--- Log opened Wed May 16 00:00:48 2018 20180516 00:44:14-!- louis94 [~~louis94@91.176.171.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20180516 00:48:34< celticminstrel> https://steamcommunity.com/app/599390/discussions/0/2828702373007971871/ 20180516 00:58:55<+discordbot> @zookeeper I'm not a major contributor, but prefer to appear in statistics, so I would rather have my PR rejected for rework. 20180516 01:03:50< gfgt> celmin: they don't show the error message, so it could just be the known map generator bug. 20180516 01:04:14< celticminstrel> There's a possible workaround posted there too. 20180516 01:04:28< celticminstrel> Does that make sense for the known map generator bug? 20180516 01:04:48< celticminstrel> Also, I may have misread, but isn't it an error occurring when you end scenario 17? 20180516 01:04:48< Ravana_> trying to define wml tag that applies all [effect]s included in its cfg to unit, but not sure how to get all childs from cfg 20180516 01:05:13< Ravana_> wml.get_child gives one entry, and wml.child_array gives table of vconfig 20180516 01:05:17< celticminstrel> Isn't that exactly what [modify_unit] does? 20180516 01:05:32< celticminstrel> But if you want to iterate over children it's wml.child_range. 20180516 01:06:01< celticminstrel> Still, I think [modify_unit] already does what you want here. 20180516 01:06:42< celticminstrel> Like [modify_unt] [filter]canrecruit=yes[/filter] [effect]apply_to=healthy[/effect] 20180516 01:07:00< gfgt> They say ' i just completed scenario ''Hasty Alliance''.' 20180516 01:07:13< celticminstrel> Ah, okay. 20180516 01:07:26< irker002> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master e0beff661528 / / (7 files in 5 dirs): Rename gettext_boost.cpp to gettext.cpp https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/e0beff6615288a580553ee43ff3799a9794625b4 20180516 01:07:37< celticminstrel> But note what the workaround is, can that make sense if it's the map generator bug? 20180516 01:07:38< Ravana_> that is exactly what I want yes 20180516 01:09:39<+discordbot> ah @jyrkive there you are 20180516 01:09:55<+discordbot> @jyrkive is "Cap framerate to 60 FPS" a better label for the FPS limiter option? 20180516 01:10:03<+discordbot> No. 20180516 01:10:04< gfgt> Well the bug happens randomly so _any_ workaround had a 50% chace of working. 20180516 01:10:13<+discordbot> By default, it's capped to the screen refresh rate. 20180516 01:10:55<+discordbot> what would a better label be? 20180516 01:11:02<+discordbot> Don't ask me. 20180516 01:11:08<+discordbot> you added it :/ 20180516 01:11:25<+discordbot> Because I thought that the current label would be the best option. 20180516 01:11:36<+discordbot> Thus, asking me what would be better is pointless. 20180516 01:11:51<+discordbot> I see 20180516 01:11:54<+discordbot> Blah 20180516 01:12:24<+discordbot> and i guess it's not vsync since that means matching the screen refresh rate... 20180516 01:12:47<+discordbot> Indeed, the rendering subsystem doesn't use vsync. 20180516 01:16:14< Ravana_> thanks, modify_unit works for me. seems its only difference to what I was trying to do is that modify_unit needs [object] around effect 20180516 01:16:28<+discordbot> how about...."Limit map redraws per second" 20180516 01:16:57<+discordbot> Wouldn't just "limit FPS" be better? 20180516 01:17:13<+discordbot> Or "limit frames per second", if you'd rather expand the acronym. 20180516 01:18:47<+discordbot> The average player would disable an option claiming to limit their FPS, especially since we've had a few people report lagging, etc. But the caveat here is this actually increases your CPU usage... 20180516 01:19:08<+discordbot> I mean, no one wants to think they're not getting as much FPS as possible. 20180516 01:19:40<+discordbot> This is a counterintuitive option. 20180516 01:19:44<+discordbot> I'd think that a player would at least stop to think about why that option is enabled by default. 20180516 01:20:19<+discordbot> In general, us game developers aren't complete idiots and don't enable options no one would ever want to use as defaults. 20180516 01:23:57<+discordbot> this is true... 20180516 01:24:54<+discordbot> guess I'll just go with "Limit FPS" 20180516 01:25:56< irker002> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:1.14 afb13209b7b2 / data/gui/window/preferences/03_display.cfg: Preferences: tweaked FPS limiter option display https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/afb13209b7b2f195d37712a18ca4923293bcf8ac 20180516 01:27:09<+discordbot> anyone else have any string changes? 20180516 01:28:03<+discordbot> oh yeah 20180516 01:28:19<+discordbot> weren't we going to rename the Determinstic Mode button? 20180516 01:28:48<+discordbot> to um... 20180516 01:28:53<+discordbot> what was it 20180516 01:29:13<+discordbot> @jyrkive you suggested "Save Random Seed" 20180516 01:29:36<+discordbot> It wasn't my suggestion IIRC, but it's the option I support. 20180516 01:31:23<+discordbot> "And should the temptation to reload saves in search of more favorable outcomes overcome players, the new Deterministic Mode option will keep them in check." 20180516 01:31:35<+discordbot> -- The 1.14 Release Announcement, 2018 20180516 01:31:46<+discordbot> I am aware 20180516 01:31:51<+discordbot> And? 20180516 01:31:57<+discordbot> Rock and a hard place 20180516 01:32:17<+discordbot> The name isn't great but we've already mentioned the name 20180516 01:33:21<+discordbot> So either we don't change the name and keep the bad one, or we change it and become inconsistent with the announcement 2 weeks after it went live. 20180516 01:33:49<+discordbot> I don't know, maybe it's not that important. It's not even been translated to the majority of big languages yet. 20180516 01:34:04<+discordbot> How would you even translate it. 20180516 01:34:21<+discordbot> (For some mysterious reason that probably involves the fact that it was finalized after the fact.) 20180516 01:34:23<+discordbot> Something tells me it's not the easiest thing to convey 20180516 01:34:45<+discordbot> I don't know what the translation for "random seed" is in Spanish but there surely is one. 20180516 01:35:06<+discordbot> There are a lot of terms I can't translate into Spanish simply because I've never had a real need to do so. 20180516 01:36:54<+discordbot> I actually like "Deterministic Mode". It's easily translated into my languages too, as they use the same Latin root. 20180516 01:36:54-!- gfgt [~androirc@134.76.63.8] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20180516 01:37:20<+discordbot> Semantics are more important in this case. "Deterministic" also has a trivial translation to Spanish. 20180516 01:37:48<+discordbot> That's completely irrelevant in the face of the fact that the option's name is misleading. 20180516 01:39:12<+discordbot> Is the name not what the option is doing? 20180516 01:39:42<+discordbot> The name is too unspecific and suggests that it alters gameplay to be less random. 20180516 01:40:00<+discordbot> That's not the case. It's still random, it's just that the sequence of random numbers is predetermined. 20180516 01:40:22<+discordbot> As opposed to changing every time the game is loaded. 20180516 01:41:00<+discordbot> Incidentally, Civ V has a similar option, although it works the other way around by default. 20180516 01:41:09<+discordbot> So it's labeled "New Random Seed" instead. 20180516 01:45:24<+discordbot> Just my opinion: "Deterministic" doesn't mean "less random". In context of Wesnoth, "less random" doesn't make sense to me, as long as (pseudo)random probabilities are still involved. 20180516 01:46:01<+discordbot> For me, what comes to mind is "not random at all", which is even worse. 20180516 01:46:35<+discordbot> Agree. 20180516 01:46:49<+discordbot> I imagined it would work by, for example, making all damage fractional, by simply multiplying the regulat chance-to-hit and damage per hit. 20180516 01:47:32<+discordbot> Thinking one step ahead... this might actually make players savescum MORE, because a player can vary the sequence of attacks, and thus there will exist an optimal sequence of attacks, and player is tempted to figure it out by savescumming. 20180516 01:48:04<+discordbot> That's something I've been pondering for years actually. 20180516 01:48:30<+discordbot> But I think the dev who introduced the option was more concerned about getting the exact same sequence for debugging purposes rather than gameplay purposes. 20180516 01:48:43<+discordbot> Ah, ok 😃 20180516 01:49:09<+discordbot> I did tell him that perhaps it'd be better to not display the option by default but he declined to comment on that idea at the time. 20180516 01:50:32<+discordbot> An example of such save-scumming would be a situation where both you and your enemy have four attacks, and the battle goes completely against you. Every second number from the RNG is low and every second number is high. 20180516 01:50:48<+discordbot> To exploit it, simply attack an unit with two attacks with another unit that has one. 20180516 01:51:08<+discordbot> Bam, you have reversed the assignment of the numbers. The high numbers go to you and the low numbers to the AI. 20180516 01:53:16<+discordbot> I was thinking, what was the reason for the option 😃 My thought was - was this option caused by players' complaints about game's randomness? If so, then it's not how I would react. I would explain that managing randomness is a separate skill that Wesnoth players learn. For example, MtG is based on random shuffling, and still top players always end up winning championships somehow. It's the way Wesnoth was designed, after all. 20180516 01:53:35<+discordbot> Nope, it wasn't introduced to address the RNG complaints. 20180516 01:53:47<+discordbot> But something else was. 20180516 01:56:47< EliDupree> jyrkive: Don't know about this particular wesnoth feature, but it's possible in general to implement determinism without that particular exploit. Combine your move data into the random seed. That way the same move has the same result in the same situation, but there's no predictable sequence that's the same with different moves. 20180516 01:57:02< EliDupree> Naturally, you can still save scum almost as much as normal, just by doing a slightly different move each time. 20180516 01:58:18<+discordbot> You can savescum much more now, as you have purpose! 😄 20180516 02:05:18<+discordbot> so renaming the option seems to be the better option here 20180516 02:06:46<+discordbot> did someone mess with the music audio in 1.14.1? 20180516 02:07:07<+discordbot> What seems to be the problem? 20180516 02:07:16<+discordbot> it's clipping like crazy 20180516 02:07:23<+discordbot> the gain is really really really high compared to before 20180516 02:07:25<+discordbot> no, no one 20180516 02:07:38<+discordbot> I wonder if it's a problem with my settings or something 20180516 02:07:47<+discordbot> grain? 20180516 02:07:55<+discordbot> Gain. 20180516 02:07:58<+discordbot> what is gain 20180516 02:08:08<+discordbot> in this context 20180516 02:08:26<+discordbot> you have an audio track that's quiet, so you amplify the signal 20180516 02:08:31<+discordbot> if you amplify it too much, it begins clipping 20180516 02:09:32<+discordbot> that's what I"m hearing right now, and even if I turn the music volume way down, it's still clipping a lot 20180516 02:10:00<+discordbot> so it seems to me like a large amount of gain is being introduced somewhere along the line 20180516 02:12:56< irker002> wesnoth: Jyrki Vesterinen wesnoth:1.14 b0c1382693f4 / src/actions/attack.cpp: Allow modifying dead units in more event handlers https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/b0c1382693f4d72d7ad8f662ad91612da72b6781 20180516 02:13:15<+discordbot> Well, I can tell you that the sound code was last changed in version 1.13.12. 20180516 02:13:43<+discordbot> And it hasn't seen non-formatting changes since 1.13.11. 20180516 02:13:53<+discordbot> 🤔 could be a steam issue too 20180516 02:13:58< irker002> wesnoth: Jyrki Vesterinen wesnoth:master 9110e49760e4 / src/actions/attack.cpp: Allow modifying dead units in more event handlers https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/9110e49760e40d9856b96f884f3c1636e034768c 20180516 02:19:18<+discordbot> celticminstrel: https://wiki.wesnoth.org/ConditionalActionsWML#.5Bforeach.5D -- the documentation refers to an item_var that isn't documented. 20180516 02:48:22< celticminstrel> IIRC it was renamed. 20180516 02:49:21< celticminstrel> Ravana_: It shouldn't need [object] around [effect] in [modify_unit]. 20180516 02:49:36< celticminstrel> In fact, adding the surrounding [object] would subtly change the meaning. 20180516 02:50:07< celticminstrel> @Vultraz, I don't think I like "Save Random Seed". 20180516 02:52:49< celticminstrel> But I can also see how "Deterministic Mode" is quite misleading. 20180516 03:02:08<+discordbot> zookeeper: I made a rework of the last scenario for THoT 20180516 03:02:46<+discordbot> what's the best way for me to upload it to be playtested? 20180516 03:02:51<+discordbot> the add-on server? 20180516 03:09:54<+discordbot> If the new name for the deterministic mode option is going to be bikeshedded to death then we might as well have the string freeze now and postpone making a choice for 1.14.3. 20180516 03:12:46<+discordbot> @Yumi just submit a PR 20180516 03:13:37<+discordbot> you're assuming that my rework is well-tested and is bug free 20180516 03:13:41<+discordbot> celmin: what would you propose? 20180516 03:14:09< celticminstrel> Not sure. 20180516 03:14:15< celticminstrel> Maybe... 20180516 03:14:19< celticminstrel> "repeatable"? 20180516 03:14:21< celticminstrel> I dunno. 20180516 03:15:05<+discordbot> ...no 20180516 03:15:21< celticminstrel> Well it definitely gets the meaning across better than deterministic. 20180516 03:15:30< celticminstrel> Though I can't say "Repeatable Mode" sounds good. 20180516 03:15:30<+discordbot> how is "Save random seed" bad 20180516 03:15:43< celticminstrel> It's not bad per se, but it's also very technical? 20180516 03:15:49< celticminstrel> It's accurate, certainly. 20180516 03:16:05<+discordbot> if civ uses something similar that's good enough for me 20180516 03:16:07<+discordbot> You'll be hard-pressed to find a non-technical name for a technical option that doesn't sound dumb. 20180516 03:16:12< celticminstrel> Maybe. 20180516 03:16:59<+discordbot> @shadowm I need to decide whether to introduce an advanced pref for the PRNG option before the string freeze 20180516 03:17:14<+discordbot> I'm not sure I should since I don't know if dave even wired it in properly 20180516 03:17:18<+discordbot> I haven't tested yet 20180516 03:17:23<+discordbot> I'm glad you decided to leave that until the last minute. 20180516 03:17:23< celticminstrel> ... 20180516 03:17:39<+discordbot> I forgot the string freeze was imminent 20180516 03:24:11< celticminstrel> How imminent is the string freeze BTW? 20180516 03:24:21<+discordbot> was supposed to 3.5 hours ago 20180516 03:24:27<+discordbot> to be 20180516 03:24:29<+discordbot> It was supposed to be yesterday. 20180516 03:24:33< celticminstrel> Ah, guess I don't have time to get that in after all. :/ 20180516 03:24:41<+discordbot> Over 24 hours ago. 20180516 03:24:44<+discordbot> uhhh 20180516 03:24:45<+discordbot> what? 20180516 03:24:52<+discordbot> One week, Vultraz. 20180516 03:25:02<+discordbot> yes, so Tuesday 20180516 03:25:09<+discordbot> One week, and the chat description above clearly says "1.14.2 scheduled for Tuesday, May 22nd, 00:01 UTC". 20180516 03:25:14<+discordbot> oh wait 20180516 03:25:14<+discordbot> fuck 20180516 03:25:19<+discordbot> One week before that would be Tuesday, May 15th, 00:01 UTC. 20180516 03:25:20<+discordbot> im screwing up time again 20180516 03:25:27< celticminstrel> IOW Monday. 20180516 03:25:37<+discordbot> It's currently Wednesday, May 16th, 03:25 UTC. 20180516 03:25:53<+discordbot> meh 20180516 03:26:23<+discordbot> it's not that urgent now that we're pushing translations every week 20180516 03:26:30< celticminstrel> Yes it is. 20180516 03:26:42< celticminstrel> Anyway I suggest leaving the new RNG to 1.14.3, then. 20180516 03:27:07<+discordbot> Not everyone uses Steam and please don't rebut that with "BUT STEAM IS SO MUCH BETTER OMG WHY CANT EVERYONE DO THINGS THE WAY I WANT". 20180516 03:27:08< celticminstrel> Pushing translations every week is 100% irrelevant, because that's only for Steam. 20180516 03:27:33<+discordbot> I'm focused on Steam users. 20180516 03:27:38< celticminstrel> That's the problem. 20180516 03:27:48<+discordbot> smh 20180516 03:27:52< celticminstrel> ? 20180516 03:27:54<+discordbot> you have a point though 20180516 03:28:02<+discordbot> SMH = shaking my head 20180516 03:28:12< celticminstrel> ... 20180516 03:29:02<+discordbot> Didn't I just say "don't do that"? 20180516 03:29:09<+discordbot> alright, let's leave the PRNG option until 1.14.3 20180516 03:29:17<+discordbot> so, I guess we can do a string freeze now 20180516 03:29:23< celticminstrel> Technically it's already in as a hidden option, but yes. 20180516 03:29:28<+discordbot> someone needs to run the pot update 20180516 03:29:40<+discordbot> let's see, what time is it for loony... 20180516 03:29:50<+discordbot> too early 20180516 03:29:51<+discordbot> Russia is asleep right now. 20180516 03:30:07<+discordbot> can you run it? 20180516 03:30:13<+discordbot> Yes. 20180516 03:30:17<+discordbot> ty 20180516 03:48:25-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has quit [Quit: KABOOM! It seems that I have exploded. Please wait while I reinstall the universe.] 20180516 04:06:26< irker002> wesnoth: Iris Morelle wesnoth:1.14 de068044149f / / (617 files in 14 dirs): pot and documentation update https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/de068044149f0b32b45fb1124fad5af64dae7a2a 20180516 04:20:14<+discordbot> Sent the email to the translators ML. 20180516 04:44:04<+discordbot> If I were to add an attribute to [message] to allow setting the default [option] selected, that would only be put in 1.15, not 1.14, correct? 20180516 04:49:57-!- Stragus [~alexis@modemcable198.134-161-184.mc.videotron.ca] has left #wesnoth-dev ["Thanks for all the fish"] 20180516 04:55:28< irker002> wesnoth/wesnoth:master Aaron Winter 77fd148f06 SotBE: Changed a few dates to fit the tw AppVeyor: All builds passed 20180516 05:01:55< irker002> wesnoth: Wedge009 wesnoth:1.14 9de402b58a13 / data/core/units.cfg utils/pofix.py: 'moreso' isn't a word in any dialect of English. https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/9de402b58a13b1f0e4aacf9b11f2d3753d5f3ff2 20180516 05:02:22<+discordbot> Ugh. 20180516 05:02:36<+discordbot> You need to run pofix on the catalogues and catalogue templates when you commit changes like this. 20180516 05:03:28<+discordbot> Also note that the textdomains in pofix are only there for reference purposes, it doesn't actually use different substitutions for different textdomains and lumps them all in one big list. 20180516 05:04:29< shadowm> wedge009: ^ 20180516 05:06:11< wedge009> I'm sorry, I'm only doing what I've been told previously in terms of corrections. 20180516 05:06:44<+discordbot> Whoever told you how to do this didn't tell you the full story then. 20180516 05:06:45< wedge009> There seems to be so many methods for this situation and that, I don't necessarily know what's required. 20180516 05:07:17<+discordbot> If you don't run pofix on the catalogues then the strings will get fuzzied again on the next pot-update. 20180516 05:07:43< wedge009> What am I supposed to do, then? 20180516 05:08:08<+discordbot> $ pofix po/*/*.po* 20180516 05:08:21<+discordbot> Use git diff to make sure the changes are correct. 20180516 05:08:34< wedge009> I'll have to switch systems to do that, then. 20180516 05:08:38< wedge009> Hang on. 20180516 05:08:57<+discordbot> If it's too much trouble I can do it. 20180516 05:09:12< wedge009> I should learn so I don't keep getting people going 'ugh' at me. 20180516 05:21:01<+discordbot> hmm 20180516 05:21:17<+discordbot> how do I add map and cfg files to a pull request? 20180516 05:21:53< irker002> wesnoth: Wedge009 wesnoth:1.14 88d8d27b0b72 / po/wesnoth-help/ (58 files): Running pofix https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/88d8d27b0b72a7b3ff37dded47ea1667dd81afa3 20180516 05:23:04< wedge009> Did I do that right? 20180516 05:23:32< wedge009> @Yumi What's different about those files to your normal pull request? 20180516 05:23:42<+discordbot> I've never made a pull request before 20180516 05:24:01<+discordbot> so I can't really say anything about a "normal pull request" 20180516 05:26:29< wedge009> The way I've done it is just to make a branch in my own repository with whatever changes I think are needed, then submit the pull request using that branch. 20180516 05:27:39<+discordbot> wedge009: When I said *.po* I meant *.po* so it covers *.pot as well. 20180516 05:28:01<+discordbot> Also, did you make sure there weren't any unexpected changes to the files or others that aren't in that commit? 20180516 05:32:41<+discordbot> wedge009: it's odd that fix wasn't there already... since I copied the text from master 20180516 05:33:02< wedge009> Doing that now. And yes. 20180516 05:33:10< wedge009> Vultraz: shadowm reverted it. 20180516 05:33:22<+discordbot> uhhhhh 20180516 05:33:35<+discordbot> is the fix not on master either now? 20180516 05:33:46<+discordbot> What did I revert now? 20180516 05:34:12< irker002> wesnoth: Wedge009 wesnoth:1.14 2e312a6d5711 / po/wesnoth-help/wesnoth-help.pot: Running pofix on pot files too... https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/2e312a6d57114ab05489666a124c803624afa5ca 20180516 05:34:18< wedge009> No, that correction is not in master. 20180516 05:34:31<+discordbot> Oh yes, because at the time the pofix rule applied only to master and not 1.14. 20180516 05:34:54<+discordbot> but the text fix should be in master too 20180516 05:35:07<+discordbot> And at the time it wasn't in 1.14 20180516 05:35:30<+discordbot> can someone re-apply the text change on master 20180516 05:35:51<+discordbot> Basically the issue here is that the typo made it before the string freeze. 20180516 05:36:04<+discordbot> When it was already a known issue. 20180516 05:36:25<+discordbot> there's never been a string freeze on master 20180516 05:36:33<+discordbot> The string freeze on 1.14. 20180516 05:36:44<+discordbot> The string with the "moreso" in 1.14 didn't just appear out of thin air. 20180516 05:37:14<+discordbot> I copied it from master. I don't understand why you would revert the text change on master even though the pofix rule was irreverent 20180516 05:37:22<+discordbot> blah 20180516 05:37:32<+discordbot> irrelevant 20180516 05:37:43<+discordbot> I didn't mean to revert the text fix. 20180516 05:38:32< wedge009> So... should I exclude the pofix stuff then? 20180516 05:38:38<+discordbot> No. 20180516 05:38:42< wedge009> Okay. 20180516 05:39:37< irker002> wesnoth: Wedge009 wesnoth:master e161d5953645 / data/core/units.cfg utils/pofix.py: Revert "Revert "'moreso' isn't a word in any dialect of English."" https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/e161d59536452ca78897d92cb2eaae2099228075 20180516 05:39:47<+discordbot> I was in the middle of pushing that but ok. 20180516 05:40:34<+discordbot> Also I don't know when Vultraz requested the revert to be reverted tbh. 20180516 05:41:23< wedge009> can someone re-apply the text change on master 20180516 06:45:48-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180516 06:46:43< irker002> wesnoth: Iris Morelle steam-meta:master 55532a94670a / po/cs.po: Update Czech translation metadata https://github.com/wesnoth/steam-meta/commit/55532a94670a06c16f6af53452dd63900406f918 20180516 07:23:54-!- foodtooth [7442b8c2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.116.66.184.194] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180516 07:59:41<+discordbot> there is a new string "invalid location id" in the wesnoth-lib. Location of what, of I may ask? 20180516 08:00:04<+discordbot> oh wait, it is in wesnoth-editor* 20180516 08:05:18< zookeeper> @Yumi, sure, a PR. but if you want to make sure a number of people actually try it, posting it on the forums too seems like a good idea. 20180516 08:16:45-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180516 08:16:51-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180516 08:27:48< irker002> wesnoth/wesnoth:1.14 Jyrki Vesterinen b0c1382693 Allow modifying dead units in more event AppVeyor: All builds passed 20180516 08:37:19<+discordbot> Oh my 20180516 09:07:11-!- louis94 [~~louis94@91.176.171.238] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180516 09:08:29-!- gfg [~androirc@tmo-106-17.customers.d1-online.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180516 09:19:47-!- foodtooth [7442b8c2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.116.66.184.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20180516 09:25:21-!- louis94 [~~louis94@91.176.171.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20180516 09:27:15<+discordbot> :thonk: 20180516 09:43:20-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180516 10:01:53-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20180516 10:03:18-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180516 10:05:30-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180516 10:12:08< irker002> wesnoth/wesnoth:master Jyrki Vesterinen 9110e49760 Allow modifying dead units in more event AppVeyor: All builds passed 20180516 11:00:20-!- mkdroid [~null@unaffiliated/matthiaskrgr] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180516 11:05:49-!- mkdr0id [~null@unaffiliated/matthiaskrgr] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180516 11:07:21-!- mkdroid [~null@unaffiliated/matthiaskrgr] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 20180516 11:12:29-!- mkdr0id [~null@unaffiliated/matthiaskrgr] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 20180516 11:17:42-!- lipkab [~the_new_l@109-61-8-190.adsl-fix.dravanet.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20180516 11:21:33-!- mkdroid [~null@unaffiliated/matthiaskrgr] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180516 11:23:47-!- mkdroid [~null@unaffiliated/matthiaskrgr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20180516 11:23:53-!- mkdr0id [~null@unaffiliated/matthiaskrgr] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180516 11:27:49-!- mkdroid [~null@unaffiliated/matthiaskrgr] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180516 11:28:33-!- mkdr0id [~null@unaffiliated/matthiaskrgr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20180516 11:41:56-!- mkdroid [~null@unaffiliated/matthiaskrgr] has quit [Quit: I'll be back!] 20180516 12:21:29-!- gfg [~androirc@tmo-106-17.customers.d1-online.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180516 12:35:46< irker002> wesnoth/wesnoth:1.14 Wedge009 2e312a6d57 Running pofix on pot files too... AppVeyor: All builds passed 20180516 12:37:34-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180516 12:58:22-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180516 13:07:30-!- ToBeCloud [uid51591@wikimedia/ToBeFree] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180516 13:40:33<+discordbot> What compatability break can make player sides fail to load when going to next level in 1.14? 20180516 14:01:43<+discordbot> The addon worked well in 1.12, but in 1.14 it can't recall the leader to the start position at the start of the 2nd scenario. 20180516 14:05:57-!- mkdr0id [~null@unaffiliated/matthiaskrgr] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180516 14:07:52-!- mkdroid [~null@unaffiliated/matthiaskrgr] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180516 14:08:41-!- mkdroid [~null@unaffiliated/matthiaskrgr] has quit [Client Quit] 20180516 14:10:57-!- mkdr0id [~null@unaffiliated/matthiaskrgr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20180516 14:22:57<+discordbot> odd 20180516 14:22:59<+discordbot> 🤔 20180516 14:23:00<+discordbot> not sure 20180516 14:34:13<+discordbot> Took me 1 hour for me to find out it's caused by "force_team_locking" 20180516 14:35:15<+discordbot> team_lock=yes? 20180516 14:35:50<+discordbot> sorry. It's "force_lock_settings=yes" in [multiplayer] 20180516 14:35:56<+discordbot> ah 20180516 14:49:15<+discordbot> what's it called when you revert a revert? :thonk: 20180516 14:53:36<+discordbot> probably "restore", as in: restore changes 20180516 15:05:20< irker002> wesnoth/wesnoth:master Wedge009 e161d59536 Revert "Revert "'moreso' isn't a word in AppVeyor: All builds passed 20180516 15:14:56-!- vn971 [~vasya@94.158.103.15] has left #wesnoth-dev ["Leaving."] 20180516 15:16:38-!- ToBeCloud [uid51591@wikimedia/ToBeFree] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 20180516 15:54:19-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180516 16:27:41-!- gfg [~androirc@ersc138.goemobile.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180516 16:50:43-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has quit [Quit: So long and thanks for all the fish.] 20180516 16:52:38-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180516 16:54:55-!- boucman [~rosen@221.86.207.77.rev.sfr.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180516 16:54:59-!- boucman [~rosen@221.86.207.77.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Changing host] 20180516 16:54:59-!- boucman [~rosen@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180516 17:01:58-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180516 17:08:23-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180516 17:34:42-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180516 17:34:48-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180516 17:42:43-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180516 17:57:53-!- gfg [~androirc@ersc138.goemobile.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20180516 17:57:55-!- gfgt [~androirc@ersc138.goemobile.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180516 18:03:35-!- gfgt [~androirc@ersc138.goemobile.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20180516 18:23:57-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180516 18:24:03-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180516 18:24:50-!- irker002 [~irker@uruz.ai0867.net] has quit [Quit: transmission timeout] 20180516 18:27:32-!- ToBeCloud [uid51591@wikimedia/ToBeFree] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180516 18:48:31-!- gfgt [~androirc@134.76.63.8] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180516 19:12:24-!- DeFender1031 [~DeFender1@89-138-79-9.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180516 19:12:42-!- DeFender1031 [~DeFender1@89-138-79-9.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180516 19:17:23<+discordbot> surely wesnoth doesn't need >2GB of memory just because there are a lot of (very similar) units on the map? This seems like an area that is ripe for optimization. https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=12139&p=628282#p628282 20180516 19:50:28<+discordbot> Ask the person if they're playing The Lands Unknown. 20180516 20:46:22-!- ToBeCloud [uid51591@wikimedia/ToBeFree] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 20180516 20:58:30-!- gfgtdf [~gfgtdf@134.76.63.8] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180516 21:39:44<+discordbot> Still, if @loonycyborg can get the windows build 64 bit that would be great 20180516 21:50:27-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180516 21:50:33-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180516 21:50:46<+discordbot> memory swapping is an expensive process in regard to its overall impact on the system performance since moving data to and from the disk has considerable overhead. 20180516 21:54:10<+discordbot> Memory swapping isn't really relevant in this case. 20180516 21:54:32<+discordbot> You get past the va limit of 2 GB, you can't allocate more memory at all. 20180516 21:57:07<+discordbot> Wesnoth is not the most important app in the world. If the user has 4G/8G/whatever memory and browses Internet while playing, this will seriously hurt overall system performance. Wesnoth used to run on Nokia N800, IIRC. Taking 2G (for no good reason?) looks like something that needs to be fixed. 20180516 21:57:34<+discordbot> I was serious when I suggested TLU as a potential culprit by the way. 20180516 21:58:18<+discordbot> Right. Probably that thread header should ask for a savegame or at least a mention of map played. 20180516 21:58:19<+discordbot> I've heard it pushes the terrain builder to its limits with extremely huge and complex scenery which will potentially have more than one copy stored in the image cache. 20180516 21:59:05<+discordbot> The author himself filed a bug because he hit the memory ceiling due to a cinematic sequence using large JPEG images. 20180516 21:59:18< zookeeper> and/or does FMV wi... yeah, stuff like that. 20180516 21:59:48< zookeeper> i'd think in the case of TLU and the like, animations are a more likely cause than terrain, considering the latter is likely to be static. 20180516 22:00:13<+discordbot> We can either consider this a design issue that we can't fix in 1.14 (it will become irrelevant in 1.16) or make more intrusive changes to the image cache code to impose a limit on its total allocation. 20180516 22:01:07<+discordbot> And still risk hitting the memory ceiling if something other than the image cache manages to take up too much memory, naturally. 20180516 22:01:28< zookeeper> is/was the image cache cleared every time you hit a loading screen? 20180516 22:01:36<+discordbot> I don't think so. 20180516 22:02:05<+discordbot> It is explicitly cleared when you use F5 on the title screen or the :refresh command in-game, though. 20180516 22:02:40< zookeeper> right. if not, then i'd also wonder whether it's possible to intelligently clear _some_ images that can be determined to be a one-off thing, like story screen images or such. 20180516 22:02:49< zookeeper> (and whether that would really help in a meaningful way... possibly not) 20180516 22:03:03<+discordbot> We could potentially blacklist JPEG images from entering the cache, yes. 20180516 22:03:37<+discordbot> Since they tend to only come up in story screens and the story screen code probably still builds all story pages in advance. 20180516 22:04:15<+discordbot> We could also just blacklist anything that's larger than a certain size (probably around 600x600 px). 20180516 22:05:22<+discordbot> (I'm not volunteering to do any of this, to be clear.) 20180516 22:30:25-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20180516 22:34:51-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180516 22:35:51-!- boucman [~rosen@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180516 22:36:20-!- louis94 [~~louis94@91.176.171.238] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180516 22:52:17<+discordbot> What is a... Nokia N800 20180516 22:53:03<+discordbot> That's kind of beside the point. 20180516 22:53:37<+discordbot> Not to mention that with the power of modern technology you can find the answer in under 15 seconds. 20180516 22:54:21<+discordbot> good god it looks so ugly 20180516 23:03:27-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180516 23:03:33-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180516 23:14:49< Ravana_> seems that https://wiki.wesnoth.org/LuaWML/Sides#helper.all_teams should be deprecated 20180516 23:20:32<+discordbot> "It has no relation to [team] tag." There isn't even a [team] tag at all.... 20180516 23:20:55<+discordbot> but yes 20180516 23:41:11-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180516 23:49:31<+discordbot> celmin around? 20180516 23:49:56< celticminstrel> ... 20180516 23:50:09< celticminstrel> I mean, I literally just showed up, how did you know? 20180516 23:50:25< celticminstrel> (Well, 5-10 minutes ago maybe, but still.) 20180516 23:50:44<+discordbot> I'm just that good 20180516 23:51:27<+discordbot> anyway, could you add deprecation notices for helper.all_teams as well as the macros missing notices, and bump ON_SIGHTED to at least level 2 20180516 23:51:58< celticminstrel> Maybe? 20180516 23:52:14<+discordbot> (on 1.14) 20180516 23:52:30<+discordbot> I'll drop anything you mark level 3 on master 20180516 23:52:42<+discordbot> also there's some level 3 deprecation still on master I'm not sure how to deal with 20180516 23:52:51<+discordbot> specifically the put_unit stuff 20180516 23:52:57< celticminstrel> But IIRC the macros I didn't already mark were missed because I wasn't sure what they should be replaced with. 20180516 23:53:08<+discordbot> nothing, I think 20180516 23:53:10< celticminstrel> What about put_unit? 20180516 23:53:16<+discordbot> arg order 20180516 23:53:30< celticminstrel> The non-deprecated order is unit first. 20180516 23:53:47< celticminstrel> And if there's no unit at all, change to erase_unit. 20180516 23:53:58<+discordbot> I mean the C++ side 20180516 23:54:03< celticminstrel> ??? 20180516 23:54:09<+discordbot> I see the deprecation notice, but not the handling of the deprecated order 20180516 23:54:27< celticminstrel> ??? 20180516 23:55:30<+discordbot> in game_lua_kernel.cp 20180516 23:55:52<+discordbot> lines 2089, 2103, 2110 20180516 23:55:55< celticminstrel> ... 20180516 23:56:46< celticminstrel> Okay? 20180516 23:56:51< celticminstrel> So what's the problem? 20180516 23:57:31< celticminstrel> Are you looking for line 2066 or something? 20180516 23:57:43<+discordbot> what do I remove if I want to remove support for the old order 20180516 23:57:59< celticminstrel> That if clause and maybe also the unit_arg variable if it's not assigned anywhere else. 20180516 23:58:17<+discordbot> only that? 20180516 23:58:49< celticminstrel> I guess the else clause containing a deprecation message, too. 20180516 23:58:59< celticminstrel> 2110 that is --- Log closed Thu May 17 00:00:25 2018