--- Log opened Sun Apr 15 00:00:43 2018 20180415 00:01:55< celticminstrel> It does! Yay! 20180415 00:02:52< zookeeper> i don't think there was anything else i was going to do for 1.13.14... 20180415 00:03:24< celticminstrel> There's something else I'm going to do if the Galician translator responds in time, though. 20180415 00:08:55< octalot> trivial, but is there a missing do_not_list=yes in sevu's "utbs: replace true by yes"? It's currently the tip commit of the 1.14 branch 20180415 00:09:13< celticminstrel> Yeah that should probably be put back I guess. 20180415 00:09:49< mattsc> The wiki says that the numeric form of [side]color= is deprecated. 20180415 00:09:55< mattsc> Is it deprecated or removed? 20180415 00:10:09<+discordbot> Deprecated. 20180415 00:10:21< mattsc> Which means it should still be working, right? 20180415 00:10:35<+discordbot> Yes. This has been the case since 2007 approximately anyway. 20180415 00:10:46< mattsc> It isn’t for me in 1.13.13. 20180415 00:11:06< celticminstrel> IIRC it works by defining the numbers from 1-9 as [color_range] tags in the game config? 20180415 00:11:20< celticminstrel> It shouldn't work for higher numbers AFAIK. 20180415 00:11:39<+discordbot> The answer might be a bit more complicated. 20180415 00:12:04< mattsc> Oh, wait, numeric from means something like #A00000 ? 20180415 00:12:15<+discordbot> No. 20180415 00:12:44<+discordbot> Numeric means 1-9, which are predefined aliases for red, blue, green, purple, and so on (the default colours for the 9 teams). 20180415 00:12:46-!- grzywacz [~karol@wesnoth/developer/grzywacz] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 20180415 00:12:55< mattsc> Okay, good, that’s how I understood it. 20180415 00:13:05< mattsc> Well, I have that form in a scenario and all sides are red. 20180415 00:13:27<+discordbot> Can you paste the exact code? 20180415 00:14:19< mattsc> https://github.com/mattsc/Grnk-git/blob/master/Grnk/part1/scenarios/11_Escape.cfg#L78 20180415 00:15:22<+discordbot> That's interesting. It works for me. 20180415 00:16:16<+discordbot> Have you tried using color range names instead? There's a specific reason why the numbers are not a great choice. 20180415 00:16:30<+discordbot> There are two path functions that can be used to apply team colour to images: ~RC(palette>color_range) and ~TC(side_number,palette). 20180415 00:17:04<+discordbot> The former uses the color range definitions and it's scenario-agnostic, meaning it doesn't require the game to check what color range is assigned to which side. The latter is not. 20180415 00:18:33< mattsc> Haven’t yet, no. 20180415 00:18:44< mattsc> I’ll try a few things and report back. 20180415 00:18:50<+discordbot> I believe the game internally uses ~RC(unit_team_rgb>unit_side_color). 20180415 00:19:22<+discordbot> And based on my observations assigning side 1 the color 2 and side 2 the color purple in HttT scenario 1, this seems to be the case. 20180415 00:22:22< mattsc> I just put blue in for side 4. Then sides 4, 6 and 8 become blue, and all sides sides (up to 10) remain red. Kind of funny. :O 20180415 00:22:35< irker891> wesnoth: ln-zookeeper wesnoth:1.14 0b1aaecb6ad8 / data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/units/quenoth/Scout.cfg: UtBS: Removed obsolete slows note from Quenoth Scout https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/0b1aaecb6ad897e04ad2c9516a88724f9380489f 20180415 00:22:38< mattsc> *all other sides 20180415 00:23:55< mattsc> Looks like sides with an even numerical color are now blue, those with an odd color number ar red. 20180415 00:24:00< mattsc> Or something. 20180415 00:24:25< mattsc> I’ll try to figure out what is going on ... 20180415 00:33:35-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20180415 00:43:43< irker891> wesnoth: loonycyborg wesnoth:master f5ab654760af / src/server/server.cpp: wesnothd: made server fill in sender when forwarding whispers https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/f5ab654760af1e1aba839979018e10ffd9d6ddbd 20180415 00:57:40<+discordbot> Oh no. 20180415 00:57:48<+discordbot> Did I break TC? 20180415 00:57:53< irker891> wesnoth/wesnoth:1.14 Severin Glöckner 10c93d24fc utbs: replace true by yes AppVeyor: 2/4 builds failed 20180415 00:57:54< irker891> Details vs2017/Release: https://ci.appveyor.com/project/wesnoth/wesnoth-605wt/build/Wesnoth-VS2017-1.14-2392 20180415 00:57:55< irker891> Details vs2015/Release: https://ci.appveyor.com/project/wesnoth/wesnoth-7lnpw/build/Wesnoth-VS2015-1.14-2684 20180415 00:59:50<+discordbot> @mattsc even if that did work, please don’t use it. 20180415 01:00:21<+discordbot> @sevu Actually, now that I actually see the diff, what's the reasoning behind commit 10c93d24fc3b2f1cd8ab3a396f57ed033d49a1c7 in 1.14? 20180415 01:01:07<+discordbot> Code cleanups are supposed to go into master, not 1.14. 20180415 01:01:16-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-54-204-191-166.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180415 01:01:17< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#17629 (master - f5ab654 : loonycyborg): The build was broken. 20180415 01:01:17< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/366652225 20180415 01:01:17-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-54-204-191-166.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has left #wesnoth-dev [] 20180415 01:02:01<+discordbot> That ship sailed with the release of RC 1. 20180415 01:03:44<+discordbot> Yes, it's a trivial change and no, it doesn't hurt anything (although the jury's still out with regards to wmlunits) but it's against the spirit of the RC series to do stuff like this without the intent of fixing bugs. 20180415 01:04:41< irker891> wesnoth/wesnoth:master Celtic Minstrel 4b33c94c0e Fix AI ignoring teleport locations when AppVeyor: vs2017/Release Failed 20180415 01:04:42< irker891> Details: https://ci.appveyor.com/project/wesnoth/wesnoth-605wt/build/Wesnoth-VS2017-master-2396 20180415 01:06:01<+discordbot> Also, for reference, any value that isn't "no" or "false" works for do_not_list and hide_help in wmlunits (yes, any value). 20180415 01:08:45< irker891> wesnoth: Celtic Minstrel wesnoth:intl_fixes c7d2fb4c7369 / / (6 files in 6 dirs): Fix #2894 https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/c7d2fb4c7369d54043c74da4521473fb62084a35 20180415 01:09:22< irker891> wesnoth: Celtic Minstrel wesnoth:master 0f267d0ede3e / / (6 files in 6 dirs): Fix #2894 https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/0f267d0ede3e8479e1e68a171e74b0cc420da51d 20180415 01:12:33< octalot> celticminstrel: for consistency, maybe change the capitalisation of "none" too? Also the some of the new translatable strings use an underscore, some use a space. 20180415 01:13:27< celticminstrel> I really don't care about this consistency TBH. I assumed there was some reason behind the case inconsistency, and the space vs underscore thing really doesn't matter in the slightest as long as there's agreement on a per-string basis. 20180415 01:13:58< celticminstrel> Like if someone used "addon_dependencies^None" in one place but "addon dependencies^None" in another (which almost happened in that commit actually). 20180415 01:14:07< octalot> ok 20180415 01:14:53< octalot> thanks for fixing stuff, and night 20180415 01:15:39-!- octalot [~steve@91.141.2.173.wireless.dyn.drei.com] has quit [] 20180415 01:19:10<+discordbot> I recall I was going to remove the numerical color ranges.. 20180415 01:19:14<+discordbot> But I didn’t 20180415 01:19:19<+discordbot> There was some reason... 20180415 01:19:24<+discordbot> Now I can’t remember it 20180415 01:20:02<+discordbot> Because they are used by a lot of existing code. 20180415 01:20:53<+discordbot> You could deprecate them in 1.15.0 and remove them in 1.17.0 if you really feel it's worth your time. 20180415 01:20:59< celticminstrel> They can probably be removed in 1.17, provided we... thanks shadowm 20180415 01:21:40< celticminstrel> Though what I was going to say was more explicit... provided we add a deprecated message using the new deprecation function. 20180415 02:11:05< irker891> wesnoth/wesnoth:master Severin Glöckner 5e1f6af8dd utbs: replace true by yes AppVeyor: 2/4 builds failed 20180415 02:11:06< irker891> Details vs2017/Release: https://ci.appveyor.com/project/wesnoth/wesnoth-605wt/build/Wesnoth-VS2017-master-2393 20180415 02:11:07< irker891> Details vs2015/Release: https://ci.appveyor.com/project/wesnoth/wesnoth-7lnpw/build/Wesnoth-VS2015-master-2685 20180415 02:16:35-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-54-166-67-148.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180415 02:16:36< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#17632 (master - 0f267d0 : Celtic Minstrel): The build is still failing. 20180415 02:16:36< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/366655835 20180415 02:16:36-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-54-166-67-148.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has left #wesnoth-dev [] 20180415 02:22:41< irker891> wesnoth/wesnoth:1.14 ln-zookeeper 0b1aaecb6a UtBS: Removed obsolete slows note from Q AppVeyor: vs2015/Release Failed 20180415 02:22:42< irker891> Details: https://ci.appveyor.com/project/wesnoth/wesnoth-7lnpw/build/Wesnoth-VS2015-1.14-2689 20180415 02:49:24< irker891> wesnoth: ln-zookeeper wesnoth:master cc4171e2077f / data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/units/quenoth/Scout.cfg: UtBS: Removed obsolete slows note from Quenoth Scout https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/cc4171e2077fcb086316bceb6a9bd0749f6f735b 20180415 02:49:26<+discordbot> @zookeeper please remember to forward-port... 20180415 02:49:35<+discordbot> why do I keep having to remind everyone 20180415 03:05:33-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180415 03:05:39-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180415 03:26:13< irker891> wesnoth/wesnoth:1.14 Severin Glöckner 4a837b61c4 finish renaming of the Horseman to Pathf AppVeyor: 2/4 builds failed 20180415 03:26:14< irker891> Details vs2015/Release: https://ci.appveyor.com/project/wesnoth/wesnoth-7lnpw/build/Wesnoth-VS2015-1.14-2686 20180415 03:26:15< irker891> Details vs2017/Release: https://ci.appveyor.com/project/wesnoth/wesnoth-605wt/build/Wesnoth-VS2017-1.14-2394 20180415 03:28:12< celticminstrel> Is it bad that I find it vaguely amusing that Vultraz keeps having to remind people do do forward/back-ports and changelogs... >_> 20180415 03:34:38<+discordbot> 50/50 I reckon. 20180415 03:38:36< irker891> wesnoth/wesnoth:1.14 Celtic Minstrel 14d6fc8ebb Fix #2894 AppVeyor: vs2015/Release Failed 20180415 03:38:37< irker891> Details: https://ci.appveyor.com/project/wesnoth/wesnoth-7lnpw/build/Wesnoth-VS2015-1.14-2691 20180415 03:39:05<+discordbot> Why do you find this amusing 20180415 03:39:20<+discordbot> It is not amusing 20180415 03:39:33< celticminstrel> Because previously everyone had to remind you to add changelogs. 20180415 03:47:13<+discordbot> celticminstrel, about this deprecation macro which is used for the khalifate units, I'm not sure if it is useful, in this case it is a campaign, and it will happen over time that is will not be used anymore. 20180415 03:47:43< celticminstrel> I'm not sure either, but the unit type should at least not be removed, I think. 20180415 03:47:59< celticminstrel> It should be removed in master though, certainly. 20180415 03:49:09<+discordbot> I updated the PR with the changes, and I didn't see previously that this base_unit part keeps compatibility for the image renaming too 20180415 03:50:33<+discordbot> other thing, about this deprecation macro and the khalifate - I see often advances_to=null in this file. I think they should advance to the other deprecated khalifate versions 20180415 03:50:51< celticminstrel> That would certainly make sense, yeah. 20180415 03:51:27<+discordbot> So I change that 20180415 03:51:39< celticminstrel> I'd also be okay with them advancing to the non-deprecated versions though. 20180415 03:51:52< celticminstrel> But that would likely be a bit surprising for the player. 20180415 03:52:40<+discordbot> I thought about it too. The player maybe wouldn't even notice, but if someone relies on a race=khalifate filter it doesn't match anymore 20180415 03:53:06< celticminstrel> Ah, good point. 20180415 03:53:48<+discordbot> Hi, welcome back. 20180415 03:53:49<+discordbot> On the other hand, by advancing to Dune Variants, and if the Lvl3 khalifate advance to the lvl3 dunefolk, old saves could at some point be cleared of the old ones by playing 20180415 03:54:31<+discordbot> Hi, thanks. As for your remark about the refactoring, right, didn't think about that 20180415 03:55:33<+discordbot> Does anyone present here know why RC 3's release process hasn't even begun yet btw? 20180415 03:56:40<+discordbot> I read a few days ago that it should be delayed by three days because Lord Bob needs time and there was some talk about bugs - but I also read later it should have been today 20180415 03:58:42<+discordbot> Right, he told me about 1.14.0 being delayed but not RC 3. 20180415 03:59:15<+discordbot> And the channel desc on both sides still says today a few hours ago, hence my confusion. 20180415 04:00:05< celticminstrel> Huh? I thought RC3 was going to go forward today since Jyrki fixed the minimap buttons? 20180415 04:00:21<+discordbot> .....FUCK. 20180415 04:00:28-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180415 04:00:31< celticminstrel> Gyack! 20180415 04:00:32<+discordbot> Hm, hi. 20180415 04:00:42< celticminstrel> What's up Vultraz? o.O 20180415 04:01:00<+discordbot> I went to lunch and forgot the release 20180415 04:01:21<+discordbot> Is loonycyborg still asleep? Is it my turn to do the pot-update? 20180415 04:01:46<+discordbot> someone has to 20180415 04:01:59<+discordbot> @sevu what are you doing? 20180415 04:02:06<+discordbot> I'll start now then. 20180415 04:02:17< celticminstrel> Oh right, did the Galician translator respond... 20180415 04:02:43< celticminstrel> He did not, huh. 20180415 04:03:01<+discordbot> (We are in a hard string freeze so it's just to get references up to date, manuals and manpages rebuilt, and verify that no-one thawed any strings.) 20180415 04:03:33< celticminstrel> Ah, that's actually a good reason to do it, huh. 20180415 04:04:36<+discordbot> I updated the PR, not entirely sure about adding the deprecation macro there or not, and right now I prepare a commit to change the advanes_to lines for the deprecated khalifate units (see above) 20180415 04:05:03<+discordbot> @shadowm loony's last commit is not on 1.14. Do backport? 20180415 04:05:43<+discordbot> I'll do a quick test before backporting. 20180415 04:05:53-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20180415 04:06:52<+discordbot> @sevu 2895 status? 20180415 04:07:30<+discordbot> (honestly, I'd say just throw out the type alias) 20180415 04:07:44<+discordbot> unless zookeeper added the hting.. 20180415 04:08:04<+discordbot> diff #. [unit]: type=Shadow #: data/campaigns/Secrets_of_the_Ancients/scenarios/08_Carcyn.cfg:92 -msgid "Vash Gorn" +msgid "Vash-Gorn" 20180415 04:08:25< celticminstrel> Preserving old saves on the new units is important IMO. 20180415 04:08:26<+discordbot> didn't I pofix that? 20180415 04:08:39<+discordbot> I was wrong with the khalifate stuff, all is fine there. The ones with advances_to=null are all on the top of the file, they all have the right 20180415 04:08:50<+discordbot> @Vultraz Explain pofix to me. 20180415 04:08:56< celticminstrel> @Vultraz, IIRC I deleted that pofix since it looked like there was no actual changed string, only a removed one? 20180415 04:09:04<+discordbot> ah ,yes 20180415 04:09:23<+discordbot> That's a different string celmin. 20180415 04:09:30<+discordbot> https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/4331c7f4e90dc62a6ea0551abbe971261e7526e7 20180415 04:09:43<+discordbot> Oh wait,. 20180415 04:09:51<+discordbot> I think 2895 is fine now 20180415 04:09:59< celticminstrel> Yeah in that commit. 20180415 04:10:14<+discordbot> Okay, time for you to decide what's going to happen here. 20180415 04:10:40<+discordbot> @sevu zookeeper never re-added the stuff regarding saves compatibility with the old loading code, so you could just drop the alias since (according to him) saves are already broken 20180415 04:10:56<+discordbot> @shadowm can it not be po-fixed? 20180415 04:11:30<+discordbot> I'm not a fan of pofixing punctuation changes but it can be done. 20180415 04:11:42<+discordbot> There's a punctual (excuse the pun) reason for that. 20180415 04:11:58< celticminstrel> I think this is not pofixable actually. 20180415 04:12:09<+discordbot> I know of at least one supported language where a dot is not necessarily written the same way as it is in the Latin 1 script. 20180415 04:12:19<+discordbot> I seem to recall the same applies to hyphens. 20180415 04:12:29< celticminstrel> Not quite sure, but when I did try to run pofix with Vultraz's additions, pofix complained at me. 20180415 04:13:11<+discordbot> diff #: data/campaigns/Secrets_of_the_Ancients/scenarios/02_Dark_Business.cfg:279 -msgid "Gwillyn" +msgid "Gwyllin" 20180415 04:13:19<+discordbot> This is a more interesting case. 20180415 04:13:21< celticminstrel> And the campaign's code seems to have only one instance of the plain string _"Vash-Gorn" which indicates it couldn't've been just a removal like I thought. 20180415 04:13:58< celticminstrel> IIRC pofix complained about something like "strings weren't changed" or some such. 20180415 04:14:35< celticminstrel> Ah right, it complained that the new string and old string were both present. 20180415 04:14:56< celticminstrel> Which is entirely true and the whole point of the change, to make it consistent, but it doesn't seem like pofix is equipped to handle this situation. 20180415 04:15:57< irker891> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:1.14 e863f7937cc7 / changelog.md: Better changelog entry for the MP password fix https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/e863f7937cc7405b3a62ef944816cfb0b8489c50 20180415 04:15:59<+discordbot> That's always been a big no-no with pofix. 20180415 04:16:31< irker891> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master 03d80a0b2b46 / changelog.md: Better changelog entry for the MP password fix https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/03d80a0b2b46470e19056fc5f818cf1cfe15bdf4 20180415 04:16:32< celticminstrel> Maybe it would work if you used ('"Vash Gorn"', '"Vash-Gorn"')? I dunno if pofix automatically strips the literal quotes from the po-file before matching. 20180415 04:16:36<+discordbot> However, the translation catalogue's status doesn't seem to support this for Vash Gorn. 20180415 04:17:08< celticminstrel> IMO it's not the end of the world if Vash-Gorn is reverted. 20180415 04:17:20< celticminstrel> Not sure what I feel about the prospect of Gwyllin being reverted though. 20180415 04:17:53<+discordbot> That's a fun one because it may require different transliterations depending on whether you spell it with a 'y' or 'i' if both are assumed to produce different sounds in Wesnothian. 20180415 04:18:37<+discordbot> Japanese ironically doesn't transliterate it. Galician does. 20180415 04:23:38<+discordbot> So yeah, those appear to be the only two string changes. 20180415 04:24:58<+discordbot> ehh 20180415 04:25:02<+discordbot> just leave them in 20180415 04:25:16<+discordbot> translators have already translated them 20180415 04:25:24<+discordbot> since the strings appear elsewhere 20180415 04:25:26<+discordbot> in other strings 20180415 04:25:32<+discordbot> Not really. 20180415 04:25:42< celticminstrel> That's not exactly an accurate statement. 20180415 04:26:05< celticminstrel> They'll still need to transfer that spelling over to the changed string or some such. 20180415 04:26:18< celticminstrel> So it's not like there's no work required on their part. 20180415 04:26:34<+discordbot> https://gist.github.com/shikadiqueen/7f437a49e98800853385ce3f4451d7d5 20180415 04:27:03<+discordbot> That's the template catalogue's diff. As you can see, there's no prior version of the strings (otherwise you'd see two removals elsewhere in the file), they are new. 20180415 04:28:06<+discordbot> I mean these names are spoken as part of dialog 20180415 04:28:11<+discordbot> not standalone strings 20180415 04:28:26<+discordbot> but the component, the fixed string, has been used 20180415 04:28:49<+discordbot> Vultraz, a string freeze is a string freeze. 20180415 04:29:43<+discordbot> then what do we do 20180415 04:29:45<+discordbot> revert? 20180415 04:33:39<+discordbot> That's what I'm doing. 20180415 04:33:44<+discordbot> mk 20180415 04:33:53<+discordbot> but open a bug to remind us to un-revert 20180415 04:34:25< celticminstrel> Oh, you mean for 1.14.1, right? 20180415 04:34:35<+discordbot> yes 20180415 04:34:41<+discordbot> 1.14.1 will most likely be mid-may 20180415 04:35:16<+discordbot> In case I forget to remind you after 1.14.0, make sure to give translators 1 week after a string freeze in preparation for each new stable release. 20180415 04:35:46<+discordbot> There is one case where I made an exception to this rule because coincidentally there weren't any string changes and the bug that needed to be shipped was of immediate urgency. 20180415 04:35:50<+discordbot> *bug fix 20180415 04:36:21<+discordbot> Are you saying each stable release must be preceded by a 1 week string freeze? 20180415 04:36:25<+discordbot> Yes. 20180415 04:36:31<+discordbot> (I kind of mentioned this to you before, really.) 20180415 04:36:35<+discordbot> ok 20180415 04:37:05<+discordbot> we already have these string changes queued up 20180415 04:37:17<+discordbot> so we can commit them en masse after 1.14.0 tags. 20180415 04:38:09< celticminstrel> I have a branch for all of mine, yes. 20180415 04:38:16<+discordbot> For this stable series we should aim for frequent, yet small, releases 20180415 04:38:47< irker891> wesnoth: Iris Morelle wesnoth:1.14 f843a0eebe56 / / (3 files in 2 dirs): Revert string changes in SotA for 1.14 RC 3 - gold https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/f843a0eebe56b3cd41ed76e184af9e1419525578 20180415 04:38:50< irker891> wesnoth: Iris Morelle wesnoth:1.14 13e21adcfd0a / / (1539 files in 27 dirs): pot and documentation update https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/13e21adcfd0a47fdf0fc1c3f9576695d03d5ec34 20180415 04:38:53<+discordbot> 1 a month at minimum 20180415 04:39:52<+discordbot> preferably 1 every 2 weeks given we have any fixes. 20180415 04:41:06<+discordbot> obviously things will stabilize and eventually we'll stop releasing patches for 1.14, but initially we need to get things out fast 20180415 04:42:20<+discordbot> Depending on the type of bug fixed, we might even push a hotfix patch to Steam without a desktop release. But that would only be in cases of severe bugs like security holes or crashes. 20180415 04:43:43<+discordbot> I strongly advise that for security bugs you don't give Steam an unprecedented privilege and make sure you go through the usual process for all platforms at the same time. 20180415 04:44:15< celticminstrel> No, don't ever push a patch to Steam only. 20180415 04:46:28< irker891> wesnoth/wesnoth:1.14 Celtic Minstrel 1b4dd2ebe6 Fix #2894 AppVeyor: 2/4 builds failed 20180415 04:46:29< irker891> Details vs2017/Release: https://ci.appveyor.com/project/wesnoth/wesnoth-605wt/build/Wesnoth-VS2017-1.14-2395 20180415 04:46:30< irker891> Details vs2015/Release: https://ci.appveyor.com/project/wesnoth/wesnoth-7lnpw/build/Wesnoth-VS2015-1.14-2687 20180415 04:46:58<+discordbot> (And in case you're not familiarised with said process, make sure to talk to Soliton or Rhonda or I in the event that such a bug is found.) 20180415 04:49:03-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180415 04:50:21< irker891> wesnoth/wesnoth:1.14 Severin Glöckner c11d9e5086 finish renaming of the Horseman to Pathf AppVeyor: vs2015/Release Failed 20180415 04:50:22< irker891> Details: https://ci.appveyor.com/project/wesnoth/wesnoth-7lnpw/build/Wesnoth-VS2015-1.14-2695 20180415 04:50:24-!- Oebele [~quassel@143.177.58.202] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180415 04:54:09-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy] 20180415 04:58:28-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-54-204-191-166.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180415 04:58:29-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180415 04:58:29< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#17633 (1.14 - 13e21ad : Iris Morelle): The build was broken. 20180415 04:58:29< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/366686157 20180415 04:58:29-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-54-204-191-166.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has left #wesnoth-dev [] 20180415 04:59:55<+discordbot> 20180415 04:47:02 error preprocessor: Macro/file 'campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/utils/kaleh-abilities.cfg' is missing 20180415 04:59:58<+discordbot> rolls eyes 20180415 05:00:06<+discordbot> why is that back 20180415 05:00:33<+discordbot> Because it wasn't the original issue. This is introduced by commit 5c057a1e09b8635daefc97de599d1e6523c2f6ab. 20180415 05:00:43<+discordbot> I left the include intact since I didn't know at the time the contents of the file were obsolete. 20180415 05:01:03<+discordbot> I see 20180415 05:01:08<+discordbot> I'll push it along with the other thing. 20180415 05:01:11<+discordbot> who doth shalt fix? 20180415 05:01:12<+discordbot> ah 20180415 05:12:22-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy] 20180415 05:12:56-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180415 05:20:52< celticminstrel> Random idea: key="string1"+"string2" is equivalent to key="sring1string2", while key="string1"++"string2" is equivalent to key="string1 string2". 20180415 05:23:04<+discordbot> Not really sure what that solves, since that would still be equivalent to key="string1"+" string2", wouldn't it? 20180415 05:23:23<+discordbot> why would you want such a thing 20180415 05:23:52< celticminstrel> For translatable strings. 20180415 05:24:04< celticminstrel> Currently you need to do key=_"string1"+" "+_"string2" 20180415 05:24:30< celticminstrel> Also, this construction is precedented in HyperTalk (which used & and && for concatenation with the same difference of semantics). 20180415 05:24:42< celticminstrel> (Though AppleScript dropped && IIRC.) 20180415 05:25:19< celticminstrel> (Note that you should never do that kind of concatenation unless string1 and string2 are both full sentences, though; also, they shouldn't reference each other.) 20180415 05:43:13< irker891> wesnoth: loonycyborg wesnoth:1.14 1eb762b4671d / src/server/server.cpp: wesnothd: made server fill in sender when forwarding whispers https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/1eb762b4671d7d4d7d551fc79ae3e8c0e7ba189b 20180415 05:43:15< irker891> wesnoth: Iris Morelle wesnoth:1.14 9afd4501e704 / src/server/server.cpp: wesnothd: Use actual username when sending lobby messages too https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/9afd4501e7049cca649b56bae9ad3f94b2f4fce9 20180415 05:43:19< irker891> wesnoth: Iris Morelle wesnoth:master 47b6b7f2a4f3 / src/server/server.cpp: wesnothd: Use actual username when sending lobby messages too https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/47b6b7f2a4f3d341415fb66265f902ff1103f3fb 20180415 05:45:02-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy] 20180415 05:45:31<+discordbot> Please add a security fix changelog entry 20180415 05:50:56< irker891> wesnoth: Iris Morelle wesnoth:1.14 bc195c0f1cac / changelog.md: Changelog entry for MP lobby message fixes https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/bc195c0f1cac307d149cbdcb01ea81265b1bfb32 20180415 05:50:59< irker891> wesnoth: Iris Morelle wesnoth:1.14 c6112fcfe3d4 / data/scenario-test.cfg: Remove stale include in test scenario causing errors https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/c6112fcfe3d4a75a50046553bfd0a3d5b62a21fb 20180415 05:51:03< irker891> wesnoth: Iris Morelle wesnoth:master 529e551d9e1a / changelog.md: Changelog entry for MP lobby message fixes https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/529e551d9e1a2f7483da0784e3f9b2fd26e41ac1 20180415 05:51:06< irker891> wesnoth: Iris Morelle wesnoth:master 0720065d7aa0 / data/scenario-test.cfg: Remove stale include in test scenario causing errors https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/0720065d7aa06c7c2f654dbfca5af5f4b8d79ffa 20180415 05:52:22<+discordbot> ALRIGHT 20180415 05:52:25<+discordbot> oops 20180415 05:52:26<+discordbot> caps 20180415 05:52:30<+discordbot> now we just need the pot update 20180415 05:52:38<+discordbot> What. No, we don't. 20180415 05:52:45<+discordbot> ok we don't 20180415 05:52:49<+discordbot> https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/13e21adcfd0a47fdf0fc1c3f9576695d03d5ec34 20180415 05:53:01<+discordbot> ...how did I miss that 20180415 05:53:04<+discordbot> I must be blind 20180415 05:53:22<+discordbot> I messed up the commit order big time, so I'm going to cancel the builds for the server commits. 20180415 05:53:51<+discordbot> already done 20180415 05:53:56<+discordbot> Oh good. 20180415 05:54:06<+discordbot> ok 20180415 05:54:09<+discordbot> once travis is done 20180415 05:54:12<+discordbot> if it passes 20180415 05:54:13<+discordbot> I'll tag 20180415 06:03:40< irker891> wesnoth: Celtic Minstrel wesnoth:master 0327085d99cf / changelog.md src/scripting/lua_gui2.cpp: Fix two of the dialog functions not accepting translatable strings https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/0327085d99cf98442b98c94145af7f91098bba7e 20180415 06:04:43< irker891> wesnoth/wesnoth:master Celtic Minstrel 4b33c94c0e Fix AI ignoring teleport locations when AppVeyor: 2/4 builds failed 20180415 06:04:44< irker891> Details vs2017/Release: https://ci.appveyor.com/project/wesnoth/wesnoth-605wt/build/Wesnoth-VS2017-master-2396 20180415 06:04:45< irker891> Details vs2015/Release: https://ci.appveyor.com/project/wesnoth/wesnoth-7lnpw/build/Wesnoth-VS2015-master-2688 20180415 06:12:44<+discordbot> backport? 20180415 06:13:30< celticminstrel> Probably not. @shadowm? 20180415 06:13:47< celticminstrel> Backporting means code that raised an error now doesn't. 20180415 06:13:57<+discordbot> Did the documentation claim at any point that they were supposed to accept translatable strings? 20180415 06:14:09<+discordbot> Or otherwise, is this a natural expectation? 20180415 06:14:27< celticminstrel> I don't think the documentation (which I only recently added) mentions whether they accept translatable strings. 20180415 06:14:34-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-54-166-67-148.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180415 06:14:35< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#17637 (1.14 - c6112fc : Iris Morelle): The build was fixed. 20180415 06:14:35< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/366695101 20180415 06:14:35-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-54-166-67-148.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has left #wesnoth-dev [] 20180415 06:14:42<+discordbot> *Or in the event that it didn't specify this, is this a natural expectation to have? 20180415 06:14:58< celticminstrel> I think it's generally a natural expectation for functions to accept translatable strings when the string is clearly going to be displayed to the screen. 20180415 06:15:12< celticminstrel> That applies in this case. 20180415 06:15:19< celticminstrel> So yes I think it's a natural expectation. 20180415 06:15:39<+discordbot> I think it's fine to backport then, the Lua GUI2 API being underused and all, there is a way to skip code based on version, etc. 20180415 06:15:45< celticminstrel> Alright. 20180415 06:18:40< celticminstrel> (Those functions are also new in 1.13.x.) 20180415 06:21:00< irker891> wesnoth/wesnoth:1.14 Iris Morelle 292b7052d2 Re-apply patches to fix issues #2844 and AppVeyor: vs2017/Release Failed 20180415 06:21:01< irker891> Details: https://ci.appveyor.com/project/wesnoth/wesnoth-605wt/build/Wesnoth-VS2017-1.14-2407 20180415 06:25:37<+discordbot> are you going to backport now? 20180415 06:25:48< celticminstrel> Testing first. 20180415 06:25:53< celticminstrel> Currently building. 20180415 06:26:11< celticminstrel> Just let me know whether to push before or after tagging. 20180415 06:26:19<+discordbot> before 20180415 06:29:13< irker891> wesnoth: Celtic Minstrel wesnoth:1.14 100d3d4840dd / changelog.md src/scripting/lua_gui2.cpp: Fix two of the dialog functions not accepting translatable strings https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/100d3d4840dd23abce8d95cc14577527d1ec674e 20180415 06:30:35< celticminstrel> There are an annoyingly large number of WML tags that were never retrofitted to support location_id... the latest one I've found is [unstore_unit]. Might push a patch for that eventually in master. 20180415 06:31:57<+discordbot> location_id? 20180415 06:32:40< celticminstrel> ... 20180415 06:32:46< celticminstrel> Named locations attached to the map? 20180415 06:32:59< celticminstrel> Generalization of side starting locations. 20180415 06:33:11<+discordbot> ah 20180415 06:33:31< celticminstrel> You know, the thing I fixed the editor palette for this morning. >_> (Or maybe last night from your perspective?) 20180415 06:33:41-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-54-166-67-148.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180415 06:33:42< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#17639 (master - 0327085 : Celtic Minstrel): The build passed. 20180415 06:33:42< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/366697147 20180415 06:33:43-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-54-166-67-148.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has left #wesnoth-dev [] 20180415 06:33:48< celticminstrel> ...I JUST REALIZED that it's 2:33 am. 20180415 06:33:58< celticminstrel> I have no idea why master passed all of a sudden. 20180415 06:34:58<+discordbot> Because the previous non-cancelled build failed: https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/366655835?utm_source=github_status&utm_medium=notification 20180415 06:35:40<+discordbot> It was shadowm's commit that fixed the build, but the Travis builds for that commit were cancelled. 20180415 06:36:04< irker891> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:1.14 801b867afa1b / / (5 files in 3 dirs): Pre-release version bump https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/801b867afa1bf2cb792d5d48d159be3c586aed0f 20180415 06:36:07< irker891> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:1.14 a31413cc82b5 / Doxyfile changelog.md players_changelog.md src/wesconfig.h: Post-release version bump https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/a31413cc82b57104d2243c55bd14ab33300e6592 20180415 06:36:10< irker891> wesnoth: Vultraz wesnoth: 801b867afa1b tagged as 1.13.14 20180415 06:36:22<+discordbot> @Packagers 1.13.14 is tagged 20180415 06:36:45<+discordbot> The bot didn't announce the tag here? 20180415 06:36:51<+discordbot> It doesn't do tags 20180415 06:36:55< celticminstrel> It announced it on IRC. 20180415 06:36:56<+discordbot> *webhook 20180415 06:36:58<+discordbot> let me check the settings 20180415 06:37:01<+discordbot> Let me -- okay. 20180415 06:37:49<+discordbot> Branch or Tag creation events added 20180415 06:43:26 * celticminstrel hopes loonycyborg has the package available by tomorrow, I want that dialog bugfix. >_> 20180415 06:49:19-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180415 06:50:41-!- celticminstrel is now known as celmin|sleep 20180415 07:03:31-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy] 20180415 07:22:42< irker891> wesnoth/wesnoth:1.14 ln-zookeeper 0b1aaecb6a UtBS: Removed obsolete slows note from Q AppVeyor: 2/4 builds failed 20180415 07:22:43< irker891> Details vs2015/Release: https://ci.appveyor.com/project/wesnoth/wesnoth-7lnpw/build/Wesnoth-VS2015-1.14-2689 20180415 07:22:44< irker891> Details vs2017/Release: https://ci.appveyor.com/project/wesnoth/wesnoth-605wt/build/Wesnoth-VS2017-1.14-2397 20180415 07:26:59-!- gallaecio [~quassel@188.79.96.255] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180415 07:36:15< irker891> wesnoth: loonycyborg wesnoth:master 2e24d20236ff / src/server/server.cpp: wesnothd: Fix UB caused by incorrect use of simple_wml::set_attr https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/2e24d20236ff25a30cf9e238ee1214d8e4d32989 20180415 07:38:15-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180415 07:38:50<+discordbot> backport? 20180415 07:39:55-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Client Quit] 20180415 07:41:40<+discordbot> Ok, I'll go create macOS package 20180415 07:46:26-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180415 07:47:06-!- grzywacz [~karol@89-70-226-147.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180415 07:48:15-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180415 07:49:50< irker891> wesnoth: loonycyborg wesnoth:1.14 b9ee43f24fa8 / src/server/server.cpp: wesnothd: Fix UB caused by incorrect use of simple_wml::set_attr https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/b9ee43f24fa8d42db638372f0bc5dd0061804bb5 20180415 07:59:22< zookeeper> @Vultraz, what is this thing that LB needs more time for? 20180415 08:00:35< zookeeper> if it's the UtBS portraits then it's not like those will be done in time for 1.14.0, there's a whole bunch he hasn't even started on. 20180415 08:01:12<+discordbot> "I can probably finish the key campaign portraits (quenoth characters and the goddess) by the 22nd, but it’d be nice to add a couple extras" 20180415 08:02:11<+discordbot> (quoth the bob) 20180415 08:03:33< zookeeper> sounds tremendously optimistic 20180415 08:04:15<+discordbot> We Shall See 20180415 08:09:43-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy] 20180415 08:21:14-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180415 08:28:15-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180415 08:28:54-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180415 08:29:53-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-54-147-215-250.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180415 08:29:54< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#17642 (1.13.14 - 801b867 : Charles Dang): The build passed. 20180415 08:29:54< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/366702621 20180415 08:29:54-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-54-147-215-250.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has left #wesnoth-dev [] 20180415 08:37:39-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180415 08:37:57<+discordbot> wesnoth_1.13.14 on SourcesForge doesn't exist. Should I create it? 20180415 08:38:19-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180415 08:38:37< irker891> wesnoth/wesnoth:1.14 Celtic Minstrel 14d6fc8ebb Fix #2894 AppVeyor: 2/4 builds failed 20180415 08:38:38< irker891> Details vs2015/Release: https://ci.appveyor.com/project/wesnoth/wesnoth-7lnpw/build/Wesnoth-VS2015-1.14-2691 20180415 08:38:39<+discordbot> It's wesnoth-1.13.14 (hyphen) but yes. 20180415 08:38:39< irker891> Details vs2017/Release: https://ci.appveyor.com/project/wesnoth/wesnoth-605wt/build/Wesnoth-VS2017-1.14-2399 20180415 08:38:56<+discordbot> oh, yes. ok, I'll create it 20180415 08:49:08<+discordbot> @Vultraz @hrubymar10 ^ 20180415 08:49:19<+discordbot> (I just renamed the repository to steam-meta though.) 20180415 08:50:00<+discordbot> So I should be able to access this repo Read&Write and translate it to Czech, right? 20180415 08:50:54<+discordbot> @shadowm , there are many missing strings 20180415 08:51:01<+discordbot> I am aware. 20180415 08:51:15<+discordbot> I started with the strings that were available at the time I looked at the page. 20180415 08:51:36<+discordbot> You can use this: https://github.com/hrubymar10/wesnoth-steam/blob/master/steam_strings.php 20180415 08:51:46<+discordbot> Wait. 20180415 08:51:52<+discordbot> Also system requirements are translatable 20180415 08:51:57<+discordbot> The system requirements didn't-- are they? 20180415 08:52:06<+discordbot> they are 20180415 08:52:31<+discordbot> you can localise 'Windows 7 SP1 or later' to (for example) 'Windows 7 SP1 a vyšší' 20180415 08:53:03<+discordbot> Where is this? 20180415 08:53:14<+discordbot> Oh. 20180415 08:53:16<+discordbot> Fond it. 20180415 08:53:37<+discordbot> And there are also Early Access things. We have it blank now, but I thought it would be good to include everything 20180415 08:54:08<+discordbot> There's no need to include things that won't be used. This is supposed to be easy for translators without any knowledge of the Steam stuff to handle. 20180415 08:54:47<+discordbot> gettext just doesn't include blank translations so translators won't even know 😄 20180415 08:57:23<+discordbot> We aren’t using anything related to early access 20180415 08:58:39<+discordbot> @ancestral , @Tad Carlucci , @sinda and @galegosimpatico : Can anyone test new macOS package? 20180415 08:59:30<+discordbot> https://sourceforge.net/projects/wesnoth/files/wesnoth/wesnoth-1.13.14/ 20180415 09:01:01<+discordbot> sha256 sum uploaded to f.w.o 20180415 09:06:50<+discordbot> Haven't decided yet whether to make people go through Ivanovic or file issues directly to the repository. 20180415 09:06:50<+discordbot> (Yes, I said issues, nor PRs.) 20180415 09:07:29<+discordbot> I can easily take care of merging translations without robbing him of his spare time. 20180415 09:08:10<+discordbot> (I will kill anyone who decides to bypass the process and push unwrapped catalogues into the repository, though.) 20180415 09:09:55<+discordbot> I think that translations should be one only once, because I don't expect that wesnoth description will be changed regularly so if you will take care of it, then all should be good. Different question is, who will take care of copy&paste phase to steamworks 🤔 20180415 09:10:12<+discordbot> They can change in the future. 20180415 09:10:24<+discordbot> They can change at a moment's notice if Vultraz decides so, really. 20180415 09:10:44<+discordbot> Although I'll be keeping an eye on him to make sure this is frozen at the same time as the release announcement. 20180415 09:11:11<+discordbot> I'm downloading, I can have a look later in the evening. 20180415 09:11:22<+discordbot> Thanks 20180415 09:12:44<+discordbot> And you might want to hold off on translating for the moment anyway since he's got to write the description. 20180415 09:12:55<+discordbot> What is currently there is just a placeholder. 20180415 09:14:19<+discordbot> Somebody should inform translators about this new catalog, but after it will be final 20180415 09:16:17<+discordbot> I'll take care of that when the time is right since I'm already doing the communication part of i18n work. 20180415 09:16:37<+discordbot> kk 20180415 09:20:59< irker891> wesnoth: Nils Kneuper wesnoth:master c359b7a82966 / po/ (6 files in 6 dirs): updated Galician translation https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/c359b7a82966a6d4e3b72849479dc1d3e9aaff91 20180415 09:21:05< irker891> wesnoth: Nils Kneuper wesnoth:1.14 26cda6bd21c4 / / (8 files in 7 dirs): updated Galician translation https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/26cda6bd21c40c05997b3a0cd6d95464db9b4515 20180415 09:21:25<+discordbot> Too late for 1.13.14 😄 20180415 09:35:48-!- atarocch [~atarocch@109.112.10.224] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180415 09:39:44-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180415 09:40:20-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180415 09:40:38-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180415 09:50:23< irker891> wesnoth/wesnoth:1.14 Severin Glöckner c11d9e5086 finish renaming of the Horseman to Pathf AppVeyor: 2/4 builds failed 20180415 09:50:24< irker891> Details vs2015/Release: https://ci.appveyor.com/project/wesnoth/wesnoth-7lnpw/build/Wesnoth-VS2015-1.14-2695 20180415 09:50:25< irker891> Details vs2017/Release: https://ci.appveyor.com/project/wesnoth/wesnoth-605wt/build/Wesnoth-VS2017-1.14-2403 20180415 09:53:28-!- louis94 [~~louis94@91.176.171.238] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180415 09:59:59-!- louis94 [~~louis94@91.176.171.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20180415 10:04:00<+discordbot> I kinda thought that could be the description 20180415 10:04:02<+discordbot> 🤔 20180415 10:04:31<+discordbot> but I guess i need to talk more about what the game offers 20180415 10:04:34<+discordbot> I shall get on it 20180415 10:06:21-!- louis94 [~~louis94@91.176.171.238] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180415 10:07:39<+discordbot> Yeah, well, I'm pretty sure most games this size on Steam have far more elaborate descriptions. 20180415 10:07:51<+discordbot> You could take some ideas from the wesnoth.org home page. 20180415 10:08:49<+discordbot> (And odds are I'll end up merging parts back into the latter when it eventuallyturns out your description is better after a dozen revisions.) 20180415 11:13:06-!- louis94 [~~louis94@91.176.171.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20180415 11:21:01< irker891> wesnoth/wesnoth:1.14 Iris Morelle 292b7052d2 Re-apply patches to fix issues #2844 and AppVeyor: 2/4 builds failed 20180415 11:21:02< irker891> Details vs2017/Release: https://ci.appveyor.com/project/wesnoth/wesnoth-605wt/build/Wesnoth-VS2017-1.14-2407 20180415 11:21:03< irker891> Details vs2015/Release: https://ci.appveyor.com/project/wesnoth/wesnoth-7lnpw/build/Wesnoth-VS2015-1.14-2699 20180415 11:35:30-!- atarocch [~atarocch@109.112.10.224] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20180415 11:46:05-!- Choicerer [d5884076@gateway/web/freenode/ip.213.136.64.118] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180415 11:46:09< Choicerer> Hi. 20180415 11:46:31< Choicerer> I'd like to ask about the user who goes by the nickname of Elder Of Zion? 20180415 11:47:06< Choicerer> His nickname is clearly violating your MP rules of conduct, why is he still the pillar of the community? 20180415 11:53:58<+discordbot> Wrong channel? 20180415 11:54:17< Choicerer> I'm not on discord. 20180415 11:54:25<+discordbot> ah 20180415 11:54:27< Choicerer> I can only message general. 20180415 12:09:16<+discordbot> but... you're messaging development 20180415 12:42:38< grzywacz> Tutorial: "Visiting villages is a good idea, and ending your turn on one will heal you." -- technically it's beginning one's turn in a village that heals... 20180415 12:46:53< grzywacz> Gah, Dunefolk, it's so awkward to see marksman with melee weapons. Looks like in slavic languages "marksman" translates to words that imply shooting/ranged combat. 20180415 12:49:05-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180415 12:49:53<+discordbot> I've uploaded 1.13.14 20180415 12:53:05<+discordbot> It's rather awkward in English as well, but I suppose that the devs didn't want to make redundant abilities. 20180415 12:55:18-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180415 12:55:55-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180415 13:15:15< loonycyborg> grzywacz: actually marksman might be considered to imply ranged combat in english too 20180415 13:16:05< loonycyborg> maybe "marksman" should be changed to "precise" 20180415 13:27:12-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180415 13:27:50-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180415 13:32:19-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Client Quit] 20180415 13:32:34-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180415 13:34:45< Choicerer> umm, okay. are you telling me to copy-paste the same thing into another channel before you answer it? 20180415 13:34:58< Choicerer> In that case I'll have to register on discord. 20180415 13:36:04< zookeeper> it's entirely possible no one just wants to try to answer it, but don't quote me on that. 20180415 13:36:36< vn971> Choicerer: I think people mean to join #wesnoth channel, that's all. The non-dev one. 20180415 13:37:34< Choicerer> Oh hell, you're right 20180415 13:37:39< Choicerer> Why would nobody want that? 20180415 13:37:43< Choicerer> want to anser it? 20180415 13:38:23< Choicerer> There must be some rationale behind you people not doing anything about it. 20180415 13:38:50< Choicerer> I'd love to know it. 20180415 13:38:52< vn971> Choicerer: How es Elder offensive exactly? I never heard him doing anything "bad". 20180415 13:39:10< Choicerer> He has. I'm speaking about his nickname though. 20180415 13:39:50< Choicerer> Maybe you are not aware but the Protocols of the Elders of Zion is an early 20th century antisemtic conspiracy text that then went on to become the core of Nazi propaganda. 20180415 13:40:19< vn971> Choicerer: ah, indeed I did not know that. 20180415 13:40:24< Choicerer> Guy is a super alt-right neo-nazi and if you play with him a bit in-game, you will find that out, too. 20180415 13:41:24< Choicerer> By the way, sorry about messaging development, I thought this was the only irc channel you had. 20180415 13:41:54< Choicerer> I think the link at useful links points to this channel. 20180415 13:42:31<+discordbot> I think there's a MP server channel that leads directly to the mods, I'm not sure? 20180415 13:45:12<+discordbot> I'm not really against airing grievances in the public, in all honesty, but you messages are in a public Discord which EoZ is a member of. 20180415 13:45:47< Choicerer> This has nothing to do with any grievances, I'm reporting a violation of the MP code of conduct. 20180415 13:45:48< vn971> Choicerer: reading on wiki what Elders Of Zions means, I support your request passively (I think it can indeed be offensive, thus violating CoC). But I'm not a moderator. 20180415 13:46:25< vn971> EoZ is indeed a member of both this chat and #wesnoth IIRC. 20180415 13:46:28< Choicerer> Well, if guy was called MeinKampf, would that be okay? ElderOfZion's the same thing, just less people know about it. Those who do, get offended straight away. 20180415 13:46:44< Choicerer> I get offended every time I have to deal with the guy. 20180415 13:47:24< Choicerer> I mean, I understand that maybe if he's a really devoted player, you don't want to remove him from the game, but you could at least force him to change his nickname. 20180415 13:47:31<+discordbot> A grievance is a formal complaint, which reporting a violation of the MP code of conduct would entail. I didn't mean to discredit your complaints. 20180415 13:49:47< Choicerer> I guess you're right. When I think grievance, I think of a personal complaint, this is a bit different for me, because we're talking about the guy's nickname. 20180415 13:52:54<+discordbot> Checking Merriam-Webster, it seems something of both: the complaint and its circumstances? 20180415 13:53:06<+discordbot> That's besides the point. 20180415 13:53:13< Choicerer> Sure. 20180415 13:54:08<+discordbot> If you have genuine evidence of him being a neo-Nazi or otherwise racist, you I'd recommend that you forward the admins replays. 20180415 13:55:02-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180415 13:55:18< Choicerer> Why would I do go on about doing that? His nickname is enough in the first place. 20180415 13:55:21-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180415 13:55:53< irker891> wesnoth/wesnoth:1.13.14 Charles Dang 801b867afa Pre-release version bump AppVeyor: All builds passed 20180415 13:56:59< Choicerer> And why is the burden on me to do something about it? If I'm a mod, I see a guy with an antisemitic nickname, I go inside a game he's playing, I look out for offensive comments. 20180415 13:57:07-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180415 13:57:25-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180415 13:57:59< Choicerer> I think he's playing this game for very long. My guess is nothing's been done about it because of him being a dedicated player? But at the same time he's violating the code of conduct just with his nickname to begin with. 20180415 13:58:06< Choicerer> *he's been playing 20180415 13:58:30< Choicerer> It's offensive, puts people off... 20180415 13:58:48-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180415 13:59:06-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180415 13:59:22< vn971> Choicerer: if not anything else, EoZ is a long-known player. Banning people away is not always the best choice. Besides, I, for one, never heard anything racist or offensive from him, addressed to me or anybody else. A link to a replay could help anyway, IMO.. 20180415 14:00:58<+discordbot> Having an anti-Semitic name and being actively anti-Semitic are two different levels of offence. 20180415 14:00:59< Choicerer> I give up. Guy is violating the code of conduct with his nickname alone. Does this mean the code is non-binding if I play the game a lot? 20180415 14:01:07< Choicerer> Absoulutely not. 20180415 14:01:25-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180415 14:01:43< Choicerer> Having an anti-semitic name is quite bad cause you get too see it every time you look at the player list 20180415 14:02:09-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180415 14:02:14<+discordbot> I didn't say that they weren't both bad, but only one of them is proof of actively hating Jewish people. 20180415 14:02:28< Choicerer> Hahaha 20180415 14:02:42< Choicerer> Okay, otherwise they are passively hating Jews? 20180415 14:04:06<+discordbot> Casual racism. 20180415 14:04:49<+discordbot> If there's proof of actively expressing anti-Semitic views, then a simple name change isn't going to fix much. 20180415 14:05:34< Choicerer> Okay, then I would like an MP rule to be added to the code of conduct. "Causal racism" (which is a ridiculous invention of yours, by the way) is okay. Offensive nicknames are okay. 20180415 14:05:52< Choicerer> Then I'll just be sure to stay away from the game! 20180415 14:05:55<+discordbot> I didn't say that it was okay, either. 20180415 14:05:55< vn971> Choicerer: does the question of liking a game replay offend you? 20180415 14:06:01< Choicerer> And there would be less confusion. 20180415 14:06:02< vn971> * of linking 20180415 14:06:05<+discordbot> They require two different levels of punishment. 20180415 14:06:37<+discordbot> Well, not require, I don't run this place. 20180415 14:07:10< Choicerer> I absolutely can't be bothered to browse through game replays to find his comments about minorities, jewish conspiracies etc. This shouldn't be users' responsibility. I have a feeling this game is severely under-moderated. 20180415 14:07:43<+discordbot> While you're right about this game being under-moderated, when you accuse somebody of neo-Nazism, the burden of proof is on you. 20180415 14:08:03<+discordbot> Users and moderators need to cooperate. 20180415 14:08:04< vn971> Choicerer: moderators don't have the time to check every possible game. If you want something done, help them. I once had a nick that was a name of a drug. I just didn't know that. 20180415 14:08:49< vn971> Choicerer: there are numerous combinations on what might have happen. The attempt to "ban first" without getting the details is not healthy at all. 20180415 14:09:13-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180415 14:09:26< Choicerer> Look, this discussion is ridiculous. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about, ksenia. There is no such thing as casual racism. And there aren't any punishments to be dealt, if a user is violating the code of conduct, the matter should be resolved, period. 20180415 14:09:29<+discordbot> Moderators need to moderate, while users need to inform them of what they need to moderate, and give them enough proof not to pressure an administration which already lacks significant manpower. 20180415 14:09:31-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180415 14:10:06< Choicerer> Which, as I said, he is violating with his nickname alone. 20180415 14:10:16< Choicerer> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Protocols_of_the_Elders_of_Zion go educate yourself 20180415 14:10:27<+discordbot> I already know what the Protocols are. 20180415 14:10:37< Choicerer> Causal racism sounds like a racist neologism in the first place. 20180415 14:10:53<+discordbot> It's actually a term used by the left, as far as I know. 20180415 14:11:20<+discordbot> There's differences in severity, anyway. 20180415 14:11:52<+discordbot> If somebody's violating the rules with just their nickname, then their nickname should be changed. If somebody's violating the rules by being racist, then further action should be taken. 20180415 14:12:03<+discordbot> I'm not even disagreeing with you. 20180415 14:12:15< Choicerer> Absoultely. The nickame hasn't been changed for ages though 20180415 14:12:35<+discordbot> Well I'm most definitely not an mp mod, but I wouldn't assume anyone referencing the Protocols automatically racist 20180415 14:12:54<+discordbot> maybe this reference made to ridicule racists instead? 20180415 14:12:59< Choicerer> hahaha 20180415 14:13:01<+discordbot> precisely 20180415 14:13:05< Choicerer> Okay, I give up. 20180415 14:13:25< grzywacz> Is "Hitler" a nickname that violates the CoC? 20180415 14:13:38<+discordbot> It's still against the rules, mind you. 20180415 14:13:46<+discordbot> For the record, project policy is not to discuss MP moderation decisions in public. 20180415 14:14:26< Choicerer> Okay, for the record, a guy with a nickname referencing the Protocols is definitely racist. 20180415 14:14:38< Choicerer> You would be a fool or a racism apologist to say otherwise. 20180415 14:14:49<+discordbot> @jyrkiv: Noted. 20180415 14:14:55< Choicerer> Now, my patience has run thin, so I'm out of the discussion. 20180415 14:15:47< Choicerer> But I did want to let you know, this doesn't put the game in a very good light. Becaue your regular user is violating your rules with his nickname alone and you haven't done a blimming thing about it for ages. 20180415 14:16:09< Choicerer> It certainly does put people off game and is overall a terrible thing to be condoning. 20180415 14:17:16<+discordbot> Like think about it: someone who is a nazi wouldn't adopt such a name, since he purports to fight zionism, not to become one of them 20180415 14:17:24<+discordbot> You could be ridiculing the book, but if we're simply talking about the nickname policy then intent isn't relevant as so much as actual offence. 20180415 14:17:42<+discordbot> However someone who got called a zionist many times for not being racist would adopt such a name ironically 20180415 14:18:53<+discordbot> Nazis would ironically adopt such nicknames to satirise their image of Jews, but then Jews would ironically adopt such nicknames to satirise the Nazis. 20180415 14:18:54<+discordbot> Alright, @ksenia has been warned because 'Bad word usage'. 20180415 14:18:58< Choicerer> He certainly would not. It's antisemitic conspiracy book.That's a terrible stretch, and nobody in their right mind would choose such a nickname. 20180415 14:19:10<+discordbot> ? 20180415 14:19:37<+discordbot> I'm legitimately confused. 20180415 14:19:49<+discordbot> I'm going to guess that you can say anti-Semite and Nazi, but not... 20180415 14:19:52< Choicerer> Ksenia, you seem to be a racism apologist. Jews would never ironically adpot any antisemitic nicknames, that's a very racist idea in the first place. 20180415 14:20:01<+discordbot> Only actual racists with nazi ties are even aware that this book exists 20180415 14:20:11<+discordbot> I for example had to look it up in wikipedia 20180415 14:20:18<+discordbot> doesn't that make Choicerer a racist 20180415 14:20:53< Choicerer> Guys, enjoy your racist troll lives. 20180415 14:21:13< Choicerer> Meanwhile, I think the moderation team should definitely have higher standards. 20180415 14:21:18-!- Choicerer [d5884076@gateway/web/freenode/ip.213.136.64.118] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20180415 14:22:12< zookeeper> @loonycyborg, uh, that's like totally not true. on the contrary, i'm always surprised when people _don't_ know about it. 20180415 14:22:35<+discordbot> it's not like that book is in school program 20180415 14:22:48<+discordbot> You can know about books without them being originally mentioned in school. 20180415 14:23:08<+discordbot> It just wasn't in my sphere of interest 20180415 14:23:18<+discordbot> I vaguely heard about it somewhere 20180415 14:23:34<+discordbot> but to me it wasn't even connected to racism until I looked it up 20180415 14:23:35<+discordbot> I hadn't heard about it, either. 20180415 14:23:38<+discordbot> if you end up looking at anti-Semitism then you'll probably find the Protocols rather quickly 20180415 14:23:46< zookeeper> ^ 20180415 14:23:50<+discordbot> well the problem is 20180415 14:23:52<+discordbot> I didn't 20180415 14:24:21<+discordbot> Russia is full of casual anti-semitism but I always thought anti-semitism is dumb 20180415 14:24:29<+discordbot> so noaturally I didn't research it 20180415 14:24:35<+discordbot> it seems that the same goes for most people, which is why nothing has been mentioned until recently 20180415 14:25:05< vn971> Considering Choicerer didn't bother himself with any replay links, I think a message should be sent to EoZ politely asking to change the nickname. 20180415 14:25:10< vn971> moderators, thoughts? 20180415 14:27:18<+discordbot> I agree with you, but I don't think they're actively allowed to mention their decisions. 20180415 14:29:21-!- stikonas_ [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180415 14:31:05< Ravana_> it is not the first time EoZ name has been discussed 20180415 14:31:54<+discordbot> I see. 20180415 14:32:05-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20180415 14:32:05<+discordbot> What were the results of previous conversations? 20180415 14:32:50< zookeeper> For the record, project policy is not to discuss MP moderation decisions in public. 20180415 14:32:59<+discordbot> Wait, no, what the hell. I'm not a judge. 20180415 14:34:10-!- stikonas_ is now known as stikonas 20180415 14:47:28<+discordbot> Choicerer "Jews would never ironically adpot any antisemitic nicknames" umm... that was the second hit on google when I searched it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elder_of_Ziyon 20180415 14:52:01<+discordbot> my suggestion would be to write down what information you have and send it as a forum PM to the MP Moderators Group. http://forums.wesnoth.org/ucp.php?i=pm&mode=compose&g=6651 20180415 14:53:32< celmin|sleep> What the hell? Why was everyone railing on Choicerer? I totally agree with him in general. 20180415 14:54:58<+discordbot> I agreed with him and the less specific details of his approach, and then he accused me of being a racist troll. 20180415 14:57:07< celmin|sleep> And replays are publicly available, so in theory it should be possible to automatically scrape them for EoZ's comments to test whether he's really what Choicerer thinks he is. 20180415 14:58:30<+discordbot> I am not sure how my words could be interpreted as "railing" but if so, I apologize. 20180415 14:59:17< celmin|sleep> @sapient_n3t That comment was not addressed to you but to other people earlier, such as vgaming. 20180415 14:59:45< celmin|sleep> vn971 rather 20180415 15:00:09< zookeeper> i find it unironically problematic that people keep saying that action should be taken against people based on what they are, and not what they do. 20180415 15:00:21<+discordbot> I am sure these accusations will be investigated IN the proper venue 20180415 15:00:36-!- louis94 [~~louis94@91.176.171.238] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180415 15:00:56<+discordbot> zookeeper: Agreed. 20180415 15:01:00< celmin|sleep> I'm not saying action should be taken against him based on what he is, but if he is what Choicerer says he is, then there is a very low probability that he hasn't done something worth taking action against. 20180415 15:01:22<+discordbot> Agreed with zookeeper. 20180415 15:01:36< vn971> celmin|sleep: I didn't notice that I was "railing". I'll ask in private. 20180415 15:01:50<+discordbot> If it's true that "Guy is a super alt-right neo-nazi and if you play with him a bit in-game, you will find that out, too." as choicerer says, then it should be very easy to provide a replay proving as much. Instead he came to the development channel, gave no proof, then demanded action be taken on his word alone anyway, and declared we have low standards when action wasn't taken. 20180415 15:02:04<+discordbot> pretty much every step he took to bring this up was done incorrectly 20180415 15:02:46< celmin|sleep> Well, easy in some sense, definitely. 20180415 15:02:50-!- celmin|sleep is now known as celticminstrel 20180415 15:03:13<+discordbot> I confess that I was ignorant about that protocol thing, so I am glad I learned something, even if he went about it the wrong way. so... thanks? heh 20180415 15:03:21<+discordbot> I somewhat do not agree with zookeeper. 20180415 15:03:30< celticminstrel> But really that means downloading every replay, uncompressing it, and grepping for his name. 20180415 15:03:46< celticminstrel> Unless you happen to have a specific replay handy. 20180415 15:03:56-!- atarocch [~atarocch@93.56.164.28] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180415 15:04:11<+discordbot> If he's able to say it, then he should have one himself, I would think 20180415 15:04:12<+discordbot> EoZ is actually currently on, and speaking. Isn't it fair to request his comment? 20180415 15:04:22< celticminstrel> I don't know. 20180415 15:04:45<+discordbot> grabs some popcorn 20180415 15:04:55<+discordbot> @ksenia this isn't the mod channel, so it's not something that should be discussed here anyway. 20180415 15:05:15<+discordbot> Fair. 20180415 15:05:40<+discordbot> (in the sense that I believe when it comes to thinks like anti-Semitism, one cannot separate someone's affiliation from their actions) 20180415 15:05:43< celticminstrel> Yeah, this should just be handed over to the mods to do with what they will (but I do think they should search the replays to confirm/deny Choicerer's words). 20180415 15:08:11<+discordbot> (because one's actions are usually what betrays their affiliation. There's really no such thing as a "good guy" nazi >_> ) 20180415 15:08:15<+discordbot> That being said 20180415 15:08:40< celticminstrel> Pretty sure I've seen EoZ on the forums too. 20180415 15:08:44<+discordbot> Racism is abhorrent, but you can't fairly punish people for thought crime. 20180415 15:09:12< celticminstrel> And I haven't seen anything problematic from him there, though I think I haven't seen him that much either. 20180415 15:09:19<+discordbot> We can if they exhibit that racism. 20180415 15:09:27<+discordbot> Then it's not thought crime. 20180415 15:10:21<+discordbot> EoZ would be banned if, as celmin said, evidence (such as chat logs) emerged of him engaging in anti-Semitic behavior. 20180415 15:11:16< celticminstrel> Right, and given Choicerer's report I think it's fair to actively search for such evidence. 20180415 15:11:37< celticminstrel> (That said, don't try to see it where it doesn't exist, obviously.) 20180415 15:11:53<+discordbot> EoZ has denied his nickname is anything anti-Semitic, for the record. 20180415 15:12:13<+discordbot> woe is the person who has to actively parse replays 20180415 15:12:29<+discordbot> It can be automated 20180415 15:12:44<+discordbot> bad word choice 20180415 15:12:56<+discordbot> how so? 20180415 15:13:01< vn971> celticminstrel: you propose others do it or you wanna do it yourself?.. 20180415 15:13:13<+discordbot> replay wml seems like a maze 20180415 15:13:35<+discordbot> It's only the chat messages we care about 20180415 15:14:00<+discordbot> I mean, in all honesty, I'm kind of exaggerating. 20180415 15:14:23<+discordbot> HOWEVER 20180415 15:14:40< vn971> // celticminstrel: main point of my message is that you are generally expected to do something if it worries you and it's as easy for you as for the mods. Sometimes it makes all the sense to help. 20180415 15:14:42<+discordbot> I believe there is sufficient ground for us to request he change his nickname 20180415 15:14:53< celticminstrel> @Vultraz So either he's trying to divert attention from the anti-Semitic meanings of his name, or he legitimately doesn't know of them. 20180415 15:15:09< celticminstrel> So point out the link on Wikipedia or something and request a nick-change. 20180415 15:15:36<+discordbot> That's what I'm saying, yes 20180415 15:15:37<+discordbot> I don't believe for a second that he isn't aware of the book. 20180415 15:15:56<+discordbot> It's hiding them, or an ironic name. 20180415 15:16:14< celticminstrel> vn971: Well, the replays are available to everyone. Literally anyone with a little shell-script knowledge could download and scrape them. 20180415 15:16:32< vn971> @ksenia no reason to assume anything specific at all, we can politely ask no matter what. 20180415 15:17:05<+discordbot> I concur. 20180415 15:29:37-!- louis94 [~~louis94@91.176.171.238] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180415 15:30:06-!- louis94 [~~louis94@91.176.171.238] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180415 15:35:43< celticminstrel> vn971: Sorry for singling you out (ksenia and loobycyborg and, frankly, Choicerer himself were also at fault), and reading through it again I think "railing" may have been an exaggeration. I just think that discussion was very poorly handled. 20180415 15:36:59< celticminstrel> When someone comes to you with a complaint, you should assume good faith, take it at face value, and promise to investigate it. 20180415 15:38:01< celticminstrel> It's reasonable to ask him for a replay, but describing it as placing the burden of proof on him seems a bit much; instead it could be described as asking him to help locate the evidence or some such. 20180415 15:41:44< celticminstrel> Alright, on another note, @Vultraz! Do you mind if I remove the multiplication signs from the stats dialog? 20180415 15:41:55<+discordbot> I do mind 20180415 15:42:12<+discordbot> It seems it will make it less clear 20180415 15:42:30< celticminstrel> I don't see how it could possibly make it less clear. 20180415 15:43:07<+discordbot> xN would be fine too I guess 20180415 15:43:14<+discordbot> or even making it Nx type 20180415 15:43:15< celticminstrel> You clearly have a table with unit names in the left column and numbers in the right column. What else could that possibly mean? 20180415 15:43:17<+discordbot> instead of type Nx 20180415 15:43:23< celticminstrel> You want to swap the columns? 20180415 15:43:29<+discordbot> it might be acceptable 20180415 15:43:40< celticminstrel> Hmm... 20180415 15:43:47< celticminstrel> Not convinced TBH... 20180415 15:44:44< celticminstrel> But I guess it is a little better than the current situation, so sure, I'll do that. 20180415 15:45:06<+discordbot> I'll write the announcementnrnrnjnrjnjnfjnjdn pge tonrootooeow 20180415 15:46:17<+discordbot> lol 20180415 15:46:34<+discordbot> ANNOUNCEMENT TOMORROW 20180415 15:46:37<+discordbot> >_> 20180415 15:46:41<+discordbot> damn this keyboard 20180415 15:46:57<+discordbot> 😄 20180415 15:47:02< celticminstrel> Can you really blame that on the keyboard? :P 20180415 15:47:11< celticminstrel> Did loonycyborg put up the Windows package yet? 20180415 15:47:17<+discordbot> I got frustrated with keys popping up 20180415 15:47:21<+discordbot> I don't know 20180415 15:47:23< celticminstrel> (Oh sorry I misspelled his name earlier. >_> ) 20180415 15:47:33<+discordbot> yes 20180415 15:47:40<+discordbot> did you push the steam update? 20180415 15:49:36<+discordbot> Not really necessary yet 20180415 15:49:38<+discordbot> but just wondering 20180415 15:49:52<+discordbot> I did for macOS package 20180415 15:50:31<+discordbot> 👌 20180415 15:51:16<+discordbot> yes 20180415 15:51:22<+discordbot> steam is up-to-date too 20180415 15:51:37<+discordbot> perfect 20180415 15:51:41<+discordbot> linux and windows? 20180415 15:59:09-!- louis94 [~~louis94@91.176.171.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20180415 16:03:11<+discordbot> yes 20180415 16:08:27<+discordbot> Anyway, comment before I go to bed: the previous discussion did get rather out of hand (yes, I share some of that blame). In future, let's try to keep report discussion private. A DM/DM group is acceptable. But passionate debates (however right one party may be), do not usually end well and with the hindsight offered by an extra hour, it's something I should have shut down instead of continuing. So, apologies, but let's all try not 20180415 16:08:28<+discordbot> to get roped into such a thing again. 20180415 16:16:22< vn971> oh, strange. I was on MP server. For a very long time, there were no [visual] changes in the lobby. I clicked on a user, saw the pop-up window with buttons "send PM" / "ignore" / "add to friends". I dismissed said window and then wesnoth said I'm disconnected from server. 20180415 16:17:23< vn971> Upon re-joining, I see that most of the stuff changed: different users online, two active games etc. So the client was offline for a long time. 20180415 16:48:41-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180415 16:56:49-!- Oebele [~quassel@143.177.58.202] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180415 16:57:48-!- irker891 [~irker@uruz.ai0867.net] has quit [Quit: transmission timeout] 20180415 17:06:54<+discordbot> I found an interesting CppCon talk. 20180415 17:06:54<+discordbot> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2XtqVZcSdM 20180415 17:11:32-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180415 17:13:23<+discordbot> Seems relevant 20180415 17:13:52<+discordbot> Well, it's intended for projects an order of magnitude larger than Wesnoth. 20180415 17:14:04<+discordbot> But I think some of its advice can still be useful. 20180415 17:14:26-!- irker473 [~irker@uruz.ai0867.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180415 17:14:26< irker473> wesnoth/wesnoth:master Nils Kneuper c359b7a829 updated Galician translation AppVeyor: All builds passed 20180415 17:19:35-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180415 17:50:30< irker473> wesnoth: Nils Kneuper wesnoth:1.14 f0514800d60c / / (11 files in 10 dirs): updated French translation https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/f0514800d60cf84e6dfdbed92fdd0c23c94fe203 20180415 17:50:36< irker473> wesnoth: Nils Kneuper wesnoth:master 6e85da54bcce / po/ (9 files in 9 dirs): updated French translation https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/6e85da54bcce88b686d9ab791949cce237ee9358 20180415 17:56:56< celticminstrel> A nice thing about cherry-pick is that if I only need the last commit on 1.14 I can just "git cherry-pick 1.14", no need to know or paste the commit hash. 20180415 17:58:11< irker473> wesnoth: Celtic Minstrel wesnoth:master ddd3222b3da2 / data/gui/window/statistics_dialog.cfg: Swap count and name columns in statistics (fixes #2893) https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/ddd3222b3da26ec0cf6dd82adcd7d640ddc3b157 20180415 17:58:16< irker473> wesnoth: Celtic Minstrel wesnoth:1.14 42ee12621b95 / data/gui/window/statistics_dialog.cfg: Swap count and name columns in statistics (fixes #2893) https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/42ee12621b95c022b3677331abbcf6d23e54e810 20180415 17:59:16<+discordbot> How is that a swap 20180415 17:59:19<+discordbot> It’s a new column 20180415 17:59:45< celticminstrel> Gyack, what? What happened to the delete!? 20180415 18:00:00<+discordbot> It got deleted 20180415 18:00:04<+discordbot> :p 20180415 18:01:01< celticminstrel> I think it must've been the glitch I sometimes get in VSCode where it things the Ctrl key is down when it's not... 20180415 18:01:03< celticminstrel> ^thinks 20180415 18:02:36< celticminstrel> It actually works fine with the duplicate column, mostly by coincidence. 20180415 18:02:51< celticminstrel> The old column gets left empty by the code. 20180415 18:03:05< celticminstrel> Probably because find_widget finds the new column first and puts the info there. 20180415 18:03:20<+discordbot> Carl key? 20180415 18:03:40< celticminstrel> Holding Ctrl while dragging and dropping duplicates the selection instead of moving it. 20180415 18:03:58<+discordbot> Ah 20180415 18:04:04<+discordbot> Well, please delete the old column 20180415 18:04:38< irker473> wesnoth: Celtic Minstrel wesnoth:master ceea173eb488 / data/gui/window/statistics_dialog.cfg: Remove redundant unused column in stats https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/ceea173eb488cbb124ff15c4ae19fa7fc00708a1 20180415 18:04:42< irker473> wesnoth: Celtic Minstrel wesnoth:1.14 6f47abd47f7c / data/gui/window/statistics_dialog.cfg: Remove redundant unused column in stats https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/6f47abd47f7c2c04d65a5353e59f9e3797d18f3c 20180415 18:23:52-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy] 20180415 18:25:07< celticminstrel> I think the invulnerable status actually prevents the AI from targeting that unit at all. 20180415 18:27:56-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-23-20-242-232.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180415 18:27:57< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#17651 (master - ceea173 : Celtic Minstrel): The build passed. 20180415 18:27:57< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/366854349 20180415 18:27:57-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-23-20-242-232.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has left #wesnoth-dev [] 20180415 18:38:25-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180415 18:41:27-!- grzywacz [~karol@89-70-226-147.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20180415 18:50:22-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy] 20180415 19:07:24<+discordbot> Hey, are you guys still looking for someone to make a game Trailer? 20180415 19:09:03<+discordbot> It’s a bit uncertain right now 20180415 19:09:04<+discordbot> It’s a bit uncertain right now 20180415 19:09:26< irker473> wesnoth/wesnoth:1.14 Nils Kneuper 26cda6bd21 updated Galician translation AppVeyor: All builds passed 20180415 19:09:47-!- gfg [~androirc@46.183.103.8] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180415 19:10:53<+discordbot> Ah, well if it gets decided it's needed hopefully one of y'all in charge will @ me so we can discuss it more. :3 20180415 19:36:28-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180415 19:36:35-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180415 19:39:14< celticminstrel> Would actually be nice to have something like disable_upload=yes in _server.pbl (or the future addons manifest_; if present the addons client refuses the upload the addon. The idea is to protect against uploading experimental stuff by forgetting to git stash first. 20180415 19:39:28< celticminstrel> That underscore should be a parenthesis. :( 20180415 19:40:21<+discordbot> That doesn't sound terribly complicated to me but it also sounds like feature creep. 20180415 19:40:37< vn971> celticminstrel: is it different from commenting out some critical section in it? 20180415 19:40:54< celticminstrel> Uh. Maybe? 20180415 19:41:29<+discordbot> My own workflow for the record is to not have a _server.pbl in the working tree. There's a versioned _server.pbl.in from which it is generated using make, on a different working tree I use for tags. 20180415 19:41:36< vn971> celticminstrel: I'd say intentionally breaking _server.pbl or deleting/renaming it would be the simpler alternative to a yet another key. 20180415 19:42:07< celticminstrel> Maybe. 20180415 19:42:10<+discordbot> The _server.pbl.in does not contain the passphrase, which is taken from a file elsewhere and merged into the _server.pbl by the Makefile target. 20180415 19:42:34< celticminstrel> I don't really like the idea of having to use nmake to release my addon though. 20180415 19:42:44< celticminstrel> ...especially since it's not in %PATH%. 20180415 19:43:04<+discordbot> You can use a simple batch file. :p 20180415 19:43:22< celticminstrel> I suppose. 20180415 19:43:46< celticminstrel> Something like "git stash; wesnoth_addons_manager blah blah blah; git stash pop"? 20180415 19:44:01< vn971> shadowm: same here (well, almost). I've even created a special project/script to do the uploading: https://github.com/vgaming/wesnoth_upload 20180415 19:44:15<+discordbot> If you are using Git you might want to look into using tags and git worktree instead. 20180415 19:44:36<+discordbot> That way you're not only making sure you don't have extraneous changes, but also that you don't have unversioned files. 20180415 19:44:40<+discordbot> @Copen There is one person at least who is definitely working on a trailer: https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&p=625893#p625857 doofus-01 would be the one to ask to get a definite answer, I believe 20180415 19:44:45< vn971> shadowm: and most sections are indeed checked into git. 20180415 19:45:38< celticminstrel> Pretty sure my _server.pbl and [campaign] descriptions are intentionally different. 20180415 19:45:44< celticminstrel> They are certainly different, at least. 20180415 19:45:51<+discordbot> (Although I'll say that since I do not use WAM (yet) my workflow also involves a script to change the working trees that Wesnoth sees: https://pastebin.com/8xrB0ZnR ) 20180415 19:47:19< vn971> celticminstrel: the script in the project I shared makes sure there are no uncommitted changes, refusing to make a release if they are. Also checks Lua code with luacheck, and some other things. It is configurable and uses wesnoth_addons_manager under the hood. 20180415 19:47:45< celticminstrel> I might consider using it if I were developing on Mac. 20180415 19:49:03< celticminstrel> I usually stash rather than committing changes before uploading. 20180415 19:49:19< celticminstrel> Often the changes are only comments or notes. 20180415 19:49:35< celticminstrel> Plus the passcode in _server.pbl. 20180415 19:51:21< vn971> celticminstrel: makes sense. But from another point of view, it's pretty good to have a clear history of what exactly you uploaded under version X.Y.Z. // So my personal script always uploads by tag name. And does not allow uncommitted stuff unless you configure it otherwise. 20180415 19:51:51< celticminstrel> I do tag my releases, though I think I missed a few. 20180415 19:55:00-!- ELBeavers [~beelers@208.99.109.233] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180415 19:55:35<+discordbot> at what point should the 1.14 RC start putting replays into a "1.14" folder at replays.wesnoth.org? 20180415 20:02:24<+discordbot> That'll happen as soon as we actually set up the 1.14 instance. 20180415 20:03:19<+discordbot> Currently it's just the 1.13 instance as always, with a version filter for 1.13.12 and later. 20180415 20:07:08< celticminstrel> mattsc: I removed the "move leader to keep" CA but the assassin MAI still doesn't seem to want to control the side leader? 20180415 20:07:13< celticminstrel> Should I remove the recruit CA too? 20180415 20:07:14-!- gfg [~androirc@46.183.103.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20180415 20:08:12-!- gfg [~androirc@tmo-106-92.customers.d1-online.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180415 20:14:56< zookeeper> gfg, https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=625853#p625853 <- looks like you only removed one [on_redo], not both 20180415 20:17:06< mattsc> celticminstrel: IIRC recruitment should not interfere with the Assassin MAI. 20180415 20:17:50< celticminstrel> Whoooooa :inspect is slow if you have a really large array variable. o.O 20180415 20:18:01< mattsc> It is. 20180415 20:18:32< mattsc> What should happen is the leader recruiting if she’s on the keep, but being controlled by the MAI afterward (with an eval score just higher combat) 20180415 20:18:40< mattsc> higher than combat 20180415 20:19:41< mattsc> Is this for your scenario or something else? (Just asking because yesterday we talked about this in the other channel) 20180415 20:19:51< celticminstrel> Different scenario in the same campaign. 20180415 20:20:00< mattsc> Ok. 20180415 20:20:34< mattsc> I looked through the AS MAI code quickly and there doesn’t seem to be anything in there that would treat the side leader differently than the other units. 20180415 20:20:37< celticminstrel> He's not moving at all, just sitting there on the keep... I don't see any relevant non-default aspects in :inspect, or any CAs that look like they could interfere... 20180415 20:20:52< celticminstrel> So does that mean it has to be a problem with the filter? 20180415 20:21:00< celticminstrel> I'll check that, at least... 20180415 20:21:04< mattsc> Could be. Does it work for other units? 20180415 20:21:23< celticminstrel> The filter is type=Orcish Nightblade [or]canrecruit=yes 20180415 20:21:39< mattsc> Or do you have anything in the scenario that remove MP from the leader? 20180415 20:21:53< celticminstrel> And the nightblades do appear to be moving towards the target... well one of them does. 20180415 20:23:26< mattsc> Hmm. It should really be all of them moving. 20180415 20:23:56< celticminstrel> The other one is moving, it just appears to be taking a more convoluted route (and seems to be ignoring [prefer]). 20180415 20:24:12< celticminstrel> (Though ignoring [prefer] ATM will be required eventually to actually reach the target.) 20180415 20:24:26< celticminstrel> (Because it's x=1-10 and the target is at x=30 or so.) 20180415 20:25:37<+discordbot> I possible found bug in dunefolk unit: 20180415 20:25:40<+discordbot> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/259976436490829825/435173885642670125/unknown.png 20180415 20:26:01<+discordbot> 'odsřelovač' means english 'marksman' 20180415 20:26:05< mattsc> Well, [prefer] is just a preference, other terrain is not entirely avoided, so it’s impossible to say without more detail if that’s a problem. 20180415 20:26:13<+discordbot> but for sword? 20180415 20:26:17<+discordbot> it is weird 20180415 20:26:40<+discordbot> yes, it's weird. but also yes, Dunefolk have swords with marksman. 20180415 20:30:15< celticminstrel> When I enter the filter at the Lua console, {type="Orcish Nightblade", wml.tag["or"]{canrecruit=true}, wml.tag["and"]{side=3}}, it matches both the leader and the nightblades. 20180415 20:30:40< celticminstrel> And yeah it's not clear whether ignoring of [prefer] is a problem or an intentional decision on its part. 20180415 20:31:13< celticminstrel> @hrubymar10 It's weird in English too, so... 20180415 20:31:33< celticminstrel> There's talk of changing the name, but we can't seem to think of a good one. 20180415 20:31:54< celticminstrel> Razhid bin Faih, huh. Nice name. 20180415 20:32:19<+discordbot> and what is the problem? problem is that we don't have ability which describes it best or? 20180415 20:33:35< celticminstrel> Probably easiest to just refer you to the most recent thread on the topic. https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=47656&sid=bd7e60621dade846679063dd9ca33542 20180415 20:33:48< celticminstrel> But basically it's just hard to come up with a good word. 20180415 20:35:37< mattsc> celticminstrel: I don’t think I can help without more information. So you could try to dig into it some more, or send me a save and the new scenario code and I’ll have a look to see if it’s a bug or a setup problem. 20180415 20:36:22< celticminstrel> mattsc: Okay. I think I'll leave it for the time being with just the nightblades moving, but if/when I revisit it later I'll consider giving you that info. 20180415 20:36:35< celticminstrel> (Plus I don't want to burden you with too many things at once.) 20180415 20:37:35< mattsc> celticminstrel: okay; but either way’s fine, no worries 20180415 20:39:16< mattsc> As for the other scenario, I looked at the Messenger AI code and I think that does most of what you want, except that it does not check for enemy threat when moving the messenger. So that should be a “relatively simple” addition. 20180415 20:39:19< Ravana_> Vultraz: any chance of https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/480df6b28ac50e3971856588f2ce4a0b333f9262#commitcomment-28394533 ? or just some way to have font look more like 1.12 https://i.imgur.com/UVAtzTy.png 20180415 20:40:40-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180415 20:43:23< celticminstrel> Has anyone else noticed how useless the unit search feature seems to be? 20180415 20:50:12< celticminstrel> ...well, part of (or maybe even all of?) my assassins problem is that I accidentally deleted the code that made the target unit an anemy. 20180415 20:50:24< celticminstrel> ^enemy 20180415 20:50:53< Ravana_> unit search? 20180415 20:51:04< celticminstrel> Press / while playing a game. 20180415 20:51:16< celticminstrel> (Calling it unit search is slightly misleading, it also finds labels.) 20180415 20:51:20< Ravana_> does nothing on 1.13.14, works on 1.12 20180415 20:51:39< celticminstrel> Huh? It works for me in 1.13.14, just never seems to find anything. 20180415 20:51:50< Ravana_> doesn't open for me 20180415 20:52:57< celticminstrel> Maybe you rebound it to something else? 20180415 20:53:12< celticminstrel> mattsc: Yeah, turns out the problem was that the target unit was not an enemy of the assassin unit... the leader is moving now.. 20180415 20:53:15< Ravana_> preferences says it is / 20180415 20:53:49< mattsc> celticminstrel: Oh, good. I’m gald it was that simple. 20180415 20:54:14< Ravana_> I just accidentally reset all hotkeys 20180415 20:54:27< Ravana_> good I had preferences file open can could paste it all back 20180415 20:54:38-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy] 20180415 20:54:49< mattsc> Hmm, always something new … 20180415 20:55:42< mattsc> Looks like a side with controller=null now creates the leader unit at the beginning of the scenario and puts it on the recall list? 20180415 20:56:01< Ravana_> when I manually add / as hotkey there it looks like https://i.imgur.com/8uAdABm.png 20180415 21:01:12-!- louis94 [~~louis94@91.176.171.238] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180415 21:08:20< gfg> mattsc: is that in mp? 20180415 21:08:39< mattsc> gfg: no, in a campaign 20180415 21:09:06< gfg> and you left type empty? 20180415 21:09:28< mattsc> No, I added a type because otherwise something (I think wmllint) complains. 20180415 21:09:43< mattsc> So, yeah, maybe that’s the difference to how it was. 20180415 21:10:03< mattsc> As in, my scenario, rather than the engine. 20180415 21:11:03< gfg> in a campaign the controller shouldn't effect how the leader is created afaik. so if it is placed on the recall Lissy then that's probably just because the map had no starting position for that side 20180415 21:11:24< mattsc> Right. 20180415 21:11:40< mattsc> Well, previously there was no leader created at all. 20180415 21:11:58< celticminstrel> So yeah, as I thought, it only searches the unit name. Wouldn't it be easier if you could, say, cycle through elves with /elf, for example? I think it should search race, type, maybe a few other things as well. 20180415 21:12:03< mattsc> For reference, I use this to decide which side the player allied with in a previous scenario. 20180415 21:12:14< gfg> Autocorrection... s/lissy/list 20180415 21:12:32< mattsc> Who’s Lissy? ;) 20180415 21:13:22< celticminstrel> Ah, it also only searches allied units... hmm... 20180415 21:13:33< mattsc> I check whether the leader exists on the recall list. So the leader being created us a problem. 20180415 21:13:35< celticminstrel> I guess this isn't something for 1.14, so I'll open an issue. 20180415 21:14:01< gfg> hmm ye just leave the type empty 20180415 21:14:28< mattsc> Right. It’s a bit annoying that wmllint complains about that even though it is perfectly okay to do so. 20180415 21:14:31< gfg> If wmlint complains maybe add no_leader=yes 20180415 21:14:52< gfg> maybe we should change wmlint actually 20180415 21:14:59< mattsc> Can’t do that because I want the leader to be displayed in the stats dialog later. 20180415 21:15:16< mattsc> In any case, the workaround is simple. 20180415 21:15:19< celticminstrel> What we need then is [side]image= 20180415 21:15:38< mattsc> I just create a leader of a type that it cannot possibly be, and then kill all units of that type in the prestart event. 20180415 21:16:05< gfg> Im quitw sure that no_leader has no other effect than silencing wmlint 20180415 21:16:34< mattsc> Hmm. Maybe. I could try that. 20180415 21:17:01< celticminstrel> gfg: Doesn't it also mean the game won't try to create a unit from the contents of the [side] tag? 20180415 21:17:10< gfg> any objections to changing emlint? 20180415 21:17:31< mattsc> gfg: no objections 20180415 21:17:45< gfg> celmin iirc think it doesn't in 1.13 20180415 21:18:19< mattsc> gfg: and you’re right, if I change a unit on a no_leader side to canrecruit=yes, it is displayed in the stats dialog. 20180415 21:19:12< celticminstrel> gfg: So how does the game decide whether or not to create a unit from the contents of [side] if not based on no_leader? 20180415 21:19:37< gfg> Whether type= is set or not 20180415 21:20:10< celticminstrel> Well okay, I guess that... works... 20180415 21:20:32< celticminstrel> So basically that means I can actually just use [leader] for my campaign, right? 20180415 21:20:35< celticminstrel> And it'll Just Work. 20180415 21:20:51< celticminstrel> Maybe need to add side_name or something, I guess. 20180415 21:20:58< gfg> I'd say so 20180415 21:20:58< mattsc> gfg: And the recall list is there too (with no_leader=yes and save_id=…). So that all works as I need it. 20180415 21:20:59< celticminstrel> Or save_id? 20180415 21:21:25< mattsc> That did not always use to be the case … (some of this code dates back to at least 1.9) 20180415 21:22:11< gfg> celmin if you use [leader you also have to use save_id since you moved id= out of [side 20180415 21:22:28< celticminstrel> Do I also need side_name? 20180415 21:22:40< gfg> I think yes 20180415 21:22:43< celticminstrel> Okay. 20180415 21:23:21< celticminstrel> But I don't need save_id for all enemies, right? 20180415 21:23:25< mattsc> I’m not going to check if this all works in 1.12 too though. Too lazy. :P 20180415 21:23:27< celticminstrel> Only for the player and recurring enemies. 20180415 21:23:52< gfg> ofc u can also put name= in side instead of side_name 20180415 21:24:06< celticminstrel> Is there a difference? 20180415 21:24:29< gfg> Probably not if you don't use type= 20180415 21:24:42< celticminstrel> And what I just said about save_id? 20180415 21:25:37< gfg> I'm not sure but i don't think save_id is used for anything else than carryover 20180415 21:29:38-!- gallaecio [~quassel@188.79.96.255] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180415 21:29:42< mattsc> gfg: Do you remember when type= was introduced as checking for whether a side had a leader? 20180415 21:29:51< mattsc> Was that during 1.13, or before? 20180415 21:30:03< gfg> 1.13 20180415 21:30:24< mattsc> Okay. So this likely won’t work for 1.12 then. Rats … 20180415 21:31:14< mattsc> ‘Rats’, because in order to test this, I need to play through 6 scenarios. 20180415 21:31:25-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180415 21:31:30< gfg> No type and no_leader should work on both 1.13 and 1.12 20180415 21:32:26< gfg> The main difference is just that you don't need to write no_leader in 1.13 but of course you can add it anyways to be compatible with 1.12 20180415 21:36:35< ELBeavers> Couldn't find a note about this for macOS X version. High Sierra is now warning about 32-bit apps. Is there a 64-bit version 20180415 21:38:41< mattsc> gfg: okay, sounds good; thanks 20180415 21:39:36-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy] 20180415 21:48:48< celticminstrel> Something should probably be done about the translations that no longer have maintainers, such as German or French... 20180415 21:50:06< celticminstrel> By which I mean, something like putting out a call for new maintainers. 20180415 22:02:42-!- louis94 [~~louis94@91.176.171.238] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 20180415 22:03:44-!- louis94 [~~louis94@91.176.171.238] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180415 22:09:41-!- irker473 [~irker@uruz.ai0867.net] has quit [Quit: transmission timeout] 20180415 22:16:21< ELBeavers> Never mind awesome devs. I see now the latest beta is 64-bit. Thanks for being great! 20180415 22:17:02-!- boucman [~rosen@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180415 22:32:13< celticminstrel> I think there's some merit in going over the core macros and implementing some of them as new WML tags. 20180415 22:32:32< celticminstrel> For example, this one. https://github.com/CelticMinstrel/BlackCrossOfAleron/blob/master/lua/wlp.lua#L81 20180415 22:33:30< celticminstrel> Tangentially, there needs to be a better way to ask the game what labels / image overlays are placed on a given location. 20180415 22:34:24< celticminstrel> In that example [highlight_image] tag, a better image overlays API would utterly negate the need for the background= key. 20180415 22:38:37< gfg> Well scatter_units was already simplified quite a bit with [random_placement 20180415 22:39:30< gfg> The limit recruit and force chance to hot macros are still to long though i think, would be nice if they could be improved by Lua 20180415 22:41:43-!- louis94 [~~louis94@91.176.171.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20180415 22:42:57-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20180415 23:14:39< celticminstrel> Still mildly annoyed that random_placement takes [command] instead of [do] like all the other loops though. 20180415 23:15:28< celticminstrel> gfg: The example I was pointing to in that file was only [highlight_image], not [scatter_units] or [nearest_unit] or any of the native tag overrides. 20180415 23:18:44< gfg> I probably copied the king wrongly to point to line 8 20180415 23:18:52< gfg> Link* 20180415 23:19:44< celticminstrel> Eventually I'll probably replace [scatter_units] with [random_placement] though. 20180415 23:19:55< celticminstrel> There are also a couple of other places where I could use [random_placement] now. 20180415 23:20:02-!- boucman [~rosen@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180415 23:20:40< celticminstrel> Should I add [filter_location] to [unit]? 20180415 23:20:53< celticminstrel> (Possibly under a different name.) 20180415 23:24:35-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180415 23:41:29-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180415 23:47:49< celticminstrel> {RECRUIT_UNIT_VARIATIONS} kinda needs more first-class support IMO. 20180415 23:48:17< celticminstrel> At least, the AI should be aware that the unit they recruit may not be the base variation. 20180415 23:48:49< celticminstrel> Maybe a new AI aspect? --- Log closed Mon Apr 16 00:00:44 2018