--- Log opened Tue Feb 20 00:00:13 2018 --- Day changed Tue Feb 20 2018 20180220 00:00:13<+wesnoth-discord-> I guess adding in 64-bit support would require maintaining a separate version and also WinXP wouldn't be able to use that version anyways 20180220 00:00:18<+wesnoth-discord-> That might be a good question for the Windows packager 20180220 00:00:20<+wesnoth-discord-> I don't know if they can be removed for GPL violation 20180220 00:00:28<+wesnoth-discord-> you can't really source code in a port 20180220 00:01:01<+wesnoth-discord-> basically what android-specific changes they made ๐Ÿ˜› 20180220 00:01:17<+wesnoth-discord-> I would assume they have to provide the source code to be available somewhereโ€ฆ but they might just try to point to the GitHub page or Wesnoth.org trying to pass it off as their own 20180220 00:01:24<+wesnoth-discord-> I'd love to see just an 'official dev-supported' version from the Wesnoth Team sooner or later 20180220 00:01:53<+wesnoth-discord-> the iOS app is officially supported... haven't gotten around to the android one yet 20180220 00:02:19<+wesnoth-discord-> they say it is available for other platforms and link to the main website 20180220 00:02:26<+wesnoth-discord-> they never try to tell people they didn't make it >_> 20180220 00:02:40<+wesnoth-discord-> there's an unofficial android port we've linked to. 20180220 00:03:02<+wesnoth-discord-> let me see.. 20180220 00:03:05<+wesnoth-discord-> yup, just hoping an official port can be made available someday when resources permit 20180220 00:03:10<+wesnoth-discord-> yeah i'm aware of it ๐Ÿ˜„ 20180220 00:03:19<+wesnoth-discord-> http://www.alessandropira.org/bfw_android/get.html 20180220 00:03:28<+wesnoth-discord-> the Pira port ๐Ÿ˜ƒ 20180220 00:03:37<+wesnoth-discord-> neither of the ones you linked is it? 20180220 00:03:41<+wesnoth-discord-> ok, that saves me some trouble 20180220 00:03:45<+wesnoth-discord-> I'm ok with the Pira port, they provide source code 20180220 00:03:58-!- Appleman1234 [~quassel@124x38x163x22.ap124.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #wesnoth 20180220 00:03:58<+wesnoth-discord-> the Androth port does NOT provide source code or properly attribute 20180220 00:04:27<+wesnoth-discord-> GPL requires them to include the license as part of the game as well (through in-game menu or otherwise) and nothing like that is done in-game 20180220 00:04:32<+wesnoth-discord-> (just tested on my emulator) 20180220 00:04:49<+wesnoth-discord-> mutters annoyance at the GPL 20180220 00:04:58<+wesnoth-discord-> how are add-on licenses dealt with 20180220 00:04:59<+wesnoth-discord-> in ports 20180220 00:05:03<+wesnoth-discord-> anyway, we can probably have these taken down for trademark violation 20180220 00:05:13<+wesnoth-discord-> in the official port as well 20180220 00:05:24<+wesnoth-discord-> the Pira port is fine, make it 'official' and have it supported properly and it can stay up 20180220 00:05:32<+wesnoth-discord-> then just remove the Androth port 20180220 00:05:48<+wesnoth-discord-> Pira has posted to your wesnoth forums and is a regular user there (apparently) 20180220 00:06:38<+wesnoth-discord-> Will get on it 20180220 00:06:47<+wesnoth-discord-> thanks for pointing this out ๐Ÿ˜ƒ 20180220 00:07:45<+wesnoth-discord-> like, can you still get addons while on android or ios? 20180220 00:07:53<+wesnoth-discord-> Yes, you can. 20180220 00:08:32<+wesnoth-discord-> Well, I'm 100% certain with the Android one, but I don't use the iOS version, so who knows. 20180220 00:12:05<+wesnoth-discord-> @ancestral https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=36471&p=524702#p524702 20180220 00:12:33< Soliton> you could just ask the androthsoft guy. it's cjhopman a former contributor. 20180220 00:12:39-!- Narrat [~Narrat@p5DCC67B4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance.] 20180220 00:14:27<+wesnoth-discord-> @Soliton they violated the GPL by not posting source code changes or links to it or info on how to obtain it. 20180220 00:14:33<+wesnoth-discord-> otherwise I wouldn't really bother with them at all 20180220 00:14:59<+wesnoth-discord-> The link I just posted may also be of interest toy ou. 20180220 00:17:57<+wesnoth-discord-> tyvm for the link, looking through it now 20180220 00:19:04-!- ToBeCloud [uid51591@wikimedia/ToBeFree] has joined #wesnoth 20180220 00:21:07<+wesnoth-discord-> hmm 20180220 00:21:21<+wesnoth-discord-> ok so they put the source code link for it in that thread but not on their website >_> 20180220 00:21:35<+wesnoth-discord-> kinda odd 20180220 00:22:52<+wesnoth-discord-> Not like it particularly matters. It's been abandoned and was being sold for money. 20180220 00:23:47<+wesnoth-discord-> I don't feel that having the link to the source code ONLY on the BfW forums instead of their main site and the download googleplay page is in the spirit of the GPL... 20180220 00:24:14<+wesnoth-discord-> But yeah if they can get in touch with the person and ask em to remove the old port from Google Play that would be nice 20180220 00:24:22<+wesnoth-discord-> less confusion for people looking for it on the store 20180220 00:25:49<+wesnoth-discord-> yeah apparently Android & Mobile gaming is HUGE now...many people ONLY have a smartphone 20180220 00:26:32<+wesnoth-discord-> Technically all that the GNU GPL requires is that you can contact the author to get the source code. 20180220 00:26:44<+wesnoth-discord-> That's a holdover from the old days of snail mail-based code transfers. 20180220 00:28:28<+wesnoth-discord-> that is only permitted for 'non commercial distribution' 20180220 00:28:34<+wesnoth-discord-> they're charging money so they have stricter requirements 20180220 00:28:46<+wesnoth-discord-> GPL v2 right? 20180220 00:28:46<+wesnoth-discord-> https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-2.0.html 20180220 00:29:20<+wesnoth-discord-> also this: a) You must cause the modified files to carry prominent notices stating that you changed the files and the date of any change. 20180220 00:29:52<+wesnoth-discord-> That point applies to the source code itself so I'm not sure what you're getting at. 20180220 00:30:25<+wesnoth-discord-> (And I'm getting a sense of dรฉjร  vu from this exchange.) 20180220 00:31:45<+wesnoth-discord-> In either case the situation will be handled accordingly, thank you for bringing it to our attention. 20180220 00:31:49<+wesnoth-discord-> ๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿพ 20180220 01:35:57-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180220 01:36:39-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20180220 01:39:11-!- Bonobo [~Bonobo@61.68.156.44] has joined #wesnoth 20180220 01:54:07<+wesnoth-discord-> I have a complaint to make against the Windows installer version of the BfW game files... 20180220 01:54:17<+wesnoth-discord-> the stable version so far (not sure if development version varies) 20180220 01:54:43<+wesnoth-discord-> it is installing to X:\Program Files x86\Battle for Wesnoth by default 20180220 01:54:50<+wesnoth-discord-> where X is the drive letter 20180220 01:55:09<+wesnoth-discord-> on Windows, that is considered a protected directory and it is good development practice to not use that as the default install directory 20180220 01:55:23<+wesnoth-discord-> especially for a game or other thing that doesn't require system-level access 20180220 01:56:11<+wesnoth-discord-> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/231976805987385345/415325727517573120/2018-02-19_20_55_51-Battle_for_Wesnoth_Setup.png 20180220 01:59:00<+wesnoth-discord-> Consider the default install directory to be something better like: %HOMEPATH%\BattleforWesnoth 20180220 01:59:39<+wesnoth-discord-> and for the dev version: %HOMEPATH%\BattleforWesnoth-dev-v1.xx.xx 20180220 02:00:07<+wesnoth-discord-> Stable version doesn't really need version number on it in the install directory. A simple version.txt in the install directory can take care of that if needed 20180220 02:02:13<+wesnoth-discord-> ok so UserData can be stored in MyDocuments; that is good 20180220 02:02:35<+wesnoth-discord-> problem is (again) the it makes file permissions and stuff a bit worse to deal with if installed to that directory >_> 20180220 02:10:40<+wesnoth-discord-> Consider implementing 7-zip compression in lieu of or in addition to the existing options; especially useful on portable and limited-space devices 20180220 02:27:06<+wesnoth-discord-> Can I make a romance story as part of a scenario? Can I make it lewd with all the hand-holding? 20180220 02:36:03<+wesnoth-discord-> PG-13 at worst and proper descriptors of content so people are aware of it 20180220 02:36:22<+wesnoth-discord-> BfW is generally an all-ages thing and all addons (to my knowledge) have to follow an approval process to be on the official server 20180220 02:36:37<+wesnoth-discord-> that said there's nothing stopping you from making whatever you want but you'll have to convince people to download/install it manually 20180220 02:36:43< celticminstrel> ... 20180220 02:37:05<+wesnoth-discord-> @Daedalus I'm not sure where you got that "good development practice" part from. 20180220 02:37:11< celticminstrel> I'm just confused at seeing "lewd" and "hand-holding" in the same sentence. 20180220 02:37:32<+wesnoth-discord-> Also add-ons do not require approval to be submitted to the server. 20180220 02:37:36-!- ToBeCloud [uid51591@wikimedia/ToBeFree] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 20180220 02:38:06<+wesnoth-discord-> https://serverfault.com/questions/623249/is-it-a-best-practice-to-install-programs-to-program-files 20180220 02:38:13<+wesnoth-discord-> serverfault, stackoverflow, etc 20180220 02:38:35<+wesnoth-discord-> since BfW isn't applying for Microsoft certification, there's no need to install in Program Files and Microsoft themselves actively discourage it 20180220 02:38:42<+wesnoth-discord-> Sigh. 20180220 02:38:46<+wesnoth-discord-> as far as Unix-based policies go, best practice is 'least permissions required' 20180220 02:39:16<+wesnoth-discord-> Can you tell me exactly where Microsoft actively discourages installing program code to a privileged directory? 20180220 02:39:20<+wesnoth-discord-> Please? 20180220 02:39:23<+wesnoth-discord-> sure, i'll link 20180220 02:39:25<+wesnoth-discord-> give me a few mins 20180220 02:40:22<+wesnoth-discord-> https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/cjacks/2008/02/05/where-should-i-write-program-data-instead-of-program-files/ 20180220 02:40:36<+wesnoth-discord-> that's from 2008 when the UAC was first introduced in Windows Vista, but the same applies 20180220 02:40:54<+wesnoth-discord-> Microsoft deliberately locked down the Program Files and other system directories to heavily-discourage malware from abusing it 20180220 02:41:26<+wesnoth-discord-> Excuse me but this thing you just linked refers to program data. 20180220 02:41:32<+wesnoth-discord-> Not code (binaries). 20180220 02:42:17<+wesnoth-discord-> What you just linked isn't news to me or anyone else I talked with when pushed for the decision to drop the data-in-install-folder option from the installer. 20180220 02:46:40<+wesnoth-discord-> i'm referring to the installation of the core program itself (the game) during initial install 20180220 02:50:21<+wesnoth-discord-> During the Windows Vista timeframe and making the first foray into 'User Account Control', Microsoft deliberately put restrictions in place that would take technical capability to bypass in order to inhibit the spread of malware and limit the use of admin actions unless necessary 20180220 02:56:27<+wesnoth-discord-> Okay, so are you going to tell me exactly where Microsoft discourages installing program code to Program Files or are you just going to keep going in cricles? 20180220 02:56:45<+wesnoth-discord-> i'm looking up a suitable reference for you but it seems to exist only in books instead of online 20180220 02:56:59<+wesnoth-discord-> MS has purged their site of nearly everything pre-Win10 so it is difficult to find 20180220 02:57:09<+wesnoth-discord-> Just so you know I have been using Windows since 1997 so I'm not exactly a stranger to the Windows ecosystem. 20180220 02:57:11<+wesnoth-discord-> this is the thread I was looking at: https://superuser.com/questions/628736/why-would-i-install-a-program-into-c-directly 20180220 02:57:42<+wesnoth-discord-> according to the various responses there it is not 'good design practice' to install to C:\ or C:\Program Files without a decent reason for doing so 20180220 02:57:53<+wesnoth-discord-> on many systems, installing to Program Files also requires admin rights 20180220 02:58:04<+wesnoth-discord-> So far this just seems like nitpicking on your part and you are deliberately ignoring industry practices in favour of your own arguments. 20180220 02:59:06<+wesnoth-discord-> Just go and check where most games, web browsers, art software, text editors, and so on install to. 20180220 02:59:07<+wesnoth-discord-> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0321440307 20180220 02:59:32<+wesnoth-discord-> It isn't really nitpicking; just trying to enhance the end-user experience with BfW 20180220 03:00:14<+wesnoth-discord-> Well, the good news for you then is that just like other developers do, the user has a choice to install Wesnoth to a non-admin directory. 20180220 03:00:52<+wesnoth-discord-> Hopefully that settles the matter for good. 20180220 03:04:48<+wesnoth-discord-> You seem to want to shut down a conversation rather than have a proper discussion. 20180220 03:05:12<+wesnoth-discord-> And you seem to be ignoring everything I say and not really paying attention to the material you're linking. 20180220 03:05:24<+wesnoth-discord-> I'm not ignoring what you say 20180220 03:05:31<+wesnoth-discord-> I'm trying to find the citation you're requesting that's all 20180220 03:05:44<+wesnoth-discord-> you required proof from Microsoft themselves about not installing to Program Files 20180220 03:06:05<+wesnoth-discord-> Then make sure to find it before dropping more links that point in the opposite direction to what you're advocating for. 20180220 03:08:05<+wesnoth-discord-> ok 20180220 03:08:08<+wesnoth-discord-> here's a very simple one 20180220 03:08:17<+wesnoth-discord-> right now, BfW for windows requires admin rights to install 20180220 03:08:27<+wesnoth-discord-> if the directory were set outside of program files then that's no longer required 20180220 03:09:11<+wesnoth-discord-> I understand that. 20180220 03:09:52<+wesnoth-discord-> many users (especially those that want to play games like BfW) may be on PCs that don't have admin rights for their account 20180220 03:10:11<+wesnoth-discord-> Then they can customize the install path in the relevant installer page as they see fit. 20180220 03:10:24<+wesnoth-discord-> Same as they'd do with any other program. 20180220 03:10:31<+wesnoth-discord-> They can't do that though 20180220 03:10:39<+wesnoth-discord-> they literally can't run the installer without admin rights 20180220 03:10:50<+wesnoth-discord-> you might also consider that it's not necessarily a good thing for a normal user to be able to install random software on their computer without admin rights 20180220 03:10:53<+wesnoth-discord-> it immediately requires UAC admin elevation 20180220 03:11:00<+wesnoth-discord-> which is precisely the reason admin accounts exist 20180220 03:11:09<+wesnoth-discord-> Yumi, you might wanna hold off on that ๐Ÿ˜› 20180220 03:11:21<+wesnoth-discord-> there's two types of Windows Accounts (generally) 20180220 03:11:25<+wesnoth-discord-> standard, and admin-enabled 20180220 03:11:30<+wesnoth-discord-> lol I went northerners vs drakes (AI) 20180220 03:11:32<+wesnoth-discord-> and I won in 5 turns 20180220 03:11:39<+wesnoth-discord-> cuz AI just rushed their leader unit out 20180220 03:11:41<+wesnoth-discord-> standard user accounts can't perform any admin commands at all, they're denied 20180220 03:11:52<+wesnoth-discord-> admin-enabled accounts get the UAC prompt and have to confirm or decline it 20180220 03:12:27<+wesnoth-discord-> if a standard user account can run an installer without requiring admin-elevation then that allows 'Standard' non-admin accounts to install and play the game if the directory is not set to Program Files 20180220 03:12:36<+wesnoth-discord-> So exactly how changing the default install path solves that shortcoming? 20180220 03:13:09<+wesnoth-discord-> changing the default install path for the Windows-installer will allow for non-admins to be able to install and play the game 20180220 03:13:26<+wesnoth-discord-> How so? 20180220 03:13:47<+wesnoth-discord-> because installing to the directories I specified earlier don't require admin rights 20180220 03:13:57<+wesnoth-discord-> The installer doesn't start installing instantly as it's launched. 20180220 03:13:59<+wesnoth-discord-> basically uses environmental variables to install to the user's local directory 20180220 03:14:05<+wesnoth-discord-> That's not the reason why you get the UAC prompt when launching it. 20180220 03:14:27<+wesnoth-discord-> the installer requires UAC elevation because it installs to a protected system directory (Program Files) 20180220 03:14:41<+wesnoth-discord-> Windows doesn't know that when launching the installer. 20180220 03:14:58<+wesnoth-discord-> ask the person who builds the windows version perhaps? >_> 20180220 03:15:07<+wesnoth-discord-> Sure, you can do that. 20180220 03:26:53<+wesnoth-discord-> If you had stuck around a little longer instead of leaving the server perphaps you'd been interested to know that there is a way to bypass UAC with all the caveats resulting from that. 20180220 03:30:56<+wesnoth-discord-> is interested to know ๐Ÿ‘€ 20180220 03:33:37<+wesnoth-discord-> https://superuser.com/a/981202 20180220 03:35:03<+wesnoth-discord-> It may break if the installer software we use decides it needs to write into the HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE Software hive in spite of the install location, though. The other alternative is to just use 7-zip or something to extract the embedded archive from the installer and unpack its contents wherever you want. 20180220 03:35:53<+wesnoth-discord-> That's pretty cool. Thanks ๐Ÿ‘ 20180220 03:36:02<+wesnoth-discord-> Ay Daedalus has a picture of Lucca from Chrono Trigger 20180220 03:36:06<+wesnoth-discord-> Wesnoth doesn't need to be installed to a specific path to run on any platform (although on non-Mac POSIX it may require a more specific directory structure for it to realize that). 20180220 03:36:19<+wesnoth-discord-> (Or a trivial command line argument.) 20180220 04:34:29-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180220 04:34:37-!- janebot_ [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20180220 04:34:38-!- janebot_ is now known as janebot 20180220 04:45:17<+wesnoth-discord-> Well that was all very curious. 20180220 05:16:12< janebot> Tweet (by @Wesnoth) Scheduled forums/MP server downtime for February 24 2018: https://r.wesnoth.org/t47815 [ https://twitter.com/Wesnoth/status/965817340226166784 ] 20180220 05:38:56-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180220 05:39:07-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20180220 06:00:42<+wesnoth-discord-> downtime will take between 2 and 24 hours ๐Ÿ˜‚ 20180220 06:16:56<+wesnoth-discord-> I have to consider every possible eventuality. 20180220 06:20:02-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has quit [Quit: And lo! The computer falls into a deep sleep, to awake again some other day!] 20180220 06:25:25<+wesnoth-discord-> And this is the second most complicated task I've ever been in charge of after 9 years of running the forums. 20180220 06:26:16<+wesnoth-discord-> it's okay 20180220 06:26:27<+wesnoth-discord-> you're the master programmer 20180220 06:26:40<+wesnoth-discord-> it will turn out fine ๐Ÿค“ 20180220 06:27:07<+wesnoth-discord-> ... I may have just jinxed you 20180220 06:39:09-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180220 06:39:18-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20180220 06:44:02<+wesnoth-discord-> Taking another look at migrating Wesband. What's the current syntax for the id key of [unit_type]? 20180220 06:44:27<+wesnoth-discord-> I actually hit some unit not found errors that could be suppressed with quotes 20180220 06:44:40<+wesnoth-discord-> e.g. id=WBD Brute failed 20180220 06:44:53<+wesnoth-discord-> id="WBD Brute" passed 20180220 06:44:54<+wesnoth-discord-> you don't need quotes 20180220 06:45:17<+wesnoth-discord-> id=te xt works, as far ad I can remember with 1.12.6 20180220 06:45:20<+wesnoth-discord-> yes, get that from the wiki but that's not what's happening. 20180220 06:45:29<+wesnoth-discord-> I'm targeting 1.13.11 . 20180220 06:45:36<+wesnoth-discord-> Maybe the quotes are part of the unit id? 20180220 06:46:29<+wesnoth-discord-> ok...I know they weren't needed for 1.10.x 20180220 06:46:42<+wesnoth-discord-> but whether they seem needed now is erratic 20180220 06:49:11<+wesnoth-discord-> can you give a short snippet of the code that failed without the codes 20180220 06:49:14<+wesnoth-discord-> quotes* jesus 20180220 06:50:33<+wesnoth-discord-> Failure may have to do with macro expansion ... one moment 20180220 06:50:46<+wesnoth-discord-> if you're using it in a macro, it almost definitely needs quotes 20180220 06:51:43<+wesnoth-discord-> ^ 20180220 06:53:29<+wesnoth-discord-> Ok ... this failed in macro expanision for the shops without quotes: 20180220 06:53:36<+wesnoth-discord-> [unittype] id="WBD Brute" name= "Brute" race=human hide_help=true gender=male image="units/lvl0s/brute.png" {MAGENTA_IS_THE_TEAM_COLOR} 20180220 06:53:56<+wesnoth-discord-> Discord's eating underscores 20180220 06:54:35<+wesnoth-discord-> so would it make sense to just mass-convert everything with whitespace to quotes to avoid macro issues? 20180220 06:55:10<+wesnoth-discord-> urgh 20180220 06:55:49<+wesnoth-discord-> wesband huh 20180220 06:55:54<+wesnoth-discord-> Yes. 20180220 06:56:01<+wesnoth-discord-> oh, 1.13 only? 20180220 06:56:24<+wesnoth-discord-> or is it not released at all 20180220 06:56:26<+wesnoth-discord-> Correct. Bugfix that went in at 1.11.1 made Wesband impossible to port until recently. 20180220 06:56:39<+wesnoth-discord-> last working release was 1.10.6 20180220 06:57:09<+wesnoth-discord-> is there a github 20180220 06:57:25<+wesnoth-discord-> hard to figure out what the problem is without seeing the whole file 20180220 06:57:50<+wesnoth-discord-> Ok ... will set up a Mercurial for this. 20180220 06:58:49<+wesnoth-discord-> * BitBucket Mercurial 20180220 06:59:29<+wesnoth-discord-> You don't actually need MAGENTA_IS_THE_TEAM_COLOR anymore, by the way 20180220 06:59:52<+wesnoth-discord-> It breaks when loading the unit file, right? 20180220 07:04:11<+wesnoth-discord-> Breaks during macro expansion. 20180220 07:04:23<+wesnoth-discord-> what is the error? 20180220 07:04:37<+wesnoth-discord-> "WBD Brute not found" 20180220 07:07:05<+wesnoth-discord-> Okay, I'm confused. Does the unit file lack quotes, the error lack quotes, or both? 20180220 07:07:23<+wesnoth-discord-> The error happens when the unit file lacks quotes. 20180220 07:07:31<+wesnoth-discord-> for the id attribute. 20180220 07:07:32<+wesnoth-discord-> that's not a macro expansion error 20180220 07:11:13<+wesnoth-discord-> alright, alternatively, put the unit file and the macro file somewhere 20180220 07:11:21<+wesnoth-discord-> maybe a link, or attach to a DM 20180220 07:11:37<+wesnoth-discord-> it's just easier to see the actual code 20180220 07:12:03<+wesnoth-discord-> right ... pushing to BitBucket now 20180220 07:14:01<+wesnoth-discord-> I feel like this is actually something to do with calling a macro 20180220 07:14:17<+wesnoth-discord-> it must be 20180220 07:14:21<+wesnoth-discord-> unit file is https://bitbucket.org/zaimoni/wesband/src/36d8d91ecec161bc0b6e7e218d3278131083a285/units/humans/Brute.cfg 20180220 07:15:09<+wesnoth-discord-> failing macro is defined in https://bitbucket.org/zaimoni/wesband/src/36d8d91ecec161bc0b6e7e218d3278131083a285/macros/stores.cfg 20180220 07:15:30<+wesnoth-discord-> which macro is it 20180220 07:15:40<+wesnoth-discord-> look ~ line 2196 20180220 07:16:13<+wesnoth-discord-> hmmm... that's quite the way to do it 20180220 07:16:21<+wesnoth-discord-> CREATE_HENCH_INSERT_TO_TAVERN 20180220 07:17:44<+wesnoth-discord-> of course if the macro doesn't fall flat then the archaic lua does. It'll be a while before this can be play-tested. 20180220 07:20:13<+wesnoth-discord-> Does every other unit file with no quotes around its ID work? 20180220 07:22:07<+wesnoth-discord-> ah 20180220 07:22:15<+wesnoth-discord-> Most of them don't prevent hitting lua errors without quotes. The other one that did was https://bitbucket.org/zaimoni/wesband/src/36d8d91ecec161bc0b6e7e218d3278131083a285/units/elves/Elf_Female.cfg 20180220 07:22:33<+wesnoth-discord-> probably the macro needs to look like this 20180220 07:22:52<+wesnoth-discord-> {VARIABLE_OP new_hench rand ("unit_a","unit_b","unit_c")} 20180220 07:23:04<+wesnoth-discord-> Ok 20180220 07:24:13<+wesnoth-discord-> Ummm. 20180220 07:24:18<+wesnoth-discord-> No. 20180220 07:24:21<+wesnoth-discord-> no? 20180220 07:24:29<+wesnoth-discord-> ๐Ÿ˜ฆ 20180220 07:24:39<+wesnoth-discord-> {VARIABLE_OP new_hench rand ("unit_a,unit_b,unit_c")} 20180220 07:24:48<+wesnoth-discord-> Although your version might also work for the wrong reasons. 20180220 07:25:05<+wesnoth-discord-> The offending unit ids have spaces in them. 20180220 07:25:12<+wesnoth-discord-> hmm 20180220 07:25:23<+wesnoth-discord-> The non-offending unit ids have spaces in them. 20180220 07:25:24<+wesnoth-discord-> Namely, IIRC "foo"-"bar"-"baz" on a single attribute value is coalesced into "foo-bar-baz". 20180220 07:25:45<+wesnoth-discord-> so for my campaign 20180220 07:25:50<+wesnoth-discord-> the spawn code looks like this 20180220 07:25:53<+wesnoth-discord-> {SPAWN ("Demon Zephyr","Demon Windlasher") 2 15 11} 20180220 07:26:05<+wesnoth-discord-> I'm basing the syntax on something like that 20180220 07:26:09<+wesnoth-discord-> Ok 20180220 07:26:11<+wesnoth-discord-> It only works because of what I just said. 20180220 07:27:13<+wesnoth-discord-> okay I understand what you're saying 20180220 07:27:28<+wesnoth-discord-> Otherwise it'd be rather silly. If you expand the VARIABLE_OP macro, for instance, you end up with a line like this: rand="unit_a","unit_b","unit_c" Normally, this is better applied to multi-attribute definitions: key1,key2,key3="value1","value2","value3" 20180220 07:27:57<+wesnoth-discord-> But if there's a single key then value coalescing will take place. 20180220 07:28:14<+wesnoth-discord-> The expansion that requires quotes at the id value to find the unit was: 20180220 07:28:23<+wesnoth-discord-> macros/stores.cfg:2196: {VARIABLE_OP new_hench rand "WBD Woodsman,WBD Ruffian,WBD Peasant,WBD Brute,WBD Civilian,WBD Initiate,WBD Nobleman,WBD Elf,WBD She Elf"} 20180220 07:28:25<+wesnoth-discord-> put in the parentheses first 20180220 07:28:30<+wesnoth-discord-> see if that fixes it 20180220 07:29:57<+wesnoth-discord-> This all seems a bit suspicious because if memory serves people did mess with the WML parser between 1.13.10 and 1.13.11. 20180220 07:30:13<+wesnoth-discord-> Yes. the no-quotes version worked at 1.13.8 20180220 07:30:47<+wesnoth-discord-> 1.13.10 was untestable due to no multiplayer campaigns working 20180220 07:31:29<+wesnoth-discord-> The thing is that mainline is probably working fine without quotes: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/blob/master/data/core/units/elves/Fighter.cfg 20180220 07:31:49<+wesnoth-discord-> Hopefully. I haven't checked since I've not touched the game in a year. 20180220 07:31:50<+wesnoth-discord-> > probably ๐Ÿค” 20180220 07:32:12<+wesnoth-discord-> okay to be fair nobody touches 1.13 20180220 07:32:20<+wesnoth-discord-> I do, just not the game. 20180220 07:33:06<+wesnoth-discord-> Except the developers. 20180220 07:33:54<+wesnoth-discord-> And that's how things break and nobody notices until 6 releases later. ๐Ÿ˜› 20180220 07:34:03<+wesnoth-discord-> but my poor campaign D: 20180220 07:34:11<+wesnoth-discord-> won't you play it sometimeeee? 20180220 07:34:54<+wesnoth-discord-> I can play the new version right now, but I'll never be shadowm. 20180220 07:35:35<+wesnoth-discord-> By far the most suspicious change regarding spaces in unquoted strings is this: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/13a4822d77d8cb32b219b7c647fc9710309a2735#diff-a54691a6aafa00c89296ceafa9c2bad5 20180220 07:35:44<+wesnoth-discord-> It first landed in 1.13.11. 20180220 07:36:11<+wesnoth-discord-> the new version might be buggy 20180220 07:36:24<+wesnoth-discord-> I fixed a lot, but more keep popping up t_t 20180220 07:36:38<+wesnoth-discord-> I'm playing it on the bus to school, I'm already fucked. 20180220 07:36:40<+wesnoth-discord-> "Fun" 20180220 07:36:48<+wesnoth-discord-> @adramolokh lol 20180220 07:36:57<+wesnoth-discord-> ๐Ÿ˜‚ 20180220 07:37:41<+wesnoth-discord-> maybe shadowm will be more willing after I actually finish it 20180220 07:38:04<+wesnoth-discord-> idk ๐Ÿ˜– 20180220 07:38:11<+wesnoth-discord-> RNG-dependent error 20180220 07:38:30<+wesnoth-discord-> took three times to trigger 20180220 07:38:55<+wesnoth-discord-> Ok ... actual failure point was in lua 20180220 07:44:01<+wesnoth-discord-> 20180220 01:38:04 error scripting/lua: game_error: unknown unit type: WBD Brute stack traceback: [C]: in local 'cmd' lua/wml-utils.lua:145: in field 'handle_event_commands' lua/wml-flow.lua:52: in local 'cmd' lua/wml-utils.lua:145: in field 'handle_event_commands' lua/wml-flow.lua:6: in function 20180220 07:44:56<+wesnoth-discord-> my change only affected strings with variables 20180220 07:45:13<+wesnoth-discord-> unquoted strings with spaces have always worked, to my knowledge 20180220 07:45:24<+wesnoth-discord-> right, that's what was surprising 20180220 07:45:25<+wesnoth-discord-> but in terms of unit types, they are almost always space-less 20180220 07:45:30<+wesnoth-discord-> ie, WBD_Blue 20180220 07:45:54<+wesnoth-discord-> right, there was a convention change fairly early on (the oldest files use underscores) 20180220 07:46:58<+wesnoth-discord-> I'll be more willing after I get over my years-long mega Wesnoth burnout. 20180220 07:46:59<+wesnoth-discord-> two units down already 20180220 07:47:05<+wesnoth-discord-> what a great start 20180220 07:49:50<+wesnoth-discord-> what diff you are playing on 20180220 07:50:31<+wesnoth-discord-> i would not recommend hard 20180220 07:50:53<+wesnoth-discord-> because its hard 20180220 07:58:27<+wesnoth-discord-> normal 20180220 08:02:53<+wesnoth-discord-> Also, I don't get how unit types are almost always spaceless if the Default Era uses spaces 20180220 08:03:48<+wesnoth-discord-> My guess would be that 1) spaces don't improve readability that much and 2) it's non-intuitive that WML retains spaces even without quotes. 20180220 08:04:00<+wesnoth-discord-> Is this one of the things which differs between add-ons and core, like textdomain? 20180220 08:05:09<+wesnoth-discord-> The engine isn't supposed to distinguish between mainline and add-ons regarding space handling. 20180220 08:06:48<+wesnoth-discord-> I mean, convention wise. 20180220 08:07:46<+wesnoth-discord-> Might be a convention that just emerged (but no one is trying to enforce). 20180220 08:08:27<+wesnoth-discord-> Okay, good, needed to make sure that the reptilians didn't pulverise me for adding spaces to my unit names. 20180220 08:08:49<+wesnoth-discord-> Ah, thanks. 20180220 08:33:42<+wesnoth-discord-> Of course if a string macro argument has spaces you need to surround it with quotes, because otherwise it would be seen as an extra macro argument. Alternatively you can surround it with parenthesis. A third way is to give the string its own macro: {MACRO_HAS_1ARG {MY_STRING_WITH_SPACES}} 20180220 08:34:41<+wesnoth-discord-> {MACRO_HAS_1ARG (My String With Spaces)} 20180220 08:38:23<+wesnoth-discord-> Ok 20180220 08:38:54<+wesnoth-discord-> and of course: {MACRO_HAS_1ARG "My String With Spaces"}... AFAIK this style never worked with quotes omitted 20180220 08:56:37<+wesnoth-discord-> Acknowledged (have moved on to other issues) 20180220 09:12:36-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has joined #wesnoth 20180220 09:42:35-!- vladimirslavik [vslavik@nat/redhat/x-vzcpeysleaipdvwu] has joined #wesnoth 20180220 09:45:40-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth 20180220 11:00:22< janebot> Tweet (by @Wesnoth) Very interesting tabletop card game! They're using some of Wesnoth's art for their prototype, but if they get fundeโ€ฆ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/965903951932538880 [ https://twitter.com/Wesnoth/status/965903951932538880 ] 20180220 11:00:36<+wesnoth-discord-> @LordBob 20180220 11:05:47<+wesnoth-discord-> That's Oldric there. 20180220 11:07:07<+wesnoth-discord-> https://github.com/davewx7/citadel/blob/master/images/portraits/oldric-lord-of-the-hold.png 20180220 11:08:01<+wesnoth-discord-> https://github.com/davewx7/citadel/blob/master/images/portraits/toughness.png 20180220 11:08:46<+wesnoth-discord-> well, yes. lordbob also does art for Argentum Age (citadel) 20180220 11:13:26<+wesnoth-discord-> Quite some. And impressive! 20180220 11:19:25<+wesnoth-discord-> Download Argentum Age! http://argentumage.com 20180220 12:00:54-!- vslavik [vslavik@nat/redhat/x-easmkzwtleipejgs] has joined #wesnoth 20180220 12:02:17-!- vladimirslavik [vslavik@nat/redhat/x-vzcpeysleaipdvwu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20180220 12:03:58-!- vladimirslavik [vslavik@nat/redhat/x-rfrczfmwdleqfifu] has joined #wesnoth 20180220 12:05:30-!- vladimirslavik [vslavik@nat/redhat/x-rfrczfmwdleqfifu] has quit [Client Quit] 20180220 12:05:59-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180220 12:22:20-!- vslavik__ [vslavik@nat/redhat/x-iafavglhlkejrgcu] has joined #wesnoth 20180220 12:24:27-!- vslavik [vslavik@nat/redhat/x-easmkzwtleipejgs] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20180220 12:51:11-!- Haudegen [~quassel@212-186-77-29.static.upcbusiness.at] has joined #wesnoth 20180220 12:56:36<+wesnoth-discord-> @Not Hamel True! Elves are technically taller than most races haha. Yeah sure, but they are skinny, and like dwarves are a quarter as tall as an elf, but stronger and more mature lol 20180220 12:56:59<+wesnoth-discord-> physically and battle-readily mature 20180220 12:57:15<+wesnoth-discord-> probably mentally too xD 20180220 12:58:02<+wesnoth-discord-> I just picture elves as skinny people with gigantism and I picture them as primitive and outlandish lol 20180220 13:08:48<+wesnoth-discord-> but elves are numerous 20180220 13:11:35<+wesnoth-discord-> @Vultraz thanks a lot ! 20180220 13:15:34<+wesnoth-discord-> @galegosimpatico the placeholder image for the box art is indeed from Argentum Age. A while ago I'd offered to provide the scenery of Oldric as a standalone artwork ; Tyson, who runs the Kickstarter, found it in my portfolio and got in touch with David to ask if he could use it. 20180220 13:41:53<+wesnoth-discord-> well I guess elves are numerous 20180220 13:41:57<+wesnoth-discord-> lol 20180220 14:34:18-!- vslavik [vslavik@nat/redhat/x-ekuheizzaeehzxdj] has joined #wesnoth 20180220 14:36:57-!- vslavik__ [vslavik@nat/redhat/x-iafavglhlkejrgcu] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20180220 14:41:09-!- vultraz [uid24821@wesnoth/developer/vultraz] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 20180220 14:50:02-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180220 14:50:12-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20180220 15:14:51-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180220 15:15:02-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20180220 15:25:20-!- vslavik__ [vslavik@nat/redhat/x-phyndmyxphixryhb] has joined #wesnoth 20180220 15:27:52-!- vslavik [vslavik@nat/redhat/x-ekuheizzaeehzxdj] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20180220 16:18:21-!- vultraz [uid24821@wesnoth/developer/vultraz] has joined #wesnoth 20180220 16:29:30-!- Bhoren [~Bhoren_wh@2a01:e0a:c:2150:105f:f68e:6425:dac0] has joined #wesnoth 20180220 16:44:34-!- Haudegen [~quassel@212-186-77-29.static.upcbusiness.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180220 16:48:07<+wesnoth-discord-> @Zerovirus Are you interested in helping me out with a dwarven ballista sprite for my drake campaign ( https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=600007#p600007 )? The campaign is finished and playable, but I still intend to improve it. And your sprite skills would do me a great favor 20180220 17:01:13<+wesnoth-discord-> Does someone know what the variable $teleport_unit stores? 20180220 17:04:38<+wesnoth-discord-> https://wiki.wesnoth.org/AbilitiesWML#Extra_tags_used_by_the_.5Bteleport.5D_ability 20180220 17:05:43<+wesnoth-discord-> "You may use $teleport_unit inside the tunnel tag for filtering purposes." 20180220 17:11:29<+wesnoth-discord-> @Kwandulin sure, I guess. Havenโ€™t done pixelart in a few months, but my skills probably arenโ€™t all totally gone! Whatโ€™re you using as the placeholder right now? 20180220 17:30:41<+wesnoth-discord-> https://units.wesnoth.org/trunk/Ashen_Hearts/en_US/Clockwork%20Ballista.html An edit of your clockwork stuff. The colours are perfectly fine, but that thing does not look like a ballista at all...maybe you can come up with something cooler and bigger 20180220 18:12:47-!- vslavik__ [vslavik@nat/redhat/x-phyndmyxphixryhb] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20180220 18:25:57-!- Bonobo [~Bonobo@61.68.156.44] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20180220 18:40:35-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has joined #wesnoth 20180220 19:40:33-!- claymore [~claymore@unaffiliated/claymore] has joined #wesnoth 20180220 20:05:46-!- claymore [~claymore@unaffiliated/claymore] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20180220 20:13:07<+wesnoth-discord-> welp im almost done with UTBS, just one mission i think 20180220 20:13:11<+wesnoth-discord-> good campaign overall 20180220 20:13:20<+wesnoth-discord-> definetly tough, like i heard 20180220 20:13:25<+wesnoth-discord-> but fun 20180220 20:14:11<+wesnoth-discord-> Out of curiosity, did you side with the Trolls or the Dwarves? 20180220 20:14:14<+wesnoth-discord-> Trolls 20180220 20:14:17<+wesnoth-discord-> Nog is awesome 20180220 20:16:23<+wesnoth-discord-> Yeah, he is quite helpful. 20180220 20:16:43<+wesnoth-discord-> I've also heard the Troll missions are considerably easier. 20180220 20:29:36<+wesnoth-discord-> it is 20180220 20:29:38<+wesnoth-discord-> i tried both 20180220 20:29:50<+wesnoth-discord-> dwarves, while holding their ground at times werent as good 20180220 20:30:04<+wesnoth-discord-> plus the troll is more awesome 20180220 20:30:06<+wesnoth-discord-> Yay, have a dwarf guard 20180220 20:30:17<+wesnoth-discord-> That'll help a lot against undead 20180220 20:30:40<+wesnoth-discord-> And yeah, forget trying to fight through an AoE lava cavern 20180220 20:31:49<+wesnoth-discord-> I did enjoy fighting with the Dwarves more, personally. 20180220 20:32:05<+wesnoth-discord-> And I liked the Stalwart with his Steadfast ability. 20180220 20:32:17<+wesnoth-discord-> That helped with holding enemies off. 20180220 20:33:36<+wesnoth-discord-> I'd rather have regen and ability to do damage 20180220 20:34:31<+wesnoth-discord-> That does help too. 20180220 20:34:54<+wesnoth-discord-> I think it may be mainly caused by I have a bias towards Dwarves, 20180220 20:35:18<+wesnoth-discord-> They are my favorite fantasy race in tolkienesque stories. 20180220 21:08:03-!- vultraz [uid24821@wesnoth/developer/vultraz] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 20180220 21:20:12-!- Bhoren [~Bhoren_wh@2a01:e0a:c:2150:105f:f68e:6425:dac0] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20180220 21:31:49-!- vultraz [uid24821@wesnoth/developer/vultraz] has joined #wesnoth 20180220 21:45:08-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20180220 21:57:44-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180220 21:58:02-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20180220 22:50:25-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180220 22:50:31-!- janebot_ [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20180220 22:50:34-!- janebot_ is now known as janebot 20180220 22:55:34-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180220 22:55:41-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20180220 23:04:31-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has joined #wesnoth 20180220 23:13:54-!- Ivanovic [~ivanovic@wesnoth/developer/ivanovic] has quit [Quit: Disconnecting from stoned server.] 20180220 23:14:10-!- Ivanovic [~ivanovic@p579FBA67.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth 20180220 23:36:25-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20180220 23:46:27-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180220 23:46:27-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth --- Log closed Wed Feb 21 00:00:17 2018