--- Log opened Fri Mar 23 00:00:11 2018 20180323 00:44:44-!- Haudegen [~quassel@212-186-77-29.static.upcbusiness.at] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20180323 00:52:31< hk238> :o 20180323 00:53:20< hk238> I wonder if there's a way to modify unit stats so that they would consider both the terrain the defender is in as well as the attacker's terrain, for both units? 20180323 00:53:53< hk238> so for an example if you would have a cavalry, that was on a hill, and it was attacking a unit on plains, it would get some benefit from the terrain being plains or similar 20180323 00:55:01< hk238> one possible thing to do would be to abstract certain qualities about the terrain, such as 'cover' and give them some values, then those values could be used instead of direct terrain filtering 20180323 00:55:54< hk238> this would further complicate the game I suppose, for now terrain considerations are somewhat onesided, so there's defender - defender terrain, and attacker - attacker terrain interaction 20180323 00:56:09< hk238> but mostly don't have defender - attacker terrain , or attacker - defender terrain interaction 20180323 00:56:56< hk238> adding those elements into the game would increase the complexity, if you have 2 units to attack with, 2 targets to attack, they're surrounded by 5 vacant hexes, of 3 different terrain types, or something like that 20180323 00:57:16< hk238> then the considerations become more numerous thus potentially allowing further depth to gameplay 20180323 00:57:58< hk238> but finding rules which add to the experience and complexity requires some finesse I suppose, so the overall direction isn't too chaotic and doesn't reduce to noise 20180323 00:58:05-!- molgrum [~molgrum@unaffiliated/molgrum] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20180323 01:00:09< hk238> could for an example create abstractions such as 'elevation' 'maneuvaribility/flatness' 'cover' etc 20180323 01:01:05< hk238> and once those values were stored somewhere, then fetch them with functions like 'get, defender's, terrain value, flatness' or something 20180323 01:02:52< hk238> and when you'd have that you could for an example do something like modify charge ability to increase attacker's damage by "attacker flatness" * "defender flatness + 0.1" * ( "attacker elevation" - "defender elevation" ) 20180323 01:03:30< hk238> well I suppose that would include generic values like 'how easy it is to defend a terrain' but for that you could also use the actual defense value 20180323 01:04:01< hk238> like for an example although castles are maneuverable, it shouldn't be that the charging horsemen get a benefit for attacking units in castles 20180323 01:04:05< hk238> so well I don't know 20180323 01:04:38< hk238> on the other hand these phenomenom occur somewhat on the macro level, if not on unit x unit level 20180323 01:07:17< hk238> like horsemen are actually better on flat than in woods, as it stands 20180323 01:25:09< celticminstrel> FTR, it's intentional that the opponent's terrain is not taken into account. 20180323 01:26:19< hk238> is there a reason for that? :o 20180323 01:26:26< celticminstrel> Simplicity I think? 20180323 01:26:41< celticminstrel> The system is probably flexible enough to implement it as an add-on or something, but I'm not sure. 20180323 01:29:43< hk238> which capacity the system might be lacking if not? I mean you just said that you're not sure so it's not fair ask but, thinking about it, it seems like math applied in a conditionally dependent way, it seems like all you need is calculating numbers while taking 2 terrains into account? Although there's intermediate table like forest - flatness - 1.25 or something. Flatness table for terrains 20180323 01:39:46< celticminstrel> I'm not sure what it might be lacking. 20180323 01:40:22< celticminstrel> I think it's very likely that is is possible, but AFAIK there's no built-in mechanism so you'd probably either need to use reams of hidden abilities or events. 20180323 01:57:19<+discordbot4> if you wanted more realism you would also need to eg remove the ability of flying units being attacked by mele which would make them immortal in many situations, no matter the nerfs to them 20180323 01:57:24< hk238> hm can you make table look ups or functions that return values inside events? :o 20180323 01:58:01< hk238> EoZ while that might increase realism to an extent, it would seem to be unlikely to make the game fun 20180323 01:58:14-!- Narrat [~Narrat@p5DCC66D5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance.] 20180323 02:01:45<+discordbot4> its interesting that you are now talking about something that would make the game more complicated like taking into account defender and attacker terrain while earlier you were talking about some (definitely interesting) idea about having a game about having commanders and issuing them orders. im not saying its bad, just interesting, the earlier would practically remove the tactical side of the game and make it a rather simple strategy 20180323 02:01:46<+discordbot4> and the latter would, well, create some crazy tactics xD 20180323 02:01:47<+discordbot4> There's a reason most fliers don't have ranged attacks :^) 20180323 02:02:22< hk238> heh :) 20180323 02:02:51< hk238> EoZ, yes the earlier suggestion was solving an entirely different problem, which was simultaneity of multiplayer turns 20180323 02:03:28< hk238> and such a suggestion would have decreased the depth so that seems like a correct observation 20180323 02:03:52< hk238> but both issues are concerned with what's 'fun' 20180323 02:05:15< hk238> since most people don't like waiting long times in between their turns in many player games, and complexity with gameplay depth can make room for fun in games, although it can also take away from it. A lack of complexity, emergent or otherwise, on the other hand is likely to result to boredom 20180323 02:10:38-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has joined #wesnoth 20180323 02:12:07< hk238> sorry I didn't mean to argue :o 20180323 02:22:08-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180323 02:22:10-!- molgrum [~molgrum@databur.st] has joined #wesnoth 20180323 02:22:10-!- molgrum [~molgrum@databur.st] has quit [Changing host] 20180323 02:22:10-!- molgrum [~molgrum@unaffiliated/molgrum] has joined #wesnoth 20180323 02:22:15-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20180323 02:27:04<+discordbot4> @Dan checked the story, were you referring to "His former advisor, Mal Ravanal, was driving the undead hordes into the lands of Wesnoth."? Former advisor Mal Ravanal is the correct reading there 20180323 02:27:20<+discordbot4> Was he advisor at one point? 20180323 02:31:30<+discordbot4> "The greatest seer in the land, Galdren, foresaw that some day, some day soon, a great evil would spread over the land. The king, naturally, was worried. The seer told him that the only way to stop the evil was to appoint a mage, versed well in combat with the spirits of darkness, to be the king’s advisor." "In all the land, there were two magi that clearly stood out from the rest. A mage from the east named Ravan, and [Dacyn]. The 20180323 02:31:31<+discordbot4> King, wishing to choose the best advisor, sent us both before Galdren. Then he conversed with the seer privately. None know what was said, but when he came out he announced that the seer was dead, and he had chosen [Dacyn] as his new advisor." 20180323 02:32:12<+discordbot4> He was never the King's advisor. 20180323 02:33:42<+discordbot4> Even though I've played thru that campaign and the others quite a few times already, I just realized how ironic that is. He tried to prevent that evil, but in his precautions, he created it. XD 20180323 02:34:24<+discordbot4> Self-fulfilling prophecies are really common in fiction. 20180323 02:34:59<+discordbot4> In fairness, had he not done that, Mal Ravanal would've got batshit crazy at some point anyway. 20180323 02:36:28<+discordbot4> Probably. 20180323 02:36:47<+discordbot4> hmm good point I figured he was an advisor in the court but I also probably inherited that text 20180323 02:38:02<+discordbot4> While we are talking about EI, can someone tell me exactly how on Earth are Gweddry's and Owaec's names supposed to be pronounced? 20180323 02:38:09-!- octalot [~steve@77.119.131.210.wireless.dyn.drei.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20180323 02:38:45<+discordbot4> I always pronounced them Guwedrey and O-wac 20180323 02:39:00<+discordbot4> I say o-wake 20180323 02:39:03<+discordbot4> almost like awake 20180323 02:39:21<+discordbot4> same as not hamel's for gweddry 20180323 02:39:21<+discordbot4> Sorry if you can't tell by that. I suck at phonetic spellings. 20180323 02:39:26<+discordbot4> I tend to read it as Owah-eck. Rhymes with "heck". 20180323 02:39:35<+discordbot4> yes, that 20180323 02:39:50<+discordbot4> my phonetic spelling was bad 20180323 02:41:03<+discordbot4> gweh-dree 20180323 02:41:11<+discordbot4> o-wayk 20180323 02:41:23<+discordbot4> And originally I pronounced it "Guweh-dree" but I think it might actually be "Guwe-dree"? 20180323 02:41:52<+discordbot4> English is weird to the point that we can't tell how a word is said because the letters don't always make their sounds. 20180323 02:41:55<+discordbot4> XD 20180323 02:42:04<+discordbot4> Yeah but these aren't English. 20180323 02:42:05<+discordbot4> "O-wayk" seems right, given how ae is pronounced in things like "Aedric" or "Rachael". 20180323 02:42:13<+discordbot4> It isn't a æ afterall. 20180323 02:42:35<+discordbot4> I think the names on the gen list are Welsh-inspired, but no idea about these two unique names in particular. 20180323 02:42:49<+discordbot4> Not Hamel, what would a dwarf say instead of "that" 20180323 02:43:00<+discordbot4> Tha' 20180323 02:43:01<+discordbot4> Tha, probably. 20180323 02:43:05<+discordbot4> mkay 20180323 02:43:08<+discordbot4> thanks 20180323 02:43:11<+discordbot4> It depends on how thick their accent is. 20180323 02:43:21<+discordbot4> what about "something" 20180323 02:43:27<+discordbot4> Somethin 20180323 02:43:33<+discordbot4> Lol 20180323 02:43:34<+discordbot4> My dwarves have varying accent thickness, with Engineer Fendyrn at the very top of it. 20180323 02:43:35<+discordbot4> makes sense 20180323 02:44:26<+discordbot4> So I tend to pronounce it how I think a Scotsman would say it, since most dwarves are based on an Irish or Scottish accent. 20180323 02:44:37<+discordbot4> "Aye. The Soul Hammer is made’a the crystals commissioned by tha’ wretched lich. Lord Zhangor has put many a’them intae good use, elf. But he dinna’ ken ’tis hammer exists, or that it shall be the instrument of me revenge!" 20180323 02:44:46<+discordbot4> #notanativescotsspeaker 20180323 02:45:08<+discordbot4> But I have inserted Ain't into some dwarven texts, so I may not be the best to ask. 20180323 02:45:28<+discordbot4> 🤷 20180323 02:45:44<+discordbot4> At the bottom of the scale I have Althurin: "Though her dark influence ebbed away once she was slain by Kalehssar, the humans in the south remained under the control of a powerful group of cultists. We believe ’tis these people who later gave rise to the empire." 20180323 02:46:04<+discordbot4> Interesting. 20180323 02:47:04<+discordbot4> "Thi be an example o haw I aften put tha dialogs as. But as I said, I ha put ain't in meself quite a few times, so I ma naw be tha best ta ask." 20180323 02:47:39<+discordbot4> that's... quite hard to read 20180323 02:47:41<+discordbot4> LOL 20180323 02:49:08<+discordbot4> King Asthorgar is more balanced: "I ha’ heard enough o’ this old vile creature ye brought into my domain! Dinna’ ye realize how dangerous it is to deactivate our defenses just to let yer pet in? I would nae tolerate this folly if ye weren’t from the Quenoth kin!" 20180323 02:49:49<+discordbot4> I probably embarassed myself writing these lines and I just have no idea yet. 20180323 02:50:04<+discordbot4> I just had a cursory glance at a few sources of information on the dialect. 20180323 02:50:18<+discordbot4> Then wrote stuff. 20180323 02:50:36<+discordbot4> - every writer ever 20180323 02:50:54<+discordbot4> Well, no, some writers do a thorough research of what they're writing. 20180323 02:51:03<+discordbot4> Just not me. 20180323 02:51:08<+discordbot4> I like to write, but I can't come up with names. I often use Latin for names or just type random letters in and then reconfigure them to be how I think I want it. 20180323 02:51:13<+discordbot4> I was kidding 20180323 02:51:17<+discordbot4> Ugh, names. 20180323 02:51:29<+discordbot4> how would you pronounce yechnagoth 20180323 02:51:30<+discordbot4> I literally pulled Galas and Elynia out of the Wesnoth name gen WML. 20180323 02:51:39<+discordbot4> Yeck-nah-goth. 20180323 02:51:54<+discordbot4> 'Yeck' rhyming with 'heck'. 20180323 02:52:09<+discordbot4> Xia'el? 20180323 02:52:19<+discordbot4> X-eia-l 20180323 02:52:20<+discordbot4> She-ah-el. 20180323 02:52:21< hk238> not hamel I think that's very true, languages have qualities and names too 20180323 02:52:55<+discordbot4> (I am the authoritative source on the pronunciation of "Xia'el", for the record, since she's my character.) 20180323 02:53:04<+discordbot4> (Oh okay.) 20180323 02:53:10< hk238> Coming up with names that have a certain kind of feel to them is difficult, as it kind of implies creating a new language to refer to 20180323 02:53:37<+discordbot4> One of the best names I have found was from Latin. I was searching adjectives that described the char into there and I entered Guardian. The perfect result,, IMO, came out. Custos. 20180323 02:53:52<+discordbot4> (It's not his real name, but an alias) 20180323 02:53:55< hk238> unless of course you use names typical to some areas in the real world.. like Harry. Or Igor. Or Marcus.. 20180323 02:53:56< hk238> :D 20180323 02:54:16< hk238> but then even those are anglicized styles for the same names 20180323 02:55:10<+discordbot4> okay, more questions 20180323 02:55:14<+discordbot4> what would a dwarf use in place of "will" 20180323 02:55:18<+discordbot4> @Yumi For the record, Merthiaal is just "Mer-thee-al". 20180323 02:55:27<+discordbot4> Maybe the same or Wi' 20180323 02:55:34< hk238> I guess one thing to do is to google for something like 'italian names' 'japanese names' 'chinese names' 'greek names' 'latin names'.. maybe that's a couple too many list items as examples :D 20180323 02:55:36<+discordbot4> I actually entered my middle name into Latin because I was dry of ideas and I actually came out with a fitting result, which I was surprised at. Marcus was the result. 20180323 02:55:43<+discordbot4> Oh XD 20180323 02:56:55< hk238> then look over the lists and pick a few.. Hmm I forgot wesnoth has this cyllable based name generation though? 20180323 02:57:16< hk238> or was it some other game? 20180323 02:57:16< hk238> :D 20180323 02:57:20<+discordbot4> It does? Interesting. 20180323 02:57:38<+discordbot4> Most of the names I came up with are just gibberish from my brain's noise generator. 20180323 02:58:17< hk238> Some people have merely noise generators :D 20180323 02:58:36<+discordbot4> "Althurin"? Random. "Argan"? Random (I might've been subconsciously aware that argan is an actual thing, but I don't know.) "Nar-hamoth"? Completely random. 20180323 02:59:09<+discordbot4> "Anlindë"? I did not come up with that, someone else did for me because I needed to replace her original name. 20180323 02:59:18< hk238> Althurin and Argan sound pretty good, they're also kind of English/Norse 20180323 02:59:19<+discordbot4> It's weird for me. Like letters have a meaning. T or K is more of a harder sound for a brash/harsh personality, while L and H are softer and for more of a empathetic personality. But maybe I'm just insane and can't make sense. XD 20180323 02:59:37<+discordbot4> "King Asthorgar"? Actually a derivative of the name of the dwarf king in UtBS, I forgot what his name was. 20180323 02:59:41<+discordbot4> you can eat argan oil 20180323 02:59:41<+discordbot4> Thurongar or something. 20180323 02:59:44<+discordbot4> 😂 20180323 02:59:46<+discordbot4> Thurongar. 20180323 02:59:49< hk238> I guess Anlindë is more Norse/Germanic.. Nar-Hamoth probably has abit more.. hmm arabic? 20180323 03:00:33<+discordbot4> "Ergea"? It actually comes from "erg". 20180323 03:00:45< hk238> I mean those are good names, but at the same time they're kind of references to actual languages with some succesful fantasy tones :D 20180323 03:00:52<+discordbot4> Most people do not know what an erg is though. 20180323 03:00:59<+discordbot4> What is an erg? 20180323 03:01:07<+discordbot4> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erg 20180323 03:01:27<+discordbot4> Sounds like how a troll with a lisp would say Egg. XD 20180323 03:01:45< hk238> heh.. all I could think of was 'Er', some warrior in Greek mythology, who was fated to rise from the dead or something lke that? should probably google that :D 20180323 03:02:12< hk238> 'The Myth of Er is a tale in Greek mythology about a man who died on a battlefield and returned to life nine days later, recounting what happened in the afterlife. The word "myth" was used in the ancient Greek sense, meaning account, rather than the present-day meaning.' 20180323 03:02:12<+discordbot4> "Lyphanea"? A trivial corruption of "lyf". 20180323 03:02:24< hk238> what's a lyf ? :) 20180323 03:02:32<+discordbot4> "Hemérilyel"? A corruption of "Hemera". 20180323 03:02:47<+discordbot4> (She's even referred to as "Hemera" in several places in the code.) 20180323 03:02:52< hk238> I think you have a good noise generator :D 20180323 03:02:54<+discordbot4> Some other names I just come up with fitting names and slap on a Suffix. Like the Latin -us Example: Hemarus 20180323 03:03:36<+discordbot4> (yes I just borrowed that from the above name. Sorry, too tired to come up with one on the spot rn) 20180323 03:03:45< hk238> I suppose people who are native speakers of some exotic languages could juts use names they're used to. Most people would find them exotic, although you probably wouldnt find them as such yourself 20180323 03:04:07< hk238> consider for an example (finnish which I'm speaking) Antti, Tapio, Alvari 20180323 03:04:27< hk238> although I dont know what you think about them, but they're just everyday names 20180323 03:05:15< hk238> and to me the seem such, but I suspect the 'accent' phenomenom occurs there.. Like whenever someone native to your language, speaks english, they sound kind of weird.. but if someone from some other country speaks english, they have a cool accent. Someone else said that somewhere 20180323 03:06:28<+discordbot4> "Mal Kendria"? Random. "Ivyel"? Comes from ivy (specifically poison ivy). "Valen"? Random (I think). "Elorran"? Random. "Anya"? Actually completely deliberate. I wanted a character named Anya. Same goes for Tara. "Aradellys"? Semi-random. 20180323 03:06:44<+discordbot4> Yeah I live in Utah and I've never been out of country, so I don't have many "exotic" names here. Unless you want a name spelled wrong. We do that a ton here. I actually once met a person with the name Khaia, pronounced Kya. 20180323 03:06:56<+discordbot4> XD 20180323 03:08:15<+discordbot4> "Aradellys" is actually using a prefix I came up with ages ago to denote a "king" or "queen". The rest is just Liz, really. 20180323 03:08:25<+discordbot4> Oh, cool. 20180323 03:08:45< hk238> Mal is 'evil' or something like that in Latin I guess? Also meaning left? Maybe? Valen.. You have valentine. Equivalence.. I dont know 20180323 03:08:59<+discordbot4> "Mal" means "evil" in Spanish. 20180323 03:09:27<+discordbot4> or just bad? 20180323 03:09:28<+discordbot4> Seems to come from Latin "malus". 20180323 03:09:40<+discordbot4> No, in Spanish "bad" is "malo/mala" (gender inflections). 20180323 03:09:56< hk238> yeah I suppose it has a common root in english and spanish then.. like 'maladaptive' 'malevolent' 'malice' 'maladroit' 'maltusian trap' (ok that last one isnt) :D 20180323 03:10:04<+discordbot4> Although it can also be "mal" when used in a specific way. 20180323 03:10:11<+discordbot4> so if someone greets you with "como estas" 20180323 03:10:16<+discordbot4> you can use "muy mal" 20180323 03:10:21<+discordbot4> ? 20180323 03:10:22<+discordbot4> Yes. 20180323 03:10:24<+discordbot4> okay 20180323 03:10:27< hk238> +h 20180323 03:10:39<+discordbot4> ? 20180323 03:10:54<+discordbot4> but if you're using it to describe the state of an object it would be malo/mala? 20180323 03:11:01<+discordbot4> Yeah. 20180323 03:11:09<+discordbot4> wonderful, I haven't completely forgotten my spanish 20180323 03:11:14<+discordbot4> 😂 20180323 03:13:45<+discordbot4> Since I got "Uria" handed to me by UtBS, I started to use the "ur-" prefix to mean "first" or "most important" or "most common". 20180323 03:13:55< hk238> https://www.etymonline.com/word/mal- 20180323 03:14:22< hk238> masc. proper name, in Old Testament, the Hittite husband of Bathsheba; of non-Hebrew (possibly Horite) origin, but explained by folk etymology as Hebrew Uriyyah, literally "flame of the Lord." 20180323 03:14:28< hk238> :D 20180323 03:15:10<+discordbot4> Yeah I believe my name comes from Hebrew as well, meaning, "Son of my right hand" or "Son of my sorrow". 20180323 03:15:43<+discordbot4> For whatever reason Uria in UtBS is a female deity so I went with that. 20180323 03:15:56<+discordbot4> Uria? 20180323 03:16:06<+discordbot4> Isn't that the sun? 20180323 03:16:18<+discordbot4> what's the mention in UtBS, I forgot 20180323 03:16:21<+discordbot4> No, the suns are Naia (the artificial one) and Sela (the original one). 20180323 03:16:31<+discordbot4> What's Uria then? 20180323 03:16:44<+discordbot4> Just a non-descript evil deity. 20180323 03:16:47< hk238> oh sorry the one I pasted was 'Uriah' from online etymology directory 20180323 03:16:49<+discordbot4> "Curse Uria" etc. 20180323 03:17:15< hk238> Online etymology dictionary seems pretty good, although sometimes wiktionary entries are more extensive 20180323 03:17:17<+discordbot4> Ooh, okay. I remember them saying that. 20180323 03:17:19<+discordbot4> I just remember Eloh, Yechnagoth, Zhangor, and Griknagh. 20180323 03:17:33<+discordbot4> zhangor is such a cool name 20180323 03:17:38<+discordbot4> it fits him so well too 20180323 03:17:56<+discordbot4> Yeah I agree. 20180323 03:18:14<+discordbot4> "Through her powers of deception and guile, Uria cultivated secret groups of followers, promising to fulfill their darkest desires. [...] Uria’s followers studied the necromantic arts and raised armies of undead. [...]" 20180323 03:18:32<+discordbot4> UtBS Descending into Darkness. 20180323 03:19:06<+discordbot4> Zhangor was originally called Yanqui, but his name had to be replaced once I pointed out that it would be most commonly pronounced as "yankee". 20180323 03:19:20<+discordbot4> Interesting. 20180323 03:19:23<+discordbot4> Would Eloh be pronounced E-low elow, or E-low or elah? 20180323 03:19:31<+discordbot4> *E-lah 20180323 03:19:36<+discordbot4> (That was long after the author disappeared.) 20180323 03:20:13<+discordbot4> (I'm sure quartex would be rolling in his grave if he knew what I've done with his work ever since he left. If he were dead, that is. Hopefully he's not.) 20180323 03:20:39<+discordbot4> I assume Eloh is pronounced like "Elohim" without the last syllable. 20180323 03:21:03<+discordbot4> That's just one of the many names of the abrahamic God. 20180323 03:22:07<+discordbot4> Also would Kalenz be pronounced Kahlens, Kaylens, or Kuhlenz? 20180323 03:22:23<+discordbot4> I've always assumed the first. 20180323 03:23:04<+discordbot4> Okay. That's what I thought as well. 20180323 03:25:29<+discordbot4> Finally, "Yarae" (another of my characters) is also just random gibberish, although he was originally supposed to be "Yarael", but then I decided that given the names I had assigned to the pantheon at the time, I needed to break the pattern a bit and not do the "-el" for him. 20180323 03:25:36<+discordbot4> I believe the pronunciation should be self-evident. 20180323 03:26:44<+discordbot4> "Irdya" was also gibberish, and it wasn't "Irdya" to begin with. 20180323 03:27:14<+discordbot4> It was "Irda", but then I misspelled it in a conversation with someone who then proceeded to take the misspelled version as canon, and I did so likewise without even realizing. 20180323 03:27:57<+discordbot4> Oh wow XD 20180323 03:28:19<+discordbot4> It's "Ir-de-ah" ("ir" as in "iridescent"). 20180323 03:29:03<+discordbot4> I don't think I knew at the time that I was originally one letter away from a C&D from the Tolkien state. 20180323 03:29:26<+discordbot4> you and your fancy name meanings 20180323 03:29:50<+discordbot4> Since then I've decided that the suffix "-dya" means "place", and the prefix "Ir" means "earth". 20180323 03:29:55<+discordbot4> Meaning Irdya is the place of earth. 20180323 03:30:07<+discordbot4> Or land of earth. 20180323 03:30:14<+discordbot4> But it's not earth. It's Irdya. 20180323 03:30:17<+discordbot4> jk 20180323 03:33:28<+discordbot4> Lowercase earth. 20180323 03:33:51-!- Bonobo [~Bonobo@203.220.138.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20180323 03:33:52<+discordbot4> It's ironic because evidence suggests that Irdya is probably more water than our Earth. 20180323 03:34:07<+discordbot4> Even before the Fall. 20180323 03:34:16<+discordbot4> After the Fall I decided it's all water. 20180323 03:34:29-!- hk238 [~kvirc@unaffiliated/hk238] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20180323 03:34:37<+discordbot4> Yeah. With all those seas and rivers and swamps. XD 20180323 03:34:57<+discordbot4> Hm, no it's mostly just the Vast Ocean. 20180323 03:35:08<+discordbot4> Everything points to it being unbelievably huge. 20180323 03:35:13<+discordbot4> Like the Pacific Ocean huge. 20180323 03:35:36<+discordbot4> 🤔 meanwhile the First Cycle has a lot of land in it 20180323 03:35:44<+discordbot4> Except the only continents ever referenced in mainline must be smaller than Europe and Asia combined. 20180323 03:36:29<+discordbot4> That's pretty much the only way to explain why Wesnoth and the neighbouring elvish kingdoms and orcish lands are all so small and isolated from the rest of the world. 20180323 03:36:49<+discordbot4> Yeah. It seems you could walk across Wesnoth in just a month or two. XD 20180323 03:36:52<+discordbot4> The Great Continent is either too small or mostly uninhabitable. 20180323 03:37:41<+discordbot4> The Old Continent must've been smaller than the Great Continent because otherwise the Islefolk wouldn't have decided to call the new one "Great": 20180323 03:37:47<+discordbot4> That's my theory at least. 20180323 03:39:01<+discordbot4> Other people certainly have their own headcanons in that regard. I believe before Orbivm was moved to a new world altogether, it handled a concept of a ridiculously big Old Continent. 20180323 03:39:15<+discordbot4> As for me, I decided that the Old Continent sucks so I sank it. 20180323 03:39:31<+discordbot4> Out of sight, out of mind. 20180323 03:40:16<+discordbot4> I'm pretty sure I'm allowed to ignore the laws of physics and sink whole continents as the creator goddess of my own unofficial canon. 20180323 03:40:32<+discordbot4> It's weird how small the world is. I kinda wonder how long it would take to walk from Barag Gor to Westin. 20180323 03:41:30<+discordbot4> HttT makes it seem like traveling from Aethenwood to Dwarven Doors takes approximately the span from summer to winter if we were to use our own calendar. 20180323 03:42:27<+discordbot4> (That also means that Li'sar is one ridiculously persistent commander, to spend months chasing afer Konrad and company, braving the harsh northern winter and all.) 20180323 03:42:40<+discordbot4> So that makes up about a quarter or less of the distance of the trip, and that takes 6 months. 20180323 03:42:59<+discordbot4> (Or she's just angry at Konrad for beating her XD) 20180323 03:43:17<+discordbot4> Napoleon? 20180323 03:43:30<+discordbot4> We also know that Dwarven Doors was sufficiently far away from Wesnoth for them to never find out about Asheviere's power-grab before being overrun with orcs themselves years later. 20180323 03:43:33<+discordbot4> well, I guess she didn't get wiped out by the winter, so maybe not 20180323 03:43:45<+discordbot4> Yeah. 20180323 03:44:09<+discordbot4> The terrain probably plays a bigger role in all of this than the distances. 20180323 03:44:23<+discordbot4> E.g. news seem to travel much faster between Elensefar and Weldyn. 20180323 03:44:48<+discordbot4> On the other hand, it's very unclear exactly how long it took Kalenz to reach Wesmere from Lintanir at the start of LoW. 20180323 03:45:15<+discordbot4> And they did have to cross the Heart Mountains, which aren't exactly the best terrain for elves to ride across. 20180323 03:45:54<+discordbot4> In-game it seems like it wasn't much more than a few weeks. 20180323 03:46:04<+discordbot4> So I think it's safe to say, based on that, if you don't get killed by Orcs, Undead, Bandits, Dwarves, Elves, Gryphons, Spiders, Wolves, Trolls, Ogres, Drakes, or Saurians it would take about a year or two to walk from Barag Gor to Westin. If you take only flat land, maybe nine months. 20180323 03:46:16<+discordbot4> Hi all, what's up? 20180323 03:47:17<+discordbot4> We're throwing darts at the big board of Irdyan geography and trying to see what sticks. 20180323 03:47:18<+discordbot4> that's a lot of stuff you can get killed by... 20180323 03:48:26<+discordbot4> it would be like oregon trail except with all those monsters added 20180323 03:48:27<+discordbot4> :P 20180323 03:48:49<+discordbot4> There's a bunch more. If you want to be safe, just sail off. It's gotta be safer than Irdya. On second thought, there are the Cuttlefish, Sea Serpents, Water Serpents, Drakes, Undead, Gryphons, and a whole isle of Orcs. 20180323 03:48:50<+discordbot4> XD 20180323 03:49:18<+discordbot4> xD 20180323 03:49:22<+discordbot4> (Undead can enter deep water so if you are really bad at sailing they could catch up to you) 20180323 03:49:24<+discordbot4> XD 20180323 03:49:29<+discordbot4> oh damn, hahaha! 20180323 03:49:33<+discordbot4> Skeleton army XD 20180323 03:51:12<+discordbot4> Maybe just go live with the Elves, they seem safe. But on the other hand there are....okay I'll stop now. XD 20180323 04:05:09-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180323 04:05:15-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20180323 04:05:16<+discordbot4> Dragons trying to kill the elves 20180323 04:05:27<+discordbot4> Orcs trying to kill the elves 20180323 04:05:33<+discordbot4> Saurians trying to kill the elves 20180323 04:05:40<+discordbot4> come live with the faerie 20180323 04:05:43<+discordbot4> Undead and elves trying to kill the elves... 20180323 04:05:43<+discordbot4> they'll treat you nicely 20180323 04:05:56<+discordbot4> Even with these little nerdouts I go on, I still think the game is amazing with an incredible fanbase. We don't pervert the work, we excel it. 20180323 04:08:01<+discordbot4> the work is fanmade 20180323 04:08:30<+discordbot4> we all contribute to it over time 20180323 04:09:32<+discordbot4> Yeah. 20180323 04:09:54<+discordbot4> It's quite unique for a game. Some devs don't even listen to their fanbase at all. 20180323 04:13:04-!- Bonobo [~Bonobo@129.127.113.241] has joined #wesnoth 20180323 04:16:39-!- dobson [~dobson@68.ip-149-56-14.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20180323 04:20:15-!- dobson [~dobson@68.ip-149-56-14.net] has joined #wesnoth 20180323 04:38:04<+discordbot4> How is Nym pronounced? Niem? 20180323 04:47:09<+discordbot4> I always pronounced it Nimm 20180323 04:47:10<+discordbot4> lol 20180323 04:47:16<+discordbot4> that's a cute name by the way 20180323 04:47:47<+discordbot4> I've always assumed it's "nim" as in "nimble" 20180323 04:48:04<+discordbot4> (Let's face it, that's probably exactly what the author was thinking when he came up with the name.) 20180323 04:48:08<+discordbot4> That's what I thought. 20180323 04:48:15<+discordbot4> Oh yeah, XD 20180323 04:48:17<+discordbot4> xD 20180323 04:48:41<+discordbot4> I don't even know what pronounciation I was thinking of by Niem. 20180323 04:48:49<+discordbot4> XD 20180323 04:49:43<+discordbot4> well Niemals means never in German lol xD 20180323 04:49:50<+discordbot4> I think 20180323 04:50:39<+discordbot4> Oh wow XD' 20180323 04:51:30<+discordbot4> What about Kaleh? Is it pronounced Kahluh? 20180323 04:56:37-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has quit [Quit: And lo! The computer falls into a deep sleep, to awake again some other day!] 20180323 04:56:57<+discordbot4> no idea lol xD 20180323 04:56:59<+discordbot4> ;3 20180323 05:14:45-!- Bonobo [~Bonobo@129.127.113.241] has quit [Ping timeout: 263 seconds] 20180323 07:06:42<+discordbot4> Great stuff, @Yumi ! 20180323 08:04:18-!- Bonobo [~Bonobo@203.220.138.198] has joined #wesnoth 20180323 08:41:44-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth 20180323 08:51:02<+discordbot4> i pronounce it as Kayleh 20180323 08:51:27<+discordbot4> though i think the right pronunciation would be Khaleh 20180323 10:00:55-!- octalot [~steve@77.119.131.210.wireless.dyn.drei.com] has joined #wesnoth 20180323 10:16:32-!- octalot [~steve@77.119.131.210.wireless.dyn.drei.com] has quit [] 20180323 10:16:48-!- octalot [~steve@77.119.131.210.wireless.dyn.drei.com] has joined #wesnoth 20180323 10:35:52-!- Narrat [~Narrat@p5DCC66D5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth 20180323 10:39:32<+discordbot4> i feel like the Quenoth elves would have a lot of arabic influences, so i think Khaleh is the right pronunciation 20180323 12:19:21-!- Bonobo [~Bonobo@203.220.138.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20180323 12:20:03-!- Bonobo [~Bonobo@203.220.138.198] has joined #wesnoth 20180323 12:27:26< galegosimpatico> I don't see the point. There are deserts all over the world, in every continent. Quenoth could be draw inspiration from any tribe or civilization from any desert. Also whatever you are understanding for _arabic_ is the result of lots centuries of previous history and civilizations. 20180323 12:46:50-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180323 12:54:55< zookeeper> i've also never understood the tendency to draw influences for unrelated aspects of a fictional culture from the same source. if you have a desert-dwelling fictional culture then sure it might make sense to have their clothing inspired by real-world desert garb, but language? that's completely separate and it makes equally much sense for a fictional desert-dwelling culture to have a language 20180323 12:54:56< zookeeper> resembling japanese than arabic. 20180323 12:59:30< zookeeper> i find it very uninspired when fictional cultures are too closely modelled after one specific real-world culture. it's not exactly unheard of for a fantasy setting to have, for example, an eastern culture with samurai-esque equipment and architecture, a strict honor culture, a look that's ethnically asian and probably even their voice actors have a corresponding accent. and that's about as 20180323 12:59:30< zookeeper> dull and unoriginal as you can get. 20180323 13:01:25< zookeeper> instead, you _could_ mix and match different elements and find interesting combinations. 20180323 13:01:42< DeFender1031> I agree. The whole point is "fantasy" is to create a world that isn't identical in every way to reality. 20180323 13:22:10< zookeeper> for example, you could have a people with clothing that looks arabic, a strict samurai-esque honor culture, chinese-style armor, and raiding of neighboring (or distant) lands around their desert like vikings. 20180323 13:24:48< DeFender1031> So... Klingons? 20180323 13:25:44< zookeeper> maybe! 20180323 13:27:04< galegosimpatico> Dunefolk? 20180323 13:28:20< zookeeper> i think your question must be missing a few words? 20180323 13:30:20-!- octalot [~steve@77.119.131.210.wireless.dyn.drei.com] has quit [] 20180323 13:31:12<+discordbot4> question, how do i access my campaign's stuff in the editor? like, units and stuff 20180323 13:31:26<+discordbot4> i have made quite a bit of progress, made a few units, a few images, etc. 20180323 13:32:03< Soliton> the editor is mostly for maps though there is some support for scenario stuff i believe. 20180323 13:32:55<+discordbot4> i knw 20180323 13:32:58<+discordbot4> *know 20180323 13:33:03<+discordbot4> but i mean, accessing my own scenario's resources 20180323 13:33:08<+discordbot4> (i mean, campaign) 20180323 13:33:16<+discordbot4> i can access mainline but not my custom stuff 20180323 13:36:09-!- Haudegen [~quassel@212-186-77-29.static.upcbusiness.at] has joined #wesnoth 20180323 13:47:31< zookeeper> well, you need to make the editor aware of your custom units/terrains. i don't know if there are any campaigns that have units placeable in the editor, but for terrains you can find plenty of examples. 20180323 13:50:26< zookeeper> yeah, for units all you need to do is include the unit types as usual even when only the editor is loaded (#ifdef EDITOR etc) 20180323 13:50:43< zookeeper> plus binary_paths for the images and so forth, of course. 20180323 14:31:20-!- DeFender1031 [~DeFender1@dsl217-132-38-129.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit [Quit: I'm not back now.] 20180323 15:42:05-!- Bonobo [~Bonobo@203.220.138.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20180323 16:47:38-!- Haudegen [~quassel@212-186-77-29.static.upcbusiness.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180323 18:21:02-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has joined #wesnoth 20180323 18:24:55-!- bassgoon [~bassgoon@unaffiliated/bassgoon] has joined #wesnoth 20180323 18:47:13-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180323 18:47:19-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20180323 18:56:53-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180323 18:56:59-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20180323 18:59:49<+discordbot4> https://www.qarnot.com/crypto-heater_qc1/ 20180323 18:59:54<+discordbot4> It's creative, at least 20180323 18:59:55<+discordbot4> xD 20180323 19:01:12<+discordbot4> Not a bad idea. It's no less efficient than a traditional electric heater, but also earns its owner money while in use. 20180323 19:19:06< bassgoon> hmmm, the ios version is newer than the lastest dev build available on the site 20180323 19:20:54< Soliton> 1.13.12 is going to be announced real soon now, probably. 20180323 19:21:16< Soliton> the binaries should already be on sourceforge. 20180323 19:23:19< bassgoon> sure enough 20180323 19:48:19-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180323 19:48:26-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20180323 19:57:12-!- hk238 [~kvirc@a458.ip20.netikka.fi] has joined #wesnoth 20180323 19:57:13-!- hk238 [~kvirc@a458.ip20.netikka.fi] has quit [Changing host] 20180323 19:57:13-!- hk238 [~kvirc@unaffiliated/hk238] has joined #wesnoth 20180323 19:57:18< hk238> hi 20180323 20:07:50< janebot> Tweet (by @Wesnoth) Wesnoth 1.13.12 (1.14 RC 1) is out! https://r.wesnoth.org/t47917 #gamedev [ https://twitter.com/Wesnoth/status/977275748418445312 ] 20180323 20:09:02<+discordbot4> It's great 20180323 20:37:45< bassgoon> Soliton: yeah, and that fixed the problem I was having, which was farmland and villages were becoming impassable for some reason, quite arbitrarily it seemed 20180323 20:38:22< Soliton> cool. indeed that was fixed. 20180323 20:44:23-!- octalot [~steve@178.165.129.225.wireless.dyn.drei.com] has joined #wesnoth 20180323 21:07:28<+discordbot4> woot 20180323 21:21:34-!- claymore [~claymore@unaffiliated/claymore] has joined #wesnoth 20180323 21:47:25<+discordbot4> hey I have a quick WML question. I'm trying to use [harm_unit] to reduce a unit's HP to 1, but 'amount=$this_unit.hitpoints-1' just gives errors, I guess you're not supposed to put an arithmetic expression in there? How would I do it? 20180323 21:48:17<+discordbot4> "$($this_unit.hitpoints-1)" I'd imagine 20180323 21:48:20< Soliton> formula might be supported there. 20180323 21:48:51<+discordbot4> oh ok I'll try that thanks. what does the $ do again? kind of new to WML 20180323 21:49:29<+discordbot4> It's WFL (Wesnoth Formula Language) 20180323 21:49:37<+discordbot4> https://wiki.wesnoth.org/Wesnoth_Formula_Language 20180323 21:50:01<+discordbot4> it worked! thanks :) 20180323 21:50:15<+discordbot4> np 20180323 22:15:15-!- octalot [~steve@178.165.129.225.wireless.dyn.drei.com] has quit [] 20180323 22:26:27-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20180323 22:47:00-!- claymore [~claymore@unaffiliated/claymore] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20180323 22:57:08-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180323 22:57:14-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20180323 23:32:41-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has joined #wesnoth 20180323 23:52:53< Ravana_> is WFL syntax designed from any existing language? 20180323 23:54:40< Soliton> it's inspired by the formula language in silvertree, i think. 20180323 23:55:20< Soliton> https://code.google.com/archive/p/silvertree/wikis/SilverTreeFormula.wiki 20180323 23:55:56< Soliton> not sure from what that is exactly inspired. 20180323 23:56:57< Soliton> @Denivarius should know. 20180323 23:58:36<+discordbot4> @Ravana mostly it was an attempt to make a Haskell or Lisp like language with more accessible syntax. Probably the closest inspiration of the syntax is the formula languages common in spreadsheets such as Excel or LibreOffice 20180323 23:58:55<+discordbot4> I knew that if statement looked familiar 20180323 23:58:56<+discordbot4> lol --- Log closed Sat Mar 24 00:00:13 2018