--- Log opened Sat Apr 28 00:00:40 2018 20180428 00:54:01-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180428 00:57:17-!- irker102 [~irker@uruz.ai0867.net] has quit [Quit: transmission timeout] 20180428 00:58:42-!- celmin|away is now known as celticminstrel 20180428 01:08:21-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180428 01:08:28-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180428 01:51:47< celticminstrel> Maybe I'll try my hand at fixing the animate_unit bug tomorrow. 20180428 01:51:56< celticminstrel> Unless gfg gets to it first. 20180428 01:52:12< celticminstrel> It doesn't seem like it would be difficult to fix, after all. 20180428 02:01:11< celticminstrel> I forget if sevu is on Discord. 20180428 02:01:44< celticminstrel> Ah, he is. 20180428 02:02:23< celticminstrel> @sevu, when you're fixing up toplevel headers, you generally need to increase the level of all the other headers on the page. (Though actually in this particular case the header isn't really needed at all.) 20180428 02:02:26< celticminstrel> https://wiki.wesnoth.org/index.php?title=WhyWritingAWesnothAIIsHard&curid=3306&diff=59459&oldid=48079 20180428 02:03:34< celticminstrel> (FTR, I removed that header since it just duplicated the page title.) 20180428 03:08:20<+discordbot> @Vultraz How's that announcement going? 20180428 03:17:46-!- irker032 [~irker@uruz.ai0867.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180428 03:17:46< irker032> wesnoth/wesnoth:1.14 Steve Cotton 56d3ac8371 Make CMake error-out if required librari AppVeyor: All builds passed 20180428 03:24:32<+discordbot> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/259976436490829825/439627951349432320/unknown.png 20180428 03:24:33<+discordbot> Welp. 20180428 03:25:42<+discordbot> I kind of guessed this would happen. 20180428 03:31:19< celticminstrel> ? 20180428 03:32:00< celticminstrel> Just the fact that there are still open issues in the milestone? 20180428 03:32:21< celticminstrel> Well, one of those was supposed to be bumped to 1.14.1 anyway... or perhaps even dropped... 20180428 03:33:09< celticminstrel> Actually 2779 could be closed, really. 20180428 03:33:28< celticminstrel> The fixes were merged, and the cleanups I think are added to the 1.14.1 milestone ATM? 20180428 03:33:55< celticminstrel> 2653 is something that needs doing but it's all wiki stuff. 20180428 03:34:15< celticminstrel> I implemented 1239 but it seems that someone later broke it. 20180428 03:34:26< celticminstrel> Pretty sure 1278 was done. 20180428 03:34:44< celticminstrel> I guess the only one that's bad is 1549 which is marked as a blocker. 20180428 03:34:58< celticminstrel> I thought @Vultraz had a fix for 2602 locally, no idea why he didn't push it. 20180428 03:35:41< celticminstrel> 2815 might've been addressed? Maybe only partially though. 20180428 03:36:19<+discordbot> Yeah you and vultraz and everyone else should do whatever needs to be done with all of these, including reassigning them to 1.14.1 as needed. 20180428 03:36:23< celticminstrel> No idea about 2813, 2713, 2357, or 1240, but they don't sound that major just from the titles. 20180428 03:36:37<+discordbot> Although I kind of like knowing which ones were supposed to be done for 1.14.0 but weren't for one reason or another. 20180428 03:37:05< celticminstrel> 1491 sounds really easy to do, I think? 20180428 03:37:06<+discordbot> It helps put the flaws of the time-based scheduling into context. 20180428 03:37:26< celticminstrel> So I'll start by closing 2779. 20180428 03:38:09< celticminstrel> Is it accurate that tab doesn't work to switch between text fields in dialogs that have more than one? 20180428 03:38:18< celticminstrel> IIRC one example of such a dialog is in the editor when you place a label. 20180428 03:38:26<+discordbot> It doesn't in the MP login prompt at least. 20180428 03:38:36< celticminstrel> Okay. 20180428 03:38:47<+discordbot> There was an open bug for that back in the gna.org days even. 20180428 03:39:01< celticminstrel> My implementaiton did require every dialog with multiple fields to manually register a tab order, so it's possible that dialog was simply missed... 20180428 03:39:06< celticminstrel> ^implementation 20180428 03:39:23< celticminstrel> Though I think it would be kinda odd to miss it, but still, it's possible. 20180428 03:39:27<+discordbot> https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/issues/1239 20180428 03:39:54< celticminstrel> Yeah, I implemented it awhile ago, as that thread says. That's why it's marked "ready for testing". 20180428 03:40:41< celticminstrel> If it works in any dialog it's probably safe to close it. (That is, if there exists a dialog where it works.) But if it's not working in one dialog I'm not sure how likely it is that'll work in other dialogs... depends on why it's not working... 20180428 03:42:17< celticminstrel> I think I'll reassign the minor-sounding ones to 1.14.1, any objections? 2815, 2602, 2357, 1491, 1240. 20180428 03:42:44< celticminstrel> Also 2653 I guess, since it's wiki stuff? Maybe it just shouldn't be in a milestone? I'm not sure. 20180428 03:43:18<+discordbot> I've never been very approving of meta stuff like that being in the issue tracker. 20180428 03:43:20< celticminstrel> Pretty sure 1278 can be closed. 20180428 03:43:42< celticminstrel> Any objections to the reassignments though? 20180428 03:43:55< celticminstrel> (I can quote the titles instead of the numbers if you prefer.) 20180428 03:43:58<+discordbot> I expressed my objections preemptively. 20180428 03:44:46< celticminstrel> Well, whatever. I have no idea what that means so I'll just do it. 20180428 03:44:46<+discordbot> It's not my decision anyway -- if Vultraz doesn't care about having solid evidence of why time-based releases don't work out in practice, then probably nobody else cares. 20180428 03:44:52<+discordbot> Oh come on. 20180428 03:45:06<+discordbot> > Yeah you and vultraz and everyone else should do whatever needs to be done with all of these, including reassigning them to 1.14.1 as needed. 20180428 03:45:09<+discordbot> > Although I kind of like knowing which ones were supposed to be done for 1.14.0 but weren't for one reason or another. 20180428 03:45:19<+discordbot> > It helps put the flaws of the time-based scheduling into context. 20180428 03:45:25< celticminstrel> Oh, I see how that's an objection now. 20180428 03:45:37< irker032> wesnoth: Gregory A Lundberg wesnoth:1.14 c3fb945f7d76 / src/gui/widgets/text_box_base.cpp: Fix doccomment error https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/c3fb945f7d762386345e408b9e6ab39f0124923d 20180428 03:45:39< celticminstrel> I'll hold off on reassigning them for the time being. Might do it later though. 20180428 03:46:26<+discordbot> Here's a screenshot for posterity I guess: 20180428 03:46:26<+discordbot> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/259976436490829825/439633462777872406/unknown.png 20180428 03:46:53< celticminstrel> Ah, that's why 1278 wasn't closed. The functionality was implemented, but a command-line switch was not added to disable it. 20180428 03:47:22< celticminstrel> Maybe it's better to start a new issue for that? Though the issue was technically about the command-line switch in the first place. 20180428 03:47:48< celticminstrel> But then again, the implementation is kinda the reverse of what the issue asks for (we need a command-line switch to not hide minor translations)... 20180428 03:48:16<+discordbot> Maybe it could be handled with -d/--debug. 20180428 03:48:33< celticminstrel> Adding a command-line switch is easy in any case, I could probably do it tomorrow (though I guess it's better to wait until the string freeze is listed so I can update the man-page at the same time). 20180428 03:48:40<+discordbot> That way it won't require any new strings for 1.14.1. 20180428 03:48:41< celticminstrel> Or yeah it could be done using --debug, I guess. 20180428 03:48:48<+discordbot> (1.14.1 is already getting too many new strings.) 20180428 03:49:06< celticminstrel> I noticed that for some reason the command-line strings don't seem to actually be marked translatable. 20180428 03:49:55< celticminstrel> I think using --debug might not be the best option, but it is a viable one. 20180428 03:50:31< celticminstrel> (Basically, using --debug means we need to tell translators to use --debug, which in turn means that they may see deprecation messages and report them... which isn't bad per se, I guess...) 20180428 04:04:17-!- gallaecio [~quassel@188.79.96.255] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180428 04:19:10< irker032> wesnoth: Gregory A Lundberg wesnoth:master 092f8f325c28 / src/gui/widgets/text_box_base.cpp: Fix doccomment error https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/092f8f325c28aa34b1385c042132ec6cc5a40f1d 20180428 05:35:12< irker032> wesnoth/wesnoth:master pentarctagon 3effecdb06 Don't copy the po/ directory into the do AppVeyor: All builds passed 20180428 05:44:06-!- boucman [~rosen@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180428 05:48:23<+discordbot> zookeeper has not forward-ported his UtBS changes 20180428 05:53:05<+discordbot> oh, and our build has been approved! 20180428 05:53:25<+discordbot> no blocking issues 20180428 05:53:27<+discordbot> one comment, though 20180428 05:53:43<+discordbot> Caution: Some of your store page screenshots contain a menu screenshots. - Screenshot 6: Please show customers what your game is actually like to play by including at least five actual gameplay screenshots. We recommend resolving this issue, but this won't prevent you from releasing the game. 20180428 05:54:05<+discordbot> dunno why this wasn't in the store review 20180428 05:54:09<+discordbot> ¯_(ツ)_/¯ 20180428 05:54:25<+discordbot> and it runs contrary to what they said about only show menus if it's a unique part of the game 20180428 05:54:32<+discordbot> which the addon server is 20180428 05:54:50<+discordbot> manager* 20180428 05:55:03<+discordbot> They probably mean unique part of the game like they tend to be in visual novels and the like. 20180428 05:55:10<+discordbot> How's that announcement going? 20180428 05:55:37<+discordbot> Badly. I'll keep working on it this evening. 20180428 05:55:48<+discordbot> Translators will have less than 3 days, 20180428 05:55:59<+discordbot> So that's going to go really badly. 20180428 05:56:13<+discordbot> Translations don't matter for launch. They can be added any time. 20180428 05:56:15<+discordbot> At this point we might as well give up on the pretense of being able to provide -- 20180428 05:56:22<+discordbot> Yeah I knew you'd say that. 20180428 05:56:46<+discordbot> (That's not a good thing.) 20180428 06:24:09< celticminstrel> Silly Vultraz. If you don't have translations at launch, how do you expect the non-English-speakers to decide whether the game sounds interesting? 20180428 06:24:32<+discordbot> (At this point I'm frustrated enough I can't be bothered to even pursue that line of discussion.) 20180428 06:25:10< vn971> :-/ 20180428 06:43:34<+discordbot> Weird thing is this sticky scrolling. Sometimes there are no SDL_KEYUP-s right after SDL_PollEvent(). How can this be a problem in Wesnoth?.. 20180428 06:45:05<+discordbot> Most likely another event context iscreated (for a GUI dialog, for example) and it swallows the SDL_KEYUP event. 20180428 06:46:44<+discordbot> It happens in-game, no other dialogs there 8-\ 20180428 07:40:42< vn971> Guys, can you please tell if there's an add-on server for 1.15 working already? 20180428 07:41:12<+discordbot> Nope. 20180428 07:41:46< vn971> oh, OK. I was wondering if there's any issue here: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/blob/master/data/tools/wesnoth/campaignserver_client.py#L30 Okay then. 20180428 07:42:17< vn971> ( dunno why I pasted the line since it's irrelevant. :/ ) 20180428 07:42:17<+discordbot> It'll be 15015, I know that much since I already got the configuration ready. 20180428 07:44:25< irker032> wesnoth: V N wesnoth:addon_manager_add_1_15 87e1caa33975 / data/tools/wesnoth/campaignserver_client.py: addon_manager: add 1.15.x server https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/87e1caa33975d28c74f5f1ad8469d573edbe4efd 20180428 07:44:46<+discordbot> Why is this in a branch? 20180428 07:45:16< irker032> wesnoth: Jyrki Vesterinen wesnoth:opengl 62a0a9123b14 / / (13 files in 5 dirs): Integrate GLEW to the Visual Studio project https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/62a0a9123b14fa5d819ad1f7f494824f081fe22d 20180428 07:45:18< irker032> wesnoth: Sofartin wesnoth:opengl 45d063b50756 / projectfiles/Xcode/ (Fix_Xcode_Dependencies Wesnoth.xcodeproj/project.pbxproj): Fixed Xcode Project for OpenGL https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/45d063b50756e69dbe00d525474d50827d1b92aa 20180428 07:45:20< irker032> wesnoth: Jyrki Vesterinen wesnoth:opengl f422881d14c4 / src/ogl/context.cpp: Stop logging GL_VENDOR https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/f422881d14c422f157ec8e495b8fdf3d7926eb7f 20180428 07:45:22< irker032> wesnoth: pentarctagon wesnoth:opengl a4966a32a24b / / (9 files in 4 dirs): Updates cmake and scons to be able to compile with OGL. https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/a4966a32a24b1d5089738558e831a4ccd753bb31 20180428 07:45:24< irker032> wesnoth: pentarctagon wesnoth:opengl a42f38160acb / SConstruct: Remove forgotten environment dump. https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/a42f38160acbbc5553e0e1b346b96d513cdac607 20180428 07:45:26< irker032> wesnoth: pentarctagon wesnoth:opengl c7c9166813d6 / .travis.yml: Re-add travis' notifications. https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/c7c9166813d685ea2f20575b6d6be48ced5c5a03 20180428 07:45:28< irker032> wesnoth: pentarctagon wesnoth:opengl dfba05d105dc / SConstruct scons/gl.py: Adds OpenGL/GLEW checks to scons. https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/dfba05d105dc54b8e5d2b0f168e716b061bff1ec 20180428 07:45:30< irker032> wesnoth: Sofartin wesnoth:opengl eb0ef64ed9b8 / projectfiles/Xcode/Wesnoth.xcodeproj/project.pbxproj: Fixed Xcode Project for OpenGL https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/eb0ef64ed9b8b1a187c500fca22cd0d0a8b689b5 20180428 07:45:32< irker032> wesnoth: Jyrki Vesterinen wesnoth:opengl 6422be3fa030 / / (6 files in 3 dirs): Add a texture class https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/6422be3fa030c15aa9f57bdd3a69e6ee531712fd 20180428 07:45:34< irker032> wesnoth: Jyrki Vesterinen wesnoth:opengl 4f5c866e403d / / (7 files in 3 dirs): Add sprite, draw_op and vertex classes https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/4f5c866e403d652ab30ae33c68b2d9b1a4eee8d4 20180428 07:45:36< irker032> wesnoth: Sofartin wesnoth:opengl a2323a2166a8 / projectfiles/Xcode/Wesnoth.xcodeproj/project.pbxproj: Fix xcode project after aff0465441c62f6932bf19ba42fbedeffc5fbf86 https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/a2323a2166a8fa8b3d1fd506f1057ea1da6234c1 20180428 07:45:38< irker032> wesnoth: Jyrki Vesterinen wesnoth:opengl 6073a5496335 / / (5 files in 3 dirs): Add a shader class https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/6073a549633536b28d875c45eb5184e3b99489cb 20180428 07:45:40< irker032> wesnoth: Martin Hrubý (hrubymar10) wesnoth:opengl f0497b15ead5 / projectfiles/Xcode/Wesnoth.xcodeproj/project.pbxproj: Fix Xcode project after 3e96a3aa2c357c539c255dbe8b431f6857f8170a https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/f0497b15ead5f17ad542992996c364b5581913fc 20180428 07:45:53<+discordbot> OpenGL branch rebased to latest master. 20180428 07:46:25< vn971> @shadowm: damn, sorry, I thought I pushed to my own repo, in order to PR later. 20180428 07:46:58<+discordbot> I prefer to keep those atomic anyway: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/0b3f14d63e29944d3d10a3fcc5335a165f7c08ef 20180428 07:47:55<+discordbot> Also, I refuse to merge anything of the sort or bring up the 1.15.x add-ons server until master stops being broken. 20180428 07:49:40< vn971> @shadowm: understood. 20180428 07:55:06< irker032> wesnoth: V N wesnoth:addon_manager_add_1_15 87e1caa33975 / data/tools/wesnoth/campaignserver_client.py: addon_manager: add 1.15.x server https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/87e1caa33975d28c74f5f1ad8469d573edbe4efd 20180428 08:01:39-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-54-197-150-232.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180428 08:01:40< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#17840 (addon_manager_add_1_15 - 87e1caa : V N): The build failed. 20180428 08:01:40< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/372341352 20180428 08:01:40-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-54-197-150-232.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has left #wesnoth-dev [] 20180428 08:03:20<+discordbot> @shadowm actually I took over ownership of flathub's wesnoth app 20180428 08:03:32<+discordbot> Oh, so it's official now then? 20180428 08:03:37<+discordbot> seems so 20180428 08:03:59<+discordbot> Could you make it more prominent in the Linux builds page that's linked from the front page? 20180428 08:04:11<+discordbot> https://wiki.wesnoth.org/WesnothBinariesLinux 20180428 08:04:50<+discordbot> ps://github.com/flathub/flathub/wiki/App-Submission#someone-else-has-put-my-app-on-flathubwhat-do-i-do 20180428 08:05:29<+discordbot> I will, though it doesn't carry 1.14 yet 20180428 08:05:57<+discordbot> not sure if updating it is appropriate before announcement 20180428 08:06:31<+discordbot> Yes. 20180428 08:06:43<+discordbot> All official builds should be up before the announcement. 20180428 08:13:27-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180428 08:13:33-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180428 08:41:56-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-54-197-150-232.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180428 08:41:57< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#17841 (opengl - f0497b1 : Martin Hrubý (hrubymar10)): The build was broken. 20180428 08:41:58< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/372341462 20180428 08:41:58-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-54-197-150-232.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has left #wesnoth-dev [] 20180428 08:49:23<+discordbot> Making progress on the announcement... 20180428 08:50:21-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-54-167-8-184.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180428 08:50:22< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#17843 (addon_manager_add_1_15 - 87e1caa : V N): The build failed. 20180428 08:50:22< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/372342854 20180428 08:50:22-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-54-167-8-184.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has left #wesnoth-dev [] 20180428 08:51:53< galegosimpatico> On iOS TestFlight 38 I've possibly found a unimportant UI glitch at the preferences menu, also I've a feature request I think is not tracked. But I wonder if I better refrain from creating new issues at github/singalen. That was the bug tracker for iOS 1.13, does it remain the same for 1.14 and 1.15? 20180428 08:52:15< galegosimpatico> I mean, both? 20180428 08:52:30<+discordbot> @sinda Could you answer the question above? 20180428 08:53:57< galegosimpatico> The glitch is not only unimportant but also I haven't checked yet if it's specific of the iOS build. 20180428 08:54:52< galegosimpatico> (I would check before reporting). 20180428 08:56:00< galegosimpatico> I'm playing it now, it's really nice in my device. Congrats. 20180428 09:17:09< wedge009> I like the new turn bell sound effect. 20180428 09:18:40< irker032> wesnoth/wesnoth:1.14 doofus-01 6fdde681a6 adding smashed tree terrain for first sc AppVeyor: All builds passed 20180428 09:24:36< Rhonda> For the record, the https://manual.wesnoth.org/ link from steam now has a proper certificiate. :) 20180428 09:25:20<+discordbot> @Vultraz You can revert the wiki link to manual.w.o, I don't feel like doing the 2FA dance right now. 20180428 09:25:38<+discordbot> alright 20180428 09:26:17< Rhonda> I have the issue that DATAROOTDIR doesn't seem to get used anymore in cmake, is that right? 20180428 09:36:51< irker032> wesnoth: newfrenchy83 wesnoth:1.14 3fdfcec07df8 / projectfiles/CodeBlocks/wesnoth.cbp: Update wesnoth.cbp https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/3fdfcec07df80d82e9d05a98f5b76d30962ad83b 20180428 09:39:17<+discordbot> Rhonda, GNUInstallDirs is used now: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/0e57d0840a1fc8a65427a5fdc83ee420c51e75ad 20180428 09:40:00<+discordbot> https://cmake.org/cmake/help/v3.0/module/GNUInstallDirs.html 20180428 09:41:50< Rhonda> meh :/ Thanks for the hint, looking into it. 20180428 09:41:58< Rhonda> … I've been out of the loop for too long. 20180428 09:45:01< Rhonda> (but it built through :)) 20180428 09:52:57-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180428 10:42:15<+discordbot> is libgthread removed from opengl branch? 20180428 10:43:02<+discordbot> i don't know 20180428 11:08:03< irker032> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master 41d7df970c43 / src/tod_manager.cpp: fix segfault on area= filter. https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/41d7df970c43cd74413a93b635058e494dd67d78 20180428 11:08:05< irker032> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master 6c802b501604 / po/wesnoth-lib/de.po: fix a %->$ in german translation https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/6c802b5016047f80453696654ef6d4430df4584d 20180428 11:09:25<+discordbot> gfgtdf: Can you not skip the translation pipeline? Contact the maintainer instead. 20180428 11:09:52<+discordbot> Otherwise you risk your fix getting clobbered by a translation update. 20180428 11:16:48-!- gfgtdf [~chatzilla@x4e363c56.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180428 11:17:19< gfgtdf> shadowm: last time i had such a fix Ivanovic told me i should just commit it. 20180428 11:18:24<+discordbot> When was that? 20180428 11:18:34< gfgtdf> a year ago 20180428 11:18:48<+discordbot> Because he used to be the translation maintainer. 20180428 11:19:13<+discordbot> Or co-maintainer. 20180428 11:19:42< gfgtdf> hmm 20180428 11:19:51<+discordbot> If you'll insist on taking shortcuts I guess I'll tag @sevu so he's aware in case his people are also working on the file. 20180428 11:20:51< gfgtdf> k 20180428 11:20:53<+discordbot> (Also a year ago almost all translations were dormant anyway.) 20180428 11:22:26<+discordbot> (Also remember that translators are working on 1.14.) 20180428 11:23:34< gfgtdf> y that was a forward port of a commit of mine form 1.14 20180428 11:24:35<+discordbot> As an aside 20180428 11:25:44<+discordbot> I've talked to a lot of native speakers who seem to read 'y' as 'why' even if the context makes it obvious that it's not that. 20180428 11:26:30< gfgtdf> k 20180428 11:50:12<+discordbot> @hrubymar10 I think I just screwed up the rebase. 😦 20180428 11:50:17<+discordbot> Could you fix it? 20180428 12:16:50< Ivanovic> gfgtdf: at that time the translation was inactive 20180428 12:17:11< Ivanovic> gfgtdf: by now it is active again, also see the chat happening in #wesnoth-de (or the related discord chan) 20180428 12:18:50< irker032> wesnoth/wesnoth:1.14 Gregory A Lundberg c3fb945f7d Fix doccomment error AppVeyor: All builds passed 20180428 12:37:01-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180428 12:37:07-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180428 12:46:48<+discordbot> Invanovic is here on discord? o_O 20180428 12:47:39< Rhonda> ah, hmm 20180428 12:48:35< Rhonda> @jyrkive, that didn't do the trick, I use those dirs. 20180428 12:49:23< Rhonda> cmake .. -DCMAKE_INSTALL_PREFIX=/usr -DCMAKE_VERBOSE_MAKEFILE=ON -DCMAKE_BUILD_TYPE=None -DCMAKE_INSTALL_SYSCONFDIR=/etc -DCMAKE_INSTALL_LOCALSTATEDIR=/var -DCMAKE_EXPORT_NO_PACKAGE_REGISTRY=ON -DCMAKE_FIND_PACKAGE_NO_PACKAGE_REGISTRY=ON "-GUnix Makefiles" -DBINARY_SUFFIX=-1.14 -DCMAKE_INSTALL_PREFIX=/usr/ -DBINDIR=/usr/games -DDATAROOTDIR=/usr/share/games -DDATADIRNAME=wesnoth/1.14 […] 20180428 12:49:29< Rhonda> […]-DDESKTOPDIR=/usr/share/applications -DDOCDIR=/usr/share/doc/wesnoth-1.14-data -DLOCALEDIR=locale -DMANDIR=/usr/share/man -DUSE_ANA_NETWORK=OFF -DCMAKE_VERBOSE_MAKEFILE=on 20180428 12:49:52< Rhonda> The DATADIRNAME is not a GNU dir, it is something wesnoth specific from what I can tell? 20180428 12:51:50< Rhonda> I see it in CMakeLists.txt still mentioned, though it doesn't seem to be uses … 20180428 12:54:58< Rhonda> Ah, wait. It changed from DATAROOTDIR to CMAKE_INSTALL_DATAROOTDIR? 20180428 12:55:59< Rhonda> … and BINDIR to CMAKE_INSTALL_BINDIR 20180428 12:56:45< Rhonda> But DATADIRNAME is correct because that's what in CMakeLists.txt, right? 20180428 12:57:51-!- gfgtdf [~chatzilla@x4e363c56.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20180428 13:14:09<+discordbot> I don't really know enough about CMake to be able to answer. :/ 20180428 13:30:01< Rhonda> It's fine, I'll just give it a try. It only takes … no clue how long to have a build run. xD 20180428 13:30:25< Rhonda> I'm grateful for the hints you dropped in my direction already, so don't worry. :) 20180428 13:44:33-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180428 13:52:09-!- Oebele [~quassel@143.177.58.202] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180428 14:04:47-!- Oebele [~quassel@143.177.58.202] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180428 14:30:36< irker032> wesnoth/wesnoth:master Gregory A Lundberg 092f8f325c Fix doccomment error AppVeyor: All builds passed 20180428 14:48:57-!- vn971 [~vasya@94.158.103.15] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20180428 14:50:00-!- vn971 [~vasya@94.158.103.15] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180428 14:51:33<+discordbot> @zookeeper please forward-port your UtBS changes 😐 20180428 15:08:32< Rhonda> Meh. Somehow I'm missing the locales … darn. 20180428 15:24:45< Rhonda> oh, wtf. why are they in the translations subdirectory now? 20180428 15:25:34< Rhonda> … so it doesn't use CMAKE_INSTALL_LOCALEDIR but the LOCALEDIR variable. Is that a mistake? :) 20180428 15:26:04<+discordbot> No, it's intentional. 20180428 15:26:05<+discordbot> https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/0f2b585fc5b2660fc1ddf420415e35ea8f3a587f 20180428 15:26:18< celticminstrel> Oh I forgot to sleep-nick. 20180428 15:29:13< Rhonda> Hmm, should I set PREFERENCES_DIR to .wesnoth-1.14? I guess they shouldn't get shared between versions? 20180428 15:29:45< Rhonda> … or not. Because that would mean that preferences should get set again after installing wesnoth-1.14 … 20180428 15:30:17<+discordbot> Our own builds don't share preferences across versions, so we'd prefer if downstream builds followed that practice. 20180428 15:30:58< Rhonda> So if you install both wesnoth 1.12 and wesnoth 1.14, they have different preferences dir set? 20180428 15:31:04<+discordbot> yes 20180428 15:32:13< Rhonda> Hmm, wait. If it's unset ~/.config/wesnoth is set. So I guess I rather should set it to .config/wesnoth-1.14? 20180428 15:32:16 * Rhonda goes and tries that 20180428 15:34:46<+discordbot> There is automatic preference directory path generation (compatible with the XDG Base Directory specification), but using PREFERENCES_DIR disables it. 20180428 15:34:47<+discordbot> https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/blob/master/src/filesystem_boost.cpp#L539 20180428 15:36:36-!- TheJJ [~rofl@ipbcc05d72.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 20180428 15:37:13<+discordbot> question regarding git, so I hopefully don't do something stupid: I want to stop having my local fork track the actual wesnoth repository's opengl branch(since otherwise I can't make PRs). Would the correct command to unset the remote tracking be: git branch -d -r upstream/opengl? Asking so I don't delete the actual opengl branch instead by accident. 20180428 15:37:52-!- TheJJ [~rofl@ipbcc05d72.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180428 15:37:53<+discordbot> (upstream is Wesnoth's repo, origin would be my fork) 20180428 15:39:47<+discordbot> I recommend this instead: sh git checkout opengl git branch --set-upstream-to=origin/opengl git reset --hard origin/opengl 20180428 15:40:07<+discordbot> oh, yep, that looks much safer 20180428 15:40:08<+discordbot> xD 20180428 15:41:25< Rhonda> *crossesfingers* Will know in 100 minutes if I got it now. :) 20180428 15:54:03<+discordbot> well, that's not working 20180428 15:54:06<+discordbot> new plan 20180428 15:54:07<+discordbot> https://xkcd.com/1597/ 20180428 15:55:27< celticminstrel> XD 20180428 15:55:35< celticminstrel> I hadn't see that one, must be "recent". 20180428 15:55:36<+discordbot> Too accurate. 20180428 15:58:17< vn971> Pentarctagon: git branch --unset-upstream opengl 20180428 15:58:31< vn971> or just `git branch --unset-upstream` if you're already on this branch. 20180428 15:58:45<+discordbot> it was telling me there was no upstream 20180428 15:59:05<+discordbot> also that opengl didn't exist in my fork in the first place 20180428 15:59:13< vn971> then your local branch already doesn't track anything from remote. Task done. 20180428 15:59:43<+discordbot> but I've pushed changes directly before, and hadn't changed anything yet 20180428 15:59:47< vn971> Pentarctagon: what is the problem with the current set-up? What do you miss exactly? 20180428 16:00:06<+discordbot> can 20180428 16:00:15<+discordbot> 't make PRs to the opengl branch 20180428 16:01:26< vn971> Pentarctagon: so you wanna PR to a branch? OK, that's a bit unusual, but surely doable. If you don't care about erasing "opengl" branch in your own github repository, push your changes to your "opengl" branch on GH. 20180428 16:01:36< vn971> and start tracking it. 20180428 16:02:06< vn971> then, in github interface, create a pull from your opengl branch to our main opengl branch. 20180428 16:02:07<+discordbot> well, I've already deleted and recloned a new fork, so... 20180428 16:02:30< vn971> Pentarctagon: ok. but it won't help really, you still have to do what I wrote. 20180428 16:03:04<+discordbot> I mean, I erased my entire github repo, so I kind of did that 20180428 16:03:10< vn971> @Pentarctagon: you should push your branch anywhere to your repo, and create a PR from your github branch to wesnoth/wesnoth "opengl" branch. 20180428 16:03:43< vn971> @Pentarctagon: you erased your github data. Now you need to push your local changes to your github repo. 20180428 16:03:44< Ravana_> yes 20180428 16:04:00<+discordbot> and now git branch -r shows "origin/opengl", so that's what I wanted 20180428 16:04:11<+discordbot> rather than "upstream/opengl" 20180428 16:04:12< vn971> to a branch. Then PR. Try it and tell if there'll be problems. 20180428 16:04:44< vn971> @Pentarctagon: ok, if everything works, good then. Problem solved, on to the next one.:) 20180428 16:04:53<+discordbot> lol, yep 20180428 16:21:24< Rhonda> Yay, only the "wesnoth-icon.png" missing which was formerly below icons/ 20180428 16:21:45< Rhonda> Guess I'll settle for data/core/images/wesnoth-icon.png 20180428 16:26:56-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-54-167-8-184.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180428 16:26:57< travis-ci> Pentarctagon/wesnoth#534 (opengl - 92b37d6 : pentarctagon): The build has errored. 20180428 16:26:57< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/Pentarctagon/wesnoth/builds/372445319 20180428 16:26:58-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-54-167-8-184.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has left #wesnoth-dev [] 20180428 16:30:02< irker032> wesnoth: Charles Dang website:master ba532b9d00ff / start/1.14/template.html: Improved the 1.14 announcement text (WIP) https://github.com/wesnoth/website/commit/ba532b9d00ff8d5d3e02561f94dc03a632dd10c0 20180428 16:30:07<+discordbot> @shadowm not done yet, but that's pass 1 20180428 16:30:54< celticminstrel> "probably most notable of all" 20180428 16:31:09<+discordbot> hm? 20180428 16:31:14< celticminstrel> Oooh and you added an exclamation mark! 20180428 16:31:19<+discordbot> what? 20180428 16:31:37<+discordbot> oh 20180428 16:31:38<+discordbot> that bit 20180428 16:31:44< celticminstrel> The exclamation mark might be slightly excessive... 20180428 16:32:01< celticminstrel> And the opening of that paragraph feels overly wordy, but I guess it's not too bad. 20180428 16:32:37<+discordbot> it's meant to be 20180428 16:32:44< celticminstrel> I think the old phrasing was better with respect to mouse support on Apple devices. 20180428 16:33:01< celticminstrel> "various [...] issues [...] are no more" doesn't seem like a good way to say it. 20180428 16:33:19< celticminstrel> Argh, after this GitHub stops showing the word diff. 20180428 16:33:40<+discordbot> there is a doubled since in the first sentence. 20180428 16:33:57<+discordbot> ah thanks 20180428 16:34:18<+discordbot> celmin there's a lot of stuff in here you need to comment on 20180428 16:34:35<+discordbot> or well at least one thng 20180428 16:34:38<+discordbot>

[TODO celmin can probably tell us about "Several built-in predefined dialogs are now exposed to Lua, including the storyscreen"]

20180428 16:34:44< celticminstrel> But does it enhance readability for people with color-blindness. 20180428 16:36:13< celticminstrel> I think I also prefer the old version describing the time-of-day variants for villages, though the new version has its charm too, maybe some mix of the two is best. 20180428 16:36:46< celticminstrel> What's a tag, anyway? 20180428 16:37:03< celticminstrel> The things it's used for don't look like citations to me. 20180428 16:37:17<+discordbot> The cite element represents a reference to a creative work. It must include the title of the work or the name of the author(person, people or organization) or an URL reference, or a reference in abbreviated form as per the conventions used for the addition of citation metadata. 20180428 16:37:28< celticminstrel> Maybe ask @beetlenaut if that's an accurate description of the campaign? 20180428 16:37:34< celticminstrel> I see. Interesting. 20180428 16:37:41< celticminstrel> Alright then I guess it's used correctly. 20180428 16:38:22<+discordbot> @jyrkive "Our own builds don't share preferences across versions, so we'd prefer if downstream builds followed that practice." -- but then why is this not the default on POSIX platforms? 20180428 16:38:25< celticminstrel> Heh, "stunning" portraits. 20180428 16:38:48< celticminstrel> I don't see the point of removing "further" but it doesn't really hurt. 20180428 16:38:56< celticminstrel> Northern Rebirth is misspelled. 20180428 16:39:15<+discordbot> ah yes 20180428 16:39:32<+discordbot> Sure, downstreams can (but won't necessarily do) override the preferences path (but then you're no longer using the XDG layout), but most people building Wesnoth won't. 20180428 16:39:33<+discordbot> and yes 20180428 16:39:34< celticminstrel> I'm just looking at the diff ATM not the whole file. 20180428 16:39:36<+discordbot> they are stunning 20180428 16:40:00<+discordbot> we should say by whom they are too... since we mentioned West 20180428 16:40:33<+discordbot> @jyrkive Also I believe the Steam build for Linux uses the default config. 20180428 16:41:20<+discordbot> @shadowm As far as I can see, version-specific userdata directory is the default on POSIX platforms. 20180428 16:41:21<+discordbot> https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/blob/master/src/filesystem_boost.cpp#L598 20180428 16:41:30<+discordbot> User config. 20180428 16:41:36<+discordbot> I know user data is version-dependent. 20180428 16:41:50< irker032> wesnoth/wesnoth:opengl Martin Hrubý (hrubymar10) f0497b15ea Fix Xcode project after 3e96a3aa2c357c53 AppVeyor: All builds passed 20180428 16:41:53< celticminstrel> Personally I'd include the implicit "that" here: "signalling you no longer intend to keep playing". 20180428 16:42:01< celticminstrel> It works either way, but I think I prefer it with the "that". 20180428 16:42:12<+discordbot> My Steam build is a bit confused because I did some weird crap using symlinks, but it has the config dir right: /home/shadowm/.config/wesnoth 20180428 16:42:23<+discordbot> No version marker as you can see. 20180428 16:42:27<+discordbot> The PREFERENCES_DIR CMake variable (that Rhonda was asking about) refers to the userdata directory. 20180428 16:42:48< celticminstrel> @Vultraz - The bit about wconsole is pretty dumb, because the installer creates that shortcut for you. 20180428 16:42:57<+discordbot> I didn't write that 20180428 16:43:10< celticminstrel> I know, but you seem to be the one working on this right now, so. 20180428 16:43:16<+discordbot> It does seem a bit overly technical.. 20180428 16:43:34<+discordbot> @mattsc

[TODO mattsc can probably tell us about "Many expansions and some simplifications to the specification of AI parameter in WML and the Lua AI API"]

20180428 16:43:39< celticminstrel> I dunno about overly technical, but it's suggesting you do something that has already been done. 20180428 16:43:49< celticminstrel> I can probably help with the AI one too BTW. 20180428 16:43:58<+discordbot> I didn't remember whether the installer did create the shortcut and hoped vultraz would be the one to raise that objection instead of a macOS user. :p 20180428 16:44:02<+discordbot> If the default installer adds --wconsole we have a problem 20180428 16:44:03< celticminstrel> Since I was the one who implemented most of it. :P 20180428 16:44:10<+discordbot> No vultraz. 20180428 16:44:14< celticminstrel> @Vultraz, the default installer creates two shortcuts. 20180428 16:44:22< celticminstrel> Well, three. 20180428 16:44:36< celticminstrel> A "Battle for Wesnoth" shortcut, a "Battle for Wesnoth (with console)" shortcut, and a "Map Editor" shortcut. 20180428 16:44:44<+discordbot> (also celmin is no longer a macOS user. He's now a GLORIOUS WINDOWS USER.) 20180428 16:44:53< celticminstrel> I'm still a Mac user. 20180428 16:44:55<+discordbot> Glorious my ass. 20180428 16:44:59< celticminstrel> I'm just also a Windows user. 20180428 16:45:00<+discordbot> Windows is garbage. 20180428 16:45:11< celticminstrel> Windows 10 in particular is garbage. 20180428 16:45:16<+discordbot> 👺 20180428 16:45:24<+discordbot> Anyway here's why I was confused: I remember asking loonycyborg to create a shortcut with --wconsole but I also remember Vultraz asking for redundant shortcuts to be removed. 20180428 16:45:49<+discordbot> The first was during my administration and the second wasn't IIRC. 20180428 16:46:16< celticminstrel> I can't identify what Vultraz's emoji is actually supposed to be, even though I can see it... to me it looks like a tengu mask, but would they really add that to emoji? 20180428 16:46:38<+discordbot> @jyrkive Are you sure it refers just to userdata? It's called PREFERENCES_DIR after all. The preferences file goes in user config, not in user data. 20180428 16:47:01<+discordbot> (Unless user data = user config, which is what the SCons compile option does and also the legacy --config-dir switch.) 20180428 16:47:16<+discordbot> it still makes a shortcut for console 20180428 16:47:31<+discordbot> @Vultraz Then rephrase the bit about 20180428 16:47:38<+discordbot> dangit 20180428 16:47:52<+discordbot> @Vultraz Then rephrase the bit about --wconsole to mention the existing shortcut instead. 20180428 16:48:08< celticminstrel> @Vultraz, the preset dialogs for the TODO note are documented here: https://wiki.wesnoth.org/LuaWML/Display#wesnoth.show_menu 20180428 16:48:16<+discordbot> (Also for the curious, I have to press Alt Gr+} to get a backtick. That means pressing a key adjacent to Enter.) 20180428 16:48:24< celticminstrel> There are five of them. 20180428 16:48:38<+discordbot> I mentioned them already? 20180428 16:48:48< celticminstrel> But the TODO note is still there? 20180428 16:49:01<+discordbot> Is it? 20180428 16:49:13<+discordbot> it's not? 20180428 16:49:16<+discordbot> I don't see it 20180428 16:49:24<+discordbot> It's in my copy at least. 20180428 16:49:36< celticminstrel> It was in the version Vultraz just pushed? 20180428 16:49:36<+discordbot> I hope Vultraz read the whole thing and dropped it along the way because I wrote: 20180428 16:49:54<+discordbot> "[...] invoke certain stock dialogs used all across the game UI (menu popups, confirmation prompts, information pop-ups, the [message] UI, and the story screen UI) [...]"0 20180428 16:50:16< celticminstrel> It's there. 20180428 16:50:19<+discordbot> I'm only getting his copy just now. 20180428 16:50:23< celticminstrel> But the TODO wasn't removed. 20180428 16:50:42< celticminstrel> So basically, the TODO can just be removed, @Vultraz 20180428 16:50:54<+discordbot> I see no such todo 20180428 16:50:58<+discordbot> I see it. 20180428 16:51:02< celticminstrel> ... 20180428 16:51:02<+discordbot> Line 148. 20180428 16:51:04<+discordbot> @shadowm So, user config and userdata directories are separate by default on POSIX platforms? 20180428 16:51:07< celticminstrel> Vultraz just search "celmin" 20180428 16:51:10<+discordbot> Yes @jyrkive 20180428 16:51:11<+discordbot> oh 20180428 16:51:12<+discordbot> I thought they were the same, like on Windows. 20180428 16:51:14<+discordbot> wrong place 20180428 16:51:17< celticminstrel> You even pasted it here a little while ago. 20180428 16:51:28<+discordbot> @jyrkive They're not since 1.7.x or 1.9.x. 20180428 16:51:29< celticminstrel> @jyrkive, they're not separate on Mac. 20180428 16:51:34<+discordbot> I see, thanks for the explanation. 20180428 16:51:35< celticminstrel> Only Linux. 20180428 16:52:21< irker032> wesnoth: Charles Dang website:master 36db2cc50b09 / start/1.14/template.html: 1.14 Announcement: immediate fixups based on feedback https://github.com/wesnoth/website/commit/36db2cc50b09feaa8af9c9cabfa4a662b790d7de 20180428 16:52:58< celticminstrel> "most stable" 20180428 16:53:05< celticminstrel> Dangerous statement there. :P 20180428 16:53:07<+discordbot> Marketroid speech. 20180428 16:53:13< celticminstrel> Sure I guess. 20180428 16:53:13<+discordbot> It's kind of mandatory. 20180428 16:53:35<+discordbot> Especially coming from Vultraz, which is the whole reason he got the Community Manager role. 20180428 16:53:46< celticminstrel> Gasp, LordBob actually has a name that's not Bob. :O 20180428 16:53:56<+discordbot> He's good at sugarcoating the dark truth. 20180428 16:54:05< celticminstrel> Haha 20180428 16:54:07<+discordbot> Or used to, anyway. 20180428 16:55:33< celticminstrel> He got worse at it with time? :S 20180428 16:56:07<+discordbot> The amount of time that this announcement is taking is a good measurement of the deterioration of that former quality of his, yes. 20180428 16:56:20<+discordbot> On that note, I won't be looking at it until a few hours later. 20180428 17:11:39-!- gfgtdf [~chatzilla@x4e363c56.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180428 17:13:38<+discordbot> It’s taking a long time for various reasons 20180428 17:22:11<+discordbot> Get a Community Manager. 20180428 17:22:48<+discordbot> That's the only advice I can give you since you're obviously spreading yourself too thin. 20180428 17:27:28<+discordbot> @Vultraz gfgtdf just linked me https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/aeb33fb7629451d4fe475586f5fa6472ba75b7c5 . What is this. 20180428 17:28:01<+discordbot> You realize that making a campaign work in multiplayer requires more than just engine support, right? 20180428 17:28:11<+discordbot> I mean, you are a campaign maker yourself. I shouldn't need to be saying this. 20180428 17:28:39<+discordbot> Well. At the very least you can play SP with spectators. 20180428 17:28:54<+discordbot> There was a way to forcefully disable this, right? I'm going to need it because I don't want to get spurious bug reports for my own campaigns. 20180428 17:29:08<+discordbot> No 20180428 17:29:37<+discordbot> type= doesn’t matter since this explicitly shows singleplayer campaigns 20180428 17:30:55< gfgtdf> to be fair it's quite likely that it will work in mp, (if other players have it installed, i think require_scenario dfaults to true for campaigns but not sure), that is if your campaign i written oos-save 20180428 17:32:02<+discordbot> It’s also possibly, but I have not confirmed, but as far as I know it should work, that one player can play the player and one can play a different enemy each scenario 20180428 17:32:03<+discordbot> Well this throws a wrench on all potential fixes/changes for mainline campaigns in 1.14. 20180428 17:32:44<+discordbot> (Context for vultraz: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/pull/2976) 20180428 17:33:34<+discordbot> Oh no 20180428 17:44:00<+discordbot> Can I pretend I don't know this 20180428 17:44:50< celticminstrel> I think playing SP campaigns with spectators is in fact the only thing you could do with that? 20180428 17:45:05< celticminstrel> Since SP campaigns don't have multiple human sides, generally. 20180428 17:46:16< Ravana_> can give ai sides to other people too 20180428 17:46:43<+discordbot> what ravana said 20180428 17:46:47< gfgtdf> side controllers shodul be locked by default. 20180428 17:46:59<+discordbot> sounds like it'd be more that there's nothing stopping people from doing normal MP things that could go horribly wrong 20180428 17:47:03< gfgtdf> unless someone changes the campaigns wml. 20180428 17:47:16< celticminstrel> IMO that commit was a mistake though. 20180428 17:47:49< gfgtdf> basicially all mp settings are locked by default for campaigns afaik. 20180428 17:48:16<+discordbot> I'm sure there was some good reason for the commit to exist and it wasn't just for the sake of doing it. 20180428 17:48:27<+discordbot> I mean. 20180428 17:48:33< celticminstrel> I'm assuming it was just for the sake of doing it. 20180428 17:48:38<+discordbot> I saw no reason for it to continue to be so 20180428 17:48:40< celticminstrel> I mean the commit message strongly implies this too. 20180428 17:48:52<+discordbot> Vultraz thanks that basically confirms that it was for the sake of doing it. 20180428 17:48:54< celticminstrel> Well the obvious reason is right there in the name "single-player". 20180428 17:48:57<+discordbot> 🤦 20180428 17:49:04< celticminstrel> I hope that's a facepalm. 20180428 17:49:26< gfgtdf> it' 20180428 17:49:28<+discordbot> No, it is Patrick. 20180428 17:49:42<+discordbot> oh wait, you don't get memes 20180428 17:49:44<+discordbot> nevermind 20180428 17:49:54< celticminstrel> Sometimes I get memes, but yeah never assume. 20180428 17:50:43<+discordbot> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/259976436490829825/439845934575255553/sp_MP.PNG 20180428 17:50:47<+discordbot> Seems like every side is playable. 20180428 17:50:59< gfgtdf> oh? 20180428 17:51:05< gfgtdf> are you uswing debug mode? 20180428 17:51:08< gfgtdf> using* 20180428 17:51:13< celticminstrel> Well that's an excellent reason to not allow it. 20180428 17:51:16<+discordbot> Not that I know of. 20180428 17:51:41<+discordbot> 🤔 20180428 17:51:56<+discordbot> screams into her pillow 20180428 17:52:01<+discordbot> I mean, you get that screen between scenarios 20180428 17:52:05<+discordbot> so you can always reassign players 20180428 17:52:07< celticminstrel> IMO? Disable it again for 1.14.1. 20180428 17:52:17<+discordbot> but COME on let's be realistic 20180428 17:52:20<+discordbot> no one plays MP campaigns 20180428 17:52:34<+discordbot> COME on let's be realistic. 20180428 17:52:36< celticminstrel> Yeah? Maybe that's because campaigns don't actually work in MP? 20180428 17:52:37<+discordbot> You are not being reasonable. 20180428 17:52:47<+discordbot> People actually try to play LoW on 1.12 all the time. 20180428 17:52:49<+discordbot> Are there MP Campaigns? I mean good ones? 20180428 17:52:53<+discordbot> Not really 20180428 17:52:58< celticminstrel> IMO? Pretend this was an accident and disable it again for 1.14.1. 20180428 17:53:20<+discordbot> Do we know for sure it doesn't work? 20180428 17:53:23< celticminstrel> LoW is probably not a good example of an MP Campaign TBH, an MP Campaign should be one that's designed from the start for MP. 20180428 17:53:37< celticminstrel> It's not really a question of whether it works, Vultraz. 20180428 17:54:00<+discordbot> Pretty sure it is? 20180428 17:54:01< celticminstrel> You need extra work to make a campaign MP-viable. Sure, it may kinda work anyway, but there's no guarantee of that. 20180428 17:54:22< celticminstrel> You've basically opened the door for anyone to play any campaign in MP. 20180428 17:54:24< celticminstrel> It might work for some. 20180428 17:54:32< celticminstrel> It certainly can't be assumed to work for all.. 20180428 17:54:39< gfgtdf> Bitron: hm ye just tested, i also get those options, i really thought we disabled those by default. 20180428 17:54:44< celticminstrel> Particularly user-made campaigns. 20180428 17:54:57<+discordbot> I thought the whole damn point of the SP/MP unification in 1.13.0 was to enable stuff like this 20180428 17:55:09< celticminstrel> If people do want to try it they can always start the game in debug mode. 20180428 17:55:40< vn971> I casually wonder what's the inclusion policy for maps BTW. 20180428 17:55:42-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-54-197-150-232.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180428 17:55:43< travis-ci> Pentarctagon/wesnoth#1 (master - e9fba33 : pentarctagon): The build passed. 20180428 17:55:44< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/Pentarctagon/wesnoth/builds/372462692 20180428 17:55:44-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-54-197-150-232.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has left #wesnoth-dev [] 20180428 17:55:55<+discordbot> The changes someone would realize that was possibly are fractional 20180428 17:55:57< vn971> cause Afterlife seems to be pretty popular nowadays.:P :) 20180428 17:56:02< celticminstrel> I don't think SP/MP unification means that everything would work in both. 20180428 17:56:31<+discordbot> What, potentially, would NOT work? 20180428 17:56:32< vn971> I mean, what's the policy to include maps as built-in maps in wesnoth client. 20180428 17:56:32< celticminstrel> Yeah it might be fractional, but you could advertise it, or even add a preference instead. 20180428 17:56:40<+discordbot> aren't all probabilities fractional? 20180428 17:56:44< celticminstrel> There are probably tons of things that could potentially not work. 20180428 17:56:49< celticminstrel> True Pentarctagon. 20180428 17:56:56<+discordbot> Such as? 20180428 17:56:58< celticminstrel> I assume he meant negligible or such. 20180428 17:57:10< vn971> ok bad timing for my question. 20180428 17:57:13< celticminstrel> Such as pretty much anything done in Lua. 20180428 17:57:35<+discordbot> Are you saying Lua cannot be used in proper MP campaigns? 20180428 17:57:49< celticminstrel> More specifically, anything where you'd need to use the sync choice framework. 20180428 17:57:53<+discordbot> What happens if a player takes control over micro_ai controlled units? 20180428 17:58:13< celticminstrel> Someone writing a SP campaign is not going to use the sync choice framework. It's not meant to be played in MP, so why bother with the extra effort? 20180428 17:58:14< gfgtdf> celmin: require_campaign defaults to true iirc, so whethe rits lua or wml lua shouldnt really be a problem. 20180428 17:58:30< celticminstrel> I have no idea what you're saying. 20180428 17:58:35<+discordbot> Or moves units that or not supposed to move and event's filtering location fail because of that 20180428 17:58:54< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: the sync choice framework also applies to replays though so you shodul also use it in ms (unless you don't care abotu replays) 20180428 17:58:56< celticminstrel> What I'm saying is someone writing a SP campaign is not going to take care to avoid potential out-of-sync errors because they don't matter. 20180428 17:59:17<+discordbot> I think the real question here is: If this is left enabled, how likely are bug reports for this to be fixed? 20180428 17:59:26< celticminstrel> Well, TBH, it shouldn't apply to replays IMO. 20180428 17:59:43<+discordbot> I hate the fact OOS errors are so easy to trigger 20180428 17:59:49< gfgtdf> huh? mp oos and replay too are realyl the same thing. of coruise it applies to replays. 20180428 18:00:00<+discordbot> It speaks to a deficiency in design 20180428 18:00:05< celticminstrel> There's not really any reason for them to be the same thing. 20180428 18:00:15<+discordbot> there's no reason to enable something so people can report bugs, if it's unlikely anyone's going to fix those bugs 20180428 18:00:29<+discordbot> It depends on what bugs arise 20180428 18:00:44<+discordbot> @Vultraz Multiplayer is not easy to implement reliably in any game. 20180428 18:00:52<+discordbot> We are going in circles here. 20180428 18:00:59<+discordbot> I say that as the lead programmer of the multiplayer mobile game I'm developing at work. 20180428 18:01:13< celticminstrel> ^ 20180428 18:01:17< celticminstrel> MP is hard. 20180428 18:01:21<+discordbot> Fair enough 20180428 18:01:47<+discordbot> I say we leave this and see what happens. 20180428 18:02:00< celticminstrel> Well obviously we're leaving it, the builds are already up. 20180428 18:02:11<+discordbot> Unless someone tells me that means I can't deploy map changes in stable. 20180428 18:02:28< celticminstrel> Uh. 20180428 18:02:51< celticminstrel> I think map changes are safe even for MP? The map is part of the scenario WML, which is sent across the network. 20180428 18:02:56< celticminstrel> If I understand correctly. 20180428 18:03:00<+discordbot> I see. 20180428 18:03:03<+discordbot> alright 20180428 18:03:11< celticminstrel> gfgtdf: That's correct, right? 20180428 18:03:13< gfgtdf> ye 20180428 18:03:47<+discordbot> I suppose I should have actually tried to play a SP campaign in MP 20180428 18:03:52<+discordbot> >.> 20180428 18:04:01< celticminstrel> Yeah you should've at least played through AToTB in MP before enabling it. 20180428 18:04:05<+discordbot> I did confirm you could start AtS S1 in MP without any problems,but that's about it 20180428 18:04:07< celticminstrel> Or AOI. 20180428 18:04:25< celticminstrel> Since TB is pretty simple, it might not be a good example. 20180428 18:04:28<+discordbot> and that you would correctly be prompted to download AtS to join 20180428 18:04:56< gfgtdf> i tought AtS was not yet ported to 1.14 ? 20180428 18:05:06<+discordbot> It is not 20180428 18:06:08<+discordbot> In any case, I think this is a feature we should actively attempt to allow, and at least see what issues arise so we can gauge how difficult they would be to fix. 20180428 18:06:20<+discordbot> SP campaigns in MP, that is. 20180428 18:07:00<+discordbot> If it blows up the universe, we can disable it later. 20180428 18:07:03< celticminstrel> I think it's pointless. Even if SP campaigns do work perfectly in MP, I think they'll still require changes if you want to do anything other than play them with observers. 20180428 18:07:22<+discordbot> I've said multiple times you can assign other people to the AI sides 20180428 18:07:31< celticminstrel> Yeah, that's the problem. 20180428 18:07:34<+discordbot> Why? 20180428 18:07:40< celticminstrel> AI sides are not meant to be played. 20180428 18:07:46< celticminstrel> They're not meant to win. 20180428 18:07:50<+discordbot> Oh, that's what @Bitron meant... 20180428 18:07:55< celticminstrel> They're essentially set up to lose. 20180428 18:08:12<+discordbot> 🤔 20180428 18:08:23<+discordbot> I had not considered this 20180428 18:08:24< celticminstrel> I wish you'd stop using emoji that just show up as a box. 20180428 18:08:38<+discordbot> I can't help what emoji your platform displays 20180428 18:08:41<+discordbot> challenge mode: win a campaign playing against humans 20180428 18:08:50< celticminstrel> It's not so much about platform as font. 20180428 18:09:06-!- sevu [~Shiki@p54855909.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180428 18:09:11<+discordbot> I'd think as an apple user you'd have all emoji 20180428 18:09:18-!- sevu [~Shiki@p54855909.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180428 18:09:30< celticminstrel> I undoubtedly would if I were on Sierra or whatever it's called. 20180428 18:09:38<+discordbot> High Sierra? 20180428 18:09:43< celticminstrel> But Lion only has an older version of the emoji font. 20180428 18:09:49< celticminstrel> Which shouldn't surprise anyone. 20180428 18:09:59<+discordbot> Oh 20180428 18:10:00<+discordbot> Right 20180428 18:10:03< celticminstrel> Maybe it's High Sierra, sure. 20180428 18:10:05<+discordbot> Yes, that's what I meant. I can also imagine that players who are new, which I expect to come due to the steam release, don't really now that singleplayer campaigns are really just singleplayer campaigns and expect them to work perfect or ad least good in multiplayer, which would probably result in tons of balancing complains, because they are all but balanced fairly for human vs human plays. 20180428 18:10:12<+discordbot> you're still on ancient macOS... 20180428 18:10:32< celticminstrel> I intend to get a new Mac soon™ but... 20180428 18:10:46<+discordbot> get an iPad at least 20180428 18:10:48< celticminstrel> There are no good Mac models right now so I can't. 20180428 18:10:53< celticminstrel> I don't want an iPad. 20180428 18:10:59<+discordbot> But an iPad is so convenient 20180428 18:11:56< celticminstrel> But anyway, someone should make a simpe 3-4 scenario MP campaign. Maybe 4 sides in a 2v2 setup or something. 20180428 18:12:01< celticminstrel> ^simple 20180428 18:12:21< celticminstrel> Like a proof of concept. Then put it in mainline as a better example then LoW. 20180428 18:12:29< celticminstrel> LoW as an MP campaign is really terrible. 20180428 18:12:35< celticminstrel> ^than 20180428 18:12:40<+discordbot> Do you think we should discard LoW? 20180428 18:12:45< celticminstrel> I don't know. 20180428 18:12:53< irker032> wesnoth/wesnoth:addon_manager_add_1_15 V N 87e1caa339 addon_manager: add 1.15.x server AppVeyor: All builds passed 20180428 18:13:10< celticminstrel> AIUI the MP campaign has Kalenz, Landar, Chantal, and possible one other as distinct sides, right? 20180428 18:13:36< gfgtdf> yes 20180428 18:13:39< celticminstrel> Are those characters all present in every scenario? If the answer is no, I'd question the wisdom of making it an MP campaign. 20180428 18:14:05< celticminstrel> Though you could still make it work by having an underline substitute for scenarios where they're not involved. 20180428 18:14:09< gfgtdf> no, the nuimber players changes though the campaign, it has 5 'chapter' whithing each the number of players stays constant. 20180428 18:14:10< celticminstrel> ^underling 20180428 18:14:22< celticminstrel> Ah, so that's why it's divided into chapters? 20180428 18:14:27< celticminstrel> Hmm. 20180428 18:15:05< celticminstrel> Okay, maybe that's not quite so bad then. I'd question any sort of automatic progression between chapters in the MP campaign though. 20180428 18:15:24< celticminstrel> I mean, I'm sure it can be done. 20180428 18:15:31< celticminstrel> It just seems a bit questionable. 20180428 18:16:03< celticminstrel> Of course, not having automatic progression would mean you start each chapter with no units, right? That could also be a problem. 20180428 18:16:43< celticminstrel> Although there's the PersistenceWML stuff coming into play here IIRC, but which side stores the persistence, and what if you start chapter 2 with a completely different set of people? 20180428 18:16:47< gfgtdf> yes it has automatic progression (well it shows you the mp setup screen that lets you wait for anoter player, but most poeple just continiue immidiateley without waiting thatis asinging one player to two sides) 20180428 18:17:19< celticminstrel> If there are observers you could also assign one at that point, I assume? 20180428 18:17:25< gfgtdf> yes 20180428 18:18:15< celticminstrel> Anyway I don't think it was a good idea to make LoW an MP campaign, but it doesn't sound like it's so bad that it needs to be dropped? 20180428 18:18:32< celticminstrel> Still, we should mainline one or two short MP campaigns that are designed for MP from the ground up IMO. 20180428 18:18:56< celticminstrel> IMO there should be both competitive and cooperative options (LoW is cooperative so I'd prioritize a competitive one first). 20180428 18:19:02< gfgtdf> i i'd realyl leik to see a real mainline mp campaign, i also made a bugtracker iissue for it iirc. 20180428 18:19:26< gfgtdf> LoW is also competitive ion the last chapter where Kanez Fights landar, but that part isnt really complete 20180428 18:19:27< celticminstrel> I might be willing to put in some work on it if someone actually pitches a good idea. 20180428 18:20:05< celticminstrel> Like I said, something that can be done in about 3-4 scenarios. I'm not interested in making a long campaign for this. 20180428 18:20:12<+discordbot> Could such a theoretical MP campaign also be playable in SP? Ie, in MP it's two players, in SP it's 1 player 1 AI ally? 20180428 18:20:19<+discordbot> Yes. 20180428 18:20:24< celticminstrel> Should be possible, yeah. 20180428 18:20:34<+discordbot> Except AI allies suck. 20180428 18:20:37< celticminstrel> Heh. 20180428 18:20:45< gfgtdf> well that's be hard to banalce and probalby out uit into the same situation as Low is currently 20180428 18:20:48<+discordbot> You've played IftU and AtS Vultraz so you know all about it. 20180428 18:21:00< celticminstrel> I wouldn't worry about that possibility too much. 20180428 18:21:04<+discordbot> That's why in AtS E3 I decided to use human players for the big NR-style battles. 20180428 18:22:03< celticminstrel> I mean, the priority would be making it work well in MP; if some small tweaks can make it work better in SP, then fine, but otherwise I wouldn't bother. 20180428 18:22:14< celticminstrel> (Better in SP without affecting MP viability.) 20180428 18:22:25< celticminstrel> Is it possible to make a campaign show up only in MP? 20180428 18:22:32<+discordbot> I currently develop a MP campaign which is designed to be played with 2 players constantly. In case of a singleplayer playthrough, the first player takes both MP sides as one, like in the first scenario (or chapter, never played beyond the first) of LoW. 20180428 18:22:33< gfgtdf> yes 20180428 18:22:53< gfgtdf> add type=mp, just putting it into #ifdef MULTIPLAYER is not enough. 20180428 18:23:10< celticminstrel> I'd recommend doing that for most MP campaigns; someone who wants to play it single-player anyway would still be able to by starting a "local MP game". 20180428 18:24:00< celticminstrel> Great, so there already exists at least one user-made MP campaign! 20180428 18:24:20<+discordbot> It is far from being done, unfortunately. 20180428 18:24:26< celticminstrel> Ahhh. 20180428 18:24:34< celticminstrel> So it's only under development. 20180428 18:24:40<+discordbot> yes. 20180428 18:25:28<+discordbot> It includes non-mainline units as well, Vampires and Thelians. 20180428 18:26:13< celticminstrel> Maybe a short elves vs saurian MP campaign would be nice... set before TRoW... 20180428 18:27:02< celticminstrel> Though there are so few saurian units... 20180428 18:32:48< zookeeper> for what it's worth, we sketched out an orc+undead MP campaign with kwandulin which even has a bunch of stuff already done. 20180428 18:33:05< celticminstrel> Nice. 20180428 18:33:19< celticminstrel> Cooperative or competitive? (Or both?) 20180428 18:33:23< zookeeper> co-op 20180428 18:34:50< celticminstrel> I think for a competitive campaign I'd really want a full branching tree based on who wins each scenario. That doesn't necessarily mean two different second scenarios, four third scenarios, eight fourth scenarios... but that would be the most extreme case, certainly. 20180428 18:35:13< celticminstrel> It's another reason to keep it short though. 20180428 18:35:20< irker032> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master 1af08fb58ea5 / src/ai/game_info.hpp: AI/Game Info: formatting/forward declaration cleanup https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/1af08fb58ea57055c15c5a9da750ce17d99873a8 20180428 18:35:23< irker032> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master 78e8ac51d7ef / src/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Fixed Boost header deprecation warning on 1.67 and later https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/78e8ac51d7ef0b70c28c279b4a0a292d23fc4fbb 20180428 18:35:35< zookeeper> celticminstrel, yes, certainly. 20180428 18:35:45<+discordbot> Dunno why I didn't notice that warning until today 🤔 20180428 18:35:53 * zookeeper tries to find the thread from last year where MP campaign design was discussed 20180428 18:35:55< celticminstrel> A co-op campaign wouldn't have that consideration. 20180428 18:36:39< celticminstrel> I'm not really interested in writing an MP campaign TBH; but as I said earlier I might be interested in creating one if someone else does the writing. 20180428 18:36:52< celticminstrel> Note that I mean writing plot, not code. Just in case that was unclear. 20180428 18:36:58< celticminstrel> (Plot and dialogue.) 20180428 18:38:46<+discordbot> what the FUCK it's 5:38 AM 20180428 18:38:47<+discordbot> HOW 20180428 18:38:50< celticminstrel> XD 20180428 18:38:54<+discordbot> O_O 20180428 18:39:14<+discordbot> I literally just looked at the clock and it was maybe 3... 20180428 18:39:35< gfgtdf> zookeeper: https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=46801 20180428 18:39:39< celticminstrel> Maybe I'll post on the forum about an MP campaign. There are lots of wannabe writers after all, right? Mind you, not all of those are good, but... 20180428 18:39:59< zookeeper> gfgtdf, yeah, just found it. more of it was discussed in here than i remembered, apparently. 20180428 18:41:38< zookeeper> celticminstrel, i might suggest just directly asking kwandulin if all you want to do is implement, not write. at least to check out if it's a potential campaign that strikes your fancy and if he's willing to share. 20180428 18:41:47< celticminstrel> Sorry what? 20180428 18:41:59< celticminstrel> Are you implying Kwandulin has tons of ideas? 20180428 18:42:12< celticminstrel> And thus would be a good choice as the writer? 20180428 18:42:19< zookeeper> no, i'm referring to the thing i said 10 minutes ago. 20180428 18:42:27< celticminstrel> Oh. 20180428 18:42:35< celticminstrel> But didn't you say that was a co-op campaign? 20180428 18:42:45< celticminstrel> I wanted to try a competitive one. 20180428 18:42:55< zookeeper> oh, right, okay. 20180428 18:43:01< celticminstrel> I guess I didn't actually say that before, whoops. 20180428 18:43:14< celticminstrel> No wonder we were confused. 20180428 18:47:45< APic> xD 20180428 18:49:28<+discordbot> @zookeeper you still in favour with this tweaks: https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=46460 20180428 18:55:07< zookeeper> @Bitron, well, i don't recall any reason why i wouldn't be 20180428 18:57:24<+discordbot> Oh, I guess irc doesn't delete posts once they are posted? I deleted in in discord because I thought it is somewhat off topic. However, what do I need to do to push it through and get it changed? 20180428 18:57:49<+discordbot> Releasing a 1.14.0 for iPad. 20180428 18:58:11<+discordbot> @Bitron It's not possible. IRC doesn't support message deletion. 20180428 18:58:17< celticminstrel> Yeah, not only does IRC delete posts, it doesn't even give us any indication that it has been deleted. 20180428 18:58:20<+discordbot> @sinda 👍 20180428 18:58:33< celticminstrel> It's not possible to delete them, sure; but the bot could notify us when a message has been deleted. 20180428 18:58:45< celticminstrel> ^not delete posts 20180428 18:58:52<+discordbot> impossible 20180428 18:58:55<+discordbot> it's just a pipe 20180428 18:58:55<+discordbot> Good to know. I will keep it in mind. 20180428 18:59:12< celticminstrel> Uh, what Vultraz? 20180428 18:59:21< celticminstrel> If it were just a pipe I'm pretty sure it wouldn't work. 20180428 19:00:23< celticminstrel> There's obviously something in the Discord protocol for deleting messages. The bot obviously needs to handle the Discord protocol since it's connected to a Discord server. It shouldn't be too hard for it to receive a "message was deleted" packet and print out a nice "this message was deleted" message on the IRC side. 20180428 19:00:33<+discordbot> However, what do I need to do to push it through and get it changed? I didn't mean the discord post, by the way. I meant the time line changes. 20180428 19:00:35< celticminstrel> The hard part would just be deciding how to announce it. 20180428 19:01:16-!- Bhoren [~Bhoren_wh@2a01:e0a:c:2150:3180:6cf4:11e9:c58f] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180428 19:01:20<+discordbot> Alright, then the bot just doesn't 20180428 19:01:27< celticminstrel> Exactly. 20180428 19:01:57< celticminstrel> Does Discord support a /me command? Because if so the bot also isn't handling that correctly. 20180428 19:02:11< celticminstrel> It's passing it through as a regular message. 20180428 19:02:42< celticminstrel> From what I've heard it doesn't handle it properly in reverse either (IRC actions transmitted to Discord). 20180428 19:03:06<+discordbot> it does 20180428 19:03:15<+discordbot> support it 20180428 19:04:23< celticminstrel> @Bitron — The best way to get it pushed through would be to open a pull request. Failing that, we'd need some way to apply it, such as a comprehensive list of all changes required, or the actual changed config files, or something like that. 20180428 19:04:40< celticminstrel> And BTW, don't forget to update the years used for sorting if any of them change. 20180428 19:05:00< celticminstrel> That's in the [campaign] tag somewhere, it should be obvious which key it is once you look. 20180428 19:05:57< celticminstrel> I can't quite tell from the post whether this timeline tweak applies only to SotBE or to multiple campaigns. 20180428 19:06:55<+discordbot> PR for the wiki page as well? I will check if anything else needs to be changed. 20180428 19:07:15< celticminstrel> No PR for the wiki page, just make the edit yourself once the PR is merged, I'd think. 20180428 19:07:16< zookeeper> you could just edit the wiki after the PR is merged 20180428 19:07:42<+discordbot> Alright, then. 20180428 19:10:38< irker032> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master 1b8bfa6ab485 / src/ai/ (composite/aspect.hpp contexts.cpp contexts.hpp game_info.hpp): AI: simplify some typedefs with template aliases https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/1b8bfa6ab4859db68865597ba21573e67107e3d0 20180428 19:10:41< irker032> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master 1e846aced28b / src/ai/ (composite/aspect.hpp contexts.cpp contexts.hpp): AI: deployed typesafe_aspect_ptr consistently https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/1e846aced28b5b1d1b0ae9890d326ed3a875b96d 20180428 19:10:44< irker032> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master ba150c02981f / src/ai/ (6 files in 2 dirs): AI: deployed std::make_shared in a whole bunch of places https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/ba150c02981fd07bdbc9c3ebf305600754d89aba 20180428 19:12:44<+discordbot> As an IRC user, I would rather not see nosiy notifications about people deleting messages at the Discord side. 20180428 19:12:58<+discordbot> Or even worse, editing them. 20180428 19:13:21<+discordbot> Because you can either get a notification including the message, or a notification that just says "Bitron deleted their own message" -- what message? 20180428 19:13:50<+discordbot> Option A is noise and option B is confusion. 20180428 19:14:58< celticminstrel> I can definitely see what you mean. 20180428 19:15:05< celticminstrel> Personally I'd prefer the noise. 20180428 19:15:14< celticminstrel> Rather than having no idea that it was deleted. 20180428 19:15:56< celticminstrel> Or even edited. 20180428 19:16:27< celticminstrel> Mind you, I'm not sure on edits. 20180428 19:16:40< celticminstrel> That could be a bit too much noise. 20180428 19:23:10<+discordbot> Well, you're not getting either option A or B because everyone else will hate the noise. 20180428 19:23:23< celticminstrel> Oh well. 20180428 19:23:26<+discordbot> And even more so the confusion from vague references to messages. 20180428 19:25:23<+discordbot> how about just the first 20 chars : Bitron deleted their own message (Hey guys I had this...) 20180428 19:27:19<+discordbot> Nope. 20180428 19:27:32<+discordbot> their plural is used when the gender is unclear? (Not a native speaker, so I'm curious..) celticminstrel: where would the changes go, 1.14 or master? 20180428 19:27:41< celticminstrel> Hmm? 20180428 19:27:48< celticminstrel> What plural are we talking about? 20180428 19:28:03<+discordbot> They/them/their/theirs serve double-duty as gender-neutral singular pronouns yes. 20180428 19:28:13< celticminstrel> If that's what you're talking about, then yes. 20180428 19:28:26<+discordbot> That's interesting. 20180428 19:28:34<+discordbot> Yes, that was it. 20180428 19:28:58< celticminstrel> I think the changes could go in 1.14.1 but I'd check with shadowm first. 20180428 19:29:45<+discordbot> Also they're used by non-binary people. 20180428 19:29:49<+discordbot> What changes? 20180428 19:30:00< celticminstrel> The timeline tweak that he linked earlier. 20180428 19:30:41<+discordbot> Uhhhhh. 20180428 19:31:07<+discordbot> Do I need to log into IRC for this? 20180428 19:31:16< celticminstrel> Huh? Why? 20180428 19:31:26<+discordbot> https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=46460#p614551 20180428 19:31:35< celticminstrel> I was just about to do that. XD 20180428 19:31:55<+discordbot> Because I couldn't find anything from Bitron in this chat. 20180428 19:32:06<+discordbot> (because I deleted the post with the link, that's why this whole discussion started...) 20180428 19:32:14< celticminstrel> Ah right. 20180428 19:38:30-!- esr1 [~esr@thyrsus.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180428 19:39:29<+discordbot> Argh. 20180428 19:39:49<+discordbot> This is a question for zookeeper probably. I don't know the mainline timeline that well. 20180428 19:40:26<+discordbot> If you are asking whether it can be accepted from a purely technical standpoint, then it depends on exactly how many string changes this necessitates — I'd rather see a pull request in that case. 20180428 19:40:51< celticminstrel> Yeah, technical standpoint. Zookeeper was also asked earlier. 20180428 19:41:11< celticminstrel> In that case, @Bitron, I'd suggest opening the PR against master. 20180428 19:41:17<+discordbot> There are a lot of string additions awaiting the freeze lift and I feel some of them might have to be postponed unless we give the translators more than one week after the freeze. 20180428 19:41:41< zookeeper> we discussed it in quite a bit of detail back then, so if i said then that i think it's fine, that's an informed an opinion as i could give now by going over it again. if you want to be extra sure you can of course check the irclogs to see if there was something relevant that didn't end up in the thread. 20180428 19:41:45< celticminstrel> It can always be merged to the 1.14 branch separately. 20180428 19:41:49<+discordbot> Which is something Vultraz probably won't accept since he wants to see 1.14.1 ASAP (even though a few bugs that were slated to be fixed before 1.14.0 are still unfixed, go figure...) 20180428 19:42:32< celticminstrel> Are there really that many big string changes in 1.14.1? I recall a lot of small ones. Maybe that's the problem though, I dunno. 20180428 19:43:07<+discordbot> UtBS (whose string changes have not even been formally published yet) and the Dunefolk race description are the big sore points 20180428 19:43:16<+discordbot> The rest is mostly UI stuff. 20180428 19:43:55< celticminstrel> Ah 20180428 19:44:18<+discordbot> And the SotA changes I had to revert. 20180428 19:44:34< celticminstrel> Huh? 20180428 19:44:41< celticminstrel> Oh wait. 20180428 19:44:45< celticminstrel> Right, I remember now. 20180428 19:44:53< celticminstrel> There are some other SotA changes too. 20180428 19:45:01<+discordbot> And the merfolk race name related changes in core. 20180428 19:45:04< celticminstrel> Which I should probably tweak at some point since beetlenaut complained. 20180428 19:45:37< celticminstrel> I'm really kinda surprised that it wasn't changed to merfolk ages ago. 20180428 19:45:45<+discordbot> https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/issues/2940#issuecomment-383411492 20180428 19:45:59<+discordbot> No-one's checked the text in the campaigns yet I reckon. 20180428 19:45:59< celticminstrel> Who could possibly think "mermen" is a reasonable plural? 20180428 19:46:09< irker032> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master 78ea6db7e8f7 / src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): Cleaned up a few unnecessary AI-related includes outside ai/ https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/78ea6db7e8f73f14176dde88543d3905283fa29a 20180428 19:46:22<+discordbot> Men with a severe lack of foresight, at least. 20180428 19:46:57< celticminstrel> Surely the mermaid line wasn't even something that was only added later? 20180428 19:47:11<+discordbot> Because, in fairness, bringing up HttT also requires recalling some of the historical context around it. Around the time I started playing (version 0.9.5) Bay of Pearls only had mermen fighters. 20180428 19:47:28<+discordbot> While the mermaid line was part of mainline already, it wasn't used in HttT yet. 20180428 19:47:40<+discordbot> Or any other mainline campaigns. 20180428 19:47:53<+discordbot> And HttT's prose hasn't evolved much over the years. 20180428 19:48:39<+discordbot> There might be a few other mainline campaigns that reference merfolk as "mermen" because only the fighter line comes into play in them. 20180428 19:49:06<+discordbot> Finally, 90% of the historical development team is comprised of non-native speaker, so all bets are off when you factor that in. 20180428 19:49:15<+discordbot> *speakers 20180428 19:50:22<+discordbot> I can tell you that in Spanish "merfolk" would be translated exactly as if it were "mermen", unless we invented a whole new word for it or did the clunky alternative of spelling it out as "mermaids and mermen". 20180428 19:50:48<+discordbot> Wait hang on. 20180428 19:51:10<+discordbot> Scratch that, I'm forgetting my own native language. I forgot we do have a separate word for "mermen", although I'm not sure it's used in Wesnoth. 20180428 19:51:20< celticminstrel> Heh. 20180428 19:51:43< celticminstrel> Based on the tritons? 20180428 19:52:35 * celticminstrel is yes, guessing at the etymology of a word that they haven't actually even seen yet. >_> 20180428 19:52:39<+discordbot> Why is data/core/units.cfg in the wesnoth-help textdomain while the units themselves are in wesnoth-units. 20180428 19:53:10<+discordbot> Sounds like an oversight 20180428 19:53:11< celticminstrel> How many of those strings are used in places other than help? 20180428 19:53:21< celticminstrel> Most of the strings there are race descriptions and such, right? 20180428 19:53:32<+discordbot> Well, yeah, normally "merman" is translated to Spanish as "triton" when referring to males. 20180428 19:53:59< irker032> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master b47837b3c065 / src/gui/dialogs/ (5 files): GUI2/Dialogs: cleaned up a bunch of unnecessary forward declarations https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/b47837b3c06538db8560db1da9cd642f5158e4fb 20180428 19:54:05<+discordbot> In Wesnoth we use "sirénido" because there is a Merman Triton unit, though. 20180428 19:54:37<+discordbot> People who know a bit of Spanish might be wondering what the situation is for the Mermaid Siren. 20180428 19:54:47<+discordbot> I am wondering... 20180428 19:55:01<+discordbot> Even English-speakers tend to get mermaids and sirens mixed up with each other when they were originally completely different things. 20180428 19:55:05< celticminstrel> I wasn't wondering but now that you bring it up I am. 20180428 19:55:47<+discordbot> msgid "Mermaid Siren" msgstr "Sirena" 20180428 19:56:07<+discordbot> Non-siren mermaids in Wesnoth are referred to as "sirénidas" in Spanish. 20180428 19:56:44<+discordbot> Obviously "Sirena sirénida" would be a bit ridiculous so... 20180428 19:56:58<+discordbot> Interesting... I wouldn’t have mentally conflated sirens and mermen... 20180428 19:57:07< celticminstrel> Bad Vultraz. 20180428 19:57:14<+discordbot> Spanish does it at a language level. 20180428 19:57:20< celticminstrel> "sirens and mermaids" <-- fixed it for you 20180428 19:57:54< celticminstrel> (But when it's mermaids rather than mermen I'm not sure your statement would still apply.) 20180428 19:58:41<+discordbot> Fair enough 20180428 19:59:00< celticminstrel> I thought sirens basically were the mythological source of mermaids though? Or at least one of them (there are mermaids in mythologies other than Greek). 20180428 19:59:31<+discordbot> Sirens I associate with Greek myth. Mermaids more with European... English and/or Germanic? 20180428 20:01:31< celticminstrel> I don't remember any mermaid myths from northern Europe, but I wouldn't be too surprised if they exist. 20180428 20:01:38< celticminstrel> (The selkie doesn't count FTR.) 20180428 20:02:15<+discordbot> I'm not aware of any such myths. 20180428 20:02:45<+discordbot> do fairy tales count 20180428 20:02:52< celticminstrel> Maybe? 20180428 20:03:01< celticminstrel> Ah right, Hans Christian Anderson. 20180428 20:03:09 * celticminstrel probably misspelled his name but whatever. 20180428 20:03:09<+discordbot> that was the one I thought of immediately 20180428 20:03:30< celticminstrel> That's probably one of the main sources of modern mermaids. 20180428 20:04:06<+discordbot> I can tell you that they exist in Chinese folktales, but that wouldn't be as relevant to a high fantasy-based genre 20180428 20:05:05< celticminstrel> I know there are definitely mermaids in Japanese myth too (might be the same ones as Chinese folktales? Supposedly eating their flesh makes you immortal. >_> ) 20180428 20:05:40<+discordbot> also correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm under the impression that mermaids are much more common in folktales/fairy tales than mermen? 20180428 20:05:44<+discordbot> just a random thought 20180428 20:06:14< celticminstrel> I believe so, but Greek myth definitely has fairly-prominent mermen (the tritons). 20180428 20:06:40< celticminstrel> I don't know of any link between the tritons and the sirens. 20180428 20:06:56< celticminstrel> Even though sirens are kinda like Greek mermaids. 20180428 20:07:46<+discordbot> hmm, it's been a very long time since I've read the Odyssey, but I believe the sirens are actually part bird and not fish? 20180428 20:08:12< celticminstrel> Eh? 20180428 20:08:31< celticminstrel> I remember seeing this in an anime recently, but I didn't think it was actually like that in the myths? 20180428 20:08:31<+discordbot> although there is the inherent association with the sea due to them deceiving sailors 20180428 20:09:25<+discordbot> I remember seeing depictions of them with wings in a museum 20180428 20:09:25< celticminstrel> Some mythological creatures are inconsistently depicted, mind you. 20180428 20:09:30<+discordbot> that could be it 20180428 20:09:45< celticminstrel> Like the satyrs IIRC are sometimes part-goat and and other times part-horse. 20180428 20:09:48-!- esr1 [~esr@thyrsus.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1] 20180428 20:10:17<+discordbot> asian-style dragons also tend to be different than western-style ones 20180428 20:10:18< celticminstrel> And there are several variants on the sphinx. 20180428 20:10:22< celticminstrel> Yeah, indeed. 20180428 20:10:39< celticminstrel> ...though if you look at Beowulf the difference may be a little... less pronounced... 20180428 20:10:42<+discordbot> I don't think anyone would complain about a siren being associated with a mermaid, though 20180428 20:11:07-!- Oebele [~quassel@143.177.58.202] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180428 20:11:30< celticminstrel> Pretty sure I've heard theories that the myths of sirens actually come from sightings of manatees. 20180428 20:12:43<+discordbot> hmm, also wikipedia does use "mermen" as the plural for "merman", but clearly treats it for male merpeople only 20180428 20:12:50< celticminstrel> Though that kinda doesn't make much sense if there were never any in the Mediterranean... 20180428 20:13:17<+discordbot> so merfolk seems like the most reasonable way to lump in both "mermen" and "mermaids" together 20180428 20:13:22< celticminstrel> The theory might've been about mermaids rather than sirens though, whouch would make more sense. 20180428 20:13:25< celticminstrel> ^which 20180428 20:13:38< celticminstrel> AFAIK "merfolk" is the most common way of lumping together mermen and mermaids. 20180428 20:14:13< celticminstrel> (Would make more sense because mermaid myths are apparently common around China and Japan and such.) 20180428 20:14:22<+discordbot> in terms of etymology "Others connect the name to σειρά (seirá "rope, cord") and εἴρω (eírō "to tie, join, fasten"), resulting in the meaning "binder, entangler",[4] i. e. one who binds or entangles through magic song. " 20180428 20:14:23<+discordbot> regarding siren 20180428 20:14:46<+discordbot> so the name itself in linguistics apparently does not suggest anything to do with mermaids 20180428 20:15:06< celticminstrel> As an English word there's not even any connection to the sea. 20180428 20:15:13< celticminstrel> It's about sound. 20180428 20:15:15<+discordbot> yep 20180428 20:19:43<+discordbot> Whether merfolk is adequate or not isn't really important since in Wesnoth we can invent any words we need and do it all the time (see also "Wesfolk", "Islefolk", "tree-folk"). 20180428 20:19:55<+discordbot> And merfolk has been in use for ages in the game. 20180428 20:20:02< celticminstrel> Has it? 20180428 20:20:26< celticminstrel> But it's been in use for ages in other works of art too (games, novels, movies, etc). 20180428 20:21:43<+discordbot> treefolk is also used in magic the gathering 20180428 20:22:05< celticminstrel> It's generic enough that I doubt that could possibly be a problem. 20180428 20:22:08<+discordbot> (something)-folk seems to be a pretty common/simple way to name a group in fantasy 20180428 20:22:15< celticminstrel> Also true. 20180428 20:22:26<+discordbot> just using as an example, there should be absolutely no problem with using treefolk 20180428 20:22:28< celticminstrel> To an excessive degree even. 20180428 20:22:42< celticminstrel> D&D has three or four races named Xfolk IIRC. 20180428 20:23:01<+discordbot> cough Dunefolk cough 20180428 20:23:24< celticminstrel> Well, it also depends on full details. 20180428 20:23:35< celticminstrel> [animal]folk is more boring than [environment]folk for example. 20180428 20:24:11<+discordbot> i suppose 20180428 20:24:24<+discordbot> also, you may be right about sirens and birds.. 20180428 20:24:31< celticminstrel> So if you have catfolk and lizardfolk, that's a little boring. If you have dunefolk and hillfolk, it's not so bad. 20180428 20:25:22-!- esr1 [~esr@thyrsus.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180428 20:25:51< celticminstrel> (Clarification: that's assuming you're using those names for them. Exile/Avernum has catfolk and lizardfolk, but it's not boring because they're called nephilim and slithzerikai.) 20180428 20:26:24<+discordbot> How the hell does Nephilim apply to .... catfolk o_O 20180428 20:26:35< celticminstrel> It's unusual, certainly. 20180428 20:26:47<+discordbot> Nephilim are usually... angels. Or part angels. 20180428 20:26:53< celticminstrel> But I thikn it's not that big of a stretch. 20180428 20:26:58< celticminstrel> Nephilim are not angels. 20180428 20:27:01< celticminstrel> ^think 20180428 20:27:18<+discordbot> Hm. 20180428 20:27:21<+discordbot> Actually, yeah 20180428 20:27:21< celticminstrel> They are demi-angels in the actual myths, giants borne of unions between humans and angels. 20180428 20:27:31<+discordbot> I'm thinking of this one YA fantasy series I read. 20180428 20:27:33< irker032> wesnoth/wesnoth:1.14 newfrenchy83 3fdfcec07d Update wesnoth.cbp AppVeyor: All builds passed 20180428 20:27:33< Ivanovic> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nephilim 20180428 20:27:48< celticminstrel> And it was to wipe them out that YHWH triggered the flood. 20180428 20:27:49< Ivanovic> The Nephilim /ˈnɛfɪˌlɪm/ (Hebrew: נְפִילִים‬, nefilim) were the offspring of the "sons of God" and the "daughters of men" before the Deluge, according to Genesis 6:1–4 of the Bible. 20180428 20:27:56<+discordbot> ... actually, that is actually what I was thinking of 20180428 20:27:57<+discordbot> 🤔 20180428 20:28:07<+discordbot> That's why I said "part angels". 20180428 20:28:22< celticminstrel> But yeah, using the term for catfolk is certainly a little unusual. 20180428 20:28:37<+discordbot> GIANT CAT PEOPLE 20180428 20:28:41< Ivanovic> now, cats in agyptian mythology... 20180428 20:28:42< celticminstrel> XD 20180428 20:28:53< celticminstrel> They're not giants in Exile/Avernum though, they're human-sized. 20180428 20:29:02<+discordbot> Egyptian mythology indeed had cat people 20180428 20:29:08<+discordbot> Bastet 20180428 20:29:11<+discordbot> the cat goddess 20180428 20:29:18< celticminstrel> I don't think that counts as "cat people". 20180428 20:29:22< celticminstrel> At best it's "cat person". 20180428 20:29:25< Ivanovic> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cats_in_ancient_Egypt 20180428 20:29:27<+discordbot> fair 20180428 20:29:56<+discordbot> "Mau". 20180428 20:30:02< celticminstrel> ? 20180428 20:30:05< Ivanovic> don't underestimate Mafdet ("human" with lion head) 20180428 20:30:22<+discordbot> "Cats [...], known in ancient Egypt as Mau" 20180428 20:30:41<+discordbot> It can't get any more predictable than that. 20180428 20:30:55<+discordbot> The ancient Egyptians were big on humans with animal heads. 20180428 20:31:06<+discordbot> (If you read that using Latin/Spanish phonetics it sounds like a short "meow".) 20180428 20:31:18<+discordbot> somewhat, yes 20180428 20:31:27<+discordbot> (An angry meow.) 20180428 20:31:40<+discordbot> BTW, "meow" is written as "miau" in Finnish. 20180428 20:31:44< Ivanovic> shadowm: hmmm, a friend of mines uses exactly that word as the german sound for meow 20180428 20:32:11< Ivanovic> and also as a "name" for cats in general 20180428 20:32:24< Ivanovic> I did not know that she speaks ancient egypt... 20180428 20:32:35<+discordbot> No one speaks ancient Egyptian 20180428 20:32:36<+discordbot> 😛 20180428 20:32:50< Ivanovic> ah, with her I would not be too sure... 20180428 20:32:59< Ivanovic> she is pretty good at languages 20180428 20:33:09<+discordbot> No one actually knows what it sounds like 20180428 20:33:31< Ivanovic> so noone can prove that she misspronounces 20180428 20:33:33< Ivanovic> perfect! 20180428 20:33:38< Ivanovic> ;) 20180428 20:34:08<+discordbot> 😛 20180428 20:34:33< celticminstrel> I wouldn't be so sure of that, Vultraz. 20180428 20:34:43-!- esr1 [~esr@thyrsus.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1] 20180428 20:34:52-!- esr1 [~esr@thyrsus.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180428 20:34:55< celticminstrel> It wouldn't surprise me if there are a few people who can speak a little Ancient Egyptian. 20180428 20:35:16< celticminstrel> I'm not sure if they know precisely what it sounds like, but there are at least very good guesses. 20180428 20:35:20< celticminstrel> ^sounded 20180428 20:43:55<+discordbot> who shall take the screenshots for the announcement? 20180428 20:44:17< shadowm> me 20180428 20:44:24< shadowm> You tell me what you need. 20180428 20:46:14<+discordbot> In place of Ravanal's, a good shot of UtBS S1 where either Nym, Garak, or Kaleh is speaking. Possibly when Nym finds Garak. 20180428 20:46:31-!- ToBeCloud [uid51591@wikimedia/ToBeFree] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180428 20:46:43<+discordbot> A shot of the Elvish Sylph displayed in the sidebar. 20180428 20:47:29<+discordbot> I'm thinking a shot of MP Create Game instead of the lobby, maybe 20180428 20:48:55<+discordbot> of course, a shot of the campaigns menu with SotA displayed 20180428 20:49:04<+discordbot> a shot of the main menu as a whole 20180428 20:49:24<+discordbot> So, I have been reading through the SotBE dialoques and I found three parts where I had to tweak numbers in order to fit into the tweaked timeline. Since it only changes a few things in the years before the campaign and the campaign itself remains in the exact same time, I didn't have to change anything else. The two campaigns which are, chronological, the closest before SotBE are Eastern Invasion and Dead Water, both ending 627 YW. 20180428 20:49:25<+discordbot> I find it highly unlikely that they have anything concerning the years 761+ YW, I also coulnd't find anything after a quick look. The next scenario afterwards is Under the Burning Suns. There is no Dialoque in the wiki for this campaign, but I assume one of you might now if there could be anything of relevance for these changes (from 786 to 858 YW). I have a branch with the changes locally now. How am I going to do a pull request out of it 20180428 20:49:25<+discordbot> now? (Never did that before..) 20180428 20:50:12<+discordbot> @Bitron nothing in SotBE would toch UtBS 20180428 20:50:27<+discordbot> Can I speed through UtBS and get a shot of one of those three speaking in scenario 2 or 3 20180428 20:50:40<+discordbot> Scenario 1s are such low-hanging fruit in general. 20180428 20:51:02<+discordbot> doesn't matter, as long as it looks good and is a message. 20180428 20:51:42<+discordbot> Just so I can get quickly back to this later. 20180428 20:51:57<+discordbot> you could even do elyssa 20180428 20:52:25<+discordbot> I'll see. I'd probably go for Nym instead. 20180428 20:52:53<+discordbot> I think these should probably be at 1080 fullscreen 20180428 20:54:35<+discordbot> let's see... we need one of the editor.... perhaps an AtS, IftU, SoD, G, or any other nice-looking dungeon map with some of the new carpet, gate, wall, and sconce terrains on display dungeon map with a few 20180428 20:54:41< celticminstrel> @Bitron, if you have a fork on GitHub, there should be a "Compare & Pull Request" button on your fork's main page. 20180428 20:54:43-!- esr1 [~esr@thyrsus.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1] 20180428 20:55:14< celticminstrel> @Vultraz @shadowm, if you're showing maps in the editor I personally think you should either a) use an MP map or b) just start a new map and paint the terrains you want to show off. 20180428 20:55:30<+discordbot> nah, it's fine to show a UMC map 20180428 20:55:38<+discordbot> I don't have a fork. Just a clone from the main repo 20180428 20:55:42< celticminstrel> I would tend to disagree. 20180428 20:55:55<+discordbot> @Vultraz IftU and AtS are not using new terrains yet. 20180428 20:55:57< celticminstrel> @Bitron - Then you need to fork it first and reset your clone's upstream to point to the fork. 20180428 20:56:10<+discordbot> And I don't know about Genesis or SoD. 20180428 20:56:22< celticminstrel> @Vultraz - I don't think it's reasonable to include user-made stuff in the Steam screenshots. 20180428 20:56:32<+discordbot> celmin: this is not for steam 20180428 20:56:38< celticminstrel> Because that stuff is not in the game, and there's technically no guarantee that it will ever be in the game. 20180428 20:56:42<+discordbot> this is for the fancy-ass announcement 20180428 20:56:44< celticminstrel> Well, it applies for the website too. 20180428 20:57:09<+discordbot> Well I'm sorry to say but no-one raised that objection back when we did the 1.12 announcement. 20180428 20:57:12< celticminstrel> Of course, if someone has a map that they plan to use in their campaign, and they're okay with showing it off in the editor for one of the screenshots, then that's fine. 20180428 20:57:16<+discordbot> (FTR, SoD has been updated to use the new 1.14 terrains) 20180428 20:57:31< celticminstrel> SoD? 20180428 20:57:34<+discordbot> This isn't rocket science. It's just the map editor. 20180428 20:57:57<+discordbot> celmin: Shadows of Deception. The campaign I never finished that you used to comment on years ago 20180428 20:58:00<+discordbot> Whether it's displaying a mainline map or a UMC map or a map that has been published anywhere in the first place is irrelevant. The point of the screenshot is to show off the editor. 20180428 20:58:12< celticminstrel> Right, but if what you intend is to specifically show off new terrain, it seems to me that it'd be more efficient just to make a map specifically to show off the terrain you want to show off. 20180428 20:58:25< celticminstrel> @Vultraz I don't even remember this. >_> 20180428 20:58:32<+discordbot> Okay, then please go and make one celticminstrel. 20180428 20:58:38<+discordbot> no, celmin >_> 20180428 20:58:39<+discordbot> Neither Vultraz nor I have all the time in the world for that. 20180428 20:58:41<+discordbot> a new one would look ugly 20180428 20:58:47<+discordbot> because it would be done quickly 20180428 20:58:54<+discordbot> Exactly. 20180428 20:59:08< celticminstrel> That doesn't necessarily follow, but I can see your point. 20180428 20:59:11<+discordbot> It needs to be made the same way a normal map would be made, which is to say, with time and dedication. 20180428 20:59:30<+discordbot> I do not use 1.14 terrains 20180428 20:59:34< celticminstrel> Time and dedication huh. 20180428 20:59:37<+discordbot> yes 20180428 20:59:43<+discordbot> 😒 20180428 20:59:48<+discordbot> many of my maps are created using Archaic Resources terrains 20180428 20:59:54<+discordbot> The better the map looks, the more you're showing off the terrain graphics and engine feature. 20180428 21:00:10<+discordbot> however, I have drawn a few maps for pydsigner using the 1.14 terrains 20180428 21:00:17<+discordbot> you could ask him about one of those 20180428 21:00:34<+discordbot> freshly drawn, embellished up and everything all nice 20180428 21:00:40< celticminstrel> BTW, is there a list of the new terrains anywhere? 20180428 21:00:43<+discordbot> https://www.wesnoth.org/start/1.12/images/start-6.png 20180428 21:00:45<+discordbot> now, I need to ponder what to replace the Dunefolk and SoD generic screenshots with 20180428 21:00:55<+discordbot> er 20180428 21:00:56<+discordbot> ... 20180428 21:00:58<+discordbot> SoF 20180428 21:01:08<+discordbot> That map above is AtS E1S6.1. 20180428 21:01:26<+discordbot> I actually made some changes to show off what at the time needed to be shown off, which was the scenario editor features. 20180428 21:01:42< celticminstrel> Ah, I was going ot say... "you actually use the scenario editor features?". 20180428 21:01:43<+discordbot> The actual scenario doesn't feature any of those units or debris or rock monoliths. 20180428 21:01:46< celticminstrel> ^to 20180428 21:02:05< celticminstrel> ...why do they have orbs. o.O 20180428 21:02:18<+discordbot> ¯_(ツ)_/¯ 20180428 21:02:23<+discordbot> ¯_(ツ)_/¯ 20180428 21:02:29< celticminstrel> Figured. 20180428 21:03:19<+discordbot> I don't think anyone got new portraits besides the Quenoth Elves in 1.13... 20180428 21:03:38<+discordbot> there were some new genrics... 20180428 21:04:04< gfgtdf> 1.14 is still in stringfreeze right ? 20180428 21:04:07<+discordbot> yes 20180428 21:04:10<+discordbot> hey wait a second 20180428 21:04:12<+discordbot> ... 20180428 21:04:18<+discordbot> I redid the Tutorial 20180428 21:04:23<+discordbot> And I forgot to mention that 20180428 21:05:12< celticminstrel> ??? 20180428 21:05:12<+discordbot> so a sample of some of the maps I drew for pydsigner 20180428 21:05:19< celticminstrel> What are you talking about? 20180428 21:05:25< celticminstrel> Redid the tutorial? 20180428 21:05:35<+discordbot> yes. I made significant improvements to it 20180428 21:05:41<+discordbot> nvm it's too big, need to figure out how to do the screenshot 20180428 21:05:51< celticminstrel> There were quite a few generics, all the walking corpse variants now have a unique portrait. 20180428 21:05:58< celticminstrel> "significant improvements" 20180428 21:06:04< celticminstrel> What kind of improvements. 20180428 21:06:07<+discordbot> Yes, but I don't... think those are ones we want to showcase 20180428 21:06:14< celticminstrel> Why not? 20180428 21:06:33< celticminstrel> Anyway, what other portraits are new? 20180428 21:06:42< celticminstrel> Are there other generics? 20180428 21:06:46<+discordbot> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/259976436490829825/439895261955751937/Capture.JPG 20180428 21:06:48<+discordbot> I don't think so 20180428 21:06:51<+discordbot> @Vultraz is this kind of map what you're looking for 20180428 21:06:57<+discordbot> like that kind of screenshot to display the editor 20180428 21:07:10< celticminstrel> The ogre isn't new, is it? 20180428 21:07:19<+discordbot> that looks quite nice, yes, but I'm looking for a dungeon maps since we have a whole bunch of new indoor/dungeon terrains 20180428 21:07:28<+discordbot> but that is quite a nice map 20180428 21:07:34<+discordbot> 👍 20180428 21:07:46<+discordbot> 🤔 20180428 21:07:50<+discordbot> the only other one I've done is this one 20180428 21:07:57<+discordbot> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/259976436490829825/439895562788274197/Capture1.JPG 20180428 21:07:59< celticminstrel> I suppose it might be a nice map but it's not very interesting to look at a screenshot of it.... 20180428 21:07:59<+discordbot> that uses super new terrains 20180428 21:08:02<+discordbot> shadowm can just use SoD 20180428 21:08:09<+discordbot> okay, as long as you're fine with that 20180428 21:08:10<+discordbot> S6 20180428 21:08:13< celticminstrel> The second one is more interesting though. 20180428 21:08:38<+discordbot> all my dungeon maps are using doofus's terrains 20180428 21:08:38< celticminstrel> [Apr 28@5:00:40pm] celticminstrel: BTW, is there a list of the new terrains anywhere? 20180428 21:08:45<+discordbot> no 20180428 21:08:51< celticminstrel> :( 20180428 21:08:55<+discordbot> so it's up to you to have a good map for the announcement 20180428 21:09:34<+discordbot> git diff 1.11.11..1.12.0 -- data/core/terrain.cfg 20180428 21:09:52<+discordbot> *1.14.0 20180428 21:10:14< celticminstrel> Would that work? I guess I can try it. 20180428 21:11:23<+discordbot> git push -u what is the -u for? 20180428 21:12:28< irker032> wesnoth: Charles Dang website:master ddecedd679d5 / start/1.14/template.html: 1.14/Announcement: added links to West and LordBob's sites https://github.com/wesnoth/website/commit/ddecedd679d55781d715c11de3d064d23f3d8c6a 20180428 21:12:52<+discordbot> -u sets the pushed branch's upstream to the remote you're specifying. 20180428 21:13:46<+discordbot> E.g. git push -u personal-fork feature/campaignd-delete-shadow-master would set personal-fork as the upstream for the feature/campaignd-delete-shadow-master branch I'm pushing. 20180428 21:14:12<+discordbot> (And yes, that is an actual branch I used a few weeks ago. Don't judge me.) 20180428 21:14:36< celticminstrel> o.o 20180428 21:15:17<+discordbot> Alright, thank you. 20180428 21:15:43<+discordbot> (It's commit 6d5f5d4299f41f54c979d2a5b785b4b26b9d2be2and the three commits leading up to it.) 20180428 21:17:22-!- Oebele [~quassel@143.177.58.202] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180428 21:17:39< irker032> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master d31e74aee002 / src/synced_user_choice.cpp: improve mp sync waiting message https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/d31e74aee0028bdb0c7d7dbc74d4ec05389a9298 20180428 21:18:32< celticminstrel> Oh, are the HTTT portraits new for 1.14? 20180428 21:18:38< celticminstrel> Or were they in 1.12? 20180428 21:18:45< celticminstrel> I didn't play HTTT in 1.12 so... 20180428 21:19:06<+discordbot> not 1.14 20180428 21:19:19-!- Bhoren [~Bhoren_wh@2a01:e0a:c:2150:3180:6cf4:11e9:c58f] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20180428 21:20:02<+discordbot> They were new in 1.11.x but partially backported to 1.10.7. 20180428 21:20:07< zookeeper> actually, the HttT portraits were even back... yeah 20180428 21:20:13< celticminstrel> Ah okay. 20180428 21:20:19< celticminstrel> But they definitely weren't all in 1.10... 20180428 21:20:43<+discordbot> Partially backported like I said. 20180428 21:20:44< celticminstrel> IIRC that's when I played HTTT and the new Lisar and Konrad portraits definitely weren't used. 20180428 21:20:47< celticminstrel> Fair enough. 20180428 21:20:54<+discordbot> And only to 1.10.7. 20180428 21:21:08< celticminstrel> Really? So I could've played it on 1.10 and still missed them, huh... 20180428 21:23:51<+discordbot> (changing the mention of dual-license to relicense) 20180428 21:24:24<+discordbot> also, i'm pretty sure the orb customization was in 1.12? 20180428 21:24:28< celticminstrel> It hasn't been relicensed AFAIK. 20180428 21:24:31<+discordbot> i mean, the SoF screenshot even has black enemy orbs 20180428 21:24:35< celticminstrel> I don't recall orb customization in 1.12. 20180428 21:24:58< celticminstrel> Didn't the default orb colours actually change in 1.13.x? 20180428 21:25:23<+discordbot> no? 20180428 21:25:29<+discordbot> though i do recall something about that... 20180428 21:25:36< celticminstrel> They definitely change at some point. 20180428 21:25:39< celticminstrel> ^+d 20180428 21:29:46<+discordbot> My very first PR. Woho! 20180428 21:30:33<+discordbot> bit-ron, byte-ron 😂 20180428 21:30:51<+discordbot> so that's what your name is 20180428 21:31:04<+discordbot> They changed in 1.11.x then they were reverted. 20180428 21:31:05-!- boucman [~rosen@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20180428 21:31:09<+discordbot> Before 1.12.0. 20180428 21:31:24<+discordbot> @Yumi Yeah, someone was quicker than me on github. <.< 20180428 21:31:25<+discordbot> At least that's how I remember it. 20180428 21:31:54<+discordbot> @Vultraz Orb customization wasn't in 1.12. 20180428 21:32:06<+discordbot> alright 20180428 21:32:13< irker032> wesnoth: Charles Dang website:master 8e1780711cb9 / start/1.14/template.html: 1.14/Announcement: more text updates https://github.com/wesnoth/website/commit/8e1780711cb9e781e03b556c21decbf2c667cb5e 20180428 21:32:18<+discordbot> (is celmin reviewing these?) 20180428 21:32:37< celticminstrel> Hmm> 20180428 21:32:45< celticminstrel> ^? 20180428 21:33:00<+discordbot> my commits 20180428 21:33:05< celticminstrel> Should I be? 20180428 21:33:10<+discordbot> https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/1e5d58af6a5143f37cd1768f4967bac5b075ccaa 20180428 21:33:30<+discordbot> 130 commits past 1.11.11, which is the divergence point between master and 1.12. 20180428 21:33:39<+discordbot> especially the wconsole bit 20180428 21:34:01<+discordbot> It's just that the enemy orbs lingered around for a while. 20180428 21:34:10<+discordbot> Along with the changed colours in 1.12. 20180428 21:34:31<+discordbot> In particular they were removed in 1.11.15. 20180428 21:34:32< celticminstrel> I don't know whether I remembered the orbs changing colour between 1.10 and 1.12 or between 1.12 and 1.13.x. 20180428 21:34:35<+discordbot> oh, ToD colors were also tweaked 20180428 21:34:44<+discordbot> where to mention... 20180428 21:34:58<+discordbot> No-one's going to notice the ToD colours changing. I didn't and I'm supposed to be an artist here. 20180428 21:35:03<+discordbot> ok 20180428 21:35:22<+discordbot> Unless you want to be the one doing a before/after comparison screenshot. 20180428 21:35:25< celticminstrel> I can't even see what you changed in the Lua paragraph. 20180428 21:35:28<+discordbot> guess I'll mention it in 20 years when we get dynamic lighting effects and god rays 20180428 21:35:48<+discordbot> still hasn't found the to read the draft 20180428 21:35:53<+discordbot> *time 20180428 21:36:16<+discordbot> celmin: view it unified 20180428 21:36:28< celticminstrel> "unified" 20180428 21:36:37<+discordbot> Unified 20180428 21:36:42< celticminstrel> No that won't work. 20180428 21:37:07< celticminstrel> Do you really expect me to scroll horizontally for miles just to see what changed? 20180428 21:37:18<+discordbot> one or two words 20180428 21:37:26<+discordbot> in it -> in Lua for example 20180428 21:37:55< celticminstrel> Well, to be fair, if I didn't notice it in the side-by-side diff it's probably not anything worth commenting on. 20180428 21:38:48< irker032> wesnoth: Charles Dang website:master 37d98b9ebca2 / start/1.14/template.html: 1.14/Announcement: fixed a tiny typo https://github.com/wesnoth/website/commit/37d98b9ebca25d344c29de0287f39d165e0cc429 20180428 22:00:30< irker032> wesnoth: Charles Dang website:master fbda99915759 / start/1.14/template.html: 1.14/Announcement: updated download package sizes https://github.com/wesnoth/website/commit/fbda9991575977a953725dc920c6424a57f54bf5 20180428 22:02:21< celticminstrel> So zookeeper, @Vultraz, @shadowm - AFAICT the only particularly good suggestions for changing the name of "marksman" are "accuracy" and "precision", though "prowess" and "proficiency" aren't too bad I guess... and we can't seem to think of a word that wouldn't work just as well for ranged attacks. So, what do you think of changing "marksman" to "accurate"? 20180428 22:02:41< celticminstrel> Only for the weapon special, of course, not for any unit names. 20180428 22:03:10< celticminstrel> I kinda like "precision" better but apparently Ravana_ feels that that should be reserved for an even more accurate attack. 20180428 22:03:13<+discordbot> there is a difference between accuracy and precision 20180428 22:03:24< celticminstrel> ("precision" or "precise"). 20180428 22:03:33<+discordbot> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRAFPdDppzs 20180428 22:03:33< celticminstrel> You're right, there is a difference between accuracy and precision. 20180428 22:03:41< Ravana_> not reserved, just it has already been used to mean 80% 20180428 22:04:16< celticminstrel> But that distinction is more of a scientific one and probably doesn't really matter here. 20180428 22:06:13< celticminstrel> (Precision is when results are clustered close together; someone who always hits the edge of the target is very precise. Accuracy is when results average to the correct value; someone who hits the edge as often as the center is accurate. But I don't think this distinction matters in this context.) 20180428 22:06:48< zookeeper> i think "accurate" sounds awfully boring. "precision" is maybe a little bit better. 20180428 22:07:02< zookeeper> exactitude? :p no, not serious. 20180428 22:07:20< celticminstrel> Thoughts on "accuracy" vs "accurate" and "precise" vs "precision"? ie the adjective form vs the noun form. 20180428 22:07:33< celticminstrel> I agree that "accurate" or even "accuracy" sounds a little boring. 20180428 22:15:51-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20180428 22:17:20<+discordbot> I heard "sharp" is used as well in terms of precision, but it might cause confusion, since a blade might be sharp in a different manner as well. 20180428 22:18:58< celticminstrel> Uh. I don't think that's general enough to use as the name of a special ability. 20180428 22:19:04< celticminstrel> Sure there's "sharpshooter", but... 20180428 22:23:39<+discordbot> Besides sounding a bit boring (which I actually think is not the case), accurate is still the most, well, accurate term for what we are looking for, imo. 20180428 22:36:38-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180428 22:36:45-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180428 23:01:33-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180428 23:01:39-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180428 23:05:30<+discordbot> "accuracy" is the noun though 20180428 23:06:22< celticminstrel> Yes. 20180428 23:08:15<+discordbot> changelog.wesnoth.org doesn't work with https either... 20180428 23:08:16<+discordbot> 😦 20180428 23:09:54< celticminstrel> Probably because it redirects to github. None of the redirects work with https, for reasons. 20180428 23:10:47<+discordbot> because it wasn't set up so 20180428 23:11:15< celticminstrel> If I understand correctly, they can't in general be made to work with https. 20180428 23:11:22< celticminstrel> Because they redirect to a different domain. 20180428 23:11:43<+discordbot> Not so 20180428 23:12:07< celticminstrel> Part of the purpose of https is to protect against phishing, so if it tries to use the Wesnoth certificate on the GitHub domain, obviously that's not gonna work. 20180428 23:16:21<+discordbot> I'd ask if we can get that redirect working but honestly I feel like extending r.wesnoth.org would be easier. 20180428 23:17:15< irker032> wesnoth: Charles Dang website:master 1bbbeb97df2b / start/1.14/template.html: 1.14/Announcement: improved download and contribution text https://github.com/wesnoth/website/commit/1bbbeb97df2b905428b0312f9b6fbf8df9058244 20180428 23:17:17< celticminstrel> I think basically what you need to do to get changelog.wesnoth.org to work with https is to host the changelog on the wesnoth servers. Maybe there's a way to get https redirects to work properly but I wouldn't know anything about it. 20180428 23:17:21<+discordbot> Going to start referring more to "players" instead of "users" 20180428 23:18:34< celticminstrel> "and can find instructions" Did you forget how to English ;) 20180428 23:18:55< celticminstrel> Missing a subject in that sentence basically. 20180428 23:19:11<+discordbot> oops 20180428 23:19:19<+discordbot> reverted a change and forgot to restore "you"... 20180428 23:19:23< celticminstrel> I mean I guess it could be interpreted as "The source code can find instructions" but that's obviously wrong. 20180428 23:19:44<+discordbot> 😂 20180428 23:20:08< celticminstrel> That's the laughing emoji, right? 20180428 23:20:12<+discordbot> yes 20180428 23:20:16<+discordbot> laughing with tears 20180428 23:20:19< irker032> wesnoth/wesnoth:master gfgtdf 6c802b5016 fix a %->$ in german translation AppVeyor: All builds passed 20180428 23:20:25< celticminstrel> Yeah I don't like that laughing emoji. 20180428 23:20:40< celticminstrel> I guess it's the only one in Unicode but... 20180428 23:20:54<+discordbot> there are many laughing emojis 20180428 23:21:05< celticminstrel> Well whatever. 20180428 23:21:08< celticminstrel> XD is still the best one. 20180428 23:21:19<+discordbot> also, either you or mattsc need to: "[TODO mattsc can probably tell us about "Many expansions and some simplifications to the specification of AI parameter in WML and the Lua AI API"]" 20180428 23:21:20< celticminstrel> I dunno if Unicode has it. 20180428 23:21:23< celticminstrel> Right. 20180428 23:21:42< celticminstrel> I can probably do it but mattsc can probably do it better. 20180428 23:21:44<+discordbot> "[TODO is this actually an accurate description of the campaign]" 20180428 23:21:49<+discordbot> anyone know where beetlenaut is 20180428 23:22:04< celticminstrel> Indeed, I've tried to ping him once or twice already in here, but I guess maybe he's not on Discord. 20180428 23:22:18< celticminstrel> You could try sending him a PM on the forums? 20180428 23:22:22<+discordbot> :/ 20180428 23:22:46<+discordbot> "heir syntax also sees the addition of a [resource] tag to implement hidden modifications that can be explicitly requested by add-ons instead of manually selected by players." 20180428 23:22:49<+discordbot> when did this become a thing 20180428 23:23:09< celticminstrel> I think gfgtdf did it. Theoretically it's quite useful; I haven't actually tried it though. 20180428 23:23:40< celticminstrel> But if Elvish_Hunter or whoever else was maintaining it doesn't get back to the Wesnoth Lua Pack I'll probably try putting it up on 1.14 as a resource pack. 20180428 23:24:05< gfgtdf> ye it basicially does what you said, 20180428 23:24:10< celticminstrel> I can't remember if it's documented yet but basically you put a [load_resource] tag in your [campaign] or something. 20180428 23:24:29< celticminstrel> And then it's basically as if the contents of that [resource] were copied into your [campaign]. 20180428 23:24:34< celticminstrel> Roughly speaking. 20180428 23:24:52< gfgtdf> ye exactly that, ofc ou can also use it in [era], [modification] and [multiplayer] 20180428 23:24:56<+discordbot> t'is very useful... 20180428 23:25:00< celticminstrel> Right. 20180428 23:25:01<+discordbot> perhaps shadowm can use it? 20180428 23:25:24< celticminstrel> Yeah, ISTR he had a separate addon for the music, so it could be used there maybe... if there's any global state that's needed for the music. 20180428 23:25:53< celticminstrel> For an addon that's literally just resources I think you wouldn't actually need the [load_resource]. 20180428 23:25:55<+discordbot> celticminstrel: I can ask Rhonda if changelog.wesnoth.org can be fixed but there are more variations on changelog.wesnoth.org than you think. 20180428 23:26:43< celticminstrel> I think the problem is kinda that https and redirects don't play nice together. 20180428 23:26:47<+discordbot> 1.0changelog.wesnoth.org, 1.0-changelog.wesnoth.org, 1.2changelog.wesnoth.org, 1.2-changelog.wesnoth.org, [...], you get the idea. 20180428 23:26:57<+discordbot> They can be made to work I'm pretty sure. 20180428 23:27:09<+discordbot> It's just a chore. 20180428 23:27:09< celticminstrel> Well, I wouldn't be surprised if there's a way. 20180428 23:27:17< celticminstrel> ...why is each changelog a separate subdomain though. o.O 20180428 23:27:32< celticminstrel> What's wrong with changelog.wesnoth.org/version/? 20180428 23:27:42<+discordbot> Also devchangelog.wesnoth.org, dev-changelog.wesnoth.org, trunkchangelog.wesnoth.org, trunk-changelog.wesnoth.org. 20180428 23:27:48< celticminstrel> o.O 20180428 23:27:49<+discordbot> I didn't make these. 20180428 23:28:12<+discordbot> I only made the jetrel.wesnoth.org redirect IIRC. 20180428 23:28:30<+discordbot> And possibly git.wesnoth.org. 20180428 23:29:24< celticminstrel> ... 20180428 23:29:47<+discordbot> You're very eloquent. 20180428 23:30:09<+discordbot> should i mention something abuout the tutorial? 20180428 23:30:34< celticminstrel> Why thank you. 20180428 23:30:44< celticminstrel> @Vultraz What's changed in the tutorial? 20180428 23:30:50<+discordbot> many things 20180428 23:30:55< celticminstrel> That's too vague. 20180428 23:31:01<+discordbot> I don't remember 20180428 23:31:24<+discordbot> look at the logs if you want an idea 20180428 23:31:40<+discordbot> it was 2016 20180428 23:31:51< celticminstrel> Oh. 20180428 23:32:05< celticminstrel> Well you should be able to remember a bit more than "many things" though. 20180428 23:33:01<+discordbot> there's better text... (ancestral also contributed some of that)... no ending your turn until your actions are done.. 20180428 23:33:07<+discordbot> more specific directions.. 20180428 23:33:20<+discordbot> jesus 20180428 23:33:24<+discordbot> this was 2015 20180428 23:33:26< celticminstrel> Well I guess that's good enough. 20180428 23:33:27<+discordbot> JANUARY 20180428 23:34:38< celticminstrel> I don't see why the time period matters. 20180428 23:34:46<+discordbot> time flies 20180428 23:34:52< celticminstrel> Well true. 20180428 23:38:22< irker032> wesnoth: Charles Dang website:master 756f7f73b562 / start/1.14/template.html: 1.14/Announcement: more text tweaks https://github.com/wesnoth/website/commit/756f7f73b562edd00cfc8b5a4123a65db9aadf22 20180428 23:38:32<+discordbot> (nothing Re tutorial yet) 20180428 23:38:37<+discordbot> nearing final version, though 20180428 23:39:01< celticminstrel> "more aesthetic" uhhhh 20180428 23:39:17< celticminstrel> "more organic" uhhhh... I guess that's not quite so bad but... 20180428 23:39:27<+discordbot> would be better had I gotten my S1 map update committed 20180428 23:39:32<+discordbot> perhaps I'll do that for 1.14.1 20180428 23:39:42<+discordbot> I think I got rid of the stone bridge 20180428 23:39:47<+discordbot> that zookeeper objected to 20180428 23:39:56< celticminstrel> "organic" is questionable but "aesthetic" IMO is a downright misues of the word. 20180428 23:40:14< celticminstrel> Maaaybe you can make an argument for it. 20180428 23:40:27<+discordbot> what's wrong with it? 20180428 23:40:46< celticminstrel> But even if you can make an argument for it I think the phrasing is wrong. 20180428 23:41:35<+discordbot> Yeah, no, replace that word. 20180428 23:41:39< celticminstrel> As an adjective it means roughly "concerned with appearance", but that doesn't describe the map, does it? It describes how the map was made. 20180428 23:41:46<+discordbot> Either it's "aesthetically-pleasing" or something else entirely. 20180428 23:42:11< celticminstrel> You can't substitute "pretty" and similar words with "aesthetic". 20180428 23:42:17< celticminstrel> That just doesn't work. 20180428 23:42:31<+discordbot> fair enough 20180428 23:42:37<+discordbot> Otherwise I'm entitled to call the 1.14.0 milestone with 25% open issues vultraz's aesthetic. 20180428 23:43:07< celticminstrel> I also don't really like the use of the word "organic" there but I guess I can live with that one; at least it's not a downright misuse of the term, it's just... extremely subjective. 20180428 23:43:58< celticminstrel> Is that E person still around who made a lot of icons? 20180428 23:44:23< celticminstrel> Kinda wondering if I can even put my campaign under CC at all... 20180428 23:44:26<+discordbot> oh yeah, we have new icons too 20180428 23:44:44< celticminstrel> Eleazar 20180428 23:44:57<+discordbot> no 20180428 23:45:08<+discordbot> he's been gone for ten thousand years 20180428 23:45:12< celticminstrel> Har har. 20180428 23:45:30< celticminstrel> I'm still technically missing credits for quite a few things though... 20180428 23:45:33< wedge009> What's wrong with just saying '...making use of new terrains and simpler designs'? I don't normally use the word organic to describe something but to me I picture it as in contrast to a rigid structure... so in that sense, 'more organic' would conflict with 'simpler'. 20180428 23:45:40< celticminstrel> https://github.com/CelticMinstrel/BlackCrossOfAleron/blob/master/credits.cfg#L61 20180428 23:45:59< celticminstrel> I suppose I can remove the rat fangs entry since that icon has been mainlined. 20180428 23:46:07< wedge009> Also agree that 'aesthetic' shouldn't be used as an adjective. 20180428 23:46:34<+discordbot> Eleazar still exists just FYI. 20180428 23:46:35<+discordbot> I say organic since, for example, in S2 i moved away from geometrically laid out caves to more random,natural-looking tunnels 20180428 23:46:39<+discordbot> It's just a matter of emailing him probably. 20180428 23:46:43< celticminstrel> Ah. 20180428 23:47:18< celticminstrel> But yeah I wish I could put actual names here rather than the campaigns they came from. 20180428 23:47:19< wedge009> Then 'new terrains and more organic designs' suffices, I would think. 20180428 23:48:01< celticminstrel> Ah I need to update the shadowm entry too. 20180428 23:48:14< irker032> wesnoth: Charles Dang website:master 5fa6d9d739d1 / start/1.14/template.html: 1.14/Announcement: yet another text update https://github.com/wesnoth/website/commit/5fa6d9d739d1831b90d7cc7fb601e4acee011930 20180428 23:48:21<+discordbot> celmin would help if you could look at the actual webpage.. 20180428 23:50:31< celticminstrel> And how am I supposed to do that? 20180428 23:50:39<+discordbot> do you have the website repo? 20180428 23:50:43< celticminstrel> "Download it and open it in the browser" is not a permissible answer. 20180428 23:51:11< celticminstrel> I have no idea what that question means. 20180428 23:51:22<+discordbot> nvm then 20180428 23:51:31< celticminstrel> Unless it means "download it and open it in the browser" in which case, no thanks. 20180428 23:51:48<+discordbot> You'd need to clone wesnoth/website 20180428 23:52:06< celticminstrel> Yeah that's equivalent to "download and open in browser". 20180428 23:52:53< celticminstrel> Wonder when Pentarctagon is going to open a PR for adding dunefolk non-MP units. 20180428 23:53:47< celticminstrel> Y'know, the unit overlays system is kinda broken, isn't it? Overlays are expected to be an image the same size as the unit and there's no way to ensure compatibility between multiple overlays AFAIK. 20180428 23:54:57< celticminstrel> @doofus-01, I'm pretty sure there were never male fighters anyway...? 20180428 23:55:16 * celticminstrel hopes that ping works, it's kinda a shot in the dark. >_> 20180428 23:55:25< celticminstrel> Or scouts either. 20180428 23:56:44< celticminstrel> I kinda wonder why someone put gender=female in male-only unit lines in the first place... it doesn't actually set the unit's gender to female, does it? 20180428 23:57:54< celticminstrel> Oh beetlenaut was even recently online. :/ 20180428 23:58:27< celticminstrel> What was the exact effect of marksman again... 20180428 23:58:39< celticminstrel> "Always have a 60% chance to hit", right? --- Log closed Sun Apr 29 00:00:00 2018