--- Log opened Sun Apr 29 00:00:01 2018 --- Day changed Sun Apr 29 2018 20180429 00:00:00< celticminstrel> ^at least a 20180429 00:00:03<+discordbot> I have no idea what you’re saying 20180429 00:00:19< celticminstrel> Am I switching topics too quickly for you? 20180429 00:00:38<+discordbot> Yes 20180429 00:00:42< celticminstrel> ...it's already 8 pm. :( 20180429 00:00:48<+discordbot> And yes the ping did work 20180429 00:00:50< celticminstrel> And I haven't made supper yet. D: 20180429 00:01:58<+discordbot> Just order something with postmates 20180429 00:02:06< celticminstrel> ??? 20180429 00:02:24<+discordbot> Or maybe they don’t exist in Canadia 20180429 00:02:49< celticminstrel> You're surely not expecting me to use some seedy centralized takeout ordering service. 20180429 00:03:10< celticminstrel> Owned by a giant multinational corporation who would steal my data and sell it to the highest bidders. 20180429 00:03:41< celticminstrel> When I could just as easily just directly call up a specific takeout place that I want food from and order it directly from there. 20180429 00:03:55< celticminstrel> I'm just assuming that this is what you meant by postmates, maybe I'm reading too much into it. 20180429 00:03:58<+discordbot> “Ah yes we now have the valuable data that celmin enjoys Chinese and can sell targeted ad space for Chinese food!” 20180429 00:04:02<+discordbot> You can actually make male-only units female with gender=female. 20180429 00:04:24< celticminstrel> Yes, that is in fact grossly valuable data, so I'd prefer not to share it with someone I don't know. 20180429 00:04:35<+discordbot> You’re odd 20180429 00:04:42< celticminstrel> @shadowm - If that's the case, then maybe there's no point in e86857? 20180429 00:04:54< celticminstrel> You're odd too @Vultraz so that makes us even. :) 20180429 00:05:05<+discordbot> Your statement implies you’d be ok sharing it if it wasn’t valuable 20180429 00:05:15<+discordbot> Their own strings and animations are obviously not going to change, but those strings that are defined elsewhere and do support a female variation (e.g. the race name, trait names, abilities, weapon specials) are affected. 20180429 00:05:29< celticminstrel> That supposes there's a possibility that it's not valuable, which is a false assumption, so. 20180429 00:06:24<+discordbot> But the corollary is that data is shareable if not valuable 20180429 00:06:39<+discordbot> But as it is valuable, never shareable 20180429 00:06:49< celticminstrel> There's no such thing as not-valuable data, so yes that corollary is true but it is irrelevant. 20180429 00:07:18< celticminstrel> There may be data that's not valuable to specific people, I suppose. 20180429 00:07:26<+discordbot> celticminstrel - I don't know, maybe there were plans for female fighters? Or it had something to do with the bolas-throwing elves (hunters I think?) 20180429 00:07:33< celticminstrel> But there will certainly be other people for whome that data is valuable. 20180429 00:07:50< celticminstrel> @doofus-01 - That is actually a possibility with the fighters, huh... 20180429 00:07:54<+discordbot> But it’s odd that your objection is not one of privacy but one or value 20180429 00:07:56<+discordbot> Of 20180429 00:08:02<+discordbot> Since you cannot use this data 20180429 00:08:07< celticminstrel> There's no equivalent of the hunter or archer, right? 20180429 00:08:12<+discordbot> You lose no value if someone else knows you order Chinese 20180429 00:08:25<+discordbot> Since you cannot yourself market yourself as liking Chinese 20180429 00:08:35<+discordbot> Since you are not famous and therefor cannot do a sponsorship 20180429 00:08:45< celticminstrel> Yes, it's a question of privacy, not sure why you'd assume otherwise. 20180429 00:09:01< celticminstrel> Technically you don't need to be famous to sponsor something, though I suppose it helps/ 20180429 00:10:16<+discordbot> The hunters & archers are kind of like the antelope riders, but no, the old line-up doesn't match 1:1 with the new. 20180429 00:10:56< celticminstrel> The antelope riders are the scouts, right? 20180429 00:11:43 * celticminstrel looks at units.wesnoth.org. 20180429 00:11:51< celticminstrel> ...still has the moon singer, huh. 20180429 00:11:57< celticminstrel> Hasn't updated that recent;y? 20180429 00:12:00<+discordbot> Probably hasn’t been updated 20180429 00:12:13< celticminstrel> There's actually only four unit lines. 20180429 00:12:35< celticminstrel> ... 20180429 00:12:44< celticminstrel> Wait why are the Quenoth listed under "Elves"? 20180429 00:13:16< celticminstrel> Oh, the normal elves also only have four unit lines, okay then. 20180429 00:14:28<+discordbot> The units.w.o update timestamp is at the bottom. 20180429 00:14:35< celticminstrel> Oh, wait, I guess the 1.14 u.w.o just isn't up yet so I was looking at the master one. 20180429 00:14:40<+discordbot> Which reminds me I need to rearrange the whole thing for 1.14. 20180429 00:14:52< celticminstrel> Last updated April 13. 20180429 00:15:09<+discordbot> And figure out what went wrong. 20180429 00:15:25<+discordbot> hm 20180429 00:15:32<+discordbot> I had a design idea for the announcement 20180429 00:15:35<+discordbot> That I didn't have before 20180429 00:15:36<+discordbot> 🤔 20180429 00:15:39< celticminstrel> Uh-oh. 20180429 00:16:27<+discordbot> I wonder if we could take the big, full-screen screenshots and display them as anchored background images like the one at the top of the page, instead of as thumbnails 🤔 20180429 00:16:35<+discordbot> I mean, ok, everything is technically possible 20180429 00:16:39<+discordbot> but would it look good... 20180429 00:16:49< celticminstrel> There's only one way to find out. 20180429 00:16:53<+discordbot> I'm not going to make changes like that at this point., 20180429 00:17:05<+discordbot> Also. 20180429 00:17:13<+discordbot> What you are proposing would literally drive me insane. 20180429 00:17:30<+discordbot> so you understand what I am proposing? 20180429 00:17:32<+discordbot> I hate when designers decide that I need to load 10 MiB worth of assets to display a page. 20180429 00:17:39<+discordbot> Or more. 20180429 00:17:44< celticminstrel> Ahhh yes that's a very good point. 20180429 00:17:57<+discordbot> I guess it's far less if it's JPEG but still. 20180429 00:18:14<+discordbot> And for them to look good? They'd have to be blended into the design. 20180429 00:18:59<+discordbot> Guess I should have come up with this earlier 20180429 00:18:59<+discordbot> I'd have to do that in the GIMP and basically have a second copy of every screenshot, since otherwise there'd be several issues with the idea without bringing in a Javascript image manipulation library that'd make phones explode. 20180429 00:19:57< celticminstrel> This is not an endorsement or anything, but I'm pretty sure blending can be done in CSS somehow? 20180429 00:19:58<+discordbot> It'd still be clunky unless the design was made so that every section could take up at least a screenful. 20180429 00:20:09<+discordbot> Not quite the way that is needed in this case. 20180429 00:20:14< celticminstrel> I see. 20180429 00:20:33<+discordbot> The only standarized mechanism is alpha-blending. In this case more advanced colour transforms would be needed for it to look good. 20180429 00:20:43<+discordbot> Alpha-blending is too amateurish. 20180429 00:21:23<+discordbot> Well, I wasn't imagining blending. More like just bordered "viewports" 20180429 00:21:23<+discordbot> And yes, Blink and Webkit support more advanced filters but those are Blink and Webkit, and that still poses extra work for the target UA and hardware. 20180429 00:21:25<+discordbot> but nevermind 20180429 00:21:48<+discordbot> If you don't have blending then the text will look weird. 20180429 00:21:52< celticminstrel> I don't even know what Blink is. 20180429 00:22:21<+discordbot> Unless we kept repeating the text box trick from the cover area, but then its uniqueness factor is reduced to zero. 20180429 00:22:36<+discordbot> I'm not a fan of it to be honest. 20180429 00:23:01<+discordbot> I only acceded because the alternative is commissioning art specifically tailored to the announcement's design. 20180429 00:23:25-!- esr1 [~esr@thyrsus.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180429 00:24:35<+discordbot> I actually wasn't imagining text over the sections at all. What I was thinking was more along the lines of just.... imagine the area where the main menu screenshot is now was a "viewport" to the same image anchored in the background, that could potentially grow and shrink height-wise to allow at least one full-screen view of the image. No text floating over it or anything 20180429 00:24:53<+discordbot> but yeah, nevermind 20180429 00:24:56<+discordbot> t'was just an idea 20180429 00:26:05<+discordbot> Are you trying to say Lightbox? 20180429 00:26:13<+discordbot> I'm not sure if that's what you're trying to say but 20180429 00:26:15<+discordbot> I don't know what a lightbox is 20180429 00:31:06<+discordbot> @shadowm something like this: https://www.w3schools.com/howto/tryhow_css_parallax_demo.htm 20180429 00:33:07<+discordbot> or, well, exactly like that, really 20180429 00:37:04<+discordbot> like, the "scroll down" part would be our header and dl buttons, then the part explaining about parallax scrolling would be the "What's new in this update" blurb, then the next part would be the main menu image as background, etc 20180429 00:41:43<+discordbot> The Quenoth Youth advancements can sort of be all over the place, they don't just have a simple fork. At least that's how it looks to me... That's cool, but doesn't lend itself to changing the sprites upon upgrade. 20180429 00:44:19<+discordbot> I guess I'll just round out the existing sprites with leading and bolas animations. 20180429 00:45:47< irker032> wesnoth/wesnoth:master pentarctagon 87ba7df905 Adds OpenGL/GLEW checks to scons. AppVeyor: All builds passed 20180429 00:48:57< celticminstrel> Yeah, it'd be a huge amount of work to sprite out all the Youth advancements and probably not worth it TBH. 20180429 00:52:45<+discordbot> celticminstrel: if you're still looking for words to replace marksman for melee 20180429 00:52:52<+discordbot> you could always use something like adept or def 20180429 00:52:55<+discordbot> deft* 20180429 00:53:00< celticminstrel> Hmm. 20180429 00:53:29< celticminstrel> I can't say they're not suitable, but they seem to have the same problem as most of the others, which is that they apply equally well to ranged, I think? 20180429 00:53:49<+discordbot> is that a problem? o_o 20180429 00:54:00<+discordbot> I was just thinking that you don't want it to apply only to ranged, which is what marksman implies 20180429 00:54:03< celticminstrel> I'd prefer not to change the name of marksman but I'm starting to think it's actually the best option. 20180429 00:54:10<+discordbot> that is, marksman is a "ranged only" term 20180429 00:54:23< celticminstrel> Oh, it's only a problem if we're keeping marksman for ranged and using a different term for melee. 20180429 00:54:34<+discordbot> if you want a melee-only term, I guess you could use swordsmanship 20180429 00:54:43< celticminstrel> Yeah but they might not be swords. 20180429 00:54:50<+discordbot> indeed 20180429 00:54:55< celticminstrel> Still, adept and deft don't seem as good as accurate or precise to me. 20180429 00:55:27 * celticminstrel checks accurate in a thesaurus... 20180429 00:55:55<+discordbot> deft refers to skillfulness, usually in terms of agility 20180429 00:55:58<+discordbot> it's a rather specific word 20180429 00:56:24<+discordbot> adept is "very able", usually referring to a certain degree of mastery that is not expert-level 20180429 00:56:29< celticminstrel> Mmhm. 20180429 00:56:51<+discordbot> my opinion is that we should not use precision, as other eras use that special already 20180429 00:56:58< celticminstrel> Neither strongly suggests an increased hit chance though, whereas both accurate and precise imply that perfectly. 20180429 00:57:12<+discordbot> despite them being UMC, it would be nice to be mindful of that 20180429 00:57:57< celticminstrel> On an unrelated note, I wonder what kind of mechanical effect an ability called "riposte" would have. 20180429 00:58:30<+discordbot> accurate is probably just fine, especially since it is most likely to be the easiest out of those for non-native english speakers to understand 20180429 00:58:31<+discordbot> and to translate 20180429 00:59:07<+discordbot> it may be a rudimentary term, but it gets the point across 20180429 00:59:45< celticminstrel> There's a minor issue in that "accuracy" already has a meaning in weapons, but... it's not shown in the UI by that name so it's probably okay. 20180429 01:03:13<+discordbot> well, one is an adjective and one is a noun if that helps any 20180429 01:05:04< celticminstrel> True. 20180429 01:18:36-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180429 01:26:30< mattsc> @Vultraz celticminstrel: I wasn’t around for the last day and half or so … 20180429 01:29:01< mattsc> celticminstrel: I am not sure that I could do this better than you, as you did most of the changes, but anyway. (Also, a lot of the AI changes are probably too technical/implementation-only/whatever-the-right-word-is for a release announcement, but I am sure there are some that can/should be added.) 20180429 01:29:25< mattsc> Is there a link to what’s already been written on other topics, so that I can gauge what level of detail is desired? 20180429 01:31:24<+discordbot> https://raw.githubusercontent.com/wesnoth/website/master/start/1.14/template.html 20180429 01:35:06< mattsc> Thanks 20180429 01:35:42-!- ToBeCloud [uid51591@wikimedia/ToBeFree] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 20180429 01:37:29< mattsc> Okay, so just a paragraph or so describing some of the highlights, rather than a bulleted list of all the changes… 20180429 01:37:45<+discordbot> yes 20180429 01:37:49<+discordbot> a brief overview 20180429 01:37:54<+discordbot> one or two examples 20180429 01:38:12< mattsc> I’ll start going through the individual release announcements to remind myself what was done in 1.13 and pick a couple examples. 20180429 01:38:15<+discordbot> this is a press release not documentation 20180429 01:38:22< mattsc> Right. 20180429 01:38:48< mattsc> Sorry, haven’t had time to catch up with the log yet ... 20180429 01:53:54-!- esr1 [~esr@thyrsus.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1] 20180429 01:54:02-!- esr1 [~esr@thyrsus.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180429 01:56:46< irker032> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master 69d7413a75ae / src/ (display.cpp display.hpp scripting/game_lua_kernel.cpp): Display: some code cleanup https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/69d7413a75ae7e77a63d5e6d7cf521287264e12d 20180429 01:56:49< irker032> wesnoth: ln-zookeeper wesnoth:master 911347869053 / data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/ (9 files in 2 dirs): UtBS: Use core portraits for Esanoo, Rogrimir and Grog https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/911347869053b993496ff60002cab169f3bda398 20180429 01:56:49-!- esr [~esr@wesnoth/developer/esr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20180429 01:56:51< irker032> wesnoth: ln-zookeeper wesnoth:master 4956bfcbbab0 / data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/scenarios/ (08_Out_of_the_Frying_Pan.cfg 11_Battle_for_Zocthanol_Isle.cfg): UtBS: Avoid random traits for Eloh's appearances https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/4956bfcbbab01c94ea0242421d2ce826912ccbaf 20180429 01:56:53< irker032> wesnoth: ln-zookeeper wesnoth:master cd00b55d2af9 / data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/scenarios/09_Blood_is_Thicker_Than_Water.cfg: UtBS S09: Avoid random gender and traits for Hekuba https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/cd00b55d2af938b908a09e213ad7d2b46a046d98 20180429 01:56:55< irker032> wesnoth: ln-zookeeper wesnoth:master ab1de53b4ae1 / data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/units/quenoth/Youth.cfg: UtBS: Include both Kaleh and Nym in Quenoth Youth unit description https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/ab1de53b4ae16b579690ef00caef29da4b316307 20180429 01:59:24< celticminstrel> mattsc: I think one of my problems with doing it myself was deciding particularly what to hilite, so... 20180429 02:00:06< celticminstrel> Like should we mention the more unified syntax for simplified aspect specification, or is that not worth a mention? 20180429 02:00:28< celticminstrel> Exactly to what degree should we mention the changes to how Lua external CAs work? 20180429 02:00:42< mattsc> celticminstrel: sure, no worries. I’m currently picking things out of the release announcements, will send it to you and vultraz for comments hopefully in ~30 min. 20180429 02:00:50< mattsc> I’m ruthlessly cutting out details. :P 20180429 02:00:51< celticminstrel> 'kay 20180429 02:01:01< celticminstrel> Nice. I'm not ruthless enough. >_> 20180429 02:01:10< celticminstrel> Which is really bad for an aspiring writer probably. 20180429 02:01:11< mattsc> Heh. 20180429 02:01:48< mattsc> I’m not good at it either, but I’ll try. 20180429 02:02:59< celticminstrel> Another thing I don't know whether is worth mentioning is, modifying recruitment jobs with [modify_ai] 20180429 02:03:17-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180429 02:03:18< celticminstrel> Like with a path of aspect[recruitment_instructions].facet[something].recruit[] 20180429 02:05:58< mattsc> I am currently saying that the [modify_ai] functionality has been expaneded. 20180429 02:06:10< mattsc> Not more, not less on that topic. 20180429 02:06:38< mattsc> If vultraz really only wants a paragraph or two, that’s all there’s space for (and more would be out of proportion with the other topics,IMO) 20180429 02:07:27< celticminstrel> Fair. 20180429 02:24:05< mattsc> @Vultraz celticminstrel: first attempt: https://pastebin.com/1r8L0FLu 20180429 02:24:55< mattsc> Feel free to use as is or toss out and change entirely; or let me know what else might be needed. Either way is fine by me. 20180429 02:25:47< celticminstrel> Seems decent to me. 20180429 02:26:16< mattsc> celticminstrel: Thanks. I clearly shows my bias toward AI behavior rather than functionality, so please add anything on the latter you think should be added. 20180429 02:27:23< celticminstrel> I don't think any of the config-based things are worth expanding on in more detail for a press release. 20180429 02:27:40< celticminstrel> Your one example ([modify_ai]) seems good enough. 20180429 02:27:48< mattsc> Yeah, that’s what I was thinking too. 20180429 02:28:22< celticminstrel> I mean, I can think of probably two or three or maybe four other things I could mention, but I don't think they're really important enough to give them that much focus. 20180429 02:29:41< mattsc> Okay, well, I’ll leave that up to you. I’m fine with adding some more. Or not. 20180429 02:53:07< mattsc> I’ll have to be off again. Crazy times continue… I’ll check back in tomorrow. 20180429 02:56:17-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has quit [Quit: So long and thanks for all the fish.] 20180429 02:56:33-!- gfgtdf [~chatzilla@x4e363c56.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.93 [Firefox 52.7.3/20180322140748]] 20180429 03:03:14< celticminstrel> BTW, there's a facility for localizing image assets, right? 20180429 03:04:18< irker032> wesnoth/wesnoth:1.14 doofus-01 ac3d9e1d5a smashed tree is no longer a terrain, jus AppVeyor: All builds passed 20180429 03:09:12< irker032> wesnoth: Celtic Minstrel wesnoth:master 07e465e57b38 / data/lua/wml/message.lua: Support male_voice and female_voice in [message] https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/07e465e57b389f7ebacecbc7511411bb5685614a 20180429 03:18:23< celticminstrel> I'm wondering what level that's implemented as and whether it would be difficult to extend it to audio assets. 20180429 03:18:50< celticminstrel> ^at not as 20180429 05:34:12-!- celticminstrel is now known as celmin|sleep 20180429 05:44:53-!- boucman [~rosen@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180429 05:53:46< irker032> wesnoth/wesnoth:master gfgtdf d31e74aee0 improve mp sync waiting message AppVeyor: All builds passed 20180429 06:29:03<+discordbot> celticminstrel: It's implemented in the image cache code in 1.14. Apparently the code disappeared from master due to some of the changes that were merged recetntly. 20180429 07:06:00-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180429 07:06:04<+discordbot> master branch no longer use libgthread dependence? I can build it without libgthread and it runs just fine (so far) 20180429 07:22:35-!- boucman [~rosen@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180429 07:31:43< irker032> wesnoth/wesnoth:master Byteron 9bd05fc981 changed a few date numbers in Son of the AppVeyor: All builds passed 20180429 07:36:42-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180429 07:36:48-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180429 07:44:16<+discordbot> The forums quicklings don't seem to work properly (new posts, your posts etc). new posts and unread posts are always marked red, even when the entire forum has been marked read, whereas your posts, never indicate there are new posts, because it's never red, even if there are new ones. 20180429 07:48:23<+discordbot> I don't think the colours are supposed to reflect anything. 20180429 07:49:24<+discordbot> Yup, just checked the template, they are hard-coded. 20180429 07:54:39<+discordbot> I see. Weird. 20180429 08:16:14<+discordbot> The "sticky scroll" is caused by SDL event being lost somewhere between events::pump(), command_executor and controller_base. Abstract base classes make debugging so much worse. 20180429 08:17:45<+discordbot> Do you have a method to reproduce it reliably? 20180429 08:24:11<+discordbot> No. It reproduces for me after I scroll around for a while. Seems to happen more often if I hold a key, and then press the opposite direction. 20180429 08:25:02<+discordbot> I guess it's easier to reproduce with high CPU load, in order for the event queue to hiccup. 20180429 08:26:49<+discordbot> Current hypothesis is that it gets filtered out in command_executor::filter_command_queue(). I added some logging and here's what I see: SDL keydown: DOWN at events::pump(1) after SDL_PollEvent SDL keydown: DOWN at events::pump(3) before events.push_back SDL keyup: DOWN at events::pump(1) after SDL_PollEvent SDL keyup: DOWN at events::pump(3) before events.push_back SDL keydown: DOWN at events::pump(5) in events::pump() mainloop SDL 20180429 08:26:50<+discordbot> keyup: DOWN at events::pump(5) in events::pump() mainloop command_executor: handling keyup command_executor: sending release event (release = true) command_executor:filter: approving cmd scroll-down release=0 command_executor:filter: filtering out scroll-down release=1 20180429 08:31:39<+discordbot> Yeah, seems to be that. 20180429 08:32:57< irker032> wesnoth/wesnoth:master Byteron 3835586f03 changed a few date numbers in Son of the AppVeyor: All builds passed 20180429 08:33:25<+discordbot> Looks like command_executor::press_event_sent_ is intended to do the same. 20180429 08:34:28<+discordbot> The intent of filtering out duplicate commands is that the action isn't executed twice (once because of SDL_KEYDOWN and once because of SDL_TEXTINPUT). 20180429 08:34:49<+discordbot> And press_event_sent_ exists so that holding down the key sends only one press event. 20180429 08:36:40<+discordbot> Clear. Can you please satisfy my curiosity, why do we have two separate fields in, for example queued_command: bool press; bool release; ? 20180429 08:37:28<+discordbot> There are three kinds of key events. 20180429 08:37:41<+discordbot> Press event, when the player presses the key. 20180429 08:37:55<+discordbot> Hold events, generated continuously while the key is held down. 20180429 08:38:04<+discordbot> And release event, when the player lets go. 20180429 08:40:33<+discordbot> Thanks, that's what I thought. 20180429 08:57:23<+discordbot> Garak's berserk in UtBS is not working for me. 20180429 09:04:40< zookeeper> it only works against the undead champions (and maybe leaders too) 20180429 09:04:52< zookeeper> one of many things still left to revise in UtBS 20180429 09:06:04<+discordbot> @shadowm would it be possible to bump line-height for

to 1.1? 20180429 09:06:26<+discordbot> Why? 20180429 09:06:37<+discordbot> It's larger than that right now. 20180429 09:06:54<+discordbot> oh. 20180429 09:06:57<+discordbot> well,slightly larger. 20180429 09:07:04<+discordbot> Why? 20180429 09:09:20<+discordbot> Oh, I can test this in-browser. 20180429 09:09:45<+discordbot> let mesee if it actually looks better in the very text-heavy sections 20180429 09:12:29<+discordbot> 1.7 -> 1.85 seems to look good. 20180429 09:12:34<+discordbot> what do you think? 20180429 09:12:46<+discordbot> I think I'm on my phone right now. 20180429 09:14:13< irker032> wesnoth: Charles Dang website:master 5cd1fd7f8350 / start/1.14/template.html: 1.14/Announcement: added mattsc's AI blurbs https://github.com/wesnoth/website/commit/5cd1fd7f8350c95e76e30d2b013a000a4e97a22f 20180429 09:15:05<+discordbot> @zookeeper I forward-ported your UtBS changes so you no longer have to 😐 20180429 09:16:06<+discordbot> You should've filed a bug report and forced him to do it himself instead. 20180429 09:16:22< irker032> wesnoth: Charles Dang website:master 473815ebccb6 / start/1.14/template.html: 1.14/Announcement: loooooohhhhhhh https://github.com/wesnoth/website/commit/473815ebccb6202901039459e320d554de70e638 20180429 09:16:27< irker032> wesnoth/wesnoth:1.14 Victor Sergienko 17d80a241a #2971 Scrolling with arrow keys can get AppVeyor: vs2015/Release Failed 20180429 09:16:28< irker032> Details: https://ci.appveyor.com/project/wesnoth/wesnoth-7lnpw/build/Wesnoth-VS2015-1.14-2964 20180429 09:16:34<+discordbot> You won't be able to keep track later on, trust me. I tried but people made it really difficult for me back in the day. 20180429 09:19:55< Ivanovic> uhm, what changed in the master build system? 20180429 09:20:06< zookeeper> well, i still wasn't in any danger of magically forgetting to forward-port them. 20180429 09:20:07< Ivanovic> i seem to no longer be able to update po files using cmake (still works nicely with 1.14) 20180429 09:20:33<+discordbot> Zookeeper for the love of 20180429 09:20:47<+discordbot> Yes you can magically become unable to DO it. 20180429 09:21:54<+discordbot> Exactly how many times do I have to explain the hit-by-a-bus principle so it'll get through that thick skull of yours? And then people complain about vultraz not listening to reason. 20180429 09:22:52<+discordbot> It's been years and years and yet you still sit there all comfy either believing that nothing can go wrong or that there aren't people relying on you. 20180429 09:23:24< Ivanovic> @Pentarctagon this one looks strange... https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/3effecdb069dad3036011ddb47f07d56e8ded121 20180429 09:23:34<+discordbot> That attitude coming from a number of people who are not around anymore has royally screwed us over several times over the last 10 years. 20180429 09:23:37< Ivanovic> there is no "NLS" variable in cmake, did you mean "ENABLE_NLS"? 20180429 09:24:03<+discordbot> If it weren't for that 1.14.0 wouldn't have taken as long as it did to get into a releasable shape. 20180429 09:24:35< Ivanovic> @Pentarctagon please check the 2nd part of that commit, I will at least fix the CMakeLists.txt to allow me to update po files... 20180429 09:30:45< irker032> wesnoth: Nils Kneuper wesnoth:master 64fe3988d87b / CMakeLists.txt: fixed issues with building translation via cmake https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/64fe3988d87b61e40199297d710c035d85dedd49 20180429 09:30:47< irker032> wesnoth: Nils Kneuper wesnoth:master f677e3f2ad5f / po/ (wesnoth-help/it.po wesnoth/it.po): updated Italian translation https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/f677e3f2ad5fc5a222a75d86e9d2595fca68a970 20180429 09:30:49< irker032> wesnoth: Nils Kneuper wesnoth:master ce35c7b7bf25 / po/wesnoth-thot/sk.po: update Slovak translation https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/ce35c7b7bf252e57ce30ff75b6c8410a60d11d8c 20180429 09:30:51< irker032> wesnoth: Nils Kneuper wesnoth:1.14 151b571f7aa2 / po/ (wesnoth-help/it.po wesnoth/it.po): updated Italian translation https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/151b571f7aa2f211e43ccca0335aad3d26679bcd 20180429 09:30:53< irker032> wesnoth: Nils Kneuper wesnoth:1.14 4eb40da08bee / changelog.md players_changelog.md po/wesnoth-thot/sk.po: update Slovak translation https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/4eb40da08beeee4d3972a627a4c2b1e37d6e9c3a 20180429 09:32:23< irker032> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:1.14 5149e65449b1 / src/ (5 files in 3 dirs): fix handling of no_leader= (again) https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/5149e65449b12374bf3c367f1cd3d01469c39416 20180429 09:32:25< irker032> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:1.14 c01b2b2847fa / src/editor/map/map_context.cpp: editor: don't write default values when saving a scenario https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/c01b2b2847fac6cd7ccbbf3c17fa0dc851964cce 20180429 09:32:27<+discordbot> found two more commits by gfgtdf that never got to 1.14. and at least 1 of them looks like a bug fix 20180429 09:32:34<+discordbot> 😒 20180429 09:34:13< zookeeper> @shadowm, none of those people were actually hit by the proverbial bus (as far as i know), they simply forgot or didn't care, yes? in any case, we're talking about taking 3-4 days to port some (unimportant) commits, which i don't think is an unreasonable transgression considering the negligible odds of me getting murdered during that timeframe. 20180429 09:35:16< zookeeper> although i should totally set up a dead man's switch email announcement thingy just in case, i've occasionally thought of that for quite a while now. 20180429 09:36:37-!- gallaecio [~quassel@188.79.96.255] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180429 09:39:23<+discordbot> Some of them we don't actually know for sure what happened to them, they just completely vanished. 20180429 09:40:07<+discordbot> Others just lost interest and moved onto other projects without telling us or taking care of any loose ends in Wesnoth first. 20180429 09:40:22<+discordbot> Others just left for less palatable reasons. 20180429 09:40:57<+discordbot> The common pattern for all of them is that they were very active until they abruptly stopped contributing. 20180429 09:41:47<+discordbot> You can't guarantee that you won't fall into any of those categories tomorrow or even 2 hours from now, so just stop postponing basic work that should be trivial to you after two stable release series using Git as our version control system. 20180429 09:44:24<+discordbot> This goes for gfgtdf as well. You can come up with any technical excuses you want, but none of that lessens the responsibility we all hold as members of the project with read-write access to the mainline repository. 20180429 09:48:32< zookeeper> fine, fine, i'll try. 20180429 09:51:13< zookeeper> although i might also take this opportunity to say that if i go AWOL for many days, let's say a week, and don't even respond to an e-mail, then it should be safe to assume i'm involuntarily either dead, incapacitated, detained, or something to that effect. 20180429 09:53:16-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180429 10:04:01< irker032> wesnoth: Iris Morelle website:master a5ce94a3343e / start/1.14/ (css/lintanir.css css/lintanir.css.map sass/_defs.scss sass/lintanir.scss): announcement/1.14: Increase global line-height per Vultraz's suggestion https://github.com/wesnoth/website/commit/a5ce94a3343e20a6df327776d48eaf3d3706abe4 20180429 10:05:58<+discordbot> @Vultraz First paragraph of the main content area has a can-can situation: "a brand new solo campaign [...] and a brand new multiplayer lobby". 20180429 10:08:32<+discordbot> "There are new generic portraits available for several units too, including the Walking Corpse and Soulless." -- Any more interesting units? You'd be hard-pressed to find a scenario where WCs have lines unless it's an oversight on the author's part. 20180429 10:09:15<+discordbot> One adjective you might consider for water and lava animations is "fluid" but I'm not sure if that could upset the pun-haters in the audience. 20180429 10:10:06<+discordbot> The description for SotA at the start of the Campaigns section still has the TODO marker I left there. 20180429 10:10:37<+discordbot> Can someone take a look and see if the description we wrote is actually correct? 20180429 10:11:21<+discordbot> (Also, you used https for LordBob's web site but not West's.) 20180429 10:13:15<+discordbot> The last paragraph of the Campaigns section is using bold text to highlight key points, contrary to what you told me to do for the 1.12 announcement. :p 20180429 10:13:36<+discordbot> Maybe SotA, UtBS, NR, and DiD above deserve the same treatment? 20180429 10:14:21<+discordbot> The punctuation in the first paragraph of the MP section seems a bit off. 20180429 10:14:29<+discordbot> "With the addition of clickable links in the chat log and separate tabs for private message exchanges, easier filtering of games and players, faster game creation for those using a map author’s recommended settings, and a more comprehensive display of faction attributes." 20180429 10:14:44<+discordbot> The way the sentence starts, it sounds like it's leading up to something but nothing ever happens. 20180429 10:15:41<+discordbot> The MP section ends up in a weird note with the mention of the forfeit feature as kind of a footnote compared to the other points. 20180429 10:16:21< irker032> wesnoth/wesnoth:1.14 doofus-01 9c220c6d86 edit first scenario to remove female gen AppVeyor: All builds passed 20180429 10:16:26<+discordbot> I hope translators will get what you mean by "there is a preference for [keeping music playing when the game loses focus]". 20180429 10:16:45<+discordbot> It could be parsed as 'preference' as in "personal preference" rather than an option in the UI. 20180429 10:18:01<+discordbot> How about chaning it to "option", then? (I wrote that paragraph.) 20180429 10:18:32<+discordbot> Yeah, although I tend to leave the rewording of things like that to Vultraz for a good reason. 20180429 10:18:52<+discordbot> Whenever I do it in my campaigns he always comes up with an excuse to rephrase it a third or fourth time. 20180429 10:19:36<+discordbot> West's site isn't fully https 20180429 10:19:40<+discordbot> "Note that while legacy option of storing said files in the game's installation path is gone" -- whoops, this was probably me. I skipped a "the". 20180429 10:19:50<+discordbot> no, that was me 20180429 10:19:59<+discordbot> I reworded your text 20180429 10:20:43<+discordbot> "This change does not retroactively affect any files previously published under the GNU GPL unless the copyright holder chooses to relicense said resources." 20180429 10:20:46<+discordbot> "With the addition of clickable links in the chat log" is your bit, though 20180429 10:20:59<+discordbot> I saw this earlier. Apparently someone believes "relicense" is a better term than "dual-license". 20180429 10:21:07<+discordbot> Maybe it is for users, but it's technically inaccurate. 20180429 10:21:08<+discordbot> me 20180429 10:21:23<+discordbot> technically inaccurate? 20180429 10:21:31<+discordbot> You can't relicense something that's already been published under the GNU GPL unless you replace it with a fresh work under a different license. 20180429 10:21:53<+discordbot> .....what?? 20180429 10:21:55<+discordbot> If it's the same work or a derivative thereof, you are required to keep using the GNU GPL. 20180429 10:22:09<+discordbot> oh for the love of god... 20180429 10:22:14<+discordbot> You can dual/triple/n license, but the whole point of the GNU GPL is that it's irrevocable. 20180429 10:22:20<+discordbot> You really are supposed to know this already. 20180429 10:22:29<+discordbot> the GPL can go burn in a fire >_> 20180429 10:22:42<+discordbot> You agreed to this when you started contributing to Wesnoth too. 20180429 10:23:13<+discordbot> I want to go to sleep so I'll spare you the full rant on why this can actually legit be a good thing. 20180429 10:23:29<+discordbot> If there are upsides I don't see it. 20180429 10:23:56<+discordbot> Of course not, because you've never had your work stolen and repurposed by a proprietary vendor. 20180429 10:24:00<+discordbot> (Or would care much about it.) 20180429 10:24:26<+discordbot> I would care, but I would not use the GPL to take them down. 20180429 10:24:31<+discordbot> Others have however, and the whole point of copyleft licenses is to protect the authors against people privatizing their work. 20180429 10:25:19<+discordbot> If Wesnoth's code wasn't published under the GNU GPL, I would be allowed to make a superior proprietary version of it and never release the sources back for you to incorporate my improvements. 20180429 10:25:37<+discordbot> To have it also unrevocable by the author themselves seems absurd. 20180429 10:26:05<+discordbot> It is possible for you to stop releasing new versions of the IP under the GNU GPL. 20180429 10:26:42<+discordbot> However, not only is that morally questionable, but also anyone can take the previous versions and produce exactly what you did, protected by the GNU GPL's guarantees with regards to the production of derivative works. 20180429 10:27:09< zookeeper> it would also be absurd to receive a work with a particular license and be expected to know if the author later revokes it. 20180429 10:27:57<+discordbot> Also, and I'm really not bullshitting here, why should we be entitled to your work if you made a superior version of wesnoth? Disregarding the GPL and just considering the situation as given, if you made a better version, there's no logical reason I or anyone else should have a right to that work if you chose not to give it. 20180429 10:28:12<+discordbot> It would be your work. 20180429 10:28:17<+discordbot> It's not my work. 20180429 10:28:37<+discordbot> Wesnoth is copyrighted by a bunch of people who came before me, after me, and also me as well. 20180429 10:29:36<+discordbot> If I took their collective efforts and released it under a license that is by definition incompatible with the GNU GPL by not providing that guarantee that I must release the source code to my modifications, I would be infringing on the license and the copyrights held by every single contributor. 20180429 10:30:09<+discordbot> I don't think this scenario has been tested in court yet, but it would theoretically constitute violation of copyright law first and foremost. 20180429 10:30:36<+discordbot> Because I'd be willfully ignoring a crucial requirement imposed on me by the license. 20180429 10:31:03<+discordbot> This is not too different from taking someone's art and claiming it as yours and profiting from it, etc. 20180429 10:32:29<+discordbot> I'd be violating the rights that the authors have on their work. 20180429 10:33:00<+discordbot> And one of those rights when said work is licensed under a copyleft license is that all derivative works must be fully disclosed. 20180429 10:35:21<+discordbot> Anyway, back on topic 20180429 10:35:24<+discordbot> "and many new functions have been added to the Lua API, as well as the ability to write map generators using Lua" 20180429 10:35:32<+discordbot> That "as well" really should be a "such as". 20180429 10:35:46<+discordbot> Or the whole thing reworded. 20180429 10:36:01<+discordbot> The dialog functions are precisely function additions. 20180429 10:36:43<+discordbot> "The WML preprocessor now supports optional parameters with default values in macro definitions and substitution" 20180429 10:37:04<+discordbot> That should be "substitutions", plural. 20180429 10:37:52<+discordbot> "[for] and [foreach] blocks" -- probably should be "tags". 20180429 10:38:58<+discordbot> "To name just one example, the functionality of the [modify_ai] tag has been extended significantly." -- needs to be a link, the link's contents need to be wrapped in . 20180429 10:39:34<+discordbot> The paragraph immediately following that is a bit too verbose. 20180429 10:40:01<+discordbot> i might drop it 20180429 10:40:02<+discordbot> "They are appropriately called Assassin Squad and Fast Micro AI." -- could go in parentheses next to the repsective items instead. 20180429 10:40:13<+discordbot> Yeah, it's too encyclopedic in nature right now. 20180429 10:41:14<+discordbot> "The Battle for Wesnoth is made available under the GNU General Public License (GNU GPL)" -- outdated text in the Download section. 20180429 10:41:27<+discordbot> It's not fully GNU GPL v2 anymore since the new art is CC BY-SA. 20180429 10:42:26<+discordbot> The Contribute section remains unchanged since 1.12 and I don't see any reason to add to it or change anythingñ 20180429 10:42:43<+discordbot> And that's the end of my review. I'll try to get the screenshots done later. 20180429 10:43:05<+discordbot> the contribute section does not remain unchanged 20180429 10:43:11<+discordbot> i just changed it 20180429 10:43:17<+discordbot> slightly 20180429 10:43:23<+discordbot> Now, or earlier? 20180429 10:43:29<+discordbot> today 20180429 10:43:39<+discordbot> In the repository? 20180429 10:43:44<+discordbot> That's what I'm really asking. 20180429 10:43:55<+discordbot> "Since its inception in July 2003, thousand of people have contributed to all areas of the game" 20180429 10:44:02<+discordbot> P sure this should be 'thousands'. 20180429 10:44:21<+discordbot> Except either way it's the most absurd hyperbole I've ever seen. 20180429 10:44:35<+discordbot> 'hundreds' would work just fine and not overexaggerate our figures. 20180429 10:45:08<+discordbot> The rest seems fine to me. 20180429 10:51:53<+discordbot> I mean, look at about.cfg 20180429 10:52:05<+discordbot> many many names 20180429 10:52:35<+discordbot> Still in the hundreds. 20180429 10:52:47<+discordbot> Unless you honestly believe a whole town contriubted to Wesnoth. 20180429 10:54:28<+discordbot> well if I say hundreds again.. 20180429 10:54:39<+discordbot> it's cancanist 20180429 10:54:40<+discordbot> h 20180429 10:55:28<+discordbot> I have an idea 20180429 11:20:12<+discordbot> hmm, so since NomadGames realeased "Everybody's RPG" with modified versions of Wesnoth's sprites, which they were able to use under the terms of the GPL... then doesn't that mean they are obligated to provide us (or anyone) access to those modified images for free? 20180429 11:20:29<+discordbot> I have no idea 20180429 11:20:46<+discordbot> Nor do I particularly care, unless that's a vector by which they can be taken down 20180429 11:21:10<+discordbot> it may very well be 20180429 11:22:39<+discordbot> or failing that, as a consolation prize some of those images might be useful to UMC devs 20180429 11:22:52<+discordbot> They're ugly as hell, though 20180429 11:24:37<+discordbot> I wish UMC authors would stick to high-quality art 20180429 11:24:55<+discordbot> the modified ogre looks decent: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/231976805987385345/439121815034658816/Screenshot_20180426-195246.png 20180429 11:25:39<+discordbot> but who knows if the parts they added to it are stolen from somewhere else? 20180429 11:26:10<+discordbot> who knows! 20180429 11:26:18<+discordbot> really, it's not that great 20180429 11:58:44-!- gfgtdf [~chatzilla@x4e363c56.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180429 12:04:10-!- Ravana_ [~Ravana@unaffiliated/ravana/x-2327071] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20180429 12:08:37< gfgtdf> i feel like the 'determinisc mode' checkbox in the campaigns menu is too present i wonder whetehr we shodul move it to the modifications list. 20180429 12:09:12<+discordbot> why? 20180429 12:09:53<+discordbot> what's wrong about it where it is 20180429 12:10:34< gfgtdf> i just feel liek it's not important enough to be right on the main campaigns selection page 20180429 12:11:57< gfgtdf> vultraz: you have an optinion of whether to remove the 'registered user only ' checkbox alltogether or whether to let the server decide whether to show it or not ? 20180429 12:12:41<+discordbot> hm. 20180429 12:13:05<+discordbot> latter is best since only the official server has the requirement 20180429 12:14:00-!- Ravana_ [~Ravana@unaffiliated/ravana/x-2327071] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180429 12:14:33< gfgtdf> on current 1.14 official server we woudlobviosuly not show the checkbox. THe question is more whetehr there will ever again be a server that allows both register and unregisterd users. 20180429 12:14:42<+discordbot> yes 20180429 12:14:48<+discordbot> or 20180429 12:14:49<+discordbot> well 20180429 12:14:49<+discordbot> hm 20180429 12:14:58<+discordbot> good point 🤔 20180429 12:18:04-!- gfgtdf [~chatzilla@x4e363c56.dyn.telefonica.de] has left #wesnoth-dev [] 20180429 12:18:17-!- gfgtdf [~chatzilla@x4e363c56.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180429 12:20:09< irker032> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master 06ebcebed5c7 / src/playturn.cpp: improve side drop message fixes #2820 https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/06ebcebed5c7c31f8e6c0b287338ab1e3f7cb6ca 20180429 12:21:10< gfgtdf> if anyone knows a better wording please speak ^ 20180429 12:22:30-!- madmax28_ [~madmax28@2001-4dd3-6da9-0-ed4d-e2ff-88ac-114e.ipv6dyn.netcologne.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180429 12:23:20-!- madmax28_ [~madmax28@2001-4dd3-6da9-0-ed4d-e2ff-88ac-114e.ipv6dyn.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 20180429 12:33:07< irker032> wesnoth/wesnoth:master Celtic Minstrel 07e465e57b Support male_voice and female_voice in [ AppVeyor: All builds passed 20180429 13:17:55-!- gallaecio [~quassel@188.79.96.255] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180429 13:32:24< irker032> wesnoth: Charles Dang website:master 9e9d1832cc79 / start/1.14/template.html: 1.14/Announcement: further text revisions based on feedback https://github.com/wesnoth/website/commit/9e9d1832cc7967b5c1293199ff19920b1054cfe7 20180429 13:38:24< irker032> wesnoth: Charles Dang website:master 961e51986f8f / start/1.14/template.html: 1.14/Announcement: we like puns https://github.com/wesnoth/website/commit/961e51986f8f6ed29425281b5ac8572ca0883508 20180429 13:45:26<+discordbot> @sapient_n3t#8776 they are legally required to provide the "source" for that screenshot freely, which I would argue is the individual composited sprites and background 20180429 13:46:13<+discordbot> Gah I love when mentioning fails 20180429 13:46:19<+discordbot> @sapient_n3t 20180429 13:52:44<+discordbot> Ivanovic: whoops, yeah, looks like I mixed up the cmake variable and the travis variable. 20180429 14:06:06<+discordbot> @pydsigner you mean if they have used one GPL’d image, then all their images become GPL’d? that’s surprising 20180429 14:07:12<+discordbot> @sapient_n3t only if the images are actually combined. 20180429 14:07:42<+discordbot> You could however probably argue that the screenshot falls under fair use 20180429 14:14:00<+discordbot> that also would mean that allowing CC images in mainline was pointless, if it were the case. 20180429 14:14:58<+discordbot> since then you'd take a screenshot with a GPL'd image, then everything including CC-only images would be GPL'd, which we don't have permission to do. 20180429 14:16:27<+discordbot> so either all the new CC images would need to be put back under the GPL, or all GPL images would need to be relicensed to CC 20180429 14:16:28< irker032> wesnoth/wesnoth:1.14 Victor Sergienko 17d80a241a #2971 Scrolling with arrow keys can get AppVeyor: 2/4 builds failed 20180429 14:16:29< irker032> Details vs2015/Release: https://ci.appveyor.com/project/wesnoth/wesnoth-7lnpw/build/Wesnoth-VS2015-1.14-2964 20180429 14:16:30< irker032> Details vs2017/Release: https://ci.appveyor.com/project/wesnoth/wesnoth-605wt/build/Wesnoth-VS2017-1.14-2675 20180429 14:16:49<+discordbot> We do have that permission. GPL is compatible with the CC licenses we allow. 20180429 14:17:13<+discordbot> Any image licensed with a permissive enough CC license can also be distributed under the terms of the GPL. 20180429 14:17:54<+discordbot> are there any like that? I know CC-0 was proposed at one point, but then it was withdrawn. 20180429 14:18:30<+discordbot> Any except NC (Non-Commercial) and ND (No Derivatives), IIRC. 20180429 14:18:40<+discordbot> And we don't allow either of them. 20180429 14:20:04<+discordbot> okay, looks like I was mis-remembering, or the info was outdated: https://www.fsf.org/blogs/licensing/creative-commons-by-sa-4-0-declared-one-way-compatible-with-gnu-gpl-version-3 20180429 14:20:16<+discordbot> still would be a problem for add-ons, though 20180429 14:23:49< irker032> wesnoth: Jyrki Vesterinen wesnoth:master 33fa7d8b766c / src/display.cpp: Fix possible null pointer dereference in display::init_flags() https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/33fa7d8b766cbf3121433c2ba6967cc2e0a3d40c 20180429 14:28:55< matthiaskrgr> \o/ 20180429 14:37:43< celmin|sleep> gfgtdf, @Vultraz: No it is not a good point. Why would there not ever again be a server that allows both registered and unregistered users? Don't try to restrict what users can do unnecessarily. 20180429 14:38:06< celmin|sleep> Also why did you just remove mattsc's second paragraph? I thought shadowm just said it was a bit too verbose, not that it had to go. 20180429 14:39:26< celmin|sleep> It basically mentions four points (Assassin MicroAI, Fast MicroAI, near-levelling CA, and custom_synced_commands). I think most of those basic points should be retained. 20180429 14:39:30<+discordbot> He said it was too encyclopedic 20180429 14:39:33<+discordbot> And I rather agreed 20180429 14:39:58< celmin|sleep> (Though merging them into the previous paragraph could also work. And I could see dropping Fast MicroAI; I just don't find it that interesting.) 20180429 14:43:15< celmin|sleep> How about "A variety of new AI behavior was added as well, such as a new Assassin MicroAI for controlling an assassination squad targeting a specific unit, and a candidate action for attacking units on the verge of levelling up which is active by default. In addition, the new wesnoth.custom_synced_commands table allows for easy creation of unusual AI behavior, such as loading or unloading transports, in a straight-forward manner." 20180429 14:43:23< celmin|sleep> Might still be a bit too long... 20180429 14:43:27-!- celmin|sleep is now known as celticminstrel 20180429 14:54:49< celticminstrel> IIRC the wesnoth-ai textdomain was removed/cleared, right? 20180429 14:55:21< celticminstrel> ISTR mattsc going through the AI test scenarios and removing all the translation marks. 20180429 14:56:00< celticminstrel> Because most people aren't ever going to see that text, right? 20180429 14:56:23< celticminstrel> It makes sense. But I still think it's a nice bonus if it can get translated though... 20180429 14:56:55<+discordbot> @Pentarctagon only an issue if we need to distribute screenshots as marketing material (and of course we do not for any specific UMC) 20180429 14:58:35<+discordbot> our screenshots sometimes do feature UMC 20180429 14:59:16< celticminstrel> The screenshots in an announcement or on Steam shouldn't, though (except maybe in the map editor). 20180429 14:59:51<+discordbot> 🙄 20180429 15:00:19<+discordbot> it doesn't 20180429 15:00:24<+discordbot> our Steam page, that is 20180429 15:00:26< celticminstrel> Yet another emoji that's just a box. 20180429 15:00:28<+discordbot> it does display the addons manager 20180429 15:00:31< celticminstrel> So annoying. 20180429 15:00:34<+discordbot> with TLU displayed 20180429 15:00:37< celticminstrel> Wonder if I can find a better emoji font. 20180429 15:00:47<+discordbot> it's a rolling eyes emoji 20180429 15:00:58< celticminstrel> Ooh, they added 9_9 ? Nice! 20180429 15:01:06<+discordbot> but for the announcement, yes, we are going to use a UMC map. 20180429 15:01:12<+discordbot> in the editor 20180429 15:01:33< celticminstrel> But that map probably won't feature custom terrain graphics right? 20180429 15:02:00<+discordbot> @pydsigner If we're saying that the GPL applies to screenshots because they're derivative works, then that would forbid taking screenshots of anything containing ND art. 20180429 15:03:35<+discordbot> oh for christ's sake... 20180429 15:03:52< celticminstrel> ND art? 20180429 15:03:56< celticminstrel> Oh, right. 20180429 15:04:06< celticminstrel> But we don't actually have any ND art ATM, right? 20180429 15:04:12<+discordbot> no idea 20180429 15:04:12<+discordbot> @Pentarctagon I think you can argue that some screenshots are permissible under fair use. However marketing materials such as steam page screenshots are probably not covered 20180429 15:04:15<+discordbot> add-ons can though 20180429 15:04:23<+discordbot> We allow NC and ND only in UMC 20180429 15:04:27< celticminstrel> Still... I do think it's probably best to avoid anything with custom graphics when taking screenshots of an addon... 20180429 15:04:28<+discordbot> if someone comes up to us bitching that we displayed a screenshot of something I shall show them the door. 20180429 15:04:51< celticminstrel> ... 20180429 15:04:54< celticminstrel> Are you stupid? 20180429 15:05:13<+discordbot> and then they probably come back with a takedown notice 20180429 15:05:38<+discordbot> as inane as copyright is, you can't really ignore it either 20180429 15:08:04<+discordbot> Ok, perhaps I should clarify. If someone comes to us and asks nicely that we remove a screenshot that happens to contain some piece of UMC art they either licensed under ND or just prefer not be shown, that's perfectly reasonable and there's no reason not to comply. 20180429 15:08:50< celticminstrel> TBH I think it's perfectly reasonable even if it doesn't contain any particular user-made art, if it's a shot of their campaign. 20180429 15:09:02< celticminstrel> Or their MP scenario or whatever. 20180429 15:09:03<+discordbot> Yes 20180429 15:09:06<+discordbot> That's what I said 20180429 15:09:28<+discordbot> What I do not want to deal with are trolls who come rolling in in bad faith. 20180429 15:10:02-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has quit [Quit: KABOOM! It seems that I have exploded. Please wait while I reinstall the universe.] 20180429 15:10:24-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180429 15:10:39< celticminstrel> So I installed a new emoji font, not sure if it's working though... 20180429 15:10:41<+discordbot> If you put a screenshot on the forum and a passerby complains about ND inclusion I think you cite fair use and ask if they're a lawyer; if it's the copyright holder you certainly take it down 20180429 15:10:53<+discordbot> ☹ 👌 🤔 🤦 😂 👀 20180429 15:11:04< celticminstrel> That's probably a no. :/ 20180429 15:11:10< celticminstrel> Given that two of those are boxes. 20180429 15:11:13 * celticminstrel sighs. 20180429 15:11:23<+discordbot> Which two? 20180429 15:11:25<+discordbot> Don't you need to update macOS 20180429 15:11:29<+discordbot> to get these 20180429 15:11:31< celticminstrel> The third and fourth. 20180429 15:11:40< celticminstrel> @Vultraz Uh why would I have to update MacOS just to get a new font? 20180429 15:11:44<+discordbot> (this is also partially why I was against allowing ND (and NC) at all) 20180429 15:12:00<+discordbot> I dunno, I just know that when I get a new iOS update I get new eomjis 20180429 15:12:02<+discordbot> 🤔 🤦 20180429 15:12:10<+discordbot> I don't really think about it 20180429 15:12:12< celticminstrel> That's because each version of iOS comes with an updated font. 20180429 15:12:31< celticminstrel> The emojis are Unicode characters, so they're in the font. If you want the new emojis you just need a font that contains them. 20180429 15:12:47<+discordbot> I see 20180429 15:13:00<+discordbot> Then your font obviously isn’t expansive enough 20180429 15:13:03< celticminstrel> I don't know whether this font is failing to work because it actually doesn't have those emojis or because the fallback process isn't seeing it (might need to actually restart the computer? I dunno). 20180429 15:13:22< celticminstrel> I'd hoped just restarting the client would've been enough to fix it... 20180429 15:13:29< celticminstrel> Maybe there's font caches I can clear? 20180429 15:14:57< celticminstrel> Not gonna try it unless I'm confident it would help though. 20180429 15:16:20<+discordbot> Celmin the title means a new sprite is NEEDED 😐 20180429 15:16:31< celticminstrel> Yeah I got that now. 20180429 15:16:49< celticminstrel> That's why I removed that comment. 20180429 15:18:09<+discordbot> what title? 20180429 15:18:29< celticminstrel> Doesn't matter. 20180429 15:18:47< celticminstrel> Vultraz just likes responding to comments in a different venue from where they were made, for some reason. 20180429 15:20:38<+discordbot> Easier 20180429 15:20:48< celticminstrel> Only for you. 20180429 15:20:53< celticminstrel> Harder for literally everyone else. 20180429 15:21:57<+discordbot> I sometimes do it too, when I feel that a realtime medium would work better. 20180429 15:23:55< celticminstrel> If the idea is to launch into a discussion of it, sure. 20180429 15:24:14< celticminstrel> I probably do it sometimes too. 20180429 15:24:21< celticminstrel> Not that I keep track. >_> 20180429 15:35:15-!- gfgtdf [~chatzilla@x4e363c56.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.93 [Firefox 52.7.3/20180322140748]] 20180429 15:52:20< irker032> wesnoth/wesnoth:master Nils Kneuper ce35c7b7bf update Slovak translation AppVeyor: All builds passed 20180429 16:12:30-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180429 16:13:04-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180429 16:31:04< celticminstrel> Looks like you're in luck, Vultraz, there's already a new sprite. 20180429 16:31:24< celticminstrel> And has been for a few months, even. 20180429 16:38:50< celticminstrel> ...I have 20 issues assigned to me? O_O 20180429 16:52:23<+discordbot> Chop chop ;P 20180429 17:08:44< celticminstrel> FTR toplevel events apparently don't work. 20180429 17:08:51< celticminstrel> There is a toplevel event in mainline somewhere. 20180429 17:09:04< celticminstrel> So something should probably be done about that for 1.14.1 if it's actually intended to do something? 20180429 17:11:53< celticminstrel> Hmm, they don't seem to be working in [campaign] either...? 20180429 17:12:09< celticminstrel> Unless it's because I'm loading a start-of-scenario save, which would be a really annoying reason. 20180429 17:14:59< celticminstrel> gfgtdf: Suffice to say that campaign-level or toplevel events are not a workable option. 20180429 17:15:22< celticminstrel> Even if they work in some cases, that's not really enough; to be viable they need to work in all cases where scenario-level events work. 20180429 17:15:47< celticminstrel> For now I'm including the events in every scenario where they might possibly be needed, but... it's annoying that I have to do that. 20180429 17:16:12-!- gfgtdf [~chatzilla@x4e363c56.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180429 17:17:53< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: this si basicialyl the code that shoudl make campaiugn events work https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/blob/1.14/src/saved_game.cpp#L350, afaik mainline utbs uses it. 20180429 17:19:44< celticminstrel> Uh. What the heck? 20180429 17:19:55< gfgtdf> celticminstrel: i am not sure whether teoplevel events are supposed to work 20180429 17:20:17< gfgtdf> toplevel* 20180429 17:20:18< celticminstrel> That code doesn't seem to have anything to do with events. 20180429 17:20:35< gfgtdf> it does it copes the events into the scenario 20180429 17:20:38< gfgtdf> copies* 20180429 17:20:51< celticminstrel> I haven't heard anything about toplevel events, I just noticed that there is one in mainline somewhere (thanks to the schema validator) and figured it was probably there for a reason. 20180429 17:21:07< gfgtdf> can you point me to it ? 20180429 17:21:07< celticminstrel> You say it copies the events into the scenario, but... 20180429 17:21:19< celticminstrel> I can't point you to it easily, no. Sorry. 20180429 17:21:47< celticminstrel> I'd have to check out schema, remove the allowance for toplevel events from the schema WML, and re-validate the config to figure out where it is. 20180429 17:22:08< celticminstrel> You could search through _main.cfg and maybe multiplayer/_main.cfg and a few other low-hanging fruits if you want. 20180429 17:22:40< gfgtdf> it's also possibel the peopel moved it there as a way to 'outcomment' it. 20180429 17:22:48< celticminstrel> Yeah, I did think of that too. 20180429 17:22:55< celticminstrel> But that code doesn't seem to do anything with events? 20180429 17:23:08< gfgtdf> which code ? 20180429 17:23:13< celticminstrel> That you linked to. 20180429 17:23:32< gfgtdf> https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/blob/1.14/src/saved_game.cpp#L305 20180429 17:24:22< celticminstrel> Ah, okay. 20180429 17:24:37< celticminstrel> So we should probably add [ai] to that function too. 20180429 17:25:03< celticminstrel> But that's a separate issue. 20180429 17:25:11< celticminstrel> Okay, so they work, BUT 20180429 17:25:38< celticminstrel> Has it ever been tested whether they work if you change those global events and then load a start-of-scenario save from before the change? 20180429 17:26:01< celticminstrel> Because if it doesn't work in that case it's kinda useless IMO. 20180429 17:26:11< celticminstrel> And it didn't seem to be working for me in that case. 20180429 17:26:28< celticminstrel> In particular, that has_mod_events flag seems highly suspicious to me. 20180429 17:26:34< gfgtdf> loading a start of scenario save will load it from game config? (start-of-scenartio saves do not contain events) 20180429 17:26:43< celticminstrel> Hmm. 20180429 17:26:57< celticminstrel> Well I suppose there could've been other factors getting in the way, but... 20180429 17:27:19< gfgtdf> to be clear the code i linkes should be calles when loading a start-of-scenario save. of course ther can be bugs. 20180429 17:27:30< celticminstrel> I'll try fiddling with it a little, to see if maybe I was doing something else wrong. 20180429 17:31:08< celticminstrel> ... 20180429 17:31:17< celticminstrel> What the heck? It's mysteriously working now. 20180429 17:31:23< celticminstrel> Don't tell me I just forgot to press F5... 20180429 17:32:41< gfgtdf> grepping gives me this one https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/blob/1.14/data/campaigns/Northern_Rebirth/scenarios/07b_Protecting_the_Master.cfg#L585 as the only mainline toplevel (not indented) [event] 20180429 17:32:55< celticminstrel> That's probably not the one. 20180429 17:33:12< gfgtdf> why'd you think that ? 20180429 17:33:55< celticminstrel> Because ISTR it showing up in MP, not a campaign. 20180429 17:34:20< celticminstrel> It's possible that it's from a macro expansion or something, like the [event] in [titlescreen_music] and the like. 20180429 17:35:08< celticminstrel> Okay, now it's not working again... :S 20180429 17:35:31< celticminstrel> Wait no, it is, I just didn't scroll down far enough in the inspector. 20180429 17:38:12< celticminstrel> Still think it would be cleaner to add the events to the unit with an [effect]. 20180429 17:38:17< celticminstrel> But this should work, at least. 20180429 17:41:59-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180429 17:42:30-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180429 17:47:21< celticminstrel> BTW, I'm still getting the deprecation message for helper.set_wml_tag_metatable in 1.14.0. Haven't yet checked if it's something in my code or mainline's code, but suspect the latter. 20180429 17:50:00<+discordbot> Did the 1.14 iOS Version introduce a new directory for user data as well? 20180429 17:50:09<+discordbot> And if so, what's the path? 20180429 17:50:55< celticminstrel> On Windows it's Wesnoth1.14 instead of Wesnoth1.13. 20180429 17:51:02< celticminstrel> I assume the change is similar on iOS. 20180429 17:56:01<+discordbot> I assumed, too, but there is someone complaining that all addons disappeared from their iPad after installing 1.14. I need a little more to be able to help him and unfortunately I don't possess an iPad to check myself. 20180429 17:59:04< celticminstrel> This is expected though, they're supposed to redownload all their addons. :/ 20180429 17:59:41<+discordbot> I know, that's what I'm trying to tell him/her. :P 20180429 18:03:35< irker032> wesnoth: Celtic Minstrel wesnoth:1.14 b68480ade592 / data/tools/GUI.pyw: GUI.pyw: Fix wmlxgettext run failing if the output file already exists https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/b68480ade592aa47027c5f79a099aa101d09e38d 20180429 18:04:17< irker032> wesnoth: Celtic Minstrel wesnoth:master 579589264930 / data/tools/GUI.pyw: GUI.pyw: Fix wmlxgettext run failing if the output file already exists https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/579589264930d18d5ff69a250a31d95bd0e72e42 20180429 18:04:19< irker032> wesnoth/wesnoth:1.14 gfgtdf c01b2b2847 editor: don't write default values when AppVeyor: All builds passed 20180429 18:04:51< celticminstrel> BTW loonycyborg, @hrubymar10, we should probably include wmlxgettext in the releases. 20180429 18:05:12< celticminstrel> Also pinging @Vultraz. 20180429 18:05:45< celticminstrel> That means utils/wmlxgettext and utils/pywmlx/* 20180429 18:13:31<+discordbot> if a ref unit is passed to terrain_filter it creates the auto-store "teleport_unit"... that seems like a string that should be passed with the ref. 20180429 18:15:09< celticminstrel> Huh? What do you mean? 20180429 18:15:30<+discordbot> I don’t control what goes in the packages 20180429 18:15:32<+discordbot> Sorry 20180429 18:15:44< celticminstrel> But you can make recommendations. 20180429 18:15:57< celticminstrel> But whatever, I pinged the two packagers anyway so if you want to remain silent, so be it. 20180429 18:17:06<+discordbot> Why it should be included? What does it for? 20180429 18:18:11<+discordbot> I seem to remember expressing support for the idea 20180429 18:18:13<+discordbot> At some point 20180429 18:18:45< celticminstrel> The reason I say that it should be included is that GUI.pyw, which is included, references it. 20180429 18:18:56< celticminstrel> It generates a pot file from WML/Lua files, for translating addons. 20180429 18:20:18<+discordbot> and in what location? or is it binary? 20180429 18:20:56< celticminstrel> Well, I put it in the same place as the data folder, and that worked on Windows. 20180429 18:21:05< celticminstrel> I'd guess it'd also work on the Mac. 20180429 18:21:41<+discordbot> @Vultraz Rhonda enabled https for changelog.wesnoth.org. As for the other variants of the changelog.w.o subdomain, do not use them -- use changelog.wesnoth.org/1.14.0 (tag), changelog.wesnoth.org/1.14 (branch) instead. 20180429 18:22:10<+discordbot> Pretty sure I've already been doing that anyway 20180429 18:22:50<+discordbot> I mean it's strange that the name of the auto-stored unit for location filtering is always teleport_unit, regardless of whether or not the filter is teleport-related: https://wiki.wesnoth.org/LuaWML/Tiles#wesnoth.get_locations 20180429 18:23:25<+discordbot> I am about to update the doc in wiki for auto-stored variables, since it got missed there 20180429 18:23:30< celticminstrel> It's true that it's strange, but I just went with the path of least effort. >_> 20180429 18:23:42< celticminstrel> It's teleport-related in all core cases, I think. 20180429 18:24:06< celticminstrel> I wouldn't really mind changing the variable name, but I'd prefer it to be consistent, so it should be changed for teleport abilities too. 20180429 18:24:28< celticminstrel> (The teleport ability could still duplicate the unit as $teleport_unit for compatibility.) 20180429 18:24:34< celticminstrel> Mind you it's a little late for that now, so whatever. 20180429 18:26:10< irker032> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master 7751b790ebd8 / src/ (actions/undo.cpp actions/undo_action.hpp synced_commands.cpp): fix [on_undo] in menu items and custom_command https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/7751b790ebd84ccdaa291246784ed648d5faa88f 20180429 18:26:48<+discordbot> gfgtdf: don't forget to backport 20180429 18:27:09<+discordbot> the documentation for the tunnel action tag does not mention telport_unit, but the documentation for tunnel in teleport ability does mention it. oversight? 20180429 18:27:20< gfgtdf> vultraz: ye, 20180429 18:27:43< gfgtdf> vulatrz: did you see my comment on 5149e65449b12374bf3c367f1cd3d01469c39416 i think we should at least partly revert it on 1.14. 20180429 18:27:51<+discordbot> why? 20180429 18:28:02<+discordbot> you said you didn't have a concrete case 20180429 18:29:26< gfgtdf> hmm for exampel if a scenario defines no_leader=yes in [multiplayer] eithout leader_lock=yes, then oif the host uses 1.14 and the other players use 1.14.1 then that no_leader will onyl have an effect on the hosts side.have 20180429 18:29:56< gfgtdf> actually it might still works sicne the host will probalby send the other players his gamestate anyway, hmm now sure 20180429 18:30:56< celticminstrel> Well, I think I'm almost ready to put my campaign up on the add-on server... 20180429 18:31:23< celticminstrel> I just need to integrate mattsc's AI tweaks for that one scenario and possibly make a few more tweaks to it, then do a full playthrough... 20180429 18:31:30< celticminstrel> (Without cheating this time) 20180429 18:31:58< gfgtdf> hmm ok well mayabe it won't casue oos, still it'sa slight behviour change in the api for a rather small gain. 20180429 18:32:45< gfgtdf> hmm actualyl we can probably leave it in asis if you want. 20180429 18:35:37<+discordbot> hehe. Steam says Dota 2 is one of Wesnoth's "More like this" games 😏 20180429 18:36:01<+discordbot> Because it knows you play Dota 2. 20180429 18:36:27<+discordbot> Except I'm not logged in on the website and if I were it would be to the wesnoth inc account 20180429 18:36:43<+discordbot> Wasn't viewing it from the client. 20180429 18:37:00<+discordbot> Is Wesnoth clearly tagged as a TBS? 20180429 18:37:07<+discordbot> Well, when it comes to game genres, RTS isn't that far from TBS... 20180429 18:37:07<+discordbot> Shows me CS:GO, Dota 2 and AdVenture Capitalist 20180429 18:37:15<+discordbot> I play none of those 20180429 18:37:18<+discordbot> xD 20180429 18:37:19<+discordbot> Maybe it's the fact that they are both free. 20180429 18:40:06<+discordbot> I'll add turn-based to the keywords list. 20180429 18:40:36< celticminstrel> I'm not logged in and it's showing Path of Exile and Frostpunk, as well as Dota 2. 20180429 18:41:05< celticminstrel> Plus a bunch of others that sound completely different, like CounterStrike, WarFrame, BattleTech... 20180429 18:41:26< celticminstrel> TBH, none of the "More Like This" actually seem relevant? 20180429 18:41:31<+discordbot> Looks like there's also Hex Grid as a tag 20180429 18:42:31<+discordbot> perhaps should also add turn-based as an actual tag 20180429 18:42:35< celticminstrel> Heh, logged in and now it says "This game doesn't look like other things you've played in the past"... which is especially interesting because I've played Civ4, so I think there must be something wrong. 20180429 18:43:12<+discordbot> Pixel Graphics as well 20180429 18:43:17<+discordbot> ooo... 20180429 18:43:53<+discordbot> I'm not sure how tags work though 20180429 18:44:08<+discordbot> are they something everyone sees, regardless of who adds them? 20180429 18:44:36<+discordbot> Probably at least the "popular user-defined tags for this product" are seen by everyone 20180429 18:45:02<+discordbot> well, I've added the Pixel Graphics, Hex Grid, and Turn-Based Strategy tags 20180429 18:45:27<+discordbot> and "turn-based" to the search keywords 20180429 18:46:13< celticminstrel> Wait, I thought it didn't have steam cloud support? 20180429 18:46:28<+discordbot> Wheee 20180429 18:46:37<+discordbot> We should have an FAQ for developers at this point, honestly. 20180429 18:46:56< celticminstrel> BTW it doesn't seem like Vultraz adding tags actually changed anything. 20180429 18:47:23<+discordbot> yes, we have the basic "you can't use the steamworks SDK"cloud support 20180429 18:47:36< celticminstrel> So what exactly does that mean? 20180429 18:47:41<+discordbot> This basically proves my whole point with regards to Discord and IRC being unsuitable for project organization. 20180429 18:47:54<+discordbot> the saves dir is synced on the same platform 20180429 18:48:03< celticminstrel> Okay. 20180429 18:48:21< celticminstrel> Can it be changed to sync cross-platform? 20180429 18:48:27<+discordbot> yes 20180429 18:48:32<+discordbot> but someone needs to add the relevant paths 20180429 18:48:40<+discordbot> You already have all the relevant paths. 20180429 18:48:54<+discordbot> ok, the relevant rules 20180429 18:49:03<+discordbot> What rules are needed? 20180429 18:49:09<+discordbot> Just sync saves with saves with saves. 20180429 18:49:15<+discordbot> I think need 6 rules 20180429 18:49:15< celticminstrel> So about the tags, is it possible to add pixel graphics, hex grid, and turn-based in a way that everyone sees them? 20180429 18:49:26<+discordbot> I don't think so 20180429 18:49:31<+discordbot> unless a lot of people add them 20180429 18:49:35< celticminstrel> That seems utterly ridiculous. 20180429 18:49:42<+discordbot> ¯_(ツ)_/¯ 20180429 18:49:47< celticminstrel> There's really no way for the developer to tag their own work? 20180429 18:49:56< celticminstrel> Shadowm do you know anything 20180429 18:50:20<+discordbot> I think allowing developer-provided tags would be problematic. 20180429 18:50:32<+discordbot> There is a "good soundtrack" tag, for example. 20180429 18:50:37<+discordbot> 😂 20180429 18:51:22-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-54-227-12-119.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180429 18:51:23< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#17866 (master - 7751b79 : gfgtdf): The build was broken. 20180429 18:51:23< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/372753059 20180429 18:51:23-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-54-227-12-119.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has left #wesnoth-dev [] 20180429 18:51:25< celticminstrel> Then maybe we should just ask everyone to add those three tags and hopefully they'll eventually stick. 20180429 18:51:37<+discordbot> I see the tags vultraz added now 20180429 18:51:46<+discordbot> looks like it just to a few minutes 20180429 18:51:52< celticminstrel> Hmm, okay? 20180429 18:51:57< celticminstrel> Well, whatever. 20180429 18:52:07<+discordbot> Seems like everything with Steam takes a few minutes 20180429 18:52:33< celticminstrel> Still thinks it's not relevant to me, which is bizarre, but that might just be because their algorithm is bizarre. I guess we shouldn't put too much stock in the relevancy metric. 20180429 18:53:13<+discordbot> I honestly think the add-ons manager screenshot is out of place. 20180429 18:53:37<+discordbot> It makes sense for our own announcements but not for people on Steam who've never played the game before. 20180429 18:56:36<+discordbot> I think it makes sense to show off a multitude of addons 20180429 18:57:08<+discordbot> On the server 20180429 18:57:41<+discordbot> I also think that it's good to highlight how many add-ons we have. 20180429 19:01:49<+discordbot> They are not part of the game, that's my point. 20180429 19:02:18<+discordbot> I don't think I've seen any other games showcasing e.g. Workshop content in their main screenshots on Steam. 20180429 19:03:25<+discordbot> I wonder if there's a single game on Steam that has as many add-ons as we do. 20180429 19:04:16<+discordbot> skyrim? 20180429 19:06:38<+discordbot> also probably depends on if you mean 1.12 and 1.14 currently 20180429 19:06:49<+discordbot> *or 1.14 20180429 19:06:57-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20180429 19:07:09-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180429 19:07:12<+discordbot> I meant 1.12. 20180429 19:08:56< irker032> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master 2e5d7139b974 / src/actions/undo.cpp: fixup https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/2e5d7139b974dd4f7ec30993beee42e253ad2587 20180429 19:17:02-!- gfgtdf [~chatzilla@x4e363c56.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20180429 19:18:07<+discordbot> THESE COMMIT MESSAGES 20180429 19:18:21<+discordbot> but also how many other games are open source and community driven like Wesnoth? 20180429 19:28:21-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-54-147-171-216.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180429 19:28:22< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#17867 (master - 2e5d713 : gfgtdf): The build was fixed. 20180429 19:28:22< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/372764152 20180429 19:28:22-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-54-147-171-216.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has left #wesnoth-dev [] 20180429 19:52:53<+discordbot> @Pentarctagon yeah, Skyrim indeed had thousands of mods 20180429 19:53:08<+discordbot> But those are third party mods 20180429 19:55:14< celticminstrel> Uh, Vultraz. Wesnoth's mods are also 3rd party mods, it almost sounds like you're implying that's not the case. 20180429 19:55:56<+discordbot> Thousands? Wow, that's a lot. 😮 20180429 19:56:19< Ravana_> trait effect has weapon special with filter then 20180429 19:56:31<+discordbot> Honestly Wesnoth isn't special in this regard. 20180429 19:57:03<+discordbot> The only difference is that we are more willing to add content to mainline... on paper. In practice that's not the case. 20180429 19:58:07<+discordbot> Eh 20180429 19:58:11<+discordbot> celmin has a point 20180429 19:58:12<+discordbot> 🤔 20180429 19:58:57<+discordbot> you may not want to feature workshop content in the main screenshot 20180429 19:59:00<+discordbot> s 20180429 19:59:11<+discordbot> but it wouldn't hurt to have a little thing where we sometimes feature an add-on 20180429 19:59:18<+discordbot> add-on of the month or something 20180429 19:59:28<+discordbot> @jyrkive the Skyrim Special Edition Nexus has 10,758 entries alone. 20180429 20:01:30<+discordbot> Yumi that kind of thing can be done on our forums, but on Steam? Not really. 20180429 20:02:16< celticminstrel> Indeed. 20180429 20:02:21<+discordbot> sure 20180429 20:02:49<+discordbot> Well, Steam has its own forums too. 20180429 20:03:20<+discordbot> For the game I'm playing right now, the developers stickied a topic about a graphics mod (which I then proceeded to use). 20180429 20:03:44<+discordbot> We are not going to be using the Steam forums. 20180429 20:04:21<+discordbot> We don't have the resources to take care of more than two platforms (main forums, MP server) at the same time right now, let alone three. 20180429 20:32:12< irker032> wesnoth/wesnoth:master Jyrki Vesterinen 33fa7d8b76 Fix possible null pointer dereference in AppVeyor: All builds passed 20180429 20:36:08<+discordbot> Few, after a lot of time, I've finished all my first versions of the Quenoth Elves descriptions. Be sure to come and see them, I really need feedback to correct the gramatical errors,... I could have done. There is still place for modifications so feel free to state your own ideas too 20180429 20:37:27< celticminstrel> I don't see them posted to the forums? Nor in a pull request? 20180429 20:37:35<+discordbot> https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=47996 20180429 20:37:58< celticminstrel> Uhhh. There's no new post in that thread. 20180429 20:38:15<+discordbot> probably this, I would imagine: https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=47996#p626013 20180429 20:38:29< celticminstrel> The point is that when you're adding to a thread you need to make a new post. 20180429 20:38:40< celticminstrel> Otherwise how do you expect people to see it? 20180429 20:39:27< celticminstrel> IMO it's fine to double-post if your previous post was days earlier, though I think the Wesnoth forums allows deleting posts so you could also delete and repost if you prefer that. 20180429 20:40:44<+discordbot> Hmm, didn't think about that, for now I have been working always on the same post, modifying it all the time, I'll reupload it. 20180429 20:42:01< celticminstrel> Eh... 20180429 20:42:35< celticminstrel> The forum is really not a good place to have posts that you just keep coming back to and editing while waiting for feedback... 20180429 20:45:58<+discordbot> To be honest I wasn't expecting feedback until announcing the end of the first draws, 20180429 20:46:09< celticminstrel> That's fair. 20180429 20:46:28< celticminstrel> It definitely makes sense to finish the first draft before asking for feedback. 20180429 20:46:29<+discordbot> Btw, is there a way to completely remove a topic since I'm reuploading it? 20180429 20:47:26< celticminstrel> Uh. I don't think you can delete topics unless you're a moderator (maybe if no-one replied yet). What I'd do is just make a new post? 20180429 20:47:34< celticminstrel> Or... 20180429 20:47:37<+discordbot> reupload? 20180429 20:47:50<+discordbot> Yay I made a new one 20180429 20:47:58< celticminstrel> If you already have the first draft in the previous post then make a post linking back to it saying that the first draft is completed. I guess. 20180429 20:48:13< celticminstrel> ... 20180429 20:48:21< celticminstrel> ............ 20180429 20:49:23< celticminstrel> Okay I fixed it for you. >_> 20180429 20:50:12<+discordbot> Thanks for that, I didn't really know how to do that tbh, I'm pretty clueless when it comes to computers 20180429 20:50:23<+discordbot> probably the best would be to edit your first post, then add new posts saying which unit's you've added 20180429 20:50:31< celticminstrel> I disagree. 20180429 20:50:36< celticminstrel> Though. 20180429 20:50:46< celticminstrel> If by first post you mean opening post it could be acceptable. 20180429 20:51:01<+discordbot> yes 20180429 20:51:08< celticminstrel> But whatever, this is what we've got now so whatever. 20180429 20:51:21<+discordbot> @MarkoLeSerbe for formal style writing, try to avoid using contractions 20180429 20:51:27<+discordbot> e.g. it's, doesn't, can't, etc. 20180429 20:51:49<+discordbot> the exception is possessives, e.g. elves', humans' 20180429 20:51:55< celticminstrel> ... 20180429 20:52:02< celticminstrel> Yumi, possessives are not contractions. 20180429 20:52:19<+discordbot> yah, I misspoke 20180429 20:52:22< celticminstrel> So they're not an exception to that rule. 20180429 20:52:34<+discordbot> I was wrong, what I meant was possessives are okay 20180429 20:52:41< celticminstrel> Yeah that's fair. 20180429 20:52:41<+discordbot> but contractions are better left out 20180429 20:53:06< celticminstrel> I think there are some things with possessives that you might want to avoid in formal writing though. 20180429 20:53:20< celticminstrel> The possessive 's is a clitic that can be applied not just to a single word but also to a phrase. 20180429 20:53:34<+discordbot> one step at a time 20180429 20:53:47<+discordbot> yes, indeed 20180429 20:53:47< celticminstrel> But that might not be a good idea in formal writing? I'm not sure I've heard this said before though. I could just be making it up. 20180429 20:53:50<+discordbot> I'll correct that then (told ya I would have problems with grammar) 20180429 20:53:58<+discordbot> it's not grammatically wrong 20180429 20:54:06<+discordbot> but 'tis frowned upon in formal writing 20180429 20:54:09< celticminstrel> Yeah it's not a problem with grammar, just a problem with style. 20180429 20:54:27< celticminstrel> I'm going to post my comments in the thread FTR. 20180429 20:54:56<+discordbot> ... Sure, my bad... huh I really have my limits when it comes to English 20180429 20:55:20< celticminstrel> You're a French speaker or similar? 20180429 20:55:43<+discordbot> Yup, French (and Serbian but that's less important) 20180429 20:55:56< celticminstrel> Well, your English seems pretty good to me though. 20180429 20:56:32<+discordbot> I've been working on it since 2 years so I guess I'll take the compliment 20180429 20:56:49<+discordbot> for 2 years god dammit 20180429 20:56:55< celticminstrel> Heh. 20180429 20:57:16< celticminstrel> I almost didn't notice that slip-up. >_> Maybe I'm used to seeing people make that mistake... 20180429 20:58:01<+discordbot> ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) English may be an universal language, but few are those who can actually use it properly 20180429 20:58:31<+discordbot> the trickiest part is usually connotation 20180429 20:59:53<+discordbot> so if you go to a thesaurus to look up some synonyms without knowing what the words really mean (beyond the dictionary definition) 20180429 21:00:04<+discordbot> you'll run into trouble 20180429 21:00:32< irker032> wesnoth/wesnoth:master gfgtdf 2e5d7139b9 fixup AppVeyor: vs2015/Release Failed 20180429 21:00:33< irker032> Details: https://ci.appveyor.com/project/wesnoth/wesnoth-7lnpw/build/Wesnoth-VS2015-master-2973 20180429 21:06:34<+discordbot> Most of the contractions have been removed, I'll verify that again tomorrow but for now, I'm going to sleep, good night, everybody 20180429 21:25:57-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20180429 21:26:39-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180429 21:28:29-!- mkdroid [~null@unaffiliated/matthiaskrgr] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180429 21:30:01< irker032> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:1.14 a56459d98302 / src/ (display.cpp units/drawer.cpp): dgbinfo asdfasdf https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/a56459d983027fad3691714cbd4b156b174c6ef8 20180429 21:30:11< celticminstrel> ... 20180429 21:30:18< celticminstrel> gfgtdf 20180429 21:30:20< celticminstrel> Why 20180429 21:30:22< celticminstrel> Please 20180429 21:30:26< celticminstrel> Don't ever do that again. 20180429 21:30:26-!- gfgtdf [~chatzilla@x4e363c56.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180429 21:30:37< gfgtdf> sry that wasw meant to got my my fork, maybe soeme can remove it quickly? 20180429 21:30:44< gfgtdf> go to* 20180429 21:30:58< celticminstrel> Needs @Vultraz or someone else with admin access to the repo if you want to delete a commit. 20180429 21:31:54<+discordbot> i can force-push, yes 20180429 21:32:19<+discordbot> or would gfgtdf just prefer to add a proper commit message? 20180429 21:32:27<+discordbot> ie, is ithe commit done 20180429 21:32:29<+discordbot> or is it WIP 20180429 21:32:36< celticminstrel> Looks WIP to me though. 20180429 21:32:54< gfgtdf> hmm no this was really just a local change for debugging thingks that was not meant to got to wensoth/wesnoth ever 20180429 21:35:08< gfgtdf> i actualyl thought it woudl bloick me if i did "git push -f" to wesnoth/wensoth that's why i didn't check what remote was set first, but it seems liek it woudl oynl block me if i the -f is actuall needed. 20180429 21:35:25<+discordbot> commit gone 20180429 21:35:32< celticminstrel> Yeah, that's correct. 20180429 21:36:02<+discordbot> celmin: thanks for pinging me immediately 20180429 21:36:13< gfgtdf> thx 20180429 21:36:38< celticminstrel> While you're here Vultraz have you seen doofus's new shaman and druid sprites. 20180429 21:38:42<+discordbot> what? 20180429 21:38:43<+discordbot> where 20180429 21:39:22< celticminstrel> In the pull request. 20180429 21:40:22<+discordbot> ahh very nice 20180429 21:40:48<+discordbot> now it's not just a recolor of the new mainline druid 20180429 21:41:53<+discordbot> and the shaman has a decent sprite now 20180429 21:44:20< zookeeper> it's nice, aside from looking a bit... ahem, deformed 20180429 21:45:34-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180429 21:47:27< celticminstrel> Oh yeah, did Vultraz put back some details on the new AI behaviours? 20180429 22:00:17< mattsc> Hey All. FYI, I make no claims of being a good writer. In fact, I know that I am not. So feel free to change, re-arrange, cut whatever anything I wrote. However … 20180429 22:00:56< mattsc> Of the two paragraphs I drafted, I think (in my personal, subjective and biased opinion) that the one about new AI behavior was actually more important than the one on AI functionality. 20180429 22:01:06< celticminstrel> However, I think at least the assassin AI should definitely be mentioned. 20180429 22:01:30< mattsc> celticminstrel: I think _something_ about new AI behavior should be mentioned. 20180429 22:01:49< mattsc> Even if it’s just: oh, hey, and there’s new AI behavior too. Check out the wiki. 20180429 22:02:14 * celticminstrel pokes @Vultraz 20180429 22:02:57< mattsc> Anyway, I am not going to argue this. I’m just stating my personal opinion for the record. I’m ok with it either wat. 20180429 22:03:01< mattsc> *way 20180429 22:06:45< celticminstrel> Are we going to add Kasdel's trailer too? 20180429 22:07:58< celticminstrel> Definitely disappointing that dunefolk only have one portrait though, maybe we should focus on that next. >_> 20180429 22:11:00<+discordbot> unit descriptions would probably be more practical. portraits would depend on finding someone to make them, which would be rather difficult unless the Board wants to commission Lord Bob again. 20180429 22:14:47< celticminstrel> Also @Vultraz, did you contact beetlenaut yet. 20180429 22:18:29< zookeeper> i'd deem it unwise to commission a huge pile of portraits for units that don't even have any mainline speaking roles. when a mainline dunefolk campaign actually becomes a thing, it'd be different... but even then character portraits would of course be more important to have first. 20180429 22:18:43<+discordbot> @Vultraz "I don't think anyone got new portraits besides the Quenoth Elves in 1.13..." The Yeti did, Scorpions Rat and Spider too 20180429 22:19:11< celticminstrel> IOW a pile of monsters got portraits. 20180429 22:19:34< celticminstrel> I recall a new sea serpent too, but maybe that was in 1.12. 20180429 22:22:57-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20180429 22:24:53<+discordbot> Checked it, 1.12 20180429 22:25:41<+discordbot> @shadowm, just noticed that the Giant rat portrait is displayed different than other portraits in the unit database, but not an issue 20180429 22:26:14<+discordbot> Did you mean to tag me? Because that didn't work. 20180429 22:26:35<+discordbot> I meant, yes.. 20180429 22:26:53<+discordbot> I see why 20180429 22:28:36-!- mkdroid [~null@unaffiliated/matthiaskrgr] has quit [Quit: I'll be back!] 20180429 22:29:20< mattsc> celticminstrel: BTW, I don’t think I removed the translation marks from the AI test scenarios. The topic has come up several times and adding them in the first place was a mistake on my part (back in my greenhorn days), but then we always concluded that throwing away full translations in at least 7(?) different languages would be an aweful waste. 20180429 22:29:30< mattsc> That’s the last on the topic I remember, at least. 20180429 22:29:52< celticminstrel> Ahh. 20180429 22:30:22< celticminstrel> Well personally I think it's a good idea to have translations of the AI demo scenarios, though definitely not a priority. 20180429 22:31:27<+discordbot> zookeeper, doofus mentioned in his PR that he's going to work on animations if noone has objections to the sprites. maybe the right time to mention if sth. disturbes you. 20180429 22:31:34< celticminstrel> Any other test scenarios don't need translations though IMO. 20180429 22:32:02< celticminstrel> Unfortunately zookeeper has left... 20180429 22:36:01< irker032> wesnoth/wesnoth:1.14 Victor Sergienko b2be857dc1 #2971 Scrolling with arrow keys can get AppVeyor: vs2017/Release Failed 20180429 22:36:02< irker032> Details: https://ci.appveyor.com/project/wesnoth/wesnoth-605wt/build/Wesnoth-VS2017-1.14-2685 20180429 22:49:35-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180429 22:52:28-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-54-91-150-247.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180429 22:52:29< travis-ci> gfgtdf/wesnoth#1077 (1.14 - b68480a : Celtic Minstrel): The build passed. 20180429 22:52:29< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/gfgtdf/wesnoth/builds/372805038 20180429 22:52:29-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-54-91-150-247.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has left #wesnoth-dev [] 20180429 22:53:04-!- gallaecio [~quassel@188.79.96.255] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180429 22:53:54<+discordbot> @Pentarctagon we can and will commission LordBob again 20180429 22:54:05<+discordbot> He's willing to do more, and we have the money to pay for it 20180429 22:54:14< celticminstrel> There are MP scenarios with talking roles, right? 20180429 22:54:14<+discordbot> Northern Rebirth will probably be next though 20180429 22:54:28<+discordbot> its portraits are absolute garbage now compared to everything else 20180429 22:54:41< celticminstrel> Assuming that's the case, it's entirely possible to see a talking dunefolk even if there are no dunefolk campaigns. 20180429 22:56:03<+discordbot> LB Also mentioned Arab-inspired characters like the Dunefolk is something he'd be keen to work on 20180429 22:56:24<+discordbot> now 20180429 22:56:29<+discordbot> no I di dnotcontacrbetlenat 20180429 22:56:40<+discordbot> what 20180429 22:56:44<+discordbot> and no I did not re-add @mattsc 's paragraph 20180429 22:57:08<+discordbot> and ys, @sevu , there were some such portraits added in 1.12, but they were also added to 1.12 20180429 22:57:14<+discordbot> as far as I know 20180429 22:57:35<+discordbot> (edited the beetlenaut message) 20180429 22:57:59<+discordbot> also there's the L2 Roc that needs a sprite before it can be added 20180429 22:59:04< celticminstrel> @Vultraz I think something should be done about the removed mattsc's paragraph, even if it's just merging the info into the other paragraph. 20180429 23:04:03< celticminstrel> There I messaged him for you. 20180429 23:04:12< celticminstrel> That wasn't so hard, I don't see why you couldn't've done it yourself. 20180429 23:05:01< celticminstrel> In fact, if you'd done it earlier I bet he would've responded right away. 20180429 23:05:10< celticminstrel> Doesn't seem to be online right now though. 20180429 23:05:42< mattsc> ??? 20180429 23:05:55< celticminstrel> FTR, "him" refers to beetlenaut here. 20180429 23:06:09< celticminstrel> Since I seem to have confused mattsc 20180429 23:06:13< mattsc> Oh. Ok. 20180429 23:06:25< mattsc> Yes, you did, but that’s easy to do. ;) 20180429 23:08:57<+discordbot> I don't know what to do about mattsc's text 20180429 23:09:00<+discordbot> both is too long 20180429 23:09:03<+discordbot> and you say one is too short 20180429 23:11:22-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-54-147-171-216.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180429 23:11:23< travis-ci> gfgtdf/wesnoth#1079 (1.14 - e2b8923 : gfgtdf): The build passed. 20180429 23:11:23< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/gfgtdf/wesnoth/builds/372805704 20180429 23:11:23-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-54-147-171-216.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has left #wesnoth-dev [] 20180429 23:12:26< mattsc> @Vultraz Sorry for causing so much trouble. ;) 20180429 23:12:49<+discordbot> not your fault, really... 20180429 23:12:51< mattsc> I don’t think one paragraph is too short, but in my opinion, you cut the wrong one. 20180429 23:12:57<+discordbot> I dunno why celmin is so insistent 20180429 23:12:58< mattsc> (I know, just kidding) 20180429 23:13:17<+discordbot> mehh 20180429 23:13:19< mattsc> As I said, I make no claims of being good at writing anything like this. 20180429 23:13:39< mattsc> I do think that there should be a mention of there being new AI behavior too. 20180429 23:14:10< mattsc> I can just be a single sentence, generic statement sort of thing, AFAIAC 20180429 23:14:32<+discordbot> I suppose so 20180429 23:14:42< mattsc> But, if you don’t want to, or simply don’t, that’s fine by me also. 20180429 23:15:16<+discordbot> sets a good precedent for 2030 and Wesnoth 1.32 with machine learning AI 😛 20180429 23:15:37< mattsc> Heh. 20180429 23:17:03< mattsc> We’ll have to pick up the pace quite a bit if we want to get out 9 stable version in the next 12 years! 20180429 23:17:12< mattsc> *versions 20180429 23:17:39<+discordbot> man, 2030 is only 12 years away... 20180429 23:17:46< celticminstrel> @Vultraz - I think just adding one more sentence would be enough. 20180429 23:17:48< mattsc> It’s scary, isn’t it? 20180429 23:17:57< mattsc> Sounds good to me. 20180429 23:18:00<+discordbot> then give me the text 20180429 23:18:02<+discordbot> seriously 20180429 23:18:13< celticminstrel> Yeah I was getting to it, be patient... 20180429 23:18:32< mattsc> 20180429 22:01:49< mattsc> Even if it’s just: oh, hey, and there’s new AI behavior too. Check out the wiki. 20180429 23:18:46< mattsc> ;) 20180429 23:19:07< celticminstrel> Maybe something like... "In addition, a number of new AI behaviors were added, including an assassin squad micro AI and a patch for a flaw whereby AI units would always refuse to attack unit on the verge of advancing." 20180429 23:19:22< celticminstrel> Maybe "micro AI for content developers" or some such? 20180429 23:23:49< celticminstrel> You could add something like "Check the wiki for details" if you want, too. Or some actual links to the wiki in that paragraph. 20180429 23:24:20< celticminstrel> The main pages of relevance I think would be "Wesnoth AI Framework" (for AI configuration), maybe "AIWML" for the aspect syntax, and "Micro AIs" for the assassin squad. 20180429 23:24:31<+discordbot> the AI code really does use a lot of shared_ptrs 20180429 23:24:41< celticminstrel> Uh. Okay? 20180429 23:24:52<+discordbot> just an observation 20180429 23:25:33<+discordbot> there's also a ton of 1.9 TODOs that were never done 20180429 23:25:36<+discordbot> sadness 20180429 23:25:42< celticminstrel> Heh. 20180429 23:26:02<+discordbot> 28 instances "@todo 1.9" 20180429 23:27:10<+discordbot> well, easy fix 's/todo 1.9/todo 1.31/' 20180429 23:27:13<+discordbot> xD 20180429 23:27:36<+discordbot> as for the portraits, they are not in 1.12 20180429 23:27:41<+discordbot> problem is, no one knows this code well enough anymore to implement them 20180429 23:28:49<+discordbot> oh are you kidding me 20180429 23:28:54<+discordbot> "@todo 1.7" 20180429 23:29:03<+discordbot> 😐 20180429 23:31:00<+discordbot> ///@todo 1.7.11 important! Add an ai action (and fai function) to set a goto on a unit ///@todo 1.7.11 important! Add an ai action (and fai function) to send a chat message to a player 20180429 23:31:04<+discordbot> why the hell would the AI need to chat 20180429 23:31:17< celticminstrel> XD 20180429 23:31:31< mattsc> Fred chats. And compains and curses … 20180429 23:31:36< mattsc> *complains 20180429 23:31:53< celticminstrel> Technically there is a FAI function that sends a chat message, though it's debug-only... 20180429 23:32:06< celticminstrel> But really, why shouldn't the AI be allowed to chat? 20180429 23:32:12<+discordbot> the 1.9 messages make reference to some "extended event system" 20180429 23:32:44< celticminstrel> A FAI function for setting a goto actually should be pretty trivial to do, I think. 20180429 23:33:34<+discordbot> then maybe you or someone else should deal with these decade-old TODOs 20180429 23:33:36<+discordbot> at some point 20180429 23:33:41< celticminstrel> Maybe. 20180429 23:35:30< mattsc> Oh, and Fred also mocks the player, occasionally. 20180429 23:35:37< celticminstrel> Nice! 20180429 23:35:46< mattsc> celticminstrel: while the FAI goto setter might be simple to do, the question is whether we actually need it. 20180429 23:36:09< mattsc> Just because we can do it, doesn’t mean we need or want to. 20180429 23:36:17< celticminstrel> Might be nice to have an AI in core that mocks/insults. 20180429 23:36:24< mattsc> I bet that about half of those todo’s fall into that category. 20180429 23:36:34< celticminstrel> I guess it would be problematic as a candidate action though. 20180429 23:36:36<+discordbot> can we remove FAI? 20180429 23:36:39< celticminstrel> So maybe as a stage? 20180429 23:36:55< celticminstrel> @Vultraz We probably could, but... I wouldn't recommend it anytime soon. 20180429 23:36:59<+discordbot> and use Lua everywhere? 20180429 23:37:02< celticminstrel> IIRC LoW is still using FAI. 20180429 23:37:27< mattsc> celticminstrel: Well, I was always hoping to get Fred ,or some derivative thereof, to the point where it could be added as a secondary ExpAI, but I seem to be incapable of getting there. 20180429 23:37:50< celticminstrel> I think it'd need to be able to play any faction before it could be added as a secondary ExpAI. 20180429 23:37:59< celticminstrel> Including ones you've never heard of. 20180429 23:38:03< mattsc> Oh, that part is easy ... 20180429 23:38:10< celticminstrel> Oh, is it? 20180429 23:38:18< mattsc> Getting it to play even one faction in a half-way decent way is the hard part. 20180429 23:38:56< mattsc> Yeah, it is. Fred’s already capable of doing so, it’s disabled in the config, rather than in the functionality. 20180429 23:39:08< celticminstrel> I see. 20180429 23:39:23<+discordbot> I don't see custom AI in LoW? 20180429 23:39:32< mattsc> Because Northerners are clearly the easiest faction to plauy for an AI, and if we can’t even get that right ... 20180429 23:40:55< mattsc> Personally, I have no objections to getting rid of FAI and replacing it all by Lua AI. I have no objections to keeping it around either though. 20180429 23:41:18< mattsc> I do not think we should spend a lot of effort on expanding FAI capability at this point. 20180429 23:41:19<+discordbot> It just seems like Just Another Thing to maintain 20180429 23:42:32<+discordbot> Are you maintaining it? 20180429 23:42:42<+discordbot> No 20180429 23:42:51<+discordbot> Do you maintain any part of the AI engine? 20180429 23:43:16<+discordbot> No. Which is why mattsc would have to decide. 20180429 23:43:24<+discordbot> Exactly. 20180429 23:43:45< mattsc> Actually, I’m not the one maintaining it either. 20180429 23:43:57< mattsc> And the person who is does *a lot* of other things also. 20180429 23:43:59<+discordbot> He's said before he doesn't do C++. 20180429 23:44:15<+discordbot> That said, who is the actual maintainer right now? 20180429 23:44:20<+discordbot> That's a good question 20180429 23:44:29<+discordbot> Good to know the project admin doesn't know. 20180429 23:45:28<+discordbot> I guess celmin is the closest 20180429 23:45:39<+discordbot> He made many changes in 2016 20180429 23:45:49< mattsc> He knows whom to ask though. And I know the answer. 20180429 23:45:54< mattsc> Right, that ^ 20180429 23:46:36< mattsc> That’s the closest we have to an AI maintainer right now. And I can help with certain things, but as was mentioned, C++ is not my forté. 20180429 23:47:27< mattsc> I could help with deciding which of those todos are actually worth doing. 20180429 23:51:53< celticminstrel> Still not sure if I'll actually do it, but I did have the idea of reimplementing the whole FAI engine in Lua. 20180429 23:52:07<+discordbot> https://pastebin.com/J6vxqhpK 20180429 23:52:54< celticminstrel> I have no idea what that second one is, it needs context. Some of the others probably do too. 20180429 23:53:37< celticminstrel> "add formula_debugger" Uh, what? 20180429 23:53:49< mattsc> @Vultraz Yeah, I already did my own grep on the AI code. A lot of that is AI functionality, but a few are about AI behavior. I can definitely help with those. 20180429 23:54:09< celticminstrel> Might need more context to really understand what that means, but a formula debugger definitely already exists (and can actually be fairly useful IIRC). 20180429 23:54:27< mattsc> Yep. 20180429 23:54:37< celticminstrel> (I think it doesn't work too well for GUI2 formulas though.) 20180429 23:56:54< mattsc> celticminstrel: So I am going to ask kind of provocatively: what’s the point of keeping FAI around? And even more, expanding on it? 20180429 23:57:27< mattsc> Not saying that we shouldn’t, just playing devil’s advocate. 20180429 23:57:29< celticminstrel> Well, regarding the point of keeping it around... 20180429 23:57:47< celticminstrel> 1. Compatibility; not sure how relevant that is anymore, though 20180429 23:58:11< celticminstrel> 2. It still has some nice features that Lua AI doesn't have yet. The unit formulas stage is probably the big one in my view. 20180429 23:58:57< mattsc> On 1.: yes, on the relvancy 20180429 23:59:23< mattsc> On 2: there’s no need for a unit formulas stage; you can do that easily with a Lua CA 20180429 23:59:27< celticminstrel> (There may also be some FAI functions that have no clear Lua equivalent, but I haven't looked that closely.) --- Log closed Mon Apr 30 00:00:07 2018