--- Log opened Wed May 30 00:00:14 2018 20180530 00:03:45-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20180530 00:05:52-!- fabi_ [~fabi@200116b82b9e32001ca1a53624215b9a.dip.versatel-1u1.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180530 00:06:17-!- fabi [~fabi@wesnoth/developer/fendrin] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20180530 00:09:15-!- irker880 [~irker@uruz.ai0867.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20180530 00:37:20-!- Kawa[m] [kawamatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-etitbkxjqjefdloa] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20180530 00:38:02-!- madmax28 [madmax28ma@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-upalhxaxxdlwiatd] has quit [Ping timeout: 269 seconds] 20180530 00:38:07-!- ChipmunkV[m] [chipmunkvm@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-njbzktoszawhovmp] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20180530 00:47:34-!- behalebabo [~behalebab@unaffiliated/behalebabo] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20180530 00:52:01-!- behalebabo [~behalebab@unaffiliated/behalebabo] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180530 01:03:14-!- ChipmunkV[m] [chipmunkvm@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-ggsksyrssbovcban] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180530 01:06:09-!- ToBeFree [uid51591@wikimedia/ToBeFree] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180530 01:15:51<+discordbot4> @Soliton factions, leaders, and recruits are all sorted. Factions, I can at least see the logic. But, for the love of god, now it's a problem that leaders are sorted too?? 20180530 01:32:07-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180530 01:33:03-!- Kawa[m] [kawamatrix@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-ijxtltmmphyuvptl] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180530 01:33:04-!- madmax28 [madmax28ma@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-cpfhbebgsnzaexow] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180530 01:35:45<+discordbot4> How can this Lua error happen? https://github.com/project-ethea/Invasion_from_the_Unknown/issues/56 20180530 01:37:44<+discordbot4> This is the line in question: lua wesnoth.set_music({ name = "silence.ogg", immediate = true, append = false }) 20180530 01:39:43< celticminstrel> wesnoth.set_music raises that error? 20180530 01:40:05<+discordbot4> Apparently. 20180530 01:40:13< celticminstrel> Hmm... not sure how that would happen... 20180530 01:40:30<+discordbot4> At that point in time either my add-on's music or a mainline track should be playing. 20180530 01:40:51<+discordbot4> The error makes it sound like there's no music playing somehow. What would happen if both my add-on's music and mainline's music were missing? 20180530 01:42:25<+discordbot4> Yep, that's it. I just reproduce it. 20180530 01:42:38-!- irker110 [~irker@uruz.ai0867.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180530 01:42:38< irker110> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:1.14 43252e8191e0 / src/generators/default_map_generator_job.cpp: add mapgen debug info. https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/43252e8191e09dcec3243f18732424a1799a9ac4 20180530 01:42:52< celticminstrel> ......... 20180530 01:43:15< celticminstrel> ...well okay, at least it's not at a level where the average person will see it. 20180530 01:43:16-!- gfgtdf_ [~gfgtdf@134.76.63.8] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20180530 01:43:21<+discordbot4> I advised against the dots and whats before. 20180530 01:43:32<+discordbot4> It needs to be fixed either way though. 20180530 01:43:49< celticminstrel> Sorry, I was reacting to gfgtdf's commit. 20180530 01:43:57<+discordbot4> So the simplest way to reproduce is to rename the core music dir, go into any mainline scenario (or the test scenario) and use :lua wesnoth.wml_actions.music { name="silence.ogg", immediate=true, append=false } 20180530 01:44:13-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180530 01:44:19<+discordbot4> 20180529 21:42:59 error scripting/lua: In function lua_kernel::run(): Lua Error: When executing, Lua runtime error: lua/wml-tags.lua:281: Error: Attempted to access an invalid music track. 20180530 01:45:03< celticminstrel> Ohhh, set_music redirects to the WML action, okay. 20180530 01:45:15< celticminstrel> I explicitly looked that up and somehow still missed it. 20180530 01:45:35< celticminstrel> So immediate=true append=false... 20180530 01:46:03< celticminstrel> So it doesn't occur if you have immediate=false? 20180530 01:46:15<+discordbot4> Odds are it will occur either way. 20180530 01:46:22< celticminstrel> Mind trying? 20180530 01:46:26<+discordbot4> Or not. Actually I remembered it's a conditional path. 20180530 01:46:40<+discordbot4> I need to file a bug report anyway. 20180530 01:47:21< celticminstrel> Hypothesized fix: Change this line to "if cfg.immediate and wesnoth.music_list.current then" 20180530 01:47:21< celticminstrel> https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/blob/master/data/lua/wml-tags.lua#L280 20180530 01:47:49< celticminstrel> (Assuming it doesn't occur when both append and immediate are false.) 20180530 01:48:07< celticminstrel> (But that line looks reasonably suspicious in any case.) 20180530 01:49:47<+discordbot4> https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/issues/3194 20180530 01:53:06<+discordbot4> celticminstrel: The fix makes no difference. 20180530 01:53:14< celticminstrel> Aw. 20180530 01:53:32< celticminstrel> Well, the [n] lines could also be similarly questionable though... 20180530 01:53:45<+discordbot4> Those aren't causing it. 20180530 01:54:04<+discordbot4> The Lua stack trace clearly points to wesnoth.music_list.current.once = true being the culprit. 20180530 01:54:13< celticminstrel> It could also be that "current" isn't convertible to false. 20180530 01:54:19<+discordbot4> But apparently wesnoth.music_list.current evaluates as true either way yes. 20180530 01:54:26< celticminstrel> IIRC there's current_i 20180530 01:54:43< celticminstrel> I don't know what value it would hold on an empty playlist, but you could check in the Lua console. 20180530 01:56:22<+discordbot4> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/259976436490829825/451202178594635787/unknown.png 20180530 01:56:36< celticminstrel> So it's nil huh. 20180530 01:56:37<+discordbot4> It's nil. 20180530 01:57:02< celticminstrel> So maybe "if cfg.immediate and wesnoth.music_list.current_i then"? 20180530 01:57:19< celticminstrel> Provided current_i is actually always an integer when there is a playlist. 20180530 01:57:34<+discordbot4> That's something you or somebody else should know, not me. :p 20180530 01:57:47< celticminstrel> I don't know any reason why it wouldn't be. 20180530 01:58:29<+discordbot4> That works. 20180530 01:59:45<+discordbot4> However 20180530 02:00:04<+discordbot4> Lines 288 and 291 can still be hit and cause a Lua error if you fulfill their requirements. 20180530 02:00:08< irker110> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master cc2cc29376fa / src/ (19 files in 14 dirs): Deployed std::make_unique and std::make_shared in more places https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/cc2cc29376fa19aa21b705a9754496d7f6d30162 20180530 02:00:11< irker110> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master 31c4d0952883 / src/gui/core/ (canvas.cpp event/distributor.cpp notifier.hpp timer.cpp): GUI2: praise auto https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/31c4d09528836a96d66ff4157d46e05cb11dad97 20180530 02:00:14< irker110> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master 569d86277a0e / src/gui/ (7 files in 2 dirs): GUI2/Dispatcher: added a connect_signal convenience wrapper for draw callbacks https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/569d86277a0ee90385e7303dea80fd2d0da367d5 20180530 02:00:19< celticminstrel> I suspected that might be the case... 20180530 02:00:24<+discordbot4> For line 288 that means setting shuffle=false in the parameters (since the default is true). 20180530 02:01:09<+discordbot4> (Or rather the default is nil which is handled as if it were true.) 20180530 02:01:19< celticminstrel> I guess adding "if n == 0 then return end" would solve this? 20180530 02:01:23<+discordbot4> And I have no idea what the title attribute is but evidently if you also set it you will hit a Lua error. 20180530 02:01:43< celticminstrel> Title is unused in-game ATM, but I think it's used in the scenario editor. 20180530 02:02:12<+discordbot4> Yeah I reckon basically you need to quit if wesnoth.music_list.add turns out to not have made the list become non-empty. 20180530 02:02:29<+discordbot4> However I'm curious what happens if the list wasn't empty int he first place and that function fails. 20180530 02:02:42< celticminstrel> That's ... a very good point. 20180530 02:02:49<+discordbot4> It's just going to replace the shuffle and title attributes of the current last track. 20180530 02:02:50<+discordbot4> Title is used in the editor's music playlist menu 20180530 02:03:11<+discordbot4> I guess for shuffle that might make sense? Let me see what the semantics of it are intended to be... 20180530 02:03:11< celticminstrel> Yeah exactly. So it's technically worthless here, but that might change in the future. 20180530 02:03:20< celticminstrel> Title, I mean. 20180530 02:03:31<+discordbot4> it needs to be set manually since we can't get it from the track's metatdata 20180530 02:03:42< celticminstrel> Right but it'll never be used for a scenario track. 20180530 02:03:44<+discordbot4> The wiki says about shuffle: "The last [music] tag to include this attribute dictates the playlist's configuration." 20180530 02:03:48< celticminstrel> Unless an addon asks for it. 20180530 02:04:05<+discordbot4> So I guess it should be fine for the shuffle attribute to change even if a new track couldn't be added? 20180530 02:04:10< celticminstrel> Maybe... 20180530 02:04:15<+discordbot4> there's really no place it should be used 20180530 02:04:23< celticminstrel> What Vultraz? 20180530 02:04:35<+discordbot4> title should be excluded from the clobbering though. 20180530 02:04:37<+discordbot4> the title. besides the editor 20180530 02:04:48< celticminstrel> I don't think I necessarily agree. 20180530 02:04:59< celticminstrel> The ability to view the title of the currently-playing track would be cool. 20180530 02:05:05< celticminstrel> It could be done as an addon, actually. 20180530 02:05:06<+discordbot4> we itunes now 20180530 02:05:15<+discordbot4> Didn't Pentarctagon write a music player add-on already? 20180530 02:05:20<+discordbot4> yes 20180530 02:05:23< celticminstrel> No idea. 20180530 02:05:25< celticminstrel> What is this? 20180530 02:05:30<+discordbot4> it's been a thing for years 20180530 02:06:16<+discordbot4> OH 20180530 02:06:18<+discordbot4> reminds me 20180530 02:06:23<+discordbot4> I wanted to ask shadowm 20180530 02:06:32<+discordbot4> where I can get the ats/iftu music pack 20180530 02:06:36<+discordbot4> because i dont' see a repo for it 20180530 02:06:51<+discordbot4> last i checked 20180530 02:07:09< celticminstrel> BTW, does setting a single track's shuffle attribute after the fact actually cause the playlist to shuffle? 20180530 02:07:14< celticminstrel> Or unsetting it cause it not to? 20180530 02:07:55<+discordbot4> @Vultraz The add-ons server, per the forum post. 20180530 02:08:05<+discordbot4> The repository is actually wesnoth-umc-dev right now. 20180530 02:08:19< celticminstrel> Yeah I have a feeling non-shuffled playlists don't actually work right now...? 20180530 02:08:22<+discordbot4> :thonk: 20180530 02:08:28<+discordbot4> celticminstrel: I have no idea. 20180530 02:08:45<+discordbot4> Also I really need to tend to my own bug queue right now :< I'm 2 days behind. 20180530 02:09:02< celticminstrel> Someone should really test a non-shuffled playlist. 20180530 02:09:11< celticminstrel> Maybe I'll do it later if no-one else does. 20180530 02:09:27<+discordbot4> shadowm: "I need testers!" konrad02: "hold my beer" 20180530 02:25:30<+discordbot4> oops 20180530 02:25:43<+discordbot4> i just dropped a stash i didn't mean to drop 20180530 02:25:43<+discordbot4> oh well 20180530 02:26:23< celticminstrel> If it wasn't a stash, getting it back would be easy... but stashes probably don't go into the reflog at all... 20180530 02:26:54<+discordbot4> i hope it wasn't that stash where i dumped a few hours work on a refactor of the handling of button variations 20180530 02:27:20< celticminstrel> I feel like there's probably a way to get back a dropped stash but I wouldn't know what it is. 20180530 02:28:41< irker110> wesnoth/wesnoth:1.14 gfgtdf d36c6a928b add mapgen debug info. AppVeyor: All builds passed 20180530 02:35:17-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy] 20180530 02:43:19-!- fabi [~fabi@200116b82beff1001ca1a53624215b9a.dip.versatel-1u1.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180530 02:43:19-!- fabi [~fabi@200116b82beff1001ca1a53624215b9a.dip.versatel-1u1.de] has quit [Changing host] 20180530 02:43:19-!- fabi [~fabi@wesnoth/developer/fendrin] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180530 02:43:21-!- fabi_ [~fabi@200116b82b9e32001ca1a53624215b9a.dip.versatel-1u1.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20180530 02:46:13-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-54-80-51-74.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180530 02:46:14< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#18421 (master - 569d862 : Charles Dang): The build was broken. 20180530 02:46:14< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/385482492 20180530 02:46:14-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-54-80-51-74.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has left #wesnoth-dev [] 20180530 02:47:25< celticminstrel> :o 20180530 02:49:31<+discordbot4> oh hell 20180530 03:00:41< irker110> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master a08af0c1daf0 / src/filesystem.cpp: Fixup cc2cc29 https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/a08af0c1daf0cd679fdf73a705bd07fd1f7c1fc1 20180530 03:10:03<+discordbot4> celticminstrel: Should I assign #3194 to you? 20180530 03:10:39< celticminstrel> The music one? 20180530 03:10:58<+discordbot4> Yes. 20180530 03:11:02< celticminstrel> Sure. 20180530 03:12:09<+discordbot4> Incidentally, have you decided yet how to go about patching #2716? (make vgettext() less prone to being misused) https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/issues/2716 20180530 03:12:35<+discordbot4> It really should go into 1.14 too since people will keep dumping features into 1.14. 20180530 03:12:50<+discordbot4> (Making them potential victims of the same bug again.) 20180530 03:12:56< celticminstrel> I hadn't thought about that recently. 20180530 03:15:05-!- ToBeFree [uid51591@wikimedia/ToBeFree] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 20180530 03:23:30-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has quit [Quit: And lo! The computer falls into a deep sleep, to awake again some other day!] 20180530 03:43:08<+discordbot4> would the overloads not taking a domain be removed? 20180530 03:50:13<+discordbot4> ah, you discuss that too 20180530 03:52:49< irker110> wesnoth/wesnoth:master Nils Kneuper 29c9f1d298 updated French translation AppVeyor: All builds passed 20180530 03:57:35-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-184-73-117-198.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180530 03:57:36< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#18422 (master - a08af0c : Charles Dang): The build has errored. 20180530 03:57:36< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/385496278 20180530 03:57:36-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-184-73-117-198.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has left #wesnoth-dev [] 20180530 04:16:08< irker110> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:master aad64d72cf27 / src/formula/ (string_utils.cpp string_utils.hpp): Made vgettext/vngetext internals harder to use accidentally (resolves #2716) https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/aad64d72cf27123a45655fd23eacebec37fe4ab6 20180530 04:23:50< irker110> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth:1.14 78ab1faeaacf / src/formula/ (string_utils.cpp string_utils.hpp): Made vgettext/vngetext internals harder to use accidentally (resolves #2716) https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/78ab1faeaacfc4a21670878443c009975ad1e834 20180530 04:30:00-!- Appleman1234 [~quassel@124x38x163x22.ap124.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20180530 04:38:19-!- Appleman1234 [~quassel@124x38x163x22.ap124.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180530 04:48:24-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-184-73-117-198.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180530 04:48:25< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#18423 (master - aad64d7 : Charles Dang): The build passed. 20180530 04:48:25< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/385511958 20180530 04:48:25-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-184-73-117-198.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has left #wesnoth-dev [] 20180530 04:58:52-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180530 05:03:31-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180530 05:15:17<+discordbot4> I don't currently use the title attribute, but it would be useful actually, now that I think about it. So unless it's going to be removed, I'd probably start using it in the somewhat near future. 20180530 05:15:36<+discordbot4> it's not 20180530 05:15:45-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180530 05:15:54<+discordbot4> great 20180530 05:41:00< irker110> wesnoth/wesnoth:1.14 Nils Kneuper 1977a9ad79 updated French translation AppVeyor: All builds passed 20180530 06:13:04-!- gallaecio [~quassel@220.red-79-150-211.dynamicip.rima-tde.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180530 06:22:01-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180530 06:23:30< Soliton> Vultraz: if you look at the WML, leaders are sorted with the canonical leader first and leaders from the same base unit or race are grouped together. same with recruits. not sure what logic you see in factions, i'd say for mainline alphabetic faction sorting is the least problematic. not that i see the advantage in forcing sorting there either. 20180530 06:27:05-!- Appleman1234 [~quassel@124x38x163x22.ap124.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20180530 06:29:21<+discordbot4> I have no intention of changing leader and recruit sorting back 20180530 06:29:28<+discordbot4> I might add control of faction sorting 20180530 06:30:05< Soliton> what is the rationale for alphabetic sorting? 20180530 06:33:00<+discordbot4> For recruits, because the old dialog stuck them in a single comma-separated line of text. I changed that to a bulleted list, and alphabetical sorting looked better. 20180530 06:33:19<+discordbot4> And for factions and leaders, I just decided it made more visual sense 20180530 06:33:31<+discordbot4> it's easy to scan a list for an entry if it's sorted alphabetically 20180530 06:33:52<+discordbot4> "I want undead.... let's look near the bottom" 20180530 06:34:02< Soliton> because the usual case is that people know the name of the unit they're looking for? 20180530 06:34:37< Soliton> is this optimized for ageless or something with tons of factions/units? 20180530 06:34:44<+discordbot4> No 20180530 06:34:49<+discordbot4> I don't have ageless installed 20180530 06:35:45<+discordbot4> but last I checked, it grouped factions together by era because they have an era prefix 20180530 06:35:55< Soliton> ok, not making any sense to me then. so where there complaints that people couldn't find what they're looking for in those dialogs? 20180530 06:36:28<+discordbot4> which means the sorting yields a good result with ageless 20180530 06:36:29< zookeeper> what the heck does "the old dialog stuck them in a single comma-separated line of text" mean when it doesn't mean... well, that? 20180530 06:36:35< Soliton> ah so alphabetc sorting works by chance if names have a suitable prefix. 20180530 06:37:15<+discordbot4> it means "Elvish Fighter, Elvish Archer, Shaman, Revenant, etc etc" 20180530 06:37:19<+discordbot4> in one line 20180530 06:37:33<+discordbot4> very hard to parse 20180530 06:37:41< Soliton> it's an argument to ignore since it has nothing to do with the sorting. 20180530 06:38:03<+discordbot4> once I made it a bulleted list the random order for the recruits looked bad 20180530 06:38:07<+discordbot4> just visually cluttered 20180530 06:38:23<+discordbot4> likewise for the factions and leaders. 20180530 06:38:31<+discordbot4> random order looks cluttered 20180530 06:38:49< Soliton> it's visually clutter if units with similar images are grouped together? 20180530 06:39:19<+discordbot4> probably not 20180530 06:39:36< zookeeper> oh by "recruits" you mean the recruits list in the faction menu, which is something that _only_ exists in the new dialog(s)..? 20180530 06:39:38< Soliton> i guess you mean the recruit list in the create screen that is hard to read either way. 20180530 06:40:06<+discordbot4> and no, no one reported problems with the old FLG dialog because that's not the sort of things people would complain about 20180530 06:40:17< Soliton> there's no images so unless you know all the units by heart that list is just unreadable IMO. 20180530 06:40:59<+discordbot4> having the factions, leaders, and recruits sorted alphabetically just LOOKS BETTER 20180530 06:41:04<+discordbot4> why do I need to justify it beyond that 20180530 06:41:10< zookeeper> because you're wrong, duh 20180530 06:41:17< Soliton> so you have no rationale, ok. 20180530 06:41:31<+discordbot4> I JUST GAVE YOU ONE 20180530 06:41:42 * Soliton nods. 20180530 06:41:45<+discordbot4> what do you want, a goddamn research paper? 20180530 06:42:30< zookeeper> a rationale that couldn't just as well be used to argue for exactly the opposite position, or pretty much anything at all, probably? 20180530 06:43:09<+discordbot4> so you want completely random order for everything 20180530 06:44:30< Soliton> s/random/WML defined/ 20180530 06:45:17<+discordbot4> it appears random 20180530 06:45:53< zookeeper> you really don't see any kind of subtle logic in the way 1.12 sorts factions/leaders/recruits? 20180530 06:46:17<+discordbot4> I haven't looked at 1.12 in years and from what I remember, there was no sorting applied code-side 20180530 06:46:25< zookeeper> WML defined 20180530 06:46:52<+discordbot4> Because a player is supposed to come in, see a random jumble of names, and assume it has some meaning 20180530 06:50:03<+discordbot4> @Vultraz the leader and recruit sorting in 1.12 was done by unit type 20180530 06:50:13<+discordbot4> e.g. grouped into fighters, archers, magi, etc. 20180530 06:50:36<+discordbot4> at least that's some order 20180530 06:50:39<+discordbot4> at least in default 20180530 06:50:45< Soliton> if you have specific complaints about the WML defined order you're welcome to voice those. 20180530 06:51:01<+discordbot4> the first unit in the leader list is a leader or suggested leader unit 20180530 06:51:31< zookeeper> faction sorting happens to strongly correlate with how easy the faction is to play and how common it is in the story/campaigns; humans, elves, orcs, undead, then knalgans and last drakes. as a newbie player i'd argue you're likely to assume the first factions are somehow more suited, especially considering the one with a weird name (knalgans) and the one with exotic dragon thingies are at 20180530 06:51:31< zookeeper> the very bottom (preceded by undead). 20180530 06:52:16<+discordbot4> the recruit list was alphabetical iirc 20180530 06:53:32<+discordbot4> I can't believe you guys spend so much time discussing this. 10 people say one thing, one say something else, it's quite obvious, right? 20180530 06:54:04< zookeeper> for leaders, the sorting logic is pretty much the same as for recruits, but with the "standard" leader (lieutenant, dark sorcerer, etc) as the first one. 20180530 06:54:20<+discordbot4> I don't remember there being any sorting logic for recruits 20180530 06:54:59<+discordbot4> reason being that I always had to scroll all the way to the bottom of the list to recruit a silly spearman whenever playing loyalists >_> 20180530 06:55:17<+discordbot4> i'm not talking about the actual recruit dialog 20180530 06:55:41<+discordbot4> but that is sorted too, yes 20180530 06:55:42< zookeeper> @Yumi, yeah true, recruits in 1.12 are alphabetically sorted too it seems. it just happens to result in a pretty sensible sorting most of the time. 20180530 06:56:09<+discordbot4> i was referring to the list of faction recruits in the flg dialog 20180530 06:56:14<+discordbot4> flg? 20180530 06:56:22<+discordbot4> faction leader gender 20180530 06:56:26<+discordbot4> faction select 20180530 06:56:51<+discordbot4> flg is the internal nomenclature 20180530 06:56:57<+discordbot4> okay 20180530 06:59:33<+discordbot4> can we just drop this 20180530 07:00:05<+discordbot4> of all the changes I made to the UI for 1.14, this is the one you're all up in arms about... 20180530 07:00:08<+discordbot4> Uh, if this topic should be dropped, the one who should give in is the one who disagrees with everyone else. 20180530 07:03:07<+discordbot4> It'd be nice if you could actually listen to your users' feedback instead of actively trying to alienate them by silencing every dissenting opinion. 20180530 07:05:04<+discordbot4> I said I might add faction ranking, and then along comes soliton saying leaders need to be arbitrarily sorted too 20180530 07:05:09<+discordbot4> and implying the same for the recruit list 20180530 07:05:20<+discordbot4> which would also mean removing the recruit dialog sorting too 20180530 07:08:37-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy] 20180530 07:09:04-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180530 07:09:11< Soliton> it'd make sense IMO but that's less important. i would think about whether it is useful to have the prominent text list of all recruits in the flg dialog. like who reads that and gets something out of it? there should be some way to see all recruits if you really want to but the way it is i don't think it's that useful. 20180530 07:09:25-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Client Quit] 20180530 07:10:01-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180530 07:10:13-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Client Quit] 20180530 07:10:18<+discordbot4> it was there before 20180530 07:10:24< Soliton> the sorting isn't even an issue there IMO. it's just text so there i actually agree that it might be visually nicer. 20180530 07:10:27<+discordbot4> what changed is the host didn't used to get that dialog 20180530 07:10:47-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180530 07:11:00-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Client Quit] 20180530 07:11:32-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180530 07:11:47-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Client Quit] 20180530 07:12:27< Soliton> as you said before it was a comma separated list. 20180530 07:14:05<+discordbot4> which was useless 20180530 07:15:13< Soliton> yes, which as i tried to say above might actually be good because no one can do much with it anyway. it's just there for reference if you really need to check. 20180530 07:16:03<+discordbot4> so I made the reference easier to check 20180530 07:16:08<+discordbot4> is THAT a problem too? 20180530 07:16:52< Soliton> if it means the list is now more prominent then it needs to be, maybe. 20180530 07:17:10<+discordbot4> .......... 20180530 07:17:52< Soliton> you could try taking it as a suggestion not as a personal insult like you seem to. 20180530 07:19:45<+discordbot4> Because first, it's a problem that I made things more complicated for authors because they lose their sorting. Then it's a problem that I made things easier for players by making a list easier to read. 20180530 07:19:46<+discordbot4> 😐 20180530 07:21:09<+discordbot4> well, it's also not very nice of you to call someone else's list "arbitrarily sorted" when there is some logic behind it 20180530 07:21:25<+discordbot4> It LOOKS random 20180530 07:21:42<+discordbot4> I'm not arguing for or against you 20180530 07:22:05<+discordbot4> however, other people do have their reasoning too 20180530 07:23:45<+discordbot4> As a matter of fact, I had the recruit list sorting discussion before since it was me who originally implemented that. 20180530 07:24:27< Soliton> the pure text list might look random. the main point is not about that list. 20180530 07:24:51<+discordbot4> the main point is the faction list 20180530 07:24:57<+discordbot4> I eventually decided that implementing sorting options in the UI and default to alphabetic sorting unless the side config specified otherwise would be a good solution but I think I comletely forgot about it at some point. 20180530 07:49:02< Soliton> the main point IMO is to give control about the order to the WML author. the only one that can make sensible decisions about it as i see it. after all they could already sort things alphabetically if they wanted to. 20180530 07:57:13<+discordbot4> Translations make things a bit difficult in that regard since the unit type names the author handles are not necessarily the ones the player sees. 20180530 07:58:10< Soliton> i was waiting for translations to come up. the only part where the forced sorting actually makes a difference. 20180530 08:05:08<+discordbot4> Which reminds me that I have some sorting in various areas not using icompare, which they should be using 20180530 08:06:00< zookeeper> and arguably it's not good for core-gameplay-related UI elements to change order based on language used. 20180530 08:07:13< zookeeper> maybe depends on how often anyone really switches between two languages, or whether practically everyone just sticks with the same one always. 20180530 08:08:14< Soliton> for mp certainly it's useful if everyone sees similar UI to make communication at least somewhat easier. 20180530 08:10:48<+discordbot4> The Shadow Mage in the campaign Liberty constantly switching between old and new image. 20180530 08:14:24< zookeeper> @Lupin, probably you have an add-on that uses the old images and improperly bleeds them into other campaigns 20180530 08:15:05< zookeeper> or maybe you didn't exit the game between playing that add-on and then playing liberty... although i'm not sure if that bug still exists or not 20180530 08:15:20<+discordbot4> Ageless Era? Should it be active in SP campaign? 20180530 08:15:35< zookeeper> Ravana_, ^ 20180530 08:15:42<+discordbot4> zookeeper: It probably shouldn't since we just had to fix a thread race caused by the load sequence purging the cache. 20180530 08:16:26<+discordbot4> (The worker thread would purge the image cache while the loading screen tried to read from it.) 20180530 08:35:25<+discordbot4> celticminstrel: [kill] animate=yes also scrolls to units through fog (and probably shroud as well). 20180530 08:39:00< irker110> wesnoth/wesnoth:1.14 gfgtdf 43252e8191 add mapgen debug info. AppVeyor: All builds passed 20180530 08:40:32<+discordbot4> Has anyone else been sporadically experiencing massive delays when connecting to GitHub's Git repositories and web as of the last 5 days, by the way? 20180530 08:50:45<+discordbot4> Hey guys, I'm not popping in for a discussion (I have to leave, it's late), but I was asked to interject here... The objections that have been raised about that unit sort order stuff are reasonable enough (I really couldn't care either way, but a curated list with meaningful order has some sound arguments in favor of it). However, the way that you guys have raised them has really managed to make Vult feel pretty miserable. He's 20180530 08:50:46<+discordbot4> been doing a huge amount of heavy-lifting on the UI stuff, picking up a number of in-progress things that have been in limbo for a long time, and deserves to have a bit of 'benefit of the doubt' about shot-calling on that. Even if you've got a reasonable complaint, it's well worth considering that even without some dispute breaking out, making someone feel bad really takes the steam out of their productivity. As a project we should 20180530 08:50:46<+discordbot4> probably avoid that when "people willing to do heavy lifting" are in short supply. And yeah - I certainly don't have a spotless reputation myself, but I'm trying to do a lot better about that sort of thing, and I think we'd all benefit from that, collectively. 20180530 09:00:05<+discordbot4> I can't say I can sympathize with the sentiment in general, but when someone basically tells the people providing feedback (who are users, not developers) that their opinion will not be considered it's hard to not feel more than a bit annoyed. 20180530 09:00:13<+discordbot4> *I can't say I can't 20180530 09:00:43<+discordbot4> And that's putting it in more palatable terms. 20180530 09:01:44<+discordbot4> Meaning that there are other terms employed about the users' response to the situation that aren't as nice. 20180530 09:02:17< Soliton> is there a way to not make Vultraz feel bad about this though? i can understand identifying with your work and taking criticism personally but then not sure if there is anything other people can do to bring up issues tactfully. and unfortunately expecting diplomatic behaviour from random people from the internet complaining on the forum or wherever is just going to end badly. 20180530 09:02:31<+discordbot4> In general, the way to ask something to be changed would be something like "hey, could you revert this change?". If the author refuses to revert, then it's time to start the argument about if the change is necessary. 20180530 09:03:36<+discordbot4> Vultraz's complaints started because the new behavior was immediately reported as a bug, and in general, started with a too accusatory tone. 20180530 09:03:37< Soliton> (not saying i'm not at fault or couldn't do things better. i'm happy to hear what i could have done better in bringing the issue up.) 20180530 09:03:44<+discordbot4> In my experience people take it really badly when you ask them to revert a change, no matter what your particular choice of words is. 20180530 09:04:15<+discordbot4> Just the word "revert" itself is basically taken as an insult by some. 20180530 09:05:02<+discordbot4> Well, I reverted my unit HP validation change just this week without complaining. 20180530 09:06:02< Soliton> the issue is divorcing your "ego" or whatever from your work, which is difficult to do. especially in things that are based on opinion more than technical facts or so. 20180530 09:07:53<+discordbot4> TBH, I don't understand at all why "the lists must be sorted" is so important for Vultraz. 20180530 09:08:18<+discordbot4> Adding an option to disable sorting (with sorting still enabled by default) wouldn't be that hard. 20180530 09:09:33< Soliton> case in point of the HP validation: it's fairly obvious that it had some notably unintended side effects which just clearly, technically break stuff. so it's easier to say "oops" let's revert this than when it may feel like people accuse you of being stupid or whatever for changing the order some UI elements are displayed in. 20180530 09:10:16<+discordbot4> It wasn't that. It was that I had changed the API (which I didn't know at the time I committed it). 20180530 09:10:28< Soliton> (that's what i seems like to me anyway and what i can imagine feeling as well.) 20180530 09:10:36< Soliton> s/i/it/ 20180530 09:11:11< Soliton> jyrkive: the point is still that it's much more a technical matter than opinion based. 20180530 09:13:18< Soliton> to be clear i'm not blaming Vultraz for feeling this way but it's still difficult for others to "fix" this. except by not bringing issues up at all which is not good either. 20180530 09:17:42< irker110> wesnoth: Iris Morelle wesmere:master d9d40b08eba7 / wesmere/sass/forums.scss: sass/forums: Unfloat release announcement buttons on tiny viewports https://github.com/wesnoth/wesmere/commit/d9d40b08eba7a11940ba80c3d023b1c78f5f864c 20180530 09:20:48< Soliton> also i'm happy to accept the list of recruits in the flg dialog without further discussion. i said as much initially that sorting that one alphabetically makes sense. it 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irker203> wesnoth: pentarctagon wesnoth:opengl c1018c812a29 / SConstruct: Adds OpenGL/GLEW checks to scons. https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/c1018c812a29c4c295e033976cbde7420173c5a7 20180530 15:56:58< irker203> wesnoth: Sofartin wesnoth:opengl c93290db4ec9 / projectfiles/Xcode/Wesnoth.xcodeproj/project.pbxproj: Fixed Xcode Project for OpenGL https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/c93290db4ec930a6a2fadf52b26b17d5949c997b 20180530 15:57:00< irker203> wesnoth: Jyrki Vesterinen wesnoth:opengl 0e47e00b7b51 / / (6 files in 3 dirs): Add a texture class https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/0e47e00b7b517588208881c3ed86a286e81a8385 20180530 15:57:02< irker203> wesnoth: Jyrki Vesterinen wesnoth:opengl a42a63ac0dde / / (7 files in 3 dirs): Add sprite, draw_op and vertex classes https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/a42a63ac0ddecf437e45a6ddf0501f20c53df631 20180530 15:57:04< irker203> wesnoth: Sofartin wesnoth:opengl 82f60e7711ab / projectfiles/Xcode/Wesnoth.xcodeproj/project.pbxproj: Fix xcode project after aff0465441c62f6932bf19ba42fbedeffc5fbf86 https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/82f60e7711ab9d2bf652da723703e2503ac6afd7 20180530 15:57:06< irker203> wesnoth: Jyrki Vesterinen wesnoth:opengl 8066bf1fc504 / / (5 files in 3 dirs): Add a shader class https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/8066bf1fc504cfa9ed995a725b619f789ec91c84 20180530 15:57:08< irker203> wesnoth: Martin Hrubý (hrubymar10) wesnoth:opengl a725b46dc20f / projectfiles/Xcode/Wesnoth.xcodeproj/project.pbxproj: Fix Xcode project after 3e96a3aa2c357c539c255dbe8b431f6857f8170a https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/a725b46dc20faf62c1054413119cdf01802a405f 20180530 15:57:10<+discordbot4> OpenGL branch rebased. 20180530 16:05:16<+discordbot4> I thought the opengl branch was called master 20180530 16:05:33<+discordbot4> No, the master branch uses SDL for rendering. 20180530 16:07:32<+discordbot4> what was the thing which was changed in master? 20180530 16:08:05<+discordbot4> Significant refactoring of the rendering pipeline, as well as incomplete rewrite of the side bar and top bar. 20180530 16:14:03-!- gfgtdf [~gfgtdf@134.76.63.8] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20180530 16:18:04-!- gallaecio [~quassel@188.79.96.255] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180530 16:30:53-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180530 16:30:59-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180530 16:34:50-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-54-161-181-102.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180530 16:34:51< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#18427 (opengl - a725b46 : Martin Hrubý (hrubymar10)): The build is still failing. 20180530 16:34:51< travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/385762268 20180530 16:34:51-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-54-161-181-102.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has left #wesnoth-dev [] 20180530 16:35:09<+discordbot4> I think the confusion arises from master requiring glew? 20180530 16:35:32<+discordbot4> As well as libGL itself. 20180530 16:46:50-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180530 16:50:49< irker203> wesnoth/wesnoth:1.14 gfgtdf ce66df1285 add mapgen debug info. AppVeyor: All builds passed 20180530 17:04:19<+discordbot4> 🤔 20180530 17:06:54-!- gfgtdf [~gfgtdf@134.76.63.8] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180530 17:16:30-!- pydsigner [~pydsigner@unaffiliated/pydsigner] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20180530 17:24:40-!- pydsigner [~pydsigner@unaffiliated/pydsigner] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180530 17:29:20-!- gallaecio [~quassel@188.79.96.255] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20180530 17:29:42-!- gallaecio [~quassel@188.79.96.255] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180530 17:34:42-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180530 17:34:54-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180530 17:39:06-!- boucman [~rosen@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180530 17:41:39-!- sevu [~Shiki@p548552BF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180530 17:47:34-!- Oebele [~quassel@143.177.58.202] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180530 18:18:04< irker203> wesnoth/wesnoth:1.14 gfgtdf 37f4286c65 fix seed not resetting in lua mapgen. AppVeyor: All builds passed 20180530 19:44:45-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180530 19:44:51-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180530 19:44:53< irker203> wesnoth: Byteron wesnoth:1.14 fe2d2dbe6a6f / data/campaigns/The_South_Guard/scenarios/ (02_Proven_by_the_Sword.cfg 07a_Into_the_Depths.cfg): [ci skip] fixes 3051, where in TSG, Deoran is able to recruit peasants during th https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/fe2d2dbe6a6ff5478527bcaac85b06f18f012182 20180530 19:50:33< irker203> wesnoth: Byteron wesnoth:master 7f2a8f7c1971 / data/campaigns/The_South_Guard/scenarios/ (02_Proven_by_the_Sword.cfg 07a_Into_the_Depths.cfg): TSG: Deoran can't recruit Peasants anymore https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/7f2a8f7c1971879956eaafe17f7ce0016d1f51d7 20180530 19:52:21-!- sevu [~Shiki@p548552BF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 20180530 20:39:21-!- Appleman1234 [~quassel@124x38x163x22.ap124.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20180530 20:45:06< zookeeper> (why do the commit messages differ?) 20180530 21:05:53< gfgtdf> loonycyborg: the official windows release (unliek the binries that appveyor produces) has dataexecutionprotection disabled, maybe you can change that? 20180530 21:06:20< loonycyborg> how exactly is that changed? 20180530 21:06:43< loonycyborg> with mingw that is 20180530 21:07:44< gfgtdf> i have no idea 20180530 21:11:49-!- Oebele [~quassel@143.177.58.202] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180530 21:12:25< gfgtdf> a quick look at the new suggested adding '-Wl,--nxcompat' to the linker options, but i didn't test that. 20180530 21:12:54< gfgtdf> net* 20180530 21:17:39< gfgtdf> hmm that might onyl be fore mingw-w64 though 20180530 21:20:00-!- gallaecio [~quassel@188.79.96.255] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180530 21:25:50-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180530 21:25:56-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180530 21:37:35< loonycyborg> will look into it 20180530 21:49:50-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180530 21:49:56-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180530 21:53:20< loonycyborg> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=836365 20180530 21:53:30< loonycyborg> seems they gonna make it the default upsteam 20180530 21:54:00< loonycyborg> maybe I should add expliticly -Wl,--dynamicbase -Wl,--nxcompat -Wl,--high-entropy-va for now 20180530 21:54:20-!- boucman [~rosen@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180530 22:03:46< irker203> wesnoth/wesnoth:opengl Martin Hrubý (hrubymar10) a725b46dc2 Fix Xcode project after 3e96a3aa2c357c53 AppVeyor: All builds passed 20180530 22:04:53< gfgtdf> loonycyborg, are you using mingw-w64 for official releases or the other mingw ? 20180530 22:05:25< loonycyborg> hmm maybe not 20180530 22:05:33< loonycyborg> in any case it will be easy to update 20180530 22:05:43<+discordbot4> I thought you were. 20180530 22:07:23< loonycyborg> or yes I do 20180530 22:07:31< loonycyborg> TDM-mingw64 20180530 22:08:38< loonycyborg> only I didn't upgrade it for long time already 20180530 22:08:44< loonycyborg> maybe simple upgrade will be enough 20180530 22:08:49< loonycyborg> to get that change 20180530 22:43:29-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy] 20180530 22:46:57-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20180530 23:17:20-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-dev 20180530 23:50:51-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has joined #wesnoth-dev --- Log closed Thu May 31 00:00:45 2018