--- Log opened Fri May 04 00:00:03 2018 20180504 02:29:01<+discordbot> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/231976805987385345/441788298864623638/unknown.png 20180504 02:29:16<+discordbot> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/231976805987385345/441788355693510666/unknown.png 20180504 02:30:36<+discordbot> btw I have a question for developers 20180504 02:30:51<+discordbot> when you download pc version of wesnoth, it is named as wesnoth win 32 20180504 02:31:05<+discordbot> is there any win 64 version of wesnoth? 20180504 02:31:23<+discordbot> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/231976805987385345/441788894694998016/unknown.png 20180504 02:31:41<+discordbot> not on windows 20180504 02:32:10<+discordbot> unless our packager made the change he was planning on 20180504 02:32:27-!- Necrosporus [~Necrospor@unaffiliated/necrosporus] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20180504 02:33:15-!- Necrosporus [~Necrospor@unaffiliated/necrosporus] has joined #wesnoth 20180504 02:33:28<+discordbot> what does win 32 compatible version entail? 20180504 02:34:01<+discordbot> I mean wouldnt the game's performance improve by any extent if making it into 64bit version 20180504 02:34:41<+discordbot> a 32 bit app can access 42 GB of memory at most 20180504 02:34:42<+discordbot> er 20180504 02:34:43<+discordbot> 2 20180504 02:34:44<+discordbot> not 42 20180504 02:37:26<+discordbot> is there any way we can override this 20180504 02:37:43<+discordbot> because you know wesnoth really isnt a game that 2GB can carry sometimes 20180504 02:38:03<+discordbot> you play world conquest, spam 500+ units 20180504 02:38:10<+discordbot> no 20180504 02:38:14<+discordbot> some campaign require man spam 20180504 02:38:23<+discordbot> like I said, it's a packaging thing 20180504 02:38:32<+discordbot> 🤔 ah okay... 20180504 02:38:40<+discordbot> idk shit about packaging tho lol 20180504 02:38:47<+discordbot> it sounds rocket science to me 20180504 02:38:51<+discordbot> 😂 20180504 02:39:12<+discordbot> who is the packager? 20180504 02:39:31<+discordbot> how much ram could wesnoth utilize if a 64 bit version is made? 20180504 02:40:09<+discordbot> dunno 20180504 02:40:11<+discordbot> A lot 20180504 02:40:12<+discordbot> a lot more than 2 20180504 02:40:58<+discordbot> More than you'll ever need for anything 20180504 02:41:02<+discordbot> Within reason, at least 20180504 02:41:04<+discordbot> 🤔 20180504 02:41:22<+discordbot> will that have any potential to reduce the massive lag when you had too many units? 20180504 02:41:39<+discordbot> unlikely 20180504 02:41:55<+discordbot> wesnoth crashes if it ever hits the 2 GB limit 20180504 02:41:56<+discordbot> so 20180504 02:43:42<+discordbot> wesnoth is already packaged as 64 bit on macOS and Linu 20180504 02:44:07<+discordbot> is that 2GB crash inevitable? 20180504 02:44:14<+discordbot> yes 20180504 02:44:29<+discordbot> any technical explainations of this phenoemena? 20180504 02:44:39<+discordbot> it just runs out of memory 20180504 02:44:43<+discordbot> lol 20180504 02:45:09<+discordbot> is there any way to make wesnoth run faster and lag less when you have too many units 20180504 02:45:40<+discordbot> use fewer units 20180504 02:48:19<+discordbot> 😂 20180504 02:48:33<+discordbot> wesnoth isn't built to handle an extreme number of units 20180504 02:48:33<+discordbot> can you guys tell NR maintainer 20180504 02:48:44<+discordbot> rework on the size of forces in this whole campaign 20180504 02:48:46<+discordbot> don't think we even have one Lol 20180504 02:48:55<+discordbot> I'm the closest 20180504 02:49:00<+discordbot> there is no maintainer for NR? 20180504 02:49:08<+discordbot> yah, and Vultraz is wayyyy too busy to worry about NR rework right now 20180504 02:49:21<+discordbot> thank you 20180504 03:01:21<+discordbot> Real talk now tho, https://wiki.wesnoth.org/Contrib:Jason_Lutes were clearly the best portraits 20180504 03:01:22<+discordbot> hides 20180504 03:01:40<+discordbot> I do actually kinda miss them sometimes, not gonna lie 20180504 03:01:47<+discordbot> Not to say the new ones aren't a huge improvement 20180504 03:02:17<+discordbot> ...use them in your UMC 20180504 03:02:30<+discordbot> I have UMC? 20180504 03:03:08<+discordbot> please don't use them 20180504 03:04:20<+discordbot> I think if I were to create UMC, that you would rather I use them than attempt to draw 20180504 03:04:45<+discordbot> ...I'm glad that the great forum implosion of yesteryear killed all my awful attempts of art off the forums... 20180504 03:49:39-!- shiki [~Shiki@p5485475B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth 20180504 03:49:39-!- sevu [~Shiki@p548556F0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Disconnected by services] 20180504 04:12:38-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180504 04:12:45-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20180504 04:16:51< celticminstrel> Oh hi @Flameheart. 20180504 04:17:32< celticminstrel> I see a friend request... 20180504 04:23:27-!- shiki [~Shiki@p5485475B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 20180504 04:26:01<+discordbot> really? 20180504 04:26:06<+discordbot> I didnt use IRC tho... 20180504 04:27:30< celticminstrel> No on Steam. 20180504 04:27:46< celticminstrel> IRC doesn't even have a friend system. 20180504 04:28:21<+discordbot> whats your steam ID again? sry I cant recognize you by the IRC id lol 20180504 04:28:32< celticminstrel> It's the same though. :P 20180504 04:28:46< celticminstrel> I think I capitalized it on Steam, mind you. 20180504 04:28:47<+discordbot> dam, then I got to check it again sometime later 20180504 04:28:56< celticminstrel> So is that not you, then? 20180504 04:29:13< celticminstrel> Okay I guess I didn't capitalize it on Steam. 20180504 04:30:44-!- gallaecio [~quassel@188.79.96.255] has joined #wesnoth 20180504 04:31:09<+discordbot> 🤔 20180504 04:31:25< celticminstrel> I can't see that emoji. 20180504 04:31:28<+discordbot> how does this channel transfer msg of emoji to IRC 20180504 04:31:34<+discordbot> yeah thats I am wondering... 20180504 04:31:41< celticminstrel> They're Unicode characters, so that's how it transfers them. 20180504 04:31:49< celticminstrel> But I don't have the latest emoji fonts, so... 20180504 04:31:59<+discordbot> is IRC still popular as a chat tool 20180504 04:32:08<+discordbot> or just nerds like us using it these days 20180504 04:32:13<+discordbot> What about custom emojis :thisisfine: 20180504 04:32:17< celticminstrel> Surprisingly I think it is actually pretty popular. 20180504 04:32:28<+discordbot> thats the confusing part tho 20180504 04:32:29< celticminstrel> @O[A] I just see the code there. 20180504 04:32:33<+discordbot> IRC's still popular, especially with open-source projects 20180504 04:32:37<+discordbot> because IRC is so old schooled tool 20180504 04:32:55<+discordbot> Discord's slowly taking over for other kinds of communities tho 20180504 04:33:07<+discordbot> This bridge you have going here is really neat 20180504 04:33:12<+discordbot> I didn't know that existed until now 20180504 04:33:32< celticminstrel> But who's it popular with? AFAIK it's mostly tech-oriented people (like open-source projects), or anime/manga fan translators. 20180504 04:33:53< celticminstrel> But I'm pretty confident that IRC will outlast Discord. 20180504 04:34:22<+discordbot> I mean, it's an open protocol, dead-simple to implement, Discord's a closed-source app 20180504 04:34:42<+discordbot> Dead simple to implement, infuriatingly hard to get right across all servers. 20180504 04:34:43< celticminstrel> Exactly. 20180504 04:34:59< celticminstrel> If the people behind Discord went out of business or something, it'd be dead in the water. 20180504 04:35:07< celticminstrel> There's no such barrier for IRC. 20180504 04:35:30< celticminstrel> There are open-source servers and open-source clients. 20180504 04:35:33<+discordbot> That can be said for most chat apps, really, with few exceptions of open protocols like IRC and XMPP 20180504 04:35:44<+discordbot> Not to mention full of non-standard mechanisms implemented as an afterthought that nowadays ought to be built-in (looking at everyone at their dog who have their own IRC services). 20180504 04:35:53< celticminstrel> And the protocol specification is available for anyone to view as an RFC. 20180504 04:36:24< celticminstrel> (Though the RFC isn't actually enough for someone implementing a server or client.) 20180504 04:36:58<+discordbot> Yeah, Discord's got a lot of neat stuff built in which makes the barrier to entry much lower for both server maintainers and users 20180504 04:37:03<+discordbot> can you guys improve IRC 20180504 04:37:05<+discordbot> Moderation tools in particular 20180504 04:37:12<+discordbot> make it allow sending emojis and pictures 20180504 04:37:18<+discordbot> and files 20180504 04:37:24-!- gallaecio_ [~quassel@188.79.96.255] has joined #wesnoth 20180504 04:37:27<+discordbot> IRC allows all of that, technically. 20180504 04:37:29-!- gallaecio [~quassel@188.79.96.255] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20180504 04:37:36<+discordbot> It's just a matter of clients consistently implementing it. 20180504 04:37:58<+discordbot> can wesnoth IRC do that? 20180504 04:38:06<+discordbot> And emoji in particular don't require anything from the server as long as the server doesn't enforce an encoding that isn't UTF-8. 20180504 04:38:10<+discordbot> Wesnoth IRC doesn't exist. 20180504 04:38:20<+discordbot> Our channel is hosted on the freenode IRC network. 20180504 04:38:58< celticminstrel> @Flameheart - It already allows sending emojis and files. 20180504 04:39:08<+discordbot> They run their servers how they see fit (and they're actually known for non-standard practices that are frowned upon on other IRC networks). 20180504 04:39:17<+discordbot> but you said it cant transfer emojis from the discord channel tho 20180504 04:39:19< celticminstrel> Though the file-sending mechanism is a little unreliable as it's a peer-to-peer protocol and thus requires someone to open ports. 20180504 04:39:30<+discordbot> The bridge bot can. 20180504 04:39:36<+discordbot> At least most of them. 20180504 04:39:41< celticminstrel> @Flameheart, it transfers them just fine, I simply lack the font to view them. That's not a problem with IRC. 20180504 04:39:57<+discordbot> I see 20180504 04:40:06< celticminstrel> I'm curious about these non-standard practices shadowm mentions... 20180504 04:40:15<+discordbot> The funny cloaks for starters. 20180504 04:40:40<+discordbot> They had to apply specific patches to the charybdis codebase to get / allowed in hostnames like it was in hyperion. 20180504 04:41:14<+discordbot> On other IRC networks cloaks are DNS-compatible randomised strings rather than vanity labels. 20180504 04:41:28<+discordbot> freenode's cloaks are not DNS-compatible. 20180504 04:41:53<+discordbot> They also have patches to make K:lines behave like G:lines and remove G:line-related functionality. 20180504 04:42:27<+discordbot> Their integration with Atheme services also involved a few patches of their own on both sides, especially the Atheme side. 20180504 04:42:45<+discordbot> They have like two or three service bots that are closed-source. 20180504 04:43:01<+discordbot> One of them is the proxy master mechanism. 20180504 04:43:21<+discordbot> (Manages webchat, shell providers, Tor, and others.) 20180504 04:44:08<+discordbot> Another is part of the infrastructure they need for ircop usage but I don't remember the specifics anymore. 20180504 04:45:00<+discordbot> And there's also the spam control bot that isn't part of the server functionality but is also closed-source and watches specific channels. 20180504 04:45:27<+discordbot> That one was the habit of issuing K:lines disgused as simple KILLs for some reason. 20180504 04:45:35<+discordbot> *has 20180504 04:46:38<+discordbot> Oh yeah, there's also their insistence on calling ircops "staff" and claiming all staff have the same access while factual evidence proves that is not the case. 20180504 04:47:32<+discordbot> I.e. it's pretty obvious there's extremely few staff members with access to network routing and server administration capabilities than staff members with access to user management commands. 20180504 04:47:46<+discordbot> And amongst the latter it's also evident that not all of them can use KILL or KLINE. 20180504 04:48:54-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has quit [Quit: And lo! The computer falls into a deep sleep, to awake again some other day!] 20180504 04:49:37-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has joined #wesnoth 20180504 04:49:56-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has quit [Client Quit] 20180504 04:50:13-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has joined #wesnoth 20180504 04:50:26-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has quit [Client Quit] 20180504 04:50:47<+discordbot> Oh and there's also their obsession with discouraging chanops to remain opped for longer than necessary to perform op actions. 20180504 05:15:48-!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: nore, Falcon 20180504 05:16:24-!- Falcon` [falcon@ip248.ip-5-196-244.eu] has joined #wesnoth 20180504 05:16:28-!- Netsplit over, joins: nore 20180504 05:21:14-!- Necrosporus [~Necrospor@unaffiliated/necrosporus] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20180504 05:21:41-!- Necrosporus [~Necrospor@unaffiliated/necrosporus] has joined #wesnoth 20180504 05:22:16<+discordbot> But seeing someone in the channel with an @ sign could cause turmoil! 20180504 05:22:59-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has quit [Quit: So long and thanks for all the fish.] 20180504 05:24:05-!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20180504 05:28:29<+discordbot> @Ieuan certainly a well-implemented take on that art style 20180504 05:28:44<+discordbot> I have some nostalgia looking at those for sure 20180504 05:31:13-!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #wesnoth 20180504 05:46:35-!- gallaecio_ [~quassel@188.79.96.255] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180504 06:29:05-!- gallaecio [~quassel@148.red-83-37-165.dynamicip.rima-tde.net] has joined #wesnoth 20180504 07:12:49-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has joined #wesnoth 20180504 07:15:58-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth 20180504 07:36:22-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180504 07:40:22-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has joined #wesnoth 20180504 07:46:39-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180504 07:46:45-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20180504 08:00:02-!- synthpopisback [~synthpopi@cpe-2606-A000-7947-5000-C8DF-D15C-902F-B397.dyn6.twc.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20180504 08:20:14-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180504 08:44:34-!- hk238 [~nn@unaffiliated/hk238] has joined #wesnoth 20180504 10:14:53<+discordbot> where did you graduate shadowm 20180504 10:15:00<+discordbot> you talk like a professor lol 20180504 10:23:46<+discordbot> No. A proper professor would use gratuitous latin. 20180504 10:24:33<+discordbot> that is creepy 20180504 10:25:13<+discordbot> wut the 20180504 10:25:15<+discordbot> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/231976805987385345/441908143048622080/unknown.png 20180504 10:25:20<+discordbot> you guys add a new campaign 20180504 10:25:37<+discordbot> is that the unfinished drake main line campaign back in 6 years ago? 20180504 10:25:46<+discordbot> No. 20180504 10:26:34<+discordbot> oh, its undead one 20180504 10:26:47<+discordbot> so theres still no mainline drake campaign? 20180504 10:27:13<+discordbot> nop :^( 20180504 10:30:44<+discordbot> any ideas of making popular UMC drake campaigns into mainlines? 20180504 10:30:53<+discordbot> because you guys know drake is hard faction to use 20180504 10:31:05<+discordbot> there somehow need a campaign for nubs to start it with 20180504 10:34:00<+discordbot> Yes, someone's looking into it already but I don't think gameplay difficulty will be a decisive factor in choosing one. 20180504 10:34:25<+discordbot> what are the decisive factor for you guys into choosing a mainline campaign? 20180504 10:35:48<+discordbot> I think this sums it up: https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=625838#p625838 20180504 10:38:52<+discordbot> dat is hard 20180504 10:40:34<+discordbot> if thats the case I doubt any drake campaign could make to main anymore 20180504 10:40:57<+discordbot> actually no....idk 20180504 10:41:09<+discordbot> is there any more new campaign makers maintaining their projects? 20180504 10:41:16<+discordbot> Yes. 20180504 10:41:58<+discordbot> And in any case I believe sigurdfd is aware of a few UMC candidates for the first mainline Drakes campaign, it's just a matter of time. 20180504 10:42:08<+discordbot> (But obviously that will not be in 1.14.) 20180504 10:42:35<+discordbot> I think back in like 6 years ago there was a drake campaign with only 4 episodes finished supposed to become mainline 20180504 10:42:44<+discordbot> made by some of your main devs I think 20180504 10:43:06<+discordbot> whats the name of that UMC, and hows it become over years? 20180504 10:43:11<+discordbot> Yes, and I think someone looked at it recently and decided it was not worth completing as it is. 20180504 10:43:18<+discordbot> LOL 20180504 10:43:38<+discordbot> so after 6 years you guys finally decided to ditch it whole? 20180504 10:44:01<+discordbot> It became abandoned not long after its development began. 20180504 10:44:21<+discordbot> One of the two people working on it just vanished and the other had more pressing projects to work on. 20180504 10:44:46<+discordbot> It wasn't a thing "we" were working on, just those two people who happened to be mainline developers. 20180504 10:45:08<+discordbot> i see 20180504 10:45:09<+discordbot> Likewise, IftU and AtS are not "our" project even though I am a mainline developer. 20180504 10:45:28<+discordbot> what are iftu and ats for? 20180504 10:45:39<+discordbot> is that UMC invasion from unknown 20180504 10:45:51<+discordbot> Invasion from the Unknown and After the Storm, yes. 20180504 10:46:55<+discordbot> thats cool campaigh tho I like the art and post apocalyptic sci-fic feel 20180504 10:48:26<+discordbot> I played at least two of the drake UMC campaign and tbh maybe they have potential 20180504 10:49:14<+discordbot> just not sure if the original creator still active tho 20180504 10:49:19<+discordbot> 🤔 20180504 10:49:41<+discordbot> how many UMCs have the wesnoth project lost over the past 2 decades? 20180504 10:53:09<+discordbot> Probably a lot. Back in the day I tried tracking down one that had a few mentions scattered around in the wiki, I could never find it. 20180504 10:53:40<+discordbot> Also, a lack of an active maintainer didn't really stop the team from mainlining AOI or DiD or Two Brothers before. 20180504 10:53:46<+discordbot> I still kept a copy of 1.08 and 1.10 to play some old UMC campaigns 20180504 10:54:24<+discordbot> there were some really good ones, but the creators would simply leave over the years and cant keep their projects up to date when the game updates 20180504 10:57:39<+discordbot> is there any new history line page about the new mainline UD campaign? 20180504 10:57:45<+discordbot> I cant even find the old page lol 20180504 10:59:37-!- Marcgal [~m@2a02:a317:2241:7a00:41f1:93f6:a56f:6d0f] has joined #wesnoth 20180504 11:08:00<+discordbot> what does this determinsitic mode entail? 20180504 11:08:13<+discordbot> it says RNG yield same result after reload? 20180504 11:08:15<+discordbot> what that means 20180504 11:08:18<+discordbot> 🤔 20180504 11:08:37<+discordbot> does that mean you cant s/l lame the campaign? 20180504 11:09:23<+discordbot> wut da faq 20180504 11:09:37<+discordbot> northern rebirth 20180504 11:09:42<+discordbot> you guys remade the first mission? 20180504 11:09:59<+discordbot> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/231976805987385345/441919402250731520/unknown.png 20180504 11:10:32<+discordbot> It means that if you attack unit X and all your attacks miss, then reload a save right before the attack, and then attempt the exact same attack again, it will also miss. 20180504 11:10:58<+discordbot> In other words, with deterministic mode you have to at least reorder your actions if you want to save-scum. 20180504 11:11:07<+discordbot> 😂 20180504 11:11:16<+discordbot> no thanks I will leave dat box open 20180504 11:11:31<+discordbot> How much you guys have done to rework NR? 20180504 11:11:36<+discordbot> it looks total different now 20180504 11:13:27<+discordbot> The first 9 scenarios had a lot of work done by me 20180504 11:13:38<+discordbot> Though ironically not much changed in the first scenario 20180504 11:13:44<+discordbot> And you seem very surprised by it... 20180504 11:19:06<+discordbot> "not much" 20180504 11:19:16<+discordbot> the map became rectangular from square 20180504 11:19:27<+discordbot> you switched spawn pos with dat orc lord 20180504 11:19:33<+discordbot> 😂 20180504 11:19:46<+discordbot> I need to change a lot of tac to remove them I think 20180504 11:19:56<+discordbot> I really don’t remember doing that lol 20180504 11:20:00<+discordbot> Must have happened at some point 20180504 11:20:07<+discordbot> is there any change on Eastern Flank and the Showdown 20180504 11:20:27<+discordbot> these two are the most epic lag shit mission in wesnoth history 20180504 11:20:32<+discordbot> you literally 20180504 11:20:34<+discordbot> no S/L 20180504 11:20:37<+discordbot> No, sadly, I never made it that far 20180504 11:20:42<+discordbot> spend 6 hours to beat northen flank 20180504 11:20:42<+discordbot> oh 20180504 11:20:44<+discordbot> 😦 20180504 11:20:49<+discordbot> Though there were some bug fixes 20180504 11:21:01<+discordbot> By someone else 20180504 11:21:08<+discordbot> can you just halve the income for these orcs 20180504 11:21:10<+discordbot> Sigurdfdragon I think 20180504 11:21:39<+discordbot> maybe reduce some turn limit to balance the difficulty too 20180504 11:22:01<+discordbot> otherwise you inevitably end up with horde of dwarf laming on mountain vs orc spam 20180504 11:22:09<+discordbot> slowly get ranks and dwarf lords 20180504 11:22:12<+discordbot> maul them over 20180504 11:22:33<+discordbot> 6 hours later after thousands kill you done the stupid mission 20180504 11:22:40<+discordbot> 😂 20180504 11:38:30<+discordbot> btw 20180504 11:38:38<+discordbot> did you guys change some thing about peasant 20180504 11:38:49<+discordbot> I thought they used to able to rank a poacher 20180504 11:41:16<+discordbot> No, that'd be the Woodsman. 20180504 11:50:57<+discordbot> 🤔 okay 20180504 11:51:07<+discordbot> I think peasant isnt legit build in NR anymore 20180504 11:51:21<+discordbot> caz 2nd scenario you inevitably need chaotic units 20180504 11:55:33<+discordbot> I will just re and spam woodsman 20180504 11:55:43<+discordbot> anyone up for 1v1 tomorrow? 20180504 12:23:40<+discordbot> shit, I think the AI is smarter than before now 20180504 12:24:05<+discordbot> I planned to make more units, made a spam ready to push 20180504 12:24:19<+discordbot> they start to turtle and lame me with less units, pulling my eco down 20180504 12:24:36<+discordbot> I planned to push with less units when their base is empty 20180504 12:24:44<+discordbot> he suddently start to spam units and push me back... 20180504 12:24:47<+discordbot> 😂 20180504 12:26:55< Marcgal> really? 20180504 12:27:12<+discordbot> or maybe I am delusional 20180504 12:27:18< Marcgal> The anti-AI strategy to survive its wave and strike back no longer works? 20180504 12:27:25< Marcgal> hmm 20180504 12:27:30<+discordbot> but I think matt or someone else definitely made the AI smarter these years 20180504 12:28:09< Marcgal> if this usual defensive strategy no longer works... then aren't campaigns inbalanced nowadays? 20180504 12:28:32< Marcgal> I mean, usually AI gets huge bonuses to start gold & income... 20180504 12:28:51<+discordbot> The AI did improve considerably between 1.10 and 1.12. No idea about 1.14. 20180504 12:29:49<+discordbot> well last time I touch the game was only 1.10 20180504 12:29:56-!- gallaecio [~quassel@148.red-83-37-165.dynamicip.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180504 12:30:01<+discordbot> so I guess its reasonable to be stronger now 20180504 12:30:53< Marcgal> ugh i dont play much 20180504 12:31:01< Marcgal> but i played a bit 1.12 20180504 12:31:20< Marcgal> and never saw ai hoard gold 20180504 12:31:53< Marcgal> gotcha 20180504 12:31:53< Marcgal> https://wiki.wesnoth.org/AI_Recruitment#Aspect_recruitment_save_gold 20180504 12:32:16< Marcgal> Scenarios can configure the AI to behave this way 20180504 12:32:21< Marcgal> but it's disabled on default 20180504 12:35:00<+discordbot> It was going to be the default in 1.12 but it was disabled about 1 release before the start of beta (if my memory serves) because it had a much deeper impact than expected. 20180504 12:35:26<+discordbot> With it some scenarios became too easy and others too hard. 20180504 12:38:41<+discordbot> How come would some missions became easier with improved AI? 20180504 12:40:00<+discordbot> Holding the recruits in isn't always a good idea if the player is able to rush faster. 20180504 12:41:14< Marcgal> I didn't test this. But my intuition is 20180504 12:41:52< Marcgal> that hoarding gold by the AI is a horrible choice in single scenarios (like, if we play Isar or Basilisk against the AI) 20180504 12:42:03< Marcgal> It makes the AI too easy to beat 20180504 12:42:32< Marcgal> But it makes many campaign scenarios inbalanced in favor of the AI 20180504 12:43:27< Marcgal> Since the AI gets there large bonuses to gold & income and also the player is supposed to beat the scenario fast to save gold. 20180504 12:44:50-!- matthiaskrgr [matthiaskr@gateway/shell/panicbnc/x-ihchowyaftepsbvb] has joined #wesnoth 20180504 12:44:52-!- matthiaskrgr [matthiaskr@gateway/shell/panicbnc/x-ihchowyaftepsbvb] has left #wesnoth [] 20180504 12:53:01-!- gallaecio [~quassel@188.79.96.255] has joined #wesnoth 20180504 12:57:05<+discordbot> so AI doesnt become more tactical 20180504 12:57:38<+discordbot> but instead they follow some particular patterns to improve their behaviors which makes them OP/UP? 20180504 12:58:07< Marcgal> I have a question 20180504 12:58:22< Marcgal> https://wiki.wesnoth.org/WesnothBinariesLinux#Compiling_2 20180504 12:58:50< Marcgal> This page wants me to run "./configure --datadir=/usr/share/games ..." from the directory I extracted the tarball to 20180504 12:59:04< Marcgal> But there's no "configure" executable there 20180504 12:59:07<+discordbot> Well. That is horribly out of date 20180504 12:59:35< Marcgal> ah uh oh 20180504 12:59:38<+discordbot> You might prefer to check the INSTALL.md file in the source dir instead. 20180504 12:59:54<+discordbot> We've not used configure (autotools) since 1.10. 20180504 13:03:26< Marcgal> Thank you. 20180504 13:12:43-!- DeFender1031 [~DeFender1@89-138-91-7.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit [Quit: I'm not back now.] 20180504 13:15:54-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has joined #wesnoth 20180504 13:23:29-!- Bumbleboy [520b3a17@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.11.58.23] has joined #wesnoth 20180504 13:24:02-!- Bumbleboy [520b3a17@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.11.58.23] has quit [Client Quit] 20180504 13:41:35<+discordbot> Have the Steam release stats been posted anywhere? 20180504 14:11:00-!- Falcon` [falcon@ip248.ip-5-196-244.eu] has quit [Quit: I'll be back!] 20180504 14:11:11-!- Falcon` [falcon@ip248.ip-5-196-244.eu] has joined #wesnoth 20180504 14:34:09<+discordbot> <3lɛtʁ> Am I stupid for not figuring out how to play online? 20180504 14:36:49< Soliton> what seems to be the problem? did you register an account on our forum? 20180504 14:37:18<+discordbot> <3lɛtʁ> Soliton: Hey guess what I didn't. 20180504 14:37:49<+discordbot> <3lɛtʁ> Soliton: I couldn't find a register button directly on the website so my brain shut down. 20180504 14:38:31< Soliton> there are improvements in that regard on the way. so you're not that stupid i'd say. :-) 20180504 14:38:31<+discordbot> man I just thought I'd check this game out after a few years and wow it really has come a long way... its on steam and even has a discord server^^ I remember playing wesnoth in 6. grade and I'm 24 now 20180504 14:41:15-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has quit [Quit: mattsc] 20180504 14:57:19-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180504 14:57:25-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20180504 14:58:14-!- minzbonbon [~min@meta23.net] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 20180504 15:08:33-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has joined #wesnoth 20180504 15:19:02-!- minzbonbon [~min@2a02:1b8:10:22:216:3eff:fe7b:f338] has joined #wesnoth 20180504 15:50:34-!- minzbonbon [~min@2a02:1b8:10:22:216:3eff:fe7b:f338] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20180504 15:51:26-!- metaverse [~metaverse@unaffiliated/metaverse] has joined #wesnoth 20180504 15:51:36-!- minzbonbon [~min@meta23.net] has joined #wesnoth 20180504 15:54:47-!- hk238 [~nn@unaffiliated/hk238] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20180504 16:01:46-!- Marcgal [~m@2a02:a317:2241:7a00:41f1:93f6:a56f:6d0f] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20180504 16:29:21<+discordbot> <Российский императорский флот> oh damn 20180504 16:29:25<+discordbot> <Российский императорский флот> wesnoth is on steam now 20180504 16:29:26<+discordbot> <Российский императорский флот> thats nice 20180504 16:31:01-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has joined #wesnoth 20180504 17:15:16<+discordbot> well, that's what drew me back in (i.e. seeing it on Steam) 20180504 17:18:33<+discordbot> anyway, since yesterday I almost went crazy and today it isn't much better, could someone take a look and confirm that there's something wrong with how the text displays for me in 1.14 as compared to 1.12 (and no, it's not Windows's ClearText or scaling after all)? 20180504 17:18:45<+discordbot> https://frupic.frubar.net/36805 1.12 20180504 17:19:00<+discordbot> https://frupic.frubar.net/36806 1.14 20180504 17:23:36<+discordbot> it's a different font, for one 20180504 17:23:49<+discordbot> but yeah, there's some AA weirdness 20180504 17:24:21<+discordbot> phew, so I'm not going that crazy, I guess 20180504 17:24:28< Ravana_> from my experience changed font is most visible with ingame chat 20180504 17:25:04<+discordbot> which is weird since thats not even using the new rendering 20180504 17:25:17<+discordbot> any other ideas other than ClearText and font scaling to check before reporting it as a bug? 20180504 17:25:40<+discordbot> @Vultraz What do you mean? The title screen is GUI2 and uses Pango for text rendering. 20180504 17:25:46<+discordbot> The Windows thing is called ClearType, incidentally. 20180504 17:25:48<+discordbot> that was to ravana 20180504 17:25:53<+discordbot> ClearType* 20180504 17:26:15<+discordbot> I think we established before that SDL_ttf has issues with Lato @Vultraz 20180504 17:26:28<+discordbot> It looks great in Help 20180504 17:26:33<+discordbot> Uhhhh. 20180504 17:26:34<+discordbot> I've seen a few forum posts about font issues but I couldn't find it in the bug tracker 20180504 17:26:48<+discordbot> Does it? Because for me it seems to have completely different metrics in Help compared to everywhere else. 20180504 17:27:06<+discordbot> Not that I want to check right now because I've got two Wesnoth instances broken into the debugger. 20180504 17:27:08<+discordbot> https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/issues/1744 20180504 17:27:16<+discordbot> an example of text rendering issue on GH 20180504 17:27:17<+discordbot> Honestly I thnk it looks better rendered with SDL_TTF is better 20180504 17:27:28<+discordbot> Pango is weird 20180504 17:27:59<+discordbot> Fonts are weird 20180504 17:28:05<+discordbot> frontending is weird 20180504 17:28:26<+discordbot> I don't understand how people doing frontend can live with the fact that they are doing frontend 20180504 17:28:41<+discordbot> but I suppose they just don't think about it as much and that's how they survive 20180504 17:30:16<+discordbot> There's been a bug sitting in the pango tracker for 11 years about newlines not rendering on Windows 20180504 17:30:40<+discordbot> if more than one font family is given to certain functions 20180504 17:30:49<+discordbot> ...you're not exactly filling me with hope for my 'AA weirdness' being fixed 20180504 17:30:58<+discordbot> 😂 20180504 17:31:02<+discordbot> indeed 20180504 17:31:44<+discordbot> why couldn't the text just be a plain, bright grey Verdana or something like that on a black background? ;d 20180504 17:31:57<+discordbot> but then again, you'd have to render that somehow... 20180504 17:36:16<+discordbot> Just disable antialiasing and all issues will be gone 😛 20180504 17:37:29<+discordbot> and where could I do that? 20180504 17:38:10<+discordbot> Disabling antialiasing is so 90s. 20180504 17:38:41<+discordbot> I honestly can't understand how anyone would want to read jagged font shapes on an LCD screen. 20180504 17:38:58<+discordbot> I do, for one. 20180504 17:38:58<+discordbot> well, if they are AA'ed like above... 20180504 17:39:24<+discordbot> I'd rather have them jagged than looking like rescaled in paint 20180504 17:39:40<+discordbot> for whatever reasons, if jaggedness could be of any help 20180504 17:39:51<+discordbot> text will look a lot better at high DPI once we get that implemented... 20180504 17:40:13<+discordbot> 👀 20180504 17:40:13<+discordbot> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/231976805987385345/442017614143815680/unknown.png 20180504 17:40:24<+discordbot> Oh my god. 20180504 17:40:40<+discordbot> Look at that 9. 20180504 17:40:53<+discordbot> It looks like someone scribbled it using crayons. 20180504 17:41:06<+discordbot> I don't think my screen is high DPI 20180504 17:41:34<+discordbot> Vultraz come on stop being elitist. 20180504 17:41:51<+discordbot> I'm not in a position to spend a fortune on two high-DPI screens. 20180504 17:42:14<+discordbot> I wasn't being serious about disabling font smoothing, but if you still want to do it: http://www.intowindows.com/how-to-disable-visual-effects-in-windows-10/ 20180504 17:42:15<+discordbot> I like to believe my screen is DPI enough ;d 20180504 17:42:35<+discordbot> "Smooth edges of screen fonts" is the only box you need to uncheck (and indeed, the only one I have unchecked). 20180504 17:43:34<+discordbot> yeah, whatever it will be called in my language 20180504 17:44:30<+discordbot> "Wygładź krawędzie czcionek ekranowych" ;d 20180504 17:45:26<+discordbot> ...is that a language, or just pressing random letters? 😉 20180504 17:45:31<+discordbot> hey, it actually made Wesnoth texts look better 20180504 17:45:44<+discordbot> still weird, but better 20180504 17:46:03<+discordbot> I like to thing that it's still better than Hungrian 20180504 17:46:18<+discordbot> (Staram się myśleć, że to i tak lepiej niż Węgierski) 20180504 17:46:52<+discordbot> I don't see anything random about my language, I have no idea what are you talking about 🤔 20180504 17:47:38<+discordbot> hmmm some characters look half-bold now, though 20180504 17:47:52<+discordbot> like between normal and bold I mean 20180504 17:48:29<+discordbot> I'm used to how it looks. 20180504 17:49:23<+discordbot> I mean anywhere except Wesnoth it's ok, just not as smooth 20180504 17:49:39<+discordbot> in Wesnoth though it looks like some characters are bold and some are not 20180504 17:49:54<+discordbot> Curiously, I have it checked. I remember changing something a while ago 'cause my text was all blurry, but I have no idea what it was 20180504 17:49:55<+discordbot> https://frupic.frubar.net/36807 20180504 17:50:08<+discordbot> And now everybody hates on me for having no antialiasing :v 20180504 17:50:41<+discordbot> ("everybody" and "hates on" being kind of exaggerations 👀 ) 20180504 17:50:55<+discordbot> most people are indifferent, eh? 20180504 17:51:05<+discordbot> that's how it usually is with people 20180504 17:53:47<+discordbot> ...savage 20180504 18:03:37<+discordbot> ehhh, no matter what I do text in 1.12 looks at least ok-ish and text in 1.14 looks at least weird 20180504 18:03:40<+discordbot> I give up 20180504 18:04:12<+discordbot> wake me up when pango bugfest ends (could also be September) 20180504 18:13:27<+discordbot> heh 20180504 18:13:31<+discordbot> you'll be waiting 20 years 20180504 18:14:58<+discordbot> shhhh 20180504 18:15:09<+discordbot> at least I'll get a good sleep 20180504 18:46:17-!- claymore [~claymore@unaffiliated/claymore] has joined #wesnoth 20180504 19:06:55-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20180504 19:19:42-!- Marcgal [~m@2a02:a317:2241:7a00:38c3:3f55:95d6:1423] has joined #wesnoth 20180504 19:20:30< Marcgal> I'm sorry, I was talking about this, but I'll just talk again. It is most annoying that in the Lobby, the list of games AND the list of players all automatically scroll to the top whenever something happens. 20180504 19:20:59< Marcgal> Sometimes I can't even slowly scroll down to examine all games or users - it autoscrolls up. 20180504 19:21:25< Marcgal> Also, wrt the list of games, I want to have it scrolled DOWN, so that I can watch if any interesting games are created. 20180504 19:21:49<+discordbot> there there 20180504 19:21:58<+discordbot> it's ok, everything will be better 20180504 19:22:04< Marcgal> Is there any chance that these lists will not automagically scroll to the top? 20180504 19:22:40<+discordbot> idk, but judging by how often people complain about this I guess it's quite likely 20180504 19:23:22<+discordbot> Marcgal: There is code to keep the scroll position when new games start. I wrote it myself. 20180504 19:23:23<+discordbot> https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/19358294be01c2718d71abbde3b89eab3aba99ad 20180504 19:23:46<+discordbot> I guess there is some kind of corner case where it's not working, or a later change has broken it... 20180504 19:27:51-!- gallaecio [~quassel@188.79.96.255] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180504 19:29:14-!- Marcgal [~m@2a02:a317:2241:7a00:38c3:3f55:95d6:1423] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20180504 19:31:40<+discordbot> It’s working for me 20180504 19:31:49<+discordbot> It must be low resolutions again 20180504 19:32:09-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has joined #wesnoth 20180504 20:35:40<+discordbot> Font-scaling was removed from 1.14? 20180504 20:35:50<+discordbot> yep 20180504 20:36:14<+discordbot> fonts in general have been overhauled heavily which makes me sad because it broke them for me 20180504 20:38:16<+discordbot> The current Pango text rendering system existed in 1.12, but wasn't used much there. 20180504 20:38:50<+discordbot> What changes is that a large part of Wesnoth's UI was rewritten, and in the process, Pango is now used almost exclusively for text rendering. 20180504 20:38:59<+discordbot> *changed 20180504 20:39:44-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has quit [Quit: So long and thanks for all the fish.] 20180504 20:42:41-!- Marcgal [~m@2a02:a317:2241:7a00:5071:31a4:10e2:24ba] has joined #wesnoth 20180504 20:42:54< Marcgal> 1.14 introduced map zooming while playing 20180504 20:42:55< Marcgal> nice 20180504 20:42:56< Marcgal> but 20180504 20:42:57< Marcgal> ! 20180504 20:43:26< Marcgal> If I have "show grid" enabled (as I always have) 20180504 20:43:34-!- akis [~akis@p5DD73ADE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth 20180504 20:43:41< Marcgal> zooming the map in or out makes this grid flicker 20180504 20:44:11< Marcgal> in a not very visually pleasant way 20180504 21:03:01-!- akis [~akis@p5DD73ADE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20180504 21:06:19<+discordbot> Map zooming is new? 20180504 21:06:38-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20180504 21:06:43< Soliton> no. 20180504 21:07:13<+discordbot> Thought as much.. 20180504 21:23:42< Marcgal> Lobby, high CPU usage 20180504 21:24:53< Marcgal> I mean being in Lobby was eating a whole CPU core 20180504 21:25:10< Marcgal> it doesn't do that now 20180504 21:25:21< Ravana_> hide users list 20180504 21:29:21< Marcgal> I've run into a very weird situation 20180504 21:29:32< Marcgal> Ppl were able to see what I was typing 20180504 21:29:39< Marcgal> I was unable to see their responses 20180504 21:29:50< Marcgal> Nor was I seeing them moving their units 20180504 21:49:22-!- Falcon` [falcon@ip248.ip-5-196-244.eu] has quit [Quit: I'll be back!] 20180504 21:50:43-!- claymore [~claymore@unaffiliated/claymore] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20180504 21:53:31-!- Falcon` [falcon@ip248.ip-5-196-244.eu] has joined #wesnoth 20180504 21:55:16<+discordbot> I am surprised that so much users have trouble with this release. I've been using the dev build since 1.13.7 and even back then I didn't have much troubles. I wonder: was it similar with the 1.12 release? 20180504 21:56:25< Ravana_> I remember with 1.12 release people moved there slowly 20180504 21:57:22< Soliton> it's common for mp issues at least to only crop up if you get a lot of people playing. 20180504 22:08:44<+discordbot> Stress tests are good for that. 20180504 22:11:19<+discordbot> 1.14 got released on Steam, so that's quite a sudden flood probably 20180504 22:14:38< Marcgal> Well, I'm not from Steam 20180504 22:15:09<+discordbot> I, for example, sort of am 20180504 22:15:14<+discordbot> used to play a long time ago 20180504 22:15:17<+discordbot> Steam brought me back 20180504 22:15:44< Marcgal> Well, I've been very occasionally playing this for quite a long time 20180504 22:15:45<+discordbot> I guess there are many other people like that as well as people who genuinely picked up Wesnoth for the first time because of Steam 20180504 22:16:10< Marcgal> So very occasionally I've never learned how to play this properly and I still suck ;P 20180504 22:17:12<+discordbot> heh, so did(n't) I 20180504 22:17:51< Marcgal> However, getting my ass beaten in multiplayer is being interrupted by glitches ;( of the likes I described above >( 20180504 22:51:54-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180504 22:52:00-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20180504 23:08:04-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has joined #wesnoth 20180504 23:36:22< Ravana_> not sure if it is just bias of 1.12 showing games with password only when they have slots open, but seems that so many games have password now 20180504 23:52:57-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] --- Log closed Sat May 05 00:00:04 2018