was no "Only surrender" option
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20171210 22:26:21< Soliton> well, it's the quit prompt...
20171210 22:26:53< Soliton> there should be an option to surrender besides the quit prompt though.
20171210 22:27:06< vultraz> I'm thinking instead we should have three menu items
20171210 22:27:13< Soliton> surely that's not difficult to add if it's not there yet.
20171210 22:27:14< vultraz> Quit, Surrender, and Surrender and Quit
20171210 22:27:30< vultraz> each with their own yes/no prompt
20171210 22:27:48< vultraz> Quit would exit the game as it always has and hand control to the host
20171210 22:28:15< vultraz> Surrender would make you an observer, and the gamestate would then be considered in order to figure out whether the game is over
20171210 22:28:34< Soliton> so if you press alt+f4 on windows no one will give you a hint to surrender.
20171210 22:29:15< Soliton> these are all minor issues though that should not prevent merging. are there any substantial issues left?
20171210 22:29:32< vultraz> grumble grumble
20171210 22:29:34< vultraz> minor..
20171210 22:29:51< vultraz> yes, the new quit prompt is confusing and badly structured
20171210 22:30:03< zookeeper> random thoughts: surrendering doesn't have to be an action, it can be a state. you can surrender, then unsurrender later (if the game hasn't ended yet, that is if it's not a 1vs1). that way, you don't really have to couple it with quitting or how to pass control to another player etc, except that of course you'd still have a "quit and surrender" shortcut.
20171210 22:30:33< vultraz> (and no one seems able to tell me what surrendering should actually LOOK LIKE to other players)
20171210 22:30:40< vultraz> how will it affect the game
20171210 22:30:41< zookeeper> if soliton surrenders and quits, the host gives vultraz control and vultraz decides he can still win, he can unsurrender and keep playing.
20171210 22:30:43< vultraz> do units disappear?
20171210 22:30:52< vultraz> do they stay but your leader dies?
20171210 22:31:02< zookeeper> it doesn't affect units in any way.
20171210 22:31:06< zookeeper> (or should not)
20171210 22:31:18< vultraz> so, what, they just *sit there*?
20171210 22:31:21< vultraz> O_O
20171210 22:31:34< Soliton> if only there'd be a way to figure that out or someone who implemented the feature you could ask.
20171210 22:32:23< zookeeper> if one player in a team surrenders and the others do not, then yeah i think nothing should really happen.
20171210 22:32:49< vultraz> so it's essentially setting its controller to null
20171210 22:33:16< zookeeper> or whatever the host decides.
20171210 22:33:57< vultraz> so how would this be functionally different from adding another "Surrender this side" option to the host's player-has-quit prompt?
20171210 22:34:26< Soliton> why would the host decide that?
20171210 22:34:37< zookeeper> at least because then in a 1vs1 the other player (the host) would just win instead of having to decide that their opponent surrendered.
20171210 22:34:59< vultraz> but the opponent quit...
20171210 22:35:02< vultraz> they win anyway
20171210 22:35:34< zookeeper> maybe they just surrendered and didn't quit. and currently no, the opponent quitting doesn't make you "win".
20171210 22:35:53< vultraz> yes, since you can replace them with AI
20171210 22:36:01< zookeeper> Soliton, well, because if a player surrenders then they shouldn't stay in control of that side (assuming my state idea isn't used), which means someone has to decide on the new controller, so seems natural to let the host decide as usual.
20171210 22:36:04< vultraz> but if you don't want to do that you say say Game Over and win
20171210 22:36:41< vultraz> only difference is the other player can essentially say, "No, the game IS OVER, you don't get to play more against an AI"
20171210 22:36:48< Soliton> zookeeper: ok, why should the host be the only one to decide surrender?
20171210 22:36:57< vultraz> and i can see many situations this could be abused, honestly
20171210 22:37:08< vultraz> especially if we don't have zookeeper's "unsurrender" option
20171210 22:37:26< vultraz> say you're playing SXRPG with 5 players and 1 surrenders
20171210 22:37:30< vultraz> you kinda NEED 5 players for that map
20171210 22:37:36< vultraz> but now the host can't make it an AI
20171210 22:37:55< zookeeper> Soliton, no i meant the host would decide the new controller for the side that surrendered (because the surrendering player should get kicked out of the controller seat)
20171210 22:38:25< vultraz> zookeeper: in which surrendering is no different from quitting, except you're saying they should become an observer!
20171210 22:38:32< vultraz> that's what I've been proposing
20171210 22:38:44< Ravana_> surrender use case was automated crawling of game results
20171210 22:38:51< Soliton> people will still be able to be dicks. no change there. surprise.
20171210 22:38:53< Ravana_> so it should log message that x surrendered
20171210 22:38:59< vultraz> surrendering as a "quit without quitting" 
20171210 22:39:31< vultraz> but if it's quit without quitting, then it should have no connection with quitting
20171210 22:39:41< vultraz> so let's make it two separate options
20171210 22:39:48< Soliton> we've already covered this.
20171210 22:40:16< vultraz> * Quit functions as normal, you're out of the game, host decides what to do
20171210 22:40:29< zookeeper> well, i do agree it's very unclear what the best high-level approach to the whole thing is ;)
20171210 22:40:33< vultraz> * Surrender means you cede control but remain an observer, host decides what to do
20171210 22:40:50< vultraz> and no Quit and Surrender because that's just QUIT
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20171210 22:41:11< vultraz> how's that sound?
20171210 22:41:53< Soliton> not defaulting/asking to surrender when you quit sounds like a bad idea.
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20171210 22:42:38< vultraz> do you mean so there's the appropriate "side surrendered" entry in the metadata?
20171210 22:42:42< Soliton> to not even have a shortcut for that is just having the player go through useless steps.
20171210 22:43:06< Soliton> yes.
20171210 22:43:29< vultraz> what if then Surrender and Quit is exactly the same as Quit from the player and host's PoV, except it's recorded as a surrender and not a quit
20171210 22:43:30< Soliton> the whole point of the surrender feature is to have properly ending games.
20171210 22:44:08< Soliton> you don't want to record a surrender if a player disconnects.
20171210 22:44:29< vultraz> right
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20171210 22:44:45< vultraz> but the host should still get to decide what to do with a surrendered side
20171210 22:44:48< vultraz> right?
20171210 22:44:53< zookeeper> and thus an important would seem to be that regardless of how the other players quit, the host should still be able to choose something that makes the game end properly.
20171210 22:44:54< Soliton> sure.
20171210 22:45:00< zookeeper> +point
20171210 22:45:09< Soliton> if the game isn't already over then.
20171210 22:45:14< zookeeper> yeah
20171210 22:45:48< vultraz> alright, this makes sense
20171210 22:46:09< vultraz> in which case it is true that a Surrender option should be part of the Quit prompt
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20171210 22:47:33< vultraz> I guess we're agreed, then
20171210 22:48:48< vultraz> I'll rework his PR after I finish this GUI2 refactoring
20171210 22:49:12< zookeeper> i'm sure we've agreed on something, i'm just not sure what all that entails :p
20171210 22:50:28< Soliton> is there an issue with doing that rework in master?
20171210 22:50:45< vultraz> what do you mean?
20171210 22:51:26< Soliton> merge the PR and do dialog tweaks or whatever you want to rework whenever.
20171210 22:51:44< vultraz> it WAS merged manually, then reverted
20171210 22:52:01< vultraz> I'd rather not revert the revert and instead start with a fresh commit
20171210 22:52:31< Soliton> the reason being?
20171210 22:52:58< vultraz> cleaner?
20171210 22:53:08< vultraz> is there some reason you need this in immediately?
20171210 22:53:14< Soliton> yu've already made a mess not much we can do about that now.
20171210 22:53:16< vultraz> are you hosting a tournament or something?
20171210 22:53:58< Soliton> i want to avoid pissing new contributors off as much as possible.
20171210 22:54:24< vultraz> Give me a day or two
20171210 22:54:53< vultraz> I want to work on it because at this point asking the guy to rework it further is just rude
20171210 22:55:18< Soliton> what's currently happening in the PR is just rude.
20171210 22:55:36< irker303> wesnoth/wesnoth:master Charles Dang 7707fd1b2b jweiodjiowjeionwoi AppVeyor: vs2013/Debug Failed
20171210 22:55:37< irker303> Details: https://ci.appveyor.com/project/wesnoth/wesnoth/build/Wesnoth-VS2013-master-918
20171210 22:55:42< Soliton> a patronising "let us take it from here" and no explanation on what that even means.
20171210 22:55:46< vultraz> alright, I'll post a message...
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20171210 23:07:14< vultraz> Soliton: is that acceptable?
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20171210 23:11:43< Soliton> i'd add the "if the game hasn't ended then" part. not sure if that is different from how the PR works already anyway.
20171210 23:11:58< Soliton> looks good otherwise.
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--- Log closed Mon Dec 11 00:00:56 2017