--- Log opened Tue May 01 00:00:44 2018 20180501 00:02:42<+discordbot> 7 hours? Wouldn't that be in the ocean? πŸ˜„ 20180501 00:08:32<+discordbot> not really 20180501 00:08:42<+discordbot> eu is exactly 7 hours away 20180501 00:08:46<+discordbot> from america 20180501 00:09:01<+discordbot> If you go from Pacific time towards Europe, it is in the ocean. 20180501 00:09:12<+discordbot> the continents itself iirc. 20180501 00:09:20<+discordbot> germany is +6 from EDT 20180501 00:09:25<+discordbot> Yeh 20180501 00:09:42<+discordbot> It's pacific time though. 20180501 00:09:43<+discordbot> :GWfroggyBlobThonk: GMT+0 my dudes 20180501 00:09:49<+discordbot> Which is the only relevant time. 20180501 00:09:58<+discordbot> GMT is the most relevant 20180501 00:10:01<+discordbot> or UTC 20180501 00:10:07<+discordbot> Not for the release of Wesnoth. 20180501 00:10:16<+discordbot> I know right 20180501 00:10:37<+discordbot> So yeah, for GMT it is 8. 20180501 00:10:58<+discordbot> 7 is in the ocean. 20180501 00:11:20<+discordbot> so my initial saying for 9 was correct 20180501 00:11:22<+discordbot> smh i guess 20180501 00:11:41<+discordbot> i was calculating east coast wasnt it 20180501 00:14:40<+discordbot> Usually we release by GMT. This time we're releasing by PDT. 20180501 00:15:34<+discordbot> To mix it up? 20180501 00:16:48<+discordbot> I needed to set a projected release data on Steam. They use PDT. 20180501 01:37:29-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20180501 01:44:54<+discordbot> Heh 20180501 02:57:57<+discordbot> ive been playing this since 06 and was just wondering why its not on steam... Then saw its coming up in a few hours lol 20180501 02:58:05<+discordbot> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/231976805987385345/440708444949839906/unknown.png 20180501 02:58:43< celticminstrel> XD 20180501 02:59:42< celticminstrel> Nice timing? 20180501 04:01:25<+discordbot> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/231976805987385345/440724393916891148/Release_date_HELLO.png 20180501 04:01:30<+discordbot> HELLO EXCUSE ME WHATS GOING ON 20180501 04:01:44<+discordbot> lol 20180501 04:02:03< celticminstrel> Timezones. 20180501 04:02:12<+discordbot> i know im just teasing :p 20180501 04:06:25-!- HeyCitizen [HeyCitizen@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/heycitizen] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20180501 04:16:38-!- DeFender2048 [~danf@2601:155:4301:341d:c08:9090:90d4:df11] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20180501 04:33:14-!- DeFender2048 [~danf@2601:155:4301:341d:c08:9090:90d4:df11] has joined #wesnoth 20180501 04:42:47-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has quit [Quit: And lo! The computer falls into a deep sleep, to awake again some other day!] 20180501 04:57:35-!- DeFender2048 [~danf@2601:155:4301:341d:c08:9090:90d4:df11] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20180501 05:40:05<+discordbot> lol oh how GravityCat is so silly xPP 20180501 06:04:41-!- gallaecio [~quassel@188.79.96.255] has joined #wesnoth 20180501 06:51:20-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth 20180501 07:53:43<+discordbot> Hello fellow players, Have somebody recently played/is going to play MP on Mac vs a Windows client? I wonder if somebody can confirm this bug: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/issues/1661 and quote the versions used. Please ping me if you could test this. Thanks! 20180501 08:08:40-!- hk238 [~nn@unaffiliated/hk238] has joined #wesnoth 20180501 08:49:07<+discordbot> Remember that we have summer and winter time in Europe. Two times a year we change the clock by one hours. So crazy. 20180501 08:57:32<+discordbot> Well, we're trying to get rid of it: https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/7t2z0e/finland_to_advocate_removal_of_eu_wide_daylight/ 20180501 08:58:53< galegosimpatico> I read in Wikipedia most of north america is under daylight saving schemes too. 20180501 09:00:01< galegosimpatico> Oh :flag_fi: please do. Actually, please stop using the system of official timezones because now it does not make sense anymore. 20180501 09:00:25<+discordbot> (Also, for the record, I'm one of the 70 000 people who signed the petition that started the process) 20180501 09:08:11<+discordbot> Yeah changing clocks twice a year is such a pain in the ass (not sarcastic XD) 20180501 09:29:34<+discordbot> How do timezones not make sense o.o 20180501 09:55:25< galegosimpatico> Because every agent in the world is geolocated and UTC is already invented. Official timezones do not serve any purpose anymore. Worldwide sync is now handled by UTC, so people can move back to mean and real solar time, at last. 20180501 09:56:01< galegosimpatico> If needing to know the exact solar time, the handheld device helps it. 20180501 10:00:50< galegosimpatico> There is a startup doing it already.. 20180501 10:04:25<+discordbot> Pretty sure it would be impractical. 20180501 10:05:29< galegosimpatico> Can't remember the name but I have a link in my inbox buried under a ton of other low importance stuff. 20180501 10:05:41<+discordbot> You can't just expect everyone to use UTC 20180501 10:05:42<+discordbot> and not local time 20180501 10:06:04<+discordbot> it's 9:05 PM right now where I am. Saying it's 6:05 UTC is absolutely useless. 20180501 10:06:53< galegosimpatico> Of course. I think in a few generations, every bot agent will use UTC (they are already, right?) and every human agent will use solar time with handheld assistance. 20180501 10:07:43<+discordbot> Pretty sure bots use Unix time. 20180501 10:09:39< galegosimpatico> I'm not sure how e.g. west coast - east coast meetings will be scheduled, but for the day to day life in the context of a town or city, official time does not offer actual advantages over solar time once solar time is accessible. 20180501 10:09:49<+discordbot> Getting rid of timezones is pretty much useless. You'd be replacing something clear cut with a gradient scale. Someone 10 miles from you would have a slightly different time and you'd have to deal with the same problem that prompted the invention of timezones in the first place: desynchronization. 20180501 10:11:07< galegosimpatico> That can be handled by the handheld device. 20180501 10:12:05<+discordbot> Just.... 20180501 10:12:30<+discordbot> That makes no sense. 20180501 10:13:01<+discordbot> You're replacing something totally functional with something complicated, unwieldy, and unnecessary. 20180501 10:13:31<+discordbot> "Hey, what time is it over there for you?" "Oh, it's 6 o' clock, just like for you" "Ok, but is the sun still up?" 20180501 10:13:38<+discordbot> :P 20180501 10:13:48<+discordbot> :P 20180501 10:13:49< galegosimpatico> Nobody cares about official time, what matters are distances and time taken in travels, which is quite predictable. 20180501 10:14:13<+discordbot> The fact that Daylight Savings time exists is proof that people care about official time 20180501 10:14:18< galegosimpatico> I find much more complicated thinking in official time zones than having the device assisting with it. 20180501 10:15:02<+discordbot> Then why don't you use your device - your phone - to do what everyone done and google "time in x"? 20180501 10:15:12<+discordbot> The reason Daylight Savings Time became a thing is because it shifts the entire schedule without everybody having to individually change what time they schedule things :P 20180501 10:15:29<+discordbot> and then you know for everyone in X timezone, it is N time. 20180501 10:16:43< Ivanovic> galegosimpatico: what you actually care about is "are you already/still awake/available at that time?" 20180501 10:16:59< Ivanovic> galegosimpatico: and there is a lot more than just eastcoast/westcoast going on 20180501 10:17:07< Ivanovic> e.g. westcoast -> europe 20180501 10:17:07<+discordbot> Timezones are shifts from Greenwich. That makes them easily to calculate. East-west offsets at generally predictably intervals. 20180501 10:17:14< Ivanovic> or eastcoast->india 20180501 10:18:25<+discordbot> Calculating everything at local solar time not only makes easy conversion between local timezones and UTC impossible, it also introduces north-south variation and squares the offsets you need to consider. 20180501 10:18:34<+discordbot> The sun sets a LOT earlier near the equator 20180501 10:19:02< Ivanovic> and sunrise/sunset is not the same as "available or not" 20180501 10:20:28<+discordbot> Also, I bet you haven't considered height 20180501 10:20:48< galegosimpatico> Yeah I have to think more about Fiji and the day change line... and extreme latitudes. 20180501 10:21:18<+discordbot> Ya know the Burj Khalifa in Dubai? It's so high that for people at the top, sunset is a few minutes later than people at the bottom 20180501 10:21:53< Ivanovic> there is a more important thing: biorythm 20180501 10:22:08< Ivanovic> e.g. for me "sunrise" does not matter much since I only get up *long* after sunrise 20180501 10:22:15< Ivanovic> and go to bed long after sunset 20180501 10:22:30< Ivanovic> so who does really care about sunrise/sunset? 20180501 10:22:44<+discordbot> Our stone age ancestors πŸ˜› 20180501 10:23:00< Ivanovic> for me time "points" only exists to allow coordination with others 20180501 10:23:40< galegosimpatico> I would really want to try to adjust my biorythm to sunrise and sunset. 20180501 10:23:41< Ivanovic> starting with small things like times in a family when you share a meal 20180501 10:23:45<+discordbot> (Not calling galego a caveman, ftr) 20180501 10:24:23< Ivanovic> galegosimpatico: I guess the only things stopping you from doing this are small things like society with jobs and the likes 20180501 10:24:53< Ivanovic> and potentially the place where you live, like you would not do that if you were living in the northern parts of say sweden 20180501 10:25:13<+discordbot> Oh, and you're also forgetting the extreme north/south locations where the sun doesn't rise or set for long periods of the year. 20180501 10:25:15< Ivanovic> "cool, next sunrise is only 4 months away!" 20180501 10:25:44<+discordbot> We aren't bears. We don't have the luxury to hibernate and wait for the sunrise 20180501 10:26:02< galegosimpatico> We should absolutely rise a second sun to cope with that. 20180501 10:26:15<+discordbot> haven't you played UtBS! 20180501 10:26:27< Ivanovic> or just follow the biorythm and ignore sunrise/sunset 20180501 10:26:29< Ivanovic> ;) 20180501 10:27:24-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has joined #wesnoth 20180501 10:27:28< galegosimpatico> Real shit only happens until trying to rise a third sun, so... 20180501 10:27:54< Ivanovic> would it not be simpler to just destroy the one sun? 20180501 10:28:08<+discordbot> Just cut it in half πŸ˜‰ 20180501 10:28:12< Ivanovic> then we would have no more sunrise/sunset and nobody would have the problem anymore 20180501 10:28:12<+discordbot> :bowman: 20180501 10:28:27< Ivanovic> because everybody worldwide could operate with the same times 20180501 10:28:29< Ivanovic> :D 20180501 10:30:26< Ivanovic> and usually destroying something is soooo much easier than creating something new 20180501 10:31:24<+discordbot> πŸ‘» 20180501 10:49:57-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20180501 10:50:39-!- hk238 [~nn@unaffiliated/hk238] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20180501 10:51:43-!- hk238 [~nn@unaffiliated/hk238] has joined #wesnoth 20180501 11:23:15<+discordbot> pretty pumped for the steam release later πŸ˜ƒ does anyone know if the savefiles will be on the cloud? 20180501 11:23:32<+discordbot> Yes, they will be. 20180501 11:31:13<+discordbot> But that's tomorrow, right? 20180501 11:31:30<+discordbot> Yes 20180501 11:34:29<+discordbot> That's on May 1st 6 pm PDT, which is today for everyone between Eastern Europe and the US west coast. 20180501 11:34:40<+discordbot> Including me. 20180501 12:27:27-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180501 12:27:34-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20180501 12:33:22-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has quit [Quit: So long and thanks for all the fish.] 20180501 12:34:45<+discordbot> Oh, so May 1st after all? 20180501 12:34:52<+discordbot> Today its the day, my friends! I'm gonna set Wes as my favorite game in steam! 20180501 12:34:54<+discordbot> I thought it said May 2nd on Steam 20180501 12:35:05<+discordbot> That's great news! 20180501 12:35:22<+discordbot> @Choicerer It depends on your timezone. 20180501 12:35:32<+discordbot> Eastern Europe 20180501 12:35:38<+discordbot> Gmt +1 20180501 12:36:04<+discordbot> steam show (in Argentina), the game ready in a less 12 hrs 20180501 12:37:42<+discordbot> Oh yeah., that's may 2nd for Mainland Europe, then. 20180501 12:37:54<+discordbot> Most of it 20180501 12:37:56<+discordbot> that is 20180501 12:38:22<+discordbot> 3 AM 20180501 12:40:47<+discordbot> is gonna be a road map for steams features in the game? such as steam users, achievement, trading cards, etc 20180501 12:41:50<+discordbot> Ability to log in with Steam account is planned. 20180501 12:42:00<+discordbot> Achievements and trading cars are not. 20180501 12:42:48<+discordbot> ohh nice! thanks = ) why not cards? i think Dwarvish Ulfserker card with the smiley face is gonna rock your world jajaja xD 20180501 12:43:32<+discordbot> There are more important things we can spend effort on than the trading cards. 20180501 12:43:50<+discordbot> Of course, if someone volunteers to make them, then it wouldn't be a problem. 20180501 12:44:47<+discordbot> nice!!! ^^ thanks! my steam hype is on the moon! 20180501 12:59:43-!- HeyCitizen [HeyCitizen@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/heycitizen] has joined #wesnoth 20180501 13:08:52-!- Bhoren [~Bhoren_wh@2a01:e0a:c:2150:6563:a691:c8b:2b0e] has joined #wesnoth 20180501 13:09:58-!- Bhoren [~Bhoren_wh@2a01:e0a:c:2150:6563:a691:c8b:2b0e] has quit [Client Quit] 20180501 13:22:31<+discordbot> Random idea since achievements and trading cards are mentioned : I'm especially not familiar enough with Steam's trading cards system, but could it interest players if we released "full" versions of artwork such as portraits when they exist ? Some key artefacts and locations could also be made into cards, I guess 20180501 13:26:54<+discordbot> Hmmm 20180501 13:26:57<+discordbot> That’s an idea 20180501 13:27:03<+discordbot> πŸ€” 20180501 13:30:06-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has joined #wesnoth 20180501 13:42:49<+discordbot> its a great idea! = ) i realy like cards with troops images 20180501 13:43:20<+discordbot> one for each faction will be great 20180501 13:43:36<+discordbot> yup 20180501 13:55:05<+discordbot> and for the badget... Level 1: Peasant Level 2: Dwarvish Fighter Level 3: Wose Level 4: Iron Mauler Level 5: Elder Mage 20180501 13:55:43<+discordbot> (images of the troops for the badget icon), wesnoth have such a great art = ) 20180501 13:57:56<+discordbot> would be great 20180501 13:59:59<+discordbot> i know this features are not so important, but imho i think must user of steam care about this things, for tunning profiles to give one example 20180501 14:06:13<+discordbot> The art side is really easy, however I have absolutely no idea what kind of work the mechanics for it require. Achievements like play the tutorial, complete campagne XX, play a multiplayer game etc. would be nice to have, but that's surely easier said than done. 20180501 14:15:45<+discordbot> yes, you are right. Maybe cards and badget will be more easy to implement (sorry for my bad english) 20180501 14:18:38-!- DeFender2048 [~danf@2601:155:4301:341d:c08:9090:90d4:df11] has joined #wesnoth 20180501 14:27:49-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has quit [Quit: mattsc] 20180501 14:49:21-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has joined #wesnoth 20180501 15:05:10<+discordbot> How would you even get the cards? 20180501 15:05:19<+discordbot> It's free and no microtransactions. 20180501 15:06:18<+discordbot> only for play the game, you get cards to a max count. The missing cards you need to trade with other players 20180501 15:07:14<+discordbot> That would mean free cards. 20180501 15:07:37<+discordbot> I guess it'd get players? lol 20180501 16:32:32-!- hk238 [~nn@unaffiliated/hk238] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20180501 16:39:55-!- ForPeace [53182736@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.24.39.54] has joined #wesnoth 20180501 16:41:25< ForPeace> hi, when is 1.14 released? 20180501 16:41:44<+discordbot> Later today. 20180501 16:47:58-!- DeFender2048 [~danf@2601:155:4301:341d:c08:9090:90d4:df11] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 20180501 16:48:56< Rhonda> Cheers, wesnoth-1.14 is now in debian unstable. :) 20180501 16:50:33<+discordbot> 1.14 is on Arch repos, I think 20180501 16:59:01<+discordbot> https://store.steampowered.com/app/599390/Battle_for_Wesnoth/ yeahhh 20180501 16:59:06<+discordbot> @jyrkive cards are quite easy; all you need is a template and someone to stick portraits into the template. Beyond that we should do cards because they're a revenue source. 20180501 16:59:39<+discordbot> i would totally buy all the goodies 20180501 17:00:34<+discordbot> I feel like a template would be pretty easy to do too 20180501 17:00:55<+discordbot> if there's nothing obviously wrong with it, large portions of the titlescreen could be reused 20180501 17:01:04<+discordbot> e.g. have a section of the map on the back of the card with the logo in the center 20180501 17:02:24<+discordbot> @LordBob stuff like the campaign images for TRoW would be great for inclusion as backgrounds, portraits would be harder to bundle because they're... portrait rather than landscape. 20180501 17:09:12<+discordbot> We could use stuff like :bhammer: or a mini logo as emotes 20180501 17:11:55<+discordbot> hell yeah! i like all the things 20180501 17:12:26<+discordbot> wes have the perfect art for this steam cosmetics 20180501 17:15:46<+discordbot> Depending on how many players there are and how much demand there is, Wesnoth could bring in thousands of USD yearly just from the market royalties. 20180501 17:16:09<+discordbot> @MOX and yep I will max this badge out however high it goes 20180501 17:17:55<+discordbot> amen to that bro! 20180501 17:17:58<+discordbot> me to ? = 20180501 17:20:54<+discordbot> Foil badge should be campaign heroes, and then take 1 or 2 units from each MP faction for the standard cards 20180501 17:23:08<+discordbot> my steam wallet is ready! 20180501 17:23:16<+discordbot> @LordBob typically cards stay as just portrait images rather than full body 20180501 17:35:51-!- Ivanovic [~ivanovic@wesnoth/developer/ivanovic] has quit [Quit: Caught sigterm, terminating...] 20180501 17:36:13-!- Ivanovic [~ivanovic@p4FC53504.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth 20180501 17:36:13-!- Ivanovic [~ivanovic@p4FC53504.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Changing host] 20180501 17:36:13-!- Ivanovic [~ivanovic@wesnoth/developer/ivanovic] has joined #wesnoth 20180501 17:36:49<+discordbot> 7 hours 20180501 17:36:50<+discordbot> boys 20180501 17:53:19-!- octalot [~steve@91.141.1.16.wireless.dyn.drei.com] has joined #wesnoth 20180501 17:55:28-!- Ivanovic [~ivanovic@wesnoth/developer/ivanovic] has quit [Quit: Caught sigterm, terminating...] 20180501 17:55:50-!- Ivanovic [~ivanovic@p4FC53504.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth 20180501 17:55:59<+discordbot> dunefolk is gonna be a faction of the predeterminate era? 20180501 17:56:10-!- Ivanovic [~ivanovic@p4FC53504.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Changing host] 20180501 17:56:10-!- Ivanovic [~ivanovic@wesnoth/developer/ivanovic] has joined #wesnoth 20180501 18:01:00<+discordbot> Hmm trading cards might be less tweakable than I thought 20180501 18:02:38<+discordbot> why that 20180501 18:02:47<+discordbot> also yeah 20180501 18:03:13<+discordbot> will dunefolk be an officially accepted faction now? 20180501 18:03:36<+discordbot> what do you mean 20180501 18:04:09<+discordbot> you always had 20180501 18:04:12<+discordbot> default + khalifate 20180501 18:04:16<+discordbot> is that gone now 20180501 18:04:36-!- ForPeace [53182736@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.24.39.54] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20180501 18:04:53<+discordbot> No, it's now Default + Dunefolk. That does not mean they are somehow "unofficial" or somehow less a part of the game. 20180501 18:05:37<+discordbot> They might remain like that too, to avoid disrupting the calibrated balance of the Default era. 20180501 18:05:45<+discordbot> but why is that an option even why would i play WITHOUT dunesfolk 20180501 18:06:05<+discordbot> there are only two unusual things about them, the time of day isnt even that significant 20180501 18:06:06<+discordbot> its the 20180501 18:06:09<+discordbot> universal unit 20180501 18:06:11<+discordbot> Balance. 20180501 18:06:15<+discordbot> and the marksman sword 20180501 18:06:31<+discordbot> If they aren't balanced why not balance them 20180501 18:06:56<+discordbot> You'd be surprised at the number of people to whom the very idea of the addition of a seventh faction of any sort into the Default era is absolute sacrilege 20180501 18:07:06<+discordbot> lel 20180501 18:07:28<+discordbot> We have been working to balance the Dunefolk 20180501 18:07:31<+discordbot> Kepping everything balanced is extremely difficult, and gets exponentially more difficult when new factions are added. 20180501 18:08:17<+discordbot> But in the interest of simplicity we'll probably retain the 6-faction default era in some form. 20180501 18:08:21<+discordbot> The whole deal with people hating on the Dunefolk is reminiscent of people hating on the Drakes back when they were first introduced. 20180501 18:08:40<+discordbot> i dont think drakes belong even in the upper 3 20180501 18:08:41<+discordbot> The Drakes debate was still lingering around years later. 20180501 18:08:48<+discordbot> they are too expensive 20180501 18:09:07<+discordbot> default is already not extremely well-balanced, and adding Dunefolk would compound that problem because they are even less balanced 20180501 18:09:17<+discordbot> what IS balanced then? 20180501 18:09:26<+discordbot> isnt default played in ladder 20180501 18:09:28<+discordbot> according to high-ranked ladder person I know 20180501 18:09:32<+discordbot> yes 20180501 18:09:32<+discordbot> See 20180501 18:09:42<+discordbot> Everyone has their own opinion of Default's balance. 20180501 18:09:55<+discordbot> however certain matchups are supposedly a death sentence 20180501 18:10:01<+discordbot> dwarves undead 20180501 18:10:01<+discordbot> The Ladder people are the ones who old the 6-faction Default to be absolutely perfect and balanced 20180501 18:10:02<+discordbot> e.g. knalgans vs. loyalist on certain maps 20180501 18:10:05<+discordbot> unwinnable matchup 20180501 18:10:13<+discordbot> And I don't think there's a single person around anymore who isn't either biased or incompetent when it comes to altering unit stats. 20180501 18:10:18<+discordbot> it depends on the map and the factions 20180501 18:10:34<+discordbot> (And no, I'm afraid the ladder people do not count as unbiased.) 20180501 18:10:35<+discordbot> dwarves beat undead 10/10 times with every unit 20180501 18:10:52<+discordbot> But in short, shadowm is right. Balance is hard. 20180501 18:11:00-!- claymore [~claymore@unaffiliated/claymore] has joined #wesnoth 20180501 18:11:02<+discordbot> Look at Dota 2. 20180501 18:11:04<+discordbot> in any case, most of the MP people I know seem to want to have a default and a default+Dunefolk 20180501 18:11:21<+discordbot> IceFrog has been balancing and tweaking it for years now 20180501 18:11:23<+discordbot> If i'm playing with friends, do I enable dunesfolk or not 20180501 18:11:30<+discordbot> really up to you 20180501 18:11:31<+discordbot> The MP people are crazy. 20180501 18:11:34<+discordbot> That's entirely up to you 20180501 18:11:39<+discordbot> why me tho 20180501 18:11:43<+discordbot> so if i dont like 20180501 18:11:45<+discordbot> middle eastern men 20180501 18:11:47<+discordbot> i disable 20180501 18:11:58<+discordbot> if you don't like the faction lore/style/gameplay 20180501 18:12:00<+discordbot> then you disable 20180501 18:12:21<+discordbot> If you don't like middle eastern men you have a problem. 20180501 18:12:27<+discordbot> See, the problem with that is it encourages favoritism if its enabled its going to be played always 20180501 18:12:30<+discordbot> you only enable it 20180501 18:12:33<+discordbot> to play them 20180501 18:12:36<+discordbot> not really 20180501 18:12:47<+discordbot> ive always imagined a system where you can pick whatever factions you have downloaded into a custom era for mp 20180501 18:12:56<+discordbot> if you have a party of 4 20180501 18:13:04<+discordbot> maybe one person in your group will want to try out Dunefolk 20180501 18:13:12<+discordbot> and others will want to try out other factions e.g Drakes/Undead 20180501 18:13:20<+discordbot> or if you're all going random 20180501 18:13:27<+discordbot> Dunefolk becomes an option but may not get chosen by RNG 20180501 18:13:31<+discordbot> If one of my friends is a known khalifate player i can, as the room host, just disable it 20180501 18:13:45<+discordbot> easy counter 20180501 18:13:47<+discordbot> in ladder, most people pick random if you're worried about competitiveness 20180501 18:14:21<+discordbot> not picking random yields to just getting countered 20180501 18:14:27<+discordbot> i believe 20180501 18:14:43<+discordbot> we need a lock-in pick system or something 20180501 18:14:46<+discordbot> all pick 20180501 18:14:48<+discordbot> for factions 20180501 18:14:55<+discordbot> why don't you give this feedback to the ladder people? 20180501 18:15:05<+discordbot> because i use nothing but discord 20180501 18:15:09<+discordbot> sorry 20180501 18:15:09<+discordbot> hmm 20180501 18:17:07<+discordbot> yah right now the base game doesn't have any competitive system 20180501 18:17:07<+discordbot> it's all run by the ladder people 20180501 18:17:20<+discordbot> rip 20180501 18:17:40<+discordbot> i should do something about that 20180501 18:18:15<+discordbot> i assume people will want to compete further when wesnoth launches 20180501 18:18:31<+discordbot> to offend everyone 20180501 18:18:36<+discordbot> i can compare wesnoth to dota and chess 20180501 18:18:43<+discordbot> those games are tactical and have tourneys 20180501 18:19:03<+discordbot> Well, they could join the ladder people. 20180501 18:19:21<+discordbot> i dont even remember how i found out about ladder 20180501 18:19:22<+discordbot> i think 20180501 18:19:27<+discordbot> from a random really good guy 20180501 18:19:30<+discordbot> in a queue 20180501 18:19:35<+discordbot> Wesnoth is an open source game after all 20180501 18:19:53<+discordbot> if someone wants to try implementing a rating system in the base game and the devs are okay with it 20180501 18:19:58<+discordbot> then they can do it 20180501 18:20:07<+discordbot> dont remember much about ladder but afaik it doesnt have prizes 20180501 18:20:19<+discordbot> I could host something in half a year depending on how it goes 20180501 18:20:19<+discordbot> also 20180501 18:20:23<+discordbot> just steal the glicko system 20180501 18:20:28<+discordbot> shove it in comp and you're donski 20180501 18:20:54<+discordbot> actually 20180501 18:20:57<+discordbot> hmm 20180501 18:21:04<+discordbot> mmr will make people tilt very hard 20180501 18:21:10<+discordbot> on RNG and the longevity of matches 20180501 18:21:22<+discordbot> @Yumi The devs specifically rejected the very idea of building a ranking system into Wesnoth. 20180501 18:21:28<+discordbot> oh no 20180501 18:21:34<+discordbot> very well, that settles it 20180501 18:21:47<+discordbot> I can't say I entirely disagree that historical decision. 20180501 18:22:06<+discordbot> I've seen plenty of toxicity from competitive players in the last 10 years. 20180501 18:22:43<+discordbot> Making it part of the game would only serve to encourage cheating (which is too easy as it is because of Wesnoht's design) and make staff's lives harder than they already are. 20180501 18:23:13<+discordbot> I mean, heck, I'm pretty sure everyone knows people already cheat on the ladder all the time. 20180501 18:23:25<+discordbot> you make a nice point there...cheating is hard to beat = ( 20180501 18:24:02<+discordbot> It's not hard to just save the game and open it in a second instance if you want to see where your opponent's at through fog of war, for instance. 20180501 18:24:42<+discordbot> i guess now all the games should remove competitive because cheaters exist 20180501 18:24:53<+discordbot> that is not the point 20180501 18:24:58<+discordbot> Yeah, nice strawman there. 20180501 18:25:08<+discordbot> beat cheating is hard, look at pubg 20180501 18:25:27<+discordbot> The games you're thinking off devote inordinate amounts of money and energy at mitigating the cheating issue as best as they can. 20180501 18:25:37<+discordbot> Yes 20180501 18:25:41<+discordbot> Our developers are all volunteers. 20180501 18:25:48<+discordbot> they have a lot of money and spend big part in anticheating 20180501 18:26:00<+discordbot> And such games also obfuscate their source code AFAIK to make reverse engineering harder. 20180501 18:26:04<+discordbot> Not an option for us. 20180501 18:26:21<+discordbot> They usually don't obfuscate their source code, they just don't release it. :p 20180501 18:26:51<+discordbot> I meant both. Obfuscate -> compile -> release binary. 20180501 18:26:55<+discordbot> the point is that wesnoth is inherently tactical and open source, of course Cheating would technically be less of a threat because all the cheaters will be in comp mode :GWchadMEGATHINK: 20180501 18:27:04<+discordbot> So that the code can't be derived from the binary. 20180501 18:27:23<+discordbot> you see, comp mode won't just birth cheaters 20180501 18:27:25<+discordbot> they already exist 20180501 18:27:32<+discordbot> Encourage. 20180501 18:27:33<+discordbot> bUt ISnT PlAYiNG ELvES baSiCAllY CHeaTiNg 20180501 18:27:49<+discordbot> Implying elves are OP. 20180501 18:27:54<+discordbot> muh slows 20180501 18:28:11<+discordbot> πŸ’€ 20180501 18:28:30<+discordbot> imho, default era is very good balanced, i like play 2vs2 in isar 20180501 18:28:32<+discordbot> i guess you're right, wesnoth will forever be casual because it's open source 20180501 18:29:15<+discordbot> a local tournament! lan party = ) 20180501 18:29:27<+discordbot> doesn't exclude cheating 20180501 18:29:28<+discordbot> Wesnoth isn't casual. Wesnoth is life. 20180501 18:29:58<+discordbot> Nice living with 100% hit rate 20180501 18:30:29<+discordbot> What implementations will Discord have with Wesnoth if any? 20180501 18:30:40<+discordbot> for example, plus button, game status 20180501 18:31:09<+discordbot> I intend to implement Rich Presence at some point. 20180501 19:00:32-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180501 19:00:38-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20180501 19:01:39-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20180501 19:09:50-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@95.175.104.101] has joined #wesnoth 20180501 19:09:56-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@95.175.104.101] has quit [Changing host] 20180501 19:09:56-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth 20180501 20:39:50-!- claymore [~claymore@unaffiliated/claymore] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20180501 20:50:19-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 20180501 20:54:43-!- aeth [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20180501 20:55:24-!- aeth [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has joined #wesnoth 20180501 21:03:40<+discordbot> https://steamcommunity.com/app/599390 20180501 21:06:50<+discordbot> Hm? 20180501 21:07:37<+discordbot> People are posting questions there. 20180501 21:08:43-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has joined #wesnoth 20180501 21:09:14<+discordbot> >requires third party account but it doesnt. Atleast didnt require (aside from, well, forums). Or now its must for multiplayer? 20180501 21:15:14<+discordbot> Yeah, okay, can we please use #development for this kind of thing? 20180501 21:46:42-!- gallaecio [~quassel@188.79.96.255] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180501 22:02:02<+discordbot> Sure 20180501 22:27:41<+discordbot> Ooh Yumi is now a mod, late congratulations! 20180501 22:31:29<+discordbot> !!! 20180501 22:31:29<+discordbot> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/231976805987385345/441003742108581888/Ohmygodyes.PNG 20180501 22:34:26<+discordbot> so for this steam version of battle for wesnoth 20180501 22:34:35<+discordbot> will we be able to challenge steam friends who also have this game 20180501 22:34:39<+discordbot> because that would be really cool! :D 20180501 22:45:34<+discordbot> Shift+tab (assuming that you didn't change the shortcut), pick a friend, write '1v1 Wesnoth?' or something. Done πŸ˜‚ 20180501 22:46:35<+discordbot> well that doesn't really answer my question; im just wondering if there will be a function to invite steam friends 20180501 22:46:44<+discordbot> to a wesnoth server lobby thing with you 20180501 22:49:47<+discordbot> @Crimson_Conure at the time of launch there won't be any fancy Steam integration I'm afraid. It would be a great thing to have in future, though there are challenges since Wesnoth is GPL so it limits what we can do with the Steam API. 20180501 22:50:24<+discordbot> We do have basic Steam Cloud support for your saves, though 20180501 22:52:26<+discordbot> oh, yes. ❀ 20180501 22:56:07<+discordbot> Hmm 20180501 22:57:01<+discordbot> so somehow it is compatible with the steam cloud, but you guys cant make it compatible with steam friend inviting etc.? or like at least its hard to see how to do so? 20180501 22:57:13<+discordbot> i dont know anything about programming sorry xD 20180501 22:57:27<+discordbot> so i dont know much about GPL vs API, etc. 20180501 22:59:27<+discordbot> yeah steam cloud integration is super easy, but steam friend inviting has some challenges. 20180501 22:59:49<+discordbot> I see. Dang! :( 20180501 23:00:01<+discordbot> Okay what if you message a steam friend to play wesnoth and they want to play 20180501 23:00:11<+discordbot> do you just make a room and then give them a code? 20180501 23:00:17<+discordbot> and of course we are always open to volunteers who want to help. :) 20180501 23:00:23<+discordbot> I see :) 20180501 23:00:38<+discordbot> yeah you'd tell them to come onto the server and join your game 20180501 23:00:41<+discordbot> alright 20180501 23:00:46<+discordbot> i guess thats all thats needed tbh 20180501 23:00:50<+discordbot> :p 20180501 23:03:11<+discordbot> @Denivarius Isn't integration with Steam friends part of the Steam SDK issue? 20180501 23:03:14<+discordbot> What if you like make a launcher for wesnoth that is API or something, and it has a multiplayer menu and everything, and you invite a friend automatically, and then when they accept it redirects them to the normal wesnoth and then redirects them to a room? 20180501 23:03:44-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180501 23:03:51<+discordbot> API just means Application Programming Interface. 20180501 23:04:03<+discordbot> That's how programs communicate with each other basically. 20180501 23:04:22<+discordbot> (Or rather how you write programs so that they can interact with each other -- including the operating system.) 20180501 23:05:14<+discordbot> @shadowm yes it is. 20180501 23:05:26<+discordbot> Then it's not really an issue that can be solved throwing volunteers at it. 20180501 23:06:00<+discordbot> I mean, maybe? Someone could look into technical and/or legal ways around it. 20180501 23:06:08<+discordbot> Actually, I did. 20180501 23:06:18<+discordbot> your conclusion was "no way around it"? 20180501 23:06:20<+discordbot> Vultraz didn't seem convinced by my discovery. 20180501 23:06:28<+discordbot> https://hg.icculus.org/icculus/steamshim/ 20180501 23:07:11<+discordbot> (I did not conclude anything since it's not my place to do so.) 20180501 23:07:36<+discordbot> I mean yeah, that kind of thing is what you could do. I think some people might be unhappy about it 'not being in the spirit of the GPL' though I would be fine with it at least. 20180501 23:07:53<+discordbot> That's my main worry. 20180501 23:08:07<+discordbot> I didn't reject that idea. It's simply rather out of my depth 20180501 23:08:12<+discordbot> note that Ryan Gordon is one of the most prolific porters of games to Linux, so he's probably researched this a lot. 20180501 23:08:23<+discordbot> yeah so to me this is the kind of thing a volunteer could implement. 20180501 23:08:39<+discordbot> Isn't he employed by Valve now as well or am I misremembering? 20180501 23:08:53<+discordbot> he's a contractor who has bounced around and been employed by just about everyone 20180501 23:09:16<+discordbot> if he helped port this to linux hes not exacly a spring chicken 20180501 23:09:28<+discordbot> No he's not worked with us. :p 20180501 23:09:30<+discordbot> unless he was a child star lol 20180501 23:09:34<+discordbot> I'd feel greatly honored if that was the case. 20180501 23:09:44<+discordbot> Wesnoth wasn't ported to Linux. 20180501 23:10:04<+discordbot> the first time i found it was on an ubuntu app store in 06 20180501 23:10:07<+discordbot> it was originally developed on Linux. 20180501 23:10:49<+discordbot> i misread your above quote 20180501 23:11:35-!- octalot [~steve@91.141.1.16.wireless.dyn.drei.com] has quit [] 20180501 23:11:40<+discordbot> anyhow, I'd say that using that steam shim would be our best path to getting this stuff working 20180501 23:12:15<+discordbot> and I doubt anyone would oppose it. 20180501 23:32:03<+discordbot> why not just convince valve to release whole sdk under a permissive license.. 20180501 23:36:54<+discordbot> @loonycyborg By all means, please do write them a nicely-worded telling them to do that. 20180501 23:36:59<+discordbot> letter 20180501 23:37:09<+discordbot> Godspeed. 20180501 23:37:22<+discordbot> (In all seriousness, drop it. This is not the place for that kind of debate.) 20180501 23:37:30<+discordbot> I think dave is better positioned to do that 20180501 23:42:36-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has quit [Quit: So long and thanks for all the fish.] 20180501 23:54:51<+discordbot> in any case I looked into steam shim in the past, it supports very limited subset of api 20180501 23:54:59<+discordbot> iirc mostly good for making achievements 20180501 23:55:02-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has joined #wesnoth 20180501 23:56:21<+discordbot> And also I don't think it will hold in court if someone deems it GPL violation by itself 20180501 23:57:29<+discordbot> :GWchadThinkeyes: 20180501 23:57:49<+discordbot> The GNU GPL itself has only been brought to court once or twice as far as I know. 20180501 23:57:53<+discordbot> though chances are that nobody ever will 20180501 23:57:57<+discordbot> Brought up in court, rather. 20180501 23:58:08<+discordbot> I don't remember what the case was about though. 20180501 23:58:12<+discordbot> I think it's a lot more than that 20180501 23:59:13<+discordbot> at least there were some high profile cases 20180501 23:59:27<+discordbot> I can name tivo right off my mind --- Log closed Wed May 02 00:00:46 2018