--- Log opened Thu Jan 04 00:00:28 2018 20180104 00:10:02<+wesnoth-discord-> @sinda ^ 20180104 00:11:10-!- wario [~wario_@unaffiliated/wario] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20180104 00:18:47<+wesnoth-discord-> A lot of addons are broken in 1.13. On top of that, Wesnoth has a nasty well-hidden bug where some addons can corrupt others' data. So, what we can do: * can you tell me, do you get any other errors, specifically "corrupted cache"? * try uninstalling other addons and restarting; * if there are no other addons, may I ask you to report the problem to add-on's author, Dugi, here: 20180104 00:18:47<+wesnoth-discord-> https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=32384&start=6615 20180104 00:35:28<+wesnoth-discord-> I added all the addons and took pictures of errors after downloading them and took a couple more times removing the errors to eventually stop all errors. I have pics but don’t know what to do with them. I did this about a couple weeks ago. 20180104 00:51:06<+wesnoth-discord-> You could post them to the iOS support thread: https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=46963 There's an attachment limit of 5 though, so you'll need to link to them from an external site like imgur if you have more than that. 20180104 00:56:23<+wesnoth-discord-> I haven't tried with other addons, but it does get fixed by removing, re downloading and enabling the add on again. The bug is mostly missing the story units (efraim etc) and then when moving/end turn its game over since that unit is "dead". So my guess is something fails to load all add on data when starting game or loading the file. 20180104 01:00:04<+wesnoth-discord-> Will consider posting on there tomorrow, but usually I just play when I go to bed, so no computer on and cba forums on phone/iPad so will probably forget ^^ 20180104 01:00:13-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has joined #wesnoth 20180104 01:14:47-!- hubesco_ [~hubesco@hubesco.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20180104 01:14:47-!- elias [~allefant@allegro/developer/allefant] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20180104 01:14:47-!- soloojos [~soloojos@gateway/tor-sasl/soloojos] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180104 01:15:46-!- soloojos [~soloojos@gateway/tor-sasl/soloojos] has joined #wesnoth 20180104 01:16:46-!- elias [~allefant@allegro/developer/allefant] has joined #wesnoth 20180104 01:17:44-!- hubesco [~hubesco@149.202.62.132] has joined #wesnoth 20180104 01:21:14-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180104 01:26:33-!- soloojos [~soloojos@gateway/tor-sasl/soloojos] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180104 01:27:04-!- soloojos [~soloojos@gateway/tor-sasl/soloojos] has joined #wesnoth 20180104 02:26:17-!- soloojos [~soloojos@gateway/tor-sasl/soloojos] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180104 02:26:58-!- soloojos [~soloojos@gateway/tor-sasl/soloojos] has joined #wesnoth 20180104 02:49:04-!- Narrat [~Narrat@p5DCC6A81.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance.] 20180104 03:02:44-!- ArneBab_ [~quassel@55d401c5.access.ecotel.net] has joined #wesnoth 20180104 03:02:44-!- ArneBab_ [~quassel@55d401c5.access.ecotel.net] has quit [Changing host] 20180104 03:02:44-!- ArneBab_ [~quassel@freenet/developer/arnebab] has joined #wesnoth 20180104 03:06:50-!- ArneBab [~quassel@freenet/developer/arnebab] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20180104 04:00:28-!- vultraz [uid24821@wesnoth/developer/vultraz] has joined #wesnoth 20180104 04:14:17-!- sigurdfd [sigurdfd@dynamic-acs-72-23-110-196.zoominternet.net] has quit [] 20180104 04:26:15-!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20180104 04:31:06-!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #wesnoth 20180104 04:57:42-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has quit [Quit: KABOOM! It seems that I have exploded. Please wait while I reinstall the universe.] 20180104 05:30:20-!- soloojos [~soloojos@gateway/tor-sasl/soloojos] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180104 05:31:09-!- soloojos [~soloojos@gateway/tor-sasl/soloojos] has joined #wesnoth 20180104 05:57:28-!- soloojos [~soloojos@gateway/tor-sasl/soloojos] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180104 05:58:23-!- soloojos [~soloojos@gateway/tor-sasl/soloojos] has joined #wesnoth 20180104 07:15:17-!- soloojos [~soloojos@gateway/tor-sasl/soloojos] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180104 07:16:47-!- soloojos [~soloojos@gateway/tor-sasl/soloojos] has joined #wesnoth 20180104 07:23:58<+wesnoth-discord-> When did BfW switch from a do-ocracy to a democracy? The suggested name changes of the units feel like a huge regression. https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=621564#p621564 20180104 07:37:49< tr0lll> do you prefer the arabish or non-english unit names? 20180104 07:38:13<+wesnoth-discord-> Well, nobody seems to have done much with the Khalifate since they were added, so... 20180104 07:38:32< tr0lll> in some language the unit names mean what they say in english 20180104 07:38:43< tr0lll> er... that didnt come out right 20180104 07:39:42<+wesnoth-discord-> some unit types are also translated? 20180104 07:40:11< tr0lll> i dont know arabic, but a name like Arif does have a meaning 20180104 07:40:24<+wesnoth-discord-> I just have a problem with people, that got nothing to do with the faction, suddenly decide about the khalifate 20180104 07:40:30< tr0lll> ah 20180104 07:40:43<+wesnoth-discord-> We have at least 2 khalifate UMC 20180104 07:41:33<+wesnoth-discord-> I prefer the arabic names* 20180104 07:42:18< tr0lll> okay. Arif is "knowledgeable" or "devotee" which could be "novice" for example as a beginner swordsman 20180104 07:42:38< tr0lll> and then it would translate back into arabic as the right word 20180104 07:43:23< tr0lll> sort of 20180104 07:44:25< tr0lll> the new unit names are descriptive but not very colorful 20180104 07:45:42<+wesnoth-discord-> Anyone wanna get a survival game goin? 20180104 07:46:26<+wesnoth-discord-> I think the Arabic unit type names are yet another thing about the khalifate that doesn't fit with with the rest of wesnoth. As far as the threads for changing things about the Khalifate go, if the devs disagree with the proposed changes that come out of those discussions, they are of course free to reject them. 20180104 07:56:10< tr0lll> the topic brings out the question of principles for naming units. how were the elvish units named, for example? 20180104 07:56:55<+wesnoth-discord-> descriptively. Elvish Archer, Elvish Fighter, etc 20180104 07:58:08<+wesnoth-discord-> the level 2's get a little more flare, with Elvish Captain, Elvish Enchantress, and the like, but still fairly descriptive I would say. 20180104 08:00:56<+wesnoth-discord-> compared to Arif, for example, which is a word in another language whose meaning doesn't really seem to even relate to the unit. 20180104 08:18:08<+wesnoth-discord-> The elf unit type names are also translated. ie: Elvish Fighter in German becomes Elfenkrieger, Elvish Captain becomes Elfenhauptmann. The Khalifate unit type names are not translated. 20180104 08:18:48< tr0lll> so the Dune or Sand prefix will work well 20180104 08:20:48<+wesnoth-discord-> I am not myself a translator, but that is my assumption, yes. 20180104 08:25:42-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth 20180104 09:09:44< zookeeper> @Kwandulin why wouldn't you consider those people to be the doers? 20180104 09:10:38<+wesnoth-discord-> I think it is the actual content that is driving Wesnoth, not theoretical discussions 20180104 09:15:51< zookeeper> sure, but names and lore and all that is not an insignificant part of what constitutes content. 20180104 09:21:03-!- aeth [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20180104 09:21:30< zookeeper> ah, i chose a bad time to start a conversation, as i have to be leaving for a while... 20180104 09:22:08-!- soloojos [~soloojos@gateway/tor-sasl/soloojos] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180104 09:22:08-!- vladimirslavik [vslavik@nat/redhat/x-kxrtlthzywadqyff] has joined #wesnoth 20180104 09:22:55<+wesnoth-discord-> It should be the (playable) content that constitutes the lore, not the other way round. The current discussion and the eventually upcoming lore discussion will just end in a few entries in the help menu and tooltips, but not in actual playable content 20180104 09:23:10-!- soloojos [~soloojos@gateway/tor-sasl/soloojos] has joined #wesnoth 20180104 09:23:46-!- vladimirslavik [vslavik@nat/redhat/x-kxrtlthzywadqyff] has quit [Changing host] 20180104 09:23:46-!- vladimirslavik [vslavik@wesnoth/translator/VladimirSlavik] has joined #wesnoth 20180104 09:26:51-!- aeth [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has joined #wesnoth 20180104 09:33:20<+wesnoth-discord-> Rome wasn't built in a day, as the saying goes, and you gotta start somewhere. 20180104 09:40:06<+wesnoth-discord-> The fact the comparatively it'll be most quality of life and other minor changes doesn't make them less worthwhile to do. 20180104 09:42:27<+wesnoth-discord-> also things like the faction having a level 4 unit sprite with 2 swords, but a shield bash attack 20180104 09:42:29<+wesnoth-discord-> https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=47704&start=15#p621611 20180104 09:57:46-!- HeyCitizen [~HeyCitize@sttrpq3809w-lp140-02-70-54-160-114.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #wesnoth 20180104 10:12:00-!- soloojos [~soloojos@gateway/tor-sasl/soloojos] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180104 10:13:00-!- soloojos [~soloojos@gateway/tor-sasl/soloojos] has joined #wesnoth 20180104 10:37:36<+wesnoth-discord-> @Pentarctagon Looks to me like the lvl 4 has a shield on their back. So persumably they put away one of the swords to shield bash? 20180104 10:45:04-!- vultraz [uid24821@wesnoth/developer/vultraz] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 20180104 10:46:49< hubesco> hi there 20180104 10:47:00< hubesco> jumping on the conversation, where can we play Khalifate faction ? 20180104 10:47:13< hubesco> I never saw this faction (using Wesnoth 1.12.x) 20180104 10:50:46<+wesnoth-discord-> Just coming back to this game after being burnt out years ago 20180104 10:50:51<+wesnoth-discord-> Any must play mods? 20180104 10:57:00< DeFender1031> hubesco, there are no mainline SP campaigns that use it. A couple of add-ons do, but it's mostly used in MP. 20180104 11:07:29< zookeeper> @Kwandulin, sure, in principle i agree, but the lore can be a bottleneck too if no one, besides you in this case, can figure out how to make meaningful content around the faction. 20180104 11:15:18< hubesco> thanks 20180104 11:17:37< hubesco> ok thanks @DeFender1031 20180104 11:17:45< hubesco> I finally opened my eyes on the "Era" option when creating a game 20180104 11:25:56< DeFender1031> something I'd like to see is dunefolk slowly making their way into mainline campaigns. For example, in scenarios where currently you encounter and have to fight a random band of orcs or thieves or whatever, replace them with a band of dunefolk 20180104 11:26:13-!- soloojos [~soloojos@gateway/tor-sasl/soloojos] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180104 11:26:26< DeFender1031> Just something to get them in, make their presence known, get SP players familiar with the, 20180104 11:26:31< DeFender1031> them* 20180104 11:27:13-!- soloojos [~soloojos@gateway/tor-sasl/soloojos] has joined #wesnoth 20180104 11:29:16<+wesnoth-discord-> Most, if not all of the mainline campaigns take place outside of the southern deserts. So we are going to sprinkle another faction all across the great continent? 20180104 11:35:04-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has joined #wesnoth 20180104 11:39:37< DeFender1031> Obviously it should only be done where it makes sense. 20180104 11:40:03< DeFender1031> But if there's a spot where someone is traveling through a desert, in a roughly southern-ish area, why not? 20180104 11:40:50< DeFender1031> (or even a spot where someone is traveling in a roughly southern-ish area, and the location and map for a scenario can be slightly modified to be desert instead) 20180104 11:45:48<+wesnoth-discord-> personally i dont like khalifate and i hope they dont make it into mainline ever 20180104 11:46:07<+wesnoth-discord-> such a thing would upset the cool balance for default era 20180104 11:46:27<+wesnoth-discord-> like drawing legs on a snake, as the chinese proverb says 20180104 11:49:49< DeFender1031> The "balance" argument doesn't really work, since it's possible to do work to make sure it's balanced. 20180104 11:50:36< DeFender1031> It also doesn't really work, since the concept of "balance" means something very different in SP. 20180104 12:23:18< zookeeper> DeFender1031, there are no such mainline campaigns, that's the problem. TSG is the one that goes furthest south, and you can't shoehorn them in there. 20180104 12:25:22< DeFender1031> hmm 20180104 12:25:58< zookeeper> shoehorning new stuff into old stuff never works well, unless the old stuff is very bare-bones to begin with. 20180104 12:26:20< DeFender1031> point. 20180104 12:26:58< DeFender1031> on the other hand, the khalifate doesn't HAVE to be isolated as far south as it currently is... 20180104 12:27:02< DeFender1031> er 20180104 12:27:04< DeFender1031> dunefolk 20180104 12:28:09<+wesnoth-discord-> They might work as enemies in UtBS, but that's getting enough rewrites already. 😆 20180104 12:28:52< DeFender1031> it also puts them after the fall, and not at the time period I think is being aimed for 20180104 12:30:19<+wesnoth-discord-> Clearly the solution is to make after the fall versions of all factions./snark 20180104 12:32:32< DeFender1031> I'm actually not a fan of anything after the fall (or the fact that there was a fall at all, TBH). 20180104 12:32:40< DeFender1031> I mean, they're excellent stories. 20180104 12:33:09< DeFender1031> It just strikes me as a "f*** you" to pretty much everything else that happens 20180104 12:33:12< zookeeper> shoehorning them into UtBS would undermine the point that there just aren't a lot of humans still around. well, you could use them for the bad guy humans i guess. 20180104 12:34:11< DeFender1031> like "nothing you ever did or accomplished means s***, because your society is just going to destroy itself in the end anyway" 20180104 12:37:27< DeFender1031> zookeeper, after the fall UMC is full of bad-guy humans, who strike me as possibly descended from the khalifa-- er-- dunefolk. (But perhaps only because they're in the desert.) 20180104 12:38:42< DeFender1031> then again, it'd likely only have been dunefolk who survive the fall, as the medievalesque humans would all have been wiped out... so there's that. 20180104 12:39:28< zookeeper> the units could possibly be utilized in that role, certainly, but i'd avoid any implication of them actually having some kind of proper major civilization still going on somewhere off-screen. 20180104 12:40:25< zookeeper> like, after the fall maybe their society collapses too, and basically all the remaining humans end up more or less intermixing eventually. 20180104 12:43:38< zookeeper> or maybe populations intermixing after societal collapse would make even less sense, i don't know. 20180104 12:46:56-!- soloojos [~soloojos@gateway/tor-sasl/soloojos] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180104 12:48:35-!- soloojos [~soloojos@gateway/tor-sasl/soloojos] has joined #wesnoth 20180104 13:11:06-!- Kranix [~magnus@x1-6-f4-6b-ef-d1-1f-e3.cpe.webspeed.dk] has joined #wesnoth 20180104 13:17:04-!- Kranix [~magnus@x1-6-f4-6b-ef-d1-1f-e3.cpe.webspeed.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20180104 13:17:27-!- Kranix [~magnus@x1-6-f4-6b-ef-d1-1f-e3.cpe.webspeed.dk] has joined #wesnoth 20180104 13:18:05<+wesnoth-discord-> IRCBOT - Today at 7:49 PM The "balance" argument doesn't really work, since it's possible to do work to make sure it's balanced. It also doesn't really work, since the concept of "balance" means something very different in SP. in response to this: 1) what i mean is not that khalifate could never be balanced to give even winning odds in all matchups. i mean to say that the current state of balance 20180104 13:18:05<+wesnoth-discord-> is rather pleasing and having to tweak anything to accommodate an extra faction of khalifate would upset the state of the game - even if they had even odds on random ladder maps 2) SP is basically a story-telling device, difficulty or balance do not really mean much there yeah, since you are fighting an extremely weak AI that you can even do things like spam elvish shaman against 20180104 13:20:15< DeFender1031> 1. I wouldn't say "impossible", I would say very difficult. 2. So then what's your argument agains having it appear in mainline SP campaigns? (lack of appropriate places to put them aside) 20180104 13:23:23-!- Kranix [~magnus@x1-6-f4-6b-ef-d1-1f-e3.cpe.webspeed.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20180104 13:24:07<+wesnoth-discord-> 1) yes, it would be difficult. this isnt my main point here though 2) same as the basis for 1 - I just don't appreciate khalifate in any way - aesthetic- or gameplay-related 20180104 13:24:18-!- Kranix [~magnus@x1-6-f4-6b-ef-d1-1f-e3.cpe.webspeed.dk] has joined #wesnoth 20180104 13:29:59-!- Kranix [~magnus@x1-6-f4-6b-ef-d1-1f-e3.cpe.webspeed.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20180104 13:30:39-!- Kranix [~magnus@x1-6-f4-6b-ef-d1-1f-e3.cpe.webspeed.dk] has joined #wesnoth 20180104 13:31:31<+wesnoth-discord-> I don't like drakes in either of thise two categories, bur I'm not advocating they be removed from the game. A single player opinion is not a solid basis for the rejection of a faction. 20180104 13:31:47<+wesnoth-discord-> Somebody should just create new campaigns for them and putting them in old campaigns just for the sake of putting them is silly 20180104 13:32:15<+wesnoth-discord-> so, well good luck to anybody who wants to put an effort into a Dunemen campaign 20180104 13:32:17<+wesnoth-discord-> sure 20180104 13:32:29<+wesnoth-discord-> never claimed my opinion was a good basis for dev decisions lol 20180104 13:32:36<+wesnoth-discord-> i was just giving my two cents 20180104 13:33:21-!- soloojos [~soloojos@gateway/tor-sasl/soloojos] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20180104 13:35:19-!- soloojos [~soloojos@gateway/tor-sasl/soloojos] has joined #wesnoth 20180104 13:37:13<+wesnoth-discord-> @Grandos That looks like a cape to me. 20180104 13:41:10<+wesnoth-discord-> @EoZ Return From the Abyss is good. 20180104 13:41:43<+wesnoth-discord-> @Pentarctagon squints at unit sprite again. looks like you're right. 20180104 13:42:02<+wesnoth-discord-> I would need to fiddle with 1.13 20180104 13:43:10<+wesnoth-discord-> Maybe they bash with their cape~! 20180104 13:43:43<+wesnoth-discord-> heh 20180104 13:44:04<+wesnoth-discord-> Like it has weights on it or something. XD 20180104 13:53:11-!- soloojos [~soloojos@gateway/tor-sasl/soloojos] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180104 14:06:58<+wesnoth-discord-> How do you use addon music? 20180104 14:08:13<+wesnoth-discord-> in your _main.cfg: [binary_path] path=data/add-ons// [/binary_path] 20180104 14:09:13<+wesnoth-discord-> you'd probably also want to add that as a dependency in your _server.pbl 20180104 14:34:18-!- vslavik [vslavik@nat/redhat/x-dnhqedkwvlwnvahd] has joined #wesnoth 20180104 14:37:30-!- vladimirslavik [vslavik@wesnoth/translator/VladimirSlavik] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20180104 14:49:35-!- Kranix [~magnus@x1-6-f4-6b-ef-d1-1f-e3.cpe.webspeed.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20180104 15:07:05-!- Kranix [~magnus@x1-6-f4-6b-ef-d1-1f-e3.cpe.webspeed.dk] has joined #wesnoth 20180104 15:15:43-!- Bonobo [~Bonobo@61.68.155.207] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20180104 15:16:25-!- vslavik__ [vslavik@nat/redhat/x-mutyfaokogrptycw] has joined #wesnoth 20180104 15:18:57-!- vslavik [vslavik@nat/redhat/x-dnhqedkwvlwnvahd] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20180104 15:29:38-!- HeyCitizen [~HeyCitize@sttrpq3809w-lp140-02-70-54-160-114.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught me] 20180104 15:56:39-!- ggeneral [~ggeneral@nat-25.opti.net.ua] has joined #wesnoth 20180104 16:31:27<+wesnoth-discord-> DeFender1031: To be fair, civilizations self-destructing is the normal way of things 20180104 16:32:59< DeFender1031> not really. governments rise and fall, nations merge and split, empires collapse, but the civilization itself tends to continue 20180104 16:33:45<+wesnoth-discord-> I would argue that interactions with the dunefolk could begin with the southward expansion of Wesnoth (i.e. TSG) 20180104 16:36:28<+wesnoth-discord-> A current thought on EI is that Ravanal could be Dunefolk 20180104 16:37:07<+wesnoth-discord-> DeFender1031: fair enough 20180104 16:43:20< DeFender1031> How could ravanal be dunefolk? They have no magic and are in the south, not the east. 20180104 16:46:18<+wesnoth-discord-> EI needs editing. This is one possible concept. 20180104 16:48:41<+wesnoth-discord-> I would argue that it doesn't make sense for the Dunefolk to have no form of magic, and prefer to just have them have a different form 20180104 16:50:45<+wesnoth-discord-> Every other people group on the continent uses magic 20180104 16:51:07<+wesnoth-discord-> From trolls to elves to wesnothians 20180104 16:51:16< DeFender1031> orcs? 20180104 16:51:26<+wesnoth-discord-> Have shamans 20180104 16:51:30<+wesnoth-discord-> SotBE 20180104 16:51:42< DeFender1031> orcs and trolls only have magic much later on 20180104 16:52:07< DeFender1031> drakes don't have magic though, do they? 20180104 16:52:26-!- vslavik__ [vslavik@nat/redhat/x-mutyfaokogrptycw] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20180104 16:52:43<+wesnoth-discord-> Drakes are magical. 20180104 16:52:48<+wesnoth-discord-> Also, saurians 20180104 16:52:53<+wesnoth-discord-> It's only encountered in mainline later on, but SotBE is the first campaign where we would reasonably encounter the shamans 20180104 16:53:03<+wesnoth-discord-> Drakes have innate fire 20180104 16:53:19<+wesnoth-discord-> * innate magical fire 20180104 16:53:42< DeFender1031> innate fire is not necessarily magical, and it's odd that the orcs of all people wouldn't make military use of magic if they have it. 20180104 16:53:45<+wesnoth-discord-> That's why they combust at death 20180104 16:54:22<+wesnoth-discord-> DeFender1031: orcish shamans are rare and weak 20180104 16:54:48<+wesnoth-discord-> Not the sort of thing you'd want to expend on raids 20180104 16:56:24-!- Smedles [~quassel@2001:8003:a9b9:6400:a21d:48ff:fec7:ff5c] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20180104 16:57:05< DeFender1031> no, but you'd think they'd explore it further for its military applications and have some of the stronger orcs learn it. 20180104 16:57:41-!- Smedles [~quassel@2001:8003:a9b9:6400:a21d:48ff:fec7:ff5c] has joined #wesnoth 20180104 16:57:56< DeFender1031> unless we're taking the "magical ability is genetic" approach and linking orcish magic genes and orcish weak genes 20180104 16:57:56<+wesnoth-discord-> Why don't heavy infantry learn magic? 20180104 16:58:23< DeFender1031> which, if that's the case, would also explain why dunefolk would have no magic (don't have the genes for it) 20180104 16:59:03< DeFender1031> on the other hand, I tend to dislike the genetic approach to magic, and prefer it to be more like a science which can be studied, discovered further, and applied. 20180104 16:59:23< DeFender1031> that's not an equivalent question 20180104 16:59:47<+wesnoth-discord-> Isn't it? 20180104 17:00:54<+wesnoth-discord-> There are many reasons why few orcs would learn magic, not the least of which might be the mentality required 20180104 17:00:58< DeFender1031> I'm asking why an entire conflict-inclined race as a whole doesn't study the use of magic for military purposes, you're asking why certain individuals more inclined toward strength of body than strength of mind don't study it. 20180104 17:01:18< DeFender1031> hmm 20180104 17:01:20< DeFender1031> that's fair. 20180104 17:01:35< DeFender1031> or at least, partly fair 20180104 17:01:46< DeFender1031> it'd be more fair if it weren't for the wolf riders 20180104 17:02:34< DeFender1031> if they have the mentality to train wolves for battle despite being relatively small and weak themselves, they have the mentality to train themselves for battle despite being small and weak. 20180104 17:02:43< DeFender1031> maybe. 20180104 17:03:06<+wesnoth-discord-> (The strong orcs are more inclined to strength of body than mind) 20180104 17:03:29< DeFender1031> yes, of course. 20180104 17:03:56< DeFender1031> but that disregards everything else I just said 20180104 17:06:30<+wesnoth-discord-> Magical research is expensive and comes with very long-term payoff 20180104 17:07:09<+wesnoth-discord-> That's not very tenable in a violence-normative society 20180104 17:09:16<+wesnoth-discord-> Plus don't orcs die of old age at ~60 anyway? Certainly all the high level mage units are quite old. Liches, elves, Great/White mages. 20180104 17:09:39<+wesnoth-discord-> So there can be said to be a training time sink. 20180104 17:11:49<+wesnoth-discord-> Orcish magic has about the same effectiveness in SotBE as training with a bow for a while 20180104 17:12:01<+wesnoth-discord-> With no physical strength 20180104 17:12:22< DeFender1031> @Grandos, Headcannon: Great White Mage - a shark who endeavored to be something more. 20180104 17:12:35<+wesnoth-discord-> Hahaha 20180104 17:12:41<+wesnoth-discord-> So it's not a really desirable military force 20180104 17:12:43<+wesnoth-discord-> Lol 20180104 17:12:54< DeFender1031> @pydsigner, legit. 20180104 17:13:00<+wesnoth-discord-> Head mounted laser holy beams 20180104 17:14:10<+wesnoth-discord-> Additionally, I think shamans would ration their knowledge. If there are 3 people in your village who know what you know, you're now expendable 20180104 17:14:19< DeFender1031> mmm 20180104 17:14:22< DeFender1031> true 20180104 17:14:24<+wesnoth-discord-> Reminds me of zombie sharks from Resident Evil 1. Which unlike most of the zombie animals, we're a deliberate experiment, not an accident. Which means some corporate bigwig in a suit signed off on zombie sharks. 20180104 17:14:57< DeFender1031> @Grandos, probably a shiny silver suit... 20180104 17:15:15< DeFender1031> "Zombie sharks with laser beams!" 20180104 17:15:20<+wesnoth-discord-> Who needs mages when you can spam slurbows? 20180104 17:19:13<+wesnoth-discord-> The real question is why there's no level 3 saurian mages. 20180104 17:19:59<+wesnoth-discord-> Maybe it's a lifespan thing, idk 20180104 17:20:01< DeFender1031> don't live long enough. 20180104 17:20:21 * DeFender1031 high fives @pydsigner 20180104 17:20:41<+wesnoth-discord-> That's true. 20180104 17:20:49<+wesnoth-discord-> It's also dark magic, might be draining. Those who live longer do so because they become liches 20180104 17:21:12<+wesnoth-discord-> Saurian liches sound lit, not going to lie. 20180104 17:22:47<+wesnoth-discord-> And of course liches don't have to be human. In mainline, we have elven and Dwarven ones. 20180104 17:23:09-!- Kranix [~magnus@x1-6-f4-6b-ef-d1-1f-e3.cpe.webspeed.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20180104 17:29:11<+wesnoth-discord-> We have some weird "spider lich" nonsense too 20180104 17:29:29<+wesnoth-discord-> In everyone's favorite utbs 20180104 17:30:09<+wesnoth-discord-> I think that's just a lich that got bored and spider legged itself. Immortality must be boring. 20180104 17:32:05<+wesnoth-discord-> hey could be worse 20180104 17:32:18<+wesnoth-discord-> remember that in D&D you can have pixie lich 20180104 17:33:23<+wesnoth-discord-> Yeah, I'm guessing body horror for that thing 20180104 17:55:07<+wesnoth-discord-> Random question: can enemy/allied units retain experience through a campaign? 20180104 17:57:36<+wesnoth-discord-> I think so, not sure how to implement it? 20180104 17:57:57<+wesnoth-discord-> Something to do with mass storing units, or saving units to another side's recall, and you can't change the side numbers otherwise things go wrong 20180104 17:58:22<+wesnoth-discord-> Do you mean entire sides, or specific units? 20180104 17:59:28<+wesnoth-discord-> Specific units 20180104 18:01:54<+wesnoth-discord-> Far easier. 20180104 18:01:59<+wesnoth-discord-> Store them as a variable. 20180104 18:02:16<+wesnoth-discord-> Ahhhh. :+1: 20180104 18:15:58-!- wario [~wario_@unaffiliated/wario] has joined #wesnoth 20180104 18:23:26-!- claymore [~claymore@unaffiliated/claymore] has joined #wesnoth 20180104 18:29:34<+wesnoth-discord-> i imagine khalifate faction wouldnt have magic for religious reasons or something, magic is not halaal 20180104 18:33:43-!- ggeneral [~ggeneral@nat-25.opti.net.ua] has left #wesnoth [] 20180104 18:57:18-!- vultraz [uid24821@wesnoth/developer/vultraz] has joined #wesnoth 20180104 20:08:01-!- Narrat [~Narrat@p5DCC6A81.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth 20180104 20:10:40-!- Kranix [~magnus@x1-6-f4-6b-ef-d1-1f-e3.cpe.webspeed.dk] has joined #wesnoth 20180104 20:12:55-!- Narrat [~Narrat@p5DCC6A81.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance.] 20180104 20:14:29-!- Narrat [~Narrat@p5DCC6A81.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth 20180104 20:15:29-!- Kranix [~magnus@x1-6-f4-6b-ef-d1-1f-e3.cpe.webspeed.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20180104 20:19:49-!- Kranix [~magnus@x1-6-f4-6b-ef-d1-1f-e3.cpe.webspeed.dk] has joined #wesnoth 20180104 20:20:14-!- Kranix [~magnus@x1-6-f4-6b-ef-d1-1f-e3.cpe.webspeed.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180104 20:21:05-!- Kranix [~magnus@x1-6-f4-6b-ef-d1-1f-e3.cpe.webspeed.dk] has joined #wesnoth 20180104 20:26:19-!- claymore [~claymore@unaffiliated/claymore] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20180104 20:48:42-!- DasBrain [~Johannes1@unaffiliated/johannes13] has joined #wesnoth 20180104 21:12:28<+wesnoth-discord-> They are no more Muslim than Wesnoth men are Christian. Inspired by in asthetic terms, but not. If anything, due to the presence of their non-magical healers, whose old Arabic names translate roughly to doctor or scientist, they can be interpreted as an irreligious anti-magical faction. 20180104 21:18:35<+wesnoth-discord-> The strong issue with Dunefolk is that they were added without any good backstory 20180104 21:18:59<+wesnoth-discord-> ^this is true 20180104 21:18:59<+wesnoth-discord-> What is needed is a campaign focused upon they with mainline intent 20180104 21:19:08<+wesnoth-discord-> * them 20180104 21:19:20<+wesnoth-discord-> Can I shill Return From the Abyss again? XD 20180104 21:19:29<+wesnoth-discord-> So that some definitive answers can show up 20180104 21:25:27<+wesnoth-discord-> TBH haven't played that one 20180104 21:27:36<+wesnoth-discord-> @pydsigner It has an interesting mechanic where you can only recruit the 100 units for the whole campaign. Because you're stuck in an immense Dwarven kingdom. And playing as Dunefolk in caves is interesting. Learn to love that rough terrain. XD 20180104 21:28:59<+wesnoth-discord-> The story is interesting, too. Lots, of dungeon crawling "archeological" scenarios. Like certain levels of IFtU or AtS. 20180104 21:31:49<+wesnoth-discord-> @Grandos you can maintain multiple save ids during a campaign including some for ai sides. This preserves entire sides (and gives them recall lists, although aiswon't use them unless you explicitly tell them to). 20180104 22:12:08-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20180104 22:17:36-!- wario [~wario_@unaffiliated/wario] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20180104 22:32:52-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has joined #wesnoth 20180104 23:32:32-!- Kranix [~magnus@x1-6-f4-6b-ef-d1-1f-e3.cpe.webspeed.dk] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 20180104 23:37:52<+wesnoth-discord-> Any guide or scenario description or something for all legend of the invincibles mission? 20180104 23:38:05<+wesnoth-discord-> Campaign• --- Log closed Fri Jan 05 00:00:30 2018