--- Log opened Sat May 05 00:00:04 2018 20180505 00:13:56-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has joined #wesnoth 20180505 00:32:29-!- Marcgal [~m@2a02:a317:2241:7a00:5071:31a4:10e2:24ba] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20180505 03:38:57<+discordbot> Wha- woah, new main menu music 20180505 03:40:12<+discordbot> yup 20180505 03:40:16<+discordbot> brand new game theme by West 20180505 03:41:55<+discordbot> and a new campaign AND a Save-Scum-Proof mode 20180505 03:42:46<+discordbot> and a new GUI and QOL improvements and new terrains! 20180505 04:00:37<+discordbot> Is there a notification or something for when the host disconnects? My internet went down yesterday and I don't want the guy I as playing agains to think I rage quited the game πŸ˜… 20180505 04:08:18<+discordbot> What is that new campaign everyone is talking about? I do not see a new one o0 20180505 04:08:29<+discordbot> secrets of the ancients 20180505 04:09:21<+discordbot> I think I have seen that lady before though. 20180505 04:09:27<+discordbot> How new is it? 20180505 04:09:38<+discordbot> it was added some time in the 1.13 cycle 20180505 04:09:44<+discordbot> however, it was an add-on before that 20180505 04:10:39<+discordbot> Definitely played the non-mod version already. Probably because I always play the development build. 20180505 04:13:50<+discordbot> It's pretty neat so far, I'm on the graveyard mission when Ileft off 20180505 04:14:36<+discordbot> I find myself skipping multiple versions at a time because I don't bother to check for updates. I found out about the updates only recently because of discord 20180505 04:20:13<+discordbot> Urist, I don't think the game handles you disconnecting any differently than it does for you leaving 20180505 04:43:57-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180505 04:44:07-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20180505 05:24:01-!- celticminstrel is now known as celmin|sleep 20180505 06:24:51-!- metaverse [~metaverse@unaffiliated/metaverse] has left #wesnoth [] 20180505 06:47:07-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth 20180505 08:25:01-!- gallaecio [~quassel@188.79.96.255] has joined #wesnoth 20180505 08:28:34<+discordbot> Why i cannot host 20180505 08:28:34<+discordbot> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/231976805987385345/442241172937768960/IMG_20180505_112732.jpg 20180505 08:29:51<+discordbot> It's likely related to your "error validating data core" issue. 20180505 08:30:06<+discordbot> Unfortunately, we haven't been able to figure out how it's possible. 20180505 08:30:28<+discordbot> Thus, even if we came up with a fix, we can't test it. 20180505 08:38:25-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has joined #wesnoth 20180505 09:42:08-!- hk238 [~kvirc@unaffiliated/hk238] has joined #wesnoth 20180505 10:14:38<+discordbot> can you guys provide any hints about the new Northern Rebirth level 2 20180505 10:14:50<+discordbot> The old build and strat isnt even legit now atm 20180505 10:15:06<+discordbot> I tried to lame the two trolls and hold my home line 20180505 10:15:17<+discordbot> but found the undead are at center 20180505 10:17:06<+discordbot> the undead normally ownz the trolls tho but now they got mauled lol 20180505 10:20:56<+discordbot> the original undead pos now have some trolls 20180505 10:21:29<+discordbot> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/231976805987385345/442269589280391168/unknown.png 20180505 10:25:00<+discordbot> inb4 20180505 10:25:07<+discordbot> using somebody else's strats and builds 20180505 10:25:14<+discordbot> and not thinking of your own ones for campaigns 20180505 10:25:43<+discordbot> but you know whatr 20180505 10:25:49<+discordbot> i couldnt do that level anyway 20180505 10:26:08<+discordbot> Oh nightmare difficulty tho 20180505 10:26:23<+discordbot> I used to think its better to exterminate all of them together 20180505 10:26:27<+discordbot> so its easier later on 20180505 10:26:44<+discordbot> but you know what this is getting bit hard 20180505 10:29:27<+discordbot> what normal build should work is: you go 5-6 footie mix thug on left top, left bottom, lame the trolls with more hexes of output, till their boss get out and sacrifise output to kill the big trolls 20180505 10:29:50<+discordbot> and lame the easier lines on center to constantly rank your footies against skeletons 20180505 10:30:41<+discordbot> what they did in 1.14 (or 1.12, didnt touch it for ages) is: they moved the top middle skeleton to middle, and make its base connected to the rightmost center 20180505 10:30:55<+discordbot> but the right center boss became a troll, not a skeleton... 20180505 10:31:18<+discordbot> so the trolls are in pretty dominant positions right now and thus even pressed back the undead before you did... 20180505 10:31:22<+discordbot> πŸ˜… 20180505 10:32:00<+discordbot> now you dont have enough villages to regen 20180505 10:32:12<+discordbot> you get pushed by more hexes of trolls both left top and down 20180505 10:32:37<+discordbot> and the middle became bit more complicated 20180505 10:32:55<+discordbot> you got to bait trolls to sacrifise most their numbers vs bottom skeletons 20180505 10:33:05<+discordbot> (middle skeleton dies fast anyways) 20180505 10:33:18<+discordbot> and mow the rest in relatively fast turns 20180505 10:34:26<+discordbot> and because of the sux layout and arrangement of hexes 20180505 10:34:39<+discordbot> you dont get camerin's heavy fire support early on 20180505 10:34:48<+discordbot> its hard to press top left back 20180505 10:34:53-!- creel [6dc05a49@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.192.90.73] has joined #wesnoth 20180505 10:35:02< creel> hallo 20180505 10:35:03<+discordbot> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/231976805987385345/442272996993007617/unknown.png 20180505 10:35:04<+discordbot> They actually pushed me back 20180505 10:35:10<+discordbot> which is crazy 20180505 10:35:20<+discordbot> it normally doesnt happen in versions before 1.10 20180505 10:36:25< creel> i have a problem: i installed wesnoth and tried to join the official server, but it says i need a registered name. so i searched but couldnt find anything on how to rgeister my name. Can somebody help me pls? 20180505 10:36:39< Ivanovic> creel: you have to create an account on the forums 20180505 10:36:48< Ivanovic> that account is then used for the multiplayer server login 20180505 10:36:57< creel> thx for the help 20180505 10:36:58< Ivanovic> http://forums.wesnoth.org/ 20180505 10:37:28<+discordbot> make an acc on forum 20180505 10:37:36<+discordbot> and use dat forum acc to log in 20180505 10:37:50<+discordbot> its dumb rules tho because they want to "moderate trolls" 20180505 10:37:58<+discordbot> but just do it 20180505 10:41:16<+discordbot> @Rhike what I currently do is 20180505 10:41:28<+discordbot> I fast a non-fast footie on top left 20180505 10:41:37<+discordbot> caz its 3 turns you get camrin anyways 20180505 10:41:44<+discordbot> and get the village before trolls 20180505 10:42:02<+discordbot> then repeat lame trolls on camrin village with bottom adding pressure on 20180505 10:42:09<+discordbot> nice 20180505 10:42:12<+discordbot> also 20180505 10:42:18<+discordbot> sup flame smh 20180505 10:43:33<+discordbot> whats smh? 20180505 10:43:41<+discordbot> shake my head 20180505 10:43:48<+discordbot> nah I am retarded 20180505 10:43:49<+discordbot> Alright, @Flameheart has been warned because 'Bad word usage'. 20180505 10:43:51<+discordbot> forget that lol 20180505 10:43:58<+discordbot> lol 20180505 10:44:05<+discordbot> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/231976805987385345/442275270683262988/unknown.png 20180505 10:44:05<+discordbot> basically 20180505 10:44:11<+discordbot> I think this is the hard part 20180505 10:44:22<+discordbot> in the new version, you end up having more hexes to hold trolls 20180505 10:44:29<+discordbot> lmaooo bad word 20180505 10:44:33<+discordbot> but most advantageous spots are the yellow ones 20180505 10:44:55<+discordbot> You either get fucked for too much troll pressure caz they regen+8 20180505 10:45:15<+discordbot> becaz now you actually get one or two less villa 20180505 10:45:19<+discordbot> I forgot...thats like ages ago 20180505 10:45:31<+discordbot> πŸ€” but definitely less villas you get 20180505 10:45:38-!- creel [6dc05a49@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.192.90.73] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20180505 10:45:54<+discordbot> so you end up either get pushed on the red line 20180505 10:46:06<+discordbot> best situation is to get the yellow line and maintain it 20180505 10:46:13<+discordbot> but not sure how to do tho 20180505 10:46:18<+discordbot> need more experiments 20180505 10:46:45< Ivanovic> why would the yellow line be the best? 20180505 10:46:56< Ivanovic> you won't be able to attack from the top right mushrooms 20180505 10:46:59<+discordbot> the red line has a villa right next 20180505 10:47:01<+discordbot> because on the yellow line 20180505 10:47:18< Ivanovic> on the red line of you have same amount of shrooms and the village 20180505 10:47:30<+discordbot> your footies get the hill, the mushroom x2, the flat ground, at 60% and 70% coverage 20180505 10:47:56< Ivanovic> but you can only attack from one of the mushrooms anyway! 20180505 10:47:58<+discordbot> while trolls only pressure you on cave terrians, which they have only 40% dodge 20180505 10:48:09<+discordbot> green 20180505 10:48:09<+discordbot> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/231976805987385345/442276300074254336/unknown.png 20180505 10:48:17<+discordbot> if you stay on the red, you see the problem here: 20180505 10:48:40<+discordbot> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/231976805987385345/442276426624925698/unknown.png 20180505 10:48:46<+discordbot> the trolls enjoy 50% on mushroom 20180505 10:48:56<+discordbot> i would stay on green 20180505 10:49:02<+discordbot> and dat spot is really hard for you to fight off RNG causualties 20180505 10:49:04<+discordbot> you're holding them off right 20180505 10:49:11<+discordbot> it's their defense 20180505 10:49:12<+discordbot> not yours 20180505 10:49:31< Ivanovic> and yeah, some units will die 20180505 10:49:33< Ivanovic> so what? 20180505 10:49:42<+discordbot> so the hexes will breach 20180505 10:49:50<+discordbot> AI tend to agress on taking off those hexes 20180505 10:50:00<+discordbot> its hard to take them back each inch you pull off 20180505 10:50:04<+discordbot> if bots take the spaces up like theyre supposed to be 20180505 10:50:07<+discordbot> my green placement is fine 20180505 10:50:14<+discordbot> what green placement was that? 20180505 10:50:19<+discordbot> scroll up 20180505 10:50:51<+discordbot> no, the green placement has one spot not legit 20180505 10:50:58<+discordbot> you left a hole open 20180505 10:51:05< Ivanovic> that is the whole idea! 20180505 10:51:08<+discordbot> thus allowing trolls to 3v1 on you at the mushroom 20180505 10:51:15< Ivanovic> surround the enemy and kill it more quickly 20180505 10:51:18<+discordbot> youre in a mushroom as padfoot 20180505 10:51:18<+discordbot> wtf 20180505 10:51:28<+discordbot> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/231976805987385345/442277135915417602/unknown.png 20180505 10:51:29< Ivanovic> because you surround the troll on that open one as well 20180505 10:51:35<+discordbot> yes 20180505 10:51:43<+discordbot> surround, as well as being surronded 20180505 10:51:55<+discordbot> if they move into that flatland, and attackyou on mushroom 20180505 10:52:10<+discordbot> its very possble your footie die vs 3 trolls in night situation 20180505 10:52:24<+discordbot> didnt have that happening 20180505 10:52:25<+discordbot> so I leave no holes open in the defensive at all to prevent that 20180505 10:52:33<+discordbot> the AI never attempt that? 20180505 10:52:38<+discordbot> no just rng 20180505 10:52:40<+discordbot> saves me 20180505 10:52:43<+discordbot> lol 20180505 10:52:46<+discordbot> πŸ˜… 20180505 10:52:48<+discordbot> RNG the god 20180505 10:52:49<+discordbot> shroom defense % is a lot 20180505 10:52:50<+discordbot> of wesnoth 20180505 10:52:58<+discordbot> everything live and dies 20180505 10:53:02<+discordbot> even the undead 20180505 10:53:09<+discordbot> but RNG lives forever 20180505 10:53:15<+discordbot> 🍻 πŸ‘ 20180505 10:53:48<+discordbot> whats wrong with the 3 hex choke above? 20180505 10:54:00<+discordbot> youre giving them a village 20180505 10:54:04<+discordbot> thats about it 20180505 10:54:12<+discordbot> but way less space to break through 20180505 10:54:23<+discordbot> you have a lot of heal issue on this level tho 20180505 10:54:40<+discordbot> older version doesnt have so many open spots for engagement 20180505 10:54:47<+discordbot> and wesnoth is so hell of annoying about heals 20180505 10:55:25<+discordbot> tbh this level 20180505 10:55:34<+discordbot> without dwarvs 20180505 10:55:42<+discordbot> is huge pain 20180505 10:55:54<+discordbot> caz trolls naturally better than thugs and footies in caves 20180505 10:56:07<+discordbot> they just repe +8 spam non stop and lame you so hard 20180505 10:56:20<+discordbot> that you want to break the PC for the trolls 20180505 10:56:55<+discordbot> what I am thinking is 20180505 10:57:22<+discordbot> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/231976805987385345/442278610750013440/unknown.png 20180505 10:57:42<+discordbot> if you somehow manage to sneak at least 5 footies on top of the middle 20180505 10:57:51<+discordbot> and survive reaching the empty troll base 20180505 10:58:01<+discordbot> you can kill that troll king np 20180505 10:58:08<+discordbot> trolls have bad defence on castles 20180505 10:58:17<+discordbot> but footies have 70% 20180505 10:58:30<+discordbot> its unlikely you die or maybe lose one or two of them 20180505 10:58:36<+discordbot> but given two rounds hes gonna die anyways 20180505 10:58:55<+discordbot> idk 20180505 10:59:07<+discordbot> this level is historically hardest among all missions tho 20180505 10:59:17<+discordbot> better try more tacs and see what fares the best 20180505 10:59:21<+discordbot> oh man 20180505 10:59:22<+discordbot> so 20180505 10:59:24<+discordbot> JESUS 20180505 10:59:30<+discordbot> the necromancer scenario 20180505 10:59:42<+discordbot> that orc and ice mission 20180505 10:59:43<+discordbot> dat 4th mission or 5th? 20180505 10:59:43<+discordbot> dude 20180505 10:59:46<+discordbot> i reloaded 20180505 10:59:49<+discordbot> like 20180505 10:59:51<+discordbot> ten times 20180505 10:59:56<+discordbot> so that the ghost wraith strat 20180505 10:59:56<+discordbot> works 20180505 10:59:57<+discordbot> which one was it 20180505 10:59:59<+discordbot> they kept missing 20180505 11:00:04<+discordbot> The one where you needed to cross the ice 20180505 11:00:07<+discordbot> and it has 20180505 11:00:10<+discordbot> 3 orc 20180505 11:00:13<+discordbot> 3 orc factions 20180505 11:00:15<+discordbot> oh you mean that one you play undead vs orcs 20180505 11:00:18<+discordbot> yes 20180505 11:00:20<+discordbot> that one is easy lol 20180505 11:00:23<+discordbot> normal pvp play 20180505 11:00:26<+discordbot> But 20180505 11:00:27<+discordbot> 1v3 20180505 11:00:29<+discordbot> In Descent into Darkness? 20180505 11:00:31<+discordbot> πŸ‘€ 20180505 11:00:31<+discordbot> Yes 20180505 11:00:38<+discordbot> doesnt grant you enough eco to lame trolls with mass ghost spam 20180505 11:00:45<+discordbot> but campaigns allow you to do that 20180505 11:01:01<+discordbot> they got like 20180505 11:01:02<+discordbot> archers 20180505 11:01:03<+discordbot> with fire 20180505 11:01:11<+discordbot> Whaddaya mean by "lame" 20180505 11:01:13<+discordbot> ghosts die in 1 hit 20180505 11:01:22<+discordbot> crossbowmen, too 20180505 11:01:28<+discordbot> fire archers are one of the weakest counters to ghosts among all same tier choices 20180505 11:01:42<+discordbot> yet ghosts die in 1 hit anyway. 20180505 11:01:46<+discordbot> (crossbwarks πŸ˜‰ ) 20180505 11:01:47<+discordbot> 1 turn 20180505 11:01:59<+discordbot> Unless you get good terrians 20180505 11:02:04<+discordbot> like that mission 20180505 11:02:07<+discordbot> ghosts dont really have protection 20180505 11:02:08<+discordbot> on terrain 20180505 11:02:09<+discordbot> you lame the orcs on ice 20180505 11:02:11<+discordbot> non stop 20180505 11:02:17<+discordbot> regen more than they can even dmg 20180505 11:02:21<+discordbot> the ice eventually breaks lol and you need to cross yourself 20180505 11:02:30<+discordbot> yeah thats the prob 20180505 11:02:38<+discordbot> I tried to zombie them tho 20180505 11:02:43<+discordbot> i tried 20180505 11:02:44<+discordbot> caz that works in pvp 20180505 11:02:45<+discordbot> EVERYTHING 20180505 11:02:46<+discordbot> What do you mean by "lame"? 20180505 11:02:52<+discordbot> lame means 20180505 11:02:57<+discordbot> i tried everything in the course of 7~ hours 20180505 11:03:01<+discordbot> mate 20180505 11:03:04<+discordbot> you use cheesy strat to exhaust enemies 20180505 11:03:05<+discordbot> then i looked up on wiki 20180505 11:03:11<+discordbot> oh, lol 20180505 11:03:14<+discordbot> its hard to explain 20180505 11:03:14<+discordbot> and wraith spam to assassinate leaders 20180505 11:03:16<+discordbot> is a bit legit 20180505 11:03:17<+discordbot> just a bit 20180505 11:03:18<+discordbot> more like lame is lame 20180505 11:03:19<+discordbot> so i went back 20180505 11:03:23<+discordbot> to the first mission 20180505 11:03:25<+discordbot> its just...laming them 20180505 11:03:27<+discordbot> and farmed the wraiths 20180505 11:03:27<+discordbot> πŸ˜… 20180505 11:03:34<+discordbot> wraith as in 20180505 11:03:37<+discordbot> the backstab kind 20180505 11:03:42<+discordbot> that took me 20180505 11:03:45<+discordbot> such a long time 20180505 11:03:48<+discordbot> and i had to save scum 20180505 11:03:50<+discordbot> when they missed 20180505 11:03:52<+discordbot> a lot 20180505 11:04:04<+discordbot> i could not manfight that mission at all. 20180505 11:04:14<+discordbot> what is that exact mission 20180505 11:04:18<+discordbot> I think its the undead one 20180505 11:04:25<+discordbot> let me try it on nightmare 20180505 11:04:27<+discordbot> literal 1v3 with your leaders going across the map. 20180505 11:04:28<+discordbot> I give you rep 20180505 11:04:36<+discordbot> one sec. 20180505 11:04:56<+discordbot> wait so 20180505 11:05:00<+discordbot> that mission no recalls? 20180505 11:05:02<+discordbot> or what 20180505 11:05:29<+discordbot> There are recalls 20180505 11:05:30<+discordbot> πŸ‘€ 20180505 11:05:42<+discordbot> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/231976805987385345/442280712226340864/unknown.png 20180505 11:05:45<+discordbot> yeah but some players dont use them 20180505 11:05:49<+discordbot> @Flameheart 20180505 11:05:49<+discordbot> this one 20180505 11:05:55<+discordbot> πŸ€” great 20180505 11:06:04<+discordbot> 4 20180505 11:06:11<+discordbot> I will do dat ud one right after I finish off this shit 20180505 11:06:19<+discordbot> I think the new map 20180505 11:06:24<+discordbot> probably need some studies 20180505 11:06:28<+discordbot> with map editor 20180505 11:07:01<+discordbot> I think 20180505 11:07:08<+discordbot> hardest mainline missions 20180505 11:07:11<+discordbot> historically 20180505 11:07:20<+discordbot> i completed DiD with like massive savescumming on the 4th and a bit in later missions 20180505 11:07:39<+discordbot> 2nd diff 20180505 11:07:44<+discordbot> are the NR 2nd one, and Wesmere you fight with humans off 5 orcs one, and some one of the UTBS 20180505 11:07:54<+discordbot> lol 20180505 11:07:58<+discordbot> S/L god tacs 20180505 11:08:14<+discordbot> in UTBS I think there was one mission 20180505 11:08:22<+discordbot> you get out of a cave because of flood 20180505 11:08:30<+discordbot> then suddenly get assaulted by ghosts 20180505 11:08:33<+discordbot> and humans combined 20180505 11:08:36<+discordbot> dat one is hard 20180505 11:08:38<+discordbot> is unreal 20180505 11:08:42<+discordbot> on nightmare difficulty 20180505 11:08:49<+discordbot> its depressing to have enjoyed the campaign for that long and just BAM the hardest mission youve ever seen 20180505 11:08:59<+discordbot> and it takes you days 20180505 11:08:59<+discordbot> yeah crazy 20180505 11:09:04<+discordbot> most balanced campaigns 20180505 11:09:11<+discordbot> might be son of the black eye 20180505 11:09:11<+discordbot> i really liked thurgasan 20180505 11:09:18<+discordbot> that orc one is pretty balanced in general 20180505 11:09:23<+discordbot> you normally can win 20180505 11:09:28<+discordbot> with linear strats 20180505 11:09:30<+discordbot> o 20180505 11:09:32<+discordbot> either numbers 20180505 11:09:34<+discordbot> the rebel one 20180505 11:09:36<+discordbot> or tactical pressure 20180505 11:09:37<+discordbot> πŸ’¦ 20180505 11:09:44<+discordbot> so good 20180505 11:09:56<+discordbot> some campaigns that require you to simply lame a hell lot isnt really good 20180505 11:09:59<+discordbot> stealth mission is easy over time 20180505 11:10:08<+discordbot> as you get better at it 20180505 11:10:14<+discordbot> the elf missions 20180505 11:10:20<+discordbot> are cheesy are crazy 20180505 11:10:37<+discordbot> you mostly trade enemies in forests and rely on heal spam 20180505 11:10:56<+discordbot> oh btw 20180505 11:11:22<+discordbot> @Rhike did you try the route of going with the outlaws in South Guard 20180505 11:11:26<+discordbot> that campaign 20180505 11:11:28<+discordbot> is a full lulz 20180505 11:11:34<+discordbot> lol 20180505 11:11:39<+discordbot> it is supposed to be a noob level campaign 20180505 11:11:47<+discordbot> but this story line 20180505 11:11:49<+discordbot> south guard is my third fav after rebels and thurgasan 20180505 11:12:03<+discordbot> its really good tho 20180505 11:12:07<+discordbot> till you meet that outlaw 20180505 11:12:12<+discordbot> you team with elves 20180505 11:12:25<+discordbot> its easy af as it shouldbe 20180505 11:12:29<+discordbot> whats up 20180505 11:12:34<+discordbot> new here 20180505 11:12:36<+discordbot> you team with outlaws 20180505 11:12:39<+discordbot> try that line 20180505 11:12:43<+discordbot> its hell fucking hard 20180505 11:13:01<+discordbot> you gonna waste loyal units 20180505 11:13:03<+discordbot> by default 20180505 11:13:08<+discordbot> the enemy 20180505 11:13:17<+discordbot> RNG set ups give them invincibility 20180505 11:13:21<+discordbot> you never kill them 20180505 11:13:30<+discordbot> final level 20180505 11:13:33<+discordbot> you got no money 20180505 11:13:41<+discordbot> loyal units wasted 20180505 11:13:54<+discordbot> and you got most of your high tier units died finishing the final 3 missions 20180505 11:13:57<+discordbot> πŸ˜‚ 20180505 11:13:58<+discordbot> idk, not much I guess, Angel 20180505 11:14:09<+discordbot> I think the author who made south guard 20180505 11:14:16<+discordbot> just discord stuff 20180505 11:14:25<+discordbot> put a huge joke in the branch line 20180505 11:15:07<+discordbot> I think that's the branch I took as a newb actually ;d 20180505 11:15:09<+discordbot> wtf 20180505 11:15:15<+discordbot> i am 100% sure 20180505 11:15:17<+discordbot> i tried it 20180505 11:15:21<+discordbot> and seen their first mission 20180505 11:15:23<+discordbot> and was like 20180505 11:15:24<+discordbot> fuck that 20180505 11:16:05-!- gallaecio [~quassel@188.79.96.255] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180505 11:20:09<+discordbot> never 20180505 11:20:14<+discordbot> go with dat outlaw 20180505 11:20:24<+discordbot> you got date with a cute elf lady 20180505 11:20:27<+discordbot> get some sense 20180505 11:20:31<+discordbot> fuck dat outlaw 20180505 11:20:32<+discordbot> lol 20180505 11:21:13<+discordbot> @IRC and yeah @ivanovic you probably right 20180505 11:21:27<+discordbot> altho the green lines 20180505 11:21:36<+discordbot> give the orcs one mushroom to pull your legs 20180505 11:21:46<+discordbot> but the yellow line also seems not legit 20180505 11:21:55<+discordbot> you give trolls 4 caveran hex 20180505 11:22:02<+discordbot> thats also making it harder over time 20180505 11:22:07<+discordbot> I will just stick to the green line 20180505 11:22:45<+discordbot> bros before hoes! 20180505 11:22:54<+discordbot> idc about some elvish lady! 20180505 11:23:00<+discordbot> yep 20180505 11:25:00<+discordbot> most of the campaigns 20180505 11:25:04<+discordbot> your pvp build 20180505 11:25:06<+discordbot> is not legit 20180505 11:25:10<+discordbot> pvp build 20180505 11:25:13<+discordbot> most massive shit 20180505 11:25:19<+discordbot> is you random an orc 20180505 11:25:21<+discordbot> vs undead 20180505 11:25:30<+discordbot> you very likely make useless units early on 20180505 11:25:35<+discordbot> like assasins 20180505 11:25:40<+discordbot> thats my opinion tho 20180505 11:25:43<+discordbot> useless :GWfroggyBlobWokeThink: 20180505 11:25:55<+discordbot> i play orcs only because they got ranged poison 20180505 11:26:00<+discordbot> caz I love 3 assasin build when I get orcs 20180505 11:26:06<+discordbot> when I face some top players 20180505 11:26:08<+discordbot> and they got UD 20180505 11:26:13<+discordbot> Poison isn't good against stuff it doesn't work on πŸ‘€ 20180505 11:26:22<+discordbot> I was like "wut da fuck" 20180505 11:26:34<+discordbot> vs UD 20180505 11:26:38<+discordbot> you never use assasins 20180505 11:26:48<+discordbot> caz it useless vs anything 20180505 11:26:51<+discordbot> lmao yeah 20180505 11:26:55<+discordbot> forgot 20180505 11:27:01<+discordbot> just spam trolls no? 20180505 11:27:02<+discordbot> impact? 20180505 11:27:04<+discordbot> heal? 20180505 11:27:15<+discordbot> 13 gold????? 20180505 11:27:19<+discordbot> no, orc vs undead is hard topic 20180505 11:27:24<+discordbot> requires study 20180505 11:27:31<+discordbot> you get numerical advantage early on 20180505 11:27:39<+discordbot> but with games developments 20180505 11:27:42<+discordbot> i wish i was good at this game to make videos on it 20180505 11:27:49<+discordbot> the maintainence cost will choke you 20180505 11:27:54<+discordbot> undead can do zombies 20180505 11:27:58<+discordbot> constantly lame you 20180505 11:28:11<+discordbot> they two shot your orc with adept 20180505 11:28:14<+discordbot> and touch you 20180505 11:28:15<+discordbot> ooooh 20180505 11:28:16<+discordbot> every time i tried zombies they get spammed out with ranged 20180505 11:28:28<+discordbot> well you need to formation them well enough somehow 20180505 11:28:33<+discordbot> uh 20180505 11:28:38<+discordbot> two ranged is enough 20180505 11:28:38<+discordbot> in campaigns 20180505 11:28:42<+discordbot> zombies are useless 20180505 11:28:46<+discordbot> caz no lv2 20180505 11:28:52<+discordbot> and recall value=0 20180505 11:29:06<+discordbot> well 20180505 11:29:07<+discordbot> but pvp zombies are very strong choice 20180505 11:29:13<+discordbot> even OP 20180505 11:29:15<+discordbot> I doubt 20180505 11:29:18<+discordbot> vs orcs and humans 20180505 11:29:21<+discordbot> soullesses are nice to quickly spam zombies when you dont need xp 20180505 11:29:46<+discordbot> last hitting and getting not xp but a unit 20180505 11:29:52<+discordbot> Orcs vs UD is hard matchup 20180505 11:30:07<+discordbot> you need to constantly spam all three type of counters 20180505 11:30:10<+discordbot> when i use zombies i am like 20180505 11:30:13<+discordbot> i couldve had a skeleton 20180505 11:30:18<+discordbot> which actually survives for once 20180505 11:30:28<+discordbot> and has good atk 20180505 11:30:34<+discordbot> you dont very much need ske vs orc tho 20180505 11:30:42<+discordbot> ske axer or ske archer? 20180505 11:30:54<+discordbot> well melee 20180505 11:30:58<+discordbot> or 20180505 11:31:00<+discordbot> I normally use archer for the better defence 20180505 11:31:03<+discordbot> or ghoul 20180505 11:31:07<+discordbot> and use adept for output 20180505 11:31:11<+discordbot> yeah ghoul too 20180505 11:31:16<+discordbot> why would i use an undead over a ghoul mate 20180505 11:31:18<+discordbot> undead has way too many options vs orcs 20180505 11:31:25<+discordbot> but orcs rely on the three only 20180505 11:31:30<+discordbot> your fire archer 20180505 11:31:35<+discordbot> never fucking hit the ghost 20180505 11:31:38<+discordbot> is stupid 20180505 11:31:44<+discordbot> is killing your patience 20180505 11:31:58<+discordbot> orc grunt vs adept 20180505 11:32:03<+discordbot> for the better output 20180505 11:32:07<+discordbot> troll vs skeletons 20180505 11:32:10<+discordbot> but thing is 20180505 11:32:21<+discordbot> undead has lot of combos and lot of options vs troll 20180505 11:32:28<+discordbot> when they bank money 20180505 11:32:32<+discordbot> have you seen the amount of reses ghoul has 20180505 11:32:41<+discordbot> why walking corpse 20180505 11:32:58<+discordbot> caz zombies 20180505 11:33:03<+discordbot> have no maintainence cost 20180505 11:33:07<+discordbot> its cost is -0 20180505 11:33:12<+discordbot> any t1 units is -1 20180505 11:33:15<+discordbot> over 12 turns 20180505 11:33:25<+discordbot> your grunt actually cost 12+12=24 20180505 11:33:33<+discordbot> zombie still cost 8 20180505 11:33:48<+discordbot> thats the part makes UD crazy vs Northerners 20180505 11:34:13<+discordbot> you can eco, fast transition, lame, zombify 20180505 11:34:29<+discordbot> orcs can do is only keep the pressure on and reduce your relentless numbers 20180505 11:34:50<+discordbot> zombie can feed instantly 20180505 11:34:55<+discordbot> to any burst damage unit 20180505 11:35:05<+discordbot> and it can somehow 20180505 11:35:09<+discordbot> negate your weakness 20180505 11:35:12<+discordbot> fighting in the day 20180505 11:35:21<+discordbot> because UD normally pressure Orc in night 20180505 11:35:23<+discordbot> yeah thats the important part 20180505 11:35:26<+discordbot> Orc press back in day 20180505 11:35:37<+discordbot> for the less output buff UD has in night tho 20180505 11:35:49<+discordbot> and somehow troll may have fearless 20180505 11:35:49<+discordbot> why do orcs use day then? 20180505 11:35:55<+discordbot> because UD in night 20180505 11:35:57<+discordbot> is crazy 20180505 11:36:03<+discordbot> ske +6 dmg 20180505 11:36:05<+discordbot> what makes it less crazy during the day 20180505 11:36:08<+discordbot> is it 20180505 11:36:11<+discordbot> More chaotic than orcs 20180505 11:36:12<+discordbot> or what 20180505 11:36:19<+discordbot> because of the math I think 20180505 11:36:34<+discordbot> skeleton 7-3, adept 10-2 20180505 11:36:40<+discordbot> in night its 9-3 and 12-2 20180505 11:36:44<+discordbot> which is really massive 20180505 11:36:48<+discordbot> it can maul your orcs 20180505 11:36:55<+discordbot> like tearing thru a paper 20180505 11:37:08<+discordbot> but in the day it became 5-3 and 8-2 20180505 11:37:22<+discordbot> on the other hand, your grunt is 9-2, troll 7-2 20180505 11:37:34<+discordbot> day you lose 4 dmg per unit when undead lose 6 20180505 11:37:44<+discordbot> night you gain 4 dmg buff when ud get 6 20180505 11:37:50<+discordbot> so the 1v1 meta is 20180505 11:37:57<+discordbot> you use day time to take villas back 20180505 11:38:04<+discordbot> instead of wasting yourself in the night 20180505 11:39:06<+discordbot> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/231976805987385345/442289122166571019/unknown.png 20180505 11:39:12<+discordbot> anyway I found this line should be the legit holdoff 20180505 11:39:25<+discordbot> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/231976805987385345/442289190873595904/unknown.png 20180505 11:39:38<+discordbot> and this villa is also legit gain if you get the footies there soon enough 20180505 11:39:47<+discordbot> maybe need more studies in the center tho 20180505 11:39:51<+discordbot> πŸ€” 20180505 11:39:55<+discordbot> I think wesnoth is a game 20180505 11:40:08<+discordbot> worth maybe 4K hours playthrough 20180505 11:40:14<+discordbot> you spend 1K hours on missions 20180505 11:40:16<+discordbot> 2K on pvp 20180505 11:40:21<+discordbot> and 1K on UMCs 20180505 11:40:44<+discordbot> if you know how to make mods its even endless 20180505 11:41:37<+discordbot> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/231976805987385345/442289753904381972/unknown.png 20180505 11:41:43<+discordbot> this should be the most legitimate defense 20180505 11:42:10<+discordbot> the frontal pos are all caves 20180505 11:42:18<+discordbot> which makes it hard for footies 20180505 11:42:27<+discordbot> only your thugs love caves 20180505 11:45:53<+discordbot> lol 20180505 11:45:57<+discordbot> I spent 3k hours in tf2 20180505 11:46:07<+discordbot> still can't play half of classes competitively 20180505 11:46:25<+discordbot> wesnoth is harder 20180505 11:46:30<+discordbot> It's chess 20180505 11:51:30-!- claymore [~claymore@unaffiliated/claymore] has joined #wesnoth 20180505 12:09:32<+discordbot> wesnoth 20180505 12:09:50<+discordbot> I think I played at least 1000 games competetive 20180505 12:10:01<+discordbot> thats more than like 700hours already 20180505 12:10:09<+discordbot> camapaigns 20180505 12:10:12<+discordbot> maybe 1K hrs 20180505 12:10:18<+discordbot> UMC maybe 200 20180505 12:10:27<+discordbot> I never ever played a single MP game 20180505 12:10:37<+discordbot> I'm to afraid I'll suck balls deep 20180505 12:10:47<+discordbot> try it 20180505 12:10:51<+discordbot> you found tons of isar nubs 20180505 12:11:05<+discordbot> I think the meta of isar isnt changed much on MP server 20180505 12:11:19<+discordbot> isar? 20180505 12:12:24<+discordbot> I never even get to the point of strictly calculating strategies like you just did today 20180505 12:13:06<+discordbot> I am a pretty filthy casual that strategises like 'hm, there's a forest halfway to the enemy, I guess I'll camp a few elves there' 20180505 12:13:15<+discordbot> and that's about it 20180505 12:14:09<+discordbot> so I don't know the factions counters, I'd be making them up on the fly 20180505 12:16:57<+discordbot> I might easily overextend my army, overcommit to an insignificant patch of the map, to a unit type, to an unfavorable fight (or vice versa, back off from a fight I should take) etc. etc. 20180505 12:17:37<+discordbot> I'd say I'm strategy-aware, but not strategy-able ;d 20180505 12:18:01<+discordbot> well, aware at least sometimes, there might be a lot of things I would just miss altogether 20180505 12:23:09-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20180505 12:32:34<+discordbot> nah the game works more subtly than you could imagine 20180505 12:32:37<+discordbot> isar is a map 20180505 12:32:42<+discordbot> called Isar's Cross 20180505 12:32:51<+discordbot> because the map is so small 20180505 12:32:59<+discordbot> that you dont need to do much calculations 20180505 12:33:15<+discordbot> its pretty and maybe even most popular in MP server 20180505 12:37:19<+discordbot> LOL \ 20180505 12:37:27<+discordbot> @Vultraz dat new NR 20180505 12:37:36<+discordbot> is x10 easier than 1.10 now 20180505 12:37:39<+discordbot> πŸ˜‚ 20180505 12:37:53<+discordbot> indeed the pressure of healing is a prob caz you got more hexes to fend off 20180505 12:38:01<+discordbot> but you waste some units for better dps 20180505 12:38:12<+discordbot> it is easy enough to maul all enemy within 30 rounds 20180505 12:39:24<+discordbot> I am at rly dominant pos right now only around turn 16 20180505 12:41:12<+discordbot> I add tons of pressure on them with only like 18 units 20180505 12:45:44< Ravana_> after several hours of running, my bot crashed acting on delete_child user, index being 1-2 too high 20180505 12:47:15< Ravana_> off by one indeed 20180505 12:48:54<+discordbot> the crazy part is 20180505 12:48:57<+discordbot> NR level 2 20180505 12:49:00<+discordbot> now is easy af 20180505 12:49:02< Ravana_> unlike games, users have no id, so difficult to debug 20180505 12:51:52<+discordbot> its crazy. I got only 25 units and its yet too many 20180505 13:05:11-!- gallaecio [~quassel@188.79.96.255] has joined #wesnoth 20180505 13:24:49<+discordbot> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/231976805987385345/442315721544957952/unknown.png 20180505 13:24:49<+discordbot> lmfao 20180505 13:25:03<+discordbot> now this is no longer wesnoth hardest mission 20180505 13:26:27<+discordbot> gz even though I dont recognise it at all 20180505 13:27:47<+discordbot> the difficulty actually only makes trolls and undead trade each other faster 20180505 13:28:03<+discordbot> so I doubt it may be harder on easier difficulties tho 20180505 13:29:59<+discordbot> the loss is quite huge tho 20180505 13:29:59<+discordbot> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/231976805987385345/442317022194565122/unknown.png 20180505 13:30:02-!- hk238 [~kvirc@unaffiliated/hk238] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 5.0.0 Aria http://www.kvirc.net/] 20180505 13:30:04<+discordbot> if you dont S/L 20180505 13:30:13<+discordbot> roughly 1:2 for the trade 20180505 13:42:53-!- hk238 [~kvirc@unaffiliated/hk238] has joined #wesnoth 20180505 13:59:46<+discordbot> @Vultraz have you checked download stats on steam? Steamspy thinks 200k or more have added wesnoth to their libraries 20180505 14:01:34<+discordbot> and how many actually downloaded the game? :D 20180505 14:02:47<+discordbot> btw guys 20180505 14:02:49<+discordbot> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/231976805987385345/442325283996172298/unknown.png 20180505 14:02:50<+discordbot> I have a question 20180505 14:02:56<+discordbot> what does difficulty=hard mean here 20180505 14:03:06<+discordbot> I think I chose nightmare at the start 20180505 14:03:36<+discordbot> maybe the nightmare difficulty is in fact just hard but with another name in the choice list to make you feel better? ;d 20180505 14:08:34<+discordbot> It's internally identified as hard. 20180505 14:08:57<+discordbot> {CAMPAIGN_DIFFICULTY EASY "units/human-loyalists/spearman.png~RC(magenta>red)" ( _ "Spearman") ( _ "Challenging")} {DEFAULT_DIFFICULTY} {CAMPAIGN_DIFFICULTY NORMAL "units/human-loyalists/swordsman.png~RC(magenta>red)" ( _ "Swordsman") ( _ "Difficult")} {CAMPAIGN_DIFFICULTY HARD "units/human-loyalists/royalguard.png~RC(magenta>red)" ( _ "Royal Guard") ( _ "Nightmare")} 20180505 14:09:13<+discordbot> In particular, the flag symbol set when it's selected is HARD. 20180505 14:09:45<+discordbot> Difficult is normal 20180505 14:09:47<+discordbot> nice to know 20180505 14:10:07<+discordbot> Yep. It's that kind of campaign. 20180505 14:10:09<+discordbot> (and easy challenging) 20180505 14:14:34<+discordbot> okay 20180505 14:14:40<+discordbot> so royal guard is hard 20180505 14:21:35< hk238> I think it would be neat if resistances were composites of two numbers, a percentual resistance and a constant resistance, like for an example 20% piercing, 2 piercing 20180505 14:23:24-!- Rhonda [~rhonda@anguilla.debian.or.at] has quit [Changing host] 20180505 14:23:24-!- Rhonda [~rhonda@wesnoth/developer/rhonda] has joined #wesnoth 20180505 14:23:49< hk238> in addition to that perhaps you could have an additional random roll on damage such as +2 +1 +0 -1 -2 so that for an example 80% of attacks would deal ordinary damage, 14% would deal either +1-1 and 6% would then deal +2 or -2 20180505 14:24:26< hk238> the constant component of resistance would alter units defensive attributes with respect to number of swings per attacker 20180505 14:25:06< hk238> for an example you could have heavy infantry have 20% piercing resistance and 3 absorption, then attacking with bowman would be very inefficient, where as a horseman with charge would be much more effective versus the 3 constant reduction 20180505 14:26:22< hk238> these changes would then increase the complexity of the game somewhat thus also creating room for differentation between units, so you could have larger factions with meaningfully different units 20180505 14:27:00< hk238> though the randomness of damage wouldn't have a drastic effect in that respect 20180505 14:27:43< hk238> it would merely make units with low number of swings proportionally more reliable than those with high number of swings in combination with the constant factor for resistance 20180505 14:28:12<+discordbot> @Flameheart u tried 20180505 14:28:14<+discordbot> my suggestion? 20180505 14:28:17<+discordbot> DiD 4 20180505 14:47:32<+discordbot> No, I am tired 20180505 14:48:02<+discordbot> I think I will try an hour later 20180505 14:48:07<+discordbot> Need to take a nap 20180505 15:07:23-!- Roxon [56733c64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.115.60.100] has joined #wesnoth 20180505 15:28:00-!- Roxon [56733c64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.115.60.100] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20180505 15:44:11< hk238> I'm bored and need a creative outlet :< 20180505 15:50:31-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20180505 15:51:56<+discordbot> 20180505 15:52:46<+discordbot> ok idk but if you're bored anyway you can check that, I guess 20180505 15:52:47<+discordbot> https://deepdreamgenerator.com/ 20180505 15:53:00<+discordbot> tl,dr: give it an image and see it make it turbo wtf 20180505 15:53:28<+discordbot> idk if you have to register or something or if it's available at all 20180505 15:53:33-!- celmin|sleep is now known as celticminstrel 20180505 15:53:55<+discordbot> wat 20180505 15:54:01<+discordbot> looks like a screwed up site 20180505 15:54:13<+discordbot> ? 20180505 15:54:18<+discordbot> displayed ok for me in FF 20180505 15:54:50<+discordbot> ? 20180505 15:54:59<+discordbot> it looks like it lacks any design 20180505 15:55:01<+discordbot> and like 20180505 15:55:08<+discordbot> isn't available fully yet 20180505 15:55:43<+discordbot> idk about that yet, the algorithm itself has been around for some time now 20180505 15:56:12<+discordbot> but hk238 wanted a 'creative outlet', so I thought about that 20180505 16:09:47-!- m [~m@2a02:a317:2241:7a00:3c0a:d2b7:b828:b929] has joined #wesnoth 20180505 16:09:50-!- m is now known as Marcgal 20180505 16:10:31< Marcgal> Hmm. Maybe I'm n00b. (I know I am). But I've never learned how to play Knalgans. 20180505 16:11:27< Marcgal> For me, Knalgans have (a) dwarves, who are incredibly slow and are only useful on mountains; and (b) bandits, who are cheap, but otherwise outright bad. 20180505 16:12:14< Marcgal> I know that's not the case; a good player can play Knalgans to great effect; but I can't. 20180505 16:12:36<+discordbot> Anyone know if {MOVE_UNIT_FAKE} still exists and works? 20180505 16:13:50<+discordbot> Never mind. Found it. 20180505 16:14:02<+discordbot> I always have to ask right before I find them, though. 20180505 16:14:30< celticminstrel> Heh. 20180505 16:16:31<+discordbot> I can be a rubber duck if it helps 20180505 16:19:29<+discordbot> is anyone else experiencing lags if they open the "other games" tab in the new wesnoth version? 20180505 16:19:43<+discordbot> the place where you see who is online 20180505 16:19:50< Marcgal> yes 20180505 16:20:18< Marcgal> Wesnoth starts eating up a whole CPU core for me 20180505 16:22:16< Ravana_> yes, that list is cleared and refilled very often 20180505 16:23:30< Marcgal> Ravana_: If I may ask: Are there plans to fix it in the next few updates? 20180505 16:23:40<+discordbot> it gets so laggy you can't really browse and see who is in there 20180505 16:24:07< Marcgal> same here ... 20180505 16:24:19<+discordbot> from 10% CPU usage to 28% ish and sometimes jumps to 45%-50% 20180505 16:25:41< Ravana_> no idea, I don't do changes that require compiling 20180505 16:33:33< Marcgal> Why do I keep having connection issues 20180505 16:33:47< Marcgal> "connection reset by peer" today 20180505 16:34:17< Marcgal> not receiving updates from other players yesterday 20180505 16:42:31< hk238> :0 20180505 17:30:04<+discordbot> there are less languages in the 1.14.0, if the language is in 1.12.6 do you still need help tranlating it, or is it okay? 20180505 17:31:38< celticminstrel> Basically a decision was made to hide unsufficiently complete translations. 20180505 17:32:10< celticminstrel> There's probably a workaround if you want to try one of the less complete translations. 20180505 17:32:29< celticminstrel> But that does mean, yes, help is needed translating it. 20180505 17:34:42<+discordbot> also, translation statistics are tracked here: https://www.wesnoth.org/gettext/ 20180505 17:37:52<+discordbot> How players can help with translation? 20180505 17:38:01< celticminstrel> IIRC only translations with 80% (excluding campaigns) are shown in the language selection. 20180505 17:43:18<+discordbot> was The Hammer of Thursagan named like this deliberately to make the abbreviation spell 'thot'? 20180505 17:45:44<+discordbot> I'm fairly sure the campaign pre-dates that meaning of it. 20180505 17:46:09-!- sigurdfd [sigurdfd@dynamic-acs-72-23-110-196.zoominternet.net] has joined #wesnoth 20180505 17:46:38<+discordbot> hm, fair enough 20180505 17:47:04-!- sigurdfd [sigurdfd@dynamic-acs-72-23-110-196.zoominternet.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20180505 17:47:17<+discordbot> @Min0tavr I'm not exactly sure, but you can try posting in the Translations forum. 20180505 17:47:33<+discordbot> judging by google trends it's from 2013-ish 20180505 17:47:59< Marcgal> In ancient versions of Wesnoth Elvish Outrider had a white horse 20180505 17:48:07< Marcgal> He doesnt have a white horse now :( 20180505 17:49:44<+discordbot> awwww 20180505 17:49:51<+discordbot> it was my favourite unite 20180505 17:51:03-!- DeFender1031 [~DeFender1@89-138-91-7.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #wesnoth 20180505 17:51:27<+discordbot> @Pentarctagon nice steam pin. Any thought about maybe expanding it to include links to discord/irc etc to provide somewhere for folks to go for things other than bug reports? Maybe something along the lines of https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=627228#p627228 20180505 17:53:04-!- Marcgal [~m@2a02:a317:2241:7a00:3c0a:d2b7:b828:b929] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20180505 17:53:30-!- Marcgal [~m@2a02:a317:2241:7a00:3c0a:d2b7:b828:b929] has joined #wesnoth 20180505 17:54:10<+discordbot> I was thinking of creating a pinned FAQ thread, with that sort of info plus other things like adding Steam features, putting it on GoG, etc. 20180505 17:55:03< Marcgal> Hmm one thing... Since this game is on Steam... Shouldn't Steam accounts be honored by the multiplayer server? Same for Steam friends? 20180505 17:55:17< Marcgal> (or are they? I'm not playing on Steam, but I have a feeling theyre not) 20180505 17:55:52<+discordbot> they are not currently. 20180505 17:56:28<+discordbot> Agreed. FAQ thread would be good Was goign to suggest the same once you'd replied :) 20180505 17:56:32<+discordbot> it is something that's been discussed, and is something we'd like to add, but how or when is still up in the air. 20180505 17:56:37<+discordbot> Happy to help write it. 20180505 17:56:54<+discordbot> thanks πŸ˜ƒ 20180505 17:57:20<+discordbot> I'll write up what I have probably some time today 20180505 17:57:26<+discordbot> Noice. 20180505 18:00:08< celticminstrel> What was that about thot... o.o 20180505 18:00:12<+discordbot> feel free to let me know anything you think should be added before I put it up though though 20180505 18:00:14< celticminstrel> It's not a word, right? 20180505 18:00:28<+discordbot> well... 20180505 18:00:46<+discordbot> the first link if you google it is UrbanDictionary 20180505 18:00:51<+discordbot> does that count? 20180505 18:00:52<+discordbot> xD 20180505 18:01:03< celticminstrel> Dunno. 20180505 18:03:06< Marcgal> What is this "thot"... That's some kind of a new cuss word, right? 20180505 18:03:51<+discordbot> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/thot 20180505 18:04:57 * Marcgal clicks 20180505 18:05:01 * Marcgal reads 20180505 18:05:55 * Marcgal finds out he was right and thanks Pentarctagon for his link 20180505 18:11:33<+discordbot> it's not only on urban dictionary 20180505 18:11:33<+discordbot> http://www.dictionary.com/browse/thot 20180505 18:11:41<+discordbot> I guess it picked up quite well 20180505 18:11:59<+discordbot> lol 20180505 18:12:53<+discordbot> relatively popular because memes 20180505 18:24:19<+discordbot> Um, hello, would posting a problem be best here or in languages - english for example? I just joined the channel 20180505 18:25:45< celticminstrel> WTH 20180505 18:25:49< celticminstrel> That's awful. 20180505 18:26:08< celticminstrel> But I guess it's good to know nonetheless. 20180505 18:26:33<+discordbot> 1995–present. 20180505 18:26:40< celticminstrel> @Miyokari - In languages only if it's actually a problem with the translations, otherwise here. 20180505 18:26:56< celticminstrel> Or on the forums or github. 20180505 18:27:31< celticminstrel> IIUC the language channels on discord are mainly for translators? I could be wrong though. 20180505 18:27:55<+discordbot> Well, I will first try here, well, I decided to try the Battle for Wesnoth steam version and I have font issue. When comparing the game to my friends, this isn't how the font should look like. Problem is that in the long run it's bad for eyesight to run like this. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/148455976415133696/442384117146058752/unknown.png 20180505 18:27:55<+discordbot> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/148455976415133696/442384225971470346/unknown.png https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/148455976415133696/442387053301334026/unknown.png 20180505 18:28:11<+discordbot> I didn't have that with previous versions of Wesnoth though 20180505 18:28:44< celticminstrel> That kinda looks like no anti-aliasing? 20180505 18:29:07< celticminstrel> Which I think is something in system settings? Though it's possible for an app to override that probably. 20180505 18:29:30<+discordbot> How could I possibly fix the AA issue? 20180505 18:29:58< celticminstrel> I'm not sure how it could be fixed, sorry. 20180505 18:31:08<+discordbot> I was thinking that maybe it is font related in my system, but I have no idea either.. 20180505 18:35:46< celticminstrel> @jyrkive - Any idea about this? 20180505 18:37:01<+discordbot> We have thought about text rendering in the past. 20180505 18:37:15< Marcgal> Miyokari: That's not exactly pretty, but how can this be "bad for eyesight"? 20180505 18:37:19<+discordbot> The text looks like it's not using full hinting, even though we tell Pango to use it. 20180505 18:37:42< Marcgal> or is it @Miyokari, or how should I ping some1 in discord 20180505 18:37:59<+discordbot> Using the @ is correct. 20180505 18:38:12<+discordbot> Notice the font in the actual battle (the third screenshot), when you play with font like this for an hour or so, it's not the most pleasant experience 20180505 18:39:32< Marcgal> It's surely ugly & unpleasant 20180505 18:39:44< Marcgal> but how can this hurt eyesight? 20180505 18:40:22<+discordbot> staring at blurry text for long periods of time can cause eye strain 20180505 18:43:09<+discordbot> also it'd just be annoying 20180505 18:43:28<+discordbot> https://steam250.com/hidden_gems#app/599390/Battle%20for%20Wesnoth 20180505 18:43:48<+discordbot> nice 20180505 18:43:49<+discordbot> #92 20180505 18:44:38<+discordbot> IIRC fonts have been something of a persistent headache for some time now though 20180505 18:44:38-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has joined #wesnoth 20180505 18:44:53<+discordbot> All the eye talk aside, I guess no one know how to possibly fix the font issue? (Not meaning it in any mean way, was trying to fix it in several ways but I couldn't find any fix) 20180505 18:45:37<+discordbot> try to fiddle with clear type settings 20180505 18:45:39<+discordbot> and AA 20180505 18:45:55<+discordbot> it didn't help me much, but still better than nothing 20180505 18:46:03<+discordbot> Clear type settings? 20180505 18:46:14<+discordbot> search for it in the control panel 20180505 18:46:24<+discordbot> should be able to find it 20180505 18:46:31<+discordbot> For the record, the language channels are not exclusively for translators 20180505 18:46:31<+discordbot> (you're on Windows, right?) 20180505 18:46:36<+discordbot> Aye 20180505 18:46:39<+discordbot> I am on Windows 20180505 18:47:00<+discordbot> so if you search 'clear type' in the control panel it should find it 20180505 18:47:13<+discordbot> it should make the text a little less ugly 20180505 18:47:26<+discordbot> I mean it still is very ugly, but somewhat more legible 20180505 18:47:28<+discordbot> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/231976805987385345/442396921030508544/unknown.png 20180505 18:47:30<+discordbot> Sadly there is nothing like that :/ 20180505 18:47:35<+discordbot> oh. 20180505 18:47:59<+discordbot> maybe try searching for 'fonts'? 20180505 18:48:24<+discordbot> Yeah, it got me here 20180505 18:48:28<+discordbot> ok 20180505 18:48:29<+discordbot> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/231976805987385345/442397172592541697/unknown.png 20180505 18:48:42<+discordbot> wondering if I should just ask my friend to send me his fonts in case of it would fix BfW lol 20180505 18:48:59<+discordbot> on the left 20180505 18:49:08<+discordbot> adjust clear type something 20180505 18:49:17<+discordbot> clear type text 20180505 18:49:18<+discordbot> wait 20180505 18:49:22<+discordbot> You just fixed my issue 20180505 18:49:27<+discordbot> xD 20180505 18:49:30<+discordbot> nice 20180505 18:49:34<+discordbot> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/231976805987385345/442397445830344704/unknown.png 20180505 18:49:35<+discordbot> And it is as clear as it should be 20180505 18:49:39<+discordbot> it didn't go away as fast for me 20180505 18:49:47-!- Ipsilon [~Ipsilon@165.227.96.150] has quit [Quit: Goodbye.] 20180505 18:49:50<+discordbot> I had it screwed up for the whole day yesterday 20180505 18:50:04<+discordbot> but today it just automagically works fine 20180505 18:50:25<+discordbot> Thanks a lot for that! 20180505 18:50:29-!- Ipsilon [~Ipsilon@165.227.96.150] has joined #wesnoth 20180505 18:50:30<+discordbot> I'm glad I could help your eyes, though :) 20180505 18:51:00<+discordbot> Need to preserve them, have only two 20180505 18:59:11-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180505 18:59:17-!- janebot [~Gambot@unaffiliated/gambit/bot/gambot] has joined #wesnoth 20180505 19:30:34-!- hk238 [~kvirc@unaffiliated/hk238] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 5.0.0 Aria http://www.kvirc.net/] 20180505 20:19:43-!- gallaecio [~quassel@188.79.96.255] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180505 20:33:56<+discordbot> @Pentarctagon Nice one. After your explanations I'd have included more calls for 'if you've got experience and ideas in this area get in touch on the forum/irc", but thanks for doing that :) 20180505 20:38:29<+discordbot> A fair point, though that's why I put that near the top. It's an FAQ, not a call for contributors πŸ˜› 20180505 20:49:13<+discordbot> anyone up for a planewalker campaign? 20180505 20:51:04< Marcgal> Are AI moves calculated on hosts' computer? 20180505 20:51:34< Marcgal> I'm asking because I'd like to know if AI lags can be caused by low processing power of the hosts' computer 20180505 20:56:08< Ravana_> for sides that start as AI, yes 20180505 20:58:22< Marcgal> ty 20180505 20:59:39<+discordbot> I have always had a question 20180505 20:59:42<+discordbot> whoever developed this game 20180505 21:00:01<+discordbot> provided service' for the forum, downloads, mp server 20180505 21:00:13<+discordbot> this isnt cheap project 20180505 21:00:21<+discordbot> where did the money come from to fund wesnoth? 20180505 21:00:29<+discordbot> I didnt even see a donation button 20180505 21:00:43<+discordbot> the iOS port, mostly 20180505 21:01:10<+discordbot> so the money came from IOS version? 20180505 21:01:14<+discordbot> πŸ˜… 20180505 21:01:20<+discordbot> how? is it just the ads 20180505 21:01:26<+discordbot> I think the app must be free tho 20180505 21:01:44<+discordbot> the iOS port is sold 20180505 21:01:45< Soliton> no ads, the app costs some money. 20180505 21:01:49<+discordbot> it is not free. 20180505 21:01:58<+discordbot> the app version is not free? 20180505 21:02:06<+discordbot> wow thats a news 20180505 21:02:16<+discordbot> caz I heard wesnoth always been free 20180505 21:02:29<+discordbot> There has always been a free version available 20180505 21:02:44<+discordbot> does IOS version still cost money now? 20180505 21:02:54<+discordbot> yes 20180505 21:02:58<+discordbot> how much? 20180505 21:03:30<+discordbot> Ya know I actually never checked 😬 20180505 21:03:41<+discordbot> I leave that to our iOS team. 20180505 21:03:51<+discordbot> (which is basically @sinda ) 20180505 21:07:13<+discordbot> There was some discussion about adding a paid "supporter DLC" (I say DLC because that's the vector by which it would theoretically be delivered) to the Steam release that wouldn't offer any additional features besides a thank you banner in-game, the proceeds of which would go towards continued development, but we'll probably go with a Patreon instead. 20180505 21:07:28<+discordbot> Since we do want to allow people to contribute 20180505 21:07:39<+discordbot> And stuff like the new UtBS art does cost money πŸ˜› 20180505 21:08:13<+discordbot> I think 20180505 21:08:25<+discordbot> you guys can simply add a donation sec on the forum 20180505 21:08:30<+discordbot> like most indie games do 20180505 21:08:41<+discordbot> :GWfroggyBlobThonk: 20180505 21:09:14<+discordbot> There still needs to be a method by which the money can get to us πŸ˜› 20180505 21:09:24<+discordbot> Why didnt you actually do the donate shit before 20180505 21:09:30<+discordbot> i can say 20180505 21:09:31<+discordbot> for sure 20180505 21:09:36<+discordbot> hundreds of dollars wasted 20180505 21:09:41<+discordbot> that couldve been yours 20180505 21:09:46<+discordbot> Eh 20180505 21:10:04<+discordbot> We tossed around various ideas but we never really decided on one specific one 20180505 21:10:05<+discordbot> transferring money isn't that simple 20180505 21:10:11<+discordbot> And no one really stepped up to implement it 20180505 21:10:18<+discordbot> someone has to account for it 20180505 21:10:20<+discordbot> etc. etc. 20180505 21:10:44<+discordbot> you have to avoid getting accidentally screwed up by taxes 20180505 21:10:57<+discordbot> We have a corporate entity (Wesnoth Inc) that handles all that. 20180505 21:10:57<+discordbot> by international money transfers 20180505 21:11:01<+discordbot> oh ok 20180505 21:11:05<+discordbot> didn't know that 20180505 21:11:13<+discordbot> That's the "Board" part of my role πŸ˜› 20180505 21:11:21<+discordbot> Patreon maybe? Lots of people seem to use it idk 20180505 21:11:27<+discordbot> which country is it based in? 20180505 21:11:32<+discordbot> I mean legally 20180505 21:11:32<+discordbot> It's US-based 20180505 21:11:51<+discordbot> @O[A] Patreon is an idea we tossed around, yes 20180505 21:11:58<+discordbot> btw bro 20180505 21:12:00<+discordbot> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/231976805987385345/442433292260605963/unknown.png 20180505 21:12:06<+discordbot> how do you spread the lines in between the codes 20180505 21:12:12<+discordbot> they appear in a mess here 20180505 21:12:14<+discordbot> Use a sane text editor :/ 20180505 21:12:19<+discordbot> don't use Notepad 20180505 21:12:19<+discordbot> πŸ˜› 20180505 21:12:25<+discordbot> Notepad++, VS Code, something 20180505 21:12:26<+discordbot> hahahahaha 20180505 21:12:29<+discordbot> VS Code 20180505 21:12:31<+discordbot> best editor 20180505 21:12:33<+discordbot> I sort of remember there were some easier ways but forgoten 20180505 21:12:35<+discordbot> Speaking as someone who just came across the game through Steam and can't quite believe it's all free - a Steam DLC would certainly be the simplest thing for me to contribute with πŸ˜ƒ 20180505 21:13:01<+discordbot> that's how linux line breaks look like on Windows when someone doesn't know what's going on :D 20180505 21:13:04<+discordbot> (VS Code has a syntax highlighter for WML so I recommend that) 20180505 21:13:27<+discordbot> Notepad++ is nice but its interface is dated and it lacks Intellisense 20180505 21:13:30<+discordbot> >be indie devs >decide not to have a means of making money aside from some phone port >take more than a year to release the game on steam 20180505 21:13:35<+discordbot> fine for me 20180505 21:13:42<+discordbot> :GWchadThonkery: 20180505 21:13:47<+discordbot> I mean NPP 20180505 21:13:54<+discordbot> it's great in it's simplicity 20180505 21:14:01<+discordbot> @Rhike more then 10 years? 20180505 21:14:05<+discordbot> @Rhike for the record, we have done just fine with the money from the iOS port 20180505 21:14:05<+discordbot> ofc 20180505 21:14:08<+discordbot> btw 20180505 21:14:11<+discordbot> I got a problem 20180505 21:14:11<+discordbot> it's more than you realize, actually. 20180505 21:14:14<+discordbot> in DID 20180505 21:14:15<+discordbot> you couldve had more members 20180505 21:14:19<+discordbot> also yeah ty for reminding 20180505 21:14:19<+discordbot> do you get some bonus on first mission 20180505 21:14:23<+discordbot> i should get into mobile stuff 20180505 21:14:26<+discordbot> if you totally dont buy any undead troopers 20180505 21:14:41<+discordbot> I don't think so 20180505 21:14:44<+discordbot> shit 20180505 21:14:48<+discordbot> though the interaction in S6 is different 20180505 21:14:57<+discordbot> when Malin returns 20180505 21:15:37<+discordbot> I never deal with a single language for long, I never do 'deep' stuff, so NPP is enough for me, just about better than no highliting and no completion at all, but also extra light and the same for every language 20180505 21:16:24<+discordbot> @Rhike there are unfortunately a bunch of issue we've been having with the iOS port, the likes of which are not entirely easy to address. 20180505 21:16:26<+discordbot> @Flameheart lets make mainline so popular that they need detailed walkthroughs like AAA games 20180505 21:16:35<+discordbot> okay 20180505 21:16:46<+discordbot> but Sinda is trying 20180505 21:16:53<+discordbot> all mainline have detailed walkthroughs tho 20180505 21:16:57<+discordbot> yep 20180505 21:17:02<+discordbot> its a turn based game after all 20180505 21:17:04<+discordbot> its just unsure for me if they still have updated ones 20180505 21:17:05<+discordbot> easy to write guides. 20180505 21:17:11<+discordbot> after some campaigns got update 20180505 21:17:22<+discordbot> Anyway 20180505 21:17:42<+discordbot> The long and short of it is is that the project is doing fine financially 20180505 21:18:05<+discordbot> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/231976805987385345/442434818198994955/unknown.png 20180505 21:18:05<+discordbot> FUCKING DUCK 20180505 21:18:07<+discordbot> so 20180505 21:18:13<+discordbot> if you win the mission 20180505 21:18:17<+discordbot> with only 4 units 20180505 21:18:21<+discordbot> you get NOTHING? 20180505 21:18:29<+discordbot> same ending, just bit different dialogue 20180505 21:18:31<+discordbot> thats it? 20180505 21:18:33<+discordbot> It's a story change 20180505 21:18:35<+discordbot> πŸ˜‚ 20180505 21:18:36<+discordbot> slightly 20180505 21:18:37<+discordbot> like I said 20180505 21:18:43<+discordbot> in S6 when Malin returns the dialog is different 20180505 21:18:46<+discordbot> also 20180505 21:18:53<+discordbot> yeah but the mission difficulty carry gold nothing actually changes 20180505 21:19:08<+discordbot> feel free to submit a patch 20180505 21:19:20<+discordbot> a patch for wut? 20180505 21:19:33<+discordbot> wait...I kind of get the idea 20180505 21:19:36<+discordbot> if you think the special ending should give a bonus 20180505 21:19:42<+discordbot> if I fend them off with only 3 men 20180505 21:19:44<+discordbot> add it, and submit a pull request on GitHub 20180505 21:19:56<+discordbot> we'll consider it and if it's reasonable we'll add it 20180505 21:20:09<+discordbot> well its nearly impossible tho 20180505 21:20:19<+discordbot> 4 units 20180505 21:20:29<+discordbot> you want me to hold off the orcs off the bay 20180505 21:20:40<+discordbot> unless the RNG god bless you all turns 20180505 21:20:50<+discordbot> πŸ˜‚ 20180505 21:20:58<+discordbot> I will just spam stupid zombies 20180505 21:21:10<+discordbot> RNGesus favors you πŸ˜› 20180505 21:21:48<+discordbot> flame 20180505 21:21:51<+discordbot> youre gonna need 20180505 21:21:54<+discordbot> every last bit of coin and rng 20180505 21:21:58<+discordbot> for mission 4 20180505 21:22:22<+discordbot> having a lvl 2 malin is nice too 20180505 21:22:44<+discordbot> mission 4 ez 20180505 21:22:48<+discordbot> let me show you how to do 20180505 21:23:13<+discordbot> 🍺 πŸ˜‚ πŸ‘ 20180505 21:23:16<+discordbot> let me get some beer 20180505 21:23:23<+discordbot> Hi, I'm new to Wesnoth (though i did hear about it a decade ago I never got around to playing it). I have now played for 14 hours, and I'm really enjoying it. I see that there are a lot of interesting mods and stuff for it too, but does anyone here know if there is a mod or fork which makes it play more like Tactics Ogre/FFT, where your units are persistent and you have to capture them in the field, give them equipment, etc.?I would 20180505 21:23:23<+discordbot> really like to play something like that πŸ˜ƒ 20180505 21:23:26<+discordbot> yo 20180505 21:23:27<+discordbot> and get over with mission 1 with only 3 units first 20180505 21:23:30<+discordbot> I gonna beat this shit 20180505 21:23:35<+discordbot> with 3 units 20180505 21:23:38<+discordbot> no rng luck 20180505 21:23:42<+discordbot> πŸ˜‚ 20180505 21:24:00<+discordbot> @Theonian there's the Afterlife mod 20180505 21:24:03<+discordbot> not sure how similar it is 20180505 21:24:10<+discordbot> its an mp scenario iirc 20180505 21:24:13<+discordbot> can be sp iirc 20180505 21:24:29<+discordbot> or uh 20180505 21:24:31<+discordbot> hang on 20180505 21:24:35<+discordbot> btw whats the difference on lv6 there? @Vultraz 20180505 21:24:46<+discordbot> does that epic defence of 3 units win 20180505 21:24:47<+discordbot> @Flameheart if i remember correctly it's just different dialog 20180505 21:24:56<+discordbot> ^ 20180505 21:25:00<+discordbot> @Rhike Thanks - I'll check it out :D Do you guys know of any interesting/favourite forks or mods in general? 20180505 21:25:04<+discordbot> There's no gameplay difference 20180505 21:25:16<+discordbot> I've done it, it was mildly satisfying for what it's worth πŸ‘€ 20180505 21:25:20<+discordbot> yeah, but the dialog would say malin's sister would have died if you managed to hold off all orcs with no undead units 20180505 21:25:22<+discordbot> there's like 20180505 21:25:25<+discordbot> does that mean your sis wont appear 20180505 21:25:27<+discordbot> @Theonian Invasion from the Unknown and After the Storm are amazing but they're only on 1.12 for now 😦 20180505 21:25:28<+discordbot> a lotta mods man 20180505 21:25:29<+discordbot> on lv6 if you win? 20180505 21:25:32<+discordbot> since she died anyways 20180505 21:25:33<+discordbot> you can try them all 20180505 21:25:34<+discordbot> like 20180505 21:25:37<+discordbot> literally press on a mod 20180505 21:25:39<+discordbot> @Theonian TO Lands Unknown is pretty damn good and it's on 1.14 though 20180505 21:25:40<+discordbot> see if description is nice 20180505 21:25:42<+discordbot> and download 20180505 21:25:52<+discordbot> to lands unknown 20180505 21:25:53<+discordbot> is epic 20180505 21:25:56<+discordbot> dat graphics 20180505 21:25:57<+discordbot> Nah, she shows up and tries to kill you still 20180505 21:26:00<+discordbot> my fucking god 20180505 21:26:05<+discordbot> The eastern europe mod 20180505 21:26:06<+discordbot> is great 20180505 21:26:07<+discordbot> really dunno how he made it 20180505 21:26:10< Ravana_> TLU is the only campaign I have completed 20180505 21:26:13<+discordbot> praise inferno8 20180505 21:26:18<+discordbot> you guys try zombie apocalypse 20180505 21:26:21<+discordbot> that one is cool 20180505 21:26:23<+discordbot> @Vultraz Thanks! Will check! @Rhike Yeah, but that's precicely why I'd like some advice. There's heaps to choose from 20180505 21:26:23<+discordbot> quite long 20180505 21:26:27<+discordbot> well 20180505 21:26:31<+discordbot> you got plenty of time i think 20180505 21:26:31<+discordbot> like 20180505 21:26:33<+discordbot> inferno8 is god 20180505 21:26:33<+discordbot> years lol 20180505 21:26:36<+discordbot> dat guy 20180505 21:26:37<+discordbot> to try them all 20180505 21:26:41<+discordbot> is no human 20180505 21:26:46<+discordbot> try that magic era he made 20180505 21:26:52<+discordbot> full of crazy awesome shit 20180505 21:27:46<+discordbot> @Rhike Lolno. Have you got any idea how many games there are in this world? I'm not going to spend years looking for the good stuff, when I can get recommendations instead :p 20180505 21:27:58<+discordbot> theonian 20180505 21:28:11<+discordbot> true tho 20180505 21:28:12<+discordbot> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/231976805987385345/442437374270504990/unknown.png 20180505 21:28:14<+discordbot> wesnoth is worth just as much. 20180505 21:28:20<+discordbot> there were thousands of UMC on wesnoth 20180505 21:28:25<+discordbot> good ones may not be many 20180505 21:28:31<+discordbot> I played tons of shity campaigns before 20180505 21:28:39<+discordbot> Idle time, I hope 20180505 21:28:42<+discordbot> no 20180505 21:29:01<+discordbot> i played 6 hours a day 20180505 21:29:13<+discordbot> That's just fucked up πŸ˜” 20180505 21:29:18<+discordbot> No sry 20180505 21:29:24<+discordbot> i had friends with me 20180505 21:29:33<+discordbot> not real life friends necessarily 20180505 21:29:38<+discordbot> but i spent time with people virtually 20180505 21:29:41<+discordbot> so 20180505 21:29:44<+discordbot> ??? 20180505 21:29:53<+discordbot> nothing bad in that 20180505 21:30:02<+discordbot> I'm too lazy to whip out my time in Guild Wars 1 20180505 21:30:10<+discordbot> but something about 2000 hours 20180505 21:30:21<+discordbot> vultraz did you guys put a discord handle in the game? 20180505 21:30:24<+discordbot> how will the new bois 20180505 21:30:26<+discordbot> find out about it 20180505 21:30:28<+discordbot> Yeah, enjoy yourself. I just think it's a waste to spend so much time on TF2, when there are so many greta games to play πŸ˜… 20180505 21:30:40<+discordbot> i actually like 20180505 21:30:40<+discordbot> want to get good 20180505 21:30:50<+discordbot> yknow 20180505 21:30:54<+discordbot> not just sweep through it 20180505 21:31:25<+discordbot> anyway 20180505 21:31:40<+discordbot> how did the new guys find the discord 20180505 21:32:02<+discordbot> it was linked on the main page? 20180505 21:32:04<+discordbot> Google? 20180505 21:32:09<+discordbot> that's how I found it at lesat 20180505 21:32:11<+discordbot> least* 20180505 21:32:36<+discordbot> okay 20180505 21:32:37<+discordbot> btw 20180505 21:33:07<+discordbot> if you're remotely interested in why I spent 3k hours you can watch this 20180505 21:33:09<+discordbot> https://youtu.be/KuqImZKygvw 20180505 21:38:58<+discordbot> madar fakar 20180505 21:39:08<+discordbot> I nearly ranked malin to lv2 on first level 20180505 21:39:21<+discordbot> stupid casul crossbower shot me and force me to heal 20180505 21:43:59<+discordbot> fucking crossbow 20180505 21:44:47<+discordbot> ahaha 20180505 21:46:51<+discordbot> crossbows were despised in middle ages for similar reason actually 20180505 21:47:26<+discordbot> I think I had the same thing 20180505 21:47:29<+discordbot> like 20180505 21:47:29<+discordbot> i.e. knights, kings etc. got randomly killed by a crossbow bolt from time to time 20180505 21:47:41<+discordbot> and it was deemed unhonourable etc etc 20180505 21:47:42<+discordbot> orc crossbow is indeed weak tho 20180505 21:47:45<+discordbot> I kinda had malin only on one more kill 20180505 21:47:52<+discordbot> on second mission 20180505 21:47:55<+discordbot> as like most cases could easily find 20180505 21:48:08<+discordbot> you guys end up realizing Age of Heroes is imbalanced af 20180505 21:48:22<+discordbot> humans easily end up on top of any factions 20180505 21:48:25<+discordbot> wat 20180505 21:48:43<+discordbot> the tier 2 design for wesnoth 20180505 21:48:48<+discordbot> is broken 20180505 21:48:54<+discordbot> I doubt its imcomplete tho 20180505 21:49:08<+discordbot> you found some units massively OP 20180505 21:49:12<+discordbot> some strangely useless 20180505 21:49:17<+discordbot> Don't they cost more money 20180505 21:49:37<+discordbot> cost more, and more importantly maintainence cost more 20180505 21:49:38<+discordbot> I remember the sp00ky sword ghost costing 32 gold 20180505 21:49:46<+discordbot> in age of heroes 20180505 21:49:54<+discordbot> it is not 32 I think 20180505 21:49:56<+discordbot> it is 40 20180505 21:50:00<+discordbot> fuck 20180505 21:50:24<+discordbot> wesnoth's high tier design is not really balanced tho 20180505 21:50:37<+discordbot> some factions favor very particular type of units 20180505 21:50:39<+discordbot> like orcs 20180505 21:50:52<+discordbot> only orc grunt gain massive ranking bonus 20180505 21:51:16<+discordbot> crossbow is a very embarassing row 20180505 21:51:32<+discordbot> you sometimes find its dps/hp is lower than t1 units like drake burner 20180505 21:51:41<+discordbot> but huh wtf this is a t2 unit 20180505 21:51:44<+discordbot> πŸ˜… 20180505 21:52:08<+discordbot> and yep it costs just a little bit more than drake burner 20180505 21:52:15<+discordbot> Yeah 20180505 21:52:15-!- claymore [~claymore@unaffiliated/claymore] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20180505 21:52:22<+discordbot> only a bit 20180505 21:52:28<+discordbot> thats because the orc bow 20180505 21:52:29<+discordbot> on t1 20180505 21:52:37<+discordbot> require tiny bit of exp to rank up 20180505 21:52:43<+discordbot> so they had to nerf dat t2 a bit 20180505 21:52:49<+discordbot> and same does grunt 20180505 21:52:54<+discordbot> it requires hell lot more exp 20180505 21:53:01<+discordbot> so the t2 warrior is stronger 20180505 21:53:17<+discordbot> wesnoth tier balance is a very weird engima 20180505 21:53:23<+discordbot> Wesnoth balance overall 20180505 21:53:25<+discordbot> only thing this far I could agree 20180505 21:53:28<+discordbot> honestly 20180505 21:53:35<+discordbot> haven't seen more obscure balance 20180505 21:53:45<+discordbot> if you play pvp 20180505 21:53:45<+discordbot> just resistances thrown in cuz why not 20180505 21:53:53<+discordbot> you found some match-ups are very imba 20180505 21:53:55<+discordbot> damage types for factions too 20180505 21:53:59<+discordbot> undead vs knalgans 20180505 21:54:16<+discordbot> human vs drakes 20180505 21:54:19<+discordbot> Drake vs 20180505 21:54:20<+discordbot> Yep 20180505 21:54:25<+discordbot> But who wins there 20180505 21:54:28<+discordbot> drake vs undead isnt totally OP tho 20180505 21:54:47<+discordbot> leocrotta or dauntless proven it ages ago 20180505 21:54:53<+discordbot> because you can lame the undead adept 20180505 21:54:57<+discordbot> with drike fighter 20180505 21:55:03<+discordbot> you fly, and you actually move faster 20180505 21:55:08<+discordbot> I'd assume drakes win humans because of +chaotic 20180505 21:55:10<+discordbot> so they never actually can touch you in time 20180505 21:55:16<+discordbot> nope 20180505 21:55:18<+discordbot> drakes vs humans 20180505 21:55:26<+discordbot> is considered most imba shit ever 20180505 21:55:34<+discordbot> because drakes only have max 40% dodge rate 20180505 21:55:41<+discordbot> Horses 20180505 21:55:48<+discordbot> compare to humans 40% normal, 50% wild, 60% in castles 20180505 21:55:58<+discordbot> and drakes have -10% pierce armor 20180505 21:56:01<+discordbot> human spam spear 20180505 21:56:02<+discordbot> non stop 20180505 21:56:06<+discordbot> you have no answer 20180505 21:56:10<+discordbot> all your responding unit 20180505 21:56:15<+discordbot> doesnt do more damage than humans 20180505 21:56:18<+discordbot> and cost way more 20180505 21:56:19<+discordbot> against humans, I hear you are supposed to actually mass saurians 20180505 21:56:23<+discordbot> yeah 20180505 21:56:26<+discordbot> mass sau 20180505 21:56:31<+discordbot> is your build legit way 20180505 21:56:38<+discordbot> yeah why not 20180505 21:56:40<+discordbot> play chaotic 20180505 21:56:44<+discordbot> but thats still imba 20180505 21:56:46<+discordbot> caz sau 20180505 21:56:48<+discordbot> is fucking weak 20180505 21:56:53<+discordbot> you got tiny bit of hp 20180505 21:57:04<+discordbot> like only 2/3 of a spear and bow 20180505 21:57:06<+discordbot> for more cost 20180505 21:57:10<+discordbot> 15 vs 14 20180505 21:57:16<+discordbot> less dmg and less hp 20180505 21:57:23<+discordbot> only thing you enjoy is higher mobility 20180505 21:57:24<+discordbot> Free skirmish boi 20180505 21:57:28<+discordbot> which sux on most of the smaller maps 20180505 21:57:36<+discordbot> wot 20180505 21:57:42<+discordbot> you can escape a deathtrap 20180505 21:57:47<+discordbot> Any deathtrap 20180505 21:57:51<+discordbot> you escape 20180505 21:57:56<+discordbot> and humans press forward 20180505 21:57:59<+discordbot> take your villages 20180505 21:58:01<+discordbot> income spam 20180505 21:58:04<+discordbot> make more humans 20180505 21:58:06<+discordbot> and you dead 20180505 21:58:10<+discordbot> what people mostly do these days 20180505 21:58:18<+discordbot> is they mix drake dat spear guy 20180505 21:58:19<+discordbot> Yep but that's long term or something 20180505 21:58:20<+discordbot> and sau 20180505 21:58:26<+discordbot> whats the name of dat spear drake again 20180505 21:58:29<+discordbot> fucking forget it 20180505 21:58:31<+discordbot> clasher 20180505 21:58:33<+discordbot> ? 20180505 21:58:34<+discordbot> didnt play it for ages 20180505 21:58:37<+discordbot> ah thanks 20180505 21:58:42<+discordbot> yeah you mix clash with sa 20180505 21:58:43<+discordbot> drakes and elves are the most versatile, esp drakes with their magical shit 20180505 21:58:49<+discordbot> drakes vs elv 20180505 21:58:51<+discordbot> also broken 20180505 21:58:53<+discordbot> but not as much 20180505 21:58:55<+discordbot> kek 20180505 21:59:02<+discordbot> caz elves can be brutal 20180505 21:59:04<+discordbot> I'm talking about factions themselves 20180505 21:59:06<+discordbot> if your rng god 20180505 21:59:17<+discordbot> ah yeah tru 20180505 21:59:33<+discordbot> what I find hard is 20180505 21:59:40<+discordbot> if you find a good drake player 20180505 21:59:42<+discordbot> you get elf 20180505 21:59:52<+discordbot> is 2nd hardest shit you want to do in this game 20180505 22:00:07<+discordbot> second only by you get khalifa 20180505 22:00:16<+discordbot> khalifa totally cant play drakes 20180505 22:00:21<+discordbot> but I think 1.14 didnt add it tho 20180505 22:00:22<+discordbot> so w.e 20180505 22:00:29<+discordbot> dunefolk are added in 1.14 20180505 22:00:35<+discordbot> wut 20180505 22:00:36<+discordbot> but not in the "default" era 20180505 22:00:40<+discordbot> ah great 20180505 22:00:42<+discordbot> they are in "default+dunefolk" 20180505 22:00:54<+discordbot> I always think dat khalifate fac 20180505 22:00:58<+discordbot> is bit controversial tho 20180505 22:01:03<+discordbot> maybe politically wrong 20180505 22:01:04<+discordbot> lmao 20180505 22:01:05<+discordbot> the Dunefolk were added in 1.12 20180505 22:01:09<+discordbot> that's why their name was changed 20180505 22:01:12<+discordbot> to Dunefolk 20180505 22:01:15<+discordbot> yeah 20180505 22:01:15<+discordbot> But they were called the Khalifate then 20180505 22:01:16<+discordbot> and all the unit names were changed as well 20180505 22:01:18<+discordbot> but the names of units 20180505 22:01:20<+discordbot> and genre 20180505 22:01:21<+discordbot> wait what, there's a new faction? 20180505 22:01:25<+discordbot> gotta check it out 20180505 22:01:26<+discordbot> still largely mid east 20180505 22:01:27<+discordbot> why are factions unbalanced against each other still with 15 years in development 20180505 22:01:37<+discordbot> because balance is something 20180505 22:01:40<+discordbot> everyone get their own idea 20180505 22:01:48<+discordbot> and devs find it hard to change over versions 20180505 22:01:53<+discordbot> some of the factions are better balanced than others 20180505 22:01:58<+discordbot> human vs orc 20180505 22:02:00<+discordbot> most balanced 20180505 22:02:02<+discordbot> its classic 20180505 22:02:04<+discordbot> unmatched 20180505 22:02:08<+discordbot> human vs orc 20180505 22:02:12<+discordbot> I think human elf orc are all reasonably balanced 20180505 22:02:13<+discordbot> also the games I play longest 20180505 22:02:23<+discordbot> undead is also okay 20180505 22:02:25<+discordbot> caz neither can take significant enough advantage 20180505 22:02:26<+discordbot> what's unbalanced in knalgans 20180505 22:02:30<+discordbot> undeads are 20180505 22:02:32<+discordbot> Hit or miss 20180505 22:02:45<+discordbot> undead vs elf, drake, human, knalgan all have bit of problems 20180505 22:02:55<+discordbot> I wouldnt say undead is a well balanced fac tho 20180505 22:02:56<+discordbot> UD is a bit tricky to navigate 20180505 22:03:02<+discordbot> yeah 20180505 22:03:06<+discordbot> caz its tactics 20180505 22:03:07<+discordbot> is very 20180505 22:03:09<+discordbot> but I think they are playable (I am a little biased for them) 20180505 22:03:10<+discordbot> unusual 20180505 22:03:15<+discordbot> playable vs orcs 20180505 22:03:17<+discordbot> somehow OP 20180505 22:03:26<+discordbot> less competetent vs anything else 20180505 22:03:31<+discordbot> either mobility cant match 20180505 22:03:35<+discordbot> or dps cant match 20180505 22:03:50<+discordbot> I think wesnoth balance is largely based on a 3-hex scenario 20180505 22:03:58<+discordbot> Undead Warcraft 3 flashbacks 20180505 22:04:04<+discordbot> if one faction got solid chances to always 3 shot a unit 20180505 22:04:08<+discordbot> then this match up is OK 20180505 22:04:10<+discordbot> if it cant 20180505 22:04:18<+discordbot> then this match up is very likely imba 20180505 22:04:27<+discordbot> Dwarf guards 20180505 22:04:33<+discordbot> :GWdnzMonikaSmile: 20180505 22:04:36<+discordbot> I think guardsmen are considered UP 20180505 22:04:40<+discordbot> dwarf guards can be 3 shot by UD 20180505 22:04:45<+discordbot> thats just okay 20180505 22:04:53<+discordbot> people normally dont even make much of them 20180505 22:04:56<+discordbot> caz it sux otherwise 20180505 22:04:58<+discordbot> What even 20180505 22:05:11<+discordbot> poor me I rushed them to all ending villages 20180505 22:05:11<+discordbot> Rhike 20180505 22:05:14<+discordbot> try this buid: 20180505 22:05:17<+discordbot> you go online' 20180505 22:05:21<+discordbot> find some newb play 1v1 20180505 22:05:25<+discordbot> UD vs Dwark 20180505 22:05:47<+discordbot> you pick dwarf and spam tons of footpad, thief, poacher 20180505 22:05:54<+discordbot> and you can easily maul the undead player 20180505 22:06:02<+discordbot> and thats not even the easiest build yet 20180505 22:06:07<+discordbot> πŸ˜… 20180505 22:06:08<+discordbot> I consider ud dwarf the most unbalanced matchup in the history of gaming 20180505 22:06:13<+discordbot> Hodor Opening 20180505 22:06:18<+discordbot> Actually spam dwarf fighters 20180505 22:06:24<+discordbot> like 20180505 22:06:28<+discordbot> no need for anything else 20180505 22:06:31<+discordbot> Do 1 berserk 20180505 22:06:33<+discordbot> For adept 20180505 22:06:36<+discordbot> That's it 20180505 22:06:44<+discordbot> dwarf fighter also legit build 20180505 22:06:49<+discordbot> undead find it hard to counter 20180505 22:06:54<+discordbot> Ik 20180505 22:07:03<+discordbot> been there done that 20180505 22:07:05<+discordbot> easiest build people find over ages 20180505 22:07:12<+discordbot> they mass footpad and berserker 20180505 22:07:14<+discordbot> vs Undead 20180505 22:07:17<+discordbot> is extremely OP 20180505 22:07:27<+discordbot> footpad ownz anything else than adept 20180505 22:07:34<+discordbot> and berserker ownz adept 20180505 22:07:42<+discordbot> problem you have is 20180505 22:07:59<+discordbot> yeah that 20180505 22:08:02<+discordbot> adept+ghost end up cost more than footie+berserk 20180505 22:08:07<+discordbot> you get more numbers over time 20180505 22:08:10<+discordbot> and its gg 20180505 22:08:12<+discordbot> huh 20180505 22:08:14<+discordbot> Also 20180505 22:08:21<+discordbot> I mean 20180505 22:08:26<+discordbot> Why does footie win over ghost 20180505 22:08:29<+discordbot> ghost is kinda 20180505 22:08:35<+discordbot> evasive and shit 20180505 22:08:36<+discordbot> ghost is possibly the weakest lvl 1 unit 20180505 22:08:40<+discordbot> because footie is human 20180505 22:08:48<+discordbot> No he's chaotic 20180505 22:08:50<+discordbot> 20% arcane armor 20180505 22:08:52<+discordbot> :GWfroggyBlobThonk: 20180505 22:08:54<+discordbot> jk 20180505 22:08:58<+discordbot> and naturally elusive foot 20180505 22:09:02<+discordbot> 60%-70% dodge rate 20180505 22:09:07<+discordbot> okay 20180505 22:09:10<+discordbot> its like x1.5 higher than most units 20180505 22:09:14<+discordbot> Ghosts got Res too 20180505 22:09:15<+discordbot> Tho 20180505 22:09:19<+discordbot> so ghots barely do damage to footie 20180505 22:09:26<+discordbot> yeah but when you barely cant do damage to it 20180505 22:09:27<+discordbot> you lose 20180505 22:09:31<+discordbot> so its useless 20 cost 20180505 22:09:35<+discordbot> foot only 14 cost 20180505 22:09:40<+discordbot> and they mass numbers 20180505 22:10:40<+discordbot> 🀷 20180505 22:10:51<+discordbot> But 20180505 22:10:57<+discordbot> Don't ghosts counter zerks 20180505 22:10:59<+discordbot> I mean 20180505 22:11:00<+discordbot> Ye 20180505 22:11:03<+discordbot> It ends up being 20180505 22:11:05<+discordbot> 1 for 1 20180505 22:11:08<+discordbot> Adept and zerk 20180505 22:11:17<+discordbot> And the ghost ends up 20180505 22:11:22<+discordbot> A bit fucked up too maybe 20180505 22:11:28<+discordbot> if you look at the ghost as a unit stats-wise, it's not the worst 20180505 22:11:33<+discordbot> There's always a chance that 20180505 22:11:34<+discordbot> but you're paying 20g for that thing 20180505 22:11:41<+discordbot> They won't get adepts 20180505 22:11:45<+discordbot> at all 20180505 22:12:01<+discordbot> Am I correct in thinking that any lifesteal unit is gonna beat zerk 20180505 22:12:02<+discordbot> I had 20180505 22:12:05<+discordbot> Ghosts and bats 20180505 22:12:10<+discordbot> Beat my full hp dwarves 20180505 22:12:24<+discordbot> You could use bats yeah 20180505 22:12:29<+discordbot> against dwarves 20180505 22:12:38<+discordbot> Maybe the matchup isn't as unbalanced as I have thought 20180505 22:12:47<+discordbot> bats are good scouts but they won't scratch the fighters 20180505 22:12:55<+discordbot> I'm talking about berserker 20180505 22:12:57<+discordbot> sure 20180505 22:13:19<+discordbot> Good scout and zerk clear 20180505 22:14:38<+discordbot> I can't really answer your questions in great detail, I'm more of a campaign player than MP player 🀷 20180505 22:15:02<+discordbot> strategies for SP are rather different 20180505 22:16:09<+discordbot> I mean I heard the AI got better recently, right? :D 20180505 22:16:26<+discordbot> it does seem to play differently on 1.14 20180505 22:16:35<+discordbot> but not enough to make it significantly stronger 20180505 22:16:40<+discordbot> to me, at least 20180505 22:16:43<+discordbot> even though it was always quite neat as far as I remember 20180505 22:17:16<+discordbot> so as an example, I have a version of my campaign on 1.12 and 1.14 20180505 22:17:24<+discordbot> and it's about equally difficult on both 20180505 22:18:05<+discordbot> of course having a stronger ai would be interesting, but would probably throw off the balance of most add-on and mainline campaigns 20180505 22:18:15<+discordbot> lmao 20180505 22:18:18<+discordbot> AI 20180505 22:18:30<+discordbot> AI can choose to never commit mistakes ever 20180505 22:18:33<+discordbot> And you will never win 20180505 22:19:01<+discordbot> the AI always makes a ton of mistakes 20180505 22:19:06<+discordbot> currently 20180505 22:19:10<+discordbot> Yes 20180505 22:19:11<+discordbot> I meant 20180505 22:19:16<+discordbot> As an intelligent overall 20180505 22:19:34<+discordbot> Chess grandmasters get beaten 20180505 22:19:38<+discordbot> By a robot 20180505 22:19:49<+discordbot> Surely wesnoth is no exception 20180505 22:20:10<+discordbot> probably not, but of course we don't have the resources to implement the neural networks that they have 20180505 22:20:16<+discordbot> (Dota 2 has an unwinnable bot too now) 20180505 22:20:25<+discordbot> and it's a real time game 20180505 22:20:28<+discordbot> much more complex 20180505 22:20:32<+discordbot> Than something like wesnoth 20180505 22:21:16<+discordbot> I feel like Dota 2 can make a super bot more easily since they can just give it perfect aim and reaction time 20180505 22:21:41<+discordbot> yep, in dota it doesn't have to be that good strategically 20180505 22:21:50<+discordbot> if it's flawless mechanically 20180505 22:21:57<+discordbot> so it actually makes things much easier 20180505 22:22:20<+discordbot> maybe you're right but pros have 100% last hit rate and all 20180505 22:22:23<+discordbot> Like 20180505 22:22:30<+discordbot> It's a feat to beat them mechanically anyway 20180505 22:22:36<+discordbot> yes but bots have instantaneous reactions 20180505 22:22:41<+discordbot> they can do things that people cannot 20180505 22:22:47<+discordbot> and aim perfectly 20180505 22:22:50<+discordbot> maybe 20180505 22:22:52< celticminstrel> Whoa this channel has gone crazy now... 20180505 22:23:01<+discordbot> xD 20180505 22:23:08<+discordbot> yah there was some talk about balancing earlier, it always gets people riled up 20180505 22:23:10<+discordbot> that and RNG 20180505 22:23:23<+discordbot> come on we didn't touch RNG much today 20180505 22:23:38<+discordbot> An RNG thread has the most comments on the steam forum, ironically 20180505 22:23:46<+discordbot> Just up % 20180505 22:23:50<+discordbot> ^ πŸ˜… 20180505 22:23:52<+discordbot> Of everything 20180505 22:23:54<+discordbot> By 10% 20180505 22:23:56<+discordbot> Easy 20180505 22:24:14<+discordbot> (leave 0% in, it's nice) 20180505 22:24:42<+discordbot> But if we have 80% padfoots what will dudes without magic do? 20180505 22:24:56<+discordbot> pray to RNG gods 20180505 22:25:09<+discordbot> Well 20180505 22:25:11<+discordbot> I meant 20180505 22:25:14<+discordbot> Up % of hir 20180505 22:25:16<+discordbot> Hit 20180505 22:25:26<+discordbot> So everyone less % of cover 20180505 22:25:34<+discordbot> That's a better way 20180505 22:25:40<+discordbot> honestly the current system is okay 20180505 22:26:12<+discordbot> I could definitely see that 10% being the decider in whether the game is gonna perhaps be competitive or not 20180505 22:26:14<+discordbot> it would probably feel better for the player if the RNG output was a bit more "well-mixed", but that likely wouldn't be changed in 1.14 (if at all) 20180505 22:26:23<+discordbot> like 20180505 22:26:28<+discordbot> padfoot 60% res 20180505 22:26:36<+discordbot> That would technically make it less random though πŸ‘€ 20180505 22:26:42<+discordbot> which isn't necessarily a bad thing 20180505 22:26:43<+discordbot> yup 20180505 22:26:43<+discordbot> indeed 20180505 22:26:54<+discordbot> most players probably expect a pseudo-rng type thing 20180505 22:27:18<+discordbot> I wish for the % to be maybe lower but for the hits to stack on a given target 20180505 22:27:23<+discordbot> So when it hits 100% 20180505 22:27:25<+discordbot> It hits for sure 20180505 22:27:28<+discordbot> true RNG output is not at all what most people expect, so it likely throws them off when they encounter a 4 magical attack stretch missing 20180505 22:27:28<+discordbot> For one turn 20180505 22:27:41<+discordbot> heh 20180505 22:27:46<+discordbot> This was my idea for 20180505 22:27:49<+discordbot> At least 5 years 20180505 22:27:59<+discordbot> Also, if the goal is to actually make a balancing change, then the forums would be the place to discuss it. On here it'll most likely get forgotten and lost. 20180505 22:28:00<+discordbot> yeah, people usually don't understand probability 20180505 22:28:13<+discordbot> I'm personally not a fan of 100% hits at all 20180505 22:28:18<+discordbot> you could spin it this way 20180505 22:28:29<+discordbot> you have, say, an elvish shaman on a forest hex 20180505 22:28:37<+discordbot> and she's surrounded by some skeletons 20180505 22:28:45<+discordbot> maybe she has 15 hp and there are 2 skeles 20180505 22:28:51<+discordbot> if they had 100% to hit, she would be dead every single time 20180505 22:28:55<+discordbot> how can a mage who's been in 100 battles miss on a zombie 5 times???? 20180505 22:29:04<+discordbot> probability man, probability 20180505 22:29:07<+discordbot> but since there is a chance for them to miss, there's a chance your little shaman will live 20180505 22:29:19<+discordbot> she doesn't deserve tho 20180505 22:29:30<+discordbot> D: my poor little shaman 20180505 22:29:33<+discordbot> that's not how the world works 20180505 22:29:34<+discordbot> you see 20180505 22:29:41<+discordbot> people 20180505 22:29:46<+discordbot> you don't get random things because you 'deserve' them 20180505 22:29:55<+discordbot> you get random things because you were lucky 20180505 22:30:04<+discordbot> when someone dodges a 5 man gank, both sides feel bad 20180505 22:30:09<+discordbot> Not only the attacker. 20180505 22:30:20<+discordbot> That's the whole problem 20180505 22:30:25<+discordbot> Dodging something doesn't feel good 20180505 22:30:29<+discordbot> Because it's not skilful 20180505 22:30:36<+discordbot> You just rolled a dice 20180505 22:30:47<+discordbot> not me, I feel fine πŸ˜… 20180505 22:30:54<+discordbot> if you fail to get a random thing a few times in a row you don't automatically become more entitled to it the next to it 20180505 22:31:02<+discordbot> you are the little shaman, Yumi? :D 20180505 22:31:06<+discordbot> sure 20180505 22:31:12<+discordbot> I like having my units live 20180505 22:31:20<+discordbot> it shouldn't be true random then? 20180505 22:31:28<+discordbot> yah so that's a different argument 20180505 22:31:31<+discordbot> should wesnoth RNG be true RNG or not 20180505 22:31:49<+discordbot> it's not true RNG anyway, it's pseudo RNG actually :) 20180505 22:31:51<+discordbot> if you have a suggestion, the forum would actually be a really good place for it 20180505 22:31:56<+discordbot> true rng will always leave 1 in 1000 players very tilted and frustrated 20180505 22:31:58<+discordbot> well, as close to a true RNG as possible 20180505 22:32:04<+discordbot> very 20180505 22:32:20<+discordbot> well, you can't make everyone happy anyway 20180505 22:32:29<+discordbot> doubt 20180505 22:32:45<+discordbot> I would actually be in favor of an RNG that's a little more well-mixed 20180505 22:33:05<+discordbot> since true RNG is, as Rhike said, likely to be very annoying to play with 20180505 22:33:15<+discordbot> heh, what you probably mean is an RNG that's a little LESS well-mixed 20180505 22:33:48<+discordbot> so from the stats class I took 20180505 22:33:53< Ravana_> there are addons that change chances to depend on previous results 20180505 22:34:01<+discordbot> Yep 20180505 22:34:20<+discordbot> the prof. gave an example where if you had 50/50 1/0 output 20180505 22:34:27<+discordbot> very well-mixed would be 1010101010101 20180505 22:34:33<+discordbot> not well-mixed would be like 1000011110011 20180505 22:34:38<+discordbot> where you have large stretches of 1's or 0's 20180505 22:34:51<+discordbot> no, 10101010101010 would be terribly mixed by my definition :D 20180505 22:35:09<+discordbot> okay I'm going by the way we defined it in class 20180505 22:35:15<+discordbot> (I totally may have remembered it wrong) 20180505 22:36:10<+discordbot> hi i have a problem, i just installed bfw (steam) and i get this message Error validating data core. Details: Core ID: default The ID is already in use. Skipping the core. I've also installed some add-ons and they aren't visible either 20180505 22:36:36<+discordbot> i get that message when starting bfw and after leaving the add-on menu 20180505 22:37:16<+discordbot> if it went more or less 10101010 all the time then it would mean the random variable (the 1 or 0) wouldn't be independent from each others measurement 20180505 22:37:33<+discordbot> (as for the error I have no idea, sorry) 20180505 22:37:35<+discordbot> understood, we're on the same page but using different terminology 20180505 22:37:40<+discordbot> so I'll avoid that 20180505 22:37:43<+discordbot> yeah, probably 20180505 22:37:53<+discordbot> also I have a bot-like personality a bit, sorry 20180505 22:37:59<+discordbot> @BlackCobra009 Is it possibly this issue: https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=48061 20180505 22:39:03<+discordbot> Might be interesting to have a system where each player gets the same set of RNs, just mixed in a different order for each 20180505 22:39:29<+discordbot> not sure if that would actually make sense 20180505 22:39:47<+discordbot> you would just 'waste' good rolls pretty often 20180505 22:39:56<+discordbot> That's RNG tho 20180505 22:39:56<+discordbot> and trip on 'bad' ones pretty often 20180505 22:40:12<+discordbot> The point is to equalize the luck factor, not remove it 20180505 22:40:31<+discordbot> but it is already equalised 20180505 22:40:46<+discordbot> over so many rolls you have in a single game 20180505 22:40:57<+discordbot> That's technically arguable 20180505 22:40:57<+discordbot> the actual 'luck' difference is really minimal 20180505 22:41:02<+discordbot> Β―_(ツ)_/Β― 20180505 22:41:25<+discordbot> @Pentarctagon thanks, it certainly looks like that, since i am using onedrive too 20180505 22:41:25<+discordbot> its almost exactly the same as having the same RNs for both sides in different order 20180505 22:42:28<+discordbot> if you pick 100 numbers 1-10 with uniform distribution then e.g. their expected sum, variation of that sum etc. are quite 'fair' 20180505 22:42:52<+discordbot> I mean there won't be much difference between a sum of one 100 numbers and another 100 numbers 20180505 22:43:19<+discordbot> actually 20180505 22:43:19<+discordbot> There won't usually be much difference 20180505 22:43:25<+discordbot> πŸ‘€ 20180505 22:43:30<+discordbot> I'll script that and we'll see the results 20180505 22:44:00<+discordbot> IIRC you don't get really stable results from random systems until you're into at least thousands of trials 20180505 22:44:46<+discordbot> I'm guessing that players want to have more stable results within 10s-100s of trials 20180505 22:44:52<+discordbot> which isn't the case for random systems 20180505 22:45:24<+discordbot> Like 20180505 22:45:27<+discordbot> krecik 20180505 22:45:32<+discordbot> we're discussing pseudo rng 20180505 22:45:38<+discordbot> a script in powershell 20180505 22:45:39<+discordbot> 1..10 | %{(1..100 | %{Get-Random 10} | measure-object -Sum).sum} 20180505 22:45:44<+discordbot> well, quasi rng 20180505 22:46:03<+discordbot> 10 times does this: rolls 100 numbers 0-10 and counts their sum 20180505 22:46:11<+discordbot> 434 433 426 472 419 505 441 414 456 523 20180505 22:46:14<+discordbot> results 20180505 22:46:18<+discordbot> hm okay 20180505 22:46:26<+discordbot> that's not super even yet 20180505 22:46:47<+discordbot> (expected sum is 450) 20180505 22:47:12<+discordbot> i'll get more of those and put them into excel to see the variance etc 20180505 22:50:21<+discordbot> Note that this data will be different for different randomizers, too 20180505 22:50:22<+discordbot> :P 20180505 22:50:35<+discordbot> If you wanted to go for broke, use random.org 20180505 22:50:49<+discordbot> yeah yeah, but I suppose the .NET random generator will be good enough 20180505 22:50:53<+discordbot> IDK if it's free to get RNs in bulk 20180505 22:50:58<+discordbot> lol 20180505 22:51:55<+discordbot> depending on the size of the bulk 20180505 22:53:10<+discordbot> gah, I hate it when I get into shuffling numbers, making charts 20180505 22:53:18<+discordbot> and forget what was my point exactly 20180505 22:53:34<+discordbot> I've got a chart and no idea what was it supposed to represent 20180505 22:53:42<+discordbot> how many trials it takes to get a stable RNG output? 20180505 22:54:07<+discordbot> or like, when the average converges to teh expected value, possibly 20180505 22:54:36< celticminstrel> Hmmmm should I try a MP game for once... 20180505 22:54:41< celticminstrel> ^an MP 20180505 22:54:58<+discordbot> oh, right, I know, I wanted a histogram 20180505 22:55:00< celticminstrel> (I say "for once" but it's not like it'd be the first time.) 20180505 22:55:09<+discordbot> that's definitely what I got right now 20180505 22:55:35<+discordbot> You should 20180505 22:57:03<+discordbot> i just did some numbers stuff and with a samplenumber of 1000 times 100 numbers between 0-10 the standard deviation of the standard deviation is 0.13 lol 20180505 22:57:44<+discordbot> and the standard deviation itself is what? 20180505 22:58:34< celticminstrel> Somehow being told "you should" just like that kinda makes me not want to do it as much... >_> 20180505 22:59:00<+discordbot> I like playing against people 20180505 22:59:03<+discordbot> They're not AI 20180505 22:59:09<+discordbot> So 20180505 22:59:13<+discordbot> I play multiplayer 20180505 22:59:42< celticminstrel> Uhuh. 20180505 23:00:21<+discordbot> ok, an example of standard deviation I got is 29.3 20180505 23:00:31<+discordbot> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_deviation is faster than me tryting to explain it myself, not good with that 20180505 23:00:33<+discordbot> (for sum of 100 numbers 0-10) 20180505 23:00:50<+discordbot> I meant the exact number you got :D 20180505 23:00:53<+discordbot> not the definition 20180505 23:01:10<+discordbot> because you gave the standard deviation of standard deviation 20180505 23:01:27<+discordbot> but I guess it's around 29 since you said its own deviation isnt big 20180505 23:01:50<+discordbot> i did 1000 times, so i have 1000 deviation 20180505 23:02:08<+discordbot> [2.88862571, 2.82461898, 2.93107468, 2.84925471, 2.90381216, 2.78507095, 3.1979902 , 2.94379927, 2.85026568, 3.00782539, 2.9551036 , 2.98382386, 2.71728644, 2.60933903, 3.08506392, 2.8111163 , 2.71744319, 2.56361805, 2.74591592, 2.95989496, 2.94256517, 2.80461377, 2.97095072, 2.70073641, 2.8881766 , 2.74486134, 2.98434377, 3.02041771, 3.0074707 , 2.9031673 , 2.69287662, 2.86551983, 20180505 23:02:08<+discordbot> 2.97719365, 2.87676633, 2.86963502, 3.021509 , 2.85522235, 2.92534738, 2.82109761, 2.83609128, 2.85917508, 2.99059705, 2.79094091, 3.00510033, 2.86888574, 2.88813358, 2.92863297, 2.74810425, 2.6448568 , 3.17566607, 2.67497218, 2.90990292, 3.01867085, 3.00324163, 2.84440378, 2.75491158, 3.15429621, 3.0658069 , 2.75861517, 3.03542557, 2.88209021, 2.87791492, 2.61429652, 2.55126492, 2.7761611 , 20180505 23:02:09<+discordbot> 2.85704242, 2.9217762 , 2.44561148, 2.88719735, 2.78524027, 2.76794175, 2.72459522, 3.11260541, 2.79903289, 2.84152049, 2.8187793 , 2.93577633, 2.79036103, 3.02300733, 2.84979928, 2.81073952, 2.77557959, 2.95174463, 2.93728167, 2.89074294, 2.8010797 , 2.98315031, 2.98021121, 2.92003557, 2.65851412, 2.78616844, 2.80530997, 2.96347724, 2.84755895, 2.93995144, 3.04866982, 2.56927654, 2.75489196, 2.81806764, 20180505 23:02:09<+discordbot> 3.01711164, 2.9653608 , 2.93184619, 2.95545526, 2.96702555, 2.91071472, 2.98502718, 2.77454325, 2.91319712, 2.67132878, 2.73943432, 2.87836463, 3.23968247, 3.11694579, 3.12586314, 2.78780321, 2.87614295, 3.25589334, 2.79794234, 2.90724688, 2.68332132, 20180505 23:02:29< celticminstrel> Can we not paste giant lists into chat. 20180505 23:02:47<+discordbot> but nuuuuuuuuumbers :( 20180505 23:02:58< celticminstrel> I'm sure that causes problems even on for Discord users. 20180505 23:03:08<+discordbot> alright, i will keep it very short 20180505 23:03:12<+discordbot> actually discord just clipped it 20180505 23:03:19<+discordbot> or use a pastebin link 20180505 23:03:27< celticminstrel> If Discord supports file uploads or something I'd suggest using that instead, or a pastebin link. 20180505 23:03:29<+discordbot> right. that's better 20180505 23:03:45< celticminstrel> (Personally I'd prefer a pastebin, but I'm not the target audience here, so...) 20180505 23:04:33<+discordbot> tbh what I'd want from that is just the average I guess :d 20180505 23:05:45<+discordbot> (I'm getting 10 000 sums of 100 numbers 0-10 rn) 20180505 23:05:47<+discordbot> Gotta get the max, mean, minimum, and mode πŸ˜‰ 20180505 23:06:18<+discordbot> that would be needed if we wanted to question the generators randomness 20180505 23:06:40<+discordbot> well, maybe not needed but helpful 20180505 23:10:54<+discordbot> i did 100000 times 100 with 0-10 and the mean of the mean is 5.000284853292194 while the standard deviation of the standard deviation is 0.13063869479544576 20180505 23:11:29<+discordbot> ummm how did you get 5 from 0-10? 20180505 23:11:33<+discordbot> should be 4.5 20180505 23:11:46<+discordbot> 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 is 11 numbers 20180505 23:12:04<+discordbot> ahhhh 20180505 23:12:05<+discordbot> sounds like 1-10 20180505 23:12:22<+discordbot> i have done float, let me change it to int 20180505 23:12:27<+discordbot> back 20180505 23:12:29<+discordbot> sry 20180505 23:12:31<+discordbot> was afk@ 20180505 23:12:49<+discordbot> @Rhike @Yumi 20180505 23:12:54<+discordbot> what I think is 20180505 23:12:54< mattsc> No, 1-10 give an average of 5.5; average if 0-10 is 5. 20180505 23:13:12<+discordbot> ... 20180505 23:13:17<+discordbot> god it's late already 20180505 23:13:21<+discordbot> drake is UP mostly because of that stupid armor and dodge rate 20180505 23:13:28<+discordbot> ... am I doing 0-9? 20180505 23:13:32<+discordbot> either is the worst, but 20180505 23:13:40<+discordbot> when your drake unit combine the both 20180505 23:13:44<+discordbot> then its terrible 20180505 23:14:13<+discordbot> I don't like drakes either, but I know I'm biased in that regard 20180505 23:14:32<+discordbot> currently the pvp community would mostly like to agree with (since there is not new strat or balance changes these years): 20180505 23:14:38<+discordbot> 1. undead vs knalgan 20180505 23:14:45<+discordbot> knalgan OP 20180505 23:14:50<+discordbot> 2. undead vs human 20180505 23:14:55<+discordbot> undead slightly OP 20180505 23:15:01<+discordbot> 3. human vs elf 20180505 23:15:05<+discordbot> human slightly UP 20180505 23:15:16<+discordbot> 4. elf vs drake 20180505 23:15:22<+discordbot> elf slightly UP 20180505 23:15:22<+discordbot> mean of mean is 4.4989116000000005 and the standard deviation of the standard deviation is 0.12771012808082122 20180505 23:15:40<+discordbot> 5. undead vs elf 20180505 23:15:45<+discordbot> elf maybe OP 20180505 23:15:49<+discordbot> mean of mean is actually just mean of the base for the record 20180505 23:16:38<+discordbot> the solution I tried really hard only to fail to figure out the wesnoth balance dillema 20180505 23:16:49<+discordbot> I found you change one particular unit 20180505 23:16:57<+discordbot> all other 12 match ups get a hell of changes 20180505 23:17:02<+discordbot> ok, I just added 50 to all sums because I'm lazy 20180505 23:17:06<+discordbot> ah, yeah, right 20180505 23:17:29<+discordbot> maybe drakes should enjoy a 50% dodge rate in villages 20180505 23:17:39<+discordbot> it's 1:17 AM what am I even doing here 20180505 23:18:47<+discordbot> anyway, if you had 100 rolls of 1 to 10, their expected sum is 500 (obvious) 20180505 23:19:14<+discordbot> if you're unlucky (5% of the time) your sum will be only ~453 20180505 23:19:32<+discordbot> or below 20180505 23:19:40<+discordbot> if you're super unlucky (1% of the time) your sum will be only 432 or below 20180505 23:20:16<+discordbot> if you're lucky (5% of the time) your sum will be 547 or above, if you're super lucky (1% of the time) it will be 566 or above 20180505 23:20:35<+discordbot> 50% of the time it will be between 481-519 20180505 23:21:15<+discordbot> so idk, mayyyybe a cloned pool of rngs would make a noticeable difference 20180505 23:22:03<+discordbot> I don't even know how to estimate how many hit/miss rolls there are in an average game 20180505 23:22:20<+discordbot> any ideas? 20180505 23:22:27-!- Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20180505 23:24:03<+discordbot> 10 000 sums of 100 0-10 rolls 20180505 23:24:03<+discordbot> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/231976805987385345/442466534091390976/rolls.ods 20180505 23:24:17<+discordbot> (added the spreadsheet with data I used) 20180505 23:25:35<+discordbot> I mean, you could get a rough ballpark by taking the number of units made and multiplying by the number of combats? 20180505 23:25:43<+discordbot> Times like 2.5 or something 20180505 23:25:43<+discordbot> to bad it just says #NAME? for =com.microsoft.percentile.inc(A$1:A$10000;0,01) 20180505 23:25:52<+discordbot> ... 20180505 23:26:01<+discordbot> well, there goes the portability 20180505 23:26:28<+discordbot> replace the com.microsoft... part with percentile.inc 20180505 23:26:42<+discordbot> I mean just remove the com.microsoft part 20180505 23:26:50<+discordbot> and it should work 20180505 23:26:53<+discordbot> nope, doenst help 20180505 23:27:16<+discordbot> well, these are the results then, you'll have to take my word for it 20180505 23:27:35<+discordbot> 432 453 481 500 519 547 566 20180505 23:28:08<+discordbot> or find out how percentiles are called in your version of excel/libre office/open office/whatever 20180505 23:29:30<+discordbot> excalibre office 20180505 23:29:58<+discordbot> open office isn't maintained anymore though, I don't think 20180505 23:30:52<+discordbot> oh ok 20180505 23:31:01<+discordbot> probably won't be missed 20180505 23:32:44<+discordbot> IIRC it ended up in a situation with libre office and its license where libre office could use open office's code, but not vice versa. plus a lot of people jumped ship during the time oracle was in control of it. 20180505 23:33:39<+discordbot> yep, that's what I meant, i.e. the oracle part 20180505 23:33:57<+discordbot> sick branch died, healthy branch still alive 20180505 23:34:02<+discordbot> nothing to worry about 20180505 23:35:01<+discordbot> I mean Oracle DB is mostly cool 20180505 23:35:16<+discordbot> Java, well, they didn't screw it up very badly by taking it over 20180505 23:35:31<+discordbot> but I just wish they didn't do anything else in IT 20180505 23:36:07<+discordbot> heh 20180505 23:37:09<+discordbot> seriously every single smaller Oracle product I've seen so far is shit and just causes trouble 20180505 23:37:40<+discordbot> i found the name of the function and i got the same numbers as you wrote 20180505 23:38:13<+discordbot> yay 20180505 23:38:17<+discordbot> How many rolls would there be in an average match? 20180505 23:38:31<+discordbot> 100 is not a huge number 20180505 23:38:47<+discordbot> you can probably treat each separate attack as a roll 20180505 23:38:49<+discordbot> I assume the hit/miss rolls are what matters 20180505 23:39:00<+discordbot> e.g. 5-4 attack would be 4 rolls 20180505 23:39:12<+discordbot> yep, exactly what Yumi says 20180505 23:39:28<+discordbot> except she's a small elvish priest, so 4-2 in her case 20180505 23:39:42<+discordbot> xD 20180505 23:40:13<+discordbot> maybe it would be interesting if there was a way to know the deviation of the rolls in the statistics of a match 20180505 23:40:37<+discordbot> actually I am a being of unimaginable power 20180505 23:40:43<+discordbot> πŸ˜‚ 20180505 23:41:19<+discordbot> like most of your power resides in an unknown and incomprehensible dimension? 20180505 23:41:50<+discordbot> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/231976805987385345/442471011812900864/unknown.png 20180505 23:41:56<+discordbot> look at that ranged attack 20180505 23:42:01<+discordbot> cmon 20180505 23:42:08<+discordbot> that wildly op 20180505 23:42:12<+discordbot> wait what 20180505 23:42:15<+discordbot> you 20180505 23:42:18<+discordbot> you did 20180505 23:42:21<+discordbot> you did 9.11?! 20180505 23:42:37<+discordbot> it says right at the top left corner! 20180505 23:42:38<+discordbot> wha 20180505 23:42:42<+discordbot> busted! 20180505 23:42:57<+discordbot> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/231976805987385345/442471291308736522/unknown.png 20180505 23:42:58<+discordbot> that's the hex she's on 20180505 23:43:05<+discordbot> ik ik 20180505 23:43:12<+discordbot> >_> 20180505 23:43:13<+discordbot> but... coincidence? 20180505 23:43:16<+discordbot> 0x9? 20180505 23:43:30<+discordbot> I get that question so much 20180505 23:43:36<+discordbot> it does 5 dmg from its ability 20180505 23:43:51<+discordbot> regardless of resists or ToD 20180505 23:44:43<+discordbot> damn my first thought was '9' interpreted as a hexadecimal ;d 20180505 23:44:50<+discordbot> (because of 0x) 20180505 23:45:10<+discordbot> πŸ€” 20180505 23:45:41<+discordbot> (speaking of RNG, that map is randomly generated) 20180505 23:47:47<+discordbot> I wonder if you could easily get the number of attacks from a replay file 20180505 23:56:39<+discordbot> got it 20180505 23:56:40<+discordbot> I think 20180505 23:58:42<+discordbot> I think you'll get the number of performed attacks by counting the damage= lines in the replay file --- Log closed Sun May 06 00:00:05 2018