--- Log opened Mon Mar 19 00:00:00 2018
--- Day changed Mon Mar 19 2018
20180319 00:00:00< irker713> wesnoth: Celtic Minstrel wesnoth:master b5c0da9e37dd / src/gui/dialogs/help_browser.cpp: Help Browser: Don't double-list a section's root topic https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/b5c0da9e37ddf07828a564776b73b932deba3aad
20180319 00:00:02< irker713> wesnoth: Celtic Minstrel wesnoth:master 5d918cd5a50b / src/ (gui/dialogs/help_browser.cpp gui/dialogs/help_browser.hpp help/help.cpp): Help Browser: Support arbitrary initial topic https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/5d918cd5a50bb823e1ded5f184d3a0d786bc7f49
20180319 00:00:04< irker713> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master 75639bafd19b / data/gui/window/help_browser.cfg: Help Browser: fixup topic title layout https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/75639bafd19b6a7668f47f8089a10b3388eaa08c
20180319 00:00:07< irker713> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master 5193c7e7bf6a / data/gui/window/help_browser.cfg: Help Browser: removed help topic padding https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/5193c7e7bf6af320d04e5b8d50451aa2048f8f4d
20180319 00:00:10< irker713> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master 1167e3e78ba6 / / (3 files in 3 dirs): Some build fixups to reflect changes since the help commits were originally made https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/1167e3e78ba6fcbad42ac42ccf888bb11c5e7e43
20180319 00:00:13< irker713> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master 68f4bd14d6ea / src/gui/core/canvas.cpp: Used std::exchange for a thing https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/68f4bd14d6eaf546cec3c49d04b14b5d50ac6ebd
20180319 00:00:16< irker713> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master 4225e1aa7c35 / src/help/help.cpp: Small build fixup https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/4225e1aa7c35f8133745c7d81c77fa06f32156dd
20180319 00:00:21< celticminstrel> What's std::exchange?
20180319 00:00:40< vultraz> a = b; b = something else;
20180319 00:00:51< Ravana_> same for me, I also expected draft be available before build
20180319 00:01:05< celticminstrel> BTW, where can I get the build?
20180319 00:01:10< vultraz> sourceforge
20180319 00:01:22< celticminstrel> Bah. Okay, I'll go find it myself.
20180319 00:01:29< Ravana_> I used last draft and incremented numbers
20180319 00:01:30< celticminstrel> wesnoth.sf.net right?
20180319 00:01:42< vultraz> https://sourceforge.net/projects/wesnoth/files/wesnoth/wesnoth-1.13.12/
20180319 00:13:33< vultraz> hm.
20180319 00:13:36< vultraz> topic expansionbroken
20180319 00:13:46< vultraz> it's not expanding anything
20180319 00:16:16< celticminstrel> Did you try clicking both the topic and the book? In GUI1 only the latter worked.
20180319 00:16:29< vultraz> yes
20180319 00:16:36< vultraz> the book opens, but no new nodes appear..
20180319 00:17:47< celticminstrel> All of a sudden I'm getting this error when I try to run it: "The procedure entry point inflateReset1 could not be located in the dynamic link library zlib1.dll". Gonna try full rebuild, hope that fixes it...
20180319 00:18:14< celticminstrel> Also, fun fact: before downloading the linked version, I did not have Wesnoth installed on that computer.
20180319 00:18:39< gfgtdf> didn't you just said you gave up on building it ?
20180319 00:19:05< celticminstrel> That was a release build, though it was actually part of the reason I gave up. This was the debug build.
20180319 00:19:23< celticminstrel> And I just had it building so that when I wanted to get back to it next I wouldn't have to rebuild everything.
20180319 00:19:35< gfgtdf> aren't debug builds painfully slow ?
20180319 00:20:37< celticminstrel> That's why I wanted a release build in the first place.
20180319 00:23:35< irker713> wesnoth/wesnoth:master Victor Sergienko acf4213b4f Wesnoth codesigning script AppVeyor: vs2015/Release Failed
20180319 00:23:36< irker713> Details: https://ci.appveyor.com/project/wesnoth/wesnoth-7lnpw/build/Wesnoth-VS2015-master-2021
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20180319 00:37:41< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#17036 (master - 4225e1a : Charles Dang): The build failed.
20180319 00:37:41< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/355162793
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20180319 00:57:11< irker713> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master fc2a58f69351 / src/ (326 files in 39 dirs): Use std::size_t everywhere instead of plain size_t https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/fc2a58f6935176b70a035d3e1c03080f79687f94
20180319 00:57:25< celticminstrel> Ugh.
20180319 00:57:37< vultraz> TadCarlucci advised it
20180319 00:59:35< irker713> wesnoth/wesnoth:master Victor Sergienko e96985ff32 Wesnoth codesigning script AppVeyor: vs2017/Release Failed
20180319 00:59:36< irker713> Details: https://ci.appveyor.com/project/wesnoth/wesnoth-605wt/build/Wesnoth-VS2017-master-1725
20180319 01:00:23< TadCarlucci> If you're "using std;" (gak!) then I guess it's ok. But there should not be a private size_t and this is C++, not C, so we should be using the C++ std:: namespace stuff.
20180319 01:02:00< TadCarlucci> But, then, I have a feeling that a lot of places we use size_t when unsigned or unsigned long would be more appropriate, even if that means we occasionally convert a size_t thing into an unsigned thing.
20180319 01:03:26 * celticminstrel assumes you mean "using namespace std".
20180319 01:03:49< celticminstrel> In my own code I generally put that in most of the source files but not in the headers.
20180319 01:07:54< celticminstrel> A full rebuild fixed the zlib error, at least.
20180319 01:08:26< celticminstrel> So that means I'm still equipped to work on the 1.14 branch but need a bit more setup for master (since it won't link).
20180319 01:09:49< TadCarlucci> Yep. Missing source files in the project. That's the only down-side to VS Code .. you have to wait or hand-edit the project files.
20180319 01:11:10< celticminstrel> No, it was a missing .lib
20180319 01:11:16< celticminstrel> boost_date_time
20180319 01:12:40< celticminstrel> Oh, I think what it is is that I need to redownload aquileia/external.
20180319 01:12:50< celticminstrel> I only have the vc120 versions but need the vc140 versions.
20180319 01:12:59< vultraz> you mean checkout a new branch?
20180319 01:13:02< celticminstrel> So if that's all it is, I can easily fix it.
20180319 01:13:05< celticminstrel> vultraz: What?
20180319 01:13:46< vultraz> wait, did you clone the repo?
20180319 01:13:51< vultraz> or just download a snapshot
20180319 01:14:11< celticminstrel> For aquileia/external? Pretty sure I downloaded a snapshot.
20180319 01:15:03< vultraz> you should get a clone
20180319 01:15:13< vultraz> so you can ge updated stuff
20180319 01:15:32< celticminstrel> TBH I'd rather come up with a way to not need it at all.
20180319 01:15:47< vultraz> well
20180319 01:15:59< vultraz> I'm going to move the stuff to a repo under wesnoth/ soon
20180319 01:16:33< celticminstrel> That doesn't help in the slightest.
20180319 01:16:57< celticminstrel> I just don't like the idea of downloading a dependency pack.
20180319 01:17:24< vultraz> But how else will you build :|
20180319 01:17:43< vultraz> You will always need these
20180319 01:17:58< celticminstrel> Uh, you could, y'know, install the dependencies in a more normal manner?
20180319 01:18:09< celticminstrel> In a central location where any project can see them?
20180319 01:18:21< vultraz> bit difficult
20180319 01:18:27< celticminstrel> Not really?
20180319 01:19:16< Soliton> you'd need an os with a package manager. :-P
20180319 01:19:27< Soliton> sounds like windows is getting there though.
20180319 01:20:12< shadowm> Is it?
20180319 01:21:06< shadowm> (*Not* counting the Linux subsystem on Windows.)
20180319 01:21:10< celticminstrel> https://github.com/Microsoft/vcpkg
20180319 01:21:37< vultraz> is that the thing someone mentioned the other day?
20180319 01:21:37< celticminstrel> BTW, I just checked and it has all of Wesnoth's required dependencies. It doesn't have readline or fribidi AFAICT.
20180319 01:21:48< celticminstrel> If by someone you mean me, then yes.
20180319 01:22:37< vultraz> we don't build with either of those anyway
20180319 01:22:39< vultraz> on windows
20180319 01:22:52< celticminstrel> Really? I thought loonycyborg did build with readline.
20180319 01:22:59< vultraz> huh
20180319 01:23:02< celticminstrel> No idea about fribidi though, it might not be needed at all on Windows.
20180319 01:23:07< vultraz> where does it list what packages it has?
20180319 01:23:23< celticminstrel> I have it installed so I used its search command.
20180319 01:23:30< vultraz> ah
20180319 01:23:35< vultraz> how often are they updated?
20180319 01:23:37< vultraz> and are they 64 bit?
20180319 01:23:38< celticminstrel> (Someone converted the Blades of Exile project to use it recently.)
20180319 01:23:43< celticminstrel> I have no idea about that.
20180319 01:23:52< celticminstrel> I assume 64-bit is available.
20180319 01:23:59< vultraz> we often update aquelia/external with the latest SDL and Boost libs as they come out
20180319 01:24:13< celticminstrel> Which is kinda silly as well, but whatever.
20180319 01:24:22< shadowm> fribidi isn't needed on any platform unless you want RTL support on GUI1/SDL_ttf paths, and even then I believe said support is kind of broken.
20180319 01:24:40< celticminstrel> I mean, I guess it's fine for master.
20180319 01:24:49< celticminstrel> Oh, so in that case we can actually remove that from the INSTALL?
20180319 01:24:55< shadowm> readline is needed for tab-completion on the Lua console dialog, which is kind of a big shiny thing and therefore important for people who are into big shiny things.
20180319 01:25:04< celticminstrel> Since GUI1 is like 99% gone by now anyway.
20180319 01:25:23< vultraz> I remember a big argument between iceiceice and gfgtdf about readline a few years ago
20180319 01:25:45< vultraz> celticminstrel: what version of boost has it?
20180319 01:25:49< celticminstrel> Wait, is readline really used for tab-completion? Is that even possible? I thought it was just for history.
20180319 01:26:01< celticminstrel> vultraz: When I installed Boost with it a week or two ago, it was 1.66.
20180319 01:26:06< vultraz> oooo
20180319 01:26:08< celticminstrel> I know this because I just checked today.
20180319 01:26:12< vultraz> and sdl?
20180319 01:26:19< celticminstrel> Uh, one sec.
20180319 01:26:27< vultraz> does it also have sdl_image and mixer?
20180319 01:26:38< celticminstrel> 2.0.8
20180319 01:26:44< celticminstrel> Pango 1.40
20180319 01:27:03< vultraz> you have convinced me this is a good thing
20180319 01:27:05< celticminstrel> It does have image and mixer.
20180319 01:27:12< celticminstrel> There's a downside though.
20180319 01:27:14< shadowm> celticminstrel: history then. I don't know, both things sound like the same thing in my head.
20180319 01:27:23< irker713> wesnoth/wesnoth:l1.14 Gunter Labes 7ca7ed0e4f Enable lobby message logging again AppVeyor: All builds passed
20180319 01:27:36< celticminstrel> But that downside should be remediable with a bootstrap script or similar that can be run once by new contributors.
20180319 01:27:50< gfgtdf> readline and history are the same here.
20180319 01:27:51< vultraz> what is th downside?
20180319 01:27:58< celticminstrel> Setting it up.
20180319 01:28:00< shadowm> If it's really history and not tab-completion I'd be more than a bit confused though.
20180319 01:28:23< vultraz> celticminstrel: it looks pretty simple though
20180319 01:28:52< celticminstrel> Yeah, it's not too complicated, but it does require the command-line and typing out a bunch of package names.
20180319 01:29:09< vultraz> we could easily provides steps in INSTALL
20180319 01:29:22< vultraz> in fact, I think we should definitely do so
20180319 01:29:26< celticminstrel> Yeah, you could do one better. You could provide a batch-file that does it all for .you.
20180319 01:30:05< irker713> wesnoth/wesnoth:master Charles Dang fc2a58f693 Use std::size_t everywhere instead of pl AppVeyor: vs2015/Release Failed
20180319 01:30:06< irker713> Details: https://ci.appveyor.com/project/wesnoth/wesnoth-7lnpw/build/Wesnoth-VS2015-master-2024
20180319 01:30:26< celticminstrel> Not sure it belongs in INSTALL though, I'd probably put it here instead: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/blob/master/projectfiles/VC14/README.md
20180319 01:30:55< celticminstrel> ...wow that's incredibly out-of-date though.
20180319 01:30:56< vultraz> there's no VC15 readme
20180319 01:30:57< vultraz> huh
20180319 01:31:07< vultraz> yeah...
20180319 01:31:08< vultraz> it is
20180319 01:31:12< vultraz> looks like it's from the wiki
20180319 01:31:13< vultraz> geez
20180319 01:31:24< vultraz> yeah this is useless
20180319 01:31:28< celticminstrel> XD
20180319 01:31:46< celticminstrel> Still, I'd say it's the best place to put MSVC-specific instructions.
20180319 01:32:02< celticminstrel> The Xcode project also has its own README.
20180319 01:32:27< vultraz> under projectfiles/VC*?
20180319 01:32:35< celticminstrel> Speaking of which, it's also a little out-of-date.
20180319 01:32:47< celticminstrel> vultraz: The linked file.
20180319 01:33:07< celticminstrel> Since when did the Xcode campaignd build not work?
20180319 01:33:09< vultraz> Ah yes
20180319 01:33:27< vultraz> Wait, who added a VC14 folder?
20180319 01:33:33< celticminstrel> Jyrki did.
20180319 01:33:40< vultraz> Earlier?
20180319 01:33:47< celticminstrel> Yeah? Before the a_r merge.
20180319 01:33:50< vultraz> Ah
20180319 01:33:58< vultraz> Ok yeah we definitely need update that readme
20180319 01:34:53< celticminstrel> Pretty sure the campaignd build does work in Xcode; at least it did when I was still using Xcode IIRC.
20180319 01:35:10< vultraz> Where is it not working?
20180319 01:35:11< celticminstrel> Might want to get hrubymar to update the Xcode readme too, and also check if the campaignd build works.
20180319 01:35:20< celticminstrel> What?
20180319 01:35:41< vultraz> You said campaignd on Xcode isn’t working
20180319 01:35:50< celticminstrel> According to the Xcode README.
20180319 01:36:20< celticminstrel> Ahaha, it advocates reusing the old disk images instead of the silly dmgCanvas thing. XD
20180319 01:36:42< celticminstrel> I wonder if that'd become a problem if we want to change the background? I guess not, you can do that in the Finder...
20180319 01:37:46< vultraz> Is that readme up to date
20180319 01:37:59< celticminstrel> Somewhat. It's up-to-date for 1.13.12.
20180319 01:38:12< celticminstrel> Or wait.
20180319 01:38:19< celticminstrel> I guess maybe not quite, but whatever, close enough.
20180319 01:38:49< celticminstrel> Main issue is claiming Xcode 4 and OSX 10.7 work.
20180319 01:38:55< celticminstrel> They don't.
20180319 01:39:04< celticminstrel> I'd assume Xcode 5 and OSX 10.8 are fine.
20180319 01:42:41< vultraz> Aren’t we at Xcode 9?
20180319 01:43:03< celticminstrel> I have no idea.
20180319 01:43:15< celticminstrel> And I don't really care either.
20180319 01:43:29< celticminstrel> I was using Xcode 4. It worked for awhile.
20180319 01:43:41< celticminstrel> Then it stopped working and I started using Windows instead for Wesnoth work.
20180319 01:44:06< celticminstrel> Since Xcode 4 worked relatively recently, I would assume Xcode 5 would still work. I could be wrong.
20180319 01:45:00< celticminstrel> Since it's the stable branch, it wouldn't be a good idea to bump requirements more than is absolutely necessary. If you want to bump them a little further on the master branch, that would be okay, though even then I'd recommend not bumping to the absolute latest.
20180319 01:45:35< celticminstrel> Instead it should be bumped only to the minimum Xcode version that supports C++14, and the minumum OSX version that that Xcode version can run on.
20180319 01:46:08< vultraz> We recently bumped the min to 10.8
20180319 01:46:22< vultraz> Because of some issues building with 10.7 iirc?
20180319 01:46:37< celticminstrel> Yeah, but the Xcode README still says 10.7.
20180319 01:47:14< celticminstrel> Hmm, I might be able to get a new Mac as early as June if I'm lucky...
20180319 01:47:51< celticminstrel> Or at least by the end of the year.
20180319 01:47:57< celticminstrel> It's long overdue, certainly.
20180319 01:48:13< celticminstrel> It'll let me bump this one back to 10.6 so I can use PPC apps though.
20180319 01:48:37< celticminstrel> Not that I intend to use them a lot, I just have some old stuff that was saved with PPC apps that I'd like to recover.
20180319 01:48:55< vultraz> Do you intend to buy the $5000 Mac?
20180319 01:49:07< celticminstrel> (I mean I can always do that just by rebooting the computer - I still have 10.6 on a different partition - but that's a real pain.)
20180319 01:49:17< celticminstrel> I don't know. Depends on factors.
20180319 01:49:28< celticminstrel> What do you mean by "the $5000 Mac"?
20180319 01:49:53< celticminstrel> I dislike the iMac line because of the built-in monitor, and the Mac Mini line just isn't that good.
20180319 01:53:23< celticminstrel> If I'd had money back then, I might've gotten a new Mac around 2013, but I didn't, and by now that one's kinda old and not really worth it anymore.
20180319 01:55:21< celticminstrel> I heard 10.8 vastly improved the performance of OSX, so I'm hoping that they'll still outperform Windows in terms of responsiveness.
20180319 01:55:55< celticminstrel> Windows 10 is extremely sluggish. Windows 7 is probably better in that respect, but still not that great.
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20180319 01:56:29< celticminstrel> It seems that newer computers are ironically slower than older ones, on average.
20180319 02:01:26< vultraz> The new Mac Pro
20180319 02:03:45< vultraz> Or actually Nkt that maybe
20180319 02:03:50< TadCarlucci> I've been saying that since Microsoft went from 4 floppies to a CD for the C compiler for MS-DOS. It's like the whole point of improving hardware performance is so the vendors can make our programs bigger and slower. I'd not be surprised an old IBM PC Model 1 compiling a C program on MS-DOS in 1985 outperforms a moderm Intel PC runing Windows 10 and Visual Studio compiling the same program.
20180319 02:04:19< vultraz> iMac Pro
20180319 02:05:20< vultraz> celticminstrel: this https://www.apple.com/imac-pro/
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20180319 02:09:49< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#17037 (master - fc2a58f : Charles Dang): The build has errored.
20180319 02:09:49< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/355173172
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20180319 02:52:25< celticminstrel> vultraz: Built-in monitor, so no. I don't even want a monitor, I'm quite happy with my current 1920x1080 and secondary 1280x1024; I wouldn't say no to an upgrade mind you, but I have no need for one, so it's low priority.
20180319 02:52:54< celticminstrel> I suppose an HD monitor could be nice (I think these ones aren't), but it really doesn't matter.
20180319 02:53:10< celticminstrel> Oh wait, I think the main monitor is HD.
20180319 02:53:31< celticminstrel> Pretty sure the secondary isn't though.
20180319 02:54:48< celticminstrel> I do want the new Mac Pro though - the rumoured one, that is.
20180319 02:55:42< celticminstrel> And re: TadCarlucci's comment - ISTR reading something comparing an Apple II with modern hardware and finding the Apple II to be more responsive.
20180319 02:55:59< celticminstrel> This is regarding UI responsiveness IIUC, not stuff like compile times, but still.
20180319 02:56:28< celticminstrel> It's like they figure the hardware can handle it so they don't bother with optimization.
20180319 02:56:35< celticminstrel> And as a result it ends up being worse.
20180319 02:57:59< TadCarlucci> I call it the Kitchen-Sink Problem. With new hardware they find they can do more, so they add everything you never use from under the kitchen sink simnply because they can.
20180319 02:58:11< celticminstrel> Hmm, maybe I'll implement this soon... https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=37419
20180319 03:01:41< celticminstrel> On a related note, it'd be nice if we could explicitly define custom damage types so that we could even do away with SPECIAL_NOTE_ARCANE in favour of a special_note key in a [damage_type] tag...
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20180319 03:37:36< celticminstrel> vultraz: Any plans to do this? https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=47666
20180319 03:37:47< celticminstrel> We have most of the required image already, after all.
20180319 03:37:52< celticminstrel> ^imagea
20180319 03:37:55< celticminstrel> ^mages
20180319 03:37:57< celticminstrel> ...
20180319 03:38:00< celticminstrel> I CANNOT TYPE
20180319 03:38:05< celticminstrel> ^images
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20180319 04:30:14< wedge009> It happens.
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20180319 04:33:24< wedge009> Regarding program sizes - it's a matter of economics. These days (shorter) development time is more cost-effective than minimising disk space and/or optimising application performance. I'm sure like many of you, I remember the days of tiny assembler programs mere kilobytes large doing plenty of impressive stuff.
20180319 04:34:13< celticminstrel> Maybe Tad was talking about size, but I wasn't...
20180319 04:34:31< celticminstrel> Performance is important.
20180319 04:34:41< wedge009> I agree.
20180319 04:34:47< celticminstrel> When it takes thirty seconds for the program to respond, that's not good.
20180319 04:35:00< wedge009> There's a lot of bloat in software platforms nowadays.
20180319 04:35:22< wedge009> But not many would make the effort to trim and optimise for fear of last-minute breakages.
20180319 04:39:05< celticminstrel> That's the problem.
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20180319 04:53:53< vultraz> celticminstrel: but that's a 5K monitor!
20180319 04:54:07< celticminstrel> ???
20180319 04:54:21< vultraz> about monitors
20180319 04:54:35< celticminstrel> ???
20180319 04:54:49< vultraz> "I suppose an HD monitor could be nice (I think these ones aren't), but it really doesn't matter."
20180319 04:55:20< celticminstrel> I have no idea where you pulled "5K" from but I think you didn't read the rest of what I said.
20180319 04:56:06< vultraz> the built-in monitor with the iMac Pro
20180319 04:56:31< celticminstrel> What the heck even is 5K.
20180319 04:56:43< celticminstrel> But anyway, I don't care how good a monitor is, I don't want it built-in.
20180319 04:56:48< vultraz> higher resolution than 4k?
20180319 04:57:20< celticminstrel> (Which is incidentally pretty much the same reason why I'll probably never buy a TV again.)
20180319 04:57:40< vultraz> anyway no, I don't have plans to do that trait thing right now
20180319 04:58:06< celticminstrel> What was the trait thing again
20180319 04:58:19< vultraz> iconized traits
20180319 05:07:08< celticminstrel> Oh right.
20180319 05:15:14< celticminstrel> The reason I was asking is I compiled a list of old forum threads that I had posted in suggesting things that I thought were good ideas.
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20180319 05:15:19< irker117> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master bb3d5b9a9d24 / projectfiles/VC14/ (wesnoth.vcxproj wesnoth.vcxproj.filters): Updated VS projectfile for recent changes https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/bb3d5b9a9d247c07238af9817356df0dd8fecccf
20180319 05:15:25< vultraz> it might still be worth doin
20180319 05:15:26< vultraz> g
20180319 05:15:42< celticminstrel> I think it could be done in a way that's theme-dependent though.
20180319 05:16:24< celticminstrel> So that people who really prefer the text-based version can still use it.
20180319 05:16:52< vultraz> perhaps
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20180319 05:23:34< irker117> wesnoth/wesnoth:master Victor Sergienko acf4213b4f Wesnoth codesigning script AppVeyor: 1/2 builds failed
20180319 05:23:35< irker117> Details vs2015/Release: https://ci.appveyor.com/project/wesnoth/wesnoth-7lnpw/build/Wesnoth-VS2015-master-2021
20180319 05:55:10< irker117> wesnoth/wesnoth:master Charles Dang bb3d5b9a9d Updated VS projectfile for recent change AppVeyor: vs2015/Release Failed
20180319 05:55:11< irker117> Details: https://ci.appveyor.com/project/wesnoth/wesnoth-7lnpw/build/Wesnoth-VS2015-master-2025
20180319 05:59:36< irker117> wesnoth/wesnoth:master Victor Sergienko e96985ff32 Wesnoth codesigning script AppVeyor: 1/2 builds failed
20180319 05:59:37< irker117> Details vs2017/Release: https://ci.appveyor.com/project/wesnoth/wesnoth-605wt/build/Wesnoth-VS2017-master-1725
20180319 06:04:13< irker117> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master 9063736fd4ea / src/ (display.cpp display.hpp whiteboard/attack.cpp): Display: removed drawing_queue_ member https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/9063736fd4ea10165e5f17bb41391ef2c03555e7
20180319 06:04:16< irker117> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master ace03abef5e0 / src/ (display.cpp display.hpp): Display: removed unused redraw_everything function https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/ace03abef5e07ce8367efdc49aef0dd7bf5122bf
20180319 06:04:19< irker117> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master d4a2ddb68885 / src/display.cpp: Display: disabled all in-game theme drawing https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/d4a2ddb688858d0ba67a6f94a92ddd7441903426
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20180319 06:30:05< irker117> wesnoth/wesnoth:master Charles Dang fc2a58f693 Use std::size_t everywhere instead of pl AppVeyor: 2/4 builds failed
20180319 06:30:06< irker117> Details vs2015/Release: https://ci.appveyor.com/project/wesnoth/wesnoth-7lnpw/build/Wesnoth-VS2015-master-2024
20180319 06:30:07< irker117> Details vs2017/Release: https://ci.appveyor.com/project/wesnoth/wesnoth-605wt/build/Wesnoth-VS2017-master-1728
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20180319 06:49:53< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#17038 (master - d4a2ddb : Charles Dang): The build failed.
20180319 06:49:53< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/355225690
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20180319 06:49:56< irker117> wesnoth/wesnoth:master Charles Dang d4a2ddb688 Display: disabled all in-game theme draw AppVeyor: vs2017/Release Failed
20180319 06:49:57< irker117> Details: https://ci.appveyor.com/project/wesnoth/wesnoth-605wt/build/Wesnoth-VS2017-master-1730
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20180319 07:42:11< loonycyborg> vultraz: celticminstrel: I have to use readline for windows builds too. It's needed to make memory of past commands in various command windows work.
20180319 07:42:18< loonycyborg> I'm not using fribidi though
20180319 08:32:55-!- vn971 [~vasya@94.158.103.15] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20180319 09:00:53< Soliton> vn971: i've fixed the replay list for the days you reported btw. we've lost quite a few due to server issues though.
20180319 09:01:59< vn971> Soliton: thanks for fixing!
20180319 09:03:00< vn971> // was an "observer" on elections in Russia yesterday, whole day.
20180319 09:10:57< loonycyborg> saw anything interesting? :P
20180319 09:19:01< vn971> loonycyborg: kind of. Nothing illegal really caught on my sector. But a neighbour one which didn't have any (real) observers had a 96% voting presence, in contrast to 50% on my sector.:( It is apparent that lots of illegal things happened around, but nothing I could catch on my sector at least.
20180319 09:19:49< loonycyborg> yeah yeah, lots of illegal things nobody saw
20180319 09:19:55< loonycyborg> like invisible pink unicorn
20180319 09:23:33< loonycyborg> Absolutely none of candidates represent me in any way. I'm tired of this circus: ruling party without any ideology other than aping the West and opposition without any ideology other than
20180319 09:23:50< loonycyborg> being 100% uncooperative but still aping the West
20180319 09:24:03< loonycyborg> with this circus therre's absolutely no reason to do anything illegal
20180319 09:24:13< loonycyborg> So I simply don't believe in it
20180319 09:33:20< vn971> loonycyborg: I answered whether _I_ saw anything illegal, not whether anybody saw. There's a lot of illegal voting forgery reported, observed, video-taped etc in other sectors. Really, lots of. I can send in links if you want. Also, do you believe that one sector has 50% voting presence and 0.48% votes taken at home, and another sector in same city has 96% voting presence and 65.59% of all people decided to take votes at home? This 
20180319 09:33:20< vn971> stats is from the city where I observed specifically. Do you believe everything was legal on these two sectors?
20180319 09:34:46< vn971> again, 8 people out of 1650 taking home votes. And 509 people out of 776 on another sector.
20180319 09:36:41< vn971> I was an observer on the 8-out-of-1650 sector as you might have guessed.
20180319 09:36:58< loonycyborg> I expect some variations among different sectors
20180319 09:37:08< loonycyborg> maybe even great ones
20180319 09:37:29< loonycyborg> especially if they're in very different neignborhoods
20180319 09:38:19< loonycyborg> but like I said even if there was any cheating it was dumb waste of time
20180319 09:39:13-!- new_one [~new_one@2604:a880:1:20::22e:d001] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
20180319 09:39:41< loonycyborg> I had some links about ballot thow-in captured on cameras but this led to voting there deemed invalid
20180319 09:39:49< loonycyborg> which makes it even more useless
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20180319 09:39:51< vn971> loonycyborg: both figures are from Podolsk city (south of Moscow). I try to pin point both places on map, measure distance etc. I guess it'll be around 1-2 km between the sectors.
20180319 09:40:15< vn971> * I can try to
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20180319 09:40:33< vn971> not really interested in doing that though. For me, this is enough already.
20180319 09:40:43< loonycyborg> it also depends on which kind of people live here, whether it's city vs village etc
20180319 09:42:46< vn971> loonycyborg: would it help you if I point both places on map, or you'll still stick to your stance of "invisible pink unicorn" ?
20180319 09:43:15< loonycyborg> point? how can you point an area?
20180319 09:45:23< loonycyborg> anyway map alone would tell little
20180319 09:45:30< vn971> loonycyborg: I can point to the building where voting takes place. Voting center is just the nearest school to where you "live" (are officially assigned to).
20180319 09:46:02< vn971> loonycyborg: then I think I said enough, no sense to debate further, especially on #wesnoth-dev
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20180319 09:50:54< loonycyborg> Well you said yourself you're not interested in investigating it. And one thing ticks me off: people making conjectures which hold mostly due to them not investigating something
20180319 09:51:12< loonycyborg> I myself not interested in elections for reasons above
20180319 09:51:30< loonycyborg> but I'm interested in promoting rational thought and it's not how it works
20180319 09:52:38< loonycyborg> I'm just frustrated with tendency of many people myself included waste more time on wild guessing than on investigation
20180319 09:52:46< loonycyborg> and this applies to software development too
20180319 09:54:01< vn971> loonycyborg: lol yeah, I'm not interested in investigating anything. Probably that was the reason why I woke up at 05:50 yesterday and ended up my duty at 22:40. I just think I said enough, and there's a sensible barrier after which you shouldn't give more arguments (like if you see that you won't change the opinion of the person you're talking to, and further details are not wanted by the person you're talking to).
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20180319 10:28:04< irker760> wesnoth: Sofartin wesnoth:master d584ebded602 / projectfiles/Xcode/Wesnoth.xcodeproj/project.pbxproj: Fix InfoPlist.strings encoding https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/d584ebded602a8ae5957feea2c3eb09620e87d34
20180319 10:31:11< irker760> wesnoth: Sofartin wesnoth:1.14 9d1911e79be6 / projectfiles/Xcode/Wesnoth.xcodeproj/project.pbxproj: Fix InfoPlist.strings encoding https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/9d1911e79be645e25941dbc8d929544f4b04bf27
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20180319 10:49:45< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#17040 (master - d584ebd : Sofartin): The build is still failing.
20180319 10:49:45< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/355294625
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20180319 10:55:11< irker760> wesnoth/wesnoth:master Charles Dang bb3d5b9a9d Updated VS projectfile for recent change AppVeyor: 1/2 builds failed
20180319 10:55:12< irker760> Details vs2015/Release: https://ci.appveyor.com/project/wesnoth/wesnoth-7lnpw/build/Wesnoth-VS2015-master-2025
20180319 11:09:17< irker760> wesnoth/wesnoth:master Sofartin d584ebded6 Fix InfoPlist.strings encoding AppVeyor: vs2015/Release Failed
20180319 11:09:18< irker760> Details: https://ci.appveyor.com/project/wesnoth/wesnoth-7lnpw/build/Wesnoth-VS2015-master-2028
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20180319 11:49:58< irker760> wesnoth/wesnoth:master Charles Dang d4a2ddb688 Display: disabled all in-game theme draw AppVeyor: 2/4 builds failed
20180319 11:49:59< irker760> Details vs2017/Release: https://ci.appveyor.com/project/wesnoth/wesnoth-605wt/build/Wesnoth-VS2017-master-1730
20180319 11:50:00< irker760> Details vs2015/Release: https://ci.appveyor.com/project/wesnoth/wesnoth-7lnpw/build/Wesnoth-VS2015-master-2026
20180319 11:54:33< vn971> Soliton: on a similar issue, I wonder why this page takes about 2 minutes to load:  http://replays.wesnoth.org/1.12/
20180319 11:55:33< vn971> I understand it's about 1200 directories or so, but should it be as hard as "2 minutes"?
20180319 11:55:58< vn971> is the server very low on disk io for it to take 2min ?
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20180319 12:09:50< Ravana_> if number of directories was limiting then it would already be changed to use year/month grouping like irclog
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20180319 12:11:41< vn971> Ravana_: you mean "should"? Yeah that would make some sense.
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20180319 12:12:13< Ravana_> not should - only if such change would be useful
20180319 12:12:57< vn971> Ravana_: I think doing it automatically is even harder to be honest.. There's just something wrong with 1200 simple entries taking 2 minutes to load.
20180319 12:19:10-!- gfgtdf [~chatzilla@x4e368052.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20180319 12:19:27< gfgtdf> JyrkiVesterinen: you are opposed to dropping vs2015 ?
20180319 12:19:35< JyrkiVesterinen> Yes.
20180319 12:20:26< gfgtdf> JyrkiVesterinen: but vs2015 does not support the following c++14 feature: Extended constexpr  ( N3652 )
20180319 12:20:38< JyrkiVesterinen> Is it important?
20180319 12:22:01< gfgtdf> JyrkiVesterinen: i don't know exactly, but it be nice to be able to use all c++ 14 features without thinking about which compilers uspports them.
20180319 12:22:25< gfgtdf> it also does not support "Member initializers and aggregates (N3653)"
20180319 12:23:59< JyrkiVesterinen> Hmm, I see.
20180319 12:24:21< JyrkiVesterinen> Fine. If VS2015 is the only reason why we don't have full C++14 support, I'm okay with dropping it.
20180319 12:26:21< gfgtdf> ok
20180319 12:28:18< Soliton> vn971, Ravana_: yeah, i think we need to switch to year dirs at some point, perhaps even year and month.
20180319 12:28:48< gfgtdf> hmm travis also atill uses gcc 4.8 which does not have full c++14 support
20180319 12:29:20< JyrkiVesterinen> The plan is to update Travis to Ubuntu 18.04 LTS once it's released.
20180319 12:29:30< Soliton> i wonder if something like the ladder or so links to replays.w.o so we'd break all the links..
20180319 12:29:43< JyrkiVesterinen> Ubuntu 18.04 will come with much newer GCC with full C++14 support.
20180319 12:29:51< Soliton> probably easily fixable by some rewrite rule though.
20180319 12:31:14< gfgtdf> JyrkiVesterinen: isnt ububtu 1.16 sufficient ?
20180319 12:31:38< JyrkiVesterinen> You mean 16.04?
20180319 12:32:18< gfgtdf> ah yes
20180319 12:33:11< gfgtdf> JyrkiVesterinen: https://packages.ubuntu.com/xenial/g++ says gcc 5.3 which should be enough for c++14 support.
20180319 12:33:29< JyrkiVesterinen> Hmm, indeed. Travis is currently using Ubuntu 14.04, which is outright ancient.
20180319 12:34:00< JyrkiVesterinen> I thought it was 16.04 (we shouldn't really be using 14.04 today...)
20180319 12:35:00< JyrkiVesterinen> I'll relay your message to Pentarctagon (he maintains the Docker image we use in Travis).
20180319 12:35:35< gfgtdf> ok thx
20180319 12:37:07< gfgtdf>  wesnoth/TRAVIS.md  says 16.04 though
20180319 12:37:47< gfgtdf> maybe ububtu14 is the 'server' than rund the docker image whcih is 16.04? but why shodul it then say gc4.8
20180319 12:39:57< JyrkiVesterinen> Interesting...
20180319 12:39:58< JyrkiVesterinen> https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/jobs/355294627
20180319 12:40:04< JyrkiVesterinen> $ gcc --version
20180319 12:40:04< JyrkiVesterinen> gcc (Ubuntu 4.8.4-2ubuntu1~14.04.3) 4.8.4
20180319 12:40:16< JyrkiVesterinen> g++ (Ubuntu 5.4.0-6ubuntu1~16.04.6) 5.4.0 20160609
20180319 12:40:45< JyrkiVesterinen> Is it... using GCC 4.8 together with G++ 5.4?
20180319 12:43:59< gfgtdf> no idea, my guess woudl be that the "gcc (Ubuntu 4.8.4-2ubuntu1~14.04.3) 4.8.4" ssopmehow comes from the outer system and can be ignored in which case it's all fine.. Soit sure though
20180319 12:44:13< gfgtdf> Not*
20180319 12:48:09< JyrkiVesterinen> I think you're right. The 5.4.0 is printed by our own code, within the Docker container.
20180319 12:48:35< JyrkiVesterinen> 4.8.4 is printed before a single line of our code is run. Likely Travis does it implicitly... in the host system.
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20180319 14:18:36< irker760> wesnoth: Sofartin wesnoth:master a766c00b7e79 / projectfiles/Xcode/ (README.md Wesnoth.xcodeproj/project.pbxproj): Fixed campaignd Xcode target https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/a766c00b7e79f1746c8390b0b73a76b5f4394e3e
20180319 14:23:07< irker760> wesnoth: Sofartin wesnoth:1.14 08a4981e9ed8 / projectfiles/Xcode/ (README.md Wesnoth.xcodeproj/project.pbxproj): Fixed campaignd Xcode target https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/08a4981e9ed833eb6eb900bed3698d071683370c
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20180319 14:45:46< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#17044 (master - a766c00 : Sofartin): The build is still failing.
20180319 14:45:46< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/355382899
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20180319 15:06:22< irker760> wesnoth/wesnoth:master Sofartin a766c00b7e Fixed campaignd Xcode target AppVeyor: vs2017/Release Failed
20180319 15:06:23< irker760> Details: https://ci.appveyor.com/project/wesnoth/wesnoth-605wt/build/Wesnoth-VS2017-master-1736
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20180319 15:21:22< vultraz> vn971: not particularly a fair election when *literally everyone* knew what the outcome was going to be :P
20180319 15:22:29< vn971> vultraz: even less so if the primary opponent wasn't allowed into elections with a falsified reason.
20180319 15:23:27< vultraz> indeed!
20180319 15:43:25< vn971> Question: how can I show what's going on *to observers* ?
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20180319 15:44:10< gfgtdf> assuming you talk about wesnoth: just overse your game wioth a second client.
20180319 15:44:30< vn971> Generally, what communication channels do we have with observer? For example, let's say I'm asking user a question. The user does his input. Now I want observers to be aware of what he's chosen.
20180319 15:44:56< vn971> gfgtdf: no, I mean if observers are already there, how do I show them something?
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20180319 15:45:50< vn971> is that an actually discovered way of thinking / communication channel? Anything targeting observers specifically?
20180319 15:46:04< gfgtdf> just use [message], wesnoth.message etc. the message will be shown to all users including observers (if you are ina a synced context)
20180319 15:46:30< vn971> gfgtdf: but I want to avoid showing it to player itself.
20180319 15:47:10< vn971> gfgtdf: like if the game asks side1 to chose from A, B and C. And I want to show observers that side1 has chosen B. How do I do that?
20180319 15:47:29< gfgtdf> vn971: they you need some code like "if not current_player.is_local then wesnoth.message(....) end"
20180319 15:47:31< vn971> displaying a message "side1 has chosen B" would be strange because side1 itself will have to read such message.
20180319 15:47:58< vn971> gfgtdf: that's interesting. How can I also not show it to other players though?
20180319 15:48:06< gfgtdf> wher current_player is the lua side object for the currently activ side.
20180319 15:48:21< gfgtdf> vn971: well youd need to chekc if the current client is an observer
20180319 15:49:00< vn971> gfgtdf: indeed after your simplification, yes.
20180319 15:49:12< vn971> that would be enough.
20180319 15:49:13< gfgtdf> vn971: for exampel do "local is_observer = fasle; foreach player do if player.is_local then is_observer = false end end"
20180319 15:49:34< gfgtdf> pseudocode, but diable in lua
20180319 15:49:38< gfgtdf> doable*
20180319 15:50:39< vn971> gfgtdf: nice! You're my savior :D Thanks. So basically I have to understand whether I'm observer, and just use Lua conditional logic after that. The wesnoth.message would be unconditional (not specifying sides), but won't be invoked for other sides.
20180319 15:51:19< gfgtdf> yes
20180319 15:56:15< gfgtdf> vn971: note that is_local is new in wesnoth 1.13 in 1.12 it'S called different
20180319 16:00:30< vn971> gfgtdf: yes. Also, I want to support observers _hosting the game_, so I should (and already do) use .controller == "human"
20180319 16:01:18< vn971> // gfgtdf: I wrote this helper method https://gist.github.com/vgaming/0351f83b2357a9a4e8ef335c352177f3
20180319 16:01:44< gfgtdf> for the wml its irrelecant who is the host and there are no api that can be used to figure out who is host afaik.
20180319 16:02:11< gfgtdf> vn971: are you writing for 1.13 or 1.12 ?
20180319 16:02:28< gfgtdf> ah wait, ofc the host coudl control ai sides
20180319 16:02:49< gfgtdf> in scenarios that have ai sides that it.
20180319 16:02:58< vn971> gfgtdf: I'm writing compatible to both ATM. I assumed an AI side would be considered local even on 1.13
20180319 16:03:11< vn971> yeah
20180319 16:03:32< gfgtdf> well in 1.13 controller will be "human" for both local and remote human sides.
20180319 16:03:49< vn971> sh*t.
20180319 16:03:50< gfgtdf> so you additinaly need to check side.is_local in 1.13
20180319 16:04:11< vn971> wiki didn't prepare me for this :D
20180319 16:05:16< gfgtdf> ye LuaWML/Sides seems to be outdated in that point. just added it to the 'comability changes in 1.13' forum page
20180319 16:06:40< gfgtdf> i think to support both 1.13 and 1.12 you really need to check wesnoth.game_config.version and do different checks based on that.
20180319 16:06:46< vn971> gfgtdf: I've added a note to the wiki meanwhile.
20180319 16:07:12< gfgtdf> ok thx
20180319 16:07:38< vn971> gfgtdf: or use some hacky code like `side.is_local or side.controller == "something" and ...`
20180319 16:08:04< gfgtdf> side.is_local will probaly give you an error in 1.12
20180319 16:08:36< vn971> gfgtdf: voila, ugly hack introduced:  `side.controller == "human" and not side.is_local`    this should work.
20180319 16:09:17< irker760> wesnoth/wesnoth:master Sofartin d584ebded6 Fix InfoPlist.strings encoding AppVeyor: 2/4 builds failed
20180319 16:09:18< irker760> Details vs2015/Release: https://ci.appveyor.com/project/wesnoth/wesnoth-7lnpw/build/Wesnoth-VS2015-master-2028
20180319 16:09:19< irker760> Details vs2017/Release: https://ci.appveyor.com/project/wesnoth/wesnoth-605wt/build/Wesnoth-VS2017-master-1732
20180319 16:09:48< gfgtdf> i don'T think this will work., first i don't think you need the "not" there, second i think his will give an erro in 1.12
20180319 16:09:53< vn971> ( gfgtdf: it seems to work without errors.)
20180319 16:11:02< gfgtdf> so what is your coimplete code now ?
20180319 16:11:14< vn971> gfgtdf: but indeed the code should either compare versions or use `not side.is_local == false`
20180319 16:11:41< vn971> oh no, nevermind.
20180319 16:12:07< gfgtdf> vn971: my point is that on 1.12 side.is_local will not just return 'nil', it will give an error.
20180319 16:12:24< vn971> (side.is_local == true or side.is_local == nil)    :P
20180319 16:12:46< vn971> gfgtdf: see above, I tested, it returns `nil` so we're safe
20180319 16:12:56< gfgtdf> quite suprising
20180319 16:13:01< gfgtdf> let mew check the c++ code
20180319 16:15:15< gfgtdf> indeed, only the setters give erros on unknown property the getters just return nil
20180319 16:15:18< gfgtdf> didn't know that
20180319 16:15:35< vn971> gfgtdf: ok, got one-liner without parenthesis.:D   `side.controller == "human" and side.is_local ~= false`
20180319 16:16:05< gfgtdf> ye that should work
20180319 16:16:42< vn971> the contest of writing ugly hacks.. From some point of view, comparing versions would be even better.
20180319 16:17:05< vn971> by the way, why are we doing that? That's horrible API breakage. Really. This thought just struck me now.
20180319 16:17:24< vn971> Who had the idea of changing that when we could just add another field?
20180319 16:17:38< gfgtdf> probably me
20180319 16:17:50< vn971> gfgtdf: well I disagree with you then.:P sorry
20180319 16:17:53< vultraz> why would is_localgive an error?
20180319 16:18:34< vn971> vultraz: the problem I highlighted in last question is API breakage of side.controller itself, without the `is_local` consideration
20180319 16:18:36< gfgtdf> vultraz: it doesn't i was wrongi thought accessing an nonexsitent propertyname woudl give an error, just liek it gives when setting an uneistent poertly.
20180319 16:19:13< vn971> can we revert this? It's API breakage really.
20180319 16:19:29< gfgtdf> vultraz: it does not, i was wrong. I  thought accessing an nonexsitent propertyname would (in 1.12 is_local does not exist) give an error, just like it gives when setting an unexistent property.
20180319 16:19:31< vn971> without deprecation notices or anything.
20180319 16:19:47< vultraz> no
20180319 16:19:50< vultraz> it's too late
20180319 16:19:57< vn971> sh*t, but ok.
20180319 16:21:47< vultraz> It's not just a few lines of code.
20180319 16:22:29< irker760> wesnoth: lundberg wesnoth:master 58f585b6e53e / src/image.cpp: Fix variable-hides-variable https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/58f585b6e53eb31d056f29519aa4119a09cdb4f1
20180319 16:22:31< irker760> wesnoth: lundberg wesnoth:master c187f069e8d0 / projectfiles/VC14/ (wesnoth.vcxproj wesnothd.vcxproj wesnothlib.vcxproj): Suppress upstream variable-hide-variable errors. https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/c187f069e8d0133976b3e0dafaecad2af09a8ed0
20180319 16:23:27< vn971> vultraz: well if it's userdata, we can rename the now-existing controller to `controller_type`, and add a new method (field) controller which will be calculated based on `controller_type` and `is_local` ?
20180319 16:23:49< vn971> vultraz: that wouldn't interfere with existing code too much? Or am I wrong? (I could be.)
20180319 16:23:57< vultraz> I don't know.
20180319 16:25:35< vn971> this would break add-ons written for 1.13 specifically and using the newer classification specifically though. Can't run without any breakage now anyway.
20180319 16:25:36< gfgtdf> this change was done quite early (1.13.0) changin it back no woudl also break addons that were developed in that time.
20180319 16:29:44< gfgtdf> oh actualyl i think [chat] has already that logic that is just suggested you you can probly just use [chat]
20180319 16:29:54< vn971> gfgtdf: add-ons that were developed in this period, explicitly target 1.13 and use the API probably include your add-on, some of mine and very-very few others though (if at all).
20180319 16:31:36< vn971> gfgtdf: nah, your suggestion is fine, and with [chat] you can't hide info from enemy side it seems.
20180319 16:31:41< gfgtdf> https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/blob/a314876bf2e41d3c387e74077399e2522ea21070/data/lua/wml-tags.lua#L67
20180319 16:36:39< vn971> gfgtdf: the code shows that to players excluding observers (I want the other way around).
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20180319 16:40:48< gfgtdf> vn971: below is the code for cfg.observable ~= false
20180319 16:41:05< gfgtdf> just give [chat] a filter that matches no sides
20180319 16:41:37< gfgtdf> i realyl hope we get 1.14 faster out than we did in 1.12
20180319 16:41:58< gfgtdf> 1.12 felt already soo outdated (at lest to me) when it came out
20180319 16:42:04< vn971> gfgtdf: should I fix the wiki "Whether the message is displayed for observers" -> "Whether the message is displayed for observers ONLY" ?
20180319 16:42:44< gfgtdf> no the wiki is correct, the side filters specifies to whcih sieds it it shown, observable  specifies whether it is shown to obervers
20180319 16:42:58< vn971> gfgtdf: ah, you're right, sorry, nvm.
20180319 16:43:22< gfgtdf> i do think there are soem thigns to fix though
20180319 16:43:41< vn971> gfgtdf: probably some DRY yes.
20180319 16:44:05< vn971> on the code. A bit of tricky logic, it has.
20180319 16:44:55< gfgtdf> i was talking about the 1.14 state not about [chat]
20180319 16:45:07< gfgtdf> vultraz: you removed on_redo : https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/10561d3e539e6c92aa99d164bbe5bb106c7f35fd
20180319 16:45:28< gfgtdf> vultraz: next time you do scuh things, please make sure that it is not use ddin mainline first
20180319 16:45:35< gfgtdf> used in mainline*
20180319 16:45:52< vultraz> Was it?
20180319 16:46:02< gfgtdf> https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/search?q=on_redo%23&type=Code&utf8=%E2%9C%93
20180319 16:46:08< vultraz> Because since you emptied it, it’d be useless even if it was
20180319 16:46:33< vultraz> Can that just be removed
20180319 16:47:06< gfgtdf> yes
20180319 16:47:28< vultraz> Ok please do
20180319 16:47:38< gfgtdf> will do
20180319 16:50:10< irker760> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:1.14 df058356df8a / data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/utils/abilities.cfg: remove a [on_redo] https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/df058356df8a6db8092fa30d73cacdda45637377
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20180319 17:05:48< gfgtdf> does require_scenario work in mainline mp scenarios ?
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20180319 17:08:12< gfgtdf> i think it woudl be realyl nice if we coudl use ate addon sver fucntionality for mainline content too so that we can update them without release releasing a new wesnoth version
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20180319 17:12:53< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#17046 (master - c187f06 : lundberg): The build has errored.
20180319 17:12:53< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/355446068
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20180319 17:15:10< Ravana_> vn971: I made such observer check for [chat] implementation. And for API breakage comment, side.controller has even been documented to be unreliable
20180319 17:15:58< vn971> Ravana_: it's documented to be multiplayer-reliable, not that it returns arbitrary things though, is it?
20180319 17:16:26< vn971> Ravana_: like if a side isn't yours and never was, it should't ray "human"... before.
20180319 17:18:47< Ravana_> so you see yourself as only possible human
20180319 17:20:00< Ravana_> it would be good to add devfeature documentation of how it works now though
20180319 17:23:36< irker760> wesnoth: Gregory A Lundberg wesnoth:master 419385d934fb / src/whiteboard/attack.cpp: Disable entire function https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/419385d934fbae247cf47554b38812a21ff836ad
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20180319 17:47:39< vn971> Ravana_: I've added some an hour ago: https://wiki.wesnoth.org/LuaWML:Sides#wesnoth.sides  not sure how descriptive it is. Actually it's probably bad.
20180319 17:48:19< irker760> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master b2d3da4a1e61 / src/ (8 files in 2 dirs): Removed non-functional video2::draw_layering class https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/b2d3da4a1e61cd093b77d466d91e1ca24b0be9b2
20180319 17:48:22< irker760> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master 075a9bac34ab / / (15 files in 5 dirs): Get the GUI2 in-game UI at least appearing https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/075a9bac34abefcfe086e4ff6ddbbc528b2dd7f7
20180319 18:10:43< irker760> wesnoth/wesnoth:1.14 Sofartin 9d1911e79b Fix InfoPlist.strings encoding AppVeyor: All builds passed
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20180319 18:31:00< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#17049 (master - 075a9ba : Charles Dang): The build failed.
20180319 18:31:00< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/355487469
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20180319 18:39:53< irker760> wesnoth: Jyrki Vesterinen wesnoth:1.14 34b6538a69f3 / src/hotkey/command_executor.cpp: Restore ability to recruit full keep of one unit by holding Ctrl+Alt+R https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/34b6538a69f3fb73a82a81d437fcb53c31365739
20180319 18:40:23< irker760> wesnoth: Jyrki Vesterinen wesnoth:master e43d1f5430f2 / src/hotkey/command_executor.cpp: Restore ability to recruit full keep of one unit by holding Ctrl+Alt+R https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/e43d1f5430f209b1c13b549e07d2ed832f7a90a7
20180319 18:40:33< JyrkiVesterinen> celticminstrel: ^
20180319 18:44:22< gfgtdf> was this a 1.12 behaviour ?
20180319 18:44:31< JyrkiVesterinen> Yes.
20180319 18:44:44< JyrkiVesterinen> In 1.12, *all* hotkeys repeated like that because of a bug.
20180319 18:45:16< JyrkiVesterinen> But it didn't matter for most of them, because many of them open GUI dialogs or otherwise end up doing something that stops the repetition.
20180319 18:45:34< JyrkiVesterinen> However, for some of them, that repetition became an accidental feature.
20180319 18:45:43< JyrkiVesterinen> Fortunately it's trivial to restore.
20180319 18:46:50< gfgtdf> i just tested and i cannot even recruit a single uunit by pressing scrol+alt#R
20180319 18:46:59< gfgtdf> +R
20180319 18:47:14< JyrkiVesterinen> You need to recruit some unit first.
20180319 18:47:21< JyrkiVesterinen> That hotkey repeats the last recruiting.
20180319 18:48:42< gfgtdf> sry, i don't see how to do it. can you explain ion more detail ?
20180319 18:49:03< Soliton> recruit one unit. press hotkey to repeat that recruit.
20180319 18:49:43< Soliton> (you need to have at least another free recruit spot.)
20180319 18:51:17< gfgtdf> ok it sems my keyboard is just unable to handler pressing ctrl+alt+r
20180319 18:51:29< gfgtdf> assigning a new hotkey worked.
20180319 19:29:55-!- discordbot1 [~discordbo@baldras.wesnoth.org] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20180319 19:30:12< loonycyborg> test
20180319 19:30:20< discordbot1> <loonycyborg> test
20180319 19:30:33< discordbot1> <loonycyborg> now will wait til a commit
20180319 19:30:41< discordbot1> <loonycyborg> to see if I added those filters properly
20180319 19:32:50< discordbot1> <Vultraz> Crap, now my irc client is going to endlessly ping me
20180319 19:33:14< discordbot1> <Vultraz> Or maybe not? Looks like it’s one way only
20180319 19:35:55< discordbot1> <loonycyborg> I don't think it would make any change for you since you're already on #wesnoth
20180319 19:37:17< discordbot1> <Vultraz> I have the bot ignored there
20180319 19:37:22< discordbot1> <Vultraz> Don’t see anything it says
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20180319 19:44:06< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#17051 (master - e43d1f5 : Jyrki Vesterinen): The build is still failing.
20180319 19:44:06< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/355509680
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20180319 19:50:51< discordbot1> <Daedalus> uh oh captain, REVERT!  😮
20180319 19:51:33< discordbot1> <Vultraz> heh. Nah, master is in a state of massive breakage right now
20180319 19:55:38< discordbot1> <sinda> @Vultraz In major GUIs, the events are generated by external entity (windowing system), which keeps a list of open windows, and it makes a choice of who receives an event based on z-order and modality. The fundamental difference from Wesnoth is that the windows don't control the main event loop, they only provide handlers as callbacks. The "windowing system" controls the main "loop", including draw events.
20180319 19:55:42< discordbot1> <loonycyborg> should I block travis bot too?
20180319 19:55:49< discordbot1> <loonycyborg> or it might be desirable?
20180319 19:55:51< discordbot1> <Vultraz> no, I think travis is fine
20180319 19:55:56< discordbot1> <jyrkive> Better to keep it.
20180319 19:56:31< vultraz> test te
20180319 19:56:47< discordbot1> <Vultraz> do we want it bidirectional?
20180319 19:57:06< discordbot1> <jyrkive> Definitely.
20180319 19:57:12< discordbot1> <sinda> Makes sense to me 😃
20180319 19:57:28< loonycyborg> I think it's the only way it works anyway
20180319 19:57:57< discordbot1> <Vultraz> I guess i'm not seeing its messages over there since I ignored it
20180319 19:58:26< discordbot1> <Vultraz> anyway, I can close my IRC window now, I guess.
20180319 19:59:56< loonycyborg> you still need it for -nonpublic I guess
20180319 20:00:07< discordbot1> <shadowm> Yes.
20180319 20:00:28< discordbot1> <Vultraz> 😒
20180319 20:06:23< irker760> wesnoth/wesnoth:master Sofartin a766c00b7e Fixed campaignd Xcode target AppVeyor: 2/4 builds failed
20180319 20:06:24< irker760> Details vs2017/Release: https://ci.appveyor.com/project/wesnoth/wesnoth-605wt/build/Wesnoth-VS2017-master-1736
20180319 20:06:25< irker760> Details vs2015/Release: https://ci.appveyor.com/project/wesnoth/wesnoth-7lnpw/build/Wesnoth-VS2015-master-2032
20180319 20:08:14< discordbot1> <loonycyborg> well I definitely fucked up that re for irker
20180319 20:12:39< discordbot1> <shadowm> I don't even know what's going on.
20180319 20:16:11-!- JyrkiVesterinen [~JyrkiVest@85-23-197-3.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Quit: Going to bed]
20180319 20:17:02< discordbot1> <Vultraz> we're trying to set up the bridge bot here
20180319 20:29:59< irker760> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master 3a768cbdbe5d / src/display.cpp: Display: got map screenshots working again https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/3a768cbdbe5dea0b3d257faf99dfc35c90d45312
20180319 20:30:19< discordbot1> <Vultraz> @loonycyborg indeed not 😦
20180319 20:31:05< discordbot1> <loonycyborg> at least github from discord is filtered
20180319 20:37:39< irker760> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master f62ad8b1df6d / src/display.cpp: Fixup 3a768cbdbe5d https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/f62ad8b1df6d2e1551c7a6eef91093c7b39fc190
20180319 20:41:08< discordbot1> <Daedalus> 👍🏾
20180319 20:41:17< discordbot1> <Daedalus> awesome work, very nice!  kudos to the devs!
20180319 20:41:29< discordbot1> <Daedalus> I eagerly await the next version ❤
20180319 20:42:35< discordbot1> <Vultraz> @Daedalus We're hoping to get 1.14 proper out in april, and then an early 1.15 release out in a few months.
20180319 20:42:54< discordbot1> <Vultraz> if all goes well, 1.16 should be out between a year and two from now
20180319 20:44:07< discordbot1> <Daedalus> wonderful!  I really love the work you all have been putting in!
20180319 20:44:09< discordbot1> <Daedalus> ❤
20180319 20:44:28< discordbot1> <Vultraz> thank you 😃
20180319 20:44:33< discordbot1> <Daedalus> I'm hoping 1.14 is ready for Steam Soon ™
20180319 20:44:58< discordbot1> <Daedalus> it sounds goofy but some of my friends will refuse to play any game not on Steam
20180319 20:45:01< discordbot1> <Daedalus> ¯_(ツ)_/¯
20180319 20:45:10< discordbot1> <shadowm> Kids these days.
20180319 20:45:14< discordbot1> <Daedalus> Ikr?
20180319 20:45:25< discordbot1> <Daedalus> I remember when we had to manually install EVERYTHING pre-Steam
20180319 20:45:36< discordbot1> <shadowm> Steam even lets you add non-Steam games to the list if you must be able to launch them through Steam.
20180319 20:45:45< discordbot1> <Daedalus> they said they want achievements and stuff
20180319 20:45:46< discordbot1> <Daedalus> ¯_(ツ)_/¯
20180319 20:45:57< discordbot1> <Daedalus> I lol'd
20180319 20:46:03< discordbot1> <shadowm> Well, there's not going to like Wesnoth then.
20180319 20:46:12< discordbot1> <Daedalus> maybe we can consider adding in some Steam achievements?
20180319 20:46:18< discordbot1> <Daedalus> maybe just for completing the mainline campaign stuff
20180319 20:46:43< discordbot1> <Vultraz> We can't.
20180319 20:46:46< discordbot1> <Daedalus> ?
20180319 20:46:56< discordbot1> <shadowm> Somehow it's one of the subjects nobody can ever agree on because the people who don't like achievements feel nobody should have achievements.
20180319 20:47:14< discordbot1> <shadowm> Also we can't integrate the API that enables us to have achievements on Steam without violating our own software license.
20180319 20:47:21< discordbot1> <Daedalus> FF12 Zodiac Age is completely offline and even they put in achievements O_o
20180319 20:47:31< discordbot1> <Daedalus> though they did have a built-in system before 😄
20180319 20:47:44< discordbot1> <Daedalus> ohhh
20180319 20:47:49< discordbot1> <Daedalus> I understand, I gotcha
20180319 20:47:55< discordbot1> <Daedalus> that's wierd O_o
20180319 20:48:11< discordbot1> <Daedalus> wouldn't you just be making function calls to the Steamworks api (DLL on Windows) instead?
20180319 20:48:31< discordbot1> <Vultraz> it's complicated
20180319 20:48:43< discordbot1> <Daedalus> fair enough, I won't bother you all too much
20180319 20:49:09< discordbot1> <Vultraz> It's the kind of thing where we could do it, and in all likelihood no one would complain, but we'd rather not.
20180319 20:49:24< discordbot1> <Daedalus> ok perhaps an integrated built-in system for achievements?
20180319 20:49:28< discordbot1> <Daedalus> self-contained outside of Steam?
20180319 20:49:59< discordbot1> <Daedalus> eh, maybe on the wishlist for 1.20 😄
20180319 20:50:18< discordbot1> <Daedalus> anyhoo I appreciate the responses, thanks 😃
20180319 20:51:37< octalot> As 1.13.12 connects to the 1.13 multiplayer server, please would someone update the MOTD on that server? It currently says that 1.13.11 is the latest release.
20180319 20:52:27< vultraz> 1.13.12 hasn't officially been announced yet
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20180319 20:53:47< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#17052 (master - 3a768cb : Charles Dang): The build is still failing.
20180319 20:53:47< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/355557444
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20180319 20:54:02< octalot> ah, thanks
20180319 20:54:24< vultraz> I'm working on the announcement
20180319 20:54:42<+discordbot1> <shadowm> I hope it isn't as bare-bones as last time.
20180319 20:56:19<+discordbot1> <Vultraz> there's not much to say
20180319 20:56:36<+discordbot1> <shadowm> That's not true.
20180319 20:56:45<+discordbot1> <shadowm> https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/blob/master/changelog.md#version-11312
20180319 20:57:03<+discordbot1> <shadowm> Either I'm imagining things or there's a lot to say there.
20180319 20:59:37<+discordbot1> <shadowm> You know, back in the day I'd take the time to go over the changelog entries and not just copy-and-paste them into the announcement for everyone's convenience (people don't read the changelog no matter how many times you link it in the announcement).
20180319 21:00:43<+discordbot1> <shadowm> I'd explain in further detail the implications of some of the changes to the target audience (e.g. "Wesnoth no longer allows access to dotfiles in data dirs, here's what this means for content creators"), I'd ask developers around if I had doubts about the phrasing of a changelog entry or couldn't figure out all the implications myself, and I'd keep note of all of this and add it to the release announcement.
20180319 21:01:07<+discordbot1> <shadowm> I was just a developer. Not a(n official) Community Manager, not a Release Manager.
20180319 21:02:00<+discordbot1> <shadowm> I was just the woman in charge of writing release announcements for the actual Release Manager since he also fell into the habit of letting developers decide for himself what the release announcement should contain, and they started doing a consistently deplorable job of it to the point that one release had no changes mentioned whatsoever.
20180319 21:02:30<+discordbot1> <Daedalus> for what it is worth ShadowM, I appreciate the work you did on those announcement things 😃
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20180319 21:03:18< loonycyborg> hopefully it should get irker now
20180319 21:08:15<+discordbot1> <shadowm> Incidentally, 1.12 had thee Release Candidates.
20180319 21:08:42<+discordbot1> <shadowm> I believe that's on par with 1.2.
20180319 21:09:25<+discordbot1> <shadowm> Oh never mind, 1.2 had four.
20180319 21:10:02<+discordbot1> <shadowm> Wanted to point this out for the people who believe that this somehow means that calling them Release Candidates is wrong.
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20180319 21:10:41< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#17053 (master - f62ad8b : Charles Dang): The build is still failing.
20180319 21:10:41< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/355560977
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20180319 21:16:08<+discordbot1> <loonycyborg> iirc I started contributing when 1.12 was current stable
20180319 21:16:12<+discordbot1> <loonycyborg> or was it 1.14?
20180319 21:16:24<+discordbot1> <loonycyborg> or 1.8?
20180319 21:17:07<+discordbot1> <loonycyborg> yes definitely 1.8
20180319 21:17:16<+discordbot1> <loonycyborg> why else I would have a checkout with it
20180319 21:19:25<+discordbot1> <shadowm> Uh.
20180319 21:19:49<+discordbot1> <shadowm> I swear you started contributing back in 1.5.x.
20180319 21:20:15<+discordbot1> <shadowm> You were doing SCons along with ESR at the time.
20180319 21:22:01<+discordbot1> <loonycyborg> ah yes
20180319 21:22:04<+discordbot1> <loonycyborg> 1.4
20180319 21:22:11<+discordbot1> <loonycyborg> that's why I said 1.14
20180319 21:22:16<+discordbot1> <loonycyborg> I misremembered 😛
20180319 21:22:55<+discordbot1> <loonycyborg> kinda hard to believe that there was so many major releases already
20180319 21:23:45<+discordbot1> <shadowm> Yeah because that was 10 years ago.
20180319 21:24:20<+discordbot1> <hrubymar10> /Users/user/xcode/wesnoth/src/display.cpp:1149:13: Unused function 'draw_background'
20180319 21:24:30<+discordbot1> <shadowm> We'd be preparing 1.20 now if there hasn't been some massive setbacks during 1.9.x and 1.11.x and 1.13.x.
20180319 21:27:53< TadCarlucci> yeah
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20180319 21:29:18<+discordbot1> <shadowm> (The big 1.9.x setback was the Whiteboard project for GSoC, for reference. Both of them -- we had a slot dedicated to the task for two years in a row.)
20180319 21:30:44<+discordbot1> <loonycyborg> whitboard isn't in game in current releases though?
20180319 21:31:31< gfgtdf> it is, but parts that are known to cause crashes have been dissabled
20180319 21:32:15< gfgtdf> i don't know whether it can do anything more complicated than planning simple moves.
20180319 21:47:34<+discordbot1> <Vultraz> @loonycyborg ya know, I wonder if IRC isn't going to like code blocks
20180319 21:47:43<+discordbot1> <Vultraz> those are almost always multi-line
20180319 21:48:05<+discordbot1> <Tad Carlucci> we shall see
20180319 21:48:17< TadCarlucci> Bah. close
20180319 21:48:19<+discordbot1> <Vultraz> not I, since I have the bot on ignore 😛
20180319 21:48:45<+discordbot1> <Vultraz> and how will it handle embedded images?
20180319 21:48:48<+discordbot1> <Vultraz> file uploads?
20180319 21:49:12<+discordbot1> <Tad Carlucci> gracefully, I hope.
20180319 21:49:51<+discordbot1> <Vultraz> I still don't think this is a great idea. Convenient, in some ways, but also ridiculous in others.
20180319 21:49:52<+discordbot1> <Tad Carlucci> What is more important is that all the team members can talk using the platform of their choice.
20180319 21:50:13<+discordbot1> <Vultraz> That's the Linux dev in you speaking
20180319 21:50:14<+discordbot1> <Vultraz> 😛
20180319 21:51:26<+discordbot1> <Tad Carlucci> Well, can I help it you use a cripled OS?
20180319 21:51:41< zookeeper> well we just want you to be able to talk to us from discord since you like it so much. i think it's a nice sentiment.
20180319 21:52:03<+discordbot1> <Vultraz> I meant this "eh let users do what they want" is a very Linuxian attitude.
20180319 21:52:27<+discordbot1> <Tad Carlucci> Oh .. quick question. I locally #if'd out an unused static function in src/display.cpp .. should I commit that or do you plan to get background working soon?
20180319 21:52:43<+discordbot1> <Vultraz> Imagine if Apple took that stance. We'd never ditch headphone jacks.
20180319 21:53:08<+discordbot1> <Tad Carlucci> Oh, nah. I learned the on the knees of Scope/Cronos at uni.
20180319 21:53:14<+discordbot1> <Vultraz> I haven't decided who should handle background drawing.
20180319 21:53:22<+discordbot1> <sinda> Software team is not a mass product. Its tools should be tailored to it, not the other way around.
20180319 21:54:19<+discordbot1> <Vultraz> Only inasmuch as it is not an inconvenience to do so.
20180319 21:54:27< irker760> wesnoth: Gregory A Lundberg wesnoth:master de218da63762 / src/display.cpp: Bypass unused code so we still compile while the mountains crumble and smoke ris https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/de218da637622201d6fcce2cbe3708461a3d3bd0
20180319 21:55:30<+discordbot1> <Vultraz> @loonycyborg noooope 😦
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20180319 21:59:14< loonycyborg> probably I forgot ~
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20180319 22:01:03< loonycyborg> hope it'll work now
20180319 22:02:43< irker760> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master 77f2c758ca71 / src/gui/widgets/window.cpp: GUI2/Window: cleaned up some commented-out code https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/77f2c758ca71dad55f57dc14e12e0ed74d77d67b
20180319 22:02:53<+discordbot1> <Vultraz> NOPE 😦
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20180319 22:07:19<+discordbot1> <loonycyborg> if this time won't work then I'll need to look up in sourcecode
20180319 22:07:44<+discordbot1> <Vultraz> or we just disable irker and leave it in that #wesnoth-commits channel
20180319 22:18:03<+discordbot1> <shadowm> I'm facepalming so hard right now.
20180319 22:19:16<+discordbot1> <shadowm> Stop using corporate tactics as an example for us to follow vultraz, you literally do not know what you're talking about when you do.
20180319 22:20:21<+discordbot1> <shadowm> If you can't come up with actual arguments to justify your actions it's best to leave them unjustified.
20180319 22:21:13<+discordbot1> <loonycyborg> in crusader kings 2 it leads to -10 tyranny opinion penalty per action 😛
20180319 22:24:43<+discordbot1> <Vultraz> Alright, you want me to cease the snarky jokes? Then I shall do so and state quite plainly that I resent the resistance to change wherein despite having outlined in many ways why Discord is a superior team coordination option over IRC, and having observed the Frogatto dev team completely abandon IRC in favor of Discord resulting in what I can only describe as a superior, more effective, and more enjoyable environment, I am still
20180319 22:24:43<+discordbot1> unable to say "we're doing this" and have the team go along with it. Instead, we end up going in ridiculous circles every few months where someone brings up an argument in favor or against and nothing changes but increased resentment.
20180319 22:25:37<+discordbot1> <pydsigner> 🤔
20180319 22:26:47<+discordbot1> <Vultraz> I jest about Apple and Linux, yes, but they're simply jokes and meant to be taken as such.
20180319 22:26:54<+discordbot1> <Tad Carlucci> at this point someone needs to mumble something about horses and water
20180319 22:27:33<+discordbot1> <Vultraz> And yes, it's meant to have an underlying element of self-deprecating humor wherein I portray myself as an idiot Apply fanboyist out to tell everyone what to do.
20180319 22:30:10<+discordbot1> <Vultraz> I've been doing my best to lead the team through what is at this point a years-long process to get on Steam, and perhaps you could imagine why it would be incredibly frustrating to have to continuously argue about what damn communication platform we're using!
20180319 22:30:26<+discordbot1> <pydsigner> Then... Stop arguing?
20180319 22:30:44<+discordbot1> <shadowm> Give me a few minutes to dry my hair and I'll explain what the issue is.
20180319 22:32:21<+discordbot1> <loonycyborg> well I don't see anything bad about supporting both with gateways
20180319 22:32:35<+discordbot1> <Tad Carlucci> Seems to me the fix has been made. If Discord is superior, now that the team is no longer segregated by the choice of platform, the IRC folk will move over. Likewise, if Discord proves not to have advantages with meaning to the project, it will die off and people will move back to IRC.
20180319 22:33:08<+discordbot1> <Vultraz> Or the bridge just encourages people to never switch other.
20180319 22:33:30<+discordbot1> <pydsigner> Which is harmful why?
20180319 22:33:33<+discordbot1> <Tad Carlucci> Which means there is no clear advantage to each, so the bridge merges the team back together.
20180319 22:34:14<+discordbot1> <loonycyborg> some will never switch no matter what
20180319 22:34:16<+discordbot1> <Vultraz> Objectively, the solution isn't bad, but to me it continues to be symbolic of resistance to change and an inability to rally around a decision.
20180319 22:34:26<+discordbot1> <loonycyborg> at least bridge brings channels for both in one place
20180319 22:34:32<+discordbot1> <sinda> https://xkcd.com/927/
20180319 22:34:54<+discordbot1> <Vultraz> heh
20180319 22:35:33<+discordbot1> <Tad Carlucci> There is ALWAYS an appropriate xkcd. But don't ask mewhere the xkcd is for that.
20180319 22:36:01<+discordbot1> <sinda> @Tad Carlucci "Emacs", I think.
20180319 22:36:09<+discordbot1> <loonycyborg> some people will never switch to discord, but even if we were using true upgrade for irc bridge would be still good for transition
20180319 22:36:31<+discordbot1> <pydsigner> Stop attacking "symbols". It's counterproductive and a waste of willpower. If your angst is over people on an opensource project being unwilling to treat you like an employer, start paying them. If there's  a specific issue that's actually a problem, address that.
20180319 22:36:56<+discordbot1> <shadowm> @Vultraz The issue is much simpler than you think. The issue is that you want the Battle for Wesnoth development team to be the Frogatto/Argentum Age/Anura development team.
20180319 22:37:07<+discordbot1> <shadowm> It doesn't get any simpler than that.
20180319 22:37:15<+discordbot1> <sinda> +1 on addressing problems, not people.
20180319 22:37:34<+discordbot1> <shadowm> You want a marcavis, you want a Dave, you want a Jetrel. We're none of those people.
20180319 22:37:35<+discordbot1> <Tad Carlucci> It's an open source project. You lead or get out of the way. You can't push.
20180319 22:37:57<+discordbot1> <shadowm> You can't expect us to change to suit your idea of an ideal team without kicking us out and replacing us with the people you actually want.
20180319 22:38:23<+discordbot1> <shadowm> We're all people with our own opinions and our own lives and our own way to do things. We can't be those who you keep modelling your ideal development team after.
20180319 22:38:42< irker760> wesnoth/wesnoth:master Sofartin c3ddb01543 Fixed Xcode project AppVeyor: vs2017/Release Failed
20180319 22:38:43< irker760> Details: https://ci.appveyor.com/project/wesnoth/wesnoth-605wt/build/Wesnoth-VS2017-master-1746
20180319 22:39:22<+discordbot1> <shadowm> If you want change you must at least be able to respect the fact that we are all people with free will and no contractual obligation to you or this project if you keep placing obstacles in our way and accusing us of being disagreeable every time we can't reach a consensus.
20180319 22:40:08<+discordbot1> <shadowm> If you want to impose changes you must be fully aware of the fact that we are all free to leave if we decide that those changes are harmful or detrimental to the project or to our own selves.
20180319 22:40:28<+discordbot1> <shadowm> There are a few of us who have been around for longer than you, and a few who have been around for less than 4 years.
20180319 22:40:32<+discordbot1> <loonycyborg> actually it applies pretty much to all projects
20180319 22:40:37<+discordbot1> <loonycyborg> even proprietiary ones
20180319 22:40:38<+discordbot1> <shadowm> We are all equally important and our opinions are all equally valid.
20180319 22:41:05<+discordbot1> <shadowm> No, commercial projects solve all their problems by throwing money at them.
20180319 22:41:15<+discordbot1> <Vultraz> Perhaps the difference is they (the Frogatto team) simply happen to agree on all the changes they make. I hadn't considered that.
20180319 22:41:22<+discordbot1> <shadowm> (Although sometimes they run out of money and then they're forced to close down.)
20180319 22:41:26<+discordbot1> <loonycyborg> money don't solve anything magically
20180319 22:41:38<+discordbot1> <loonycyborg> they can let you hire someone who could
20180319 22:41:42<+discordbot1> <loonycyborg> there's no guarantee though
20180319 22:42:30<+discordbot1> <shadowm> The Frogatto team is much smaller (it's more a kin to a friendship circle, last time I checked) and they're all working towards more definite common goals, and they are also people with a different mentality than most of the devs here.
20180319 22:42:39<+discordbot1> <loonycyborg> even if you're paying them people still can refuse to do stuff
20180319 22:42:47<+discordbot1> <loonycyborg> or engage in subtle sabotage
20180319 22:42:55<+discordbot1> <loonycyborg> money don't remove the need for good management
20180319 22:43:00<+discordbot1> <shadowm> That's why they can get away with doing all sorts of crazy shit, including breaking everything all the time.
20180319 22:43:18<+discordbot1> <Vultraz> Fair point
20180319 22:43:19<+discordbot1> <shadowm> But let me be blunt for a moment here
20180319 22:43:28<+discordbot1> <shadowm> When was the next version of Frogatto released?
20180319 22:43:37<+discordbot1> <shadowm> And when was it supposed to be released?
20180319 22:44:04<+discordbot1> <shadowm> The answer for the latter question is several years ago.
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20180319 22:44:47< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#17055 (master - de218da : Gregory A Lundberg): The build has errored.
20180319 22:44:48< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/355593335
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20180319 22:45:06<+discordbot1> <Tad Carlucci> Another point: we have team leader who's still green. No problem with that. But it means he has to learn things that he'd naturally pick up over the next decade on his way to lower management.
20180319 22:45:10<+discordbot1> <shadowm> You might not have as tight-knit a team here as you'd like to have (yet), but at least it seems able to ship releases mostly on time, sans schedule shifts.
20180319 22:45:25<+discordbot1> <Vultraz> Fair enough.
20180319 22:48:14<+discordbot1> <Vultraz> Alright, then. Let us have this bridge, but let us also never have this whole IRC vs Discord debate again. I'm perfectly willing to cease pushing for everyone on one platform and dropping "get on Discord" jabs to celmin, if we all agree to stop arguing about it every few months, however it comes up.
20180319 22:49:08< zookeeper> oh if we now have a bridge here too, then there's nothign to argue about, except maybe technical details WRT how the bridge works.
20180319 22:49:23< wedge009> So... is this two-way? We can see the discord chat but can they see ours?
20180319 22:49:31<+discordbot1> <Vultraz> yes
20180319 22:49:32< shadowm> Yes.
20180319 22:49:36< wedge009> Oh hai.
20180319 22:49:57< shadowm> Hello me
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20180319 22:50:09< wedge009> Uh...
20180319 22:50:14< wedge009> The bot broke?
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20180319 22:50:27< wedge009> Welcome back?
20180319 22:50:27< shadowm> It didn't like me quoting Adele, apparently.
20180319 22:50:38< wedge009> Didn't even know that was a quote.
20180319 22:50:46< shadowm> You didn't see it because it died first.
20180319 22:51:02<+discordbot1> <pydsigner> No transporting copyrighted lyrics!
20180319 22:51:15<+discordbot1> <loonycyborg> I restarted it to try to make that filter work again
20180319 22:51:19<+discordbot1> <Vultraz> Let's just get the irker situation sorted, and we'll be good.
20180319 22:51:37<+discordbot1> <Tad Carlucci> siiide other the from Hello .. what about transposing lyrics?
20180319 22:52:07< pydsigner> seems to have worked :loophole:
20180319 22:52:10< wedge009> Well... platform ideologies aside, this seems like a good compromise in practice.
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20180319 22:54:35< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#17056 (master - 77f2c75 : Charles Dang): The build is still failing.
20180319 22:54:35< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/355596312
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20180319 22:55:16<+discordbot1> <pydsigner> I just need to come up with a way to make my phone not highlight me when I talk in discord
20180319 22:55:37<+discordbot1> <Vultraz> that's why i set the bot to Ignore
20180319 22:55:38<+discordbot1> <Vultraz> on IRC
20180319 22:56:17<+discordbot1> <Vultraz> I couldn't stand getting the desktop notification for what I just said every time I spoke in #general
20180319 22:56:32<+discordbot1> <pydsigner> But then my logs would be less useful. I'll probably just /part #w-dev
20180319 22:56:45<+discordbot1> <shadowm> Also, I'll say this too: while playing a caricature of yourself can be funny and endearing at times, when it's time to be serious and make things happen, it can become confusing, distracting, irritating and even demotivating, especially when sarcasm is heavily involved. At the planning board we need people to be frank and objective, otherwise it's too easy to lose all sense of direction (with all the implications this carries).
20180319 22:57:26<+discordbot1> <shadowm> All of the people, not just the release manager.
20180319 22:58:25<+discordbot1> <Vultraz> You should know me enough by now to know self-deprecation is something I do a lot. Not sure why, exactly. Well, I have a few ideas, but none of them point to healthy self-image. But let's not go there!
20180319 22:58:28<+discordbot1> <Vultraz> But yes
20180319 22:58:30<+discordbot1> <Vultraz> point taken
20180319 22:59:07< Ravana_> I solve the highlight problem by reading on dc and writing on irc
20180319 22:59:28< zookeeper> also, playing a caricature of yourself is risky because it's not a given everyone understands which ones are jokes and which ones aren't, when the difference is only a matter of degree.
20180319 22:59:46<+discordbot1> <shadowm> Especially outside observers.
20180319 23:00:15<+discordbot1> <Tad Carlucci> And readers from the future since, now, all this Discord chat is logged forever in the IRC logs ...
20180319 23:00:34< wedge009> Discord doesn't log?
20180319 23:00:34<+discordbot1> <shadowm> It was already logged forever on Discord too. :p
20180319 23:01:49<+discordbot1> <shadowm> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/259976436490829825/425428713065414686/unknown.png
20180319 23:02:03<+discordbot1> <shadowm> Took me just a minute to retrieve a random quote of mine in #general from last year before May.
20180319 23:02:31<+discordbot1> <Tad Carlucci> Do we log it or are you assuming Discord will still have the logs in ten years when it's old and decrepid and everyone has move on to the new best thing ever?
20180319 23:02:47<+discordbot1> <Vultraz> We don't log it ourselves.
20180319 23:03:09<+discordbot1> <shadowm> Yep, we're just assuming.
20180319 23:03:32<+discordbot1> <shadowm> Last time someone checked there wasn't a way to download the log in any form whatsoever.
20180319 23:03:45<+discordbot1> <Vultraz> Well, there is, somehow, but it's complicated
20180319 23:03:46<+discordbot1> <shadowm> I think a bot could do it but someone would have to look that up.
20180319 23:03:53<+discordbot1> <Tad Carlucci> Well, effective today, that's no longer an issue.
20180319 23:04:01<+discordbot1> <Vultraz> It was done to export a log of the board channel for release at one pont
20180319 23:04:03< zookeeper> ok, so, i know absolutely nothing about how the discord bot works, so maybe this is a dumb question: when the bot drops from here and rejoins, could it repeat anything said in discord in the meantime?
20180319 23:04:03<+discordbot1> <Vultraz> point
20180319 23:04:14<+discordbot1> <Vultraz> No.
20180319 23:04:30< wedge009> Probably real-time forwarding only.
20180319 23:04:36<+discordbot1> <shadowm> Yeah, it's completely stateless.
20180319 23:04:41< wedge009> Better than the nothing we had before, though.
20180319 23:04:43< zookeeper> mmkay.
20180319 23:04:58<+discordbot1> <shadowm> As you can see it didn't repeat my Adele quote after reconnecting.
20180319 23:28:13-!- boucman [~rosen@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20180319 23:29:31< zookeeper> so what's the short summary of what's been going on with [hide_unit] during the past few versions?
20180319 23:31:05-!- gfgtdf [~chatzilla@x4e368052.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.93 [Firefox 52.7.2/20180315163333]]
20180319 23:32:52<+discordbot1> <Vultraz> [hide_unit] used to simply, well, hide units, but it only really worked for short cutscenes. If you reloaded, the unit would be unhidden. To rectify that, I made the hidden attribute it set be written to the unit config, so hidden states could persist over reload cycles. It also had the unfortunate side effect of making units hidden at the end of a scenario remain hidden in the next, but I fixed that by stripping out the hidden=
20180319 23:32:53<+discordbot1> key from units carried over. There's stil a slight semantic change, though, since I think a hidden unit stored with [store_unit] will be unstored still hidden, meaning UMC authors have to account for that.
20180319 23:35:35< zookeeper> right, okay. so issues like https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=624906#p624906 are indeed now fixed in 1.13.12... unless there's a store/unstore involved.
20180319 23:35:52<+discordbot1> <Vultraz> yes
20180319 23:36:06<+discordbot1> <Vultraz> I'd not be opposed to reverting the change altogether, too
20180319 23:36:09< zookeeper> so did someone go over mainline uses of [hide_unit] to catch those cases..?
20180319 23:36:24<+discordbot1> <Vultraz> since the case where it was used in AtS isn't needed anymore since we have defeat_condition=
20180319 23:37:01<+discordbot1> <Vultraz> I did not.
20180319 23:37:39<+discordbot1> <Vultraz> I don't know if the change would be too drastic for umc authors to deal with
20180319 23:38:14<+discordbot1> <Vultraz> It wasn't really well thought out on my part
20180319 23:38:30< irker760> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master f80fabfe3040 / src/help/ (help.cpp help.hpp): Help: removed code to show old GUI1 help browser https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/f80fabfe304032aa78cb93ef6be2ed6a04d95f59
20180319 23:38:33< irker760> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master 504d4d2ff4de / src/ (display.cpp display.hpp): Display: removed now-unused map_screenshot_surface_ https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/504d4d2ff4de18ab0d69b089a9a8ae65a91dea70
20180319 23:38:36< irker760> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master 123dd952c05a / src/video.hpp: Made CVideo::render_screen private https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/123dd952c05a15a0e9d179de2fae0b81ad34ddd3
20180319 23:38:41<+discordbot1> <Vultraz> @loonycyborg 😦
20180319 23:40:48-!- Appleman1234_ is now known as Appleman1234
20180319 23:44:11<+discordbot1> <pydsigner> @loonycyborg let me know if you want some collaboration on this
20180319 23:51:23-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20180319 23:54:06< celticminstrel> Yay for 075a9ba?
20180319 23:55:25< celticminstrel> Ooh, e43d1f5 looks nice too.
20180319 23:55:49< celticminstrel> de218da has the best commit message. 42 points to Tad.
20180319 23:57:47< celticminstrel> Oh, and e43d1f5 was even cherry-picked to 1.14, nice.
20180319 23:59:58< celticminstrel> Anyone interested in seeing my WIP for generating shaders from IPFs?
--- Log closed Tue Mar 20 00:00:28 2018