--- Log opened Mon Dec 11 00:00:56 2017 20171211 01:04:43< wesnoth-discord-> Yeah, the liminal bonus should actually show up in-game. 20171211 01:41:50-!- Narrat [~Narrat@p5DCC6A81.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance.] 20171211 01:44:00< wesnoth-discord-> That too obviously! First thing, any bonus. XD 20171211 01:44:11< wesnoth-discord-> 30% at dusk/dawn does not sound OP to me. 20171211 01:44:27< wesnoth-discord-> Especialy if they're going to be -25% at day and night. 20171211 02:09:20< wesnoth-discord-> @EastGuardian there isn't a bonus 20171211 02:09:51< wesnoth-discord-> What? 20171211 02:10:01< wesnoth-discord-> Then, what does liminal even do? 20171211 02:10:04< wesnoth-discord-> During the day and night, -25% 20171211 02:10:49< wesnoth-discord-> The thing is, a balanced liminal unit will have more base damage than the other alignments 20171211 02:11:21< wesnoth-discord-> Which means that liminal units can't be used alone 20171211 02:11:41< wesnoth-discord-> But they're very good for defending during the off-hours and beginning the dawn/dusk push 20171211 03:26:41-!- ArneBab [~quassel@55d44f37.access.ecotel.net] has joined #wesnoth 20171211 03:26:41-!- ArneBab [~quassel@55d44f37.access.ecotel.net] has quit [Changing host] 20171211 03:26:41-!- ArneBab [~quassel@freenet/developer/arnebab] has joined #wesnoth 20171211 03:30:27-!- ArneBab_ [~quassel@freenet/developer/arnebab] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20171211 03:48:22< wesnoth-discord-> So in effect a liminal unit will be something like -10% during the day and night and +20% at dawn and dusk 20171211 03:57:13< wesnoth-discord-> @pydsigner So basically, they have really high base stats, but are hampered during day/night? That's odd. 20171211 03:57:42< wesnoth-discord-> I think that's the general idea. 20171211 03:57:45< wesnoth-discord-> I don't really like it. 20171211 03:58:10< wesnoth-discord-> Because you have to do math manually to compare the power of two units 20171211 03:58:13< wesnoth-discord-> I think I'd honestly prefer it if their base stats where cut and liminal just gave a bonus like lawful/chaoitic do. 20171211 03:58:46< wesnoth-discord-> But that still doesn't work 20171211 04:00:04< wesnoth-discord-> Because 4x-25% + 2x25% โ‰  2x-25% + 2x0% + 2x25% 20171211 04:00:38< wesnoth-discord-> @pydsigner I was thinking liminal's bonus could be higher than 25% and their debuff could be lower. 20171211 04:00:51< wesnoth-discord-> Say 30%/15%. 20171211 04:01:02< wesnoth-discord-> That also doesn't work well because these things round 20171211 04:01:12< wesnoth-discord-> Hrnn. ๐Ÿค” 20171211 04:01:22< wesnoth-discord-> So let's say you have a 3-6 neutral fighter 20171211 04:01:49< wesnoth-discord-> * 6-3 20171211 04:01:59< wesnoth-discord-> Is it possible to have a gradiant? Say, liminals are +25% at dawn/dusk, 0% in the first day/night stage, and -25% in second day/night? 20171211 04:03:15< Ravana_> I only use liminal as easy way to weaken one free summoned unit. No recruitable unit ever has such alignment 20171211 04:03:30< wesnoth-discord-> (6 * 130% = 7.8 rounding to 8, but 6* 125% = 7.5 also rounding to 8) 20171211 04:04:09< wesnoth-discord-> @Grandos that would be more potentially effective, except that you'd have a jump from -25% directly to 25% 20171211 04:04:17< wesnoth-discord-> And also the engine wouldn't support that. 20171211 04:05:06< wesnoth-discord-> Did that s/ come through to IRC? 20171211 04:05:18< wesnoth-discord-> Didn't realize Discord recognized that as a command 20171211 04:05:43< wesnoth-discord-> * the engine doesn't support that sort of gradient 20171211 04:06:11< wesnoth-discord-> Remember, there are non-standard time schedules 20171211 04:06:41< wesnoth-discord-> So the way Wesnoth works it is that there is one number for each time of day 20171211 04:06:56< wesnoth-discord-> That number is the percentage bonus a lawful unit receives 20171211 04:07:04< wesnoth-discord-> So at night it's -25% 20171211 04:07:18< wesnoth-discord-> For a lawful unit, the bonus is of course just the percentage 20171211 04:07:42< wesnoth-discord-> For a chaotic unit, it's the negative of whatever the lawful percentage is 20171211 04:07:48< wesnoth-discord-> So --25% = +25% 20171211 04:08:01< wesnoth-discord-> For a neutral unit, there's no application of the bonus 20171211 04:08:06< wesnoth-discord-> But for a liminal unit, 20171211 04:08:14< wesnoth-discord-> An absolute is applied 20171211 04:08:23< wesnoth-discord-> And then subtracted 20171211 04:08:37< wesnoth-discord-> So you get -abs(-25%) = -25% 20171211 04:08:52< wesnoth-discord-> During the day, it's -abs(25%) = also -25% 20171211 04:09:49< wesnoth-discord-> In order to have different values for early night and late night, you'd have to 100% rewrite all of the ToD bonus code and all of the existing ToDs in mainline and UMC 20171211 04:10:14< wesnoth-discord-> @pydsigner So that is a no. Too difficult. 20171211 04:10:16< wesnoth-discord-> XD 20171211 04:11:09< wesnoth-discord-> Yep 20171211 04:11:58< wesnoth-discord-> couldn't you instead make it so it's possible to specify ToD bonuses in the unit type, with chaotic/neutral/lawful units defaulting to their current values? 20171211 04:12:13< wesnoth-discord-> Unfortunately no 20171211 04:12:34< wesnoth-discord-> That would only work with a restricted list of ToDs 20171211 04:12:50< wesnoth-discord-> There are over 30 ToDs just in mainline 20171211 04:13:41< wesnoth-discord-> You'd have the same sort of problem as you get when someone uses a non-standard damage type 20171211 04:14:52< wesnoth-discord-> Except that now it's incompatibility between units and maps instead of units and other units 20171211 04:15:27< wesnoth-discord-> And 20171211 04:15:51< wesnoth-discord-> What happens if you have a unit with the illuminates ability? 20171211 04:16:30< wesnoth-discord-> Right now time of day is a single number that's handled in 4 distinct ways 20171211 04:17:28< wesnoth-discord-> I feel like the better solution is to not use liminal, but that bridge is unfortunately a few burnt boats back towards the emerald isle. 20171211 04:22:34< wesnoth-discord-> Meh. 20171211 04:22:35< wesnoth-discord-> @pydsigner Hrnn. As is, without a ToD rewrite. it'd be difficult to balance liminal properly. If you gave them no debuff in day/night and a bonus in dusk/dawn, that effectively just makes them better neutral units. If they have a debuff in day/night and a bonus in dusk/dawn, they're worse than lawful and chaotic. As they are now, they're just kind of... "Ehhhhhh" and complicate to use correctly. 20171211 04:22:50< wesnoth-discord-> Pretty much 20171211 04:23:09< wesnoth-discord-> The Khalifate are really a sticky problem 20171211 04:23:38< wesnoth-discord-> That, said the Jundi line is pretty decent actually. XD 20171211 04:24:36< wesnoth-discord-> It's a bodge of real world context shoe-horned into a fantasy game, with no in-game lore, intended only for MP, but with so many unique traits as to be practically imbalanced if not theoretically. 20171211 04:25:10< wesnoth-discord-> Only ML units with melee marksman? Check 20171211 04:25:27< wesnoth-discord-> Only units with massive damage one-shot attack? Check 20171211 04:25:30< wesnoth-discord-> ML? 20171211 04:25:35< wesnoth-discord-> MainLine 20171211 04:25:38< wesnoth-discord-> @Pentarctagon mainline 20171211 04:25:56< wesnoth-discord-> Only units with confusing alignment? Check 20171211 04:26:10< wesnoth-discord-> welllll 20171211 04:26:15< wesnoth-discord-> dragonguards can 1shot ๐Ÿ˜› 20171211 04:26:24< wesnoth-discord-> Ah true 20171211 04:26:27< wesnoth-discord-> That's ranged though 20171211 04:27:01< wesnoth-discord-> But yeah I forgot about the thunderer line there 20171211 04:28:07< wesnoth-discord-> They also have bizarre resists and defenses 20171211 04:28:20< wesnoth-discord-> so khalifate are mainline? 20171211 04:28:26< wesnoth-discord-> didn't actually kno that 20171211 04:28:52< wesnoth-discord-> I would've though aragwraithi would be if anything 20171211 04:29:05< wesnoth-discord-> That's because almost no-one plays with them in MP and there isn't any SP content in mainline 20171211 04:29:16< wesnoth-discord-> I think that unit line is going for this sort of idea: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cataphract. In which case, a high damage lance is actually a decent idea. It does lots of damage, but since the horse and rider are really heavily armored, you can argue that the "charge" ability shouldn't apply. I think that's the rationale anyway. 20171211 04:29:38< wesnoth-discord-> @Grandos certainly there's a logical argument for it 20171211 04:29:47< wesnoth-discord-> But logical and "works in a game" are different things 20171211 04:30:03< wesnoth-discord-> I think they are definitely an interesting faction idea, at the least. 20171211 04:30:05< wesnoth-discord-> wesnoth units aren't balanced around lore power 20171211 04:30:10< wesnoth-discord-> for sure 20171211 04:30:21< wesnoth-discord-> otherwise you'd have "legendary" lvl 4s wiping out armies 20171211 04:31:28< wesnoth-discord-> In principle I don't think the Khalifate being different is a bad thing. It wouldn't make sense to add them if they were too similar to existing factions. But they were added and then sort of abandoned without any of their issues being sorted out. 20171211 04:31:56< wesnoth-discord-> Right, every faction has its own little unique trait 20171211 04:32:45< wesnoth-discord-> Multiplayer did lack a desert faction. Unless you wanted to multiplayer the new Desert Elf line. 20171211 04:33:12< wesnoth-discord-> You can't survive in MP using a desert faction 20171211 04:33:18< wesnoth-discord-> None of the maps are balanced for that 20171211 04:34:10< wesnoth-discord-> The units also tend to be very expensive and there's no good anti-horse unit 20171211 04:34:19< wesnoth-discord-> Other than more horse 20171211 04:35:00< wesnoth-discord-> It's wierd how their first spear unit is a level 2 yeah. You'd think it'd have a level 1. 20171211 04:35:28< wesnoth-discord-> I mean there's the jundi, but that's a dual purpose unit that's almost always going be fighting from 5-3 20171211 04:36:26< wesnoth-discord-> The loyalists vs khalifate matchup seems terribly balanced to me. 20171211 04:36:29< wesnoth-discord-> Plus you get less HP than the loyalist archer 20171211 04:36:40< wesnoth-discord-> Which is a cheaper unit 20171211 04:37:22< wesnoth-discord-> What if you took the level 1 unit of the melee marksmen line, replace it's sword with a spear? Just make it do pierce damage. 20171211 04:37:29< wesnoth-discord-> The Arif is a terrible defensive unit currently 20171211 04:38:33< wesnoth-discord-> Another issue is the names. Every other faction has easily remembered names. For most of the Khali units, you could just translate the names and it would be good. 20171211 04:38:50< wesnoth-discord-> I honestly would be fine with stuff like 20171211 04:38:54< wesnoth-discord-> Desert Swordsman 20171211 04:38:59< wesnoth-discord-> Which actually tells you something 20171211 04:39:10< wesnoth-discord-> I like "Hillmen" for the Jundi. 20171211 04:39:14< wesnoth-discord-> For me, the names add to the uniqueness of the faction, even though they are hard to remember. 20171211 04:39:16< wesnoth-discord-> Since it's in their description. 20171211 04:39:32< wesnoth-discord-> @Hamel sure they add to the uniqueness, but it doesn't fit at all 20171211 04:39:37< wesnoth-discord-> well, there is a thread going on about renaming the faction and units: https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=47643 20171211 04:39:39< wesnoth-discord-> Every other unit name is english 20171211 04:39:50< wesnoth-discord-> Elvish Archer 20171211 04:39:54< wesnoth-discord-> Yeah 20171211 04:40:01< wesnoth-discord-> Yeah 20171211 04:40:29< wesnoth-discord-> Oh I hadn't seen this thread 20171211 04:40:41< wesnoth-discord-> @Pentarctagon I know. I quite like Can-ned's post at the bottom of page 7. 20171211 04:41:00< wesnoth-discord-> For me, I like the faction's base idea, but I think it could be balanced a lot better. 20171211 04:41:33< wesnoth-discord-> Like the loys vs the khalifate seems badly balanced to me. 20171211 04:41:42< wesnoth-discord-> @Hamel For sure. Unless your fighting say... undead, the Naffat line is garbage. A Jundi does more dammage most the time. 20171211 04:42:12< wesnoth-discord-> Yeah 20171211 04:42:46< wesnoth-discord-> A leadership unit line would be sort of helpful too. 20171211 04:42:50< wesnoth-discord-> Would it be weird to have Arif use the accuracy/parry mechanic, instead of marksman/chance-to-hit? No one else uses it, if that mechanism were to be made palatable and understood by players, this might make sense. 20171211 04:43:04< wesnoth-discord-> @doofus-01 Accuracy/parry mechanic? 20171211 04:43:22< wesnoth-discord-> What's that? 20171211 04:43:42< wesnoth-discord-> Oh, marksmen, but just for offense/defense, respectivly? 20171211 04:43:47< wesnoth-discord-> Without playing it out, if I was going up against khalifate I would probably spam heavy infantry, cav, and spearmen 20171211 04:44:23< wesnoth-discord-> Which is boooooring 20171211 04:44:52< wesnoth-discord-> @Grandos , @Hamel - It's part of available attack options : https://wiki.wesnoth.org/UnitTypeWML#Attacks 20171211 04:45:03< wesnoth-discord-> oh, okay 20171211 04:45:15< wesnoth-discord-> ๐Ÿ˜ฎ 20171211 04:45:31< wesnoth-discord-> Yeah, in a matchup I played out once, the Khalifs made it to the center of the battlefield, and then just got swarmed and utterly destroyed by the Loys. 20171211 04:45:39< wesnoth-discord-> @doofus-01 That could work well. You could make the spear line better by giving them parry values. And give the sword line accuracy. 20171211 04:46:45< wesnoth-discord-> Accuracy/parry isn't used in other mainline units, do you think the "new" mechanic would be confusing? 20171211 04:47:04< Ravana_> there is no UI hint, what those values mean - only visible when actually going to attack selection 20171211 04:47:24< wesnoth-discord-> @doofus-01 I think it'd be more intuitive for most players if they were remade into abilities like marksmen. 20171211 04:47:32< wesnoth-discord-> It'd be more a matter of how it was displayed, wouldn't it? 20171211 04:47:59< wesnoth-discord-> Certainly for me, I didn't know these WML values existed before @doofus-01 20171211 04:48:01< wesnoth-discord-> As long as it's easy for players to see what it does, I think it'd be fine. 20171211 04:49:30< wesnoth-discord-> They'd need to be added to the UI 20171211 04:49:35< wesnoth-discord-> And probably the AI as well 20171211 04:49:38< wesnoth-discord-> tbh accuracy/parry seems like a thing that could be used by the fence rline 20171211 04:49:52< wesnoth-discord-> @Yumi Ooooh. I like that idea. 20171211 04:50:11< wesnoth-discord-> fencers already kinda have it though, given their already higher dodge chance 20171211 04:50:22< wesnoth-discord-> yup 20171211 04:50:27< wesnoth-discord-> so it might be tricky to do 20171211 04:50:56< wesnoth-discord-> Putting it on their melee would be redundent, and putting it on the level 2+'s range wouldn't make much sense 20171211 04:51:58< wesnoth-discord-> I think parry on fencers makes more sense. Fencing as a fighting style calls for parrying. Plus it ties into how fencers can be used. You could park a fencer on high dodge terrain and force the enemy to go around or attack them for "guaranteed" low damage. 20171211 04:52:51< wesnoth-discord-> Hmm reading through that thread\ 20171211 04:53:02< wesnoth-discord-> Thoughts on Desert Clans as a faction name? 20171211 04:54:00< wesnoth-discord-> I like Dunefolk as a general name, and Southerns as a Multiplayer faction name. (counterpart to northerners.) 20171211 04:54:08< wesnoth-discord-> I think something like that would fit well, if we were to switch the words to English. 20171211 04:54:26< wesnoth-discord-> @Grandos Oh, that sounds good. 20171211 04:54:40< wesnoth-discord-> Guys, I'm checking out because I don't have any good answers WRT accuracy/parry, but the feedback is appreciated and there may be something we can do about it. 20171211 04:55:22< wesnoth-discord-> Okay. 20171211 04:55:51< wesnoth-discord-> Okay. 20171211 04:56:16< wesnoth-discord-> I really like Can-ned Food's suggestion in thread that they basically be semi-nomadic but with a few cities in oasis and such. My rationale for this would be, in contrast to standard human kingdoms like Wesnoth, the "peasants" of the Dunefolk are mostly herders, moving from one sparse patch of desert grass to another. 20171211 04:56:37< wesnoth-discord-> You can't really be tied down in a desert 20171211 04:57:11< wesnoth-discord-> The ecology isn't capable of sustaining an immobile pre-irrigation civiliation 20171211 04:57:44< wesnoth-discord-> given they're supposed to be more science based, they'd probably have figured out irrigation 20171211 04:58:35< wesnoth-discord-> The Scythians would be semi-nomadic people of the south. 20171211 04:58:37< wesnoth-discord-> @pydsigner Desert and hills. Also they're not "terrible" in plains or forests either. Also, that's where the semi-nomadic part comes in. They'd be basically a "mixed" economy, with herding and agriculture in apporopriate areas. But even in the modern world, in some areas such as say Mongolia, it still makes sense to be a wandering herder. 20171211 04:59:19< wesnoth-discord-> The Khalifate does not look nomadic. 20171211 04:59:54< wesnoth-discord-> So, having more nomadic factions in the south would be a good idea. 20171211 05:00:48< wesnoth-discord-> Honestly they look, with the exception of the naffat line and the horse archer line, more Persian than anything. 20171211 05:01:04< wesnoth-discord-> Problem is, do we still have the Scythians? 20171211 05:01:17< wesnoth-discord-> I want more cataphracts from Scythia. 20171211 05:01:26< wesnoth-discord-> Did they arrive to Irdya before or after Haldric's people? 20171211 05:01:52< wesnoth-discord-> My headcanon for the Scythians is after. 20171211 05:02:12< wesnoth-discord-> Is that an add-on faction? 20171211 05:02:28< wesnoth-discord-> I found an old add-on which had those. 20171211 05:02:37< wesnoth-discord-> We could search that in the forums. 20171211 05:02:41< wesnoth-discord-> Oh, okay. 20171211 05:02:55< wesnoth-discord-> It had units such as chariots and horse archers. 20171211 05:03:12< wesnoth-discord-> @Pentarctagon enough to have a couple of towns or cities right on water, perhaps 20171211 05:03:16< wesnoth-discord-> Sounds cool. 20171211 05:03:27< wesnoth-discord-> But nothing near modern engineering 20171211 05:03:59< wesnoth-discord-> Warning: The Scythians were an RL people group 20171211 05:04:00< wesnoth-discord-> My presumption for the Khalifs is they arrived after Haldric's people in the south. 20171211 05:04:01< wesnoth-discord-> I could redo that faction since I have the files. But, with no infantry this time. Just cavalry and chariots. 20171211 05:04:34< wesnoth-discord-> @pydsigner yes, and there was/is an add-on which contained Scythians 20171211 05:05:01< wesnoth-discord-> A faction with cavalry and chariots only would dominate plains and deserts. 20171211 05:07:50< wesnoth-discord-> Was it ever specified where the Scythians lived in the add-on? 20171211 05:08:55< wesnoth-discord-> One would assume in Scythia. 20171211 05:09:50< wesnoth-discord-> No. 20171211 05:10:08< wesnoth-discord-> I am planning to put them between southern Wesnoth and the Khalifate. 20171211 05:10:22< wesnoth-discord-> I'm not the developer of that add-on, though. 20171211 05:10:37< wesnoth-discord-> So, south of Kerlash? 20171211 05:11:01< wesnoth-discord-> Or East? 20171211 05:11:40< wesnoth-discord-> The southern deserts and steppes. 20171211 05:11:48< wesnoth-discord-> Okay. 20171211 05:12:36< wesnoth-discord-> @EastGuardian East has an advantage though. You could have the Clansmen be a related people. Perhaps the clansmen are the result of Wesnothian and Scythian mixture. 20171211 05:13:28< wesnoth-discord-> That's an interesting idea. 20171211 05:14:09< wesnoth-discord-> So, then would the Scythians be of Wesnothian origin and then split off? 20171211 05:14:24< wesnoth-discord-> Yes. 20171211 05:14:47< wesnoth-discord-> They could be related to the Horse clans. 20171211 05:14:56< wesnoth-discord-> Through a civil war or something? 20171211 05:15:44< wesnoth-discord-> I am writing a story as to how the Scythians and the Khalifate were constantly fighting against one another. The latter enslaved the former until someone rebelled and restored the Scythian khanate. 20171211 05:16:19< wesnoth-discord-> Sounds interesting. 20171211 05:16:30< wesnoth-discord-> Have a particular reason? 20171211 05:17:02< wesnoth-discord-> The rebel leader is a descendant of the last Scythian khan. 20171211 05:17:28< wesnoth-discord-> Okay. 20171211 05:17:29< wesnoth-discord-> His grandfather got killed by the previous Khalid. 20171211 05:17:45< wesnoth-discord-> So, he's out for revenge. 20171211 05:17:46< wesnoth-discord-> Nice idea. 20171211 05:17:50< wesnoth-discord-> I like it. 20171211 05:18:18< wesnoth-discord-> I'm aftually putting that as part lf a megacampaign I'm doing where it would be alt-history. 20171211 05:18:29< wesnoth-discord-> Okay. 20171211 05:19:00< wesnoth-discord-> Basically, UTBS won't happen in this. 20171211 05:19:14< wesnoth-discord-> Hence, alt-history. 20171211 05:19:51< wesnoth-discord-> So, were the Khalifs there before Haldric's people. 20171211 05:19:57< wesnoth-discord-> @EastGuardian You could use "Saka" for the faction name. 1. It's not as recognizable as Scythian. 2. Saka was the Scythian's name for themselves. 20171211 05:20:12< wesnoth-discord-> Yes, the Saka Khanate. 20171211 05:20:24< wesnoth-discord-> I'm not sure for the Khalifate, though. 20171211 05:21:05< wesnoth-discord-> @EastGuardian And maybe "Eastern Horde" as multiplayer faction name? 20171211 05:21:10< wesnoth-discord-> The Saka had split from the Horse Clans due to a drought. Those who remained east became the Horse Clans that we have come to know. Those who went south became the Saka. 20171211 05:21:31< wesnoth-discord-> Cool. 20171211 05:21:46< wesnoth-discord-> So, were the Khalifs there before Haldric's people? 20171211 05:22:44< wesnoth-discord-> The Saka would be nomadic. Even their buildings are mobile. As for the Khalifate, this is tricky. If they came before Haldric, then would they be the original inhabitants? If they came after Haldric, why would they leave? 20171211 05:23:07< wesnoth-discord-> After all, the Khalifate is said to be ignorant of Wesnothians. 20171211 05:23:38< wesnoth-discord-> IIRC the Khalifate comes from the south on a land bridge from the Old Contient. 20171211 05:23:42< wesnoth-discord-> And, I think another part of it you should consider is where they originally came from. 20171211 05:24:22< wesnoth-discord-> I've never seen that. Is it in a forum or something? 20171211 05:24:23< wesnoth-discord-> The main part of the megacampaign involves the last king of Wesnoth and his long-lost brother. 20171211 05:25:25< wesnoth-discord-> His cousin abolishes the kingdom and institutes an empire in it's place. This won't be the same empire which caused the backstory of UTBS. 20171211 05:25:51< wesnoth-discord-> Okay. 20171211 05:26:14< wesnoth-discord-> https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=41423 @Hamel Second post here. It's just an idea I think, but it makes some sense to me. 20171211 05:26:41< wesnoth-discord-> Okay. I'll check it out later. Thanks. 20171211 05:27:48< wesnoth-discord-> This is a little off, but since we see Woses on both the Green Isle and Irdya, where are they from, and how'd they get to the other place? 20171211 05:28:46< wesnoth-discord-> I found Scythia. https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=38005&p=566671&hilit=Scythia#p566671 20171211 05:28:54< wesnoth-discord-> Like we see some in TRoW, and then we see some in later campaigns on a different continent. 20171211 05:29:05< wesnoth-discord-> I'm gonna look for HaChoi's addon. 20171211 05:29:09< wesnoth-discord-> Oh, okay. I'll check that on 20171211 05:29:09< wesnoth-discord-> I think Woses are sort of natural guardians of the woods, with some connection to the Farrie world. 20171211 05:29:22< wesnoth-discord-> Okay. 20171211 05:29:46< wesnoth-discord-> So, in that way, would they just have been always 'there'? 20171211 05:30:13< wesnoth-discord-> I think so. 20171211 05:30:23< wesnoth-discord-> Hmm. Okay, 20171211 05:30:51< wesnoth-discord-> Also, where did the Dwarves come from if Elves were on Irdya first? 20171211 05:31:03< wesnoth-discord-> And why'd they leave? 20171211 05:31:47-!- celmin|sleep [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has quit [Quit: KABOOM! It seems that I have exploded. Please wait while I reinstall the universe.] 20171211 05:32:39< wesnoth-discord-> Isn't it specified they were the 3rd race there, after the Elves and Trolls, respectively? 20171211 05:33:47< wesnoth-discord-> https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=47643&p=620774#p620774 20171211 05:35:00< wesnoth-discord-> @Pentarctagon @Grandos ^ here are my thoughts 20171211 05:39:08< wesnoth-discord-> @pydsigner Your mention of clans made me think of this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Parthian_clans. A decent idea for Khalifate goverment would be "multiple competting feudal clans, sometimes united in an Empire, always at each other's throats." 20171211 05:39:34< wesnoth-discord-> Sorta like orcs? 20171211 05:40:17< wesnoth-discord-> @Hamel More civilized. Less Mad Max, more game of thrones. 20171211 05:40:18< wesnoth-discord-> XD 20171211 05:40:25< wesnoth-discord-> @Grandos I kinda like that tagline 20171211 05:40:32< wesnoth-discord-> Oh, Okay. 20171211 05:41:04< wesnoth-discord-> Never seen the show, but I sorta know the plot and other details. 20171211 05:43:12< wesnoth-discord-> @pydsigner Basically my head-canon that I just came up with is that there'd be multiple clans/tribes or whatever claiming descent from various legendary people. Maybe Jinns? And that most of the time, they'd be united under the rule of a Khalid, but they still retain this sort of independence and raid each other a lot and scheme against one another. And in bad times they pretty much are independent kingdoms. 20171211 05:43:31< wesnoth-discord-> Ah, okay. 20171211 05:43:36< wesnoth-discord-> Cool. 20171211 05:43:53< wesnoth-discord-> Like you said, more civilized orcs. 20171211 05:45:22< wesnoth-discord-> @Hamel Well, historically, a sort of "neighborly raiding" attitude isn't unusual for nomadic cultures. Even allied groups might raid one another for wives or cattle. 20171211 05:45:44< wesnoth-discord-> Ah, ok. 20171211 05:46:14< wesnoth-discord-> So, you can't trust anyone 20171211 05:46:15< wesnoth-discord-> Hence, the Saka-Khalifate Wars. 20171211 05:46:32< wesnoth-discord-> I think you'd have some dynamics with city vs. nomadics as well 20171211 05:46:43< wesnoth-discord-> Kingdom Hunger Games XD 20171211 05:46:43< wesnoth-discord-> Yes 20171211 05:48:16< wesnoth-discord-> You'd have your alchemists in the cities primarily 20171211 05:48:18< wesnoth-discord-> Interesting. 20171211 05:48:27< wesnoth-discord-> But I think you'd have more warlords arising in the desert 20171211 05:48:29< wesnoth-discord-> @pydsigner Of course~! Naffat too. 20171211 05:48:32< wesnoth-discord-> Yes 20171211 05:48:52< wesnoth-discord-> Also, probably the Heavy cavalry and afir lines seem more like what settled peoples would use to me. 20171211 05:49:10< wesnoth-discord-> Nomadic khalifate armies would be more jundi and horse archers I think. 20171211 05:49:26< wesnoth-discord-> The Saka would have light and heavy cavalry along with chariots. 20171211 05:49:41< wesnoth-discord-> I think you'd see the Desert Horsemen on the outskirts of the cities 20171211 05:50:05< wesnoth-discord-> I wish that I have my old PC with me so that I can type and program things a lot more easily. 20171211 05:50:37< wesnoth-discord-> Do y'all think a tier 3 healer would be too much? 20171211 05:50:54< wesnoth-discord-> Level 3 Hakim? 20171211 05:50:59< wesnoth-discord-> The Desert Riders or Horse Archers would be the true nomads 20171211 05:51:07< wesnoth-discord-> @Hamel Yeah. 20171211 05:51:26< wesnoth-discord-> For an MP faction it doesn't really matter currently 20171211 05:51:44< wesnoth-discord-> But it wouldn't hurt for there to be a +8 cures 20171211 05:51:48< wesnoth-discord-> I think it'd be okay, if it was just balanced out. 20171211 05:51:58< wesnoth-discord-> * an +8/cures 20171211 05:52:06< wesnoth-discord-> @pydsigner Level 2 does that already. 20171211 05:52:08-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth 20171211 05:52:22< wesnoth-discord-> Oh you're right 20171211 05:52:34< wesnoth-discord-> Lvl 1 just is +8, right? 20171211 05:52:34< wesnoth-discord-> I thought the level 1 was just +4 heals and the level 2 +8 hears 20171211 05:52:37< wesnoth-discord-> * heals 20171211 05:52:39< wesnoth-discord-> Yeah 20171211 05:52:45< wesnoth-discord-> Okay 20171211 05:53:20< wesnoth-discord-> I was thinking the Level 3 could maybe get a poision or a slow. The Hakim line are alchemists after all. 20171211 05:53:34< wesnoth-discord-> Yeah. 20171211 05:54:05< wesnoth-discord-> Always thought it was interesting the Khalifs don't have any magic. 20171211 05:54:33< wesnoth-discord-> Also the Level 2 ones are actually half-decent in melee, so the Level 3 ones being actually "good" in melee cold be interesting. 20171211 05:55:07< wesnoth-discord-> Yeah. 20171211 05:55:22< wesnoth-discord-> That'd be quite interesting. 20171211 05:56:15< wesnoth-discord-> So, would there only be a 'central' government of the Khalifs at times, and at other times, they're all completely seperate? 20171211 05:57:53< wesnoth-discord-> @Hamel Basically. My idea is that nomadic governments are generally fluid anyway. Think of say mongols or Turks. They have multiple competing clans, but occasionally a warlord will unite them, they'll go take over some settled people, found an Empire, and in a couple hundred years another nomadic group will do the same thing to them. 20171211 05:58:01< wesnoth-discord-> The Saka has no magic, but some of their horsemen have become Crusaders. 20171211 05:58:15< wesnoth-discord-> Okay. 20171211 05:58:15< wesnoth-discord-> Crusaders are basically buffed-up paladins. 20171211 05:58:21< wesnoth-discord-> Cool. 20171211 05:59:19< wesnoth-discord-> Are the Khalifs mostly fighting each other? 20171211 06:00:56< wesnoth-discord-> My sort of Iron-Age Britain faction I'm brainstorming has an anti-magic warrior line. Basically they wear woad paint that "repels" magic in a way. Like this: https://pre00.deviantart.net/21f8/th/pre/i/2014/077/a/3/woad_face_by_sylvansmith-d7anq9j.jpg I'm not sure whether I want to just give them higher resistance or add some sort of anti-magic ability to them. 20171211 06:01:40< wesnoth-discord-> Hmm. Okay. 20171211 06:02:23< wesnoth-discord-> Kinda looks like the Berserker tattoos. 20171211 06:02:26< wesnoth-discord-> XD 20171211 06:02:32< wesnoth-discord-> ...crap. 20171211 06:02:33< wesnoth-discord-> XD 20171211 06:02:36< wesnoth-discord-> The Saka and the Imperial cavalry lines have strong anti-pierce armors. 20171211 06:02:47< wesnoth-discord-> But it does look cool. 20171211 06:02:52< wesnoth-discord-> @Hamel They got the idea from the Dwarves. Clearly. 20171211 06:02:56< wesnoth-discord-> ๐Ÿ˜› 20171211 06:02:58< wesnoth-discord-> XD 20171211 06:03:21< wesnoth-discord-> Actually that sort of fits... 20171211 06:03:39< wesnoth-discord-> Are they Dwarven allies? 20171211 06:04:30< wesnoth-discord-> @Hamel My WIP description: The Dwentani are men who live far to the east of Wesnoth. From the Old Continent, far to the south, their forefathers settled along coasts and built cities of tall towers and stout longhouses. In sheltered valleys, men who tired of city life herded sheep and rode thundering chariots in war. They dwell along what they call โ€œthe edge of the worldโ€, battling rude orcish and saurian barbarians. A 20171211 06:04:30< wesnoth-discord-> rustic yet learned people, they traded with dwarves and elves a-both, and learned the writing of runes, the crafting of mail, and how to hide and fight in the forests and hills. 20171211 06:05:10< wesnoth-discord-> Sounds great. 20171211 06:06:04< wesnoth-discord-> I'm pretty sure the only races Dwarves aren't particularly fond of are Elves, Orcs, and Undead. 20171211 06:06:32< wesnoth-discord-> The Leopoldine Empire is what replaces the kingdom of Wesnoth. 20171211 06:06:40< wesnoth-discord-> Seems to me they are kinda 'meh' with the other races. 20171211 06:06:54< wesnoth-discord-> Did they over throw it? 20171211 06:07:21< wesnoth-discord-> The last king's cousin, Prince Leopold, inherited it. 20171211 06:07:47< wesnoth-discord-> He abolished it because he saw that it was weak. 20171211 06:08:10< wesnoth-discord-> So, in this new 'empire', what are its closest allies? 20171211 06:08:16< wesnoth-discord-> Alternatively, he could put the kingdom as part of the empire a la Crusader Kings 2. 20171211 06:08:26< wesnoth-discord-> Or is it more like a lone wolf? 20171211 06:08:38< wesnoth-discord-> I'm still working on that. 20171211 06:09:31< wesnoth-discord-> The elven kingdoms are allied with it, as are the Northern Alliance and the Neo-Saurian Empire. 20171211 06:09:38< wesnoth-discord-> Seems to me Humans have better relations with Dwarves than Elves, especially during that first mainline era. 20171211 06:09:55< wesnoth-discord-> I could make it that the Saka Khanate becomes a vassal state of the empire. 20171211 06:10:07< wesnoth-discord-> (TRoW, AOI, LoW, SoF) 20171211 06:10:13< wesnoth-discord-> Okay. 20171211 06:10:55< wesnoth-discord-> A Wesnoth Lore/Plotline Rule: "Elves are jerks unless you're playing as em." 20171211 06:11:07< wesnoth-discord-> XD 20171211 06:11:44< wesnoth-discord-> Like those nerfherders in South Guard. Screw the elves, I side with the bandits every time. 20171211 06:11:56< wesnoth-discord-> Also, there is a Dwarvish-Human city, but not an Elvish-Human city. 20171211 06:12:08< wesnoth-discord-> Unless Elensefar is one. 20171211 06:12:44< wesnoth-discord-> @Hamel Going by "Saving Elensefar" it could be. But most of the Elves there would be members of the Main Character of that add-on's House. 20171211 06:12:54< wesnoth-discord-> Okay. 20171211 06:13:06< wesnoth-discord-> Is that add-on canon? 20171211 06:13:13< wesnoth-discord-> Nope. 20171211 06:13:21< wesnoth-discord-> I side with the Elves during the South Guard. 20171211 06:13:32< wesnoth-discord-> We see a quote by Melundur on the Main Menu. 20171211 06:14:16< wesnoth-discord-> @Hamel Oh really? Interesting. That campagin is pretty old. I've noticed that old campaigns tend to have lots of "respect" so to say. 20171211 06:14:28< wesnoth-discord-> (Do not be afraid to retreat and regroup, it is often the key to victory) 20171211 06:14:38< wesnoth-discord-> Unless I'm wrong. 20171211 06:14:46< wesnoth-discord-> Okay. 20171211 06:15:34< wesnoth-discord-> On an unrelated note, how did Burin get to the Green Isle? 20171211 06:16:41< wesnoth-discord-> @Hamel I think that's part of the joke. XD That he got very lost wandering in ancient tunnels. 20171211 06:17:00< wesnoth-discord-> XD 20171211 06:17:47< wesnoth-discord-> So, if they re-explore them, they find an isle without any Elves. 20171211 06:17:50< wesnoth-discord-> XD 20171211 06:18:25< wesnoth-discord-> I don't think anyone wants to go back to the Green Isle. Too many undead. 20171211 06:18:33< wesnoth-discord-> So that's how the spiders got there. XD 20171211 06:19:05< wesnoth-discord-> Oh yeah. 20171211 06:19:17< wesnoth-discord-> Don't wanna go there. 20171211 06:20:06< wesnoth-discord-> Although a loyalist campaign where you "reclaim"/colonize the Green Isle might be interesting. Heck, you could set it at the same time as "Heir to Throne" and play as an Evil Queen supporter. XD Then the Evil Queen gets defeated by Konrad halfway through, and you end up fighting rebels. 20171211 06:20:31< wesnoth-discord-> That might be fun. 20171211 06:23:43< wesnoth-discord-> Saving Elensefar is a campaign that I think was supposed to become mainline but it just never happened for whatever reason 20171211 06:24:12< wesnoth-discord-> @pydsigner Hrnn. Odd. It is decent. 20171211 06:24:30< wesnoth-discord-> Art is... lacking now 20171211 06:24:32< wesnoth-discord-> Interesting. 20171211 06:24:58< wesnoth-discord-> Yeah. Other than that, I think it's great. 20171211 06:25:20< wesnoth-discord-> It's like the campaign got dumped into a stasis field 8-10 years ago and just had the bare minimum porting 20171211 06:25:24< wesnoth-discord-> Oh yeah, and the 'efford' misspelling. 20171211 06:25:34< wesnoth-discord-> Yeah. 20171211 06:27:51< wesnoth-discord-> Reminds me of Bob's scenario Labyrinth of Champions. Wasn't it going to be mainlined at one point in time? 20171211 06:28:06< wesnoth-discord-> Along with a lack of portraits 20171211 06:28:39< wesnoth-discord-> Also RE: Northern Rebirth. I remember, as a little kid, playing the second scenario at like 3 in the morning, and being genuinely terrified of what I'd find in the dark caves and that all the dwarves would be dead. 20171211 06:29:08< wesnoth-discord-> Oh. XD 20171211 06:30:41< wesnoth-discord-> The second scenario (and, basically, the whole campaign) is extremely hard on beginners. 20171211 06:31:04< wesnoth-discord-> Especially if you want to do a no-loss run. 20171211 06:31:16< wesnoth-discord-> Pretty much 20171211 06:31:49< wesnoth-discord-> No-loss run? XD This is Wesnoth, not Fire Emblem. XD 20171211 06:31:53< wesnoth-discord-> XD 20171211 06:32:06< wesnoth-discord-> That said I'll no-loss loyal units. 20171211 06:32:14< wesnoth-discord-> Yes. 20171211 06:32:38< wesnoth-discord-> I've managed to do it in TRoW and LoW so far. 20171211 06:33:01< wesnoth-discord-> Both on the lowest setting. 20171211 06:33:16< wesnoth-discord-> (Besides Aethyr) 20171211 06:33:22< zookeeper> i'm not sure if i've ever done a no-loss run in any campaign. plenty of other kinds of runs, but maybe not that. 20171211 06:34:14< wesnoth-discord-> Basically, I'm challenging myself to do it for each campaign in chronological order. 20171211 06:34:46< wesnoth-discord-> Since I've beat them already. 20171211 06:35:21< wesnoth-discord-> It can be extremely difficult at times. 20171211 06:36:55< wesnoth-discord-> NR will be near impossible to do. 20171211 06:36:56< wesnoth-discord-> XD 20171211 06:37:43< wesnoth-discord-> I've done it but only reloading with bad luck 20171211 06:37:47< wesnoth-discord-> so it doesn't really count I guess 20171211 06:37:56< wesnoth-discord-> oh. 20171211 06:38:07< wesnoth-discord-> Oh, okay. 20171211 06:38:14< wesnoth-discord-> At least you tried. 20171211 06:38:18< wesnoth-discord-> XD 20171211 06:38:36< wesnoth-discord-> I did on all of the hardest modes 20171211 06:38:43< wesnoth-discord-> Oh wow. 20171211 06:38:44< wesnoth-discord-> so I'm not sure if it's possible without reloading 20171211 06:38:48< wesnoth-discord-> maybe if you're a super good player 20171211 06:39:15< wesnoth-discord-> Especially on NR. 20171211 06:39:25< wesnoth-discord-> I didn't do it for NR ๐Ÿ˜› 20171211 06:39:28< wesnoth-discord-> too grindy 4 me 20171211 06:39:31< wesnoth-discord-> With parts like the spider chamber. 20171211 06:39:51< wesnoth-discord-> but did for rise of wesnoth, sceptre of fire, httt, utbs 20171211 06:40:00< wesnoth-discord-> That will be a nightmare. 20171211 06:40:12< wesnoth-discord-> yeah it kind of makes it not as fun 20171211 06:40:25< wesnoth-discord-> at least to me 20171211 06:40:29< wesnoth-discord-> Yeah, I guess. 20171211 06:40:49< wesnoth-discord-> But it definitely makes it harder. 20171211 06:42:01< wesnoth-discord-> Oh yeah, and the final battle of THoT. 20171211 06:42:14< wesnoth-discord-> That's hard on newcomers. 20171211 06:43:52< wesnoth-discord-> Hrnn. All of my best campaign memories are cave levels actually. XD Third scenario of IFtU, Mal Keshar being "alive" after thousands of years and becoming a party member was a legitimate plot twist. At least for me. 20171211 06:44:26< wesnoth-discord-> Same here. 20171211 06:44:44< wesnoth-discord-> Not with the IFtU part though. 20171211 06:45:19< wesnoth-discord-> One of my favorite scenarios was the Lost General when I was younger. 20171211 06:47:25< wesnoth-discord-> And I really loved the final battle of THoT. 20171211 06:47:55< wesnoth-discord-> >thot 20171211 06:48:26< wesnoth-discord-> That final battle is a pain in the ass, but worth doing. 20171211 06:48:36< wesnoth-discord-> Yeah. 20171211 06:49:05< wesnoth-discord-> Really gives the feel of an epic battle to me. 20171211 06:49:15< wesnoth-discord-> But not as much as NR. 20171211 06:50:17< wesnoth-discord-> That whole campaign is a pain in the butt. 20171211 06:50:30< wesnoth-discord-> But definitely worth it. 20171211 06:51:29< wesnoth-discord-> I really should redo the map for the last HTTT scenario sometime... 20171211 06:51:38< wesnoth-discord-> it really doesn't live up to our current design standards 20171211 06:51:44< wesnoth-discord-> I can auto generate it for you ๐Ÿ˜– 20171211 06:51:56< wesnoth-discord-> Why? 20171211 06:52:09< wesnoth-discord-> basically all of HTTT's maps are ancient 20171211 06:52:18< wesnoth-discord-> most haven't been tweaked in years 20171211 06:52:27< wesnoth-discord-> oh. 20171211 06:52:32< wesnoth-discord-> we've added more and more terrains as time went on, and it just doesn't look as good anymore 20171211 06:52:40< wesnoth-discord-> oh 20171211 06:52:41< wesnoth-discord-> also, the whole scenario design in HTTT is rathe basic 20171211 06:53:10< wesnoth-discord-> If you've ever played IftU and AtS (two of the absolute best most awesome campaigns ever) you'll see how good maps can be made to look 20171211 06:53:19< wesnoth-discord-> HTTT's stuff looks pale in comparison ๐Ÿ˜› 20171211 06:53:46< wesnoth-discord-> It is the most memorable campaign to me though. 20171211 06:53:52< wesnoth-discord-> For example. 20171211 06:54:43< wesnoth-discord-> For example: Descending into Darkness. Most memorable scenario for me. 20171211 06:55:18< wesnoth-discord-> Love the dialog. 20171211 06:55:58< wesnoth-discord-> Well, it's getting quite late over here. See you guys later! 20171211 06:57:46< wesnoth-discord-> good night 20171211 06:58:10< wesnoth-discord-> I wonder what an autogenerated city would look like 20171211 06:58:22< wesnoth-discord-> maybe I'll try it... 20171211 07:46:05-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has joined #wesnoth 20171211 07:55:12-!- AI0867 [~ai@wesnoth/developer/ai0867] has left #wesnoth [] 20171211 09:10:12-!- vladimirslavik [vslavik@nat/redhat/x-zugsqjmmpzomfnob] has joined #wesnoth 20171211 09:52:34-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20171211 09:52:43-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20171211 11:59:32-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20171211 12:21:05-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has joined #wesnoth 20171211 12:43:49-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20171211 13:48:47-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20171211 13:48:58-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20171211 14:19:27-!- Appleman1234 [~quassel@124x38x163x22.ap124.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20171211 14:47:30-!- vultraz [uid24821@wesnoth/developer/vultraz] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 20171211 15:52:30< wesnoth-discord-> Map design really is hard 20171211 15:57:29< wesnoth-discord-> I concur. 20171211 15:57:54< wesnoth-discord-> Yeah. 20171211 16:03:53< wesnoth-discord-> It seems like it should be easy, and then suddenly you're looking at a 20x20 zone of grass with no ideas for embellishment 20171211 16:04:07< wesnoth-discord-> Yeah 20171211 16:45:46< DeFender1031> @pydsigner, I tend to draw the major terrain features I want, and then fill the in-between spaces with roughly the proportions of the various kinds of terrain I want in those areas, then keep hitting shuffle until it looks right, and touch up pieces here and there. 20171211 16:46:27< DeFender1031> Cave maps aren't as simple as that, though. 20171211 16:48:04< wesnoth-discord-> How would you create a good cave map? 20171211 16:48:25< DeFender1031> @Hamel, I'll let you know if and when I figure it out... :P 20171211 16:48:40< wesnoth-discord-> ok 20171211 16:48:54< DeFender1031> Every attempt I've made so far has been crap. 20171211 16:49:11< wesnoth-discord-> Same 20171211 16:52:16< wesnoth-discord-> Although they are my favorite type of map. 20171211 16:52:57< DeFender1031> To play, sure. I love the exploration, the hidden secrets, the puzzles... 20171211 16:53:07< wesnoth-discord-> Yea. 20171211 16:53:15< DeFender1031> I just wish I knew how to replicate those qualities. 20171211 16:53:27< DeFender1031> I posted about it on the forum a while back 20171211 16:53:53< DeFender1031> And then life got crazy and I haven't had time to work on my campaign in like 6 months or something 20171211 16:53:56< wesnoth-discord-> Same here. 20171211 16:53:58< wesnoth-discord-> Oh. 20171211 16:54:08< DeFender1031> "Same here" to which part? 20171211 16:54:35< wesnoth-discord-> I just wish I knew how to replicate those qualities. 20171211 16:54:40< wesnoth-discord-> That part 20171211 16:55:45< DeFender1031> Yeah, I didn't get much in the way of help on the forum, just "there's this one scenario in this one add-on that's great, look at that and see what you can learn" https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=44444 20171211 16:55:54< wesnoth-discord-> Oh. 20171211 16:56:36< wesnoth-discord-> Now that I'm thinking about the game, my favorite memories were the escape tunnel in EI. 20171211 16:56:48< wesnoth-discord-> I was so bad back then. 20171211 16:56:50< wesnoth-discord-> XD 20171211 16:59:32< wesnoth-discord-> Is the 'Grey Water' terrains for caves? 20171211 17:00:22< wesnoth-discord-> I feel like embellishments aren't too bad 20171211 17:00:35< wesnoth-discord-> but maybe I'm not one to talk since I don't draw any of my maps anymore... 20171211 17:00:40< DeFender1031> I would thing that to be a matter of creative license left up to a map creator, no? 20171211 17:00:49< wesnoth-discord-> I guess 20171211 17:00:55< DeFender1031> think* 20171211 17:01:08< wesnoth-discord-> right but I just generate most of my maps by code 20171211 17:01:19< DeFender1031> Though, I think they also use gray water for murky undead-filled swamps 20171211 17:01:32< wesnoth-discord-> hmm that might work 20171211 17:01:53< DeFender1031> @Yumi, by code? Meaning you never use anything but random maps? 20171211 17:01:57-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has joined #wesnoth 20171211 17:02:02< wesnoth-discord-> Yea that would work. 20171211 17:02:11< wesnoth-discord-> they aren't strictly random 20171211 17:02:32< wesnoth-discord-> I have a way to compartamentalize sections of maps 20171211 17:02:45< wesnoth-discord-> then generate each section with certain landmark features 20171211 17:02:57< wesnoth-discord-> so sometimes what I do is draw a landmark by hand (e.g. a mountain cluster) 20171211 17:03:07< wesnoth-discord-> and that serves as an anchor for the code to generate terrain around 20171211 17:03:20< wesnoth-discord-> sometimes I have the code just randomly place landmarks and do it by itself, it really depends on the map 20171211 17:03:41< wesnoth-discord-> I can't make it draw 3D maps yet though, so I have to do that by hand 20171211 17:03:45< wesnoth-discord-> Okay. 20171211 17:04:03< wesnoth-discord-> basically it can make a decent looking forest, I guess 20171211 17:04:22< wesnoth-discord-> So, is there a way to 'randomize' a map with certain terrain features? 20171211 17:05:04< wesnoth-discord-> I've played the game for a long time, but I haven't quite gotten into the coding yet. 20171211 17:05:17< wesnoth-discord-> I'm not sure what you mean 20171211 17:05:28< wesnoth-discord-> if you draw a map 20171211 17:05:35< wesnoth-discord-> it can add embellishments 20171211 17:05:40< wesnoth-discord-> without altering the major features 20171211 17:05:41< wesnoth-discord-> Like if I want a cave map with cave terrains. 20171211 17:06:08< wesnoth-discord-> There isn't an option for a randomized 'cave map'. 20171211 17:06:22< wesnoth-discord-> Unless I haven't found it. 20171211 17:06:31< wesnoth-discord-> so if you draw the cave structure (e.g. the cave walls) 20171211 17:06:37< wesnoth-discord-> it can add in the rest of the terrain 20171211 17:07:12< wesnoth-discord-> it can also draw a randomized cave structure, but I don't know how good it would be 20171211 17:07:27< wesnoth-discord-> I did one, but it was intended to be more of a maze-like thing with moving walls instead of a static cave map 20171211 17:07:39< wesnoth-discord-> Oh, okay. 20171211 17:07:45< wesnoth-discord-> however, if you lay out the major features 20171211 17:07:48< wesnoth-discord-> the code works a lot better 20171211 17:07:57< wesnoth-discord-> autogenerating major features of the maps is still a bit finnicky 20171211 17:08:06< wesnoth-discord-> I just haven't figured out the coding stuff yet, 20171211 17:08:10< wesnoth-discord-> Okay. 20171211 17:08:23< wesnoth-discord-> my autogenerator's kind of messy to look at 20171211 17:08:45< wesnoth-discord-> Ok. 20171211 17:09:08< DeFender1031> what's a 3D map? 20171211 17:09:40< wesnoth-discord-> so if you ever decide to take a look at it, I'll probably need to explain it 20171211 17:10:05< wesnoth-discord-> multihex terrains 20171211 17:10:20< wesnoth-discord-> to lands unknown is the biggest user of them 20171211 17:10:30< DeFender1031> that's not quite 3D, but okay 20171211 17:10:39< DeFender1031> I know the kind 20171211 17:10:39< wesnoth-discord-> To Lands Unknown is great~ 20171211 17:10:40< wesnoth-discord-> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/231976805987385345/389826328653725696/Z.png 20171211 17:11:00< wesnoth-discord-> Lol I haven't seen this one before actually 20171211 17:11:04< wesnoth-discord-> Whoa. 20171211 17:11:06< wesnoth-discord-> he really did a good job with the dunes 20171211 17:11:15< wesnoth-discord-> Yea. 20171211 17:12:37< wesnoth-discord-> Sort of reminds me of the Ivory Tower scenario in Bob_the_mighty's campaign The Altaz Mariners. 20171211 17:12:45< wesnoth-discord-> Seems 3d to me. 20171211 17:12:51< wesnoth-discord-> (1.10) 20171211 17:19:54-!- Necrosporus_ [~Necrospor@unaffiliated/necrosporus] has joined #wesnoth 20171211 17:19:54-!- Necrosporus [~Necrospor@unaffiliated/necrosporus] has quit [Killed (livingstone.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services))] 20171211 17:19:54-!- Necrosporus_ is now known as Necrosporus 20171211 18:22:16-!- vultraz [uid24821@wesnoth/developer/vultraz] has joined #wesnoth 20171211 18:26:37-!- Kranix [~magnus@xd520f683.cust.hiper.dk] has joined #wesnoth 20171211 18:27:37-!- Kranix [~magnus@xd520f683.cust.hiper.dk] has quit [Client Quit] 20171211 18:28:28-!- Kranix [~magnus@xd520f683.cust.hiper.dk] has joined #wesnoth 20171211 19:27:29-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20171211 19:27:39-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20171211 20:32:03-!- vultraz [uid24821@wesnoth/developer/vultraz] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 20171211 20:40:47-!- Narrat [~Narrat@p5DCC6A81.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth 20171211 21:20:19-!- Kranix [~magnus@xd520f683.cust.hiper.dk] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 20171211 21:25:42-!- vultraz [uid24821@wesnoth/developer/vultraz] has joined #wesnoth 20171211 21:37:14-!- synthpopisback [~synthpopi@cpe-2606-A000-7947-5000-55A5-136F-EC6F-C37D.dyn6.twc.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20171211 21:38:05-!- synthpopisback [~synthpopi@cpe-2606-A000-7947-5000-C40D-22DB-20D3-9DF1.dyn6.twc.com] has joined #wesnoth 20171211 21:50:34-!- Grickit [~derek@wesnoth/developer/grickit] has joined #wesnoth 20171211 21:51:24-!- ArneBab_ [~quassel@freenet/developer/arnebab] has joined #wesnoth 20171211 21:54:35-!- namad7 [aaaaa@pool-100-6-158-12.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #wesnoth 20171211 21:55:07-!- yaiyan_ [~yaiyan@46.101.48.31] has joined #wesnoth 20171211 21:56:31-!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: Elvish_Hunter, yaiyan, ArneBab, Gambit, namad8 20171211 21:57:29-!- synthpopisback [~synthpopi@cpe-2606-A000-7947-5000-C40D-22DB-20D3-9DF1.dyn6.twc.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20171211 21:58:13-!- synthpopisback [~synthpopi@cpe-71-68-228-59.sc.res.rr.com] has joined #wesnoth 20171211 21:59:53-!- Netsplit over, joins: Elvish_Hunter 20171211 22:27:10-!- synthpopisback [~synthpopi@cpe-71-68-228-59.sc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 20171211 22:27:18-!- synthpopisback [~synthpopi@cpe-2606-A000-7947-5000-C84E-CF9D-8722-84DD.dyn6.twc.com] has joined #wesnoth 20171211 22:32:08-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20171211 23:16:04-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20171211 23:16:18-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20171211 23:18:00-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20171211 23:33:44-!- Appleman1234 [~quassel@124x38x163x22.ap124.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #wesnoth 20171211 23:52:21-!- Vadatajs [~Vadatajs@97-127-141-224.cdrr.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20171211 23:53:19-!- Vadatajs [~Vadatajs@97-127-141-224.cdrr.qwest.net] has joined #wesnoth 20171211 23:57:37-!- EliDupree [~quassel@2604:a880:400:d0::9bb:2001] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20171211 23:57:51-!- EliDupree [~quassel@2604:a880:400:d0::9bb:2001] has joined #wesnoth 20171211 23:59:41-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20171211 23:59:48-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth --- Log closed Tue Dec 12 00:00:58 2017