--- Log opened Mon May 21 00:00:30 2018
20180521 00:01:21<+discordbot> <Pentarctagon> I mean, unless you're using the Profile build, there shouldn't be any -pg flags anywhere in the first place.
20180521 00:01:31< Catoptromancy> interesting
20180521 00:01:48< Catoptromancy> CMAKE_CXX_FLAGS_PROFILE          -pg
20180521 00:01:48< Catoptromancy>  CMAKE_C_FLAGS_PROFILE            -pg
20180521 00:01:56< Catoptromancy> those were like that by default
20180521 00:02:47<+discordbot> <Pentarctagon> unless you're setting CMAKE_BUILD_TYPE=Profile, those shouldn't be used though.
20180521 00:03:16< Catoptromancy> build type was release, but also had the flags with -pg
20180521 00:07:08<+discordbot> <Pentarctagon> I've never seen flags get mixed up between build types.
20180521 00:09:07< Catoptromancy> i am not entirely sure about what im doing
20180521 00:09:41< Catoptromancy> mkdir 1, cd 1, ccmake ..   to bring up that menu
20180521 00:12:58< Catoptromancy> maybe they were just general flags, and werent actually used
20180521 00:14:26< Catoptromancy> theres a  wesnoth-sdl  in the Makefile
20180521 00:14:30< Catoptromancy> sounds fast heh
20180521 00:14:55<+discordbot> <Pentarctagon> doesn't even use ccmake
20180521 00:15:12< Catoptromancy> ccmake is just a cmake interface
20180521 00:15:45< Catoptromancy> it was first thing I saw when googling how to check cmake options heh
20180521 00:17:56<+discordbot> <Pentarctagon> the Release build pretty much is just -O3 as far as optimization goes.
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20180521 00:50:39<+discordbot> <sevu> Catoptromancy you can also enable openmp, but the gain will be marginal
20180521 00:56:51< Catoptromancy> any marginal gain would be good
20180521 00:57:42< Catoptromancy> or bisect
20180521 00:57:46< Catoptromancy> err
20180521 00:58:00< Catoptromancy> i mean read the changelog or bisect
20180521 00:58:09< Catoptromancy> to figure out where wesnoth gets slow
20180521 00:59:45< Catoptromancy> sdl2, but other programs that have upgraded didnt have such a drastic affect
20180521 01:01:55< Catoptromancy> 1.12.6 could run in a terminal at 640x480, on 400mhz
20180521 01:06:27< Catoptromancy> model name      : Intel(R) Pentium(R) D CPU 3.00GHz
20180521 01:06:37< Catoptromancy> can barely run 1.14 at lowest possible settings
20180521 01:06:51< Catoptromancy> with  default build command at least
20180521 01:09:54<+discordbot> <sevu> As for custom flags (I do not know how that was called for cmake, but there exists an option), you can add -D_FORTIFY_SOURCE=2
20180521 01:10:33< Catoptromancy> $make -D_FORTIFY_SOURCE=2  ?
20180521 01:11:06<+discordbot> <sevu> no, as wesnoth specific option in (c)cmake
20180521 01:12:13<+discordbot> <sevu> CXX_FLAGS_USER
20180521 01:13:30< Catoptromancy> nice, added
20180521 01:13:37< Catoptromancy> after this build, will try that
20180521 01:20:22<+discordbot> <sevu> wesnoth uses already -O3 you can use, -Ofast in that cmake variable as well, it will overwrite -O3. However, this enables -fast-math, I do not know what problems come with -fast-math, at least  we have a compiler test for it which will fail. I considered the other options enabled by -Ofast not worthy it when I looked into it.
20180521 02:19:54<+discordbot> <Crimson_Conure> Important quote OwO: Once you understand something you cannot hate it.
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20180521 02:20:03<+discordbot> <Crimson_Conure> ;)
20180521 02:45:15<+discordbot> <Pentarctagon> OpenMP I would not enabled.  It's actually been dropped/will be dropped from 1.15 due to nobody maintaining it.
20180521 02:45:20<+discordbot> <Pentarctagon> *enable
20180521 02:46:08<+discordbot> <Pentarctagon> -Ofast is -O3, but allows using some less precise math.
20180521 02:46:45<+discordbot> <jyrkive> More specifically, it allows mathematical optimizations which aren't fully standards compliant.
20180521 02:47:06<+discordbot> <jyrkive> For example, expanding the floating-point multiplication 0*x to just 0.
20180521 02:47:20<+discordbot> <jyrkive> (It's supposed to yield NaN if x is NaN.)
20180521 02:49:14<+discordbot> <Pentarctagon> yeah.  from the GCC optimizations page, it says "It also enables optimizations that are not valid for all standard-compliant programs."  So I've never used it.
20180521 02:51:31<+discordbot> <Pentarctagon> I'd suggest: cmake . -DCMAKE_BUILD_TYPE=Release -DARCH=native -DENABLE_LTO=yes -DLTO_JOBS=<#> && make -j <#>
20180521 02:52:11<+discordbot> <Pentarctagon> anything beyond that isn't quite safe (Ofast) or very time consuming to set up (ie: PGO)
20180521 02:52:34<+discordbot> <jyrkive> AFAIK, almost no one knowingly relies on stuff that -Ofast breaks. In normal code, NaNs aren't supposed to pop up anywhere.
20180521 02:55:42<+discordbot> <Pentarctagon> There is a test cmake/scons does for IEEE 754 conformance, so I've been more suspicious about using it with wesnoth than not.
20180521 02:56:07<+discordbot> <Pentarctagon> since I assume that test is there for a reason
20180521 02:56:55<+discordbot> <jyrkive> I added that test because iceiceice asked for it.
20180521 02:57:40<+discordbot> <Vultraz> weren't you going t add a static_assert for that?
20180521 02:57:47<+discordbot> <jyrkive> Specifically, it's here because our RNG assumes that floats are in the IEEE 754 format, for the purpose of generating random floats.
20180521 02:58:08<+discordbot> <jyrkive> -Ofast isn't going to break that code.
20180521 02:58:29<+discordbot> <jyrkive> @Vultraz It's such low priority that I outright forgot it.
20180521 02:58:42<+discordbot> <Vultraz> should I add it?
20180521 02:58:49<+discordbot> <jyrkive> Sure, go ahead.
20180521 02:58:56<+discordbot> <Vultraz> to random.cpp?
20180521 02:59:03<+discordbot> <Pentarctagon> alright. -ffast-math says "it can result in incorrect output for programs that depend on an exact implementation of IEEE or ISO rules/specifications for math functions", so that was my thought on that.
20180521 02:59:04<+discordbot> <jyrkive> Yes.
20180521 02:59:07< Catoptromancy> -DLTO_JOBS=#?
20180521 02:59:18< Catoptromancy> do I need to supply a number
20180521 02:59:33<+discordbot> <jyrkive> The only thing the RNG depends on is the correct bit representation.
20180521 03:00:38<+discordbot> <Pentarctagon> Catoptromancy: GCC's LTO implementation requires providing a number of threads to use.  You can not provide it, and it'll default to 1, and the build'll just take longer.
20180521 03:01:55<+discordbot> <Pentarctagon> the correct number depend on your CPU, and how responsive you want everything else to be while it's building.
20180521 03:03:36< Catoptromancy> https://i.imgur.com/7mKee9D.png
20180521 03:04:40< Catoptromancy> ah theres LTO off switch too
20180521 03:04:53< Catoptromancy> turned that on
20180521 03:05:07<+discordbot> <Pentarctagon> CXX_FLAGS_USER is for the actual compiler options
20180521 03:05:25< Catoptromancy> i am not entirely sure on anything I am doing
20180521 03:05:41<+discordbot> <Pentarctagon> so, -march=native, rather than -DARCH=native
20180521 03:06:03< Catoptromancy> march in caps?
20180521 03:06:18<+discordbot> <Pentarctagon> like I said, I don't even use ccmake, so I'm not familiar with this either 😛
20180521 03:06:37< Catoptromancy> is there something better?
20180521 03:07:34< Catoptromancy> i know autotools pretty decent, but cmake throws me off
20180521 03:07:47<+discordbot> <Pentarctagon> open a terminal in wesnoth's directory, and copy/paste in the command I gave earlier
20180521 03:07:49<+discordbot> <Pentarctagon> cmake . -DCMAKE_BUILD_TYPE=Release -DARCH=native -DENABLE_LTO=yes -DLTO_JOBS=<#> && make -j <#>
20180521 03:07:59<+discordbot> <Pentarctagon> except replace <#> with an actual number
20180521 03:09:30< Catoptromancy> got that running
20180521 03:09:36< Catoptromancy> will take quite awhile
20180521 03:11:51<+discordbot> <Pentarctagon> yup
20180521 03:14:23<+discordbot> <Pentarctagon> there's also scons you can use, rather than cmake
20180521 03:14:57<+discordbot> <Pentarctagon> of the two, it's the one I prefer, at least
20180521 03:15:15<+discordbot> <Pentarctagon> there was autotools support at one point, but it was removed some time ago
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20180521 05:25:28<+discordbot> <Lupin> I can't help wondering how is NR a mainline campaign. The design looks bad.
20180521 05:25:41<+discordbot> <Lupin> You literally need to kill 1000 enemies to finish the campaign.
20180521 05:28:18<+discordbot> <Yumi> well, some people like the large scale battles 🤷
20180521 05:30:35<+discordbot> <Lupin> It looks a bad idea when you have to control units one by one. Very energy draining.
20180521 05:31:06<+discordbot> <Lupin> I still remember the day I spent 8 hours on the last scenario of tHoT. Don't know why I sticked to 3 times the animate speed the whole time.
20180521 05:31:20<+discordbot> <Yumi> incidentally I just rewrote that scenario
20180521 05:31:48<+discordbot> <Lupin> That's nice.
20180521 05:32:39<+discordbot> <Yumi> yeah I don't know about NR
20180521 05:32:50<+discordbot> <Yumi> there are definitely plans to touch it, but how much remains to be seen
20180521 05:34:52<+discordbot> <Lupin> That sounds like far far future.
20180521 05:35:53<+discordbot> <Lupin> It's incredible how an old game like Wesnoth are still seeing overhauls like this.
20180521 05:37:17<+discordbot> <Yumi> well, with every new campaign addition or even rewrite, it's basically a new story for players to go through
20180521 05:37:22<+discordbot> <Yumi> add-ons included
20180521 05:37:52<+discordbot> <Yumi> so there's a very large amount of content
20180521 05:38:05<+discordbot> <Yumi> overhaul or not, if you like the game, there's enough to last a loooong time
20180521 05:57:41<+discordbot> <Crimson_Conure> I just like easy campaigns that have a very meaningful storyline
20180521 05:59:24<+discordbot> <Yumi> why easy?
20180521 05:59:53<+discordbot> <Yumi> somehow you struck me as the type to like a challenge :O, maybe I was wrong
20180521 06:00:24<+discordbot> <Crimson_Conure> I like challenge
20180521 06:00:40<+discordbot> <Crimson_Conure> but if its a campaign
20180521 06:00:53<+discordbot> <Crimson_Conure> then i care more about the story and i like it easy in that case so that i can get on with the story and progress faster
20180521 06:00:58<+discordbot> <Crimson_Conure> but well hard is also really nice if its short
20180521 06:01:08<+discordbot> <Crimson_Conure> for example some wesnoth tactics that inky made
20180521 06:01:23<+discordbot> <Yumi> okay that makes sense
20180521 06:01:27<+discordbot> <Crimson_Conure> <3
20180521 06:03:26<+discordbot> <Crimson_Conure> I like stories that have philosophical value to life
20180521 06:05:13<+discordbot> <Yumi> A New Order comes to mind for that
20180521 06:05:47<+discordbot> <Crimson_Conure> Thank you for the recommendation! OwO
20180521 06:06:06<+discordbot> <Yumi> it's not ported to 1.14 yet though :/
20180521 06:06:12<+discordbot> <Crimson_Conure> aww
20180521 06:07:29<+discordbot> <Crimson_Conure> this is also the reason I loved Descent into Darkness, I felt like it had a sense of philosophy in a way
20180521 06:07:53<+discordbot> <Visage> I can say I've definitely been put off by campaigns I was enjoying the story of, but disliked the scenarios/difficulty :P
20180521 06:07:54<+discordbot> <Crimson_Conure> about how "Oh, we just destroy and rebuild civilizations, the way it has always been!" versus the new innovation of rising the dead to solve problems and fight nature in an interesting way
20180521 06:08:42<+discordbot> <Yumi> ... I suppose this merits a second look at the difficulty in my campaign
20180521 06:08:55<+discordbot> <Yumi> rather, a tenth look 😖
20180521 06:09:53<+discordbot> <Yumi> but actually several of the wesnoth campaigns have interesting elements to them
20180521 06:09:57<+discordbot> <Yumi> mainline I mean
20180521 06:10:39<+discordbot> <Crimson_Conure> I like Liberty and I admire the fact that the author is a really good writer that didn't use much of the recommended campaign writing structure
20180521 06:11:11<+discordbot> <Yumi> huh, I didn't even know there was a reocmmended writing methodology
20180521 06:12:11<+discordbot> <Crimson_Conure> yeah they recommend it to people that arent like super amazing English writers, like a step by step process to writing good stuff. Wonder if I can find it
20180521 06:12:28<+discordbot> <Yumi> I don't think you can really have a formulaic method to writing good stories...
20180521 06:12:40<+discordbot> <Crimson_Conure> Yeah it was something like that, but it was also very open ended
20180521 06:13:58<+discordbot> <Yumi> storywriting in wesnoth is a little tricky because you don't have the usual avenues of narration compared to prose or even poetry
20180521 06:14:17<+discordbot> <Crimson_Conure> fair enough
20180521 06:14:20<+discordbot> <Yumi> the most accessible part, and often the majority is dialogue
20180521 06:14:59<+discordbot> <Yumi> even character thoughts are usually given directly in first person, not in third person
20180521 06:15:59<+discordbot> <Crimson_Conure> Ah I found it I think, but let me skim more first
20180521 06:16:03<+discordbot> <Crimson_Conure> https://wiki.wesnoth.org/BuildingCampaigns
20180521 06:17:06<+discordbot> <Crimson_Conure> actually that might have not been it, it mentioned something about how 'Generally speaking it is recommended to consider these guidelines when writing a a story, but if you're an exceptionally good writer (like the author of Liberty) then you don't have to follow any of this'
20180521 06:17:08<+discordbot> <Crimson_Conure> something like that
20180521 06:19:05<+discordbot> <Yumi> hmmm
20180521 06:19:19<+discordbot> <Yumi> was Liberty really that good?
20180521 06:19:23<+discordbot> <Yumi> maybe I should replay it then
20180521 06:19:38<+discordbot> <Crimson_Conure> idk
20180521 06:20:11<+discordbot> <Crimson_Conure> I think I remember it being on the easier side though
20180521 06:24:51<+discordbot> <Crimson_Conure> by the way
20180521 06:24:59<+discordbot> <Crimson_Conure> do you know of any abandoned mainline campaigns? :o
20180521 06:25:11<+discordbot> <Crimson_Conure> like campaigns that once existed but got taken off or merged or osmething
20180521 06:25:29<+discordbot> <Yumi> uhmmmmmmmmmmm
20180521 06:25:40<+discordbot> <Yumi> maybe the dark hordes, I forgot if that was supposed to be mainline or not
20180521 06:26:00<+discordbot> <Yumi> don't know of any others
20180521 06:26:27<+discordbot> <Crimson_Conure> ah okay
20180521 06:27:08<+discordbot> <Yumi> Invasion from the Unknown was considered for mainline before, but is no longer the case
20180521 06:27:12<+discordbot> <Yumi> that is*
20180521 06:27:18<+discordbot> <Crimson_Conure> Ah cool
20180521 06:29:57<+discordbot> <Yumi> although it's being ported to 1.14 so there's that
20180521 06:31:14<+discordbot> <Yumi> you'd probably like IftU and AtS
20180521 06:49:10<+discordbot> <Crimson_Conure> Yeah I played some of IftU, still havent finished it but I hope to
20180521 06:49:22<+discordbot> <Crimson_Conure> I love spectres so much, my favorite lvl 3 unit in terms of appearance :p
20180521 06:51:23<+discordbot> <TBW> I recently got back to Wesnoth; but i never got past the assault in the Chaos capital from IFTU.. or was it the sequel
20180521 06:54:24<+discordbot> <TBW> its a brave new world really, so many new animations, and Colloseum 3p now has shifting spawn points
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20180521 11:15:37<+discordbot> <VYNLT> it was from IFTU, the assault on the Chaos Capital
20180521 11:15:43<+discordbot> <VYNLT> and yeah, i understand, i never got past it either
20180521 11:16:04<+discordbot> <VYNLT> the demons were hard to kill because i lost all of my Necromancers and Liches to the fuckin Shaxtals in that wasteland scenario (forgot the name of it)
20180521 11:16:54<+discordbot> <VYNLT> and considering that scenario DOES have Shaxtals on top of 4 demon factions AND another demon faction that attacks you FROM BEHIND and close to your base...well, youre fucked pretty much
20180521 11:16:56<+discordbot> <Vultraz> it is beatable
20180521 11:17:03<+discordbot> <VYNLT> yeah, but you need a lot of good units
20180521 11:17:14<+discordbot> <VYNLT> you cant use Dark Adepts because you lose the ability to train them a few missions prior
20180521 11:17:23<+discordbot> <Vultraz> i mean, it's the enemy capital
20180521 11:17:26<+discordbot> <VYNLT> dwarves aren't good enough, at least from my own experience, plus they're far away from you
20180521 11:17:27<+discordbot> <Vultraz> can't be easy 😛
20180521 11:17:38<+discordbot> <Vultraz> The dwarves are meant to be distractions
20180521 11:17:42<+discordbot> <VYNLT> yea, but for me at least its litterally impossible because the goddamn Shaxtals killed my necros lol
20180521 11:18:23<+discordbot> <VYNLT> not even Malin is enough to hold out against that many demons
20180521 11:19:08<+discordbot> <VYNLT> i prefer to rely on mage units regarding undead since they deal the most damage to me, skeletons do become Draugr and Death Knights (and i had a few at the time), but yeah, overall not enough
20180521 11:19:41<+discordbot> <VYNLT> i always found mage units rather effective against demons and since i lost them all minus Malin (since he's a hero unit that you cant lose otherwise you fail the scenario) who isnt enough despite him being a powerful unit (Ancient Lich)
20180521 11:56:05<+discordbot> <SsIraS> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/231976805987385345/448091603324895232/unknown.png
20180521 12:13:51<+discordbot> <VYNLT> lol
20180521 12:14:24<+discordbot> <VYNLT> i need to make a wesnoth meme sometime
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20180521 13:57:21< hk238> hi
20180521 14:11:47< hk238> when defining a chance to hit tag weapon special what do I write to apply_to= to make to apply to the opponent? opponent?
20180521 14:13:14<+discordbot> <jyrkive> Yes, "opponent" is correct.
20180521 14:13:59< hk238> thx
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20180521 14:17:59<+discordbot> <Crimson_Conure> lol I feel like SSIraS is going to raise a real life family based on battle for wesnoth references
20180521 14:18:06<+discordbot> <Crimson_Conure> 😊
20180521 14:22:23<+discordbot> <Crimson_Conure> "ok kids do you want to learn about my family tree?" kids: "Yah!" SSIraS: "my father, my biological father, is Dave. His name is Dave like Dave White from Wesnoth. He grew up in Texas kind of near the grand canyon, sort of similar to the 'Glass Desert' from my custom Battle for Wesnoth campign"
20180521 14:23:32<+discordbot> <Crimson_Conure> Point is that SSIraS is totally indulged in wesnoth culture and it is absolutely sweet
20180521 14:24:02< hk238> hmm could I make a weapon special slow that only applies when it's a backstab?
20180521 14:24:31< hk238> I was thinking about writing "backstab=yes" to a special with [slow] tag, but I think that probably doesn't work .. What do you think? :o
20180521 14:25:06< hk238> oh wait this WML reference guide talks about filtering opponent
20180521 14:25:50<+discordbot> <Crimson_Conure> Thats a really cool and interesting idea
20180521 14:25:57<+discordbot> <Crimson_Conure> innovative for sure =)
20180521 14:28:56< hk238> I was thinking Elvish thieves would have a small mace and a short sword, and they could choose between backstabbing with the sword, or with the mace.. the mace attack would deal no extra damage, but would slow the opponent instead, but only if the backstab condition is met
20180521 14:28:56<+discordbot> <Vazl> Can you link that WML reference guide?
20180521 14:29:12< hk238> https://wiki.wesnoth.org/AbilitiesWML#The_.5Babilities.5D_tag
20180521 14:29:16<+discordbot> <Vazl> TY 😃
20180521 14:29:51< hk238> the mace would be relatively inefficient and trying to do the slow would be risky, I was thinking it would be 6-1 impact with the ability, called "pummel" and 5-2 blade with a regular backstab
20180521 14:31:22< celticminstrel> It likely would work.
20180521 14:31:39< celticminstrel> But filtering opponent is the recommended method.
20180521 14:32:27< hk238> how would I do that? I'd filter opponent, filter adjacent, but how do I get the direction the opponent is in from the attacker, and what tag would I use? :o
20180521 14:32:46< celticminstrel> $this_unit.facing
20180521 14:33:02< celticminstrel> Might need to reverse it: -$this_unit.facing
20180521 14:33:12< celticminstrel> Or it might be $other_unit.facing, I forget.
20180521 14:33:46< celticminstrel> Of course, you could also copy the implementation of core backstab (which uses formula instead).
20180521 14:34:16<+discordbot> <Vazl> Yeah I find those things tricky, too. I need to look into tags and what not more in depths, to figure out what kind of fun abilities and traits I can actually realize
20180521 14:34:34< hk238> the abilitiesWML says the implementation uses filters for versions 1.13 or later, but I'm still using 1.12 
20180521 14:34:35<+discordbot> <Vazl> Been so long since I made content and coded. Rusty 😄
20180521 14:34:50< celticminstrel> Why are you using 1.12? o.o
20180521 14:34:54<+discordbot> <Vazl> Yeah 😮
20180521 14:35:00< celticminstrel> Use 1.14.
20180521 14:35:22< hk238> I should probably switch.. is the 1.14 available in debian stretch repository already? :o I just got wesnoth from the repo and the version was 1.12
20180521 14:35:28< celticminstrel> I dunno.
20180521 14:35:41< celticminstrel> It may not be in some of the Linux repos.
20180521 14:36:10< hk238> I guess I could try and come around to compiling it but it seems like troublesome
20180521 14:37:12<+discordbot> <sevu> It's not in the backports. But have a look here if you want to compile, shouldn't be difficult with that https://wiki.wesnoth.org/CompilingWesnoth#Linux_Tips_to_Easily_Gather_Dependencies
20180521 14:38:55< hk238> okay thanks I'll try installing those dependencies if I get around to trying the compile option
20180521 14:40:14< hk238> if $this_unit was referring to the attacker, what would refer to the defender?
20180521 14:40:28< celticminstrel> $other_unit
20180521 14:40:38< hk238> okay :o
20180521 14:40:59< celticminstrel> I don't remember which refers to which.
20180521 14:41:14< celticminstrel> Also I think they're swapped in [filter_adjacent].
20180521 14:41:24< celticminstrel> Compared to the other possible filters.
20180521 14:41:29< hk238> so if I'm doing the backstab filter [filter_opponent][filter_adjacent]adjacent=$this_unit.facing .. what do I need to apply here to make it filter for the opponents opponent? 
20180521 14:41:47< hk238> hm oh there's that kind of possibility
20180521 14:43:04< celticminstrel> This is how backstab was implemented on 1.13.x for awhile: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/c761a80bd53a9537e09a7008ad9c17031e7604ca#diff-d28fc9273503adf83c6c4e99a0e46a96R406
20180521 14:44:11< hk238> oh thanks 
20180521 14:44:27< hk238> oh so it is $other_unit too :o
20180521 14:44:34<+discordbot> <SsIraS> I’ve got a major in Wesnoth mainline
20180521 14:44:47<+discordbot> <SsIraS> And I’m studying add-ons
20180521 14:46:14< hk238> it seems there's only 1 ability to go (assuming these work)
20180521 14:46:43< hk238> which is probably the most complicated one "trip" the idea is that it's a weapon special, and the defender loses 1 movement point at the beginning of the next turn 
20180521 14:46:59< hk238> if there's a succesful hit :o
20180521 14:47:08< celticminstrel> That one probably needs to be event-based.
20180521 14:47:22< celticminstrel> You could look at how the stun weapon special is implemented, I believe that would be similar to what you want.
20180521 14:47:38< celticminstrel> It can be found in Dead Water and Under the Burning Suns.
20180521 14:48:22< hk238> yeah I could look into it, there's also some other abilities I'm looking into which might be similar
20180521 14:48:27< celticminstrel> (Stun negates the unit's zone of control, but the basic method could be used to apply any effect.)
20180521 14:50:52< hk238> right there's this ability called paralysis I'm looking into it which already does almost the same
20180521 14:53:23< hk238> I guess that shouldn't apply to ghosts
20180521 14:53:33< hk238> it seems like it's hard to trip ghosts
20180521 14:53:56< celticminstrel>  Indeed.
20180521 14:54:30< hk238> but how do I filter for ghosts?
20180521 14:54:35< hk238> by unit id?
20180521 14:55:06< celticminstrel> I think the only way is by unit type. :/
20180521 14:55:35< celticminstrel> Maybe you could come up with something that detects the undead trait and some other characteristics of ghosts, though.
20180521 14:55:42< celticminstrel> Like resistances or something.
20180521 14:55:50< celticminstrel> But that could give false positives.
20180521 14:56:01< Ravana_> not resistance, movement cost on unwalkable
20180521 14:56:29< celticminstrel> Ah, that might be a good way, yeah (if filters can test that).
20180521 14:56:50< celticminstrel> Only reason to do that is that if some addon adds a different type of ghost, it would hopefully still match.
20180521 14:59:34< hk238> {MODIFY_UNIT x,y=$tripped_units[$i].x,$tripped_units[$i].y moves sub 1}
20180521 14:59:48< hk238> does that seem correct? Or can you use modify_unit with "sub" ?
20180521 15:00:46< celticminstrel> Pffft.
20180521 15:00:49< celticminstrel> No that won't work.
20180521 15:01:04< celticminstrel> [modify_unit] also has a $this_unit variable.
20180521 15:01:22< celticminstrel> And $(...) syntax allows you to evaluate a formula.
20180521 15:01:44< celticminstrel> So you could do something like $($this_unit.moves - 1)
20180521 15:01:45< celticminstrel> HOWEVER
20180521 15:02:01< celticminstrel> I'd recommend using [object] instead of [modify_unit] here.
20180521 15:02:49< hk238> I'm basically editing the implementation of another ability that had the quality of setting the movement points to 3
20180521 15:03:17< hk238> but instead of setting them to three I'm trying to subtract one.. what's the difference when using [object] do I need to change lots of things? 
20180521 15:03:30< celticminstrel> Well, using modify_unit means that the effect disappears if the unit levels up. That might not be a problem in this case, though.
20180521 15:03:48< celticminstrel> If using [object], you'd just replace the modify_unit call with the object call.
20180521 15:04:23< hk238> hm
20180521 15:04:46< hk238> so basically I need to replace the part that says " sub 1 " with an experssion that evaluates to one less than the units moves
20180521 15:05:51< hk238> I mean you already said $($this_unit.moves - 1) but I'm not sure if the $this_unit is workign with foreach loop?
20180521 15:06:20< celticminstrel> $this_unit is set by [modify_unit].
20180521 15:06:32< hk238> oh great
20180521 15:07:25< hk238> {MODIFY_UNIT x,y=$tripped_units[$i].x,$tripped_units[$i].y moves $($this_unit.moves - 1) } <-- so basically like that? 
20180521 15:07:39< celticminstrel> Yeah I think that should work.
20180521 15:12:10< hk238> oh I guess that's it for the abilities :D
20180521 15:12:15< hk238> era is almost done
20180521 15:12:17<+discordbot> <Vazl> Would it be possible to make a trait that's only active as long as an adjacent enemy has a certain status effect? 🤔
20180521 15:14:05< hk238> I think that's possible indirectly by making a trait that doesn't do anything, and then creating an event, if what the trait is supposed to dosomething that can be implemented in an event
20180521 15:14:27< hk238> *is
20180521 15:14:39<+discordbot> <Vazl> Ah,yes, that should work
20180521 15:17:05< hk238> "almost done" meaning that nothing has been tested yet, unit files need to be written, no unit has advancement paths designed yet, and no animations are done (well except considering the elvish mage graphics provided by celticminstrel) , and basically everything needs to be tweaked.. and the basic era configuration files are not written yet either
20180521 15:17:23< hk238> and the faction is still missing one unit :D
20180521 15:17:50<+discordbot> <Vazl> Keep it up 😃
20180521 15:17:51< hk238> but it seems like maybe 1 hour of work to make it playable with AMLA advancements
20180521 15:18:05< hk238> :D
20180521 15:18:30< hk238> or possibly forever trying to track bugs
20180521 15:19:00< hk238> trying to be funny here... sorry. : )'
20180521 15:19:48<+discordbot> <Vazl> :3
20180521 15:20:07< celticminstrel> @Vazl, hk238: No need to get that complicated, you can detect status effects in filters.
20180521 15:20:26< celticminstrel> Oh wait...
20180521 15:20:31< celticminstrel> A trait, not an ability.
20180521 15:20:33< celticminstrel> Hmm...
20180521 15:21:40< celticminstrel> Ah, right, [effect] has filters, so I think it should be possible.
20180521 15:21:40< hk238> time to make some more coffee :  )
20180521 15:22:23<+discordbot> <Vazl> Aye, looking over effect tags atm 😃
20180521 15:23:02<+discordbot> <Vazl> .. jamming? What's that? Never seen that before
20180521 15:23:14< celticminstrel> It interferes with vision, I believe.
20180521 15:23:19< celticminstrel> I've never actually tried it.
20180521 15:23:21<+discordbot> <Vazl> Wasn't a tag when I last derped around with this
20180521 15:23:29<+discordbot> <Vazl> Ah yeah new since 1.32.2
20180521 15:23:32< celticminstrel> I think it's new in 1.13.x but I'm not sure.
20180521 15:23:34<+discordbot> <Vazl> *1.13.2
20180521 15:23:40<+discordbot> <Vazl> -nods-
20180521 15:23:49<+discordbot> <Vazl> But there's already a tag for vision 🤔
20180521 15:23:59<+discordbot> <Vazl> That also came in 1.13.2
20180521 15:24:08< hk238> oh that's right I didn't do vision costs in movetypes yet :o
20180521 15:24:09< celticminstrel> Well, vision is vision. Jamming is more like... anti-vision? I think?
20180521 15:24:14< celticminstrel> hk238: No need.
20180521 15:24:29< celticminstrel> Vision costs will be equal to movement costs by default, so unless you want them to be different, you can ignore them.
20180521 15:24:35<+discordbot> <Vazl> Ah
20180521 15:24:48< hk238> right I guess that's good :D
20180521 15:26:06< hk238> got to try and do my morning workout now then continue with the era.. this might be an okay era :D
20180521 15:26:20<+discordbot> <Vazl> Keep working on it; nothing's ever finished 😉
20180521 15:37:57< hk238> oh I forgot dodge ability, the weapon specials are done though.. Although I got another thing I want to implement now :D
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20180521 16:38:20<+discordbot> <SsIraS> top 10 evil things I have done
20180521 16:38:21<+discordbot> <SsIraS> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/231976805987385345/448162629337219073/unknown.png
20180521 16:38:42<+discordbot> <shadowm> Wow.
20180521 16:39:06<+discordbot> <shadowm> Just kidding, it's okay if you don't want to hear the noise we make.
20180521 16:39:12<+discordbot> <SsIraS> k
20180521 16:39:46<+discordbot> <SsIraS> I like reading it, its just that I prefer Discord notifies me about other stuff
20180521 16:40:38<+discordbot> <SsIraS> And tbf Wesnoth is one of the two servers I have unmuted
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20180521 18:05:34<+discordbot> <Crimson_Conure> lol
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20180521 19:02:45<+discordbot> <Vazl> If I want to filter traits in an event, is this how I would do it?  filter     trait=undead     [or]       trait=mechanical     /or       trait=elemental     /or [/filter]
20180521 19:04:07<+discordbot> <shadowm> If you mean to say "the primary unit must not have the undead, mechanical, or elemental traits", then yes.
20180521 19:04:32<+discordbot> <shadowm> Although that can also be written as: [filter]     [not]         trait=undead,mechanical,elemental     [/not] [/filter]
20180521 19:04:39<+discordbot> <shadowm> (Also we have #modding for this.
20180521 19:05:48<+discordbot> <Vazl> Aye, that's what I'm going for 😃 I'll re-write it like you suggested, however. Looks cleaner.  Also, sorry! I'll use that channel! 😅
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20180521 19:18:45< celticminstrel> @Vazl trait=undead,mechanical,elemental should have the same effect and takes less space.
20180521 19:18:59< celticminstrel> Oh wait, that's what shadowm said too. Duh.
20180521 19:19:57< celticminstrel> Personally I'd prefer if people didn't use #modding, unless an IRC-Discord bridge can be set up there (apparently there's #wesnoth-umc-dev on the IRC side that might be appropriate).
20180521 19:22:51<+discordbot> <sevu> @Vazl sounds to me like you are not really interressted in the traits, but in their effects [filter]     [not]         status=undrainable,unpoisonable,unplaguable     [/not] [/filter] (I hope I did it right - this fiter matches units which have not any of the three, It doesn't need to have all three not to be matched by the filter, right? E.g. it would match vampires which are poisonable but unplaguable?)
20180521 19:23:26< celticminstrel> Comma-separated lists in filter are always "must match one of these", yes.
20180521 19:23:30< celticminstrel> ^filters
20180521 19:23:33<+discordbot> <Vazl> Nah, actually after the actual traits 😄 Thanks for your input, however 🙂
20180521 19:25:26< celticminstrel> (Who was in charge of the discordbot again? Loonycyborg?)
20180521 19:25:49<+discordbot> <jyrkive> Yes, he's in charge of the bot.
20180521 19:26:13< loonycyborg> I can link any two channels on two sides if needed
20180521 19:26:29< loonycyborg> last time I linked #wesnoth-de with #german
20180521 19:27:04< celticminstrel> Personally I'd rather not have to join another channel, but Vultraz decided to create #modding, so it'd be nice to be able to follow along with that.
20180521 19:27:23< celticminstrel> Dunno how active it is mind you, might be low priority.
20180521 19:28:23<+discordbot> <jyrkive> It's less active than the other channels, but tends to get at least a couple dozen messages per day.
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20180521 19:53:10<+discordbot> <Vazl> Hmm. The poison status effect shows up as an icon which has a tooltip, when having selected a unit.. but where in the code can I find this tooltip? I can't seem to find it.  "This unit has been poisoned", et cetera. 🤔
20180521 19:57:10< Ravana_> it is in pinned thread
20180521 19:57:49<+discordbot> <Vazl> Hmm?
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20180521 20:08:37< zookeeper> even i can't decipher what that might mean
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20180521 20:13:32< Ravana_> https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=46183
20180521 20:14:29< celticminstrel> That tooltip is probably in src/reports.cpp
20180521 20:14:39< celticminstrel> That is to say, it's baked into the source code, not specified in WML. Probably.
20180521 20:16:20< zookeeper> Ravana_, yeah, i still don't see it.
20180521 20:18:35< Ravana_> that example is named entangled, but poison is just different status, image and tooltip
20180521 20:19:34< celticminstrel> Well, the entangled status effect tooltip is probably also baked into the source code though.
20180521 20:19:50< celticminstrel> Built-in statuses are not implemented with the Lua theme API.
20180521 20:20:33<+discordbot> <Vazl> Aye 👌
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20180521 20:59:30<+discordbot> <knyghtmare> Hello, everyone! I am just dropping by to announce that War of Legends has been ported to 1.14 as of 5 minutes ago! https://github.com/knyghtmare/War_of_Legends/releases/tag/1.1.9
20180521 21:00:03<+discordbot> <knyghtmare> *12 minutes ago
20180521 21:07:09<+discordbot> <knyghtmare> @Vultraz  There is a TC-glitch in the lower part of the Nightgaunt. This was just one of the few ones I found while playing.
20180521 21:07:09<+discordbot> <knyghtmare> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/231976805987385345/448230274661089300/Screen_Shot_2018-05-22_at_03.05.52.png
20180521 21:28:57<+discordbot> <shadowm> Why are you tagging him specifically?
20180521 21:32:24<+discordbot> <knyghtmare> @shadowm Well, the last time I mentioned this issue, he was the first one to respond here so, I mentioned him.
20180521 21:32:58<+discordbot> <shadowm> Yeah, but please don't tag devs unless you know you've got the right one. Vultraz isn't in charge of art.
20180521 21:33:18<+discordbot> <shadowm> It's also much preferable to file bug reports since they don't always have time to tend to things instantly.
20180521 21:34:15<+discordbot> <knyghtmare> Thanks for the reminder. Will file the bug reports next time.
20180521 21:39:27<+discordbot> <ancestral> This just in: Wesnoth is truly the people’s game! https://www.strategygamer.com/articles/best-turn-based-strategy-games/
20180521 21:39:55<+discordbot> <ancestral> (Sounds like a very Marxian thing to say)
20180521 21:42:40<+discordbot> <Yumi> too bad they didn't give wesnoth a review 😞
20180521 21:44:53< zookeeper> "Light enough to run on the most dismal of systems", eh...
20180521 21:45:45<+discordbot> <shadowm> That's quite the contrast with our little tech talk last night isn't it.
20180521 21:46:48<+discordbot> <sapient_n3t> Wesnoth: the People's Game☭
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20180521 22:03:56<+discordbot> <Elegias> Well, it is made on the priciple of community ownership and reposibility to create a common good that is free of charge.
20180521 22:04:15<+discordbot> <Elegias> so, the basic idea is quite socialistic in nature^^
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20180521 22:30:50< hk238> hi
20180521 22:38:27<+discordbot> <Crimson_Conure> KALINKA!!
20180521 22:38:45<+discordbot> <Crimson_Conure> Someday I need to play the accordion on the voice channel here..
20180521 22:39:04<+discordbot> <Crimson_Conure> Lol thats hilarious, The People's Game? xD
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