--- Log opened Sat Mar 31 00:00:22 2018 20180331 01:01:33-!- Bonobo [~Bonobo@203.220.138.198] has joined #wesnoth 20180331 01:28:53-!- Narrat [~Narrat@p5DCC68B4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance.] 20180331 03:29:56-!- synthpopisback [~synthpopi@cpe-2606-A000-7947-5000-FD08-393C-509E-AFCE.dyn6.twc.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20180331 05:11:16-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180331 05:11:22-!- janebot_ [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20180331 05:11:22-!- janebot_ is now known as janebot 20180331 05:35:21-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180331 05:35:30-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20180331 05:47:08<+discordbot> Maybe we will see a large group of Chinese players coming to wesnoth after launching on steam 20180331 05:48:37-!- celticminstrel is now known as celmin|sleep 20180331 06:35:46-!- tomlukeywood [~tom@host-92-19-232-58.static.as13285.net] has joined #wesnoth 20180331 07:17:27-!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20180331 07:23:38<+discordbot> why would that be? 20180331 07:26:15-!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #wesnoth 20180331 07:27:14<+discordbot> PUBG has made Steam quite popular in China. A large portion of Steam users are Chinese. 20180331 07:28:02<+discordbot> ah 20180331 08:19:55<+discordbot> Actually. i am Chinese 20180331 08:21:16<+discordbot> And we already have 2000 Chinese players 20180331 08:21:29<+discordbot> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/231976805987385345/429555822021050369/QQ20180331162059.png 20180331 08:38:31-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth 20180331 08:41:16<+discordbot> I see PUBG as another name of Evil since it doesn't support Linux 20180331 08:42:07<+discordbot> And that's why you've got "loony" in your username I suppose. 20180331 08:46:44<+discordbot> No, that's because I like doing too many dumb jokes and suffix them with 😛 But the above statement wasn't one 20180331 08:46:48<+discordbot> there was some japanese game that used wesnoth's graphics 20180331 08:47:00<+discordbot> chinese' 20180331 08:47:15<+discordbot> The irony is that it sounds like a dumb joke. 20180331 08:47:47<+discordbot> no it sounds like clever joke 😛 20180331 08:48:07<+discordbot> Throwing terms around like "Evil" and "Good" only makes you sound like a religious nutjob. Not to mention that any software engineer with some actual experience can tell that Linux is a nightmare by design to work with. 20180331 08:48:28<+discordbot> most usages of "evil" are comedic these days, at least on the internet 20180331 08:48:39<+discordbot> Basically, you have macOS < Windows < Linux (which is actually like a million different OSes) on the scale of QA testing difficulty. 20180331 08:48:41<+discordbot> so it generally won't make you sound like a religious nutjob 20180331 08:49:24<+discordbot> I don't care 20180331 08:49:37<+discordbot> exact reason I'm exlcuded doesn't matter to me 😛 20180331 08:50:31<+discordbot> Words don't exist in a vacuum. 20180331 08:50:47<+discordbot> The world would be a much better place if people made a conscious effort to remember that. 20180331 08:50:57<+discordbot> sure 20180331 08:51:11<+discordbot> words are waves of air, no air in a vacuum 😛 20180331 08:51:25<+discordbot> besides, steam runtime and flatpak are tremendous step forward wrt distro compatibility 20180331 08:51:59<+discordbot> Oh yeah, Steam Runtime is an enormous step forward being under the control of a single vendor who can't ever make its mind up about how much it cares about Linux. 20180331 08:52:28<+discordbot> freedesktop runtime is more complete anyway 20180331 08:52:39<+discordbot> I have a lot of things I could say about Valve but I'd probably hurt some people's feelings here. 20180331 08:52:40<+discordbot> maybe valve should just reuse stuff from flatpak 20180331 08:54:00<+discordbot> Anyway, if some company decided to exclude me even though they think they have a good technical reason, it doesn't mean I should like it 20180331 08:54:58<+discordbot> valve brought steam to linux, and have people working on the opensource AMD driver, so they're alright 20180331 08:54:59<+discordbot> That's just how world works: you do something other people don't like and in response they express you their displeasure 20180331 08:56:26<+discordbot> The irony here is that for the time being it'd be much easier for Wesnoth to support Windows only. 20180331 08:57:00<+discordbot> ? iirc there was like 1 person who knew how to compile it for win 20180331 08:57:09<+discordbot> Most of the active engine developers use Windows and have very limited resources to test on the many Linux configurations that the game needs to support. 20180331 08:57:38<+discordbot> I'm hoping things will miraculously work out fine when the OpenGL port gets merged, but as always I'm highly skeptical of the odds. 20180331 08:58:39<+discordbot> Active Linux devs... you don't count because you mostly only do packaging and build toolchain stuff, I don't count because I mostly just keep campaignd on life support, AI is kind of half there half not there. jyrki is a half-time Linux user I believe. 20180331 08:59:00<+discordbot> The (very limited) rest is all Windows users. 20180331 08:59:53<+discordbot> And the problem with Linux as a whole is that the more hardware-dependant your software becomes (see also OpenGL), the harder it becomes to support it in all advertised configurations. 20180331 09:00:21<+discordbot> Naturally half of the blame for that is on NVIDIA's anti-competitive practices. 20180331 09:00:31<+discordbot> But not all of it. 20180331 09:00:43<+discordbot> actually vultraz is the only pure windows dev atm 😛 20180331 09:00:54<+discordbot> That is so incorrect. 20180331 09:00:57<+discordbot> Trying to suppose 50 different distros is probably a bad idea to start with 20180331 09:01:00<+discordbot> *support 20180331 09:01:13<+discordbot> Unless you arbitrarily decided gfgtdf is not a developer and neither is Greg. 20180331 09:01:39<+discordbot> Also, it says a lot that people consider vultraz to be the most active dev. 20180331 09:01:41<+discordbot> well not sure what gfgtdf is using atm 20180331 09:01:49<+discordbot> gfgtdf has always been using Windows. 20180331 09:01:55<+discordbot> Everyone in the dev team knows this. 20180331 09:02:17<+discordbot> who's greg btw? 20180331 09:02:27<+discordbot> Tad Carlucci. 20180331 09:02:32<+discordbot> ah yes 20180331 09:02:32<+discordbot> Tad Carlucci/Gregory Lundberg 20180331 09:02:42<+discordbot> (Hint: his real name is not Tad.) 20180331 09:02:54<+discordbot> What does Tad Calucci mean then? 20180331 09:03:08<+discordbot> Oh and let's not forget the other most important dev of all. 20180331 09:03:35<+discordbot> He's not an engine coder but might as well be considered one since he does too much that relies on the engine for certain things. This name rhymes with "beeper". 20180331 09:03:46<+discordbot> there's also wedge 😛 20180331 09:04:03<+discordbot> zookeeper doesn't do much actual C++ work though 20180331 09:04:05<+discordbot> In a corner you've got Celtic using macOS. 20180331 09:04:27<+discordbot> No but he does too much that depends on the engine like I just said. 20180331 09:04:37<+discordbot> And pretty sure greg/tad has some posix background too 20180331 09:05:04<+discordbot> Last time I checked he primarily uses MS tools on Windows. 20180331 09:05:26<+discordbot> the thing is if zookeeper changed os he wouldn't even notice any changes wrt his wesnoth work 😛 20180331 09:05:43<+discordbot> He will not change OS. 20180331 09:06:31<+discordbot> That's not a thing you can realistically ask from anyone unless you can make them feel compelled to partake in the huge workflow disruption that such things come with. 20180331 09:07:36< zookeeper> i think being unable to use the tools i do 99% of the wesnoth work with would count as a change... D: 20180331 09:07:45<+discordbot> indeed, at least his work requires very little changes to platform dependent stuff 20180331 09:07:49<+discordbot> I think of all the people who've been devs since I joined, I only saw one of them switch platforms, and that seemed to be primarily because he took it as a personal challenge. 20180331 09:07:51<+discordbot> if any 20180331 09:08:24<+discordbot> well I'm a former windows user myself 20180331 09:08:35<+discordbot> and I did change too, for smiliar reason 20180331 09:08:57<+discordbot> also, if you like compile stuff from source for kicks gentoo is better choice than windows 😛 20180331 09:09:01<+discordbot> I had a multitude of reasons to switch and to this day I still regret it sometimes. 20180331 09:09:19<+discordbot> Only absolute nerds want to compile stuff they don't need to compile. 20180331 09:09:32<+discordbot> The average computer user is more pragmatic than you expect. 20180331 09:09:39<+discordbot> well 20180331 09:09:45<+discordbot> if they play games it's not pragmatic 20180331 09:09:53<+discordbot> It still is. 20180331 09:10:13<+discordbot> And that is the reason why hardware manufacturers (esp. smartphone and tablet vendors) can get away with placing so many restrictions on what you can do with their products. 20180331 09:10:37<+discordbot> If people cared, they'd not give them their money and keep that market afloat at the expense of their own freedom. 20180331 09:10:51<+discordbot> But the numbers clearly show that the average people doesn't care. 20180331 09:11:40<+discordbot> well they always need someone to follow, and I tried to be that person 20180331 09:11:49<+discordbot> the problem is that I'm not that charismatic 😛 20180331 09:11:51<+discordbot> This is also why software vendors can get away with all the crappy DRM practices they promote in the industry. 20180331 09:12:59<+discordbot> To clarify, I fully respect a software dev's choice to procrastinate or give up on supporting Linux. 20180331 09:13:22<+discordbot> Whether I'll give them my money or not is a more complicated question to answer, although in most cases the answer will be no. 20180331 09:15:03<+discordbot> When you take into account that I have a laptop (that I didn't buy because I can't afford buying one ) that runs Windows because Linux's ecosystem literally doesn't support all of its features, you can also see that I'm considerably pragmatic in that regard even if it's the cause for much of my grey hairs over the last few years. 20180331 09:16:03<+discordbot> Hello, I'm making my own campaign and want to translate it. I have a hard time finding how to create and then update .pot file. Could you help me? 20180331 09:16:15<+discordbot> Even my desktop has a Windows install for when I really need it (since for some reason VirtualBox can't handle anything newer than Windows XP properly no matter how much hardware you throw at it). 20180331 09:17:07<+discordbot> @dyedmagenta Have you seen this before? https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=46366 20180331 09:17:34<+discordbot> No, but I will read it 😃 20180331 09:18:50<+discordbot> thank you, this is all I need 😄 20180331 09:19:46<+discordbot> Okay, good luck! I haven't tried the tools mentioned in there myself yet. :p 20180331 09:23:25<+discordbot> Hello. Sorry if I am interrupting something, but I have a question. How is Li'sar pronounced? Is it pronounced Lih-sahr or Lee-sahr? 20180331 09:26:25< zookeeper> i think i've always mentally pronounced it as Li-sahr 20180331 09:29:46<+discordbot> Same as zookeeper here. 20180331 09:29:59<+discordbot> It comes from Lisa, for the record, the name of Dave's wife. 20180331 09:30:07<+discordbot> I think ' has some particular meaning 20180331 09:30:21<+discordbot> or is it added just to look exotic? 20180331 09:30:28<+discordbot> Latter. 20180331 09:30:29< zookeeper> yes, and the meaning is "this is a fantasy name" 20180331 09:30:30<+discordbot> exotocism like R'lyeh 20180331 09:30:38<+discordbot> I've pronounced it both ways mentally and they both seem fine, imo, though I was wondering how the devs intended. Like a have a char in a story I have planned whose first letters of their name is Ce, with me meaning to be pronounced Se, as that fits more, but some readers may pronounce it Ke 20180331 09:30:40<+discordbot> Like I said, it's just "Lisa" turned into a fantasy name. 20180331 09:30:55<+discordbot> Interesting. 20180331 09:31:20<+discordbot> Everything is interesting huh :p 20180331 09:31:57<+discordbot> the fun part is that, then HTTT effectively becomes a story of killing Dave's mother-in-law 20180331 09:32:58<+discordbot> I actually laughed pretty hard upon hearing this. 20180331 09:33:12<+discordbot> *reading 20180331 09:35:19<+discordbot> So is Delfador inspired from Dumbledore or something? 20180331 09:35:46<+discordbot> I don't know if anyone knows that for sure. He looks more Gandalf-like to me. 20180331 09:37:26<+discordbot> hmm or ' might even mean sound of arabic letter 'ayn that most people who aren't arab don't know how to pronounce 😛 20180331 09:37:49<+discordbot> I think he certainly does, but the first time I heard the name, I thought of Dumbledore. It seems almost like, tho it may not be, that the name is inspired from Dumbledore, and the char itself off Gandalf. 20180331 09:42:22<+discordbot> Delfador backwards is Rodafled, which is short for "Rode and fled", after how he escaped with the royal baby in the intro of HTTT 20180331 09:42:59<+discordbot> Wait what? 20180331 09:43:05<+discordbot> I just realized that. 20180331 09:43:35<+discordbot> As clever as that sounds, odds are pretty high it's just a coincidence. 20180331 09:45:13<+discordbot> Weird. 20180331 09:46:11<+discordbot> I always wondered why the main character has a real-world name though. 20180331 09:46:24<+discordbot> is like Dave's son? :p 20180331 09:47:23<+discordbot> I don't think so. 20180331 09:49:06<+discordbot> Well, it may have a sort of psychological effect on readers, as it more humanizes them and solidifies them to what the players are familiar with, in a sort of way, bringing the char 'closer'. But, I'm not sure. 20180331 09:50:32<+discordbot> Konrad is named after Konrad Adenauer. The way Konrad turned the rebellion against the evil Queen to success, is an allegory for how Konrad Adenauer grew a prosperous West Germany from the ruins of the Third Reich 20180331 09:50:34<+discordbot> I'd suspect the explanation is not that sophisticated 20180331 09:51:50<+discordbot> I suppose, but I study a lot of crap in my spare time and like to 'nerd out' even tho most of it is quite useless facts. 20180331 09:52:28<+discordbot> I know this trope 20180331 09:52:51<+discordbot> http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AerithAndBob 20180331 09:52:52<+discordbot> I like the Adenauer explanation, is it a theory or you have a source? 20180331 09:52:56<+discordbot> What trope? 20180331 09:53:06<+discordbot> Oh that okay. 20180331 09:54:39<+discordbot> I can't think of other examples beside Konrad though. And it's the main character of the first campaign ever made for BfW, so it looks like a deliberate choice. 20180331 09:54:40<+discordbot> Is this the guy? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konrad_Adenauer 20180331 09:56:44<+discordbot> Some fictional names seem too exotic IMO, and pronunciation can be hard to figure out (Gweddry, Oweac, etc) and the real world ones, like Konrad may stick out to players with this opinion. 20180331 09:57:12<+discordbot> @skeptical_troll You can't because the others were deliberately excised (against my protests though). 20180331 09:58:31<+discordbot> Lady Jessene (TRoW) was originally Lady Jessica. Father Morvin (NR) was originally Father Marcus. Eryssa (NR again) was originally Anita. 20180331 09:59:28<+discordbot> I like the older ones as they are simpler, but the newer ones fit the chars more, IMO, and spur a sense of newness. 20180331 09:59:29<+discordbot> All of them were changed long after the respective campaigns were added to mainline, as part of a series of changes prompted by an IRC conversation at some point during either 1.5.x or 1.7.x's development. 20180331 10:00:14<+discordbot> I don't really care at this point but I still feel like Lady Jessene's name change was a downgrade. 20180331 10:00:41<+discordbot> The rest I didn't care much in the first place because hey, it's Norther Rebirth, the campaign I love to hate. 20180331 10:01:02<+discordbot> wesnoth setting is not very coherent, at least culturally, and efforts to make it more so tend to change things for the worse 20180331 10:02:17<+discordbot> So, are you saying you don't like NR at all, or you just like to dump on it? 20180331 10:02:34<+discordbot> It has some redeeming points. 20180331 10:03:05<+discordbot> My main qualm with it is that it doesn't take itself seriously until it suddenly does for a single scene that sticks out like a sore thumb (you may not necessarily run into it since it's choice-dependent). 20180331 10:03:39<+discordbot> Secondly, the gameplay scale is just ludicrous to the point that it doesn't feel like it belongs in mainline. 20180331 10:03:49<+discordbot> Now that I think about it, even in Star Wars only the main character has a real-world name (Luke), if you consider Ben as just a nickname. Would need to do some checks to verify it though. 20180331 10:03:56<+discordbot> everybody hates NR, afaik 20180331 10:04:03<+discordbot> i haven't seen anyone advocate for it 20180331 10:04:27<+discordbot> NR can be a pain to play, but some players enjoy it 20180331 10:04:36<+discordbot> I like NR, I just feel like it can drag on at points. Other than that, I love the storyline. 20180331 10:04:55<+discordbot> I don't care much for gameplay myself since I'm more into the story aspect of Wesnoth campaigns. 20180331 10:05:17<+discordbot> NR is written in a way that it comes across somewhat like a poor attempt at a comedy. 20180331 10:05:36<+discordbot> Even in spite of the trememdous amount of effort a person make into making it adequate for mainline. 20180331 10:05:37<+discordbot> NR's main disadvantage is that it requires you to manage an order of magnitude more units than other campaigns 20180331 10:05:39<+discordbot> *made 20180331 10:05:39<+discordbot> I see sometimes it may feel like that. 20180331 10:05:53<+discordbot> But it's not funny comedy, it's just cringey. 20180331 10:06:01<+discordbot> which can result in boredom until you actually get to the enemy 20180331 10:06:05<+discordbot> Yeah. I know how that feels. 20180331 10:06:12<+discordbot> And then there's that scene where it all suddenly turns into tragedy for a single story screen. 20180331 10:06:18<+discordbot> Out of nowhere. 20180331 10:06:18<+discordbot> Eventually I'll finish revamping NR... eventually 20180331 10:06:26<+discordbot> It's just not very coherent tone-wise. 20180331 10:06:56<+discordbot> At least I'd like to believe my own campaigns have a better balance of comedy vs. drama. 20180331 10:07:19<+discordbot> I kind of enjoyed the underground scenarios of NR the first time I played them. much less those in the surface. I think the worst thing in the story is that there are a lot of flat characters. I tend to prefer just a few characters with complex personalities instead 20180331 10:07:47<+discordbot> Yeah no, don't get me started on the characters. 20180331 10:08:02<+discordbot> Neither the original author nor the guy who rewrote it all really understand how to make characters work. 20180331 10:08:23<+discordbot> Not beyond giving the game an excuse to show you their portraits with some dialogue lines. 20180331 10:08:36<+discordbot> Yeah, there are times comedy is needed and others when it is not. Like sometimes I'll be watching a movie, and it's a real critical and serious moment, then a guy makes a joke and I am like, "Really? Who approved this script?" XD 20180331 10:09:12<+discordbot> I've had that happen a lot not with the movies themselves but with the audience watching them. 20180331 10:09:44<+discordbot> It's usually groups of teens (almost always all men) who come to laugh at scenes that aren't funny at all. 20180331 10:10:00<+discordbot> And I'm like "could you kindly fuck off". 20180331 10:10:12<+discordbot> Haha, true, a joked told by a friend in the wrong moment can destroy immersion for the rest of the movie. 20180331 10:10:17<+discordbot> The best comedy in wesnoth I've seen were the Ooze campaign and Elvish Princess campaign, both by Spencelack, up on 1.12 UMC server 20180331 10:10:34<+discordbot> great campaigns overall, perhaps my favorites overall. Comedic but not zany 20180331 10:10:49<+discordbot> Yeah, those are pretty well-done. 20180331 10:11:20<+discordbot> I remember playing 'Talentless mage', it had some funny moments making fun of typical Wesnoth stereotypes 20180331 10:11:22<+discordbot> Funnily enough I'd have tried to emulate Ooze Mini-campaign in a discarded IftU script. 20180331 10:11:27<+discordbot> Yeah, I remember quite a few times when I was watching a movie with my brother when I was younger and he just laughs at a very serious moment, like the moment right before the freaking climax and I get torn out of the zone, and am like, "WHY!?" 20180331 10:11:42<+discordbot> But there were a multitude of reasons why I discarded that plan. 20180331 10:17:44<+discordbot> I think having the comedy concentrated around a few characters is usually the safest way to introduce it in an epic-like story. I think it worked well indeed with Mal Keshar in IftU and AtS, for example. But I'd like really much to see a Wesnoth campaign in the writing style and tone of Monkey Island, to make a comparison. Not that it would be easy. 20180331 10:19:20<+discordbot> Yeah, it gotta fit the chars. Like the real serious mentor-type char usually won't be the one acting on impulse or making dumb decisions, or even the one cracking jokes. 20180331 10:20:00<+discordbot> much of the humor of Monkey Island was about small interactions 20180331 10:20:07<+discordbot> which cannot exist in Wesnoth mechanically 20180331 10:21:09<+discordbot> I mean, a mentor can crack jokes, but it should do it consistently throughout the story, not switch erratically between being the savior of the world and the funny guy. 20180331 10:22:25<+discordbot> Yeah. 20180331 10:22:26<+discordbot> well, you still have lot of dialog in Wesnoth. Obviously it won't be exactly the same thing, I'm just thinking about the humor style and level. 20180331 10:24:36<+discordbot> Yeah. I understand. As a person who writes and studies stories for friends and myself in my spare time, the char's personality is one of the most powerful tools if you do it consistently. It can shape and guide the story, create conflict, crises, and are often the main course or cause for char arcs. 20180331 10:26:08<+discordbot> i didn't think NR had actual story 20180331 10:26:38<+discordbot> You can't just make the really serious char go jump in a volcano for no reason besides plot. It just doesn't fit. 20180331 10:28:37<+discordbot> and i dont remember any comedy there either besides camerin 20180331 10:28:38<+discordbot> xD 20180331 10:28:39<+discordbot> Unless for very good reasons which are central in the story line, like him/her losing memory of events, being driven mad by something etc.. 20180331 10:29:05<+discordbot> Yeah, that could actually be good reason. 20180331 10:29:11<+discordbot> Done right, that is. 20180331 10:29:22<+discordbot> the two immortals mages had some cheesy dialog when they died as well 20180331 10:29:59<+discordbot> ah, yes, kind of 20180331 10:30:48<+discordbot> but it was like, camerin was kind of corny and the mages were less funny than that 20180331 10:30:53<+discordbot> Also there was Tallin being funny at times, like when the Elvish sisters are godifying. 20180331 10:31:00<+discordbot> him. 20180331 10:31:06<+discordbot> something new but not that special 20180331 10:31:26<+discordbot> oh 20180331 10:31:27<+discordbot> maybe 20180331 10:32:32<+discordbot> sm was talking about some serious optional scene, maybe she meant some of the optional eryssa scenes i never went through 20180331 10:33:17<+discordbot> Can't remember that one 20180331 10:33:46<+discordbot> in my run eryssa was friendly to me 20180331 10:34:05<+discordbot> Don't remember. It may be the other route, as I always save my loyals but some users throw em away. 20180331 10:35:44<+discordbot> Ah right, if her sister dies beforehand then she's kind of pissed of on you for some reason I don't remember. 20180331 10:35:54<+discordbot> you Tallin, of course 20180331 10:36:47<+discordbot> yes 20180331 10:37:20<+discordbot> Yea, I'd be pretty angry if you let my sister die as well when I was imprisoned and could do nothing about it. 20180331 10:38:42<+discordbot> yeah 20180331 10:40:02<+discordbot> especially if she was working for you and healing your units for free. 20180331 10:40:15<+discordbot> Yeah XD 20180331 10:40:31<+discordbot> you would have to be a terrible person to let her die xD 20180331 10:43:26<+discordbot> Yeah. 20180331 10:46:15<+discordbot> Wesnoth is cool, tho even tho it's not meant to be realistic, some scenarios or chars can be quite weird when you apply them to real life. L 20180331 10:46:43<+discordbot> Tho I do love Wesnoth, don't get me wrong. 20180331 10:46:55-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has joined #wesnoth 20180331 10:47:19<+discordbot> yes 20180331 10:48:03<+discordbot> also especially that it is meant to be placed in pseudo medieval setting xD 20180331 10:48:28<+discordbot> yeah XD 20180331 10:50:45<+discordbot> like from DiD, it kinda seems like "I just got banned from my village, and I hate orcs, so I will go confront several moderately large armies with the few soldiers I have to get revenge" XD I do love the campaign tho 20180331 10:53:10<+discordbot> he did it for the corpses, all the necromances do it for the corpses xD 20180331 10:53:21-!- louis94 [~~louis94@149.36-245-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #wesnoth 20180331 10:53:23<+discordbot> XD 20180331 11:09:16<+discordbot> xD 20180331 11:34:28-!- tomlukeywood [~tom@host-92-19-232-58.static.as13285.net] has quit [Quit: tomlukeywood] 20180331 11:42:22-!- louis94 [~~louis94@149.36-245-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20180331 11:53:45-!- lipkab [~lipk@host-91-147-210-58.biatv.hu] has joined #wesnoth 20180331 12:16:38-!- octalot [~steve@178.165.128.114.wireless.dyn.drei.com] has joined #wesnoth 20180331 12:26:51-!- lipkab [~lipk@host-91-147-210-58.biatv.hu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180331 12:32:57-!- Tecraus [~tbfw@2a02:2149:8474:c900:c05e:2120:cb96:c7c0] has joined #wesnoth 20180331 12:34:20< Tecraus> mattsc 20180331 12:51:54-!- ToBeCloud [uid51591@wikimedia/ToBeFree] has joined #wesnoth 20180331 13:21:38-!- louis94 [~~louis94@149.36-245-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #wesnoth 20180331 13:56:23-!- arathill [~arathill@80.51.7.3] has joined #wesnoth 20180331 13:57:47-!- arathill [~arathill@80.51.7.3] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20180331 13:58:25-!- lipkab [~lipk@host-91-147-210-58.biatv.hu] has joined #wesnoth 20180331 14:03:27-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20180331 14:11:20-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has joined #wesnoth 20180331 14:15:32-!- celmin|sleep is now known as celticminstrel 20180331 14:15:39< mattsc> Tecraus: hi 20180331 14:16:56< Tecraus> Hi. Haven't seen you for lots of days and I was wondering if you ever got my error report. 20180331 14:17:49< mattsc> Yeah, I’ve been traveling and I am not around much lately anyway. But I can be summoned (sometimes). ;) 20180331 14:17:59< mattsc> I did, but I could not reproduce it. 20180331 14:18:53< mattsc> I thought it might have something to do with hidden units, since you had mentioned that, but I tried a few setups and never got that error. 20180331 14:21:20< Tecraus> As far as I remember I didn't have any Woses at that point (but I'm not sure either). The only weird move I made was that I recruited too many Elvish Scouts (for such small map). 20180331 14:21:42< mattsc> That shouldn’t matter. 20180331 14:22:27< Tecraus> Which they are fast units and I read somewhere (probably at the forum) that Fred is acting weird against fast units. 20180331 14:23:15< mattsc> My guess is that you somehow created a “unusual” situation that caused a rare error in the code. I don’t mean unusual in the sense of you doing something strange, but that caused some “code situation” (don’t know how to say it better) that causes an error. 20180331 14:23:35< mattsc> Ugh, that was a bad sentence. :) 20180331 14:24:11< Tecraus> I usually play unusually, that's true :-P 20180331 14:24:29< mattsc> Maybe, but that’s not at all what I mean here. 20180331 14:25:05< mattsc> The AI code does all kinds of things internally, moving units around, replacing them, changing their stats, to test out what-if scenarios. 20180331 14:25:33< mattsc> It’s essential that afterward all is restored to the previous state, and in the vast majority of cases that is true. 20180331 14:26:00< mattsc> But every once in a while there’s still a bug and something goes wrong. 20180331 14:27:40< Tecraus> What's the point of an error report if it can't show what went wrong?? 20180331 14:31:10< mattsc> The error report tells me what is happening. It does not tell me why it is happening. 20180331 14:34:02< Tecraus> Will it help if I still have the replay and send it to you somehow? 20180331 14:35:24-!- Haudegen [~quassel@212095005182.public.telering.at] has joined #wesnoth 20180331 14:35:25< mattsc> Yes, absolutely. 20180331 14:37:45< mattsc> Sometimes it’s possible to figure out why something is happening just from knwoing where in the code it happens. 20180331 14:38:08< Tecraus> I'm finishing a fast game I play right now and I'll check if I have it. 20180331 14:38:34< mattsc> But the more complex issues usually require a way to reproduce the problem. And a save from just before it happened (which can be extracted from the replay) is usually the best way to do that. 20180331 14:40:33< mattsc> No worries. I won’t have time for working on Fred for quite some time anyway. 20180331 14:43:06< mattsc> The corrolary though is that you can probably try another game and that it’s unlikely that the error will appear again. 20180331 14:43:56< mattsc> … with all the disclaimers of the state that Fred is currently in. ;) 20180331 14:51:30< Tecraus> I have the replay. How can I send it? 20180331 14:55:20< mattsc> Forum PM would be easiest. 20180331 14:57:10< Tecraus> I'm not a forum member. And I don't have a facebook or a discord account currently. Any file-hosting site maybe? 20180331 14:58:04< mattsc> Sure, whatever you prefer. Just send me the link (here or privately, since it’s not exactly confidential information) 20180331 14:59:09< Tecraus> irc can share files too, but that doesn't always work. let me try... 20180331 15:01:05-!- ToBeCloud [uid51591@wikimedia/ToBeFree] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 20180331 15:01:32< mattsc> It got the notification, but it’s not downloading … 20180331 15:02:09< Tecraus> I'll try to send it as plain text... 20180331 15:05:18< Tecraus> If that doesn't work either, please suggest a file hosting site which doesn't require account. 20180331 15:07:45< mattsc> Doesn’t work either. 20180331 15:08:21< mattsc> You can share plain text on pastebin.com without an account, but I don’t know if there’s a size limit. 20180331 15:08:28< mattsc> Other than that, I don’t know. 20180331 15:10:09< Tecraus> Try this link ---> https://nofile.io/f/2QJCJ2SmeNC/Tecraus_vs_Fred_replay.gz 20180331 15:11:37< mattsc> That appears to have worked. 20180331 15:13:06< Tecraus> I guess that's the best I can do to help Fred for now. Good luck finding the bug. 20180331 15:14:12-!- Tecraus [~tbfw@2a02:2149:8474:c900:c05e:2120:cb96:c7c0] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20180331 15:55:39-!- claymore [~claymore@unaffiliated/claymore] has joined #wesnoth 20180331 17:02:45-!- Haudegen [~quassel@212095005182.public.telering.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20180331 17:04:12-!- lipkab [~lipk@host-91-147-210-58.biatv.hu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180331 17:04:31-!- lipkab [~lipk@host-91-147-210-58.biatv.hu] has joined #wesnoth 20180331 17:07:58-!- lipkab [~lipk@host-91-147-210-58.biatv.hu] has quit [Client Quit] 20180331 17:13:25-!- Bonobo [~Bonobo@203.220.138.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20180331 17:14:04-!- Bonobo [~Bonobo@203.220.138.198] has joined #wesnoth 20180331 17:27:27-!- Bonobo [~Bonobo@203.220.138.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20180331 17:51:59-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180331 17:52:07-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20180331 18:07:00-!- louis94 [~~louis94@149.36-245-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20180331 18:09:56<+discordbot> @loonycyborg I can think of better reasons to hate PUBG than lack of Linux support, not the least of which is very poor support of the actual "supported" platform 20180331 18:10:45<+discordbot> I cannot because I didn't play it 😛 20180331 19:27:09< aeth> PUBG *does* run on Linux. Run the mobile version in an Android emulator! 20180331 19:57:57<+discordbot> I think it has problems with wine due to anticheat system 20180331 19:58:12<+discordbot> maybe emulator will trip this up too 20180331 20:00:43<+discordbot> I'd expect that the primary issue would be Wine's D3D 11 support being incomplete. 20180331 20:00:50<+discordbot> I'd have expected rather 20180331 20:01:23<+discordbot> Or D3D 12. It's all numbers to me. 20180331 20:04:22<+discordbot> wine already has that support, and pubg uses a common engine 20180331 20:06:51<+discordbot> "In a move that's not exactly surprising, Valve has quietly removed the Steam Machine section from Steam." Yep, not surprising at all. 20180331 20:07:28-!- louis94 [~~louis94@149.36-245-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #wesnoth 20180331 20:22:15-!- claymore [~claymore@unaffiliated/claymore] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20180331 20:26:23-!- louis94 [~~louis94@149.36-245-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 20180331 20:26:47<+discordbot> Good morning everyone. It's April Fools' Day today. 😈 20180331 20:30:41<+discordbot> It's uh, not April Fools yet 20180331 20:30:58<+discordbot> It's 3:30 on Caturday 20180331 20:31:07<+discordbot> It depends on the timezone. 20180331 20:32:05<+discordbot> It's 2:31pm here for me in Utah, so for someone 10hrs ahead in the UTC +3 timezone or further, it would be April Fools. 20180331 20:36:12<+discordbot> Not quite. I'm in UTC+2+DST (effetively UTC+3), and it's 23:35 here. 20180331 20:36:56<+discordbot> Oh, my bad. 20180331 20:37:22<+discordbot> Thanks for correcting me. 20180331 21:00:45-!- Ipsilon [~Ipsilon@165.227.96.150] has quit [Quit: Goodbye.] 20180331 21:05:39-!- Ipsilon [~Ipsilon@165.227.96.150] has joined #wesnoth 20180331 21:07:30-!- Ipsilon [~Ipsilon@165.227.96.150] has quit [Client Quit] 20180331 21:10:30-!- Ipsilon [~Ipsilon@165.227.96.150] has joined #wesnoth 20180331 21:25:39-!- Haudegen [~quassel@cm56-229-75.liwest.at] has joined #wesnoth 20180331 21:32:40<+discordbot> Thing is, since I live in UTC -7, my area is one of the last to get to the start of the holiday, so It'll be a while for me. 20180331 21:33:19-!- Ipsilon [~Ipsilon@165.227.96.150] has quit [Quit: Goodbye.] 20180331 21:34:41-!- Ipsilon [~Ipsilon@165.227.96.150] has joined #wesnoth 20180331 21:38:20<+discordbot> Same here lol 20180331 21:41:58-!- Ipsilon [~Ipsilon@165.227.96.150] has quit [Quit: Goodbye.] 20180331 21:42:49-!- Ipsilon [~Ipsilon@165.227.96.150] has joined #wesnoth 20180331 21:58:55-!- Ipsilon [~Ipsilon@165.227.96.150] has quit [Quit: Goodbye.] 20180331 21:59:47-!- Ipsilon [~Ipsilon@165.227.96.150] has joined #wesnoth 20180331 22:24:29-!- grzywacz [~karol@89-70-226-147.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #wesnoth 20180331 22:34:40-!- Ipsilon [~Ipsilon@165.227.96.150] has quit [Quit: Goodbye.] 20180331 22:36:01-!- Ipsilon [~Ipsilon@165.227.96.150] has joined #wesnoth 20180331 22:59:57-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180331 23:00:07-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20180331 23:33:28-!- grzywacz [~karol@89-70-226-147.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20180331 23:36:09-!- Tecraus [~tbfw@2a02:2149:8474:c900:c05e:2120:cb96:c7c0] has joined #wesnoth 20180331 23:37:33-!- octalot [~steve@178.165.128.114.wireless.dyn.drei.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 20180331 23:38:17< Tecraus> When a unit upgrade during defense, it doesn't let me choose which advancement I prefer. Is this a bug? 20180331 23:39:21< zookeeper> if by "during defense" you actually mean "during another player's turn in networked multiplayer", then no, it's not a bug but works as intended. 20180331 23:40:18< Tecraus> It wasn't always like this, was it? 20180331 23:41:25< zookeeper> always was 20180331 23:42:48< Tecraus> Is this true only for mp? I don't remember this was happening during Heir of Throne. 20180331 23:47:21< zookeeper> correct. point is that when it's your turn, the game shouldn't stop and wait input from a different player whose turn it is not. 20180331 23:48:21< Tecraus> why not? 20180331 23:48:32-!- octalot [~steve@178.165.128.114.wireless.dyn.drei.com] has joined #wesnoth 20180331 23:49:29< Ravana_> there are modifications to choose advancements before 20180331 23:50:05< zookeeper> well you couldn't even go to the fridge when it's not your turn, because some poor sod might level up one of your units and get stuck until you maybe get back 5 minutes later 20180331 23:53:00< Tecraus> Who goes to the fridge during a game? Letting choose the advancement of your own unit is not slowing the game. Stupid multiple disconnections do! 20180331 23:54:07< zookeeper> during wesnoth matches that typically take a long time during which you spend at least half the time actively doing nothing? quite a lot of people, i'd imagine :p 20180331 23:55:26< zookeeper> anyway, that's the principle: that the player whose turn it is should be the only one in charge of when their turn ends. 20180331 23:56:23< Tecraus> Watching your rival's moves and actively planning your next moves according is nothing?! 20180331 23:56:37<+discordbot> unless you set a timer 😛 --- Log closed Sun Apr 01 00:00:24 2018