--- Log opened Sun Feb 18 00:00:12 2018 20180218 00:18:46-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has joined #wesnoth 20180218 00:27:13<+wesnoth-discord-> I think that would probably swing too far the other way, since elves depend on combat extending over multiple turns to take advantage of free damage and healing. 20180218 00:29:22-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20180218 00:38:05-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180218 00:38:15-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20180218 00:52:13-!- octalot [~steve@77.119.128.116.wireless.dyn.drei.com] has quit [] 20180218 00:57:38-!- babyflakes [uid171740@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vtibsrllhogdzacz] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 20180218 01:03:47<+wesnoth-discord-> Hey guys! 20180218 01:04:46<+wesnoth-discord-> lol good point Visage 20180218 01:04:50<+wesnoth-discord-> Hi Sev! 20180218 01:05:12<+wesnoth-discord-> well woses would be pretty dang powerful though 20180218 01:05:18<+wesnoth-discord-> and elves would be good against units like spearmen and such 20180218 01:20:55<+wesnoth-discord-> True. I guess the meta would become attacking units with weak retal 20180218 01:21:07<+wesnoth-discord-> Which is basically what it is now πŸ€” 20180218 01:23:35<+wesnoth-discord-> Ay 20180218 01:23:43<+wesnoth-discord-> Anyone here play werferm 20180218 01:25:50<+wesnoth-discord-> Hey all, how can I contact the guys who started Wesnoth? Are they still around? 20180218 01:27:49-!- Bonobo [~Bonobo@61.68.156.44] has joined #wesnoth 20180218 01:28:28<+wesnoth-discord-> meta? lol 20180218 01:28:38<+wesnoth-discord-> No idea sev, but some must be here indeed :3 20180218 01:30:47<+wesnoth-discord-> @Kiiviing_Zindaal I played Warframe for a while πŸ‘€ 20180218 01:31:22<+wesnoth-discord-> Ah, fun! 20180218 01:31:30<+wesnoth-discord-> @RC-1207 "Sev" They are busy people, always. Is there anything in particular you'd like to ask? 20180218 01:31:35<+wesnoth-discord-> If you ever need help with anything in game let me know 20180218 01:32:25<+wesnoth-discord-> Unfortunately, I'm in much the same position except I don't really play anymore πŸ‘€ 20180218 01:46:39-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180218 02:47:08<+wesnoth-discord-> We do need artists. 20180218 02:48:08-!- celticminstrel is now known as celmin|sleep 20180218 02:48:12<+wesnoth-discord-> I personally think the game art is very good; much better than I could do. 20180218 02:56:32-!- Narrat [~Narrat@p5DCC67B4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance.] 20180218 03:43:09-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180218 03:43:19-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20180218 04:17:07<+wesnoth-discord-> Since people were asking about a Spanish channel the other day, Vultraz just added one to the server. 20180218 04:22:17<+wesnoth-discord-> neat 20180218 04:57:02-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180218 04:57:14-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20180218 05:15:46-!- babyflakes [uid171740@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-aozdanebmsvwiwbb] has joined #wesnoth 20180218 05:32:47< janebot> Tweet (by @Wesnoth) Wesnoth 1.13.11 (1.14 beta 3) is out! http://r.wesnoth.org/t47804 #gamedev [ https://twitter.com/Wesnoth/status/965096736761856000 ] 20180218 05:33:52-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180218 05:34:01-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20180218 05:53:10-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180218 05:53:20-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20180218 05:58:39<+wesnoth-discord-> "Rename the Khalifate to Dunefolk. This includes renaming all the faction's units." https://i.imgur.com/RcbJWWo.gif 20180218 06:03:40<+wesnoth-discord-> It's a development release but CPU usage was decreased by about 50% so I'd say it's actually more stable on my laptop. 20180218 06:04:17<+wesnoth-discord-> πŸ€” 20180218 06:04:28<+wesnoth-discord-> πŸ˜‚ 20180218 06:04:29<+wesnoth-discord-> more stable than the stable release 20180218 06:04:37<+wesnoth-discord-> Still more CPU usage than 1.12 for me. 20180218 06:04:47<+wesnoth-discord-> unavoidable, really 20180218 06:04:50<+wesnoth-discord-> Considerably less than previous dev releases though. 20180218 06:04:55<+wesnoth-discord-> aaand I got an error with ANL Era already 20180218 06:05:04<+wesnoth-discord-> ANL era? 20180218 06:05:23<+wesnoth-discord-> A New Awesome Land 20180218 06:05:32<+wesnoth-discord-> A New Land Era, maybe. 20180218 06:05:36<+wesnoth-discord-> oh okay 20180218 06:06:03<+wesnoth-discord-> oh that's what I meant 20180218 06:06:23<+wesnoth-discord-> okay. That's what I figured. 20180218 06:06:50<+wesnoth-discord-> oh good XP mod ships with the game 20180218 06:23:17<+wesnoth-discord-> Wait. Wha. 20180218 06:23:32<+wesnoth-discord-> What is XP mod? 20180218 06:29:36<+wesnoth-discord-> Or maybe that is an emoticon? 20180218 06:30:33<+wesnoth-discord-> @shadowm some of my mods appear to have migrated, but I thought Ravana XP Mod shipped default with 1.13.11 20180218 06:30:59<+wesnoth-discord-> As far as I know there aren't any built-in mods, otherwise they'd surely have been mentioned in the release announcement. 20180218 06:31:22<+wesnoth-discord-> it's an addon where you spend exp to gain unit effects 20180218 06:31:33<+wesnoth-discord-> Im so happy about 1.13.1 20180218 06:31:37<+wesnoth-discord-> XP Modification This addon provides rightclick menu that allows you to spend unit experience for upgrades. Costs can be changed during game creation, and by default are: * 6 xp for 4 health * 10 xp for 1 movement (for the next turn and all subsequent) * 16 xp for 1 additional damage (for each weapon) * 56 xp for 1 additional strikes (for each weapon) You may locally change slider ranges without any out of sync problems. XP 20180218 06:31:37<+wesnoth-discord-> Modification is continuation of XP Era from wesnoth 1.10, based on work by Dovolente, itota and Nosmos. 20180218 06:34:07<+wesnoth-discord-> does anyone know how to make a side AI 20180218 06:34:27<+wesnoth-discord-> :droid on the side's turn. 20180218 06:34:36<+wesnoth-discord-> It makes it AI controlled. 20180218 06:34:38<+wesnoth-discord-> I'm going to make all sides Local Player and then do that 20180218 06:34:48<+wesnoth-discord-> but I don't see the option in the lobby 20180218 06:35:11<+wesnoth-discord-> the server lobby? 20180218 06:35:35<+wesnoth-discord-> the game lobby 20180218 06:36:54<+wesnoth-discord-> recruit list is no longer bound to numbers on the keyboard 20180218 06:41:22<+wesnoth-discord-> nice update 20180218 06:41:55<+wesnoth-discord-> it looks shiny 20180218 06:45:01<+wesnoth-discord-> Want to try out my add-on? 20180218 06:45:05<+wesnoth-discord-> yea 20180218 06:45:31<+wesnoth-discord-> Simple Hot Keys 20180218 06:45:33<+wesnoth-discord-> https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=41525&hilit=Simple+hotkeys 20180218 06:46:25<+wesnoth-discord-> oh 20180218 06:46:49<+wesnoth-discord-> Because so many of the default keys seem… complicated 20180218 06:47:09<+wesnoth-discord-> Ya know it might be a good idea to include XP mod by default 20180218 06:47:13<+wesnoth-discord-> never mind 20180218 06:47:19<+wesnoth-discord-> I shall consider 20180218 06:47:20<+wesnoth-discord-> I only use default wesnoth settings 20180218 06:48:15<+wesnoth-discord-> I mean 20180218 06:48:28<+wesnoth-discord-> I pretty much memorized the keybindings, but one of them is gone now 20180218 06:49:14<+wesnoth-discord-> Practically every game out there uses \`` for the console, yet Wesnoth uses:` 20180218 06:49:34<+wesnoth-discord-> (Now either works) 20180218 06:50:40<+wesnoth-discord-> ` is a different console πŸ˜› 20180218 06:50:51<+wesnoth-discord-> How do you mean? 20180218 06:50:55<+wesnoth-discord-> lua console 20180218 06:51:02<+wesnoth-discord-> : is command console 20180218 06:51:07<+wesnoth-discord-> Two consoles? 20180218 06:51:14<+wesnoth-discord-> Oh boy 20180218 06:51:21<+wesnoth-discord-> yes 20180218 06:51:25<+wesnoth-discord-> plus the inspector 20180218 06:52:20<+wesnoth-discord-> The game already has its own markup language and Lua interpreter, right? 20180218 06:52:37<+wesnoth-discord-> Just a hop skip and a jump away from turning Wesnoth into an IDE 20180218 06:52:43<+wesnoth-discord-> markup language yes 20180218 06:52:57<+wesnoth-discord-> lua... well, we have the lua api 20180218 06:53:00<+wesnoth-discord-> but underneath it's just lua 20180218 06:54:02<+wesnoth-discord-> If I was in college taking a Lua class, I would try to convince my professor that Wesnoth is my IDE of choice 20180218 06:54:51<+wesnoth-discord-> Does anyone really go to college anymore? It's prohibitively expensive. 20180218 06:54:58<+wesnoth-discord-> raises eyebrow 20180218 06:55:07<+wesnoth-discord-> nyuck nyuck nyuck 20180218 06:55:11<+wesnoth-discord-> Online courses can be cheap 20180218 06:55:20<+wesnoth-discord-> college is very important 20180218 06:56:05<+wesnoth-discord-> I hope so, I was there 20180218 06:56:31<+wesnoth-discord-> πŸ‘Œ 20180218 07:20:09<+wesnoth-discord-> @shadowm Thanks for the answer! I just had some questions for them, and an idea/project I wanted to discuss/get permission for before I embarked on it. 20180218 07:21:01<+wesnoth-discord-> . 20180218 07:22:30<+wesnoth-discord-> Btw, I was wondering why the character art changed in Heir to the Throne? My favorite versions were the "Anime/Manga" style... 20180218 07:22:52<+wesnoth-discord-> Because we wanted to replace it and depart from that style. 20180218 07:22:58<+wesnoth-discord-> Hmmm... 20180218 07:23:16<+wesnoth-discord-> Do you know where I can get that art again? 20180218 07:23:52<+wesnoth-discord-> All Wesnoth versions are available on sourceforge but I don't remember what was the last version to ship with the animu portraits. 20180218 07:24:15<+wesnoth-discord-> Ok, thanks. I guess I'll just manually check. 20180218 07:24:43<+wesnoth-discord-> As for your other questions/ideas, maybe writing a forum post so that it isn't forgotten/overlooked would be a better idea? 20180218 07:25:07<+wesnoth-discord-> http://wesnoth.wikia.com/wiki/Princess_Li%27sar 20180218 07:25:10<+wesnoth-discord-> apparently on the wiki 20180218 07:25:13<+wesnoth-discord-> it's still the old one 20180218 07:25:19<+wesnoth-discord-> Anyway I can say with absolute certainty that e.g. 1.6.0 still had the old portraits. 20180218 07:25:24<+wesnoth-discord-> Yumi that's not our wiki. 20180218 07:25:30<+wesnoth-discord-> well it's a diff wiki 20180218 07:25:37<+wesnoth-discord-> you can just google it and the old portraits come up 20180218 07:25:42<+wesnoth-discord-> I have no idea how runs that but the official wiki is https://wiki.wesnoth.org/ 20180218 07:26:05<+wesnoth-discord-> My only reservation about doing that is because I wanted to talk to the devs privately about it. :/ Sorry. 20180218 07:26:34<+wesnoth-discord-> Thanks for letting me know the version # btw. 20180218 07:26:46<+wesnoth-discord-> πŸ‘ 20180218 07:26:56<+wesnoth-discord-> I am still kind of a developer, even if I don't work in the game itself anymore these days. 20180218 07:27:23<+wesnoth-discord-> But if you want an official authority you will have to contact Vultraz privately these days. The original devs do not work in the game anymore either. 20180218 07:28:40<+wesnoth-discord-> I feel like I cannot complain about that particular art change since I don't play httt anymore and dont plan to anytime soon but to me it seems like the most senseless portrait change 20180218 07:28:55<+wesnoth-discord-> I know about 20180218 07:29:25<+wesnoth-discord-> There have already been countless words written about those portraits being changed. 20180218 07:29:29<+wesnoth-discord-> Let's not get into another discussion 20180218 07:29:48<+wesnoth-discord-> first of all, why is she so armored on the portrait, it doesn't make any sense 20180218 07:29:55<+wesnoth-discord-> this part actually bothers me the most 20180218 07:30:07<+wesnoth-discord-> ................................ 20180218 07:30:07<+wesnoth-discord-> EoZ, the bottomline is this game is made and run by volunteers and they decide how to make the game. 20180218 07:30:11<+wesnoth-discord-> no comment. 20180218 07:30:21<+wesnoth-discord-> There's no need to go deeper into it. 20180218 07:30:51<+wesnoth-discord-> not consistent with sprite not consistent with resistances, not really consistent with other portraits of units having similiar res 20180218 07:30:52<+wesnoth-discord-> And vultraz, if it bothers you that much you can just ignore the subject. 20180218 07:31:13<+wesnoth-discord-> I must monitor this discussion lest it get out of control 20180218 07:31:13<+wesnoth-discord-> @EoZ have you not seen the new sprites? 20180218 07:31:28<+wesnoth-discord-> Li'sar is very much an armored general now 20180218 07:31:46<+wesnoth-discord-> There's been some sort of discussion about resistances/skirmisher though 20180218 07:31:48<+wesnoth-discord-> of course 20180218 07:31:54<+wesnoth-discord-> Not sure how far that went 20180218 07:31:59<+wesnoth-discord-> this is what i am talking about all the time 20180218 07:32:20<+wesnoth-discord-> Hey guys, sorry for sparking another debate. I guess if I want the old art I'll manually replace the pictures myself. 20180218 07:32:33<+wesnoth-discord-> Please don't fight about this. 20180218 07:33:18<+wesnoth-discord-> It's not exactly late to fix her stats right now since it's a campaign-specific unit, so if you can get that back on track it'd be much appreciated. The proper medium for that is the forums, though. 20180218 07:33:53<+wesnoth-discord-> was her sprite changed? 20180218 07:34:00<+wesnoth-discord-> Yes. 20180218 07:34:49<+wesnoth-discord-> Well, I gtg now guys. Time for those few hours of blessed unconsciousness... 20180218 07:34:50<+wesnoth-discord-> that's quite a lot of armor πŸ˜‚ 20180218 07:34:51<+wesnoth-discord-> really? at first glance i dont see a change in 1.12.2 20180218 07:34:55<+wesnoth-discord-> in 1.13 20180218 07:35:04<+wesnoth-discord-> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/231976805987385345/414686236813557761/unknown.png 20180218 07:35:09<+wesnoth-discord-> Dang. 20180218 07:35:14<+wesnoth-discord-> EoZ why are you using 1.12.2? 20180218 07:35:14<+wesnoth-discord-> ok i see 20180218 07:35:26<+wesnoth-discord-> because i had bugs with 1.12.5 20180218 07:35:30<+wesnoth-discord-> I liked the fact she was a fencer better... 20180218 07:35:51<+wesnoth-discord-> Well, as long as you are not an add-on author EoZ... 20180218 07:36:08<+wesnoth-discord-> @EoZ ah well that explains πŸ˜† 20180218 07:36:08<+wesnoth-discord-> Eh, glad all the old downloads are still there though! 20180218 07:36:16<+wesnoth-discord-> Otherwise, if you are an add-on author you shouldn't be using anything older than 1.12.4: https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=42776 20180218 07:36:17<+wesnoth-discord-> for some reason it appears that in 1.12.5 there was a chance of some bugs related with sandbox occuring in MP 20180218 07:37:08<+wesnoth-discord-> MP is still alive? 20180218 07:37:08<+wesnoth-discord-> ok, i am not an add on author, though recently I had an addon commisioned xD 20180218 07:37:28<+wesnoth-discord-> 1.12.x multiplayer is very much alive, yes. It's development versions that people avoid like the plague. 20180218 07:37:40<+wesnoth-discord-> (Then they complain when a bunch of unreported bugs crop up at the next stable series .0.) 20180218 07:37:50<+wesnoth-discord-> Nice! I'll have to try it out sometime. 20180218 07:38:06<+wesnoth-discord-> I've only ever played the campaigns. 20180218 07:41:35<+wesnoth-discord-> Btw i have read most of the new lisar portrait thread and i pretty much agree with all the points for leaving the old on i have readt here 20180218 07:42:12<+wesnoth-discord-> I wonder when the last such thread will be... 20180218 07:43:54<+wesnoth-discord-> People enjoy beating dead horses for some reason. 20180218 07:44:05<+wesnoth-discord-> Even if it's a waste of everyone's time. 20180218 07:44:51<+wesnoth-discord-> especially when it's a waste of everyone's time 20180218 07:45:05<+wesnoth-discord-> tru dat 20180218 07:45:15<+wesnoth-discord-> The best thing about Wesnoth is… you can change everything! 20180218 07:45:24<+wesnoth-discord-> It’s moddable, and open source 20180218 07:45:39<+wesnoth-discord-> idk, changing the portrait and creating a new sprite does seem a bit like a waste of time to me 20180218 07:45:54<+wesnoth-discord-> Probably someone already has done the work for you 20180218 07:46:13<+wesnoth-discord-> You would not be the first person to ask for some old art asses 20180218 07:46:16<+wesnoth-discord-> you would also need to change the Httt plot for the change to be justified and also the unit 20180218 07:46:36<+wesnoth-discord-> Change the plot? 20180218 07:46:37<+wesnoth-discord-> The plot doesn't have to change 20180218 07:46:48<+wesnoth-discord-> It's more normal for generals to have good gear 20180218 07:46:54<+wesnoth-discord-> Sigh. 20180218 07:47:02<+wesnoth-discord-> Lol 20180218 07:47:09<+wesnoth-discord-> EoZ, technically, developing this game is by definition a waste of our time. 20180218 07:47:27<+wesnoth-discord-> We're not paid for it and we get nothing in exchange other than happy players who like the game. 20180218 07:47:29<+wesnoth-discord-> @shadowm was anyone ever working on new story images for HttT, or just TRoW? 20180218 07:47:52<+wesnoth-discord-> just TRoW 20180218 07:47:58<+wesnoth-discord-> Sometimes we decide to do things a certain way and we always take constructive criticism into account. 20180218 07:48:06<+wesnoth-discord-> Ok that's what I thought 20180218 07:48:30<+wesnoth-discord-> I didn't start the talk about wasting time 20180218 07:48:43<+wesnoth-discord-> But there's a limit to how much you can sway our opinion of how things should be done when we're investing all our resources into this without concrete compensation for it. 20180218 07:49:07<+wesnoth-discord-> And this especially applies to the artists who came up with the current style. 20180218 07:50:18<+wesnoth-discord-> I just hope there isn't outcry when NR gets repaints 20180218 07:50:25<+wesnoth-discord-> lmaoooo 20180218 07:50:30<+wesnoth-discord-> πŸ˜‚ 20180218 07:51:22<+wesnoth-discord-> I have pretty much read that in the thread, of course you can do whatever changes you like but in that particular change I really do not see a reason for it 20180218 07:51:35<+wesnoth-discord-> @EoZ I have found that the best way to make the game better is to contribute yourself. We are always looking for more contributors. Making new maps, drawing new pictures, fixing bugs, you name it. 20180218 07:51:38<+wesnoth-discord-> And there doesn't need to be a reason for it. 20180218 07:51:53<+wesnoth-discord-> Not one beyond the people who agreed to make it happen wanting it to happen. 20180218 07:52:55<+wesnoth-discord-> at least a good reason for it. Yes I guess you are right 20180218 07:53:03<+wesnoth-discord-> @EoZ I bet you could make a better scenario than HttT. 20180218 07:53:05<+wesnoth-discord-> I know a lot of people are typing a lot right now but let me flip this around for a moment. 20180218 07:53:22<+wesnoth-discord-> If someone wants to make an add-on full of anime-style portraits, we're not going to stop or discourage them. 20180218 07:53:49<+wesnoth-discord-> That's the author's choice and no-one should be deciding for them what their add-on should be like. 20180218 07:54:36<+wesnoth-discord-> Well, nice that you believe in me but I think that making scenarios is really not my thing xD 20180218 07:54:56<+wesnoth-discord-> That was just a general hypothetical example. 20180218 07:56:21<+wesnoth-discord-> I thought changing the frail blonde princess to someone more believable was worth a change. The anime assets still exist, knock yourself out, @EoZ 20180218 07:56:39<+wesnoth-discord-> It's easy for a lot of people to say "Wesnoth should be like this", "Wesnoth should be like that", "Wesnoth should not do this", but if someone told them the same things regarding their own creations (made with a sufficiently similar amount of effort, especially) they probably wouldn't take it very well. 20180218 07:57:49<+wesnoth-discord-> That applies to more aspects of the game's design than just art (see also the role of RNG in Wesnoth). 20180218 07:57:50<+wesnoth-discord-> Also generally speaking I think it is good if there is a good reason for putting effort into changing art in some well established piece of work, I think if you want to change a well known and "classical" piece of work like a campaign you should have a good reason for it but it is just my opinion. 20180218 07:58:34<+wesnoth-discord-> Ultimately, if you really need to look for a practical reason, there is one, as flimsy as it might seem when not presented with its complete historical context. 20180218 07:58:38<+wesnoth-discord-> The reasoning has been to bring the art in line with all the rest of the game's art 20180218 07:58:43<+wesnoth-discord-> ^ 20180218 07:59:02<+wesnoth-discord-> I'm just not sure if I feel like looking up the version numbers at 5 am. 20180218 07:59:32<+wesnoth-discord-> doofus: I think that a female general in a full piece of armor is still not very believable, changing something very not believable to something slightly less not believable doesn't seem that good 20180218 07:59:49<+wesnoth-discord-> I.... 20180218 07:59:50<+wesnoth-discord-> what 20180218 07:59:59<+wesnoth-discord-> :bowman: 20180218 08:00:16<+wesnoth-discord-> I mean, LARPers wear chain mail just fine, don't see why someone trained to war wouldn't be able to carry it 20180218 08:00:47<+wesnoth-discord-> It's not a hundred pounds of steel either 20180218 08:00:59<+wesnoth-discord-> This game is built on things less believable than a person wearing a custom-built armour suit. 20180218 08:01:03<+wesnoth-discord-> I was rather referring more to the female part 20180218 08:01:10<+wesnoth-discord-> 😐 20180218 08:01:11<+wesnoth-discord-> So am I 20180218 08:01:16<+wesnoth-discord-> Joan of Arc, anyone? 20180218 08:01:30<+wesnoth-discord-> She wore a chainmail bikini. Duh. 20180218 08:01:31<+wesnoth-discord-> Spoiler: There’s a guy that shoots lightning out of a stick of wood. 20180218 08:01:44<+wesnoth-discord-> one in history 20180218 08:01:58<+wesnoth-discord-> Oh! speaking of Joan 20180218 08:02:01<+wesnoth-discord-> I think you might want to research on some more history before that. 20180218 08:02:28<+wesnoth-discord-> And that's beside the point anyway since this is not exactly a historical game. :\ 20180218 08:02:53<+wesnoth-discord-> https://orig00.deviantart.net/b8ca/f/2012/012/3/d/3de610d6d3e96a0ae8c41032fa115274-d4m4pyy.jpg 20180218 08:03:14<+wesnoth-discord-> One of my favorite ever military art pieces 20180218 08:04:18<+wesnoth-discord-> I shall be blunt. If your only argument for lack of realism is that you think women in armor need to have sculpted breastplates with conspicuous cleavage-baring openings, you need to reevaluate your attitude towards women. 20180218 08:04:26<+wesnoth-discord-> Delfador is pretty much as realistic as an anime Lisar is, what is your point 20180218 08:04:49<+wesnoth-discord-> He isn't drawn in an anime style? 20180218 08:05:02<+wesnoth-discord-> At what point did anyone say that an anime Li'sar was undesirable because of not being "realistic"? 20180218 08:05:52<+wesnoth-discord-> I think that's a conclusion you just came up with yourself based on the portrait direction (and eventual redesign of the sprites to match). 20180218 08:05:52<+wesnoth-discord-> I think it is not a good argument to not leave isar drawn in anime style 20180218 08:06:13<+wesnoth-discord-> many arts in many campaigns don't seem consistent in their style 20180218 08:06:19<+wesnoth-discord-> The portraits had to be redraw, FYI. 20180218 08:06:31<+wesnoth-discord-> It was long overdue at that point. 20180218 08:06:32<+wesnoth-discord-> That's because they usually get art from different sources at different points in time 20180218 08:06:40<+wesnoth-discord-> @EoZ campaign art redraws are WIP 20180218 08:06:42<+wesnoth-discord-> Since normally it's people doing art for free, so you take what people offer you 20180218 08:06:46<+wesnoth-discord-> As money and time permit 20180218 08:06:56<+wesnoth-discord-> Occasionally there are commissions though, yes 20180218 08:07:03<+wesnoth-discord-> If you'll let me explain the historical context, Wesnoth didn't have a unified art style before version 1.6. 20180218 08:07:06<+wesnoth-discord-> heh 20180218 08:07:27<+wesnoth-discord-> There has been an ongoing effort for the past several years to get all the portraits redone in a consistent, high-quality, professional style. 20180218 08:07:32<+wesnoth-discord-> An artist donated us her free time and made a full set of portraits for the elves (who only have about two or three portraits at the time) for version 1.6. 20180218 08:07:42<+wesnoth-discord-> also hi everyone, sorry I haven't been around to do writing/campaign things like I'd been preparing to do 20180218 08:07:53<+wesnoth-discord-> to me it seems hardly believable that there will be art consistency throughout mainline campaigns 20180218 08:08:00<+wesnoth-discord-> over the years portraits changed and i guess 20180218 08:08:03<+wesnoth-discord-> it has improved 20180218 08:08:05<+wesnoth-discord-> but still 20180218 08:08:07<+wesnoth-discord-> That also inspired our art director and our main GUI developer at the time to come up with a new design for displaying messages from characters in the game. 20180218 08:08:26<+wesnoth-discord-> The art style that she developed was eventually improved on and refined over time. 20180218 08:09:03<+wesnoth-discord-> And it just so happens that one of the main aspects of that style was aiming for a more (but not entirely) photorealistic aesthetic. 20180218 08:09:59<+wesnoth-discord-> As time went on she and other artists (and developers weighing in as well) felt increasingly more inclined to do away with certain fantasy art tropes that permeate the games industry as a whole. 20180218 08:10:33<+wesnoth-discord-> This all happened organically and because it was convenient to do so while redoing the portraits due to the new technical requirements that the new message GUI introduced. 20180218 08:11:19<+wesnoth-discord-> The timing was just simply too convenient. But it didn't happen overnight either since, again, donated time (although we eventually acquired the resources to commission art as well). 20180218 08:11:35<+wesnoth-discord-> (But even paid commissions take a while to complete if you want them to be good and not rushed.) 20180218 08:11:55<+wesnoth-discord-> This took literally years to complete and HttT was one of the last campaigns to have their portraits overhauled. 20180218 08:12:07<+wesnoth-discord-> And there are still a few remaining to be sorted out. 20180218 08:12:31<+wesnoth-discord-> two, specifically. Northern Rebirth and Under the Burning Suns 20180218 08:12:35<+wesnoth-discord-> the latter is ongoing 20180218 08:12:39<+wesnoth-discord-> the former will come after 20180218 08:12:56<+wesnoth-discord-> Northern Rebirth's are beyond outdated at this point 20180218 08:13:00<+wesnoth-discord-> Considering how much time we've all spent developing this game since it was first started by Dave in 2003, I find it quite a bit disrespectful when someone comes and decides that they have the authority to decide for us how things should or shouldn't be done. 20180218 08:13:28<+wesnoth-discord-> Especially after I just take my time to try to explain to them how it would feel to be on the other side of the discussion. 20180218 08:14:06<+wesnoth-discord-> Hopefully you understand now why this pisses people off and they start throwing sarcasm at you? 20180218 08:14:17<+wesnoth-discord-> My personal experience with TNW commissions has been 3 weeks for the first and then 1month wait, 1 month work for the second 20180218 08:14:24<+wesnoth-discord-> honestly it's more just, this discussion happens over and over and over 20180218 08:15:01<+wesnoth-discord-> Art consistency itself still doesn't seem like that good areason alone, ok, sure, it will be a very good reason if everything will be changed and improved. But it is ok, that is, well much better than no reason. But Like I said the sprite and res bothered me the most, sprite may be changed, but units stats still remain, and for me it is a good reason to not make the changes. If the unit is going to be remade then sure I guess it 20180218 08:15:02<+wesnoth-discord-> would be ok. 20180218 08:15:39<+wesnoth-discord-> Unit stats will change at some point when someone actually remembers to bring it up through the proper channels. 20180218 08:15:41<+wesnoth-discord-> I'd be down for redoing unit stats, some people are less up to it because it changes gameplay, but I don't think it's that important for a single unit in a campaign 20180218 08:15:59<+wesnoth-discord-> And attaching conditionality to everything just shows that you conveniently decided to ignore everything I said about time. 20180218 08:16:16<+wesnoth-discord-> lol who is arguing with who 20180218 08:16:29<+wesnoth-discord-> went on here just now 20180218 08:16:30<+wesnoth-discord-> and I see drama 20180218 08:16:50<+wesnoth-discord-> I think all of us said everything that needed to be said on the matter. 20180218 08:16:57<+wesnoth-discord-> So, time to move on. 20180218 08:17:03<+wesnoth-discord-> If the unit stats would be the same as the battle princess line from PYRA then, well, that lisar was even stronger than the elusivefoot lisar 20180218 08:17:04<+wesnoth-discord-> I redrew over half the maps in Northern Rebirth for 1.13 to improve their design and make them less of a troop smorgasbord. I dare someone to tell me I should have left them alone because "that's not a good enough reason". 20180218 08:17:41<+wesnoth-discord-> Wait you did? Oh thank the lord, you are a hero 20180218 08:17:51<+wesnoth-discord-> I got as far as scenario 9 20180218 08:17:54<+wesnoth-discord-> IIRC. 20180218 08:18:10<+wesnoth-discord-> I need to play that now, that was something that seriously bothered me about the whole campaign, how it took ages to get things done 20180218 08:18:25<+wesnoth-discord-> First scenario was okay but the second, augh 20180218 08:18:33<+wesnoth-discord-> NR is meh. 20180218 08:18:34<+wesnoth-discord-> NR has always been an exercise in excess 20180218 08:18:44<+wesnoth-discord-> @EoZ If you have good ideas, please contribute πŸ˜ƒ Most video games people play they don’t get to be a part of the game.' 20180218 08:19:09<+wesnoth-discord-> (it's why I also never finished Hammer, I spent hundreds and hundreds of turns on the last scenario and found out I wasn't even a third of the way done) 20180218 08:19:17<+wesnoth-discord-> indeed πŸ˜› 20180218 08:19:22<+wesnoth-discord-> Of course, it involves working with others, but everyone helps each other out. 20180218 08:19:23<+wesnoth-discord-> THoT is... special. 20180218 08:19:35<+wesnoth-discord-> for one, it has a special acronym 20180218 08:19:37<+wesnoth-discord-> dohohoho 20180218 08:19:39<+wesnoth-discord-> indeed 20180218 08:19:43<+wesnoth-discord-> Oh ffs. 20180218 08:19:47<+wesnoth-discord-> I only just realized. 20180218 08:19:51<+wesnoth-discord-> wahahaha 20180218 08:20:04<+wesnoth-discord-> (for Reasons I've seen that word a lot lately, so only now did I notice either~) 20180218 08:20:04<+wesnoth-discord-> (I also only just realized) 20180218 08:20:08<+wesnoth-discord-> i had a big problem with the campaign that starts with you having nothing but peasants 20180218 08:20:19<+wesnoth-discord-> that's Northern Rebirth, yeah 20180218 08:20:21<+wesnoth-discord-> it was a borefest later on 20180218 08:20:31<+wesnoth-discord-> I hadn't thot about that 20180218 08:20:33< aeth> I rarely finished long campaigns. 20180218 08:20:45<+wesnoth-discord-> hides 20180218 08:20:48< aeth> Actually, I rarely finish long campaigns in any games, even where the campaign is just one scenario. 20180218 08:20:55<+wesnoth-discord-> i actually have a screenshot of pretty much the entire map being filled with units 20180218 08:21:01<+wesnoth-discord-> Rise of Wesnoth is the only long campaign I finished. 20180218 08:21:03<+wesnoth-discord-> That one is good! 20180218 08:21:09<+wesnoth-discord-> is that the one 20180218 08:21:13<+wesnoth-discord-> NR ugh. I got all the way to the last scenario 20180218 08:21:17<+wesnoth-discord-> And just gave up 20180218 08:21:22<+wesnoth-discord-> with the outlaw princess 20180218 08:21:23<+wesnoth-discord-> Too much micro 20180218 08:21:39<+wesnoth-discord-> A number of campaigns have that unit, but she's a prominent character in that one yes 20180218 08:21:43<+wesnoth-discord-> @gohomoth yes 20180218 08:21:52<+wesnoth-discord-> that one was great 20180218 08:22:01<+wesnoth-discord-> I didn't read your post at the time but like I said before it is just an opinion, I am not telling you to change the portraits back and I even agreed that it is acceptable if the portraits were changed for no reason. "deciding for somebody how things should be done" is not what I am doing i think you were a bit exaggerating 20180218 08:22:04<+wesnoth-discord-> Honestly, a thing I really liked were the handful of characters in Rise of Wesnoth that were optional recruits, like that one dwarf early on 20180218 08:22:15<+wesnoth-discord-> I wish more scenarios experimented with that, and gave them dialogue here and there 20180218 08:22:30<+wesnoth-discord-> i liked the feel of it 20180218 08:22:43<+wesnoth-discord-> Yeah, it was just solidly built all around, no super frustrating maps 20180218 08:22:47<+wesnoth-discord-> plus the story of the first men on wesnoth 20180218 08:22:53<+wesnoth-discord-> I think it had a few cave maps I disliked 20180218 08:22:59<+wesnoth-discord-> But they were short and infrequent 20180218 08:23:19<+wesnoth-discord-> a lot of the campaigns could use improvement 20180218 08:23:21<+wesnoth-discord-> i honestly dislike all cave maps unless i'm playing dwarves 20180218 08:23:25<+wesnoth-discord-> Honestly one campaign I kind of want to make is one before that, outlining the beginning of the elf/dwarf rivalry 20180218 08:23:31<+wesnoth-discord-> TRoW is actually just about perfect for me. 20180218 08:23:39<+wesnoth-discord-> It's basically the only campaign that has aged well. 20180218 08:23:46<+wesnoth-discord-> I don't mind cave maps but it always seems like they are the longest and hardest for in wesnoth campaigns 20180218 08:23:50<+wesnoth-discord-> cuz they are like alwaysa the last scenario 20180218 08:24:02<+wesnoth-discord-> I still have a very soft spot for TSG 20180218 08:24:04<+wesnoth-discord-> so they are challenging and strenuous for me, like in that dwarf campaign 20180218 08:24:11<+wesnoth-discord-> i liked the first one, the outlaw faction one and rise of wesnoth 20180218 08:24:16<+wesnoth-discord-> if I were the sole distributor of our funds I would spend half of them commissioning shadowm to use her considerable mapmaking skills to redraw them all. 20180218 08:24:16<+wesnoth-discord-> πŸ˜› 20180218 08:24:21<+wesnoth-discord-> TSG is an exercise in game design sadism. 20180218 08:24:36<+wesnoth-discord-> (but sadly I am not) 20180218 08:24:41<+wesnoth-discord-> TSG is the south guard, right? 20180218 08:24:43<+wesnoth-discord-> Yes 20180218 08:24:45<+wesnoth-discord-> $20 a map. 20180218 08:24:48<+wesnoth-discord-> Deal. 20180218 08:24:50<+wesnoth-discord-> I actually have a new map for Descent into Darkness scenario 1 ready to go in.. 20180218 08:25:05<+wesnoth-discord-> @Yumi I'm being robbed 20180218 08:25:09<+wesnoth-discord-> But no I don't feel like it's my place to redraw mainline maps. 20180218 08:25:17<+wesnoth-discord-> descent , that one was pretty good once you got past having terrible units 20180218 08:25:25<+wesnoth-discord-> My favorite campaign is probably Descent into Darkness or Liberty 20180218 08:25:28<+wesnoth-discord-> I'd totally be down for redoing mainline maps 20180218 08:25:34<+wesnoth-discord-> Descent into Darkness was rad too 20180218 08:25:37<+wesnoth-discord-> What’s the map trope? If there even is one? Forest, Desert, Jungle, Heaven or Hell 20180218 08:25:47<+wesnoth-discord-> In that order 20180218 08:25:48<+wesnoth-discord-> Liberty had a really good writer 20180218 08:25:54<+wesnoth-discord-> like someone that is really really good at English 20180218 08:26:04<+wesnoth-discord-> @shadowm what did you dislike about TSG? 20180218 08:26:06<+wesnoth-discord-> You know that in my campaign's case at least I designed the scenarios around the maps. 20180218 08:26:07<+wesnoth-discord-> libetry is amazing, but that stealth mission was nasty 20180218 08:26:12<+wesnoth-discord-> Hmm true 20180218 08:26:14<+wesnoth-discord-> The gameplay, the narrative, everything. 20180218 08:26:17<+wesnoth-discord-> Around the maps. 20180218 08:26:18<+wesnoth-discord-> Just enough straightforwardness to be engaging, just enough open-ness at the end to still feel achieving 20180218 08:26:23<+wesnoth-discord-> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/231976805987385345/414699152673603584/newmapdids1.JPG 20180218 08:26:27<+wesnoth-discord-> The stealth mission was fun though 20180218 08:26:34<+wesnoth-discord-> it was 20180218 08:26:35<+wesnoth-discord-> it was fun to use LoS to dodge the shock troopers 20180218 08:26:37<+wesnoth-discord-> The bet games are about maps, right aeth? πŸ˜‰ 20180218 08:26:37<+wesnoth-discord-> Liberty felt just a tiny bit too linear and I questioned a few choices 20180218 08:26:44<+wesnoth-discord-> Hmm true 20180218 08:26:45<+wesnoth-discord-> @pydsigner That stupid branching choice that comes out of the blue and doesn't warn you of the consequences. 20180218 08:26:48<+wesnoth-discord-> yeah kind of linear 20180218 08:26:55<+wesnoth-discord-> *best 20180218 08:26:56<+wesnoth-discord-> @shadowm ok yeah that sucked 20180218 08:26:58<+wesnoth-discord-> Like 'why introduce this very weird sorta-mage unit, at the very end of the campaign, for a scenario they aren't even that useful in' 20180218 08:27:16<+wesnoth-discord-> i liked the mission in libetry with te cursed army, that one was really fun for me 20180218 08:27:25<+wesnoth-discord-> Yeah yeah, I loved that one a bunch 20180218 08:27:26<+wesnoth-discord-> since i couldn't just rush in guns blazing 20180218 08:27:29<+wesnoth-discord-> Really cool idea there 20180218 08:27:50<+wesnoth-discord-> i have a soft spot for these kind of, magic maps 20180218 08:28:14<+wesnoth-discord-> where it's not just, kill enemy, go to the next level 20180218 08:28:25<+wesnoth-discord-> @gohomoth you should play After the Storm 20180218 08:28:41<+wesnoth-discord-> it's on the 1.12 addons server 20180218 08:28:56<+wesnoth-discord-> ok 20180218 08:29:00<+wesnoth-discord-> I mean... 20180218 08:29:05<+wesnoth-discord-> absolute best campaign ever made 20180218 08:29:08<+wesnoth-discord-> i will definetly give it a try 20180218 08:29:27<+wesnoth-discord-> i have like alove hate relationship with under the burning sands 20180218 08:29:40<+wesnoth-discord-> Not to be a party-pooper here but you'll find that 75% of my campaigns' play time consists of "kill everyone, proceed to next scenario". 20180218 08:29:52<+wesnoth-discord-> i like the story a lot, but the difficulty is borderline sadistic 20180218 08:29:55<+wesnoth-discord-> it's the other 25% that makes up πŸ˜› 20180218 08:30:05<+wesnoth-discord-> i know, i've beaten most of the campaigns 20180218 08:30:19<+wesnoth-discord-> well, most official ones 20180218 08:30:23<+wesnoth-discord-> I play wesnoth more for multiplayer and such than for the campaigns 20180218 08:30:34<+wesnoth-discord-> @gohomoth Invasion from the Unknown is the prequel to After the Storm. Just as good. 20180218 08:30:35<+wesnoth-discord-> since im big on chess, I like concreteness and competition 20180218 08:30:47<+wesnoth-discord-> I can still remember playing IftU for the first time... 20180218 08:31:07<+wesnoth-discord-> ya know how sometimes you play a game and it just 20180218 08:31:10<+wesnoth-discord-> feels good? 20180218 08:31:13<+wesnoth-discord-> yeah 20180218 08:31:15<+wesnoth-discord-> like you feel good playing that game 20180218 08:31:32<+wesnoth-discord-> idk with me it was the thing: when i came home from school back in like 2008-9 i would sit on my computer and the first thing i'd do is play wesnoth or heroes 3 20180218 08:31:36<+wesnoth-discord-> change goal to "reach the end of the map" and make enemies spawn, problem solved 20180218 08:31:43<+wesnoth-discord-> and that's why i still like campaigns more 20180218 08:31:47<+wesnoth-discord-> not necessarily always better 20180218 08:32:56<+wesnoth-discord-> i mean, when i say i dislike the usual kill enemy, that's it i mean, when you have a big open map, mostly flat with kinda forests and hills around for coverage, and there's 3-4 enemy leaders 20180218 08:33:04-!- hrubymar10 [~textual@ip-86-49-9-122.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #wesnoth 20180218 08:33:43<+wesnoth-discord-> I don't really like too big maps in campaigns 20180218 08:33:57<+wesnoth-discord-> i liked the one in the Kalenz campaign where you have to stick to the right, i liked under the burning sand's objectice switching, i liked other maps that have something to them 20180218 08:34:03<+wesnoth-discord-> especially when you have a lot of opponents with a lot of gold 20180218 08:34:09<+wesnoth-discord-> IftU and AtS have all that 20180218 08:34:10<+wesnoth-discord-> and not just a lot of enemies 20180218 08:34:14<+wesnoth-discord-> great 20180218 08:35:07-!- hrubymar10 [~textual@ip-86-49-9-122.net.upcbroadband.cz] has left #wesnoth [] 20180218 08:35:09<+wesnoth-discord-> I don't like maps in campaigns that take 64 turns 20180218 08:35:18<+wesnoth-discord-> like the last cave map in Northern Rebirth or something like that 20180218 08:35:36<+wesnoth-discord-> Vultraz was talking about NR, in nr many maps were relatively small, opponents had a lot of gold but that is better than a lot of gold on a big map, i think on not hardcore nightmare diff many of the maps in NR being just a slugfest with 2 armies pitched against each other in relatively closed space, could be quite enjoyable because they are straightforward and very simple 20180218 08:35:37<+wesnoth-discord-> like everything in norther rebirth cough cough 20180218 08:35:44<+wesnoth-discord-> eh nah 20180218 08:35:46<+wesnoth-discord-> the last scenario 20180218 08:35:49<+wesnoth-discord-> is like a superscenario 20180218 08:35:52<+wesnoth-discord-> kind of drained my energy out 20180218 08:35:59<+wesnoth-discord-> the one where you control 4 sides? 20180218 08:36:02<+wesnoth-discord-> yeah 20180218 08:36:02<+wesnoth-discord-> i never got to rdoing that one 😦 20180218 08:36:04<+wesnoth-discord-> redoing 20180218 08:36:09<+wesnoth-discord-> that one was ok 20180218 08:36:17<+wesnoth-discord-> Should I tell you about that time I played NR on a computer with only 256 MB of RAM and a 1.3 MHz Celeron? 20180218 08:36:27<+wesnoth-discord-> mein gott 20180218 08:36:37<+wesnoth-discord-> you kinda felt amazing finnaly destroying that orc dude 20180218 08:36:38<+wesnoth-discord-> Every AI turn on the last scenario took 20-30 minutes. 20180218 08:36:41<+wesnoth-discord-> rip 20180218 08:36:43<+wesnoth-discord-> lol 20180218 08:36:44<+wesnoth-discord-> Not hyperbole. 20180218 08:36:47<+wesnoth-discord-> oh no not that one gohomoth 20180218 08:36:52<+wesnoth-discord-> (Combined AI turn, not per side.) 20180218 08:36:53<+wesnoth-discord-> I dont remember which campaign it was but 20180218 08:36:58<+wesnoth-discord-> or what it was called I mean 20180218 08:37:01<+wesnoth-discord-> but it was for dwarves 20180218 08:37:05<+wesnoth-discord-> and the last scenario was 20180218 08:37:08<+wesnoth-discord-> a big cave superscenario 20180218 08:37:28<+wesnoth-discord-> (In fairness, that was in version 1.1.something and the AI received some extensive optimizations in 1.7.x many years later.) 20180218 08:37:29<+wesnoth-discord-> THoT 20180218 08:37:35<+wesnoth-discord-> Thank you, it was THoT Yes 20180218 08:37:39<+wesnoth-discord-> on my first pc i had wesnoth on, i was playing 6 man survival and it took 40 minutes for the AI 20180218 08:37:40<+wesnoth-discord-> The Hammer of Thursagen 20180218 08:37:47<+wesnoth-discord-> i don't know the specs 20180218 08:37:47<+wesnoth-discord-> I goht that confused with NR 20180218 08:37:56<+wesnoth-discord-> I can tell you why the last scenario in THoT feels out of place design-wise. 20180218 08:38:03<+wesnoth-discord-> Tell me :D 20180218 08:38:09<+wesnoth-discord-> because it was added later 20180218 08:38:10<+wesnoth-discord-> The author deliberately had NR's author make it for him. 20180218 08:38:16<+wesnoth-discord-> Lol really? 20180218 08:38:30<+wesnoth-discord-> That's the one scenario in the whole campaign made by NR's author and it shows. 20180218 08:38:35<+wesnoth-discord-> it certainly feels that way 20180218 08:39:02<+wesnoth-discord-> btw crimson, if a map is simple to play for me, that usually means that it is not too big in general then turn number really doesnt matter, in one scenario in story of the wose one scenario was a very simple cave dungeon crawl, though it maybe was a bit too simple and too long it could take really dozens of turns and every turn you only switch a unit and attack with like 3 units or occasionally like 5 20180218 08:39:36<+wesnoth-discord-> oh I see 20180218 08:39:40<+wesnoth-discord-> hehe Elder of Zion :3 20180218 08:39:44<+wesnoth-discord-> The author of the campaign itself didn't have a lot of experience designing scenarios so that's also why you'll find that the difficulty curve is mostly a flat line with a sudden spike at a specific point, and it's also the most speedrunnable campaign in mainline. 20180218 08:40:00<+wesnoth-discord-> Ah 20180218 08:40:09<+wesnoth-discord-> despite him being the guy who wrote a "guide" on campaign design how-to... 20180218 08:40:14<+wesnoth-discord-> imagine a cross between NR and under the burning suns 20180218 08:40:24<+wesnoth-discord-> I see 20180218 08:40:33<+wesnoth-discord-> lol 20180218 08:40:47<+wesnoth-discord-> Its pretty funny that I got THoT confused with NR 20180218 08:40:54<+wesnoth-discord-> because author of NR did last scenario in THoT xD 20180218 08:41:01<+wesnoth-discord-> i have finished THoT 20180218 08:41:04<+wesnoth-discord-> huge amounts of units, and switching ovjectives with kinda bad terrain for you 20180218 08:41:10<+wesnoth-discord-> ftr 20180218 08:41:11<+wesnoth-discord-> The author of THoT also redid the prose of NR entirely before coming up with THoT. 20180218 08:41:19<+wesnoth-discord-> That is hilarious LOL 20180218 08:41:21<+wesnoth-discord-> hahaha 20180218 08:41:29<+wesnoth-discord-> NR's prose before that was a bit... interesting. 20180218 08:41:32<+wesnoth-discord-> the last scenario was just a grind... though some people didnt really know how to finish that despite unlimited turns i believe 20180218 08:41:43<+wesnoth-discord-> What was the prose before that? 20180218 08:41:55<+wesnoth-discord-> IIRC jokey? 20180218 08:41:57<+wesnoth-discord-> and campy? 20180218 08:42:17<+wesnoth-discord-> I don't have the disk drive where I had an old version with me anymore sadly. 20180218 08:42:37<+wesnoth-discord-> i just downloaded 1.13 and for a second i got scared; "Where's HTTT" and then i found it 20180218 08:42:43<+wesnoth-discord-> lmao xD 20180218 08:42:44<+wesnoth-discord-> lol 20180218 08:42:50<+wesnoth-discord-> we moved it down 20180218 08:42:53<+wesnoth-discord-> yeah 20180218 08:42:54<+wesnoth-discord-> how come? 20180218 08:42:58<+wesnoth-discord-> because its hardeer? 20180218 08:43:01<+wesnoth-discord-> yes 20180218 08:43:03<+wesnoth-discord-> probably because of difficulty 20180218 08:43:05<+wesnoth-discord-> ah that makse sense 20180218 08:43:05<+wesnoth-discord-> yep 20180218 08:43:09<+wesnoth-discord-> Funny story 20180218 08:43:14<+wesnoth-discord-> HTTT is the ONLY campaign that I didnt finsih 20180218 08:43:17<+wesnoth-discord-> *finish 20180218 08:43:23<+wesnoth-discord-> because it feels the hardest to me 20180218 08:43:25<+wesnoth-discord-> like scenario 23 20180218 08:43:30<+wesnoth-discord-> It needs new maps 20180218 08:43:40<+wesnoth-discord-> You mean a reform? 20180218 08:43:45<+wesnoth-discord-> I could agree 20180218 08:43:51<+wesnoth-discord-> i'll get to it eventully 20180218 08:43:58<+wesnoth-discord-> Thank you master ;] 20180218 08:43:58<+wesnoth-discord-> i mean, when people first play wesnoth, they usually start with the first campaign, and HttT is pretty long and difficult for first timers 20180218 08:43:59<+wesnoth-discord-> That would be sweet 20180218 08:44:02<+wesnoth-discord-> Master Vultraz 20180218 08:44:05<+wesnoth-discord-> so that change is probably good 20180218 08:44:09<+wesnoth-discord-> Yeah exactly 20180218 08:44:11<+wesnoth-discord-> did you order campaigns by diff? 20180218 08:44:21<+wesnoth-discord-> I thought they already were kind of 20180218 08:44:27<+wesnoth-discord-> but I guess it was sporadic 20180218 08:44:33<+wesnoth-discord-> considering taht there is quite some of them, well that seems a bit hard xD 20180218 08:44:37<+wesnoth-discord-> The horseman plains scenario in HttT is usually the point where I quit out of plain boredom. 20180218 08:44:41<+wesnoth-discord-> ^^ 20180218 08:44:42<+wesnoth-discord-> I agree 20180218 08:44:43<+wesnoth-discord-> It's not difficult, just tedious. 20180218 08:44:50<+wesnoth-discord-> @gohomoth I first played the tutorial. At the end the tutorial recommended playing TSG next, so I did that. 20180218 08:44:57<+wesnoth-discord-> That was hard for me 20180218 08:45:05<+wesnoth-discord-> NEW UNDEAD CAMPAIGN, thank you devs 20180218 08:45:14<+wesnoth-discord-> what about a new drake campaign 20180218 08:45:15<+wesnoth-discord-> that I haven't played yet 20180218 08:45:21<+wesnoth-discord-> why is my screen flashing.. 20180218 08:45:22<+wesnoth-discord-> i played HTTT first, and then i played the tutorial 20180218 08:45:26<+wesnoth-discord-> it was kind of weird 20180218 08:45:38<+wesnoth-discord-> @Meta Mirage no one's made one 20180218 08:45:39<+wesnoth-discord-> Basically, by that point you have enough veterans and enough understanding of ZoC-pinning (hopefully) to be able to deal with the horsemen. But there's just too much map to cover. 20180218 08:45:40<+wesnoth-discord-> I bet the tutorail waas a breeze 20180218 08:45:41<+wesnoth-discord-> "Why is konrad so weak now" 20180218 08:45:43<+wesnoth-discord-> I know Vultraz 20180218 08:45:47<+wesnoth-discord-> ah lol 20180218 08:45:59<+wesnoth-discord-> And also the scenario's premise is not very engaging. 20180218 08:46:25<+wesnoth-discord-> I still don't know what ZoC-pinning is 20180218 08:46:32<+wesnoth-discord-> I just play with math and intuition 20180218 08:46:38<+wesnoth-discord-> ok i still gotta beat the mermen campaign, the orcs and under the burning sun 20180218 08:46:42<+wesnoth-discord-> I know about how you can limit squares for your enemy units 20180218 08:46:44<+wesnoth-discord-> probably something like luck management 20180218 08:46:52<+wesnoth-discord-> (xD) 20180218 08:47:05<+wesnoth-discord-> ZoC pinning is making the enemy not move much by putting two units at the opposite ends of an unit 20180218 08:47:16<+wesnoth-discord-> at least i think that is what i think it is 20180218 08:47:21<+wesnoth-discord-> oh I know about that yeah 20180218 08:47:26<+wesnoth-discord-> And you can also use your own units' ZoC to prevent enemies from reaching your support or healer units (e.g. sorceresses, shydes, mages). 20180218 08:47:29<+wesnoth-discord-> oh yes I have a question about that 20180218 08:47:36<+wesnoth-discord-> 2 units opposite end of an enemy unit 20180218 08:47:43<+wesnoth-discord-> if enemy unit has skirmisher 20180218 08:47:44<+wesnoth-discord-> can they escape? 20180218 08:47:47<+wesnoth-discord-> yes 20180218 08:47:48<+wesnoth-discord-> Yes. 20180218 08:47:50<+wesnoth-discord-> oh okay 20180218 08:48:09<+wesnoth-discord-> a minor factor to my hate towards orc assassins 20180218 08:48:26<+wesnoth-discord-> For the scenario in question that's not a problem thankfully, you just have to deal with their high mobility and the humongous map. 20180218 08:48:42<+wesnoth-discord-> the biggest one is "HIT THEM DAMMIT, SLIPPERY BASTARDS", and poison comes second 20180218 08:49:27<+wesnoth-discord-> I like dancing with my enemies 20180218 08:49:29<+wesnoth-discord-> with loyalists 20180218 08:49:37<+wesnoth-discord-> In chess, I like to squeeze opponents without having to lose ground 20180218 08:51:33<+wesnoth-discord-> btw does anybody remember rise of wesnoth, the scenario where Igor the bat first appears? it is a huge battle between orcs, you and your human ally 20180218 08:51:49<+wesnoth-discord-> Igor the bat? 20180218 08:51:51<+wesnoth-discord-> Igor? 20180218 08:51:53<+wesnoth-discord-> i don't remember him 20180218 08:51:54<+wesnoth-discord-> igor? 20180218 08:51:59<+wesnoth-discord-> when i played rise of wesnoth like half a year or more ago i stopped there, it was boring one 20180218 08:52:06<+wesnoth-discord-> The familiar isn't named 20180218 08:52:07<+wesnoth-discord-> there's an igor in IFtU.. 20180218 08:52:09<+wesnoth-discord-> yes the bat was called Igor i thinkl 20180218 08:52:18<+wesnoth-discord-> Yeah no, the bat familiar has never had a name. 20180218 08:52:29<+wesnoth-discord-> Igor hmm 20180218 08:53:21<+wesnoth-discord-> im going to check it 20180218 09:06:38<+wesnoth-discord-> yeah you are right 20180218 09:47:15<+wesnoth-discord-> ooh the new wesnoth looks good 20180218 09:55:28-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth 20180218 10:14:28<+wesnoth-discord-> For the tutorial 20180218 10:14:32<+wesnoth-discord-> I noticed that on the second part 20180218 10:14:41<+wesnoth-discord-> they changed the "An orc? A troll?" part to "A flock of scarecrows?" 20180218 10:17:18<+wesnoth-discord-> oh 20180218 10:41:41<+wesnoth-discord-> I was looking at Wesnoth credits and I saw a guy under Japanese translation named 'BlueStar' 20180218 10:41:46<+wesnoth-discord-> Is that a reference to Blue Star Donuts?? 20180218 10:41:52<+wesnoth-discord-> lol! I love those donuts 20180218 10:42:32<+wesnoth-discord-> Unless he/she is still active, you're unlikely to get an answer. 20180218 10:43:01<+wesnoth-discord-> http://www.bluestardonuts.com/ 20180218 10:43:07<+wesnoth-discord-> Haha 20180218 10:47:23<+wesnoth-discord-> How come Khalifate was changed to Dunefolk? 20180218 10:48:13<+wesnoth-discord-> https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=47643 20180218 10:48:24<+wesnoth-discord-> "To separate the faction identity from direct Arab inspiration in favor for a more holistically Wesnoth-feel. While the Wesnoth world building is both real-world-inspired and fantasy-inspired, we must avoid direct real world references." 20180218 10:49:10<+wesnoth-discord-> Oh lol 20180218 10:49:27<+wesnoth-discord-> I like how many votes "Southerners" got 20180218 11:10:13<+wesnoth-discord-> Is it just me or... does it seem like units that have slowness or poisoning 20180218 11:10:17<+wesnoth-discord-> have a higher chance of hitting than normal? 20180218 11:10:24<+wesnoth-discord-> Even like my fencers get poisoned by ghouls all the time 20180218 11:11:00-!- Guest11776 [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has joined #wesnoth 20180218 11:40:36<+wesnoth-discord-> Its just you 20180218 11:46:01<+wesnoth-discord-> ah 20180218 11:46:48<+wesnoth-discord-> Thank you fellow polish friend 20180218 13:08:39-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180218 13:08:48-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20180218 13:41:40-!- Guest11776 is now known as Haudegen 20180218 14:00:26-!- Ivanovic [~ivanovic@wesnoth/developer/ivanovic] has quit [Quit: Caught sigterm, terminating...] 20180218 14:00:47-!- Ivanovic [~ivanovic@p579FBA67.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth 20180218 14:00:48-!- Ivanovic [~ivanovic@p579FBA67.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Changing host] 20180218 14:00:48-!- Ivanovic [~ivanovic@wesnoth/developer/ivanovic] has joined #wesnoth 20180218 14:01:33-!- Ivanovic [~ivanovic@wesnoth/developer/ivanovic] has quit [Client Quit] 20180218 14:02:10-!- Ivanovic [~ivanovic@p579FBA67.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth 20180218 14:02:11-!- Ivanovic [~ivanovic@p579FBA67.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Changing host] 20180218 14:02:11-!- Ivanovic [~ivanovic@wesnoth/developer/ivanovic] has joined #wesnoth 20180218 14:14:59-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180218 14:15:08-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20180218 14:20:23-!- claymore [~claymore@unaffiliated/claymore] has joined #wesnoth 20180218 14:24:06<+wesnoth-discord-> Well.. time to figure out how to make sure @Vultraz doesn't ping my phone every time Wesnoth has a minor release... 20180218 14:40:44-!- octalot [~steve@77.119.128.116.wireless.dyn.drei.com] has joined #wesnoth 20180218 14:47:29<+wesnoth-discord-> releases don't happen very often like that, don't worry 20180218 14:48:11<+wesnoth-discord-> this was basically a last stop-gap version of beta before they make sure it's ready to be 1.14, the version they plan on releasing to steam 20180218 14:48:52<+wesnoth-discord-> and considering after that they have a freeze on new features, it's only going to be bugfixing after that 20180218 14:49:31<+wesnoth-discord-> also, re: poison: since poison only has to hit once to do its damage, you notice it more even when they just strike once 20180218 14:49:51<+wesnoth-discord-> a fencer's going to get 70% evasion on favorable terrain, yes 20180218 14:50:04<+wesnoth-discord-> According to the 1.13.11 release announcement, "translators will have the next two months to work", which would mean that translation updates would be allowed after RC1, as well. 20180218 14:50:07<+wesnoth-discord-> but since a ghoul has 3 hits, it actually amounts to about a 66% chance of that fencer getting poisoned 20180218 14:50:16<+wesnoth-discord-> Translators will continue working, yes 20180218 14:50:50<+wesnoth-discord-> But they're going to stop adding in new functions every release since those introduce new bugs, and for a time they will mostly just do bugfixing 20180218 15:10:57-!- iwaim___ [~iwaim@rasteenie.alib.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20180218 15:30:53-!- iwaim___ [~iwaim@rasteenie.alib.jp] has joined #wesnoth 20180218 15:33:49-!- octalot [~steve@77.119.128.116.wireless.dyn.drei.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20180218 15:34:38-!- vultraz [uid24821@wesnoth/developer/vultraz] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 20180218 15:37:37<+wesnoth-discord-> @Grickit you can suppress at everyone and at here on each server's notification settings. 20180218 15:38:23-!- celmin|sleep is now known as celticminstrel 20180218 15:38:34< celticminstrel> Is Wesnoth in feature freeze then, or just string freeze? 20180218 15:38:57<+wesnoth-discord-> Also RIP translators. Back in my days we had considerably longer. 20180218 15:43:59-!- iwaim___ [~iwaim@rasteenie.alib.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20180218 15:44:40-!- 5EXAAPICA [~iwaim@2001:2c0:40e:2002:401a:fba6:bb26:b359] has joined #wesnoth 20180218 15:47:21<+wesnoth-discord-> It should be in both celticminstrel 20180218 15:48:02<+wesnoth-discord-> regarding to forum thread: http://r.wesnoth.org/t47804 20180218 15:48:16<+wesnoth-discord-> well... you might want to clarify that with Vultraz, honestly 20180218 15:48:33<+wesnoth-discord-> from #development over here: 'the feature freeze is actually a "soft" one. But I don't classify including additional content as a feature.' 20180218 15:49:16<+wesnoth-discord-> ^regarding including Ravana's XP mod in mainline 20180218 15:50:09<+wesnoth-discord-> For the record, in general bug fixes have a much higher risk of regressions than new features. 20180218 15:50:49<+wesnoth-discord-> yeah, the feature freeze is more 'hey let's not add new core tools all the time that pose the risk of breaking other things' 20180218 15:51:08<+wesnoth-discord-> the fundamental game is going to stay the same for a while during 1.14, but new content can surely be added 20180218 15:51:24<+wesnoth-discord-> maybe i should put my butt in gear on that drake campaign 20180218 15:52:46<+wesnoth-discord-> If that's the interpretation of it, then I'm not going to argue about it. But the forum announcement says: "this and future 1.13.x and 1.14.x versions will only include bug fixes and translation updates." 20180218 15:52:49<+wesnoth-discord-> so... 20180218 15:53:00<+wesnoth-discord-> and/or that 'saurians, nagas, mermen, and trolls too' 20180218 15:53:30<+wesnoth-discord-> campaigns are always a case of 'make one that plays nice, and we'll talk about putting it in, if you're willing to maintain it' 20180218 15:54:47<+wesnoth-discord-> most people make campaigns that are sorta alternate universe-ey or otherwise not all that connected, or they put in a ton of custom units 20180218 15:55:01<+wesnoth-discord-> ...also wait, the khalifate was renamed??? i thought we were sticking with that 20180218 15:55:16<+wesnoth-discord-> πŸ˜’ 20180218 15:56:19<+wesnoth-discord-> That whole renaming thing started last November. 20180218 15:56:34<+wesnoth-discord-> huh, what motivated it more than previous times 20180218 15:57:14<+wesnoth-discord-> People were generally more civil about it. 20180218 15:57:23<+wesnoth-discord-> hmm 20180218 15:58:09<+wesnoth-discord-> It's a lot easier to discuss changes when people don't immediately jump on the torches and pitchforks bandwagon. 20180218 15:58:19<+wesnoth-discord-> perhaps, yeah. 20180218 15:59:18<+wesnoth-discord-> There's also a thread going on getting them a race description: https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=47721 Though has made less progress than I had initially hoped. 20180218 15:59:40<+wesnoth-discord-> i think we could possibly get better names, personally though. like, i'd use encompassing steppe-horde type classifications for the horse archers. not sure about all of them being prefaced with 'dune' either, but then that's me 20180218 16:01:11<+wesnoth-discord-> like instead of 'windrider' I'd go with, say, Tumen myself 20180218 16:02:09<+wesnoth-discord-> That would have some of the same problems as the previous names though. ie: translations and descriptiveness 20180218 16:03:42<+wesnoth-discord-> i'll have a think about names that feel a little nicer to me. I get that point, yeah, the previous names had issues too, but I do like evocativeness to emphasize the feel of a unit. i'll look into familiar terms for military units in that sphere of culture. Cataphract is good, though, keep that, it's exactly what it is 20180218 16:04:45<+wesnoth-discord-> but, for example, 'sunderer' is awkward to me 20180218 16:06:40<+wesnoth-discord-> i'm someone who studies a lot of history, so like, i'm of the opinion that if we can use 'hoplite' something like 'tumen' should also be acceptable, both were pretty equally historically prominent 20180218 16:06:48<+wesnoth-discord-> the tumens were Genghis Khan's premier generals after all 20180218 16:07:05<+wesnoth-discord-> but there are alternatives yeah 20180218 16:07:30<+wesnoth-discord-> I'm not super familiar with the faction, but I think a lot of the names were harder than that one. 20180218 16:07:34<+wesnoth-discord-> If you have ideas for better names, then of course feel free to propose them. Just keep in mind that the faction and all its units were just renamed, so renaming half the faction again is obviously not something I'd really want to do. 20180218 16:07:59<+wesnoth-discord-> that 'hoplite' thing is a good point- should there be an attempt to rename that for consistency? 20180218 16:08:01<+wesnoth-discord-> hahah, true, i do wish i'd been in on that conversation in advance but what can you do 20180218 16:08:43<+wesnoth-discord-> no, because the mermen are very very greek in design cues and if we only use generic english terms for infantry, we'll rapidly run out of unique names 20180218 16:09:07<+wesnoth-discord-> every level 3 should have a unique title, most level 2s should too but that's flexible, 1s can be more generic imo 20180218 16:09:25<+wesnoth-discord-> I definitely agree with the idea that a faction shouldn't feel like it was directly copied from the real world. It makes it feel less creative and takes me out of a lot of fantasy settings. 20180218 16:09:55<+wesnoth-discord-> IIRC, that (or maybe it was phalanx) was brought up, but the goal is to keep the faction with an Arab-like feel, even if it's no longer name dropping things from the real world. 20180218 16:09:57<+wesnoth-discord-> there's a fine line between inspiration and just directly copying stuff, yeah 20180218 16:10:29<+wesnoth-discord-> their horse archers are very very mongol/hunnic in feel though, and i think at least the level 3 should evoke that somehow 20180218 16:10:35<+wesnoth-discord-> And I do get that where you draw that line will vary from person to person. 20180218 16:11:06<+wesnoth-discord-> But straight up calling the faction the kaliphate? Over that line for me. 20180218 16:12:09<+wesnoth-discord-> i was fine with that but then i think that's just a good word for 'the kind of great kingdom that governed arabic lands' 20180218 16:12:15<+wesnoth-discord-> it reads to me the same as, say, 'shogunate' 20180218 16:12:36<+wesnoth-discord-> it is a bit of a politically charged thing atm tho, so i do get it 20180218 16:13:30<+wesnoth-discord-> just kind of a shame since that's a really useful term that immediately indicates what the deal is 20180218 16:13:33<+wesnoth-discord-> The politics don't factor in for me in this case, and I still approve of changing the faction's name. 20180218 16:14:05<+wesnoth-discord-> I'd probably just call everything a kingdom since that feels like a more generic term to me. 20180218 16:14:12<+wesnoth-discord-> but then, i suppose the other factions are named similarly, come to think of it 20180218 16:14:32<+wesnoth-discord-> the humans aren't 'the kingdom of wesnoth', they're entitled the loyalists 20180218 16:16:36<+wesnoth-discord-> this is a weird nitpicky issue i'm not totally sure how to articulate actually, ahaha 20180218 16:16:48<+wesnoth-discord-> but i think i get it actually, now, all the sudden 20180218 16:17:12<+wesnoth-discord-> Right, but what I'm saying is that it would feel weird to me to call things "khanate" and "shogunate" and so on instead of calling them all kingdoms and differentiating them in other ways. That would bring it closer to that feeling of "We wanted to create something different, but got lazy and opted to copy from the real world instead" feeling. 20180218 16:17:37<+wesnoth-discord-> essentially, i'd sort of say this is preferable, and references to a 'caliphate' be in a story featuring dunefolk but not in their like race description 20180218 16:17:41<+wesnoth-discord-> IIRC, the Loyalists and Rebels are more holdovers from way back when Wesnoth had a lot less content and lore behind it. So while they could probably do with a rename too(Rebels in particular), it's not something I'm going to go propose myself. 20180218 16:17:56<+wesnoth-discord-> yeah, i might have a think on that 20180218 16:19:21<+wesnoth-discord-> I'm fine with loyalists and rebels. I don't know the reason behind the names, but that's kind of a good thing. It makes me a little curious about the lore. 20180218 16:19:56<+wesnoth-discord-> Makes me what's going on in the story to align the different types of units in that way. 20180218 16:21:34<+wesnoth-discord-> it does tie it a bit too heavily to heir to the throne specifically, which, while i get that's sort of the center of the story, shouldn't define absolutely everything imo 20180218 16:21:35<+wesnoth-discord-> Yeah, renaming Loyalists and Rebels wouldn't be solving the same degree of a problem as Khalifate -> Dunefolk. 20180218 16:22:02<+wesnoth-discord-> It's a little touch that makes it feel like there's more going on than you're aware of, which is the opposite of seeing "khanate" and thinking, "Okay, so this is the Mongol proxy of the setting. I probably don't even need to read the rest to know what they're all about." 20180218 16:22:28<+wesnoth-discord-> But the game has grown since then, so the name doesn't really fit in too well in various places. 20180218 16:22:49<+wesnoth-discord-> defining the elves as rebels makes me think they're some kind of insurgency, and while they do have sort of a guerilla way of fighting, they're their own full-fledged kingdoms, all that makes them rebels is that they back a different claimant to the throne in that specific conflict 20180218 16:23:39<+wesnoth-discord-> Well, you may be right, seeing as I've done all the official campaigns and still don't know why they're named that way. I could have just forgotten, though, since that was quite a while back. 20180218 16:23:46<+wesnoth-discord-> i always thought of it as the default era happening during the time frame of HttT 20180218 16:24:44<+wesnoth-discord-> like, you could call the loyalists the 'ancient kingdom' or whatever, and have it be centered on UtBS 20180218 16:25:06<+wesnoth-discord-> but the way it is rn is at least fairly consistent 20180218 16:25:21<+wesnoth-discord-> i figured it was pretty much any time period between rise of wesnoth and the ambiguous end of that era 20180218 16:25:36<+wesnoth-discord-> all the groups are there, but alliances and conflicts change over time 20180218 16:26:37<+wesnoth-discord-> the knalgan alliance isn't even defined by that campaign IMO? they were called that for a while, but only with northern rebirth was the actual reasoning and history behind it justified 20180218 16:26:49<+wesnoth-discord-> true 20180218 16:26:55<+wesnoth-discord-> otherwise i don't recall dwarves teaming up with outlaws in any other campaign 20180218 16:27:16<+wesnoth-discord-> I particularly like how the dwarves have a full-blown alliance with what I can only guess is a vast crime network. 20180218 16:27:21<+wesnoth-discord-> Of humans. 20180218 16:27:56<+wesnoth-discord-> I think that's interesting, and I'd like to hear the in-universe story behind it. 20180218 16:28:02<+wesnoth-discord-> it's more like that they give asylum to free-ranging humans who don't want to deal with the law 20180218 16:28:22<+wesnoth-discord-> But it is called an alliance in the faction name. 20180218 16:28:36<+wesnoth-discord-> Is that just between different groups of dwarves? 20180218 16:28:55<+wesnoth-discord-> the dwarves don't like being anywhere except their caves, but the situation they're in merits some kind of on the ground support, so they contact with people on the run and allow them to hang out in lands they want to hold 20180218 16:29:21<+wesnoth-discord-> it's like an alliance between differing city-states of dwarves, and a broad-ranging cultural frontier folk 20180218 16:29:54<+wesnoth-discord-> they're criminals in the sense that they reject the laws of the kingdom and want to be on their own, and the dwarves probably don't care and don't tax them or anything 20180218 16:30:58<+wesnoth-discord-> Well, I can dig that too. It's a little nod to the concept of a race not necessarily being all in one faction. They could have called them humans, elves, and dwarves, but the actual names suggest more complicated politics at work. 20180218 16:31:01<+wesnoth-discord-> it's a neat situation all the same, probably my favorite default faction for the image it portrays 20180218 16:31:10<+wesnoth-discord-> to be fair TNR is sparked by events in HttT 20180218 16:31:56<+wesnoth-discord-> conservative isolationists banding together with free-ranging outlaw types in the mutual interest of being left the hell alone to do what they want 20180218 16:33:01<+wesnoth-discord-> at some point i definitely want to write up some kind of prequel campaign, where elves and dwarves first begin their rivalry 20180218 16:33:14<+wesnoth-discord-> Yeah, like I said, I actually find the dwarf-human outlaw cooperation more interesting than the mages and merfolk being split between the loyalists and rebels. 20180218 16:33:26<+wesnoth-discord-> probably featuring the very first deployment of dwarvish firearms, and potentially a quest revolving around gathering the resources to create such 20180218 16:34:08<+wesnoth-discord-> so the gunpowder ingredients can only be found in an elven wilderness area or something? 20180218 16:34:33<+wesnoth-discord-> something sorta like that, maybe 20180218 16:34:57<+wesnoth-discord-> i was actually thinking that the predominant 'power' on the continent, beforehand, would be the more bestial native species 20180218 16:35:03<+wesnoth-discord-> Obviously the elves all used to live in the mountains before the dwarves drove them out for the resources. 20180218 16:35:34<+wesnoth-discord-> communes of nagas, saurians, trolls, and merfolk that have some kind of shared history and came to power using the rivers as a main network of trade 20180218 16:35:42<+wesnoth-discord-> And abandoned their ewok-like dwarf forest towns. 20180218 16:36:01<+wesnoth-discord-> uhh... 20180218 16:36:16<+wesnoth-discord-> xD 20180218 16:36:47<+wesnoth-discord-> https://wiki.wesnoth.org/Timeline_of_Wesnoth 20180218 16:37:05<+wesnoth-discord-> Do you feel like trolls have the capacity for enough cooperation to trade with those other races? 20180218 16:37:27<+wesnoth-discord-> i mean, they cooperate OK with orcs 20180218 16:37:28<+wesnoth-discord-> well 20180218 16:37:42<+wesnoth-discord-> i'd have to think on that, might exclude them 20180218 16:37:56<+wesnoth-discord-> Fair point. 20180218 16:38:09<+wesnoth-discord-> the orcs more exploit them 20180218 16:38:15<+wesnoth-discord-> but they're definitely capable of alliances 20180218 16:38:28<+wesnoth-discord-> northern rebirth has a few who make that decision 20180218 16:38:40<+wesnoth-discord-> and there's some others 20180218 16:39:06<+wesnoth-discord-> older trolls tend to be pretty fiercely isolationist and kept to themselves, but younger ones journey around and are probably more diplomatic 20180218 16:40:26<+wesnoth-discord-> so i kind of envision an early troll-dominated society in the mountains to be like disparate feuding warbands but who easily come together if need be, and have an understanding with the other races who are more adept at providing goods and engineering solutions 20180218 16:41:51-!- octalot [~steve@77.119.128.116.wireless.dyn.drei.com] has joined #wesnoth 20180218 16:42:28<+wesnoth-discord-> Trolls have seemed more fickle than their exclusive inclusion in the northerner faction suggests. 20180218 16:42:54<+wesnoth-discord-> Taking whatever side is convenient at the time. 20180218 16:43:13<+wesnoth-discord-> Or fighting everyone at once. 20180218 16:43:21<+wesnoth-discord-> so the trolls like nature/meditation, and generally want to be left alone otherwise, the elves like nature and generally want to be left alone otherwise, and the dwarves are in the middle of discovering how to exploit nature for firepower? 20180218 16:44:33-!- Narrat [~Narrat@p5DCC67B4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth 20180218 16:44:34<+wesnoth-discord-> (convenient excuse for an 'everyone vs. the dwarves' setup 20180218 16:44:36<+wesnoth-discord-> ) 20180218 16:44:49<+wesnoth-discord-> Come to think of it, you could make a case for the dwarves having bats in their faction because they're needed for gunpowder. 20180218 16:45:01<+wesnoth-discord-> lol perfect 20180218 16:45:02<+wesnoth-discord-> wait what? 20180218 16:45:14<+wesnoth-discord-> Bat guano is one of the main ingredients of black powder. 20180218 16:45:36<+wesnoth-discord-> So it would make sense for them to "farm" them. 20180218 16:45:42-!- octalot [~steve@77.119.128.116.wireless.dyn.drei.com] has quit [Client Quit] 20180218 16:45:51<+wesnoth-discord-> well, now I know, I guess 20180218 16:45:53<+wesnoth-discord-> lol 20180218 16:45:54-!- octalot [~steve@77.119.128.116.wireless.dyn.drei.com] has joined #wesnoth 20180218 16:45:54<+wesnoth-discord-> lol 'invade the troll caves to steal their bat guano' 20180218 16:47:08<+wesnoth-discord-> Yeah, the more I think about this idea, the more I like it. 20180218 16:47:35<+wesnoth-discord-> i would love to make it, if i weren't so bad at campaigns 20180218 16:47:49<+wesnoth-discord-> if someone else puts a repo on github, i could contribute, i guess 20180218 17:06:57-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180218 17:07:05-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20180218 17:13:05-!- octalot [~steve@77.119.128.116.wireless.dyn.drei.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20180218 17:24:19-!- Bonobo [~Bonobo@61.68.156.44] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20180218 17:32:59-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180218 17:33:07-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20180218 17:38:08-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180218 17:38:14-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20180218 17:58:43-!- octalot [~steve@77.119.128.116.wireless.dyn.drei.com] has joined #wesnoth 20180218 18:19:11-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180218 18:19:19-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20180218 18:31:35-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180218 18:31:41-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20180218 18:48:00<+wesnoth-discord-> @Meta Mirage pretty "an orc? A troll" is T S01 and has been, likewise for "a flock of scarecrows" in T S02 20180218 18:48:09<+wesnoth-discord-> * pretty sure 20180218 18:55:31-!- octalot [~steve@77.119.128.116.wireless.dyn.drei.com] has quit [] 20180218 18:55:43-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20180218 19:24:50-!- vultraz [uid24821@wesnoth/developer/vultraz] has joined #wesnoth 20180218 19:25:30-!- octalot [~steve@77.119.128.116.wireless.dyn.drei.com] has joined #wesnoth 20180218 19:35:40-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has joined #wesnoth 20180218 20:57:17-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180218 20:57:28-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20180218 21:25:29-!- claymore [~claymore@unaffiliated/claymore] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20180218 21:50:14-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180218 21:50:23-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20180218 21:59:39<+wesnoth-discord-> What does T S01 and T S02 mean? 20180218 21:59:58<+wesnoth-discord-> Tutorial: Scenario 01 20180218 22:00:12<+wesnoth-discord-> and Tutorial: Scenario 2 20180218 22:02:00< janebot> wesnoth: Can someone help me find this wesnoth addon? (by /u/The_Running_Man2000) https://redd.it/7yhqkn 20180218 22:09:14-!- octalot [~steve@77.119.128.116.wireless.dyn.drei.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20180218 22:56:58<+wesnoth-discord-> Have i heard correctly that the new dev branch has a new undead campaign added? 20180218 22:57:29<+wesnoth-discord-> Yes. 1.13 has a new canon undead campaign. 20180218 22:57:41<+wesnoth-discord-> Secrets of the Ancients. 20180218 22:57:47<+wesnoth-discord-> Whats the difficulty? 20180218 22:57:57<+wesnoth-discord-> I think expert. 20180218 22:58:07<+wesnoth-discord-> Ooooh! Very interesting 20180218 22:58:08<+wesnoth-discord-> Thanks much m8 20180218 22:58:15<+wesnoth-discord-> Welcome! 20180218 23:05:45<+wesnoth-discord-> secrets of the ancients is listed as intermediate though it really seems more expert level to me 20180218 23:06:02<+wesnoth-discord-> even on the middle difficulty that gryphon level took me a couple tries! 20180218 23:06:11<+wesnoth-discord-> Oh. I thought I remembered seeing it as expert. 20180218 23:06:18<+wesnoth-discord-> (on hard I just resorted to leader assassination with shadows) 20180218 23:06:33<+wesnoth-discord-> Cool. 20180218 23:06:46<+wesnoth-discord-> all scenarios are quite ok except the last one 20180218 23:07:07<+wesnoth-discord-> though some really require some more obscure strats 20180218 23:07:33<+wesnoth-discord-> eg the zombie scenario i believe 20180218 23:07:52<+wesnoth-discord-> (Spoiler) I have arachnophobia, so the spider-infested tunnel was a pain in the butt to me. 20180218 23:08:30<+wesnoth-discord-> cute little spiders 20180218 23:08:31<+wesnoth-discord-> man have you seen the new profile picture for the giant spider 20180218 23:08:39<+wesnoth-discord-> looks like a photo 20180218 23:08:43<+wesnoth-discord-> Yeah. 20180218 23:09:16<+wesnoth-discord-> I remembered I was trying NR with the new version, I got to the search for Malifor mission, and I saw the image. 20180218 23:09:26<+wesnoth-discord-> I had a minor freakout. 20180218 23:09:29<+wesnoth-discord-> haha 20180218 23:10:00<+wesnoth-discord-> XD yep 20180218 23:11:21<+wesnoth-discord-> EoZ what did you mean by the last scenario of SotA? you mean it's too hard or too tedious? 20180218 23:12:29<+wesnoth-discord-> I did think it was realllly long but nothing compared to final scenario of NR...or 20180218 23:12:34<+wesnoth-discord-> hammer of thursagan 20180218 23:15:00<+wesnoth-discord-> it seems harder and more tedious than others 20180218 23:15:08<+wesnoth-discord-> it might be harder because it is more tedious 20180218 23:15:35<+wesnoth-discord-> i think in final scenario of nr the trick was to save hamel 20180218 23:15:43<+wesnoth-discord-> and then you win 20180218 23:16:33<+wesnoth-discord-> in hammer of thursagan i think you couldnt lose, it was am atter of technique, in the last scenario of sota on hard you really need to try hard 20180218 23:17:24<+wesnoth-discord-> but i may try to play that through 20180218 23:17:47<+wesnoth-discord-> (btw made less cool by the lack of the old ancient lich sprite eh) 20180218 23:18:21<+wesnoth-discord-> yeah the last scenario of sota is pretty hard. For me the hardest scenarios in that campaign were the spider one, and the gryphon one before I used the leaderkill tactic 20180218 23:18:56<+wesnoth-discord-> and as you say, the final scenarios of NR and HoT aren't hard just kind of boring 20180218 23:18:59<+wesnoth-discord-> there were some hard scenarios before yes 20180218 23:19:26<+wesnoth-discord-> in final scenario of NR it took me some time to figure out how to save hamel 20180218 23:19:34<+wesnoth-discord-> well i sant part of my drakes army 20180218 23:19:53<+wesnoth-discord-> I loved the last level of THoT, it was just really long and often felt like it was just dragging at points. 20180218 23:20:32<+wesnoth-discord-> not the worst f levels definitely 20180218 23:21:04<+wesnoth-discord-> but like i mentioned yesterday some didnt know how to win that even though you cant lose it 20180218 23:21:28<+wesnoth-discord-> but indeed i rememmber i tried some strategies there 20180218 23:21:55<+wesnoth-discord-> i think i was playing with pushing the first dwarf leader early and all that 20180218 23:22:03<+wesnoth-discord-> later i somehow pushed till the end 20180218 23:22:16<+wesnoth-discord-> not that memorable 20180218 23:22:43<+wesnoth-discord-> what was it called 20180218 23:22:50<+wesnoth-discord-> scenario 20180218 23:23:14<+wesnoth-discord-> The Underlevels? 20180218 23:23:30<+wesnoth-discord-> maybe i still have replay 20180218 23:24:41<+wesnoth-discord-> no i played it on earlier wesnoth version 20180218 23:24:45<+wesnoth-discord-> i dont have it 20180218 23:25:51<+wesnoth-discord-> i dont remember that much out of the campaign except some battles with orcs, some battle with dwarves in the open space, the betrayal of dwarves when we finally get to the end of journey and then the last scenario 20180218 23:36:54<+wesnoth-discord-> Oh man I want to see that spider xD 20180218 23:37:01<+wesnoth-discord-> I LOVE spiders 20180218 23:37:19<+wesnoth-discord-> Not Hamel im sorry that you have arachnophobia ;( 20180218 23:38:02<+wesnoth-discord-> Oh its fine. I've learned to live with it. But thanks! 20180218 23:50:14<+wesnoth-discord-> all this talk about that level 20180218 23:50:42<+wesnoth-discord-> makes me want to rework it 20180218 23:50:46<+wesnoth-discord-> the underlevels or whatever it is 20180218 23:56:41-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] --- Log closed Mon Feb 19 00:00:14 2018