--- Log opened Tue Jan 09 00:00:35 2018 20180109 00:56:41-!- vultraz [uid24821@wesnoth/developer/vultraz] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 20180109 01:11:06-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180109 01:11:10-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has joined #wesnoth 20180109 01:11:20-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20180109 01:20:29-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20180109 01:20:34-!- celmin [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has joined #wesnoth 20180109 01:24:28-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20180109 01:29:44-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has joined #wesnoth 20180109 01:54:55-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180109 01:55:06-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20180109 02:22:36-!- Bluefoxicy [~Bluefoxic@c-69-137-45-254.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 20180109 02:25:55-!- Bluefoxicy [~Bluefoxic@c-69-137-45-254.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth 20180109 02:33:47-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has quit [Quit: So long and thanks for all the fish.] 20180109 02:35:29-!- Narrat [~Narrat@p5DED1497.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance.] 20180109 02:43:19-!- Bluefoxicy [~Bluefoxic@c-69-137-45-254.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has left #wesnoth ["Leaving"] 20180109 02:48:21-!- elias [~allefant@allegro/developer/allefant] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180109 02:48:43-!- allefant [~allefant@allegro/developer/allefant] has joined #wesnoth 20180109 02:57:08-!- Johannes13 [~Johannes1@unaffiliated/johannes13] has joined #wesnoth 20180109 03:00:39-!- DasBrain [~Johannes1@unaffiliated/johannes13] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20180109 03:25:11-!- vultraz [uid24821@wesnoth/developer/vultraz] has joined #wesnoth 20180109 03:44:02<+wesnoth-discord-> One that replces all sprites with the Pepsi Logo. 20180109 03:45:15<+wesnoth-discord-> @Wereweed Accompanying music mod https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z54MpfR3XE4 20180109 03:46:38<+wesnoth-discord-> The Battle for Cola 20180109 03:46:41<+wesnoth-discord-> I can see it now 20180109 03:49:48<+wesnoth-discord-> That music was suprisingly good 20180109 03:49:53<+wesnoth-discord-> @Grandos 20180109 03:50:07<+wesnoth-discord-> @Wereweed 👍 20180109 03:50:29<+wesnoth-discord-> 👍 20180109 03:55:46-!- ArneBab_ [~quassel@freenet/developer/arnebab] has joined #wesnoth 20180109 04:00:15-!- ArneBab [~quassel@freenet/developer/arnebab] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20180109 04:19:43-!- sigurdfd [sigurdfd@dynamic-acs-72-23-110-196.zoominternet.net] has quit [] 20180109 04:34:42-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180109 04:34:55-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20180109 05:07:29-!- celmin [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has quit [Quit: KABOOM! It seems that I have exploded. Please wait while I reinstall the universe.] 20180109 06:53:19-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has joined #wesnoth 20180109 07:28:45-!- ToBeCloud [uid51591@wikimedia/ToBeFree] has joined #wesnoth 20180109 08:08:54-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180109 08:09:07-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20180109 08:59:26-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth 20180109 09:12:17-!- vladimirslavik [vslavik@nat/redhat/x-fukedpwyksjehqnh] has joined #wesnoth 20180109 09:14:37-!- vladimirslavik [vslavik@nat/redhat/x-fukedpwyksjehqnh] has quit [Changing host] 20180109 09:14:37-!- vladimirslavik [vslavik@wesnoth/translator/VladimirSlavik] has joined #wesnoth 20180109 09:38:05-!- ToBeCloud [uid51591@wikimedia/ToBeFree] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 20180109 10:02:19-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180109 10:02:29-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20180109 11:43:01-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180109 12:03:48-!- vslavik [vslavik@nat/redhat/x-ehvbcopuikafbkug] has joined #wesnoth 20180109 12:05:35-!- vladimirslavik [vslavik@wesnoth/translator/VladimirSlavik] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20180109 12:29:58-!- vslavik__ [vslavik@nat/redhat/x-kgomvmkegwzcdwxq] has joined #wesnoth 20180109 12:32:45-!- vslavik [vslavik@nat/redhat/x-ehvbcopuikafbkug] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20180109 12:48:41-!- Haudegen [~quassel@212-186-77-29.static.upcbusiness.at] has joined #wesnoth 20180109 14:15:01-!- vultraz [uid24821@wesnoth/developer/vultraz] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 20180109 15:01:26-!- vladimirslavik [vslavik@nat/redhat/x-losnkgglddhucbmz] has joined #wesnoth 20180109 15:02:36-!- vslavik__ [vslavik@nat/redhat/x-kgomvmkegwzcdwxq] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 20180109 15:18:58-!- clavi [~anonymous@v22017054422549272.happysrv.de] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 20180109 15:38:18-!- clavi [~anonymous@v22017054422549272.happysrv.de] has joined #wesnoth 20180109 16:15:01-!- vladimirslavik [vslavik@nat/redhat/x-losnkgglddhucbmz] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20180109 16:44:29-!- allefant is now known as elias 20180109 16:50:21-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180109 16:50:30-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20180109 16:52:40-!- Haudegen [~quassel@212-186-77-29.static.upcbusiness.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180109 18:29:45-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has joined #wesnoth 20180109 18:32:45<+wesnoth-discord-> The recent discussion in the AtS feedback brought up the decline of Wesnoth, and I've been thinking about it since. 20180109 18:41:20<+wesnoth-discord-> maybe that'll change after the (upcoming) steam release 20180109 19:12:42-!- claymore [~claymore@unaffiliated/claymore] has joined #wesnoth 20180109 19:27:33<+wesnoth-discord-> Yeah. 20180109 19:27:53<+wesnoth-discord-> Do you know why it happened in the first place? 20180109 19:31:01<+wesnoth-discord-> It's a very static game and some of its uniqueness has vanished over time. 20180109 19:31:55<+wesnoth-discord-> The dev team is also very conservative when it comes to PR and self-promotion. 20180109 19:34:15<+wesnoth-discord-> Not to mention it's always isolated itself from the community in a subtle fashion, which also hampers growth. (Or perhaps to be more precise, it earned it negative growth over time.) 20180109 19:35:40<+wesnoth-discord-> It's never done much to empower the UMC community besides throwing code at them, either, as well as semi-rarely adding campaigns to mainline. 20180109 19:37:18<+wesnoth-discord-> And Wesnoth's replay value stems almost exclusively from the multiplayer server (which is/used to be extremely toxic and underregulated) and UMC for both modes. 20180109 19:38:09-!- HeyCitizen [citizen@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/heycitizen] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20180109 19:38:31<+wesnoth-discord-> (Expect some of the oldest devs still remaining to try to refute all of the above. ) 20180109 19:41:28<+wesnoth-discord-> Is there any info if it will still be free on steam? 20180109 19:42:25<+wesnoth-discord-> Yes. The Steam version will be free. 20180109 19:43:53<+wesnoth-discord-> Oh nifty, thank you 20180109 19:43:59<+wesnoth-discord-> Maybe I'll finally finish a campaign 20180109 19:44:39<+wesnoth-discord-> So, isolation coupled with a level of stasis. 20180109 19:45:22<+wesnoth-discord-> The main active way to make Wesnoth more popular is the Steam release, correct? 20180109 19:45:29-!- Bhoren [~Bhoren_wh@2a01:e0a:c:2150:85a0:10a9:44da:8f52] has joined #wesnoth 20180109 19:46:11<+wesnoth-discord-> Players making other people aware that the game exists regardless of the forthcoming Steam release also helps. 20180109 19:48:12<+wesnoth-discord-> It's been delayed several times over the years, so relying on that venue for self-promotion is not the greatest idea. 20180109 19:48:52<+wesnoth-discord-> Mostly on account of its continued non-existence. 20180109 19:49:51<+wesnoth-discord-> I agree. 20180109 19:52:09<+wesnoth-discord-> I don't actually have many people to shill Wesnoth to, but I can try. 20180109 19:52:44<+wesnoth-discord-> If UMC is the main thing that keeps people coming back and talking, then I suppose that what we really need is content creators? 20180109 19:53:37<+wesnoth-discord-> Wesnoth already has enormously many UMC creators 20180109 19:53:46<+wesnoth-discord-> I don't think there is a deficiency there 20180109 19:54:32<+wesnoth-discord-> This is superficial, but Wesnoth could use a bit more frequent stable releases just for PR purposes? 20180109 19:54:44< DeFender1031> @adramolokh, content creators and policies that don't make it impossible to maintain UMCs. 20180109 19:55:06<+wesnoth-discord-> do you have something in mind specifically? 20180109 19:55:46< DeFender1031> @blarumyrran, the problem with more frequent stable releases is the need for the code to be stable more frequently than it is... 20180109 19:55:57<+wesnoth-discord-> 😄 20180109 19:56:02<+wesnoth-discord-> More frequent stable releases can't happen if people never stop throwing new code at the repository. 20180109 19:56:14<+wesnoth-discord-> Fourteen add-on updates by ten people in nine days is okay, I suppose. 20180109 19:56:24<+wesnoth-discord-> The team has kept doing this even during beta now, even worse than last time with 1.12. 20180109 19:56:41< DeFender1031> @shadowm, that's what I mean. 20180109 19:57:05<+wesnoth-discord-> As an outsider, 1.13's developer process as is seems rather chaotic. 20180109 19:57:06<+wesnoth-discord-> It would also be necessary to keep the scope of each stable release small to begin with. 20180109 19:57:55<+wesnoth-discord-> Vultraz's plans for 1.16 has been insanely ambitions. He has mentioned at least hardware rendering, DPI scaling, and live reloading as goals. Even one of them would probably take something like a year to finish. 20180109 19:58:08<+wesnoth-discord-> With 1.12, the main culprit was MP campaign support. 20180109 19:58:19<+wesnoth-discord-> The end product was still broken. 20180109 19:58:37<+wesnoth-discord-> I thought MP campaigns was completely nonsense, a pet project that noone ever actually needed, 20180109 19:58:43<+wesnoth-discord-> but World Conquest has been pretty popular 20180109 19:59:13-!- claymore [~claymore@unaffiliated/claymore] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20180109 19:59:17<+wesnoth-discord-> With 1.14 the main culprits are API porting fallout. 20180109 19:59:39<+wesnoth-discord-> And questionable refactoring of legacy code. 20180109 20:00:47<+wesnoth-discord-> To my knowledge, at least, since I stopped being involved right before 1.13.3/1.13.4. 20180109 20:02:13<+wesnoth-discord-> You're partially correct. Some issues we have encountered have been the result of refactoring. 20180109 20:02:48<+wesnoth-discord-> I'd place more of the blame to the simple lack of manpower, though, combined with many developers being unable or unwilling to do crucial tasks. 20180109 20:03:28<+wesnoth-discord-> Apparently I was the only one who was capable of profiling, and therefore fixing the severe performance issues. 20180109 20:18:27-!- vultraz [uid24821@wesnoth/developer/vultraz] has joined #wesnoth 20180109 20:27:24<+wesnoth-discord-> but on the other hand 20180109 20:27:42<+wesnoth-discord-> a lot of the most popular games are released on steam right now 20180109 20:28:05<+wesnoth-discord-> so unless we're blizzard, valve, etc. it's not that easy to get "a lot" of new players 20180109 20:28:17<+wesnoth-discord-> rather, make them aware about the game 20180109 20:28:29<+wesnoth-discord-> Valve releases their games on steam 👀 20180109 20:28:30<+wesnoth-discord-> without going through steam 20180109 20:28:37<+wesnoth-discord-> yah 20180109 20:28:53<+wesnoth-discord-> but I think they also do advertising too? 20180109 20:29:04<+wesnoth-discord-> what I mean is I can't really imagine having wesnoth do a huge advertising campaign 20180109 20:29:57<+wesnoth-discord-> Neither can I, TBH. 20180109 20:32:16<+wesnoth-discord-> I guess there's also a difference between having a stable release and something that's super completely polished to the point of perfectionism 20180109 20:32:39<+wesnoth-discord-> but apparently the stable release part isn't reached yet 20180109 20:38:22< Soliton> perhaps part of the issue is little focus is spent on non engine dev tasks. forum administration/moderation is perhaps what works best in that regard. it might help to try to define tasks/roles/whatever that we think lack focus. 20180109 20:39:00< Soliton> like f.e. the already mentioned pr department. 20180109 20:39:39<+wesnoth-discord-> A PR department also helps with getting UMC into the public eye. 20180109 20:40:51<+wesnoth-discord-> The engine's somewhat arcane to me. 20180109 20:41:18<+wesnoth-discord-> Correct me if I'm wrong, but there isn't much documentation, is there? 20180109 20:41:41< Soliton> i suppose so. 20180109 20:42:12< Soliton> documentation tends to bit rot and become wrong. 20180109 20:42:56<+wesnoth-discord-> * Engine documentation. 20180109 20:43:29<+wesnoth-discord-> Deprecation seems to be a major issue both on the WML side and the engine side. 20180109 20:44:03< Soliton> yes, i meant engine documentation. the WML reference in the wiki should be quite alright. 20180109 20:44:20<+wesnoth-discord-> Oh, I was correcting myself. 20180109 20:51:52-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180109 20:51:58-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20180109 20:54:58<+wesnoth-discord-> ironically we learned about solitons in class today 😄 20180109 20:55:14<+wesnoth-discord-> well not ironically but coincidentally 20180109 21:43:49-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20180109 22:15:42-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has joined #wesnoth 20180109 22:52:42-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180109 22:52:51-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20180109 22:56:09-!- Bhoren [~Bhoren_wh@2a01:e0a:c:2150:85a0:10a9:44da:8f52] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20180109 23:15:10-!- stikonas [~stikonas@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth 20180109 23:16:47-!- stikonas [~stikonas@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Client Quit] 20180109 23:19:57-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180109 23:29:15-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20180109 23:35:51-!- Bhoren [~Bhoren_wh@2a01:e0a:c:2150:85a0:10a9:44da:8f52] has joined #wesnoth 20180109 23:44:38-!- Bhoren [~Bhoren_wh@2a01:e0a:c:2150:85a0:10a9:44da:8f52] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180109 23:46:47-!- vultraz [uid24821@wesnoth/developer/vultraz] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] --- Log closed Wed Jan 10 00:00:36 2018