--- Log opened Thu Apr 26 00:00:06 2018 --- Day changed Thu Apr 26 2018 20180426 00:00:06< zookeeper> tagsy time! 20180426 00:00:12< zookeeper> or maybe not, then. 20180426 00:00:15<+discordbot1> not so fast 😛 20180426 00:00:28 * celmin|sleep piles all the tags on Vultraz. 20180426 00:01:13-!- celmin|sleep is now known as celticminstrel 20180426 00:02:12<+discordbot1> If loonycyborg disappeared without warning you then shame on him. 20180426 00:02:27<+discordbot1> it's 1 am so I'm not surprised 20180426 00:02:28<+discordbot1> I can do the pot-update stuff if he doesn't respond within the next hour. 20180426 00:02:33<+discordbot1> (for him) 20180426 00:02:55<+discordbot1> Also @sevu is there a specific reason you want to wait until after 1.14.0 is tagged? 20180426 00:03:07< loonycyborg> I'm here 20180426 00:03:14< loonycyborg> just need to wrap up one thing 20180426 00:03:22< loonycyborg> and sevu too it seems 20180426 00:03:24<+discordbot1> ah! 20180426 00:04:23<+discordbot1> kinda... If it's not in the english manpage will be used instead 20180426 00:04:51<+discordbot1> But if we know the fix then why not commit it? 20180426 00:05:53<+discordbot1> takes me an hour to fix the file properly... well, I had to recompile, should have it fixed in 2 min 20180426 00:06:08<+discordbot1> Should I do it then? 20180426 00:06:27<+discordbot1> Building takes me 8 minutes tops and I know how to rebuild the manpages alone. 20180426 00:06:56<+discordbot1> I don't know why I'm even asking. ¯_(ツ)_/¯ 20180426 00:06:57<+discordbot1> rebild is just done 20180426 00:08:09<+discordbot1> is very confused 20180426 00:08:17< irker220> wesnoth: Matthias Krüger wesnoth:master 29089a47369c / CMakeLists.txt SConstruct: cmake/scons: if sanitizers are enabled, also add -fno-omit-frame-pointer and -fn https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/29089a47369c32d4eabb93ac7f5b33222c047670 20180426 00:08:53< zookeeper> all good? can i go sleep? :p 20180426 00:08:58<+discordbot1> yes 20180426 00:08:59< irker220> wesnoth: Severin Glöckner wesnoth:1.14 f35f7f50efd5 / po/wesnoth-manpages/de.po: restore fixed German manpage https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/f35f7f50efd51d6c467e100be410f2ca67346531 20180426 00:09:00<+discordbot1> thanks 20180426 00:09:07<+discordbot1> for doing the utbs 20180426 00:10:11<+discordbot1> and sevu for all this misc stuff 20180426 00:10:11<+discordbot1> @shadowm @loonycyborg Done, can you run the pot an po4a updates 20180426 00:10:14< zookeeper> awesome 20180426 00:11:15< celticminstrel> So when will the packages be uploaded to Sourceforge? I know the announcement isn't for another week, so are you planning to leave the upload until then or will it go up early? 20180426 00:11:22<+discordbot1> Immediately. 20180426 00:11:23<+discordbot1> immediately 20180426 00:11:42< celticminstrel> Yay. 20180426 00:12:10<+discordbot1> That doesn't sound very excited. :p 20180426 00:12:15<+discordbot1> It's 1.14.0. 20180426 00:12:17< celticminstrel> :P 20180426 00:12:38<+discordbot1> Think about the road that led us here. 20180426 00:12:46<+discordbot1> Where did we go wrong 20180426 00:12:53< celticminstrel> ? 20180426 00:12:59<+discordbot1> Exactly. 20180426 00:13:18<+discordbot1> That is the right reaction to have to everything that's happened since 1.12.0. 20180426 00:13:35<+discordbot1> indeed 20180426 00:14:35<+discordbot1> waits 20180426 00:15:53< celticminstrel> Whyyyy lock the thread... :| 20180426 00:16:07<+discordbot1> To shut up wussle 20180426 00:16:39<+discordbot1> facepalm 20180426 00:16:47<+discordbot1> Vultraz, unlock it and move it to Art Development. 20180426 00:16:56<+discordbot1> And maybe weigh in in that thread I posted yesterday. 20180426 00:17:04<+discordbot1> more broadly, to avoid extraneous after-the-fact nitpicking from the peanut gallery 20180426 00:18:23<+discordbot1> ok, it's now unlocked in AD 20180426 00:18:47< celticminstrel> Who can post in AD? 20180426 00:19:14<+discordbot1> Art Contributors. 20180426 00:19:20<+discordbot1> @Vultraz This commit you made to exclude languages 20180426 00:19:26<+discordbot1> Developers. And everyone with some kind of staff role. 20180426 00:19:29<+discordbot1> @sevu what? 20180426 00:19:30<+discordbot1> can you rerun it 20180426 00:19:37<+discordbot1> to inculde German 20180426 00:19:41<+discordbot1> uhhh... 20180426 00:19:48<+discordbot1> there's nothing to re-run 20180426 00:20:01<+discordbot1> it's based on the completion metric listed for the languages 20180426 00:20:09<+discordbot1> which is regenerated with the pot update 20180426 00:20:15<+discordbot1> or somewhere thereabouts 20180426 00:21:16<+discordbot1> if german now meets the 80% core completion barrier, let me know 20180426 00:21:40<+discordbot1> or, well, I can see after the thing is run 20180426 00:22:39< celticminstrel> Did French make it? I'm guessing not since I haven't seen any French contributions (other than the PRs quite awhile ago). 20180426 00:22:43<+discordbot1> yes 20180426 00:22:59< celticminstrel> Oh, it did? Were there some French contributions that I just didn't notice? 20180426 00:23:08<+discordbot1> German was the only one of the "main" languages that didn't 20180426 00:23:23<+discordbot1> (in terms of core) 20180426 00:23:27< celticminstrel> Or maybe French managed to be 80% just from old strings. 20180426 00:23:30<+discordbot1> hmmm how does this work. German had ~85% the last days, but one textdomain was at 0 20180426 00:23:48<+discordbot1> the completion percentage excludes campaign textdomains 20180426 00:23:48< celticminstrel> @sevu I think it only considers certain textdomains? 20180426 00:24:02< celticminstrel> Probably wesnoth, wesnoth-units, wesnoth-lib... not sure what else. 20180426 00:24:04<+discordbot1> we consider those separately for the purpose of the steam page 20180426 00:24:08<+discordbot1> (as subtitles) 20180426 00:24:16< celticminstrel> ??? 20180426 00:24:27-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20180426 00:24:41<+discordbot1> for the Steam page we have to select what languages we support 20180426 00:24:55<+discordbot1> the categories for each are Interface, Full Audio, and Subtitles 20180426 00:25:11<+discordbot1> I'm considering the core textdomains "Interface" and the campaign textdomains "Subtitles" 20180426 00:25:24< celticminstrel> Ah. 20180426 00:25:24<+discordbot1> German made the latter 20180426 00:25:26<+discordbot1> but not the former 20180426 00:25:37< celticminstrel> But which textdomains are core? 20180426 00:25:57<+discordbot1> everything except campaign 20180426 00:25:58<+discordbot1> s 20180426 00:25:59< celticminstrel> ...wait, German made subtitles but not interface? 20180426 00:26:04<+discordbot1> yes 20180426 00:26:06< celticminstrel> Is wesnoth-tutorial core? 20180426 00:26:49<+discordbot1> Probably not since it's a campaign. 20180426 00:26:58<+discordbot1> And yes, I know that sounds weird. 20180426 00:27:03< celticminstrel> I wouldn't really consider it a campaign though. 20180426 00:27:13<+discordbot1> It is a campaign. :p 20180426 00:27:19<+discordbot1> wesnoth-anl is core 20180426 00:27:22<+discordbot1> ¯_(ツ)_/¯ 20180426 00:27:24<+discordbot1> It's just the only one that's (sometimes) essential. 20180426 00:27:51< celticminstrel> It doesn't have a [campaign] tag or [scenario] tags, so... 20180426 00:27:53<+discordbot1> Actually, gettext.w.o counts it as core. 20180426 00:27:56<+discordbot1> Both of them. 20180426 00:28:04<+discordbot1> ya know I just came to the rather depressing conclusion that the Naga Hunter has no lines 😐 20180426 00:28:09<+discordbot1> Does the stats check in the game code do it? 20180426 00:28:28< celticminstrel> @Vultraz Are you sure of that? 20180426 00:28:35<+discordbot1> i think so 20180426 00:28:40< celticminstrel> There are often lines that are spoken by the current unit. 20180426 00:28:42<+discordbot1> Hmmm. 20180426 00:28:47< celticminstrel> The naga hunter could fill that role. 20180426 00:28:58<+discordbot1> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/259976436490829825/438858995449593856/unknown.png 20180426 00:29:20< celticminstrel> o.o 20180426 00:29:22<+discordbot1> I reckon this is caused by gettext.w.o catching the repository update between the removal and the reappearance of de.po. 20180426 00:29:45<+discordbot1> gaaah 20180426 00:29:58< celticminstrel> @Vultraz Basically I'm saying that any message with speaker=unit (or even speaker=second_unit) in a scenario where the hunter exists, is a line that could be spoken by the hunter. 20180426 00:29:59<+discordbot1> Gah? 20180426 00:30:03<+discordbot1> i know 20180426 00:30:06<+discordbot1> but i didn't see any 20180426 00:31:20<+discordbot1> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/259976436490829825/438859591368048660/unknown.png 20180426 00:31:32< celticminstrel> I see a ton of speaker=unit in UtBS (admittedly an old copy). What scenario does the hunter first appear in? 20180426 00:31:51<+discordbot1> 11 only 20180426 00:31:55<+discordbot1> In case there was any doubt about me saying to not fix translations by deleting them.- 20180426 00:32:11<+discordbot1> It's cause by the broken, it's not empty 20180426 00:32:28< celticminstrel> ...seriously? 20180426 00:32:35< celticminstrel> Still, there are some speaker=unit cases in 11... 20180426 00:32:44< celticminstrel> Four of them, to be precise. 20180426 00:32:50< celticminstrel> Dunno if they could go to the naga though. 20180426 00:32:52<+discordbot1> @sevu ? 20180426 00:33:23<+discordbot1> nope 20180426 00:33:25<+discordbot1> nothing to the naga 20180426 00:33:58< celticminstrel> I guess the naga isn't a side 1 unit? 20180426 00:34:05<+discordbot1> it's an enemy recruit 20180426 00:34:15<+discordbot1> nevermind, I forgot that the links point to the current files 20180426 00:34:47< celticminstrel> I guess Kelur is also an enemy. 20180426 00:35:07<+discordbot1> I just forcefully refreshed the primary repository clones on wesnoth.org (they're normally refreshed at the beginning of every hour) and re-ran the g.w.o rebuild. 20180426 00:35:07< celticminstrel> Okay yeah, so the hunter has no lines, I guess. 20180426 00:35:08<+discordbot1> we can give the naga some lines when we redo the utbs scenarios 20180426 00:35:11-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180426 00:35:13<+discordbot1> So the stats are back to normal now. 20180426 00:35:15< celticminstrel> Still, it's not useless to include the portrait. 20180426 00:35:25< celticminstrel> It'll be used by other people who take the naga for their own stuff. 20180426 00:35:28<+discordbot1> this is only phase 1 of the utbs revamp 20180426 00:35:45< celticminstrel> And certainly you could add some lines that are potentially or definitely spoken by the naga hunter. 20180426 00:35:47<+discordbot1> tbh we should probably just make the naga hunter core 20180426 00:35:48<+discordbot1> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/259976436490829825/438860715680464906/unknown.png 20180426 00:36:06< celticminstrel> Yes, we should make the naga hunter core. Especially now that it has a nice sprite and portrait. 20180426 00:36:08<+discordbot1> @shadowm core only? 20180426 00:36:12< celticminstrel> ...I assume it does have a nice sprite now, right? 20180426 00:36:14<+discordbot1> No, overall. 20180426 00:36:33<+discordbot1> it's always had a fine sprite? 20180426 00:36:43< celticminstrel> Maybe I'm thinking of Naga Warden? 20180426 00:37:09< celticminstrel> I definitely remember a naga in one of the campaigns with a terrible sprite. 20180426 00:37:17<+discordbot1> no idea 20180426 00:37:26<+discordbot1> You must be thinking of a much older version. 20180426 00:37:41< celticminstrel> I could be thinking of 1.12 or even 1.19=0. 20180426 00:37:42< celticminstrel> ... 20180426 00:37:44< celticminstrel> 1.10 20180426 00:37:56<+discordbot1> 99.73% for german in core 20180426 00:38:16<+discordbot1> adds 20180426 00:38:59<+discordbot1> And we still don't have metadata for Steam in German. :p 20180426 00:39:26<+discordbot1> Can reread that later 20180426 00:39:35<+discordbot1> is someone running the stuff? 20180426 00:39:39<+discordbot1> Who is the maintainer? 20180426 00:39:46<+discordbot1> the pot? 20180426 00:39:48< celticminstrel> But yeah the UtBS nagas should be moved to core IMO. 20180426 00:39:55<+discordbot1> Running the pot? 20180426 00:40:07<+discordbot1> loonycyborg said he was waiting for sevu to sort out his stuff. 20180426 00:40:08< celticminstrel> And the Great Ogre too. 20180426 00:40:14<+discordbot1> sevu said he sorted his stuff 20180426 00:40:23<+discordbot1> So he did, according to Git. 20180426 00:40:29<+discordbot1> running atm 20180426 00:40:38<+discordbot1> Oh sevu is the German translation maintainer. 20180426 00:42:32< celticminstrel> Maybe the merman citizen and brawler too? I dunno. 20180426 00:42:43<+discordbot1> who knows! 20180426 00:42:56<+discordbot1> There was no German translation team anymore, somehow disappeared all in the last 5 years. May be a side effect of having seldom big releases. 20180426 00:43:00< celticminstrel> And Wose Shaman is used by two campaigns IIRC, so moving to core would reduce duplication. 20180426 00:43:36< irker220> wesnoth: loonycyborg wesnoth:1.14 6fe9b603cf20 / / (1463 files in 32 dirs): pot-update and regenerate doc files https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/6fe9b603cf2098092d545449cdf894dcae52f45c 20180426 00:43:39<+discordbot1> This is the part where I pull out a knife and stab Vultraz in the back and tag 1.14.0 in his stead. 20180426 00:43:40<+discordbot1> there we go 20180426 00:43:41< celticminstrel> Death squire! 20180426 00:44:17< celticminstrel> The orcish shamans really bug me. 20180426 00:44:41<+discordbot1> This is the part when I go to sleep because I'm too sleepy 20180426 00:44:44< celticminstrel> Oh there's also a wose sapling. 20180426 00:45:17< celticminstrel> I guess I was wrong about wose shaman appearing in two campaigns though. Ah well. 20180426 00:45:34< celticminstrel> But yeah there's my list of campaign units that I wish were core. :P 20180426 00:46:13< celticminstrel> ...mind you I was looking at 1.12 there, so I might've also missed something. 20180426 00:46:16<+discordbot1> there's the dwarvish miner whichis quite popular, we would just need to find common sense if the has 4 or 5 MP 20180426 00:46:36<+discordbot1> (I can't type anymore) 20180426 00:46:40< celticminstrel> IMO the dwarvish miner is quite specific to that one campaign, so I wouldn't support it being moved to core. 20180426 00:47:02< celticminstrel> I didn't mention the witness line for a similar reason. 20180426 00:47:04<+discordbot1> I mean, it wouldn't be the first noncombatant in core. 20180426 00:47:06< celticminstrel> Nor the merman king. 20180426 00:47:14<+discordbot1> he's in sota too, and the campaign logic which the other one does actually not harm 20180426 00:47:24< celticminstrel> Ah, he's in sota too? 20180426 00:47:26< celticminstrel> Hmm. 20180426 00:47:43< celticminstrel> Well, maybe then. 20180426 00:48:42< celticminstrel> The elder mage and elvish lady probably shouldn't be core actually; unfortunate that we can't change that. 20180426 00:48:44<+discordbot1> building one last time, then tagging 20180426 00:48:58<+discordbot1> The Elvish Lady is probably used by UMC so. 20180426 00:49:16<+discordbot1> she has no attack 20180426 00:49:28<+discordbot1> I don't remember exactly how the Elder Mage found its way to core but it probably involved someone being pushy. 20180426 00:49:41<+discordbot1> Yes we know she's a non-combatant. 20180426 00:49:56<+discordbot1> That's why I personally use the Sylph instead. 20180426 00:49:58< celticminstrel> Yeah, I just said we can't change it. 20180426 00:51:07< celticminstrel> I mean, I suppose you could go through a deprecation cycle to move them into HTTT, but... 20180426 00:51:14< celticminstrel> I imagine people wouldn't like it much. 20180426 00:51:18<+discordbot1> many people will bitch 20180426 00:51:46<+discordbot1> There's nothing that says that non-combatants can't be in core. 20180426 00:52:00<+discordbot1> anyway 20180426 00:52:12<+discordbot1> utbs still has a long way to go to be the best campaign it can be 20180426 00:52:20< celticminstrel> My objection to the lady is the same as my objection to the mage or the merman king - AFAIK it's really intended to represent a specific character, not a generic unit. 20180426 00:52:57< celticminstrel> You could probably make a similar argument about the elvish lord actually, but that one's not as clear-cut. 20180426 00:53:10<+discordbot1> we need to clean up the maps 20180426 00:53:11<+discordbot1> the prose 20180426 00:53:22<+discordbot1> If only people applied that logic before using my sprites. :p 20180426 00:53:25<+discordbot1> add story images 20180426 00:53:55<+discordbot1> (though these will be different from what we have in trow0 20180426 00:54:04< celticminstrel> Well duh. 20180426 00:54:39<+discordbot1> I still wish IftU and/or AtS could be mainlined, if only to complete the trilogy. But, I know it cannot be. 20180426 00:54:49< celticminstrel> ... 20180426 00:55:02< celticminstrel> Why can't it be? 20180426 00:55:13< celticminstrel> I assume there must be an actual reason. 20180426 00:55:22<+discordbot1> I seem to recall shadowm said it would cause problems in the future if she decides to expand the IP. 20180426 00:55:38< celticminstrel> Oh so basically it can't be because shadowm doesn't want it to be? 20180426 00:55:40<+discordbot1> Also she wants to retain creative control over the property. 20180426 00:56:06<+discordbot1> Also on the practical side those campaigns are so absolutely massive I don't know if we could maintain them properly 😬 20180426 00:56:16< celticminstrel> ...wait what? 20180426 00:56:25 * celticminstrel <-- hasn't played either of them 20180426 00:56:41<+discordbot1> IftU totals around 24 scenarios and AtS around 36 20180426 00:57:03< celticminstrel> IIRC that's not too different from HTTT? 20180426 00:57:29<+discordbot1> except these are extremely complex 20180426 00:57:33<+discordbot1> code-wise 20180426 00:57:48<+discordbot1> HTTT is simple 20180426 00:57:49<+discordbot1> IftU has 40 technical scenarios presented as 24. 20180426 00:57:56< celticminstrel> o.o 20180426 00:58:12<+discordbot1> the maintenance burden would be... immense 20180426 00:58:31<+discordbot1> AtS has 55 technical scenarios presented as 3 episodes of 13 scenarios each. 20180426 00:59:03<+discordbot1> OTHO, it would kinda force us to maintain them 20180426 00:59:12<+discordbot1> and ensure they're saved for the bus factor 20180426 00:59:19<+discordbot1> ... 20180426 00:59:20<+discordbot1> from 20180426 00:59:36< celticminstrel> They're already saved from the bus factor as soon as she uploads them to the addon server. 20180426 01:00:01<+discordbot1> she has yet to find the time to do the requisite playthrough needed to make sure we didn't break everything 20180426 01:00:25<+discordbot1> campaigns can never be ported straight between stable versions 20180426 01:00:28<+discordbot1> you know that 20180426 01:00:34< celticminstrel> That has nothing to do with this? 20180426 01:00:56<+discordbot1> Uh. Yes it does? 20180426 01:01:02< celticminstrel> I imagine we did break a few things, considering how I uncovered some bugs when working on my own campaign. 20180426 01:01:04<+discordbot1> If she doesn't upload to the 1.14 addon server they remain 1.12 only 20180426 01:01:15< celticminstrel> Well, true. 20180426 01:01:19<+discordbot1> Anyone can take them up and maintain them right now if I get hit by a bus because of the GNU GPL. 20180426 01:01:25< celticminstrel> Yeah, exactly. 20180426 01:01:27<+discordbot1> I've said I don't want that to happen though. 20180426 01:02:00<+discordbot1> I think people in open source underestimate how personal certain kind of content can become to people when it becomes more than just code. 20180426 01:02:10< celticminstrel> If someone were to upload another person's addon without permission, preventing the creator from uploading it, would it get removed? 20180426 01:02:21<+discordbot1> probably 20180426 01:02:53<+discordbot1> Only if the creator can communicate to us their intention to upload it I guess. 20180426 01:03:21<+discordbot1> Because it wouldn't be in violation of the license. 20180426 01:06:55<+discordbot1> the problem of maintenance here reveals a fundamental problem with wesnoth 20180426 01:07:18<+discordbot1> the highest quality stories are most suited for a single, one-main-release-and-done type of game 20180426 01:07:51<+discordbot1> whereas in order to have a continuous rolling target AND a large number of campaigns, we need to sacrifice detail and complexity 20180426 01:08:20<+discordbot1> ie, even if we polish UtBS to the utmost, that still means 16 other campaigns not nearly as polished 20180426 01:08:23<+discordbot1> you see 20180426 01:12:57< irker220> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:1.14 f5fd48dafd78 / / (5 files in 3 dirs): Pre-release version bump https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/f5fd48dafd78afa710afb8758547f8e4f6ce0bcd 20180426 01:13:00< irker220> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:1.14 fbc20dc11610 / Doxyfile changelog.md players_changelog.md src/wesconfig.h: Post-release version bump https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/fbc20dc1161044657be99fbc861552de930b4763 20180426 01:13:04< irker220> wesnoth: Vultraz wesnoth: f5fd48dafd78 tagged as 1.14.0 20180426 01:13:06< celticminstrel> \o/ 20180426 01:13:23<+discordbot1> My primary issue with my campaigns being added to mainline is that I already know from past history that I cannot trust the mainline team to not change them against my will. I mean, come on, people just did huge changes to UtBS without ever asking its original author (mostly because he left). 20180426 01:14:05<+discordbot1> Technically the same was done to AOI, Two Brothers, and to a lesser extent DiD. 20180426 01:14:05<+discordbot1> @Packagers 1.14.0 is tagged 20180426 01:14:40<+discordbot1> (DiD's changes only amount to giving it a definite location in Wesnoth's timeline and geography though.) 20180426 01:14:59<+discordbot1> Certainly as long as I was around I would guarantee no one edited their stories 20180426 01:15:17<+discordbot1> E S R I am not 20180426 01:15:47<+discordbot1> I oversaw the process of mainlining Legend of Wesmere and Delfador's Memoirs and know all about the extensive changes that were done to them both, although in both cases the authors were involved. 20180426 01:16:01< celticminstrel> What does he have to do with this? 20180426 01:16:08<+discordbot1> IftU technically was in the mainline queue after Delfador's Memoirs as well. 20180426 01:16:29<+discordbot1> ESR was in charge of redoing IftU's prose to bring it up to mainline standards. 20180426 01:17:11<+discordbot1> I'm more referring to the fact that he was apparently behind many mainline changes 20180426 01:17:17<+discordbot1> That was all a major mistake that fortunately didn't go much further than that, and the silver lining is that I got portraits in the process (although I still feel like kitty was essentially scammed by that deal). 20180426 01:17:35<+discordbot1> you're still missing hekuba tho 20180426 01:19:50<+discordbot1> After version 2.0 IftU is much more reliant on AtS than it used to be, and AtS brings up certain plot elements that I know have not been very well received and would severely upset the mainline canon by making certain assumed truths untrue. 20180426 01:19:50<+discordbot1> the thing about both of these is they aren't actually in need of any edits to bring the in line with mainline standards. Their text has already gone through multiple revisions by myself, numbers-san, and others. And yourself after improving greatly as an ESL speaker. It's mainline-quality. Better than in most places. The story is perfectly in line with the lore and builds on an established mainline campaign. There's really 20180426 01:19:51<+discordbot1> nothing one would need to change. 20180426 01:20:18< celticminstrel> Assumed truths? 20180426 01:20:31<+discordbot1> It'd just take one or two mainline devs with a plan to take all that apart and reshape it into whatever their vision for the mainline universe is. 20180426 01:20:54<+discordbot1> And I don't want to give those hypothetical people that may or may not ever become devs in the first place that chance. 20180426 01:21:02<+discordbot1> Well 20180426 01:21:24<+discordbot1> You must consider that the fact that our lore is not very deep contributes to the one's ability to do that 20180426 01:21:37<+discordbot1> That's kind of the point. 20180426 01:21:39<+discordbot1> by establishing deeper lore, you make that much harder 20180426 01:21:44< celticminstrel> I'm curious what are these assumed truths that it overturns. 20180426 01:21:48<+discordbot1> I want deeper lore 20180426 01:21:51<+discordbot1> Everyone has their own idea about how Wesnoth's universe should work. 20180426 01:21:57<+discordbot1> Everyone else has deep lore 20180426 01:22:00<+discordbot1> One obvious offender is the Ruby of Fire. 20180426 01:22:02<+discordbot1> other games, that is 20180426 01:22:39<+discordbot1> I think zookeeper (and someone else I think) had his own vague idea of the Ruby of Fire's origin for mainline but I had my own and that became a major plot element in AtS. 20180426 01:22:56<+discordbot1> I did consult with zookeeper and others before writing it in and they didn't approve. 20180426 01:23:19<+discordbot1> I went and did it anyway (after a long hiatus) because I decided it was my campaign, not the mainline devs'. 20180426 01:23:31< celticminstrel> Not true, Vultraz. 20180426 01:23:37< celticminstrel> Plenty of games don't have deep lore. 20180426 01:23:38<+discordbot1> zookeeper didn't even remove the mentions of "horses" from UtBS 20180426 01:23:51<+discordbot1> do you really think he'd tackle IftU and AtS 20180426 01:24:52<+discordbot1> celmin: elder scrolls has deep lore 20180426 01:24:56<+discordbot1> Also, you'll note that the mainline team has always been adamant about being as vague as possible about Wesnoth's mythology ("Lords of Light", etc.) 20180426 01:25:03< celticminstrel> That's a poor example. 20180426 01:25:19<+discordbot1> I would like us to establish a mythology 20180426 01:25:25< celticminstrel> It's not even remotely a similar type of game. 20180426 01:26:10< celticminstrel> A better example would be... maybe Heroes of Might and Magic? I dunno what level of lore that has though. 20180426 01:26:11<+discordbot1> I suppose I don't help my case here, but I don't particularly care about past decisions to keep stuff vague. It makes for a less enjoyable experience 20180426 01:26:28< celticminstrel> I don't think I can agree there TBH. 20180426 01:26:37<+discordbot1> Ironically the devs have kept stuff vague precisely so people like me could do what I did. 20180426 01:26:49<+discordbot1> That's not to say vagueness is always bad 20180426 01:26:49< celticminstrel> I think the game can be plenty enjoyable without any lore whatsoever. 20180426 01:26:54<+discordbot1> Dota 2 for example 20180426 01:26:59<+discordbot1> has a lot of lore but most isn't evident 20180426 01:27:09< celticminstrel> In fact, many people probably never learn any of the Wesnoth lore because they only play multiplayer. 20180426 01:27:12<+discordbot1> Dota 2's lore is inconsequential to the game. 20180426 01:27:19<+discordbot1> Exactly. 20180426 01:27:23< celticminstrel> So is Wesnoth's. 20180426 01:27:35<+discordbot1> Except Wesnoth is very heavy on solo content as well. 20180426 01:27:35< celticminstrel> Unless you're playing a campaign. 20180426 01:27:42<+discordbot1> And that is very obviously story-based. 20180426 01:27:47< celticminstrel> Right. 20180426 01:27:48<+discordbot1> The way I see it 20180426 01:27:51<+discordbot1> That's where the Dota 2 and Wesnoth parallels fall apart. 20180426 01:28:20< celticminstrel> It could probably manage to get by with less lore in the campaigns, though. Not that it should, I think more lore is good for the campaigns. 20180426 01:28:45<+discordbot1> Are we telling stories and have gameplay to facilitate the telling of said stories, or do we have gameplay and use the stories to provide background for the gameplay 20180426 01:28:56<+discordbot1> I want us to tell stories 20180426 01:29:33<+discordbot1> In that sense I've been criticized to death for adhering to vanilla gameplay in my campaigns. 20180426 01:29:45<+discordbot1> You don't 20180426 01:29:47<+discordbot1> 😐 20180426 01:29:54<+discordbot1> Well, before AtS E3. 20180426 01:30:01<+discordbot1> I went nuts there on purpose. 20180426 01:31:56<+discordbot1> In a way the whole episode is built upon me reacting all the criticism I've received about the campaigns' gameplay. 20180426 01:52:29<+discordbot1> @Vultraz Update the chat description here and the IRC topic to remind people that a hard string and feature freeze on 1.14 is in effect until 1.14.0 is officially announced, please. 20180426 02:16:49-!- syrma[m] [syrmamatri@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-ukgrljefprdkommo] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20180426 02:17:08-!- madmax28 [madmax28ma@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-rnstvrtnvtjdezss] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20180426 02:17:09-!- ChipmunkV[m] [chipmunkvm@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-brcxfwgiwjxijtvc] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20180426 02:17:44-!- Kawa[m] [kawamatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-hxsysdzhymwebwau] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20180426 02:21:28< irker220> wesnoth/wesnoth:1.14 Charles Dang 593115e9af UtBS: removed existing story images AppVeyor: All builds passed 20180426 02:50:42-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-54-92-168-171.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180426 02:50:43< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#17821 (1.14.0 - f5fd48d : Charles Dang): The build passed. 20180426 02:50:43< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/371344665 20180426 02:50:43-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-54-92-168-171.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has left #wesnoth-dev [] 20180426 04:13:16-!- celticminstrel is now known as celmin|sleep 20180426 04:29:23<+discordbot1> did the text in UtBS get changed 20180426 04:34:43<+discordbot1> Which text do you mean? 20180426 04:34:53<+discordbot1> everything 20180426 04:35:15<+discordbot1> erm, mostly dialogue/story text 20180426 04:35:35<+discordbot1> my brain is off, I'm quite sure it's been changed 20180426 04:36:18<+discordbot1> You'd be surprised: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/issues/2854 20180426 04:37:04<+discordbot1> I was wondering, since the style seems a little different in some areas 20180426 04:37:14<+discordbot1> writing-wise 20180426 04:38:09<+discordbot1> NR and UtBS are the two campaigns with the most text changes in %, httt has quite some too (and SotA ofc) 20180426 04:38:48<+discordbot1> my question mostly is, is one person writing the changes, or is it all the devs 20180426 04:40:37<+discordbot1> There's nobody working on it besides the devs - though I think it would be welcome if someone did 20180426 04:41:17<+discordbot1> Are there going to be any more updates on the units in UtBS? 20180426 04:42:09<+discordbot1> Depends on what you expect. Smaller changes will be (e.g. see the link above) 20180426 04:42:25<+discordbot1> Okay 20180426 04:43:07<+discordbot1> hmm, something about the new writing for UtBS seems a bit off 20180426 04:43:12<+discordbot1> not sure what it is 20180426 04:44:05<+discordbot1> there are a lot of missing commas for sure 20180426 04:49:26<+discordbot1> I guess it's that the dialogue sounds like narration to me 20180426 04:59:33<+discordbot1> If you want to propose changes, I think it's the best to make a Pull Request for it. Improving the prose is a good thing. 20180426 05:00:02<+discordbot1> unfortunately, if I'm the one writing it, it's going to get completely rewritten 20180426 05:00:44<+discordbot1> I never think it's a good idea for more than one (at most a couple) person to be writing a story 20180426 05:00:54<+discordbot1> because it turns out funky stylistically 20180426 05:01:25<+discordbot1> I'm not sure how much that will be apreciated, but you can discuss it. I myself didn't play utbs. 20180426 05:02:19<+discordbot1> I know, having seen how updating these campaigns work, it seems like there's going to be a ton of discussion about most changes 20180426 05:02:30<+discordbot1> let alone someone coming in and rewriting the whole thing 20180426 05:03:04<+discordbot1> There is (or was?) also someone working on writing unit descriptions for the quenoth: https://r.wesnoth.org/t47996 20180426 05:03:08<+discordbot1> it's just a bit disappointing to me because the writing is honestly a little awkward right now 20180426 05:10:48-!- gallaecio [~quassel@188.79.96.255] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180426 05:12:25-!- boucman [~rosen@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180426 05:20:42-!- discordbot1 is now known as discordbot 20180426 05:24:09<+discordbot> @mattsc Updating Lua to 5.3.4 didn't help 8( wml-tags.lua:92 ... nil field value (field atan2) 20180426 05:25:35<+discordbot> I wonder if there could be another math table there?.. Or atan2 is included conditionally?.. 20180426 05:26:07<+discordbot> or... wait. 20180426 05:26:10-!- irker220 [~irker@uruz.ai0867.net] has quit [Quit: transmission timeout] 20180426 05:49:12-!- gallaecio [~quassel@188.79.96.255] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180426 06:19:07<+discordbot> @Yumi significant UtBS prose/story/map design updates are planned for 1.15/1.16 20180426 06:19:49-!- irker050 [~irker@uruz.ai0867.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180426 06:19:49< irker050> wesnoth/wesnoth:master Matthias Krüger 29089a4736 cmake/scons: if sanitizers are enabled, AppVeyor: All builds passed 20180426 06:20:29<+discordbot> that's good 20180426 06:20:52<+discordbot> design-wise it's actually fairly decent, hopefully the writing gets sorted out 20180426 06:21:12-!- gallaecio [~quassel@164.red-79-153-178.dynamicip.rima-tde.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180426 06:40:44<+discordbot> Description updated 20180426 06:42:59<+discordbot> @hrubymar10 let me know when you have the packages up 20180426 06:43:16<+discordbot> I have them prepared already. Testing right now 20180426 06:43:17<+discordbot> on steam/sourceforce 20180426 06:43:18<+discordbot> ... 20180426 06:43:19<+discordbot> FORGE 20180426 06:43:24<+discordbot> 😄 20180426 06:43:24<+discordbot> I cannot type 20180426 06:44:42<+discordbot> and on SF, where should I upload it? 20180426 06:44:50<+discordbot> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/259976436490829825/438953586047713280/unknown.png 20180426 06:45:00<+discordbot> Create a folder named wesnoth-1.14. 20180426 06:46:06<+discordbot> Uploading to SF 20180426 06:54:02<+discordbot> i need to get on those capsule images.. 20180426 06:55:12<+discordbot> Uploaded to Steam 20180426 06:55:16<+discordbot> 👍 20180426 06:55:22<+discordbot> now we just need loony 20180426 06:59:06<+discordbot> hmm 20180426 06:59:20<+discordbot> I can't use the standard logo render for the main capsule image... 20180426 06:59:31<+discordbot> text 20180426 06:59:50<+discordbot> guess I need to scale down the 5k version 20180426 07:03:50<+discordbot> Ok, connection problems again 😦 I'll have to upload package to SF later. (in ~3 hours) 20180426 07:07:20<+discordbot> main capsule image up 20180426 07:15:09<+discordbot> small capsule image up 20180426 07:23:40<+discordbot> large capsule image up 20180426 07:24:04<+discordbot> tweaked the header image... 20180426 07:26:59<+discordbot> now, for the community capsule... 20180426 07:30:10<+discordbot> dealt with 20180426 07:30:19<+discordbot> these tiny images kinda look horrible but I guess it's to be expected 20180426 07:31:19<+discordbot> store page checklist done 20180426 07:46:42<+discordbot> Who is our Ubuntu packager? I have a complain about missing files in 1.12 on 17.10. 20180426 07:47:52-!- JyrkiVesterinen [~JyrkiVest@195-192-251-124.s1networks.fi] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180426 07:48:00-!- JyrkiVesterinen [~JyrkiVest@195-192-251-124.s1networks.fi] has left #wesnoth-dev [] 20180426 07:48:09<+discordbot> I think it's vincent_c. 20180426 07:48:59<+discordbot> You should file a bug to the Ubuntu bug tracker. 20180426 07:53:26<+discordbot> @loonycyborg let me know when the windows and Linux packages are on Steam 20180426 07:53:43<+discordbot> kk 20180426 07:54:50<+discordbot> @hrubymar10 for some reason I don't see macos dmg on sourceforge 20180426 07:54:56<+discordbot> only checksum file from it 20180426 07:55:13<+discordbot> yes, because I got connection drop so upload was interrupted 20180426 07:55:29<+discordbot> I must re-upload it again. Sorry for that delay 20180426 08:05:53<+discordbot> I removed the cross-platform multiplayer specifier last night 20180426 08:06:24<+discordbot> Why? 20180426 08:06:45<+discordbot> I looked it up. It refers to console-to-PC compatibility 20180426 08:06:55<+discordbot> Are you 100% sure? 20180426 08:07:06<+discordbot> wikipedia said so 20180426 08:07:20<+discordbot> Vultraz no. 20180426 08:07:26<+discordbot> Valve might use different definitions than Wikipedia... 20180426 08:07:33<+discordbot> Don't use Wikipedia as a primary source on how to set app metadata on Steam. 20180426 08:07:43<+discordbot> It should be pretty obvious why 20180426 08:07:51<+discordbot> You could get Dave to ask somebody instead. 20180426 08:11:15<+discordbot> eats crow 20180426 08:11:25<+discordbot> Looks like I was wrong 20180426 08:13:08<+discordbot> Is 1.14 going to be the first version of Wesnoth on Steam? 20180426 08:13:13<+discordbot> Yes. 20180426 08:13:42<+discordbot> And is it free like the online downloaded version? 20180426 08:14:05<+discordbot> Yes, it's also free to download in Steam. 20180426 08:14:36<+discordbot> Nice 20180426 08:33:12-!- TC01 [~quassel@venus.arosser.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 20180426 08:38:14< irker050> wesnoth: Wedge009 wesnoth:master 817f612f298a / projectfiles/VC14/ (wesnoth.vcxproj wesnoth.vcxproj.filters): Update VC project files. https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/817f612f298a2be33fc3d5277c99ee2a93997e65 20180426 08:38:16< irker050> wesnoth/wesnoth:1.14 Charles Dang fbc20dc116 Post-release version bump AppVeyor: All builds passed 20180426 08:39:20< irker050> wesnoth: Martin Hrubý (hrubymar10) wesnoth:1.14 ff2605738250 / projectfiles/Xcode/Resources/SDLMain.nib/ (designable.nib keyedobjects.nib): Add changelog for 1.14.0 https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/ff26057382502b05dbb638518b54b6f438542a50 20180426 08:49:06-!- Kawa[m] [kawamatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-ssiqbgvvzfmrjwbz] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180426 09:11:15-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180426 09:17:40-!- ChipmunkV[m] [chipmunkvm@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-qcobjnyfcvsxbdsi] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180426 09:17:40-!- madmax28 [madmax28ma@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-joaucxilxqzzfxfc] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180426 09:17:47-!- syrma[m] [syrmamatri@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-ufzhgljqpvgsgxca] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180426 09:31:08-!- wedge009 [~Thunderbi@60-241-236-92.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180426 09:38:57-!- madmax28 [madmax28ma@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-joaucxilxqzzfxfc] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20180426 09:39:13-!- syrma[m] [syrmamatri@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-ufzhgljqpvgsgxca] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20180426 09:39:24-!- ChipmunkV[m] [chipmunkvm@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-qcobjnyfcvsxbdsi] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20180426 09:40:12-!- Kawa[m] [kawamatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-ssiqbgvvzfmrjwbz] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20180426 09:56:16< irker050> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master f5626ddc301f / src/campaign_server/control.hpp: Campaignd: made use of vector::at https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/f5626ddc301f4762b488d1006b20123fe9c8edcd 20180426 10:01:15< wedge009> Hello everyone. Just did a compile of master and the Tutorial is crashing - anyone else has this issue on a recent compilation? 20180426 10:01:48< wedge009> Oh wait, I forgot - master isn't stable yet is it? 20180426 10:02:11<+discordbot> it is not 20180426 10:02:29<+discordbot> and won't be for a while 20180426 10:02:48< wedge009> Yep, I forgot. I haven't been around during a major update before. 20180426 10:03:31<+discordbot> now, if you said 1.14's Tutorial was crashing... 😬 20180426 10:04:47<+discordbot> 1.13.14 equals 1.14.1 ? 20180426 10:04:54<+discordbot> Uh, no. 20180426 10:04:54<+discordbot> if not where can i get 1.14 20180426 10:04:55<+discordbot> no 20180426 10:05:03<+discordbot> 1.13.14 is 1.14 RC 3. 20180426 10:05:04<+discordbot> 1.14.0 was just tagged today 20180426 10:05:09<+discordbot> it will be released next week 20180426 10:05:23<+discordbot> 1.14.1 is the 1.14.maintenance release #1. 20180426 10:05:34<+discordbot> And it's coming at some point after 1.14.0. 20180426 10:05:36<+discordbot> @hrubymar10 to confirm, you did upload the package to Steam? 20180426 10:06:20<+discordbot> thanks for clarification 20180426 10:07:38< wedge009> Testing some more, I'm finding that cutscenes crash when I try to skip them. In 1.14. I may have to do a complete rebuild to be sure, though. 20180426 10:07:54< wedge009> In campaign as well as Tutorial. 20180426 10:07:57<+discordbot> Yes, I uploaded macOS package 1.14.0 to steam I’ll upload it also to SF in 10 minutes 20180426 10:08:02<+discordbot> ok 20180426 10:08:03<+discordbot> good 20180426 10:08:29<+discordbot> @shadowm is there anything else you want me to add to the store page? 20180426 10:08:48<+discordbot> I'm going to mark it ready for review. Then once the builds are up, mark those ready for review 20180426 10:09:06<+discordbot> What do you mean add stuff? The descriptions are string-frozen. 20180426 10:09:24<+discordbot> If I asked you to add stuff I'd be backpedaling on my message to the i18n ML. 20180426 10:09:37<+discordbot> Ok 20180426 10:09:49<+discordbot> I haven't seen the screenshots or the trailer but I assume you know what you're doing in that regard. 20180426 10:09:58<+discordbot> You're the CM after all. 20180426 10:10:17<+discordbot> Store page marked as ready for review 20180426 10:10:22<+discordbot> it's in the queue 20180426 10:10:55<+discordbot> (Also your silence on the matter leads me to believe you don't think the Legal Information section is needed or important for release day.) 20180426 10:11:11<+discordbot> It can be added later if necessary 20180426 10:11:28<+discordbot> That's what I thought. 20180426 10:11:35<+discordbot> It says the store page review takes 2 - 3 days. The build review takes 3 - 5 20180426 10:11:42<+discordbot> I want to get that in ASAP... 20180426 10:19:17-!- Kawa[m] [kawamatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-nraijnklfmffkjqp] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180426 10:20:06<+discordbot> @loonycyborg what's the ETA? 20180426 10:23:06<+discordbot> building right now 20180426 10:23:07-!- vladimirslavik [vslavik@nat/redhat/x-lbkabwgmraqvpsrm] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180426 10:28:38<+discordbot> Steam image capsules are working 😄 20180426 10:28:38<+discordbot> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/259976436490829825/439009903609249792/unknown.png 20180426 10:29:03<+discordbot> But they are blurry 😦 (pixeled) 20180426 10:33:27-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180426 10:35:01<+discordbot> What's your monitor's resolution and pixel density? 20180426 10:35:47<+discordbot> I wonder if Steam has high-DPI support on macOS yet. 20180426 10:35:53<+discordbot> Also, this is what I get in Grid View: 20180426 10:35:54<+discordbot> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/259976436490829825/439011731289669632/unknown.png 20180426 10:36:11<+discordbot> Yeah, they only added high DPI support on Windows (and IIRC Linux as well) like a month ago. 20180426 10:36:12<+discordbot> High-DPI support only arrived this year on Windows, by far the most important platform. 20180426 10:38:03<+discordbot> And here it is in Big Picture mode: 20180426 10:38:04<+discordbot> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/259976436490829825/439012276406845440/unknown.png 20180426 10:41:30<+discordbot> they don't ask for High DPI resources... 20180426 10:41:35<+discordbot> 😐 20180426 10:41:59<+discordbot> I have Retina ~255dpi 20180426 10:42:06<+discordbot> yeah that's my res too 20180426 10:42:12<+discordbot> except even higher 20180426 10:42:14<+discordbot> er 20180426 10:42:16<+discordbot> ... 20180426 10:42:19<+discordbot> I can't talk 20180426 10:42:25<+discordbot> my DPI is slightly lower than that 20180426 10:42:28<+discordbot> either 240 or 250 20180426 10:42:54<+discordbot> I have only 144 DPI 😦 20180426 10:42:57<+discordbot> 240 DPI with 250% scaling, actually 20180426 10:43:03<+discordbot> (4K, 27 inches.) 20180426 10:43:10<+discordbot> 4K, 15 inches 20180426 10:43:31<+discordbot> 2.6K, 13 inches 😄 20180426 10:44:03<+discordbot> anyway, if I did something wrong they'll let me know 20180426 10:44:06<+discordbot> that's what review is for 20180426 10:44:35<+discordbot> AFAIK, Steam's reviews are only cursory. They let through all kinds of garbage. 20180426 10:45:20<+discordbot> True that. 20180426 10:46:07<+discordbot> $100 is a lot to pay to publish garbage 20180426 10:46:30<+discordbot> It happens anyway. 20180426 10:47:07<+discordbot> macOS package is up on SF 20180426 10:47:08<+discordbot> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/259976436490829825/439014558322130965/unknown.png 20180426 10:47:44<+discordbot> Some people are willing to throw away large amounts of money for inane crap. 20180426 10:48:05<+discordbot> Like they're made of the stuff or something. 20180426 10:48:43-!- ChipmunkV[m] [chipmunkvm@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-hqbnxterzwlrbnjt] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180426 10:48:44-!- madmax28 [madmax28ma@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-mkvctodqnrnloidv] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180426 10:48:50-!- syrma[m] [syrmamatri@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-amdrxwhibcayrmkt] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180426 10:52:18<+discordbot> I should make MAGA Simulator 2018 and sell it to trumptards for $19.99 20180426 10:52:38<+discordbot> if the bar is really that low 20180426 10:52:44<+discordbot> Vultraz. 20180426 10:53:33<+discordbot> (Quick search shows that there are already such games in Steam.) 20180426 10:53:40<+discordbot> ................................... 20180426 10:53:51<+discordbot> I know the rules got buried under the Discord link embeds but do I really need to remind you of rule #5? :p 20180426 10:54:24<+discordbot> yeah, fair point 20180426 10:55:52< irker050> wesnoth/wesnoth:1.14.0 Charles Dang f5fd48dafd Pre-release version bump AppVeyor: All builds passed 20180426 10:57:52<+discordbot> Maybe the Discord links should be removed from #welcome . 20180426 10:58:12<+discordbot> Right now, new people who join this server may not see the rules, depending on the window size. 20180426 10:59:35<+discordbot> I've been meaning to split off the rules and clarify a couple (and admins can already see the draft) but then #welcome becomes a waste of space I don't know how to fill up. 20180426 11:00:05<+discordbot> I suggest doing it before the Steam launch. 20180426 11:00:15<+discordbot> Not the only Discord where I've been slacking off in this regard honestly. 20180426 11:00:19<+discordbot> I expect a huge influx of new users when it happens. 20180426 11:00:22<+discordbot> Blame Wesnoth. 20180426 11:00:49<+discordbot> I've been sitting on a complete rules overhaul on another for almost a month now. 20180426 11:10:18<+discordbot> @Vultraz don't forget we need the release announcement ready today (or tomorrow in the worst case). 20180426 11:39:15<+discordbot> I'm on it 20180426 12:08:20<+discordbot> I've uploaded 1.14 to steam 20180426 12:17:45<+discordbot> @loonycyborg windows and linux? 20180426 12:21:30<+discordbot> yes 20180426 12:21:57<+discordbot> 👍 20180426 12:23:10<+discordbot> .....agh. Ok, will need to ask shadowm about this before I can add it to the queue... 20180426 12:38:18<+discordbot> (Nothing related to the build, ftr, just a last minute complication) 20180426 13:08:55<+discordbot> @sinda Okay, thanks for upgrading Lua and testing that. It's not entirely surprising because atan2 should be in both 5.1 and 5.3. How do we take it from here? That code has been in the add-on for years and nobody has ever reported that error; and I am actively working on Grnk at the moment without getting the problem. Either way, I think that upgrading Lua for the iOS port was good independent of this. 20180426 13:12:27<+discordbot> pthread_mutex_t mutexes[NUM_THREADS]; // Other stuff int main (void) { for (int i = 0; i < NUM_THREADS; i++) pthread_mutex_init(&mutexes[i], NULL); // Now you can use them safely. return 0; } 20180426 13:13:27<+discordbot> (IRC users: Zelteir removed their message.) 20180426 13:13:48<+discordbot> sorry for that, wrong chat 20180426 13:14:03<+discordbot> No problem. 😃 20180426 13:56:14-!- irker050 [~irker@uruz.ai0867.net] has quit [Quit: transmission timeout] 20180426 14:32:12-!- Oebele [~quassel@143.177.58.202] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180426 14:34:20<+discordbot> @mattsc You mean, how do we handle the bug report? I have a build ready. As soon as it uploads, the issue will be fixed. I suggest responding (maybe I will) that it will be fixed in 2-5 days. The problem was that a) since 1.10, iOS version was using out-of-tree Lua, instead of current in-tree; b) backward compatibility configuration - wesnoth_lua_config.h was not included into Lua sources. 20180426 14:36:25<+discordbot> @sinda I meant how do we handle figuring out what is going on. But you're well ahead of me on that one. 😃 20180426 14:45:06<+discordbot> Sure, I know the problem. I sorta created it! 20180426 14:52:16-!- irker282 [~irker@uruz.ai0867.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180426 14:52:16< irker282> wesnoth/wesnoth:master Wedge009 817f612f29 Update VC project files. AppVeyor: All builds passed 20180426 15:03:49-!- higgins [~higgins@68.ip-149-56-14.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20180426 15:08:51-!- esr1 is now known as esr 20180426 15:11:36<+discordbot> @shadowm revised version of the one from github, ready for use 20180426 15:11:37<+discordbot> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/259976436490829825/439081117400694815/westnothsteam_de.po 20180426 15:15:38-!- higgins [~higgins@68.ip-149-56-14.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180426 16:06:17< irker282> wesnoth/wesnoth:1.14 Martin Hrubý (hrubymar10) ff26057382 Add changelog for 1.14.0 AppVeyor: All builds passed 20180426 16:14:16<+discordbot> I used mailing list to send announcement to packagers this time 20180426 16:14:27<+discordbot> @shadowm you got mail from it? 20180426 16:24:33< irker282> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:1.14 d321024ff384 / po/wesnoth-lib/de.po: fix a %->$ in german translation https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/d321024ff384883e75a78f779cbcffb1551038ab 20180426 16:25:27<+discordbot> @loonycyborg , I haven't received your announcement O.o 20180426 16:26:21<+discordbot> what's your email? 20180426 16:29:15<+discordbot> I sent you DM 20180426 16:33:08<+discordbot> @zookeeper please don't forget to forward-port your utbs changes 20180426 16:47:33<+discordbot> So when does the Wesnoth Steam page go up? Don’t devs usually put that up in advance of the release? 20180426 16:48:43<+discordbot> next week 20180426 16:48:50<+discordbot> it needs review 20180426 16:49:15<+discordbot> nice, I just noticed a potential bug in 1.14... 20180426 16:54:06<+discordbot> That happened with me too, actually. 20180426 16:54:17<+discordbot> oh? 20180426 16:54:48<+discordbot> well, not worth a re-tag, I think. 20180426 16:58:00<+discordbot> Whenever I quit the game in Fullscreen, if I start it again and press strg+f that it happens. 20180426 16:58:25<+discordbot> ...strg? 20180426 16:58:29<+discordbot> what is a strg 20180426 16:59:07<+discordbot> Argh.. German layout. Control + F, the shortcut for toggling fullscreen/window mode 20180426 16:59:11<+discordbot> ah 20180426 16:59:30<+discordbot> hm,I don't see that... probably since I did the lower-res-then-maximize thing... 20180426 17:00:04<+discordbot> I think... 20180426 17:00:13<+discordbot> cpp bool maximized() { return get("maximized", !fullscreen()); } 20180426 17:00:30<+discordbot> I think I set the default like this so the game would start maximized at the time 🤔 20180426 17:00:38<+discordbot> but now, this means the default is false... 20180426 17:01:36<+discordbot> false means the mode isTO_WINDOWED 20180426 17:01:56<+discordbot> cpp case TO_WINDOWED: window->to_window(); window->restore(); break; 20180426 17:01:58< Ravana_> "We will announce the release within the next 72 hours." that part doesn't seem right. http://mailman.wesnoth.org/pipermail/packagers/2018-April/000000.html 20180426 17:02:30<+discordbot> that is.... incorrect indeed 😐 20180426 17:02:45<+discordbot> the announcement is supposed to be Monday 20180426 17:02:56<+discordbot> but it may be pushed back if the Steam review isn't done.. 20180426 17:03:11<+discordbot> Huh? May 1 is Tuesday. 20180426 17:03:21<+discordbot> 3-5 business days 20180426 17:03:22<+discordbot> 😦 20180426 17:03:34<+discordbot> for the build review 20180426 17:03:38<+discordbot> the store page is only 2-3 20180426 17:03:41<+discordbot> it should be done 20180426 17:04:12<+discordbot> but I haven't even gotten the build review in since it mentioned it might be useful to give them test login credentials for any required third-party login 20180426 17:04:32<+discordbot> I wonder if that's a necessity though 20180426 17:04:38<+discordbot> since we only require it for MP... 20180426 17:05:08<+discordbot> need to ask shadowm or dave 20180426 17:05:08<+discordbot> As I said, their reviews are known to be quite cursory. 20180426 17:05:23<+discordbot> yes, that's why it might not even be necessary 20180426 17:05:27<+discordbot> AFAIK, they tend to pretty much just test that the game launches. 20180426 17:05:34<+discordbot> I shall ask dave... 20180426 17:05:42<+discordbot> (he's in a position to know for sure) 20180426 17:07:58<+discordbot> As an example, stuff like this passes their review: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxysItrQFJ0 20180426 17:08:03<+discordbot> -.- 20180426 17:08:22<+discordbot> 🤷 20180426 17:14:24<+discordbot> I guess that got into steam by accident - Who would allow such a thing in his game store? 20180426 17:16:01<+discordbot> But the player at least seems to enjoy it 20180426 17:16:07<+discordbot> Most likely Valve wants to avoid an "evil Valve censors their store and doesn't give a chance to promising games!" narrative. 20180426 17:16:19<+discordbot> 🙄 20180426 17:16:30<+discordbot> Probably 20180426 17:16:32<+discordbot> Is the a problem with wesnoths license and steam? 20180426 17:16:37<+discordbot> Instead of policing Steam, they focus on providing tools for customers to find good games (tags, user reviews, curators...) 20180426 17:16:50<+discordbot> we all know games journalism is nuanced, fair, and reasonable 20180426 17:17:04<+discordbot> 😁 20180426 17:18:19<+discordbot> (and no,there is no problem) 20180426 17:21:46<+discordbot> Good, I was already worried 20180426 17:37:54-!- gallaecio [~quassel@164.red-79-153-178.dynamicip.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180426 17:53:04-!- vladimirslavik [vslavik@nat/redhat/x-lbkabwgmraqvpsrm] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20180426 18:02:04-!- gallaecio [~quassel@188.79.96.255] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180426 18:31:58<+discordbot> marked as ready for review 20180426 18:36:55<+discordbot> *pings @pydsigner 20180426 18:37:48<+discordbot> @pydsigner do you happen to recall if we ever explicitly codified our CC policy for mainline content besides "it must be either the GPL or CC SA? 20180426 18:42:05< irker282> wesnoth/wesnoth:master Charles Dang f5626ddc30 Campaignd: made use of vector::at AppVeyor: All builds passed 20180426 18:48:19<+discordbot> @Vultraz all we said I think is that we wanted CC content moving forward 20180426 18:49:08<+discordbot> But someone still needs to go through and start noting down authorship and licensing info per resource 20180426 18:49:22<+discordbot> Right, but we did say SA for new mainline content 20180426 18:49:40<+discordbot> I’m considering also allowing NC with exception given to wesnoth inc. 20180426 18:51:05<+discordbot> I just can’t remember if there was a reason we decided for SA for mainline 20180426 18:51:16<+discordbot> Except that it was close to the GPL 20180426 18:59:47<+discordbot> NC with exception given to wesnoth inc isn't cc nc and you really don't want to get into that 20180426 19:00:14<+discordbot> also, can we really relicense artwork after the fact 20180426 19:01:06<+discordbot> if, say, artwork was released under the GPL, is it okay to then turn around and change the terms of use to a CC license 20180426 19:03:18<+discordbot> You can ask the former authors, then it's dual licensed 20180426 19:07:50<+discordbot> @pydsigner whatdo you mean? 20180426 19:11:03<+discordbot> you can't just use a noncommercial license and then say oh, but it's okay if we use it commercially 20180426 19:11:35<+discordbot> i guess that makes sense 20180426 19:11:55<+discordbot> so what would be a "only x can use it commercially" license 20180426 19:12:18<+discordbot> a regular license? 20180426 19:12:24<+discordbot> Such licenses aren't really used in practice. 20180426 19:12:38<+discordbot> 🤔 20180426 19:12:47<+discordbot> The way to do it is usually that X holds the copyright, and thus doesn't need the license to do whatever it wants. 20180426 19:13:08<+discordbot> sure, so in the case of sprites 20180426 19:13:14<+discordbot> I guess whoever drew them (Jetrel?) 20180426 19:13:27<+discordbot> would be giving the copyright to wesnoth inc. 20180426 19:13:40<+discordbot> and thus wesnoth can use it under fair use 20180426 19:13:54<+discordbot> So, context. I was talking to LordBob about his latest work, and he said it'd be nice if it could be set up so no one else could sell and profit off his work, except us, of course. 20180426 19:14:00<+discordbot> but I guess you'd have to make it clear that others cannot use the artwork for free 20180426 19:14:28<+discordbot> Yes, asking Vultraz to donate copyright to Wesnoth Inc. is the best way to do it. 20180426 19:14:33<+discordbot> *LordBob 20180426 19:14:57<+discordbot> but then the artwork has to clearly be not licensed under GPL, CC-BY-SA, etc. 20180426 19:15:23<+discordbot> because right now, I think that whenever you dl wesnoth, everything that comes is assumed to be either GPL or CC-BY-SA 20180426 19:15:23<+discordbot> now we're getting into copyright vs licensing which I am not entirely clear as to the difference of... 20180426 19:15:58<+discordbot> as far as I understand, in super boiled down terms 20180426 19:16:21<+discordbot> copyright is who owns the rights to the work in question (say, artwork) 20180426 19:16:29<+discordbot> and then licensing is like who you'd be allowing to use it 20180426 19:16:42<+discordbot> (please correct me if I'm wrong, I only had one class on this) 20180426 19:16:59<+discordbot> Yes, that's how it works. 20180426 19:17:03<+discordbot> but the point is, if LordBob is donating the copyright to us 20180426 19:17:07<+discordbot> us being wesnoth 20180426 19:17:19<+discordbot> Copyright holder can do whatever he/she/it wants without needing to ask anyone for permission. 20180426 19:17:19<+discordbot> wesnoth has the right to choose how it distributes the work and who can use it for profit, non-profit, etc. 20180426 19:17:42<+discordbot> now the thing is, since artwork/other assets for wesnoth are usually assumed to be under GPL/CC-BY-SA 20180426 19:17:44<+discordbot> He/she/it can also license the work for anyone else to use, in arbitrary terms. 20180426 19:17:55<+discordbot> The flaw I see in this is that holding copyright on LB's art could possibly conflict with the terms of the GPL under which the wider project is licensed? Meaning someone who forked the project would have the right to have done so, but not the right to use everything within in 20180426 19:17:57<+discordbot> 🤔 20180426 19:17:58<+discordbot> then people may think they can take the artwork for free and even use it for profit (which is legal) 20180426 19:18:22<+discordbot> I don't like the GPL for artwork at all 20180426 19:18:32<+discordbot> it's just so messy 20180426 19:18:37<+discordbot> indeed... 20180426 19:19:04<+discordbot> @Vultraz Indeed, GPL requires "the entire work" to be available under the terms of the GPL. 20180426 19:19:21<+discordbot> I don't think LB is worried about people using his work, but of selling his work. As you saw with that shitty Android RPG. 20180426 19:19:24<+discordbot> I'm actually not entirely sure about that 20180426 19:19:35<+discordbot> the GPL refers to "source code" and "object code" separately 20180426 19:19:49<+discordbot> let me reread, I may be forgetting something 20180426 19:19:50<+discordbot> As far as I understand, since Wesnoth Inc. does not hold the copyright for the entire Wesnoth codebase, it's forced to comply with the GPL. It may extend even to art assets. 20180426 19:20:13<+discordbot> But what about the copyright we DO own 20180426 19:21:10<+discordbot> “Additional permissions” are terms that supplement the terms of this License by making exceptions from one or more of its conditions. Additional permissions that are applicable to the entire Program shall be treated as though they were included in this License, to the extent that they are valid under applicable law. If additional permissions apply only to part of the Program, that part may be used separately under those 20180426 19:21:11<+discordbot> permissions, but the entire Program remains governed by this License without regard to the additional permissions. When you convey a copy of a covered work, you may at your option remove any additional permissions from that copy, or from any part of it. (Additional permissions may be written to require their own removal in certain cases when you modify the work.) You may place additional permissions on material, added by you to a covered 20180426 19:21:11<+discordbot> work, for which you have or can give appropriate copyright permission. 20180426 19:21:27<+discordbot> "You may place additional permissions on material, added by you to a covered work, for which you have or can give appropriate copyright permission." 20180426 19:21:28<+discordbot> well, actually, the company doesn't own them, nevermind. The project does. 20180426 19:21:35<+discordbot> Which are different entities. 20180426 19:21:42<+discordbot> that could be useful, if handled correctly 20180426 19:21:49<+discordbot> AFAIU, Wesnoth Inc. needs to obey the GPL to be able to distribute Wesnoth at all, and needs to make all artwork available under the terms of the GPL (or any more permissive license) to be able to distribute Wesnoth. 20180426 19:21:52<+discordbot> that is from the GNU GPL v3.0 20180426 19:22:28<+discordbot> Well, we certainly are not making all work available under the GPL 20180426 19:22:35<+discordbot> West's new music is not GPL, for example 20180426 19:22:37<+discordbot> it's CC SA 20180426 19:22:46<+discordbot> (though that reminds menoone ever added the licensing file for it...) 20180426 19:23:22<+discordbot> And regarding additional permissions, AFAIU they are indeed permissions, not restrictions. GPL allows parts of the work to be distributed more permissively, but not adding restrictions to parts of it. 20180426 19:24:03<+discordbot> you're right 20180426 19:25:19<+discordbot> I guess this is why we chose only SA for mainline content 20180426 19:25:34<+discordbot> @Vultraz CC SA is compatible with the GPL, so the GPL allows parts of the project to be CC SA licensed. 20180426 19:25:50<+discordbot> that answers my original question, then 20180426 19:25:52<+discordbot> @Vultraz an exemption to CC NC isn't CC NC any more and now you have to lawyer about your changes. 20180426 19:26:04<+discordbot> https://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html#GPLCompatibleLicenses 20180426 19:27:53<+discordbot> Now when we originally talked about adding CC, we determined that the FSF holds it to be legal to combine GPL code with assets of any licence 20180426 19:29:05<+discordbot> though this raises an interesting question. could LB take action against someone who uses his work (if he holds copyright), even if we have a CC SA license to it, if they sell it? 20180426 19:29:38<+discordbot> I don't think so 20180426 19:29:41<+discordbot> CC SA is transferrable. 20180426 19:29:47<+discordbot> Share Alike. 20180426 19:29:53<+discordbot> yep 20180426 19:30:00<+discordbot> so LB really has no recourse if someone decides to sell his work 20180426 19:30:07<+discordbot> Correct 20180426 19:30:19<+discordbot> Well that fucking sucks 20180426 19:30:30<+discordbot> Not just for him, but for our company. 20180426 19:30:36<+discordbot> He would have to only share under a more restrictive license 20180426 19:30:42<+discordbot> Like NC 20180426 19:30:54<+discordbot> Except we need to be able to sell it 20180426 19:30:57<+discordbot> iOS port, remember? 20180426 19:31:34<+discordbot> Sell the game and include the art 20180426 19:31:47<+discordbot> what? 20180426 19:32:08<+discordbot> Are you suggesting what I think you're suggesting? 20180426 19:32:25<+discordbot> 🤔 20180426 19:33:04<+discordbot> that we technically violate the law but LB doesn't do anything about it 20180426 19:33:13<+discordbot> and so we're fine 20180426 19:33:22<+discordbot> 😅 20180426 19:33:25<+discordbot> well that's not what I was thinking 20180426 19:33:43<+discordbot> You're selling a packaging of a free game 20180426 19:33:50<+discordbot> ahhhh 20180426 19:33:59<+discordbot> It's legally grey I think 20180426 19:34:13<+discordbot> So you'd want to get a waiver from LB 20180426 19:34:26<+discordbot> But you said that violates NC 20180426 19:35:05<+discordbot> Structuring of things matters legally. 20180426 19:35:28<+discordbot> oh, certainly 20180426 19:35:43<+discordbot> If you say that you aren't selling the art, and have a paper from LB that says he agrees that you aren't selling it, you might be fine 20180426 19:35:49<+discordbot> But IANAL 20180426 19:36:07<+discordbot> t'is very interesting 20180426 19:36:21<+discordbot> not exactly what I thought you were implying, but interesting all the same... 20180426 19:36:27<+discordbot> it could work 20180426 19:36:56<+discordbot> But I see a flaw in that plan 20180426 19:37:02<+discordbot> What stops some asshole from doing the same thing? 20180426 19:37:23<+discordbot> And say their Shitty Generic RPG Scam App is just a "package" too? 20180426 19:39:15<+discordbot> The waiver doesn't list "any work by Scam App Ltd" 20180426 19:40:11<+discordbot> Now. Probably the best way to do this would be to dual license entirely 20180426 19:41:44<+discordbot> And say "art may be contributed under the CC ND and NC licenses, provided additional licensing is granted to Wesnoth Inc to modify and commercially use the ND/NC content" 20180426 19:42:03<+discordbot> That's.... 20180426 19:42:10<+discordbot> what my idea was in the first place? 20180426 19:42:17<+discordbot> That's what I came to you about 20180426 19:42:21<+discordbot> There's a difference 20180426 19:42:32<+discordbot> You talked about modding the license 20180426 19:42:36<+discordbot> IIRC 20180426 19:42:41<+discordbot> ....ah 20180426 19:42:47<+discordbot> but I meant what you just said above 20180426 19:42:49<+discordbot> 😦 20180426 19:43:18<+discordbot> https://creativecommons.org/faq/#can-i-enter-into-separate-or-supplemental-agreements-with-users-of-my-work 20180426 19:43:22<+discordbot> Ok lul 20180426 19:43:45<+discordbot> by "exemption to wesnoth inc" I meant "Wesnoth Inc. was given permission by LB to distribute this commercially" 20180426 19:44:10<+discordbot> Ok. You just don't put it directly into the NC 20180426 19:44:33<+discordbot> of course 20180426 19:44:52<+discordbot> now, to clarify 20180426 19:45:25<+discordbot> @pydsigner when you say dual license.... what are the dual license? I assume an ND piece would just be ND... or ar you implying ND AND SA 20180426 19:45:46<+discordbot> That's what dual licensing for. "Copyright owner can do whatever he wants", that's right. Including licensing the work to Wesnoth, Inc under commercial license, and to everyone else by GPL. 20180426 19:46:23<+discordbot> The dual licence is an ND or NC license, plus a non-free license directly and solely granted to the wesnoth orgs 20180426 19:46:55<+discordbot> Yep, dual license is two licenses. That might be given to different entities. 20180426 19:47:07<+discordbot> So everyone who plays wesnoth would receive the right to use the art non commercially/without modification still 20180426 19:47:40<+discordbot> ahhh 20180426 19:47:41<+discordbot> ok. 20180426 19:47:44<+discordbot> this makes sense 20180426 19:48:31<+discordbot> we should note this somewhere 20180426 19:49:20<+discordbot> Well first it should be signed off on by the board 20180426 19:49:27<+discordbot> as far as I can tell we never really noted the SA option? 20180426 19:50:29<+discordbot> I'll talk to the board 20180426 19:50:37<+discordbot> and then we can add a file detailing all this 20180426 19:50:43<+discordbot> if they're fine with it 20180426 19:52:08<+discordbot> I think the announcement post mentioned it 20180426 19:52:23<+discordbot> I meant in the repo 20180426 19:53:12<+discordbot> @pydsigner to clarify one thing... this dual-license suggestion, is it unrelated to "Sell the game and include the art"? 20180426 19:54:26<+discordbot> Yes 20180426 19:54:34<+discordbot> Ok 20180426 19:54:35<+discordbot> good 20180426 19:54:43<+discordbot> It avoids the handwaving 20180426 19:54:59<+discordbot> good 20180426 19:56:13-!- gfg [~androirc@134.76.63.8] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180426 20:24:40<+discordbot> I think the price of crappy stuff being made with Wesnoth's assets is worth the possibility of cool stuff being made with Wesnoth's assets, commercial or otherwise. 20180426 20:26:12<+discordbot> Something to think about, or poll others about, before heading down that road. 20180426 20:26:50<+discordbot> If content creators like LB would rather their art not be sold by third parties, that's entirely up to them 20180426 20:28:45<+discordbot> On the surface your statement is true, but it ignores the question of whether such restricted content is a good fit for wesnoth project and community, i.e. if we should accept it under such restrictions. 20180426 20:29:13<+discordbot> I am not going to start polling the community about that 20180426 20:29:19<+discordbot> It will result in a shitstorm 20180426 20:29:27<+discordbot> we've had enough bs from militant FOSS purists 20180426 20:30:33<+discordbot> well, I'm not talking about freeness zealots, but mainstream opinions expressed openly by numerous devs 20180426 20:31:22<+discordbot> I think Jetrel wrote one of his mini essays on it at some point 20180426 20:32:29<+discordbot> I shall speak to the board 20180426 20:32:32<+discordbot> including jetrel 20180426 20:38:34-!- gallaecio [~quassel@188.79.96.255] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20180426 20:39:43-!- gallaecio [~quassel@188.79.96.255] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180426 20:47:23<+discordbot> In the past it has come up a few times. IIRC, Aleksi expressed remorse over having contributed music to Wesnoth, once he realized that he couldn’t restrict it further and the license was so permissive. But as I recall that viewpoint didn’t receive much support from others. Those who agreed with him if any were in the minority. 20180426 20:48:11<+discordbot> It really isn't something I'm throwing up for vote 20180426 20:48:33<+discordbot> I could give a few other examples but hopefully you see my point. 20180426 20:48:39<+discordbot> If the board agrees then I'm declaring it acceptable for such dual-licensing to be done. 20180426 20:48:47<+discordbot> I see your point 20180426 20:49:16<+discordbot> side note: our Steam store page just got approved. 20180426 20:49:39<+discordbot> build review still pending 20180426 20:50:28<+discordbot> @shadowm I can make the store page live right now, displaying as Coming Soon. Thoughts? 20180426 20:51:48<+discordbot> @Vultraz DO NOT USE NC. 20180426 20:52:00<+discordbot> THAT IS NOT WHAT I ASKED YOU 20180426 20:52:12<+discordbot> That will instantly taint the game in Linux distributions and it'll end up in non-free repositories (or removed, in Fedora's case). 20180426 20:52:36<+discordbot> Dave raised such a point 20180426 20:53:08<+discordbot> The game is an aggregate component of downstreams so any restrictions placed on its distribution/modification affects them and the only obvious solution to that is not include the game by default. 20180426 20:53:33<+discordbot> So that's a significant audience you'd not be reaching (even if it probably doesn't seem that way to you right now). 20180426 20:53:52<+discordbot> It seems ridiculous that saying you cannot sell something implies to some people that you've made it non-free 20180426 20:53:54<+discordbot> We talked about this extensively back in the day so I'm surprised you even considered it a possibility just now of all times. 20180426 20:54:01<+discordbot> No, it's not ridiculous. 20180426 20:54:21<+discordbot> If I'm a distributor and I want to be able to sell discs of the distribution to support the project I should be able to. 20180426 20:55:31<+discordbot> Usually proceeds go directly into supporting the distribution's infrastructure, etc. 20180426 20:55:44< irker282> wesnoth: Nils Kneuper wesnoth:master c1f3cffa1c85 / po/ (7 files in 7 dirs): updated Italian translation https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/c1f3cffa1c85670ca0a12764f039a126b2d2ca5c 20180426 20:55:51< irker282> wesnoth: Nils Kneuper wesnoth:1.14 4e1549f1373b / / (9 files in 8 dirs): updated Italian translation https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/4e1549f1373bb04f8a66e6a8ac6ee71d977892fd 20180426 20:56:27<+discordbot> Then your solution is I tell LB sorry, nothing we can do to help prevent people from stealing your work and making money off it? 20180426 20:56:45<+discordbot> Yes. 20180426 20:56:59<+discordbot> You/we should've conveyed this correctly to him about 9 years ago 20180426 20:57:29<+discordbot> TO BE CLEAR: this is not an issue regarding his current, past, or future commissions or contributions 20180426 20:57:48<+discordbot> this only arose since I was discussion licensing of his work with him (as you asked me to). 20180426 20:58:11<+discordbot> I only really askedyou if his new work was licensed under CC BY-SA instead of GNU GPL. 20180426 20:58:47<+discordbot> He said he would prefer NC, but barring that, SA is fine 20180426 20:58:51<+discordbot> for mainline 20180426 20:59:34<+discordbot> Like I said, we discussed this extensively back in the day before the licensing change proposal was even made public, so I'm surprised to see this become a subject of discussion today. 20180426 21:00:13<+discordbot> A bunch of people for some reason assumed we didn't look at all the angles of the issue when in fact we did (or I thought we did). 20180426 21:00:50<+discordbot> The board raises the same objection as you. 20180426 21:01:04<+discordbot> I'll drop the idea. 20180426 21:01:26<+discordbot> I'm not sure why you are asking me whether you can make the store live right now when I'm not the decider for that. 20180426 21:01:31<+discordbot> I wanted to at least explore the possibility of NC. 20180426 21:01:33<+discordbot> I have one translation to add first though. 20180426 21:01:42<+discordbot> yes, they recommended more translations 20180426 21:01:50<+discordbot> Caution: The "Short Description" and "About This" sections aren't localized in any language except English, Italian, Spanish, Czech and Simplified Chinese. We recommend resolving this issue, but this won't prevent you from releasing the app. 20180426 21:03:02< irker282> wesnoth: Iris Morelle steam-meta:master e3b55fec7041 / app_metadata.de.txt po/de.po: Add German translation https://github.com/wesnoth/steam-meta/commit/e3b55fec7041deccbe461f9f71e2224e37401c29 20180426 21:06:07<+discordbot> @Vultraz German is in. 20180426 21:06:37<+discordbot> In as to the repo or in as to the store page. 20180426 21:06:47<+discordbot> Both. 20180426 21:11:57-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20180426 21:23:59<+discordbot> I'll make the page live. 20180426 21:26:25<+discordbot> @shadowm I found an mistake in the text, could you upload this 20180426 21:26:25<+discordbot> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/259976436490829825/439175442054905877/wesnothsteam_de_v2.po 20180426 21:26:49<+discordbot> @Vultraz If you didn't yet, maybe wait a sec 20180426 21:27:03<+discordbot> I did 20180426 21:27:45< irker282> wesnoth: Iris Morelle steam-meta:master 46e55a304838 / app_metadata.de.txt po/de.po: Update German translation https://github.com/wesnoth/steam-meta/commit/46e55a30483872c44e4560061ddfcd4230d40349 20180426 21:28:32<+discordbot> Side note, notice to all. Henceforce all STORY ART and PORTRAITS (including previous ones) by LordBob are under CC-BY-SA. I'll need to add the appropriate .license files, but might as well mention it. 20180426 21:29:42<+discordbot> Should've done so before adding them to mainline tbh. 20180426 21:30:02<+discordbot> nice, steam, you tell me I can view my store page at the link below and when I go to the link below you take me to the main store page 20180426 21:31:45<+discordbot> Okay, updated the German description on the store as well. 20180426 21:32:38<+discordbot> steam y u do dis 20180426 21:34:30<+discordbot> thanks 20180426 22:02:11<+discordbot> I'm working on the announcement 20180426 22:06:38-!- boucman [~rosen@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180426 22:07:11-!- gallaecio [~quassel@188.79.96.255] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20180426 22:08:23-!- gallaecio [~quassel@188.79.96.255] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180426 22:10:05-!- gallaecio [~quassel@188.79.96.255] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180426 22:33:17-!- Oebele [~quassel@143.177.58.202] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180426 22:37:14< irker282> wesnoth/wesnoth:1.14 gfgtdf d321024ff3 fix a %->$ in german translation AppVeyor: All builds passed 20180426 22:59:21-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180426 23:00:42-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180426 23:23:02<+discordbot> @sinda @hrubymar10 any idea what's with that ^ ? 20180426 23:25:33<+discordbot> Yes, have a distant idea. I commented that I can take a shot at it. Probably a stuck scroll_speed_x or what is it called, if a key-up event was not received. 20180426 23:33:35<+discordbot> Wesnoth's icons on grid view and Big Picture display correctly now 😄 20180426 23:33:41<+discordbot> (Steam) 20180426 23:33:44<+discordbot> ¯_(ツ)_/¯ 20180426 23:34:04<+discordbot> Quality Steam Servers 20180426 23:36:43-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180426 23:49:39-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180426 23:49:45-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180426 23:58:43-!- celmin|sleep is now known as celticminstrel 20180426 23:59:27< celticminstrel> Seems slightly misleading to say a 3rd-party account is required, since it's only required for multiplayer and even then only on the official server. --- Log closed Fri Apr 27 00:00:39 2018