--- Log opened Thu Jan 25 00:00:44 2018 20180125 00:40:27<+wesnoth-discord-> any word on a steam release? 20180125 00:47:06<+wesnoth-discord-> Eventually. 20180125 00:47:17<+wesnoth-discord-> (Roughly the same schedule for 1.14.0.) 20180125 00:47:34<+wesnoth-discord-> we're getting there. a surprise bug pushed by the release from the original plan of christmas 20180125 00:49:49-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has joined #wesnoth 20180125 00:52:26<+wesnoth-discord-> cool. it was kinda hard to find anything on it but thanks for the response 20180125 01:02:47<+wesnoth-discord-> The poll for the renaming for the Arif and Ghazi units has started: https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=47704 20180125 01:34:45-!- ToBeCloud [uid51591@wikimedia/ToBeFree] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 20180125 01:36:34<+wesnoth-discord-> Wait when did the names for the Khalifate change? 20180125 01:37:11<+wesnoth-discord-> @Ao There's like 4 seperate thread in the Ideas subforum regarding this. XD 20180125 01:37:51< DeFender1031> @Ao when people grew up and started having productive conversations instead of getting caught up in activism and biases... 20180125 01:38:05<+wesnoth-discord-> Yeah. The faction was renamed Dunefolk, if I am correct. 20180125 01:38:32<+wesnoth-discord-> Which, upon reflection, makes me think of FF14. XD 20180125 01:38:56<+wesnoth-discord-> https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wiki/Dunesfolk On the plus side, they're cute. 20180125 01:39:27<+wesnoth-discord-> What's FF14? 20180125 01:39:40<+wesnoth-discord-> Sorry, I don't play many games. 20180125 01:39:49<+wesnoth-discord-> (Besides Wesnoth, of course) 20180125 01:41:48<+wesnoth-discord-> @Not Hamel Final Fantasy 14. One of the MMO entries in the series. The Dunesfolk are a sub-culture of the game's "hobbit" expy race. Mercantilism city-state dwellers. Don't let their cute, childlike appearance fool you, they're ruthless capitalists mostly. 20180125 01:42:00<+wesnoth-discord-> Game of Thrones esque politics. 20180125 01:42:06<+wesnoth-discord-> Ooh ok. 20180125 01:42:57<+wesnoth-discord-> I'll have to take a look at them. 20180125 01:43:03<+wesnoth-discord-> They sound interesting. 20180125 01:44:43<+wesnoth-discord-> I see. Thank you folks for clarifying, I don't use the forum, really at all, for quite some time 20180125 01:45:13<+wesnoth-discord-> I don't either, but I am on Discord often. 20180125 01:45:52<+wesnoth-discord-> @Ao Basically it was decided that their names need to be in English and more descriptive. And that it would also be nice if they got a race description beyond "there isn't one" too. 20180125 01:46:06<+wesnoth-discord-> Which is how I know. Pentarctagon posts notifs for the Khalifate/Dunefolk renaming. 20180125 01:46:28<+wesnoth-discord-> Oh, interesting. I didn't know why entirely either. 20180125 01:47:25<+wesnoth-discord-> I see, I suppose names like Khiyal are rather unintuitive to people. 20180125 01:49:23<+wesnoth-discord-> When players first play the faction with those names, since they aren't in any mainline faction, and very few add-ons, people have no idea what the role of each one is. They usually have to spend a lot of time before they know what each one is and does. 20180125 01:50:27<+wesnoth-discord-> Since I'm actually here for once I meant to ask, when and why did the Chalifa become mainline? 20180125 01:50:34<+wesnoth-discord-> *campaign not faction 20180125 01:52:25<+wesnoth-discord-> @Ao The "why" is basically two reasons IIRC. 1. They're one of a handful of factions specifically designed to be balanced with mainline. (whether they achieve that currently is another matter). 2. They have mostly complete animations. 20180125 01:52:49<+wesnoth-discord-> So my memory is correct in that they were UMC? 20180125 01:52:54<+wesnoth-discord-> Yeah. 20180125 01:53:16<+wesnoth-discord-> They still have several UMC variants in add-on server. 20180125 01:53:31<+wesnoth-discord-> Oh wonderful, I've been playing this game on and off since forever ago, so my memory gets mixed up sometimes. Like campaigns I can find no record of 20180125 01:53:59<+wesnoth-discord-> Lots of UMC campaigns still haven't been ported to 1.12. Let alone 1.13. 20180125 01:54:25<+wesnoth-discord-> Like, Elven Dynasty RPG is ported, but not the prequel. Terrible. 20180125 01:54:38<+wesnoth-discord-> Still, I can't even remember the name of the campaign and I liked it 20180125 01:54:54<+wesnoth-discord-> What was the campaign like? 20180125 01:55:02<+wesnoth-discord-> Um 20180125 01:55:06<+wesnoth-discord-> so you were this wizard dude, right 20180125 01:55:15<+wesnoth-discord-> and like undead and things didn't like you 20180125 01:55:23<+wesnoth-discord-> so you summoned three different types of elementals 20180125 01:55:34<+wesnoth-discord-> and they got stronger each scenario you summoned them 20180125 01:55:47<+wesnoth-discord-> and they were like cold and fire and arcane 20180125 01:56:09<+wesnoth-discord-> and eventually you ended up with them as L4s or L3s and went on a rampage, or something 20180125 01:56:28<+wesnoth-discord-> I don't have a great memory of its later stages 20180125 01:57:03<+wesnoth-discord-> Do you remember what version of Wesnoth? 20180125 01:57:13<+wesnoth-discord-> Not for the life of me 20180125 01:57:17<+wesnoth-discord-> sorry 20180125 02:07:18-!- Narrat [~Narrat@p5DCC6403.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance.] 20180125 02:23:40-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20180125 02:32:44-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has joined #wesnoth 20180125 03:17:10-!- ArneBab [~quassel@freenet/developer/arnebab] has joined #wesnoth 20180125 03:21:58-!- ArneBab_ [~quassel@freenet/developer/arnebab] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 20180125 03:37:27-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180125 03:37:33-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20180125 06:04:44-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has quit [Quit: And lo! The computer falls into a deep sleep, to awake again some other day!] 20180125 07:40:04-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has joined #wesnoth 20180125 07:49:03-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth 20180125 10:32:12-!- vladimirslavik [vslavik@nat/redhat/x-owjbhrpvuhxvujis] has joined #wesnoth 20180125 10:54:57-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180125 10:55:04-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20180125 11:53:11-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20180125 12:34:18-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180125 12:34:28-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20180125 12:57:38-!- Guest97355 [~quassel@212-186-77-29.static.upcbusiness.at] has joined #wesnoth 20180125 13:14:42-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has joined #wesnoth 20180125 13:32:43-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has quit [Quit: And lo! The computer falls into a deep sleep, to awake again some other day!] 20180125 13:45:09-!- Guest97355 is now known as Haudegen 20180125 13:54:25< Gambit> vultraz: I do not know. 20180125 13:54:35< Gambit> Looks like twitter put a link to your tweet... in the tweet body? 20180125 13:54:41< Gambit> but only when reporting it to the API 20180125 14:29:44-!- vslavik [vslavik@nat/redhat/x-dtohwullrrrxegji] has joined #wesnoth 20180125 14:32:15-!- vladimirslavik [vslavik@nat/redhat/x-owjbhrpvuhxvujis] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20180125 15:52:54-!- vslavik__ [vslavik@nat/redhat/x-ufnpsmbotchedcij] has joined #wesnoth 20180125 15:55:10-!- vslavik [vslavik@nat/redhat/x-dtohwullrrrxegji] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20180125 16:01:39<+wesnoth-discord-> I've seen that with IRC bots more than once before 20180125 16:32:36-!- Haudegen [~quassel@212-186-77-29.static.upcbusiness.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180125 16:46:04< Gambit> Apparently if a tweet goes over 140 characters, their API can't handle that even though they allow 280 now 20180125 16:46:11< Gambit> So they're putting the URL of the tweet in the body of the tweet 20180125 16:46:19< Gambit> so that you have a link you can click to read the rest of it 20180125 16:46:23-!- Haudegen [~quassel@212-186-77-29.static.upcbusiness.at] has joined #wesnoth 20180125 16:46:36< Gambit> The twitter API is the worst thing ever created by software developers 20180125 16:46:45< Gambit> It's worse than the concept of mailing lists 20180125 16:53:31< Gambit> If I was A Good Wesnoth Boy™ who was Still Involved In Things Around Hereⓒ I could use some other topical joke example of something the twitter API is worse than 20180125 16:53:51< Gambit> "The twitter API is worse than that time we tried to integrate python." 20180125 16:54:39< Gambit> But as it stands all I can remember is my deep-seated hatred of the mailing list. 20180125 16:55:50< Gambit> If I was just some random playing the game poorly I would say that the twitter API is worse than our "random number generator" but I know that that's a dumb complaint. 20180125 16:56:03< Gambit> OH 20180125 16:56:10< Gambit> The twitter API is worse than the Ageless Era 20180125 16:56:15< Gambit> Though perhaps that is a little mean. 20180125 16:57:13< Gambit> Actually, technologically, the Ageless Era is probably quite a feat... 20180125 17:09:16< DeFender1031> I've seen some bad APIs in my time. 20180125 17:28:35-!- claymore [~claymore@unaffiliated/claymore] has joined #wesnoth 20180125 17:32:04-!- Smedles [~quassel@2001:8003:a9b9:6400:a21d:48ff:fec7:ff5c] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20180125 17:32:29-!- Smedles [~quassel@CPE-58-174-12-3.bzuj1.cha.bigpond.net.au] has joined #wesnoth 20180125 17:54:54-!- octalot [~steve@178.115.131.232.wireless.dyn.drei.com] has joined #wesnoth 20180125 18:05:54-!- vultraz [uid24821@wesnoth/developer/vultraz] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 20180125 18:09:33<+wesnoth-discord-> War of the Gods is a better feat 20180125 18:09:42<+wesnoth-discord-> I'm surprised that it functions, looking at its code. 20180125 18:09:52<+wesnoth-discord-> I was wondering: Is it possible to give one side with two leaders two different "recruit="s, one for each leader in that side? Would be good for the hybrid campaigns. 20180125 18:11:00<+wesnoth-discord-> allow_extra_recruit, I believe. 20180125 18:11:17<+wesnoth-discord-> legend of wesmere has it 20180125 18:12:45<+wesnoth-discord-> An add-on I played thru a couple times, Return From The Abyss has it a few times, I believe. 20180125 18:14:49<+wesnoth-discord-> extra_recruit I suppose, looking at LoW's files. Thank you. :) 20180125 18:17:01< Ravana_> I expect it is close to not functioning - ChaosRiders addons have previously been over 70mb wml limit 20180125 18:21:18<+wesnoth-discord-> And yet it's the second most popular era out there 20180125 18:51:27<+wesnoth-discord-> btw, addon size limit was raised in 1.13 to 100mb 20180125 18:53:52<+wesnoth-discord-> https://www.humblebundle.com/store/amnesia-collection free 🙂 20180125 18:59:50< Ravana_> addon size limit and wml document size limit can be different 20180125 19:06:47<+wesnoth-discord-> 70mb for text o.O 20180125 19:07:47< Ravana_> it isn't that high, ageless has around 15mb 20180125 19:08:29<+wesnoth-discord-> How is that even possible? Megabytes worth of text is imaginable if there is Base64 encoded images or something in there, but otherwise... not really. 20180125 19:10:22<+wesnoth-discord-> Ageless is only... 11 eras? 20180125 19:10:46<+wesnoth-discord-> War of the Gods is every era that Chaos Rider can find, mostly verbatim. 20180125 19:11:10< Ravana_> most of that is unit types, with most lines for animations 20180125 19:22:13-!- vslavik__ [vslavik@nat/redhat/x-ufnpsmbotchedcij] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20180125 19:32:13-!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: Vadatajs 20180125 19:32:41-!- Netsplit over, joins: Vadatajs 20180125 19:41:45<+wesnoth-discord-> sevu, it wasn't raised to 100 MB. It was lowered from "infinite" to 100 MB. 20180125 19:42:04<+wesnoth-discord-> The previous networking architecture didn't have a definite limit. 20180125 19:43:15<+wesnoth-discord-> The limit was 70 MB for a short while but that was completely arbitrary and had to be corrected. 20180125 19:44:42<+wesnoth-discord-> Also I believe Ravana has said before that he distributes the preprocessed WML to speed up the loading process (which assumes your HDD isn't a bottleneck). 20180125 19:45:15<+wesnoth-discord-> The WML preprocessor output tends to be ginormous because of how much is built on macros. 20180125 19:45:43<+wesnoth-discord-> Yeah... megabyte range is just insane for text. 20180125 19:46:47<+wesnoth-discord-> pretty sure IftU and AtS have more than a megabyte of text for scenarios alone though 20180125 19:47:28<+wesnoth-discord-> probably a couple megabytes 20180125 19:51:10<+wesnoth-discord-> The largest scenario in IftU and AtS are respectively Until Death (67.8 KiB) and Dark Depths (~112.2 KiB). 20180125 19:52:01<+wesnoth-discord-> supposing that the average scenario length is 50 kB 20180125 19:52:13<+wesnoth-discord-> multiply by 20 scenarios and you've already got 1 MB 20180125 19:52:25<+wesnoth-discord-> IftU and AtS are massive outliers. 20180125 19:52:28<+wesnoth-discord-> that's not counting utilities and units 20180125 19:52:41<+wesnoth-discord-> Especially those scenarios in particular. 20180125 19:53:20<+wesnoth-discord-> Right, you can reach quite large amounts of text by counting multiple scenarios together. 20180125 19:53:28<+wesnoth-discord-> But the 100 MB limit is per-document. 20180125 19:53:30< Ravana_> main reason that forced me to release preprocessed version is that units.wesnoth.org lowered timeout from 60sec to 20sec 20180125 19:53:33<+wesnoth-discord-> ohhhhhhhh 20180125 19:53:37<+wesnoth-discord-> I see 20180125 19:53:49<+wesnoth-discord-> that would be quite something... 20180125 19:54:18<+wesnoth-discord-> Oh wait, you mean all of the scenarios added together 20180125 19:54:20<+wesnoth-discord-> Yeah. 20180125 19:54:37<+wesnoth-discord-> imagine a 100 MB unit file 20180125 19:54:38<+wesnoth-discord-> or scenario 20180125 19:54:46<+wesnoth-discord-> 😱 20180125 19:55:49< Ravana_> no idea how campaigns work, but I expected all scenarios be part of its campaign document 20180125 19:58:28<+wesnoth-discord-> WoTG's biggest unit file is 25 MiB. 20180125 20:00:04<+wesnoth-discord-> It's abilities file is 754 KiB, animations file is 220 KiB, and it drops off rather noticeably after that 20180125 20:00:09-!- Narrat [~Narrat@p5DCC6403.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth 20180125 20:00:46<+wesnoth-discord-> I imagine that the only thing that would manage to break the 100 MiB WML limit is a large save file 20180125 20:01:06<+wesnoth-discord-> oh? 20180125 20:01:12<+wesnoth-discord-> even I"ve got a 30 kB unit file 20180125 20:01:38<+wesnoth-discord-> granted WoTG is an era and not really for RPG type things I guess 20180125 20:01:41<+wesnoth-discord-> Most of that text is animations, apparently 20180125 20:01:48<+wesnoth-discord-> makes sense 20180125 20:02:48<+wesnoth-discord-> I guess WoTG basically just works by squashing a lot of things together 20180125 20:03:18< zookeeper> there's no "War of the Gods" on 1.10/1.12/1.13 add-on servers, what's up with that? 20180125 20:03:35<+wesnoth-discord-> I don't think ChaosRider has to do many large scale alterations, otherwise the entire system might fall apart 20180125 20:03:53< Ravana_> he just didn't include spaces in addon title 20180125 20:04:05< zookeeper> oh right 20180125 20:04:40<+wesnoth-discord-> For an example of his code's coherence, a better example would be BonusSpam, which is a maze of switch-cases. 20180125 20:07:19<+wesnoth-discord-> I once wanted to fix sth. in BonusSpam, and it's a single 8k lines file or sth like that... 20180125 20:07:27< zookeeper> yeah i'm pretty sure this biggest unit file in WotG is in fact not 25MiB :p 20180125 20:08:04<+wesnoth-discord-> He edited the message to say 25 kB. 20180125 20:08:48<+wesnoth-discord-> irc-discord editing failures 20180125 20:09:13< zookeeper> oh. indeed. 20180125 20:09:21<+wesnoth-discord-> Indeed. One should avoid message editing in this channel. 20180125 20:14:15-!- claymore [~claymore@unaffiliated/claymore] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20180125 20:20:08-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180125 20:20:20-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20180125 20:22:22<+wesnoth-discord-> I wonder what the average scenario length is for mainline campaigns 20180125 20:22:27<+wesnoth-discord-> in text 20180125 20:58:06-!- Narrat [~Narrat@p5DCC6403.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance.] 20180125 20:58:38-!- Narrat [~Narrat@p5DCC6403.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth 20180125 21:31:18<+wesnoth-discord-> Short. 20180125 21:31:54<+wesnoth-discord-> Pretty sure the longest is that insane UtBS scenario where [spoiler] dies in different ways 20180125 21:32:43<+wesnoth-discord-> And I doubt it's over 50kb 20180125 21:33:45<+wesnoth-discord-> Scenario 8? 20180125 21:33:53<+wesnoth-discord-> 139.3 KiB. 20180125 21:34:21<+wesnoth-discord-> Or 142.6 KB. 20180125 21:39:15<+wesnoth-discord-> oh yeah 20180125 21:39:20<+wesnoth-discord-> but that one's like 2 scenarios in 1 20180125 21:39:35<+wesnoth-discord-> so it makes sense 20180125 21:47:42<+wesnoth-discord-> WML CAMPAIGN_AFTER_THE_STORM_EPISODE_III -> NORMAL 126660 lines, 3344451 characters (3269 KiB) 20180125 21:47:59<+wesnoth-discord-> AtS E3 is approximately 3.2 MiB in code. 20180125 21:48:14<+wesnoth-discord-> Preprocessed code, that is. 20180125 21:48:50<+wesnoth-discord-> IftU is 3.26 MiB. 20180125 21:51:19<+wesnoth-discord-> well, 20180125 21:51:28<+wesnoth-discord-> the cutscene-ish scenario "Interim" is 99 kB by itself 20180125 21:52:14<+wesnoth-discord-> You can see the non-preprocessed byte sizes here: https://pastebin.com/BRQqPy87 20180125 21:53:39<+wesnoth-discord-> And line-counts (AtS E3S7A.1 used to be in the lead until the last update that extended E3S9's length by quite a lot): https://pastebin.com/JYw8UYAS 20180125 21:55:33<+wesnoth-discord-> perfectionist 😱 20180125 22:48:09-!- vultraz [uid24821@wesnoth/developer/vultraz] has joined #wesnoth 20180125 22:58:10-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20180125 23:46:10-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180125 23:46:19-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth --- Log closed Fri Jan 26 00:00:09 2018