--- Log opened Wed Jan 17 00:00:46 2018
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20180117 01:15:56< irker604> wesnoth/wesnoth:master Alexander van Gessel 5df406869a Clarify lifetime of defines maps AppVeyor: 1/6 builds failed
20180117 01:15:56< irker604> Details vs2015/Debug: https://ci.appveyor.com/project/wesnoth/wesnoth-7lnpw/build/Wesnoth-VS2015-master-1061
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20180117 06:27:44< vultraz> what's wrong with name_generator_factory?
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20180117 08:59:16< vn971> BTW, there's a thing I wanted to ask for a long time. Is there a well-known issue for terrain labels jumping around (in 1.13) ?  I see this issue a lot (like, really a lot), in both Map Editor and during normal games.
20180117 09:00:09< JyrkiVesterinen> https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/issues/2333
20180117 09:00:36< vn971> Sometimes it goes away with a small scrolling. Sometimes it only goes away when scrolling so that label disappears on borders. Sometimes minimizing and maximising window ehlps. Usually you can make it stable back with a few such clicks (presuming you know where labels _should_ be).
20180117 09:00:42< vn971> JyrkiVesterinen: Thanks.
20180117 09:03:41< Xara2> May I ask, how far away are we from 1.14?
20180117 09:04:11< JyrkiVesterinen> We don't know.
20180117 09:04:47< Xara2> If the date is uncertain, how many features/bugs away then?
20180117 09:04:47< JyrkiVesterinen> It appears that some developers want at least the Khalifate -> Dunefolk renaming in before the string freeze, and after that we'll have to wait for translation updates.
20180117 09:04:58< vn971> JyrkiVesterinen: is there some github issues filter page to check relevant issues BTW? Like the "In Progress" label maybe ?
20180117 09:05:21< vn971> "Blockers for 1.14" I mean (something like that)
20180117 09:05:36< JyrkiVesterinen> Then there are also WML event handling regressions caused by a recent refactor.
20180117 09:06:10< vn971> "Dunefolk" seems a nice name update in my eyes BTW.
20180117 09:06:58< JyrkiVesterinen> In theory, the blocker label is that.
20180117 09:06:58< JyrkiVesterinen> https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+label%3ABlocker
20180117 09:09:43< Xara2> Only 8/38 issues it seems.
20180117 09:10:31< JyrkiVesterinen> In practice, we haven't really been able to work on those bugs because of various problems.
20180117 09:10:48< JyrkiVesterinen> 2340, 2229 and 1747 have assignees. Other developers can't work on them.
20180117 09:11:04< JyrkiVesterinen> 2122, 1569 and 1446 we haven't been able to reproduce.
20180117 09:11:26< JyrkiVesterinen> Regarding 1027, we don't even know what the tiling options are supposed to look like.
20180117 09:11:50< JyrkiVesterinen> And for 1549, the only suggested fix has been my suggestion, and others have rejected it.
20180117 09:13:04< Xara2> If a bug is not reproducible, can one pretend it doesn't exist?
20180117 09:13:23< JyrkiVesterinen> At this rate we're likely going to do that.
20180117 09:15:31< vn971> I would propose to structure labels a bit BTW. I saw a good convention in Rust language repo: Instead of labels "BSD", "Linux", "iOS", "Windows" placed sparse-ly in labels list, they have "OS-BSD", "OS-Linux", "OS-iOS", "OS-Windows". Kind of a grouping, so that issues would fill in a low-dimension matrix rather than lots of booleans.
20180117 09:16:39< vn971> Also, there is a similar convention to try and remove labels which do not really fit to any group. Usually these labels turn out to be some weird things people forget about ofthen anyway, don't mark when appropriate etc. So only big groups are sometimes left after such linting.
20180117 09:17:25< vn971> But the second step is optional.
20180117 09:19:06< vn971> Easiest check shows dead labels indeed. See, for example, "Urgent" label. Doesn't fit to any group, nobody knows what it does in particular, so nobody uses it: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/issues?q=is%3Aissue+label%3AIn-progress+label%3AUrgent+is%3Aopen
20180117 09:23:31< vn971> "Replays" label is as dead as it gets: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+label%3A%22Fixed+on+AR+branch%22+label%3AReplays
20180117 09:23:31< vn971> (I had a replays issue recently, and it's still not labeled as "replays". Because developers don't remember that this label exists (and should not either).)
20180117 09:24:17< vn971> ah, sorry, Nvm about "replays" labels. It's alive, I accidentally enabled filtering by two labels. Sorry.
20180117 09:52:02< vn971> OK, big artillery. A feature request that I think wesnoth is really, really lacking, and solving which could really help in the long run, as I believe. https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/issues/2376
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20180117 10:07:24< Soliton> please use the forum for discussion of new features. the bug tracker is not the best place for that.
20180117 10:11:42< Soliton> (you can of course also discuss here but if it's a complex topic that needs a longer discussion IRC is not ideal either.)
20180117 10:13:17< JyrkiVesterinen> I like realtime discussion mediums such as IRC and Discord for pretty much any topic.
20180117 10:13:23< JyrkiVesterinen> It's just so much faster.
20180117 10:14:36< Soliton> if you get people together and get to a conclusion, yes. but if you have to reference past discussion it gets complicated.
20180117 10:15:20< Soliton> my main point though was to not clutter the tracker with discussions if possible.
20180117 10:15:40< Soliton> and even if that issue has feature request in the title it hardly is one.
20180117 10:16:48< Soliton> personally i'm also more than happy to discuss here since i don't really read the forum.
20180117 10:17:48< JyrkiVesterinen> Same here. I'm highly active in IRC and Discord, but hardly ever visit the forums.
20180117 10:19:21< Xara2> As a UMC creater who likes introducing new mechanisms, I have no problem with the current chat/game_start_message/objective system. 
20180117 10:19:46< Xara2> If things are too complex to be put there, players usually won't have the patience after all.
20180117 10:20:13< Soliton> you can't add help for your era or mod that can be combined with any scenario though.
20180117 10:21:28< Soliton> i think the idea is good but needs discussion on how best to implement it.
20180117 10:22:03< Soliton> and is likely not for 1.14.
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20180117 11:20:40< vn971> Soliton: I've decided to close the issue because Ravana_ told there is `[set_menu_item]synced=no`, which already does allow everything I wanted. It's not Help-specific, but that's probably not bad. It's simple enough already.
20180117 11:21:18< vn971> `synced=no` basically allows adding a menu item that's available to everyone (including observers).
20180117 11:23:05< Soliton> can an era or mod add that as well?
20180117 11:23:27< Soliton> then it does indeed seem good enough.
20180117 11:24:00< vn971> Soliton: yes, I think so. Just an [event] with a [set_menu_item] inside.
20180117 11:24:11< vn971> (and synced=no)
20180117 11:24:15< Soliton> ok, cool.
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20180117 12:29:44< zookeeper> i might or might not be offline for a day or two.
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20180117 12:54:38< AI0867> 07:27 < vultraz> what's wrong with name_generator_factory? ← it takes various strings as "const std::string"
20180117 12:55:38< AI0867> Unless you intend to modify your copy of a string, it's usually better to take the argument as a const ref
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20180117 15:46:36< TadCarlucci> AI0867, vultraz In point of fact, Codact/cppcheck is recommending 104 places where a class/struct is passed by value instead of by reference. It classifies this as "info/code style" but for many (if not all) there is a slight performance hit creating a new instance of an object. Most are std::string<>. There are a few std::shared_ptr<> as well as std::unique_ptr<> in the mix, and some other classes and structures I just glanced over. The 
20180117 15:46:36< TadCarlucci> point, I think, is not the specific message or issue but that some modules have so many issues it's degrading readbility/comprehension and that degrade maintainability.
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20180117 19:36:50< norbert> hi, is this a good channel to ask about WML? I'd like to disable the default victory condition(s) and only trigger endlevel myself.
20180117 19:38:16< norbert> is it enough to just set victory_when_enemies_defeated=no ?
20180117 19:40:49< Soliton> this is the best channel to ask about WML, i'd say. :-)
20180117 19:41:55< norbert> I've also been wondering if units can hold (and later use) items, other than their weapons
20180117 19:42:15< norbert> not just in a way that the scenario remembers what they have, but that allows the player to check an 'inventory'
20180117 19:42:46< Soliton> there are a couple of addons with an inventory system.
20180117 19:43:05< Soliton> what do you mean with "allows the player to check an 'inventory'"?
20180117 19:43:24< Soliton> outside of the scenario? from where?
20180117 19:43:30< norbert> Soliton: interesting; do you happen to have the name(s) of the addons?
20180117 19:43:59< Soliton> wesband is one, i think.
20180117 19:45:24< Soliton> doesn't look like that has been update for 1.12 though.
20180117 19:45:44< norbert> yeah, I found it with the 1.10 addons
20180117 19:45:52< norbert> indeed has a bunch of inventory macros
20180117 19:48:21< norbert> is the 1.12(.5/6) WML likely to stay more or less the same for the next couple of years?
20180117 19:49:09< norbert> also, unrelated, Wesnoth made it through Greenlight in July 2016, is the Steam version still in the works?
20180117 19:57:54< norbert> I guess I could use set_menu_item for an inventory system (just noticed that option in Wesband)
20180117 19:58:53< Soliton> going on steam is planned for the next stable version which is due.. "soon".
20180117 19:59:17< norbert> next stable is 1.14?
20180117 19:59:18< Soliton> we'll certainly try to keep WML backwards compatible.
20180117 19:59:21< Soliton> yes.
20180117 19:59:45< norbert> okay, so the 7 menu item limit for set_menu_item should also be gone for most players in, say, a year
20180117 20:04:17< norbert> will the Steam version features achievements and/or workshop support; dunno if you can say something about that
20180117 20:05:44< norbert> I don't even know if Valve allows games to access an add-on repository other than their workshop
20180117 20:07:26< norbert> I see esr hangs out in here too, that's cool ;)
20180117 20:18:40< TC01> norbert: they definitely allow it, there are currently games on steam that use non-Steam-Workshop repositories to install mods.
20180117 20:18:49< norbert> ok
20180117 20:19:35< TC01> That being said... it's not really clear to me why Workshop support would be better than Wesnoth's existing add-on installer? I've never found workshop to be all that great, to be honest. (Not that I'm a dev, my opinion doesn't really matter, I just hang out here)
20180117 21:01:45< esr> norbert: I used to be an active Wesnoth dev, and stiull keep an eye on things.
20180117 21:02:21< norbert> :)
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20180117 21:52:57< irker495> wesnoth: Jyrki Vesterinen wesnoth:master 3bc36efa5898 / src/ (config.cpp config.hpp savegame.cpp): Refuse to save if game state can't be represented as valid WML (#2375) https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/3bc36efa5898a95ce793195e24b4dee1b546c222
20180117 21:52:57< irker495> wesnoth: Jyrki Vesterinen wesnoth:master 1386e3945c4c / data/test/scenarios/test_lua_wml_tagnames.cfg wml_test_schedule: Added unit tests about which WML tag names Lua API accepts https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/1386e3945c4c8ddc4c74e87e586f93f642b9b2a6
20180117 21:52:58< irker495> wesnoth: Jyrki Vesterinen wesnoth:master 52e3772c862e / src/scripting/lua_common.cpp: Lua API: reject invalid WML tag names (#2375) https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/52e3772c862e37bc411ef18c19d289f43bea506b
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20180117 22:52:26< vn971> I wonder where can I find shadowm or Dugi..
20180117 22:52:27< vn971> There's this image_test add-on, and I'd like to propose to change a few lines. Specifically, it defines global (!) Lua variables `T` and `helper`. Which, guess what -- makes a lot of code from other addons work when it shouldn't. It won't fail for you locally because you have this other add-on, but it'll fail for those who haven't got it.
20180117 22:53:12< vn971> making the two variables `local` would make the problem go away.
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--- Log closed Thu Jan 18 00:00:47 2018