--- Log opened Sun Feb 25 00:00:38 2018
20180225 00:02:03< vultraz> celticminstrel: what would you think about dropping players_changelog
20180225 00:02:58< shadowm> I support the idea solely on the basis of the dev team being chronically unable to distinguish between player-visible and non-player-visible features as well as constantly forgetting about writing them down (both categories).
20180225 00:03:14< celticminstrel> I think it's nice to have.
20180225 00:03:18< celticminstrel> But not essential.
20180225 00:03:21< shadowm> (The fact that I support it says more about my opinion of the dev team than the changelog itself.)
20180225 00:03:52< celticminstrel> I imagine a lot of players would be disappointed to see it go.
20180225 00:04:41< shadowm> FWIW I was also sad when I saw that the 1.13.11 release announcement didn't really tell us about anything beyond the string freeze.
20180225 00:04:48< vultraz> but in its place they would get the regular changelog, now made all nicely formatted by becoming a .md file
20180225 00:06:42< celticminstrel> But making it nicely formatted as .md wouldn't change the fact that most of those changes are not relevant to them.
20180225 00:07:16< vultraz> meh
20180225 00:07:19< vultraz> they can parse it out
20180225 00:07:24< celticminstrel> Mind you, there are other ways to solve that than having a separate changelog.
20180225 00:07:40< celticminstrel> For example, a single changelog could be arranged so that player-visible changes go at the top.
20180225 00:07:46< vultraz> it's pretty obvious if all you care about is campaigns, you look at the campaigns sections
20180225 00:07:50< vultraz> section
20180225 00:08:15< celticminstrel> We should probably also have some criteria as to which sorts of changes count as player-visible.
20180225 00:08:50< shadowm> Where is the markdown changelog?
20180225 00:08:58< vultraz> shadowm: not created yet
20180225 00:09:05< celticminstrel> On Vultraz's fork last I checked.
20180225 00:09:05 * shadowm rolls eyes.
20180225 00:09:16< vultraz> I intend to either rename the current one, or fork it
20180225 00:09:19< vultraz> celticminstrel: not anymore
20180225 00:09:42< vultraz> shadowm: I was told to wait until after 1.13.11 so we can see if the changelog file is used in some way by linux packagers
20180225 00:09:49< vultraz> you wouldn't know anything about this, would you
20180225 00:09:59< shadowm> You asked me this question before, didn't you?
20180225 00:10:07< vultraz> i did?
20180225 00:10:14< celticminstrel> I imagine it'd be better to ask the actual packagers. Unfortunately I don't recall who those are.
20180225 00:10:20< shadowm> I doubt it's used beyond "drop this in the package as-is (optionally compressed)" like Debian those.
20180225 00:10:34< vultraz> ok
20180225 00:10:39< shadowm> loonycyborg has the email addresses and could email them if vultraz wanted.
20180225 00:10:46< vultraz> ehhhhh 
20180225 00:10:48< vultraz> .........
20180225 00:10:51 * shadowm swears she already said that too.
20180225 00:10:53< vultraz> ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh..................................................
20180225 00:11:06< celticminstrel> But note that Vultraz's proposal also means the changelog is split into multiple files.
20180225 00:11:19< celticminstrel> Because it really is geting ridiculously long.
20180225 00:12:11< shadowm> I have a feeling I've seen Debian packages shipping multiple upstream changelogs before but I'm not 100% sure.
20180225 00:12:29< shadowm> (Some upstreams split them by branches or after a certain amount of time.)
20180225 00:12:41< vultraz> I figured I'd move everything into a changelogs/ folder
20180225 00:12:45< vultraz> one per release series
20180225 00:12:49< vultraz> one file*
20180225 00:13:03< shadowm> Why a dedicated dir when you already have doc/?
20180225 00:13:16< vultraz> hm
20180225 00:13:19< vultraz> I never look inside doc/
20180225 00:13:26< shadowm> I know.
20180225 00:13:55< shadowm> I wonder who even is in charge of updating the manual this time around?
20180225 00:13:57< zookeeper> if you drop players_changelog, then you need some kind of substitute for it. joe average can't make sense of a sea of entries like "* Input Method Editor support in most textboxes"
20180225 00:14:06< shadowm> (Which... was supposed to happen before the string freeze, actually.)
20180225 00:14:37< vultraz> then they just ignore those entries
20180225 00:14:47< zookeeper> that's not how human cognition works.
20180225 00:15:47< shadowm> The bottomline is vultraz doesn't want to encourage people to find interesting stuff in the changelog, ergo be interested in development releases at all.
20180225 00:16:14< celticminstrel> Good point about the manual... :|
20180225 00:16:17< zookeeper> now, i'd certainly agree that it'd make sense for to actually only need to edit one changelog, if there'd be a way to split/filter a separate players_changelog substitute out of it at release time. which of course could be made relatively simple.
20180225 00:16:22< celticminstrel> To what extent does it need updating?
20180225 00:16:37< shadowm> Screenshots and any references to UI or units or whatever that's changed since 1.12.x.
20180225 00:16:40< zookeeper> errr, "for to" -> "for developers to"
20180225 00:17:00< celticminstrel> Ah. If it's pretty much only images, that could probably done last-minute before the release.
20180225 00:17:01< shadowm> I don't know for sure if this is a real concern since I've barely touched the game since 1.13.2.
20180225 00:17:04< celticminstrel> It's not ideal.
20180225 00:17:12< celticminstrel> But... it could probably work out.
20180225 00:17:22< shadowm> Yeah, it's not. Translators need to be able to provide translated images as well.
20180225 00:17:29< celticminstrel> Ah, true.
20180225 00:17:32< shadowm> i.e. screenshots using their own localization.
20180225 00:17:33< celticminstrel> Images contain text.
20180225 00:17:43< celticminstrel> Somehow I forgot this. >_>
20180225 00:17:46< celticminstrel> Okay so...
20180225 00:18:30< vultraz> are we going to have to break the string freeze :P
20180225 00:18:57< zookeeper> can you pofix image changes now and then break the translations later? :>
20180225 00:18:59 * zookeeper ducks
20180225 00:18:59< shadowm> That kind of thing wouldn't happen if people didn't forget things all the time. :p
20180225 00:19:13< celticminstrel> Have the translators been informed of the string freeze yet?
20180225 00:19:24< vultraz> ya know I still don't really understand how pofix works to not break shit
20180225 00:19:43< shadowm> (Or valued past contributors a little more and made sure to ask them about how they've proceeded in the past before a major milestone.)
20180225 00:23:03< celticminstrel> ^
20180225 00:23:52< celticminstrel> Also, I repeat... did anyone actually inform the translators of the string freeze? Presumably some have been watching and already noticed, but...
20180225 00:24:10< celticminstrel> Someone (either zookeeper or loonycyborg) has their emails and IIRC might have offered to do this.
20180225 00:24:27< celticminstrel> (Oh or it might've been Soliton? I can't really remember.)
20180225 00:24:34< celticminstrel> https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/issues/2551
20180225 00:24:37< vultraz> I think loonycyborg might have?
20180225 00:24:59< zookeeper> soliton has them now too
20180225 00:25:03< celticminstrel> If they have, and we plan to update the manual, an addendum should be sent about that.
20180225 00:25:11< loonycyborg> I don't know anything about translators
20180225 00:25:19< Soliton> AI0867 has kindly reinstated the i18n list: http://mailman.wesnoth.org/listinfo/i18n
20180225 00:25:55< shadowm> I feel like vultraz should subscribe to that list on account of him being in charge of release cycle decisions.
20180225 00:26:16< shadowm> If he's not already subscribed, that is.
20180225 00:27:07< Soliton> whoever has the list of packagers could hand them to AI0867 and i'm sure he'd create a packaging list as well...
20180225 00:27:55< vultraz> only relevant to linux packagers, since i deal with the windows and mac packagers on discord
20180225 00:28:05< shadowm> As a matter of fact, all us do have access to the list.
20180225 00:28:27< shadowm> /scratch/packagers-list
20180225 00:28:53< shadowm> (No idea if loonycyborg has kept in sync with his own list he uses when sending out emails.)
20180225 00:35:19< loonycyborg> I think last one who was added there was you
20180225 00:35:40< loonycyborg> and I didn't have to add more people to mail to after
20180225 00:35:54< shadowm> So basically it's not changed at all since November 2016? (the file's mtime, not the date that it says at the beginning)
20180225 00:36:13< shadowm> That seems a bit odd.
20180225 00:37:05< loonycyborg> well nobody mailed me back asking me to remove them from mass mailing :P
20180225 00:37:41< shadowm> Nobody did during my tenure either, but I did have a couple of people ask me to be added.
20180225 00:39:13< irker312> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master 5992672dafde / src/game_initialization/create_engine.cpp: disable Depcheck in SP https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/5992672dafde1af2ef34d5f32c8e2da2f5cf5f99
20180225 00:39:38< gfgtdf> hm misclicked i actually meant to creat a pr for that one. 
20180225 00:43:39< vultraz> gfgtdf: I think another acceptable fix would beto have era set to default by default?
20180225 00:44:20< vultraz> we don't really need game reselection for the sp menu
20180225 00:44:23< gfgtdf> isn't te default era already the default era?
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20180225 00:44:28< vultraz> no it's the null era
20180225 00:44:35< shadowm> I just realized that this means cycholka/Mist has been on the packagers list for 10 years loonycyborg.
20180225 00:45:02< shadowm> He was a (the?) Windows packager 10 years ago and also took over forum platform administration duties.
20180225 00:46:48< gfgtdf> vultraz: hmm ok i wonder wheere that is set. I realyl thought the default era was the default era already in sp, i mean there are some comments implyign that for exampel this one: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/blob/master/data/_main.cfg#L35
20180225 00:47:04< vultraz> hmmm
20180225 00:47:05< vultraz> actually
20180225 00:47:09< vultraz> there used to be a null era
20180225 00:47:12< vultraz> but we removed it..
20180225 00:47:57< vultraz> yeah..
20180225 00:48:01< vultraz> 	if(config& multiplayer = cfg.child("multiplayer")) {
20180225 00:48:01< vultraz> 		if(multiplayer["mp_era"] == "era_blank") {
20180225 00:48:01< vultraz> 			multiplayer["mp_era"] = "era_default";
20180225 00:48:01< vultraz> 		}
20180225 00:48:01< vultraz> 	}
20180225 00:48:06< vultraz> must be something in the depcheck manager?
20180225 00:48:08< vultraz> that's off
20180225 00:48:19< gfgtdf> thats the compability code that you just copied ?
20180225 00:48:36< vultraz> yes
20180225 00:48:43< vultraz> from convert_old_saves_1_13_1
20180225 00:49:58< gfgtdf> but even if we woudl do that, that will probably not make depcheck work probably, i mean if i understood coirrectly the ui code simply lacks the functionality to 'correct' the ui elements state, as noteidn in that commits message
20180225 00:50:48< gfgtdf> in sp i meant*
20180225 00:55:00< gfgtdf> vultraz: i think the reason why it is null migth be that it is probably just never set in the sp dialog? maybe soemthign like set_current_era_index mus be called
20180225 00:55:23< gfgtdf> must*
20180225 00:59:50< vultraz> Ehhh
20180225 00:59:52< vultraz> Dunno
20180225 01:00:03< vultraz> We removed era selection for sp early on..
20180225 01:00:19-!- boucman [~rosen@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20180225 01:00:56< octalot> the Debian packagers are in this channel: vincent_c and Rhonda
20180225 01:02:15< octalot> (v & R, you're being named because of the discussion 30 minutes ago)
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20180225 01:04:58< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#16614 (master - 5992672 : gfgtdf): The build was fixed.
20180225 01:04:58< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/345794274
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20180225 01:25:38< vultraz> celticminstrel: um
20180225 01:25:43< vultraz> celticminstrel: we just released 1.13.11...
20180225 01:44:33< vultraz> wedge009: well, I have a fix for the edge cases you reported... but it's not that efficient
20180225 01:46:08< vultraz> https://pastebin.com/phZEsX1f
20180225 01:46:29< vultraz> though I guess it's not a huge problem
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20180225 01:53:15< irker312> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master 1ac8fd06aa04 / src/editor/map/editor_map.cpp: Better fix for #1390 to address the corner cases @Wedge009 mentioned https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/1ac8fd06aa04ceccfb7bad718177ee17f21bdd8e
20180225 01:53:42< vultraz> celticminstrel, wedge009 ^ not efficient, but it works.
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20180225 02:20:29< rwr3000> Question: Is there a way to set a base accuracy for a unit (no matter what terrain the enemy is on) but can add to it under certain conditions (via weapon special)?
20180225 02:21:11< rwr3000> I tried doing something similar to Magic attack but it doesn't seem to add my additional accuracy
20180225 02:21:42< rwr3000> (one weapon special that says accuracy is X and another that says if Y then add Z to accuracy
20180225 02:31:10-!- rwr3000 [43a786ee@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.167.134.238] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
20180225 02:31:51< irker312> wesnoth: Iris Morelle website:master 0d64ef728a54 / README.md: Point readers to Wesmere instead of Glamdrol https://github.com/wesnoth/website/commit/0d64ef728a5460b6885f54e52df1f70c7a2ffb1a
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20180225 03:02:50< irker312> wesnoth: Iris Morelle website:master 346777b77aff / start/1.14/ (77 files in 5 dirs): start/1.14: Initial template for the press release announcement https://github.com/wesnoth/website/commit/346777b77affe7a1583e9a1f27d63da0481bf7a2
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20180225 03:28:38< irker312> wesnoth/wesnoth:gfgtdf-patch-1 gfgtdf 890d2e4a59 fix reset_gamestate_exception not inheri AppVeyor: All builds passed
20180225 03:54:09< celticminstrel> vultraz: Sorry, I was getting confused about the release for some reason. I had it right at first, then second-guessed myself.
20180225 03:55:00< celticminstrel> As you can tell from the milestone event messages.
20180225 03:58:43< celticminstrel> FTR, the Unreal engine also offers both types of fullscreen.
20180225 03:58:53< celticminstrel> Not sure about Unity but it wouldn't surprise me.
20180225 04:48:04< celticminstrel> Hmm, according to the wiki, [multiplayer_side]name= can use the old DescriptionWML markup...
20180225 04:48:16< celticminstrel> Does that still work? If not we should add an alternative...
20180225 04:48:57< vultraz> probably not
20180225 04:49:08< celticminstrel> I didn't think it would.
20180225 04:49:11< vultraz> there's a perfectly valid alternative
20180225 04:49:15< celticminstrel> Is there?
20180225 04:49:21< vultraz> since IIRC you can already specify an image
20180225 04:50:27< celticminstrel> I think all you'd need to do is accept the label/description keys and deprecate name, or some such?
20180225 04:50:47< celticminstrel> The only real benefit DescriptionWML would've added is a second column in the dropdown menu, I think.
20180225 04:51:12< vultraz> I don't know what you're talking about
20180225 04:51:31< celticminstrel> The dropdown menu in MP Create.
20180225 04:51:36< celticminstrel> Oh, wait.
20180225 04:51:40< vultraz> what?
20180225 04:51:41< vultraz> no?
20180225 04:51:48< vultraz> that's the stuff in Faction Select
20180225 04:51:48< celticminstrel> There no longer is a dropdown menu is there.
20180225 04:52:00< vultraz> what are you talking about
20180225 04:52:02< celticminstrel> So what you'd need is a second column in Faction Select?
20180225 04:52:04< vultraz> there's never been a dropdown
20180225 04:52:20< celticminstrel> ...do you not remember the old MP Create at all? Go launch up 1.12 for a moment and try starting a local game.
20180225 04:52:30< vultraz> there's a dropdown for recruits in the leader selection in the FLG dialog
20180225 04:52:34< vultraz> that's it
20180225 04:52:40< vultraz> and no
20180225 04:52:41< vultraz> I will not
20180225 04:52:44< vultraz> because I don't have 1.12
20180225 04:52:46< vultraz> :P
20180225 04:52:49< vultraz> haven't for ages
20180225 04:52:50< celticminstrel> Blasphemy!
20180225 04:53:21< vultraz> but seriously, [multiplayer_side] is the lefthand list in the faction select/flg dialog
20180225 04:53:23< vultraz> that's it
20180225 04:53:27< vultraz> AFAIK
20180225 04:53:29< vultraz> not a dropdown
20180225 04:53:33< vultraz> never been a dropdown
20180225 04:54:13< celticminstrel> Haha you have a bad memory.
20180225 04:54:56< vultraz> Thought maybe you mean the drop down in the old staging screen
20180225 04:55:00< vultraz> Perhaps that’s what you mean
20180225 04:55:13< celticminstrel> Uh. So you do remember?
20180225 04:55:20< vultraz> you didn't say staging
20180225 04:55:21< vultraz> you said create
20180225 04:55:28< celticminstrel> Close enough.
20180225 04:55:43< celticminstrel> Anyway, I'll go open an issue.
20180225 04:55:47< vultraz> anyway, whatever, descriptionwml no longer supported in any way there
20180225 04:55:51< vultraz> don't
20180225 04:56:07< vultraz> because there is CURRENTLY no dropdown that uses that data
20180225 04:56:07< vultraz> :|
20180225 04:56:10< celticminstrel> It's a regression. That's not acceptable.
20180225 04:56:14< celticminstrel> We can use it in the flg dialog.
20180225 04:56:27< vultraz> no no no no no no no no no no no no no NO NO
20180225 04:56:59< celticminstrel> A FEATURE HAS BEEN ARBITRARILY REMOVED FOR NO REASON. THAT IS NOT ACCEPTABLE IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM.
20180225 04:57:23< vultraz> YES. SOMETIMES IT IS ACCEPTABLE
20180225 04:57:31< vultraz> BECAUSE THE FEATURE WAS USELESS
20180225 04:57:48< celticminstrel> You don't have the right to judge whether the feature is useless.
20180225 04:57:55< vultraz> it's not as if it was the only way to specify an image
20180225 04:58:00< vultraz> and the image specifies was not even TCed
20180225 04:58:20< celticminstrel> There's a fair point there, but DescriptionWML also allows adding another column.
20180225 04:58:59< vultraz> I don't care. The new DescriptionWML was never intended for use everywhere
20180225 04:59:18< vultraz> It was intended for [option] and [campaign][difficulty]
20180225 04:59:30< celticminstrel> I doubt you have any idea what it was truly intended for.
20180225 04:59:37< vultraz> I ADDED IT
20180225 04:59:50< celticminstrel> Oh, I misread that as "old DescriptionWML".
20180225 05:02:22< vultraz> I don't think there's even any consistent deployment of the new keys
20180225 05:02:34< vultraz> might be
20180225 05:03:09< vultraz> But besides the point. I do not care if a column vanished. No one should have been putting anything there anyway
20180225 05:04:30< celticminstrel> Well, I'm opening the issue. We can discuss it there and decide then. Don't just go close it immediately, at least give it a week.
20180225 05:04:46< celticminstrel> While it is a regression, it's a relatively minor one.
20180225 05:05:22< vultraz> Now, if you're saying we should use the `legacy_menu_item` on that key and maybe the one in [set_menu_item] to ensure the existing crappy-ass markup works, even if part of it is thrown out? sure
20180225 05:05:24< vultraz> we can do that
20180225 05:05:36< celticminstrel> We should absolutely do that at a minimum.
20180225 05:05:49< vultraz> though I'd prefer if it broke so people fixed it immediately
20180225 05:06:47< vultraz> You know what else is a regression? The credits don't display in help anymore
20180225 05:06:47< celticminstrel> ...wait, are you implying an extra column doesn't work in [set_menu_item]?
20180225 05:06:50< vultraz> does anyone care about that?
20180225 05:06:52< vultraz> no!
20180225 05:07:02< celticminstrel> Define your "no" please.
20180225 05:07:12< vultraz> it probably does, since that uses the dropdown menu
20180225 05:07:18< celticminstrel> Ah, okay.
20180225 05:07:19< vultraz> which is configured for multiple columns
20180225 05:07:29< vultraz> though the third one is used for hotkeys
20180225 05:07:40< vultraz> so I'd probably throw out anything set to that column
20180225 05:08:02< celticminstrel> I kinda think someone should test it in 1.12 to see if it worked.
20180225 05:10:17< vultraz> I guess I should move the deprecation message to legacy_menu_item and not where it's used 
20180225 05:10:27< celticminstrel> Yeah, I was just thinking about that.
20180225 05:10:38< celticminstrel> Make it use the deprecation_message function while you're at it?
20180225 05:10:40< vultraz> ie, this is he thing now
20180225 05:10:41< vultraz> WRN_WML << "[campaign] difficulties,difficulty_descriptions= is deprecated. Use [difficulty] instead" << std::endl;
20180225 05:10:47< vultraz> should be something in the parser like
20180225 05:10:59< vultraz> "Legacy DescriptionWML format is deprecated, update this instant"
20180225 05:12:42< celticminstrel> And thanks for reminding me of the credits in help, that's also something that needs addressing.
20180225 05:13:24< celticminstrel> I opened another issue for it. I don't really care what's done about it though.
20180225 05:13:46< vultraz> i want to remove it, but i f i remove the [topic] from the help cfg nothing appears in help at all
20180225 05:14:03< celticminstrel> XD What
20180225 05:14:21< vultraz> IDFKINFI
20180225 05:14:28< vultraz> IDFKIHNFI*
20180225 05:14:32< celticminstrel> Well maybe someone else can figure it out.
20180225 05:14:47< celticminstrel> It's low priority, but it would be really nice to have it for 1.14 IMO.
20180225 05:14:56< celticminstrel> One way or another.
20180225 05:14:56< vultraz> only reason i disabled it was i couldn't figure out how to make it render
20180225 05:15:01< vultraz> but it's not important
20180225 05:15:03< vultraz> just remove it
20180225 05:15:16< celticminstrel> Like I said, I don't care. One way or another it does need to be addressed.
20180225 05:16:34< vultraz> anyway
20180225 05:16:53< vultraz> im prerfectly willing to add legacy parsing to those two cases but absolitely under no circumstances adding another column
20180225 05:17:16< celticminstrel> Another column in the right-click menu would be hard, at least... :/
20180225 05:17:44< vultraz> I suppose it’s a good thing you reminded me, so I remembered to add the old parsing
20180225 05:17:49< vultraz> And yes. Which is why I don’t intend to do it
20180225 05:18:13< celticminstrel> I don't see the problem in the FLG dialog though.
20180225 05:18:41< vultraz> And I’m not adding a description to a multiplayer side because the last thing I want is something thinking they can stuff a 20 lime description I’m there
20180225 05:19:15< vultraz> Unless you want me to stick the description in the details area
20180225 05:19:16< celticminstrel> I kinda get your point, but uh... I imagine if someone actually did it they would very quickly realize that that's not what the key is for.
20180225 05:19:21< vultraz> That might be acceptable
20180225 05:19:51< celticminstrel> A description in the details area might actually be nice, TBH. I'm not sure if it really satisfies the DescriptionWML thing though, which was more for short strings.
20180225 05:20:08< vultraz> You could stuff as much as you wanted in there
20180225 05:21:41< vultraz> Which reminds me we should rename multiplayer_side
20180225 05:21:54< vultraz> It’s too confusing
20180225 05:22:18< vultraz> Not sure why it’s not called [faction]
20180225 05:22:29< celticminstrel> Uh. Maybe wait for 1.15 on that though.
20180225 05:22:37< celticminstrel> I support the idea, but I don't think now is the best time.
20180225 05:24:06< vultraz> Level 1 deprecation even?
20180225 05:24:21< vultraz> Wait no
20180225 05:24:23< vultraz> 2
20180225 05:24:38< celticminstrel> Level 1 deprecation is definitely fine... level 2... maybe?
20180225 05:25:08< celticminstrel> I'd not really recommend it, but on the other hand, I was even contemplating it a little myself in the Lua API so...
20180225 05:26:25< vultraz> I assume faction is a a good name
20180225 05:26:44< vultraz> It is handled by the Faction Leader Gender manager after all
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20180225 05:43:08< vultraz> celticminstrel: OTHO, if [multiplayer_side] accepts many the same keys as [side] as the wiki says, perhaps it's more logical...
20180225 05:44:23< celticminstrel> Perhaps.
20180225 05:44:29< celticminstrel> Does it accept many of the same keys as side?
20180225 05:44:43< celticminstrel> TBH it didn't look that way to me.
20180225 05:44:44< vultraz> the wiki says so
20180225 05:44:49< celticminstrel> From the wiki.
20180225 05:44:58< vultraz> "This tag contains many of the same keys as a [side] tag (A description of the [side] tag can be found in SideWML). When a multiplayer game is played, then the [side] tag for the scenario is merged with the keys(currently, not tags) of the [multiplayer_side] tag of the faction which the side chose."
20180225 05:45:13< celticminstrel> Oh, hmm, I see.
20180225 05:45:17< celticminstrel> Interesting.
20180225 05:45:29< vultraz> but still
20180225 05:45:41< vultraz> even if they accept the same keys, they're not really... logistically similar...
20180225 05:45:43< vultraz> er
20180225 05:45:49< vultraz> perceptually
20180225 05:47:16< vultraz> would also like to rename terrain_liked to terrain_favored
20180225 05:47:42< celticminstrel> No real point, both names basically get the same point across.
20180225 06:06:11< JyrkiVesterinen> 20180225 03:58:43< celticminstrel> FTR, the Unreal engine also offers both types of fullscreen.
20180225 06:06:11< JyrkiVesterinen> 20180225 03:58:53< celticminstrel> Not sure about Unity but it wouldn't surprise me.
20180225 06:06:20< JyrkiVesterinen> Yep, Unity offers both kinds of fullscreen as well.
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20180225 06:56:39< irker020> wesnoth/wesnoth:master Charles Dang 1ac8fd06aa Better fix for #1390 to address the corn AppVeyor: All builds passed
20180225 07:17:47< shadowm> Address the corn. Okay.
20180225 07:29:37< vultraz> All hail the corn
20180225 07:31:44< celticminstrel> Looks like [multiplayer_side] actually has a description key already... dunno if it's used though...
20180225 07:44:27< vultraz> neeeeinnnnnn
20180225 07:44:47< vultraz> celticminstrel: it's the help text
20180225 07:46:47< celticminstrel> Ah.
20180225 07:47:15< vultraz> so NO DICE :P
20180225 07:47:43< vultraz> (I also stripped that key from network data. It's no longer transmitted over the network)
20180225 08:05:10< celticminstrel> WELL
20180225 08:05:29< celticminstrel> My schema now covers everything needed to load the tutorial except:
20180225 08:05:33< celticminstrel> * ThemeWML
20180225 08:05:36< celticminstrel> * HelpWML
20180225 08:05:42< celticminstrel> * TerrainGraphicsWML
20180225 08:05:46< celticminstrel> \o/
20180225 08:05:54 * celticminstrel flopsnoozes.
20180225 08:06:00-!- celticminstrel is now known as celmin|sleep
20180225 08:06:18< celmin|sleep> (Also uncovered about five errors.)
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20180225 09:34:54-!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: Gambit
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20180225 10:17:17< irker741> wesnoth/wesnoth:master Victor Sergienko d01865405a po_stat: switch to pure Python, 2-compat AppVeyor: All builds passed
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20180225 11:59:29< irker741> wesnoth: doofus-01 wesnoth:master 9069a4fa9b74 / data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/ (6 files in 2 dirs): UtBS: defense animations for Quenoth Elves (#2553) https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/9069a4fa9b748dcee76ef60ca641d4d895f2024e
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20180225 14:17:02< octalot> in #wesnoth there's discussion about using 1.13.11 to test using Github for release binaries. I think that would be good, but I think it would be better to make a new release first, with the already-fixed MP bugs fixed. Particularly #2546 (other players' chat doesn't show if "quick replays" was enabled).
20180225 14:23:02< JyrkiVesterinen> They're orthogonal things. They can be done independently of each other.
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20180225 14:38:10< AI0867> loonycyborg: should I make you the owner of the packagers list?
20180225 14:38:48< loonycyborg> better not for now, I don't know how to properly administer them yet
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20180225 15:25:56< irker741> wesnoth/wesnoth:master doofus-01 9069a4fa9b UtBS: defense animations for Quenoth Elv AppVeyor: All builds passed
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20180225 15:56:43< gfgtdf> octalot: is your pr ready to merge ?
20180225 15:56:54< gfgtdf> (LoW)
20180225 16:00:42< octalot> now that it's got 2 commits in it, yes. Thanks for the link to the old bug
20180225 16:01:36< irker741> wesnoth: Steve Cotton wesnoth:master 3528c1a365ef / data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/utils/characters.cfg: LoW Some loyal units were missing the IS_LOYAL overlay https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/3528c1a365efad51598787e4dd74894d74b665ad
20180225 16:01:38< irker741> wesnoth: Steve Cotton wesnoth:master 39da6a39c345 / data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/scenarios/chapter1/03_Kalian_under_Attack.cfg: LoW S03 Remove an IS_LOYAL overlay from a non-loyal unit https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/39da6a39c345cff97f7716f098ba53f903943117
20180225 16:01:40< irker741> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master afb8ca9a2459 / data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/ (scenarios/chapter1/03_Kalian_under_Attack.cfg utils/characters.cfg): Merge pull request #2556 from stevecotton/low_loyal_dwarves, fixes #1421 https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/afb8ca9a2459684bbc84c38e1c5edfff2623f500
20180225 16:02:56< gfgtdf> octalot: if yopu like fixing wml issues you could also look into those reported in the forum about NR https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&p=623812#p623812
20180225 16:06:22< octalot> At the moment, even using the :next_level command, I doubt that I have time to debug NR with multiple combinations of which leaders are alive. :(
20180225 16:09:11< gfgtdf> ok
20180225 16:17:18< irker741> wesnoth/wesnoth:master doofus-01 c81f3022a3 defense animations for Quenoth Elves AppVeyor: All builds passed
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20180225 19:32:03< irker658> wesnoth/wesnoth:master gfgtdf afb8ca9a24 Merge pull request #2556 from stevecotto AppVeyor: All builds passed
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20180225 22:52:33< celticminstrel> Having trouble getting the _lock keys to be recognized in [multiplayer][side]...
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20180225 22:58:55< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: how so? Also note that those might also be valid in mp campaigns
20180225 22:59:18< celticminstrel> Oh, really? Hmm. I guess I'll just accept them in [scenario]]side] then.
20180225 23:00:02< celticminstrel> I'm not sure the schema correctly handles the case of a tag that inherits from another tag and overrides one of its subtags... though looking at the source I don't actually see anything wrong with it...
20180225 23:01:41< celticminstrel> On an unrelated note, is there any particular reason why all the MP scenarios need to be loaded when in the map editor?
20180225 23:02:19< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: not sure, at lest the random maps can also be used in the editor, but i don't knwo the reason for the other scenarios.
20180225 23:02:51< gfgtdf> probably that's jsut it and people just included them all for lazyness
20180225 23:03:57< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: your new validator is part of wesnoth, in patilcular it work on preprocessed config object right?
20180225 23:04:28< celticminstrel> My understanding is that it's validated as it's parsed, which occurs after the preprocessor has run over it.
20180225 23:05:11< celticminstrel> It's not my validator, either. It's been used to validate the GUI2 WML for ages.
20180225 23:05:29< celticminstrel> I'm just extending it and writing a schema for the core game config.
20180225 23:08:39< celticminstrel> Apparently there's a [multiplayer] with define=, is that valid?
20180225 23:10:52< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: yes it it, but iirc it has some problems with randomly generated maps, so maybe we shodul disallow using define= and map_generation/scenario_generation= at the same time
20180225 23:11:19< celticminstrel> Is it valid for any scenario or only MP ones?
20180225 23:12:03< celticminstrel> Is experience_modifier supposed to be set to 70 or 70%?
20180225 23:12:04< gfgtdf> only [multiplayer]
20180225 23:12:15< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: not sure on experience_modifier 
20180225 23:12:37< celticminstrel> I assume turns=unlimited is in fact valid?
20180225 23:12:45< celticminstrel> Or should it be turns=-1?
20180225 23:13:11< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: i have never seen turns=unlimited 
20180225 23:14:33< gfgtdf> my guess woudl be it's not valid but you never know unless you look at the c++ code.
20180225 23:15:19< vultraz> doesn't look like it's valid
20180225 23:23:07< celticminstrel> I could probably push this today for preliminary review, actually. Depending on whether I can finish up the editor data schema, but I don't expect that to be too difficult.
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20180225 23:34:32< irker270> wesnoth: Charles Dang website:develop a3cdefe6a42b / eclipse.wesnoth.org/index.html: E.W.O: some initial work to update site from Glamdrol to Wesmere https://github.com/wesnoth/website/commit/a3cdefe6a42bb0b67cb5da9da5a9d7258a222fad
--- Log closed Mon Feb 26 00:00:39 2018