--- Log opened Wed Mar 28 00:00:18 2018 20180328 02:12:42-!- Bonobo [~Bonobo@203.220.138.198] has joined #wesnoth 20180328 03:00:52-!- fortfoskett [~Jabo@209.6.91.232] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20180328 03:01:12-!- fortfoskett [~Jabo@209.6.91.232] has joined #wesnoth 20180328 04:26:35-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has quit [Quit: And lo! The computer falls into a deep sleep, to awake again some other day!] 20180328 05:01:03<+discordbot> fixed 20180328 06:16:08-!- fortfoskett [~Jabo@209.6.91.232] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20180328 06:28:16-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth 20180328 06:31:21-!- ToBeCloud [uid51591@wikimedia/ToBeFree] has joined #wesnoth 20180328 06:31:27-!- Bonobo [~Bonobo@203.220.138.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20180328 06:31:58-!- Bonobo [~Bonobo@203.220.138.198] has joined #wesnoth 20180328 06:45:12-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [] 20180328 07:11:24-!- Choicerer [6dca6b0f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.202.107.15] has joined #wesnoth 20180328 07:12:15< Choicerer> Hi. 20180328 07:12:53< Choicerer> I'm curious as to why you don't take action to prevent players from playing in the same games with multiple nicknames? 20180328 07:13:54< Choicerer> Multiplayer is really pointless this way. 20180328 07:19:07<+discordbot> a warning is already shown if multiple users in a network game share an ip, if that's what you mean 20180328 07:19:25<+discordbot> if the other players disregard the warning, then they must be fine with it 20180328 07:19:38<+discordbot> then what's the problem 20180328 07:20:48< Choicerer> No, I've been told by Ravana the warning will only appear on this person joining the game. 20180328 07:21:05< Choicerer> I.e if this person joins first, the players who join afterwards don't get it. 20180328 07:21:21< Choicerer> The mods however have access to the clone command. 20180328 07:21:45< Choicerer> That's point no 1. 20180328 07:22:06< Choicerer> Point no 2 is, if somebody has a smartphone, they can join the same game with another ip. 20180328 07:22:39< Choicerer> I'm saying this, because there is currently a guy on Multiplayer who does these things like Hell. 20180328 07:22:54<+discordbot> i'm sure it was stated more clearly in a faq somewhere, but wesnoth is not really intended to prevent cheating comprehensively, it's impossible 20180328 07:22:55< Choicerer> But no action is really taken to do anything about it. 20180328 07:23:04<+discordbot> Regarding point 2, what are we supposed to do about it? 20180328 07:23:13< Choicerer> You can geolocate the ip. 20180328 07:23:23<+discordbot> It's outright offensive to say that we aren't taking any action. 20180328 07:23:32< Choicerer> Look, I don't mean to be offensive. 20180328 07:23:39<+discordbot> geolocate 😄 20180328 07:23:45<+discordbot> this is your idea of identity proof? 20180328 07:23:47< Choicerer> But the thing is, there is a guy right now there who does this like Hell. 20180328 07:23:56<+discordbot> Geolocation would cause problems if there are multiple players legitimately close to each other (e.g. a LAN party). 20180328 07:23:59< Choicerer> No, it is not, but it gives you a clearer picture. 20180328 07:23:59<+discordbot> AND EVEN THEN, maybe he uses a vpn 20180328 07:24:30< Choicerer> It is possible to get a pretty accurate picture at least if you have a player who does this notoriously. 20180328 07:24:44<+discordbot> eg consider a 1v1 match with fog, like they usually have: seeing under dog gives a significant advantage, but that is trivial to do - you just load the savegame in another instance of wesnoth client 20180328 07:24:49-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has joined #wesnoth 20180328 07:24:50< Choicerer> There is a player right now who does and I have every indication of this. 20180328 07:25:12< Choicerer> Yes, I know it. 20180328 07:25:13<+discordbot> it would take colossal effort to fix that, i imagine the entire game would have had to be built up differently 20180328 07:25:42< Choicerer> Still, don't you think playing in the same game with a player who is playing multiple sides in multiple teams is kind of pointless? 20180328 07:25:50< Choicerer> It's totally pointless. 20180328 07:26:07<+discordbot> one solution for that is registered usernames 20180328 07:26:15< Choicerer> Now, if a person does this A LOT. It's not really that hard to spot it and take action, is it. 20180328 07:26:29< Choicerer> Yes, that would help. 20180328 07:26:31<+discordbot> if you register a username, then you gain a reputation for not doing bad things over time if you do not do bad things 20180328 07:26:40< Choicerer> Oh, you mean the way it is right now. 20180328 07:26:44<+discordbot> yes 20180328 07:27:30< Choicerer> There isn't a way to know that anyhow. 20180328 07:27:37<+discordbot> huh? 20180328 07:27:49< Choicerer> You can register a username and use 20 other accounts and enter the same games and break them. 20180328 07:28:06< Choicerer> For real, though, it is quite easy to detect a person who does this notoriously. 20180328 07:28:19< Choicerer> I mean, compulsively. 20180328 07:28:21<+discordbot> but if you are found out, then the implicit reputation for that registered username goes down 20180328 07:28:45<+discordbot> while for unregistered usernames, of course, there's no reputation to go down because there's nothing permanent enough 20180328 07:28:55< Choicerer> Implicit reputation? If he's a cheater, why is he still in the game? 20180328 07:29:09<+discordbot> why do others play with that person? 20180328 07:29:23< Choicerer> Because they don't have any idea they are cheating? 20180328 07:29:37<+discordbot> tell them that, then 20180328 07:29:39< Choicerer> Okay, now suppose a moderator DOES something about this. 20180328 07:29:43<+discordbot> Didn't you just say it's easy to detect? 20180328 07:29:45< Choicerer> I'm not a mod. 20180328 07:29:56< Choicerer> The person can create another registered account. Yes. 20180328 07:30:05< Choicerer> I do believe so. If a person does this a lot. 20180328 07:30:51< Choicerer> Not by regular users though, because they don't have access to players' ips. 20180328 07:30:59<+discordbot> isn't this why there's the ability to report people to the mods? 20180328 07:31:05< Choicerer> I have done it. 20180328 07:31:16< Choicerer> But the question remains, why can this guy be on the loose. 20180328 07:31:24< Choicerer> Breaking games like Hell. 20180328 07:31:56< Choicerer> are regular users who have little way of knowing this supposed to be taking care of this? 20180328 07:45:56<+discordbot> hey yo, I have a question :3 20180328 07:46:01<+discordbot> in chess competitions 20180328 07:46:15<+discordbot> top players have all these diets and exercise activities and stuff 20180328 07:46:29<+discordbot> are there any diets for wesnoth or anything like that, that top players use? 20180328 07:46:33<+discordbot> would it help alertness? 20180328 07:47:10<+discordbot> I doubt it. Wesnoth isn't anywhere near popular enough for that. 20180328 07:48:22<+discordbot> ah okay interesting 20180328 07:58:01-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth 20180328 08:10:49<+discordbot> staying at the top is taxing. top wesnoth players play wesnoth 24/7, without sleeping, there's no time to eat either 20180328 08:11:11<+discordbot> lol 20180328 08:12:58<+discordbot> there's someone on server 1.10.7 playing a game 20180328 08:13:29<+discordbot> failing that, hexagon cookies: https://i.weddingomania.com/2017/06/28-hexagon-edible-flower-cookies.jpg 20180328 08:16:51<+discordbot> the master wesnoth player moves the hexagon cookies around, deep in thought. while others look on, thinking he's playing with his food, he is actually devising new strategies 20180328 08:22:10<+discordbot> Since say he never sleeps, but he does. What do you think he's doing when he's playing you? You might be ranked #2, but what does that matter to him? 20180328 08:26:26-!- Choicerer [6dca6b0f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.202.107.15] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20180328 08:45:54-!- ToBeCloud [uid51591@wikimedia/ToBeFree] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 20180328 09:22:48<+discordbot> Does anyone know about bugs on 1.13.12, specifically the map "A New Land?" I get defeat on scenario start, can't choose leader and can't choose empty for player slot (only Network or Local player work). 20180328 09:24:20<+discordbot> Such a bug hasn't been reported AFAIK. 20180328 09:24:26<+discordbot> Please file a bug report. 20180328 09:25:04< zookeeper> if you want, i can check it out right now in case the fix is simple 20180328 09:25:41<+discordbot> Hmm. A New Land hasn't been changed for two years according to Git history. Most likely some kind of API change broke it. 20180328 09:25:53< zookeeper> it has been 20180328 09:25:59< zookeeper> recently, even 20180328 09:26:07<+discordbot> https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commits/1.14/data/campaigns/The_Rise_Of_Wesnoth/scenarios/15_A_New_Land.cfg 20180328 09:26:14< zookeeper> the MP scenario 20180328 09:26:19<+discordbot> thread was at least 20180328 09:27:50<+discordbot> zookeeper: Ah, you mean this scenario. https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commits/1.14/data/multiplayer/scenarios/4p_A_New_Land.cfg 20180328 09:28:27< zookeeper> yeah. you don't typically choose leaders or empty for player slots in a SP campaign, after all :p 20180328 09:33:44< zookeeper> ah, i think that must be because the player sides have faction_lock=yes but no leader type defined, or something like that. 20180328 09:41:14< zookeeper> well, this is definitely somehow very messed up. 20180328 09:45:55< zookeeper> okay, so, just removing force_lock_settings=yes fixes the problem. now, what broke _that_... (since i doubt it's been broken since i added that key) 20180328 09:47:21<+discordbot> i drink tea... 20180328 09:47:31<+discordbot> sometimes when i play.. 20180328 09:47:45<+discordbot> xD 20180328 09:50:28<+discordbot> By the way same ip multiaccounts should only be disallowed if host has a problem with it, of course if host and the player cooperate to do that sort of thing (which seems incredibly stupid and unlikely) then if somebody like Choicerer minds that obviously he should not play in the games of that guy 20180328 09:50:41<+discordbot> and there was so much pointless talk... 20180328 09:51:50<+discordbot> it would make more sense if he meant non same ip multiaccounts which would make on the other hand would actually make some sense 20180328 09:52:48< zookeeper> anyone just happen to have 1.13.10 and/or 1.13.11 installed to check whether ANL works there? 20180328 09:53:31<+discordbot> i can 20180328 09:53:38<+discordbot> i will probably find at least 1 bug 20180328 09:53:56<+discordbot> on the server? 20180328 09:54:01< zookeeper> local will do 20180328 09:54:04<+discordbot> well i have 1.12.12 20180328 09:54:06<+discordbot> if that works 20180328 09:54:11<+discordbot> *13 20180328 09:54:27<+discordbot> i uinstalled .11 actually 20180328 09:54:58<+discordbot> so if you meant .11 then i cant sadly 20180328 09:55:09< zookeeper> okay, and yes i did 20180328 10:18:16< zookeeper> @humpty_hump, okay so i have a fix for the problem so there's no need for a report unless you particularly want to make one anyway. 20180328 10:20:55<+discordbot> about the cookies - When you were delighting in the taste of your food I studied the hexes xD 20180328 10:22:17<+discordbot> That's zookeeper for ya. Thanks. 20180328 10:22:41<+discordbot> Now I can watch Douyu Super League Day 5 20180328 10:28:21-!- Appleman1234 [~quassel@124x38x163x22.ap124.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.] 20180328 11:12:10<+discordbot> wait so zookeeper just directly added a fix 20180328 11:12:13<+discordbot> to the version 20180328 11:12:14<+discordbot> or what 20180328 11:13:01<+discordbot> "I have a fix" usually means "I have a fix here on my PC, I didn't upload it yet". 20180328 11:23:39-!- Appleman1234 [~quassel@124x38x163x22.ap124.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #wesnoth 20180328 11:32:03-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20180328 11:42:50< Soliton> you should see the same IP message even when joining the game later. if that is not so that'd be good to know. 20180328 11:55:21< Ravana_> you won't see chat log of unstarted game when you join 20180328 12:00:28< Soliton> hmm, it's not recorded before the game starts indeed. we could either record at least those same IP messages or do the check again when starting the game. 20180328 12:04:19< Soliton> ah right, it's a different format before start so recording is not really possible. but the check at start would be. 20180328 12:30:59-!- Haudegen [~quassel@212-186-77-29.static.upcbusiness.at] has joined #wesnoth 20180328 12:34:31-!- fortfoskett [~Jabo@209.6.91.232] has joined #wesnoth 20180328 13:28:47< Bonobo> zookeeper, on a local game on 1.13.11 the sides, colours and income are locked, as is the gender of chooseable leaders 20180328 13:29:04< Bonobo> turn 1 starts as normal 20180328 13:31:01< Bonobo> on a server, the sides can't be left empty but can be given to players 20180328 13:31:22< Bonobo> also, you can select any leader instead of just loyalist leaders 20180328 13:33:57< zookeeper> Bonobo, oh, okay, good to know. 20180328 15:15:26<+discordbot> Do we need to resurrect my PR? 20180328 15:38:59-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180328 15:39:07-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20180328 16:17:33-!- gfgtdf [~chatzilla@x4e36815a.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #wesnoth 20180328 16:17:49< gfgtdf> zookeeper: did you test adding leader_lock=false? 20180328 16:18:09< gfgtdf> zookeeper: iirc leader_lock deaults to firce_lock_settings 20180328 16:18:56< gfgtdf> zookeeper: we coudl change that though (not making leader/faction_lock) defulting to force_lock_settings 20180328 16:46:25-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180328 16:46:31-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20180328 16:46:35< zookeeper> gfgtdf, yes, my current fix is in fact setting that 20180328 16:46:58< zookeeper> (also controller_lock=no) 20180328 17:10:46-!- Bonobo [~Bonobo@203.220.138.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20180328 18:55:55-!- Haudegen [~quassel@212-186-77-29.static.upcbusiness.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180328 19:55:27-!- gfgtdf [~chatzilla@x4e36815a.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.93 [Firefox 52.7.3/20180322140748]] 20180328 20:01:09-!- Guest51402 [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has joined #wesnoth 20180328 20:13:42-!- Guest51402 is now known as Haudegen 20180328 20:24:27-!- deekay [~deekayish@public-gprs378280.centertel.pl] has joined #wesnoth 20180328 20:38:20-!- Bhoren [~Bhoren_wh@2a01:e0a:c:2150:b966:525d:fc1f:49e5] has joined #wesnoth 20180328 20:40:25-!- Bonobo [~Bonobo@203.220.138.198] has joined #wesnoth 20180328 21:22:08-!- deekay [~deekayish@public-gprs378280.centertel.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20180328 21:43:41-!- Bhoren [~Bhoren_wh@2a01:e0a:c:2150:b966:525d:fc1f:49e5] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20180328 23:54:08-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has joined #wesnoth 20180328 23:56:48-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] --- Log closed Thu Mar 29 00:00:20 2018