--- Log opened Sun Apr 15 00:00:43 2018 20180415 00:04:35< octalot> kikaza: if you enjoy multiplayer, being online on the 1.14 mp server would probably help (there's currently not many mp games, so not much testing there) 20180415 00:05:05< octalot> if you're in to singleplayer, just checking that all the campaigns work is also good 20180415 00:05:45 * octalot is only a umc dev, just commenting on what I see 20180415 00:08:54<+discordbot> The simplest way is just to download the 1.14 RC release, play it, and report any bugs you find(preferably on Wesnoth's github page). Creating your own add-on is good as well, since user-made content is probably one of the biggest reasons people stick around. Beyond that, if you want to get involved in contributing to Wesnoth itself, you can really take your pick - C++ developers are really what Wesnoth needs most at the moment, 20180415 00:08:54<+discordbot> but there's also unit art/portraits you could try your hand at, translations if you know a non-English language, etc. 20180415 00:17:35-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180415 00:24:07< celticminstrel> "if you know a non-English language" 20180415 00:24:19< celticminstrel> That's really not a sufficient qualification to be a translator IMO. 20180415 00:25:03< celticminstrel> Ideally you should be a native speaker of the target language, or at pretty fluent in it. 20180415 00:25:16< zookeeper> s/pretty/very 20180415 00:25:24< celticminstrel> Yeah. 20180415 00:25:40< celticminstrel> You also need to have a pretty good grasp of English. 20180415 00:26:02< celticminstrel> And it's also best if you've actually had some training in translation. 20180415 00:26:24< celticminstrel> Translation is an art, not a science. As a translator you may need to rephrase or even rewrite passages at times. 20180415 00:26:36< celticminstrel> (Especially if humour is involved.) 20180415 00:26:36< zookeeper> well, in fact, even just being a native speaker doesn't mean one can do good writing in that language. 20180415 00:26:42< celticminstrel> (Puns in particular.) 20180415 00:26:44< celticminstrel> Yeah, indeed. 20180415 00:27:15< celticminstrel> Still, a native speaker would at least generally be able to phrase things not-too-awkwardly in the target language. 20180415 00:30:51< celticminstrel> Okay, trying to decide on AI stuff for my campaign now... 20180415 00:31:29< celticminstrel> So basically mattsc I want the allied leader to move to a particular point, but she shouldn't be too brazen about it and put herself in great danger. 20180415 00:31:50< celticminstrel> I'm not sure whether I should use a micro AI or some kind of menu option thing. 20180415 00:32:25< celticminstrel> Messenger escort and protect unit both seem to fit what I need (though they require specific coordinates for the destination which is a bit annoying). 20180415 00:32:52< celticminstrel> On the other hand, they may not be quite enough. It'd also be nice if she doesn't get too far from your leader.3 20180415 00:33:35-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20180415 00:34:02<+discordbot> not correctly stated on my part then. the point being though, that there aren't many areas where there's nothing left to do. 20180415 00:34:06< celticminstrel> I'm even considering using unit_formulas... 20180415 00:34:12<+discordbot> maybe music. 20180415 00:34:26< celticminstrel> Nah, if someone makes a great new music track, we'd at least consider it. 20180415 00:35:01< celticminstrel> In particular I think it'd be nice if there were at least one track for each major race, maybe even for some of the less major races like nagas. 20180415 00:35:31< celticminstrel> There are tracks that are clearly elf and dwarf oriented, and possibly tracks for humans. 20180415 00:35:46< celticminstrel> Might be some for orcs and/or trolls? But AFAIK there's none for drakes or saurians, for example. 20180415 00:36:02<+discordbot> northerners.ogg 20180415 00:36:07<+discordbot> Guess who it is for. 20180415 00:36:13< celticminstrel> Orcs and/or trolls? 20180415 00:36:17< celticminstrel> And we could use some kinda of desert type track for the dunefolk. 20180415 00:36:23<+discordbot> Really only orcs. 20180415 00:36:35<+discordbot> The problem with trolls in Wesnoth is that they never get permanently banned 20180415 00:36:36<+discordbot> Wait. 20180415 00:36:52<+discordbot> I mean the problem with trolls in Wesnoth is that they are primarily known for their association to the orcs in the Northerners faction. 20180415 00:37:22<+discordbot> There's some tidbits here and there that hint at there being more to them than that, but they don't ever get to shine in mainline. 20180415 00:37:59<+discordbot> shine how? have entirely own faction? 20180415 00:38:08<+discordbot> No. 20180415 00:38:10<+discordbot> trolls? 20180415 00:38:24<+discordbot> I think there are troll characters in SotBE at least 20180415 00:38:37<+discordbot> There are more ways to develop a race than giving them a whole faction of their own. 20180415 00:41:18<+discordbot> A single scenario is all it takes to flesh out any single aspect of the game's lore if you know what you're doing. 20180415 00:42:43<+discordbot> well there are some scenarios about them in SotBE, also they're fleshed out in the encyclopedia too šŸ˜› 20180415 00:43:37<+discordbot> What encyclopedia and which scenarios? 20180415 00:44:04<+discordbot> well it was long time since I played SotBE 20180415 00:44:06<+discordbot> I know there's some text about them in the race's description but that doesn't really qualify. 20180415 00:44:18<+discordbot> iirc they're introduced in second scenario 20180415 00:44:24<+discordbot> It's very static and inert compared to what you get for other races, even orcs. 20180415 00:44:24<+discordbot> and play major role later 20180415 00:56:20< celticminstrel> I guess mattsc is gone. 20180415 00:56:30< celticminstrel> That said, input from anyone else would be welcome too. 20180415 01:15:39-!- octalot [~steve@91.141.2.173.wireless.dyn.drei.com] has quit [] 20180415 01:30:01<+discordbot> they are not fleshed out in sotbe 20180415 01:30:20<+discordbot> and not really any scenario about them 20180415 01:58:41< mattsc> celticminstrel: Iā€™m back now, at least briefly. 20180415 01:59:28< mattsc> It sounds like you do not just want to move the leader, but also other units to stay around the leader? 20180415 01:59:33< celticminstrel> I'm using messenger_escort for now, but I'm kinda unsatisfied with the result. It's not that the escort action is bad though, it works nicely, it's just I think I need something more as well. 20180415 01:59:41< celticminstrel> That is correct. 20180415 02:00:25< mattsc> Yeah, then messnger escort is probably the closest there is. 20180415 02:00:39< mattsc> There might be some way of getting this with the goto MAI, but not sure. 20180415 02:00:53< celticminstrel> I tried that earlier with poor results. 20180415 02:01:05< mattsc> And Assassin Squad might be abusable for the purpose. But again, maybe not. 20180415 02:01:06< celticminstrel> IIRC I set it so that the goto MAI's score was lower than retreat. 20180415 02:01:26< celticminstrel> I might stick with messenger escort for now and revisit it yet again after release. 20180415 02:01:45< mattsc> What does ME not do as you want it? 20180415 02:02:04< mattsc> Maybe it could be achieved with a (relatively) simple tweak to the code? 20180415 02:02:20< celticminstrel> Let's see... 20180415 02:02:42< celticminstrel> I think I'd like the messenger to not advance unprotected, ie wait for the escorts to arrive. 20180415 02:03:10< celticminstrel> And for that purpose I'd also like the messenger to treat a unit on your side as an escort. 20180415 02:03:37< celticminstrel> The latter probably isn't really related to the escort MAI though... 20180415 02:04:01< celticminstrel> I have issues on the enemy sides too TBH. 20180415 02:04:13< mattsc> Hmm ... 20180415 02:04:13< celticminstrel> This whole scenario is kinda a huge mess. 20180415 02:04:29< celticminstrel> I might stick with that for now and revisit it yet again in 20180415 02:04:34< celticminstrel> Whoops. 20180415 02:04:40< celticminstrel> Meant to paste a link but apparently it didn't copy. 20180415 02:04:46< celticminstrel> https://github.com/CelticMinstrel/BlackCrossOfAleron/blob/master/scenarios/05-reinforcements.cfg 20180415 02:05:01< celticminstrel> That's prior to any of my experimentations with AI stuff. 20180415 02:05:18< mattsc> Okay. 20180415 02:05:26< celticminstrel> Locally I also have grouping=offensive on the undead and defensive on the saurians and some aggression/caution tweaks. 20180415 02:05:44< mattsc> A certain type of ā€œwaiting for other unitsā€ could possibly be achieved with the Hang Out MAI, but probably not for your purpose. 20180415 02:05:53< celticminstrel> I might've actually looked at that. 20180415 02:06:28< celticminstrel> Ah, right, that version does have the "undead ignore villages" tweak. 20180415 02:06:51< mattsc> But in any case, it sounds like it should be doable, at least to some extent, with some tweaks to the AI code. 20180415 02:06:52< celticminstrel> ...oh right it has the aggression/caution tweaks already, too. 20180415 02:06:58< celticminstrel> Mmhm. 20180415 02:07:00< mattsc> The ME AI code, I mean. 20180415 02:07:04< celticminstrel> I'm sure it's possible. 20180415 02:07:20< celticminstrel> Wesnoth's AI API is flexible enough that pretty much anything is possible. :P 20180415 02:07:40< mattsc> Well, I didnā€™t mean technically possible, but practically. ;) 20180415 02:07:41< celticminstrel> Unrelatedly I'm noticing that I probably really don't have enough units against the enemy WCs. >_> 20180415 02:07:46< mattsc> Without too much effort. 20180415 02:08:27< mattsc> Iā€™d be happy to take a look if you send me a start-of-scenario save and some slightly more detailed description of what behavior you want. 20180415 02:08:34< celticminstrel> Sure. 20180415 02:09:06< mattsc> Should I take the version of github or of the add-ons server. 20180415 02:09:08< mattsc> ? 20180415 02:09:16< mattsc> *off 20180415 02:09:38< mattsc> ā€¦ and probably I mean ā€˜fromā€™. (I promise, I am not drunk!) 20180415 02:10:47< celticminstrel> Probably Github, there's quite a few significant changes since the last addon server release. 20180415 02:10:58< celticminstrel> Definitely need 1.13.13 too. 20180415 02:11:38< mattsc> Okay, no worries. Just send me a PM (or something) with the save and some description sometime and Iā€™ll have a look ā€¦ as soon as possible, 20180415 03:05:33-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180415 03:05:39-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20180415 04:00:28-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth 20180415 04:05:53-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20180415 04:49:03-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth 20180415 04:54:09-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy] 20180415 04:57:45-!- synthpopisback [~synthpopi@cpe-2606-A000-7947-5000-DC96-302C-536A-ECD2.dyn6.twc.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20180415 04:58:29-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth 20180415 05:09:32<+discordbot> I love to see people helping each other :). lol :3 20180415 05:12:22-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy] 20180415 05:12:56-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth 20180415 05:45:02-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy] 20180415 06:03:57-!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20180415 06:05:34-!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #wesnoth 20180415 06:49:19-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth 20180415 06:50:41-!- celticminstrel is now known as celmin|sleep 20180415 07:03:31-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy] 20180415 07:26:59-!- gallaecio [~quassel@188.79.96.255] has joined #wesnoth 20180415 07:38:15-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth 20180415 07:39:55-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Client Quit] 20180415 07:46:26-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth 20180415 07:48:15-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth 20180415 08:09:43-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy] 20180415 08:40:46<+discordbot> Hello there 20180415 08:40:57<+discordbot> I didn't play this game in ages damn 20180415 08:57:02<+discordbot> hi master @Kuba 20180415 08:57:14<+discordbot> Yeah i was on the same boat about 2 months ago hehe :D 20180415 08:57:34<+discordbot> what's your favorite faction? 20180415 09:20:33-!- tomlukeywood [~tom@host-92-19-232-58.static.as13285.net] has joined #wesnoth 20180415 09:27:48-!- tomlukeywood [~tom@host-92-19-232-58.static.as13285.net] has quit [Quit: tomlukeywood] 20180415 09:48:20<+discordbot> Celcitminstrel, isn't [leader_gold] a good option for what you want? You can set caution to avoid reckless movements 20180415 09:49:11<+discordbot> then even a zone_guardian micro ai can be used to move other units to protect it 20180415 09:51:21<+discordbot> btw, there are a few very good middle-eastern sounding music tracks, it would be nice to have one added to mainline, since the dunefolk are there now 20180415 09:53:28-!- louis94 [~~louis94@91.176.171.238] has joined #wesnoth 20180415 09:59:59-!- louis94 [~~louis94@91.176.171.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20180415 10:06:21-!- louis94 [~~louis94@91.176.171.238] has joined #wesnoth 20180415 11:01:21-!- claymore [~claymore@unaffiliated/claymore] has joined #wesnoth 20180415 11:13:06-!- louis94 [~~louis94@91.176.171.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20180415 11:47:55<+discordbot> @Crimson_Conure probably Northerners 20180415 11:52:29-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has joined #wesnoth 20180415 13:25:57<+discordbot> Is it a sane idea to try to beat Northern Rebirth by using nothing but peasants? 20180415 13:44:22-!- vn971 [~vasya@94.158.103.15] has joined #wesnoth 20180415 14:49:15<+discordbot> no 20180415 14:49:48<+discordbot> i was wondering whether no loss northern rebirth nightmare playthought is theoretically possible and i came to a conclusion that - most likely it is not 20180415 15:00:36-!- louis94 [~~louis94@91.176.171.238] has joined #wesnoth 20180415 15:01:39< celmin|sleep> @skeptical_troll: [leader_goal] is quite simplistic, so... 20180415 15:01:59< celmin|sleep> I did try using a zone_guardian MicroAI with a moving zone, it didn't seem to work out too well. 20180415 15:02:50-!- celmin|sleep is now known as celticminstrel 20180415 15:04:00<+discordbot> you can define the zone using the unit to protect, if it's not what you are already doing. I guess the problem is that the guadians will randomly move around in the zone 20180415 15:04:53< celticminstrel> Yeah, that was probably the problem. 20180415 15:05:58<+discordbot> I don't know exactly what you are trying to achieve, but you can always assign a few units to escort the leader, defining the zone to be within one hex or two 20180415 15:29:37-!- louis94 [~~louis94@91.176.171.238] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180415 15:30:06-!- louis94 [~~louis94@91.176.171.238] has joined #wesnoth 20180415 15:41:01<+discordbot> loving this useful error message šŸ™„ 20180415 15:41:01<+discordbot> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/231976805987385345/435102245701287938/unknown.png 20180415 15:59:09-!- louis94 [~~louis94@91.176.171.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20180415 16:48:41-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth 20180415 17:25:03-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180415 17:40:58-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has joined #wesnoth 20180415 18:16:19<+discordbot> Is it only me or is the menu for advanced options (in the preferences or what it's called in english) is a little bit hard to use? Wouldn't it be better to decrease a tiny bit the size of the letters to avoid having to scroll horizontally? 20180415 18:16:55<+discordbot> Damn, youā€™re getting a scrollbar? 20180415 18:18:16<+discordbot> Yes and it feels a little bit bugged 20180415 18:18:28<+discordbot> in general, the font sizing in 1.13 could use more normalization 20180415 18:18:48<+discordbot> as in the font sizes are different in a lot of places 20180415 18:18:49<+discordbot> Oh wait, I'm getting 2 scrollbars 20180415 18:19:56<+discordbot> The font sizes are standard 20180415 18:20:19<+discordbot> Their use in any given area is dependent on what looks best 20180415 18:20:32< Ravana_> when speaking of horizontal scrollbar, with 1.13.14, long game titles cause one in lobby 20180415 18:20:45<+discordbot> Precluding any markup-based size mods 20180415 18:21:10<+discordbot> what do you mean what looks best 20180415 18:21:13<+discordbot> who determined that 20180415 18:23:51<+discordbot> Me 20180415 18:23:52-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy] 20180415 18:24:17<+discordbot> Anyway, the horizontal scrollbar is not intentional 20180415 18:25:58< celticminstrel> "best" 20180415 18:26:03<+discordbot> >_> 20180415 18:26:17< celticminstrel> Please at least make sure the font size for general text is consistent. 20180415 18:26:20<+discordbot> probably need to get the opinion of a graphic designer 20180415 18:26:27< celticminstrel> That would be nice too. 20180415 18:26:29<+discordbot> IIRC languages that have longer text tend to have the horizontal scrollbar issue 20180415 18:27:14<+discordbot> since things like the preferences dialog don't/can't resize themselves to accommodate 20180415 18:27:30<+discordbot> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/231976805987385345/435144146353782794/unknown.png 20180415 18:27:47<+discordbot> as an example, the entries under the action column and the hotkey column don't have the same size 20180415 18:28:00<+discordbot> so their centers end up being offset 20180415 18:31:58<+discordbot> huh 20180415 18:32:04<+discordbot> never noticed that before, honestly 20180415 18:33:53<+discordbot> Wait, they are not the same font size? 20180415 18:34:30<+discordbot> doesn't look like it to me 20180415 18:34:46<+discordbot> I don't particularly care tbh 20180415 18:34:53<+discordbot> just that some people I was talking to do 20180415 18:35:04<+discordbot> Yeah, the action column uses a smaller font. 20180415 18:35:23<+discordbot> it happens in a lot of places šŸ¤· 20180415 18:35:43<+discordbot> The best fix here is to make the Hotkey column conform to the same font size IMO. 20180415 18:36:05<+discordbot> I suppose you can make a case for some but I've only ever had one graphics design class so I can't give a good opinion on what design option is more typical/"better" 20180415 18:36:22<+discordbot> as in where you should be using different font sizes or styles 20180415 18:36:54<+discordbot> yeah, not great now that I notice it: 20180415 18:37:00<+discordbot> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/231976805987385345/435146539019534346/unknown.png 20180415 18:37:59<+discordbot> The only question here is which one should be the font size for the rows, really, the bigger one or the smaller one. 20180415 18:38:25-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth 20180415 18:38:27<+discordbot> I'm not entirely sure why the Action column is using a smaller font size than the default for list elements really. 20180415 18:38:45<+discordbot> Ooh I see the Quenoth elves have been redesigned again and completely remade too, the shaman unit looks 100x better than before 20180415 18:44:00<+discordbot> it really depends on how much work figuring out the font sizing and styling is 20180415 18:44:11<+discordbot> if it's a lot, maybe not worth doing for 1.14 šŸ¤· 20180415 18:50:22-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy] 20180415 18:56:00<+discordbot> It should be relatively trivial really, for that isolated case. 20180415 18:56:22<+discordbot> The bigger picture is more complicated because to this date there still aren't official UI design guidelines for Wesnoth. 20180415 18:58:11<+discordbot> right, I only gave that as an example 20180415 19:03:57< celticminstrel> Saurians or nagas should totally have a swamp ambush unit. 20180415 19:04:54<+discordbot> saurian hunter? 20180415 19:05:10< celticminstrel> I don't really play much UMC so I have no idea what that is. 20180415 19:05:17<+discordbot> no I meant as an idea 20180415 19:05:37<+discordbot> could be like a saurian archer, or alternative a utility unit with slow 20180415 19:05:38<+discordbot> and ambush 20180415 19:05:56< celticminstrel> Oh. 20180415 19:06:05< celticminstrel> What was the name of the L3 Oricish Assassin again... 20180415 19:06:08< celticminstrel> Nightshade or something? 20180415 19:06:12< celticminstrel> ^Orcish 20180415 19:06:23<+discordbot> probably nightblade 20180415 19:06:56< celticminstrel> Yup, that's the one, thanks. 20180415 19:36:28-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180415 19:36:35-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20180415 19:57:02-!- graxwell [~graxwell@50-0-67-34.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com] has joined #wesnoth 20180415 19:58:08-!- claymore [~claymore@unaffiliated/claymore] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20180415 20:07:27<+discordbot> is hosting a Hamlets match, if anyone wants to join 20180415 20:40:40-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth 20180415 20:54:38-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy] 20180415 21:01:12-!- louis94 [~~louis94@91.176.171.238] has joined #wesnoth 20180415 21:03:39<+discordbot> Hey I've noticed the new Quenoth Elves sometimes lack descriptions (and when they have them it's pretty short), is this going to change in 1.14 ? 20180415 21:05:07<+discordbot> Not at this point, I would imagine. 20180415 21:06:17<+discordbot> maybe for 1.14.1, if there's something suitable to use, but text changes aren't being done right now so the translators can get everything in order for 1.14.0. 20180415 21:16:04< celticminstrel> It won't change in 1.14.0. It may change in 1.14.1. 20180415 21:29:38-!- gallaecio [~quassel@188.79.96.255] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180415 21:31:25-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth 20180415 21:39:36-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy] 20180415 22:02:42-!- louis94 [~~louis94@91.176.171.238] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 20180415 22:03:44-!- louis94 [~~louis94@91.176.171.238] has joined #wesnoth 20180415 22:41:43-!- louis94 [~~louis94@91.176.171.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20180415 22:42:57-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20180415 23:01:11-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180415 23:16:27-!- Smedles [~quassel@101.166.204.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20180415 23:41:29-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth 20180415 23:53:29-!- Smedles [~quassel@101.166.204.105] has joined #wesnoth --- Log closed Mon Apr 16 00:00:44 2018